stock market in free fall...

[CosmicCowboy]

Already broke 10,000 and still headed down. This is gonna get VERY ugly.

[Jimcs50]

Already broke 10,000 and still headed down. This is gonna get VERY ugly.


:depressed


I would jump to my death, but there are no buildings high enough in College Station.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

:depressed


I would jump to my death, but there are no buildings high enough in College Station.
college station, huh.
walk by a sign that reads "Clean Restrooms", then do it.
that should keep you occupied.

[Jimcs50]

college station, huh.
walk by a sign that reads "Clean Restrooms", then do it.
that should keep you occupied.

huh?

[marini martini]

college station, huh.
walk by a sign that reads "Clean Restrooms", then do it.
that should keep you occupied.

:lmao Trying to find a clean restroom in C.S. would prolong your life!!!

[MoSpur]

I think you guys missed the joke and that is even funnier than the joke itself.

[Bigzax]

:depressed


I would jump to my death, but there are no buildings high enough in College Station.



just build a bonfire...:wakeup

[Viva Las Espuelas]

just build a bonfire...:wakeup
nice. i'm sure their architectural program enrollment took a sharp dive after that.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Germany takes hot seat as Europe falls into the abyss

We face extreme danger. Unless there is immediate intervention on every front by all the major powers acting in concert, we risk a disintegration of global finance within days. Nobody will be spared, unless they own gold bars.


Investors will learn today whether the Paulson bail-out - fattened to $850bn (£480bn) by Congress - can begin to halt the death spiral in the credit system. So far, the response looks terrible.
Germany is now in the hot seat. The collapse of a rescue deal for Hypo Real Estate on Saturday threatens a €400bn (£311bn) bankruptcy that nearly matches the Lehman Brothers debacle for sheer scale.
Chancellor Angela Merkel has been forced to pull her head out of the sand, guaranteeing all German savings, a day after she rebuked Ireland for doing much the same thing. Reality intrudes.
During the past week, we have tipped over the edge, into the middle of the abyss. Systemic collapse is in full train. The Netherlands has just rushed through a second, more sweeping nationalisation of Fortis. Ireland and Greece have had to rescue all their banks. Iceland is facing an Argentine denouement.
The US commercial paper market is closed. It shrank $95bn last week, and has lost $208bn in three weeks. The interbank lending market has seized up. There are almost no bids. It is a ghost market. Healthy companies cannot roll over debt. Some will have to sack staff today to stave off default.
As the unflappable Warren Buffett puts it, the credit freeze is “sucking blood” out of the economy. “In my adult lifetime, I don’t think I’ve ever seen people as fearful,” he said.
We are fast approaching the point of no return. The only way out of this calamitous descent is “shock and awe” on a global scale, and even that may not be enough.
Drastic rate cuts would be a good start. Central bankers still paralysed by a misplaced fear of inflation – whether in Europe, Britain, or the US – have become a public menace and should be held to severe account by our democracies. The imminent and massive danger is now self-feeding debt deflation.
The lesson of the 1930s is that any country trying to reflate in isolation will be punished. The crisis will ricochet from one economy to another until every one is crippled. We are seeing it play again in this drama as our leaders fail to rise above their narrow, parochial agendas.
The European Central Bank – which raised rates into the teeth of the crisis in July – has played a shockingly destructive role in this enveloping slump. Its growth predictions this year have been, and still are, delusional. Neglecting its global role, it has vastly complicated the fire-fighting efforts of Washington.
It could have offered “cover” to the US Federal Reserve this spring when Ben Bernanke was forced by events to slash rates to 2pc. It could at least have signalled an end to monetary tightening. That is how an ally ought to behave.
Instead, it stuck maniacally to its Gothic script, with equally unhappy consequences for both sides of the Atlantic, as well as for China, Japan, and India. The euro rocketed yet further, which it turn set off an oil shock as crude metamorphosed into an anti-dollar with leverage.
The ECB policy was self-defeating, even on its own terms. It merely drove headline inflation even higher, while deeper forces of underlying debt deflation pulled the real economies of Germany, Italy, France, and Spain into a recessionary vortex.
Far from offering reassurance, the weekend mini-summit of EU leaders served only to highlight that nobody is in charge of this runaway train. There is still no lender of last resort in euroland. The £12bn stimulus package is risible.
Angela Merkel has revealed her deep limitations. It was she who vetoed French efforts to launch a pan-EU rescue package, suspecting that any lifeboat fund would prove to be Trojan Horse – a way of co-opting German taxpayers into colossal transfers of wealth to Latin Europe.
In that she is right, but it is too late now for dysfunctional EU political games. By demanding that those who caused the damage should pay for it, she crossed the line into caricature, or worse.
Her comments echo word for word the “we’re alright Jack” attitudes of Euro-pols during the first US banking crises in 1930-1931, until the storm hit Europe and the entire cast was swept away by furious electorates, or simply shot. Thankfully, this EU stupidity is at last drawing serious criticism.
“We have to make sure Europe takes its responsibilities, like the US: action must be taken quickly and in a concerted manner,” said IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
As for the US itself, it has not yet exhausted its policy arsenal. It can escalate further up the nuclear ladder. The Fed can cut interest rates from 2pc to zero. If that fails, it can let rip with the mass purchase of US debt.
“The US government has a technology, called a printing press,” said Fed chief Ben Bernanke in November 2002. (His helicopter speech).
In extremis, the Treasury/Fed can swoop into any market to shore up asset prices. They can buy Florida property. They can even buy SUV guzzlers from the car lots in Detroit, and mangle them in scrap yards. As Bernanke put it, the Fed can “expand the menu of assets that it buys.”
There is a devilish catch to this ploy, of course. It assumes that foreign creditors will tolerate such action.
Japan entered its Lost Decade as the world’s top creditor, with a vast pool of household savings to cushion the slump. America starts its purge with net external liabilities of $3 trillion, and a savings rate near zero. Foreigners own over half the US Treasury debt, and two thirds of all Fannie, Freddie, and other US agency bonds.
But the risk of a dollar collapse is one for the distant future. Right now the world faces the opposite problem. There is a wild scramble for dollars as a $10 trillion pyramid of global lending based on dollar balance sheets “delevers” with a vengeance.
This is a “short squeeze” on those who have used the dollar for a vast global carry trade. International banks are facing margin calls on their dollar leverage. It is why the Fed is having to provide $1.25 trillion in dollar liquidity for the entire global system, according to estimates by Brad Setser from the Center for Geoeconomic Studies.
The crisis engulfing Europe, Asia and emerging markets, makes life easier for Washington. The United States is becoming a safe-haven again.
The Fed can now hope to pursue monetary stimulus “a l’outrance” without being slapped down by the currency, debt, and commodity markets. Take comfort where you can.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/3141428/Germany-takes-hot-seat-as-Europe-falls-into-the-abyss.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

well



GO SPURS!!!

[Jimcs50]

I think you guys missed the joke and that is even funnier than the joke itself.

Oh, was that a joke? I think the joke is someone from San Antonio making a comment about the cleanliness of public restrooms.

:lol

[marini martini]

The crisis engulfing Europe, Asia and emerging markets, makes life easier for Washington. The United States is becoming a safe-haven again.

Is this the joke???:dizzy

[SpursWoman]

Maybe we can give Europe & Asia $700 billion, too!

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

It's a shame the markets aren't responding better to the bail out, but my investments in Wooden Arrow Manufacturing Inc. are doing quite well.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

It's a shame the markets aren't responding better to the bail out, but my investments in Wooden Arrow Manufacturing Inc. are doing quite well.
don't forget about the rum makers.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

don't forget about the rum makers.

My investments in that field are extremely short term. :drunk

[clambake]

maybe bin laden will die laughing.

[BacktoBasics]

My investments in that field are extremely short term. :drunk:lmao

[RandomGuy]

[QUOTE=Viva Las Espuelas;2809539
But the risk of a dollar collapse is one for the distant future. Right now the world faces the opposite problem. There is a wild scramble for dollars as a $10 trillion pyramid of global lending based on dollar balance sheets “delevers” with a vengeance.
This is a “short squeeze” on those who have used the dollar for a vast global carry trade. International banks are facing margin calls on their dollar leverage. It is why the Fed is having to provide $1.25 trillion in dollar liquidity for the entire global system, according to estimates by Brad Setser from the Center for Geoeconomic Studies.
[/QUOTE]

By the by this will make oil waaaay cheaper. Economic downturn followed by an appreciating dollar= oil to drop a lot.

If you have the credit and some cash saved up, I hear that automakers are offering some VERY VERY hefty discounts on large trucks and SUVs.

If you need one of those types of vehicles for your business, and can deduct running costs as expenses, this makes for a very good deal.

[Richard Cranium]

buy low, sell high

[nkdlunch]

haha Europe is gonna fall to shit levels of the 1970s.

At this pace, the new world super economies will be Iran, Russia and Venezuela :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Going off the cliff again.

Down 675 @ 9654 and dropping like a rock. This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Going off the cliff again.

Down 675 @ 9654 and dropping like a rock. This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

:depressed

[Cant_Be_Faded]

700 Billion will fix this

[marini martini]

Going off the cliff again.

Down 675 @ 9654 and dropping like a rock. This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Does this mean now I can get a pony??:wow

:lmao

[AlamoSpursFan]

I'm loving the hell out of my decision to sell the day after the first big fall...

Now I need Pepsico to fall into the 40's so I can buy it back with a nice little $30 per share profit...

[RandomGuy]

haha Europe is gonna fall to shit levels of the 1970s.

At this pace, the new world super economies will be Iran, Russia and Venezuela :lol

Iran and Venezuala have been spending like no tomorrow from sky-high oil prices.

A slowdown like this is driving down prices very quickly, and is likely to for a while.

This will put a HUGE crimp in those government's budgets, which are rife with fuel and food subsidies for their poorer citizens.

You will see some serious rioting in both countries if oil falls too much further and starts cutting into their governments' ability to carry those subsidies much farther.

I feel this is a very likely scenario.

[RandomGuy]

Russia for their part is going to be in some serious hurt.

Putin's strong-arming foreign investors has meant that capital is leaving Russia at a VERY fast rate, their stock markets have been taking 15% hits at the times that Europe, US and Asia are taking 7% hits. They have had to halt trading on the Russian exchange.

Couple that with falling oil/gas revenues, and Russia will be in very bad shape indeed.

[phyzik]

We are at 26% unemployment rate with millions homeless with widespread bank failures.

We saw this in the 1930's

It was the great depression.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/news/economy/depression_poll/index.htm

[RandomGuy]

I take that back, the Russian stock market didn't fall 15% today, it fell 19%.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/06/business/EU-Russia-Markets.php?page=1

Russia is sitting on a lot of cash though. That will help them avoid some of the worst shocks for a while, and give them a lot of leeway to help their financial sector.

[CosmicCowboy]

We are at 26% unemployment rate with millions homeless with widespread bank failures.

We saw this in the 1930's

It was the great depression.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/news/economy/depression_poll/index.htm

Are you talking abut the US? Unemployment is at 6%, not 26%.

[CosmicCowboy]

I take that back, the Russian stock market didn't fall 15% today, it fell 19%.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/06/business/EU-Russia-Markets.php?page=1

Russia is sitting on a lot of cash though. That will help them avoid some of the worst shocks for a while, and give them a lot of leeway to help their financial sector.

It was only down 19% because they closed the markets after 10 minutes.

[RandomGuy]

Are you talking abut the US? Unemployment is at 6%, not 26%.

Details, details. What's 20% between friends?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

We are at 26% unemployment rate with millions homeless with widespread bank failures.

We saw this in the 1930's

It was the great depression.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/news/economy/depression_poll/index.htm

how many deserved to be homeless between now and then? and i'm speaking of the idiots that borrowed way above their means.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Russia for their part is going to be in some serious hurt.

Putin's strong-arming foreign investors has meant that capital is leaving Russia at a VERY fast rate, their stock markets have been taking 15% hits at the times that Europe, US and Asia are taking 7% hits. They have had to halt trading on the Russian exchange.

Couple that with falling oil/gas revenues, and Russia will be in very bad shape indeed.
come on cheap oil!!!

[phyzik]

Are you talking abut the US? Unemployment is at 6%, not 26%.

I just looked at the CNN title, it must be a typo then. Still, no one can deny the possibility with the current state of things.

[JoeChalupa]

I really hope the economy doesn't drastically effect any one here at Spurstalk. Or anywhere else for that matter. My 401K took a hit. I just pray that there are no layoffs where I work. I can't really get any cheaper than I already am so cutting corners isn't really an option.

[BacktoBasics]

I really hope the economy doesn't drastically effect any one here at Spurstalk. Or anywhere else for that matter. My 401K took a hit. I just pray that there are no layoffs where I work. I can't really get any cheaper than I already am so cutting corners isn't really an option.

BUT YOU LIVE ABOVE YOUR MEANS!!!!!!!!

Sin,

Viva

[jack sommerset]

We are at 26% unemployment rate with millions homeless with widespread bank failures.

We saw this in the 1930's

It was the great depression.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/06/news/economy/depression_poll/index.htm


The funny thing about this false stat is some dumb fuck probably repeated it like phyzik did. 1 out of 4 people do not have a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lmao

[Anti.Hero]

How can you read that U.S. unemployment is 26% and not automatically think it is a typo :lmao

Inflation rate in 1 more year maybe :lol

[BacktoBasics]

how many deserved to be homeless between now and then? and i'm speaking of the idiots that borrowed way above their means.
I'm going back to this because its typical idiotic Viva talk. Most of those people lost their homes because of a compilation of things. I'm willing to bet that at least half if not more of those foreclosures could have been avoided had inflation from high gas prices not been so drastic and so quick. We aren't talking about just higher prices at the pump either. The average rise in cost of living increased 25-35% for the typical family. Thats the real difference here.

Lets say hypothetically your ARM goes up 300 bucks thats not anything compared to a 5 or 6 hundred dollar rise in the monthly cost of living. That rise happened in less than a year and half before most of these people could find productive ways to restructure their expenses IE paying off debts early to lower the monthly expenses.

I'm not saying stupid people didn't get into stupid messes but the there's more to it than getting a more expensive house. Once again Viva fails to see a larger picture.

[JoeChalupa]

BUT YOU LIVE ABOVE YOUR MEANS!!!!!!!!

Sin,

Viva

:lmao I just spent $200 at H-E-B yesterday!!

[timvp]

Meh, comparatively speaking, the US looks to be in good shape. Plus I'm liking this strong dollar :smokin

[ChumpDumper]

A little bounce back in the last hour. Had to be some bargain hunters.

[CosmicCowboy]

I really hope the economy doesn't drastically effect any one here at Spurstalk. Or anywhere else for that matter. My 401K took a hit. I just pray that there are no layoffs where I work. I can't really get any cheaper than I already am so cutting corners isn't really an option.

If we don't get some liquidity into the worldwide credit markets FAST I expect to see MAJOR layoffs/cutbacks top to bottom in corporate USA and some fundamentally sound companies fail because they can't access capital.

Here in San Antonio Rackspace comes to mind as a company that is especially vulnerable. They didn't get their IPO done in time and if they can't get adequate access to commercial credit lines they will go down in flames fast the way they are burning cash on hand.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Iran and Venezuala have been spending like no tomorrow from sky-high oil prices.

A slowdown like this is driving down prices very quickly, and is likely to for a while.

This will put a HUGE crimp in those government's budgets, which are rife with fuel and food subsidies for their poorer citizens.

You will see some serious rioting in both countries if oil falls too much further and starts cutting into their governments' ability to carry those subsidies much farther.

I feel this is a very likely scenario.

that's just about the only good thing coming out of this. That Chavez isn't going to be able to sell his bullshit anymore

[phyzik]

Rackspace could be in trouble here in San Antonio but depsite that I think the 2 least affected job types will be the I/T and Medical fields.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I'm going back to this because its typical idiotic Viva talk. Most of those people lost their homes because of a compilation of things. I'm willing to bet that at least half if not more of those foreclosures could have been avoided had inflation from high gas prices not been so drastic and so quick. We aren't talking about just higher prices at the pump either. The average rise in cost of living increased 25-35% for the typical family. Thats the real difference here.

Lets say hypothetically your ARM goes up 300 bucks thats not anything compared to a 5 or 6 hundred dollar rise in the monthly cost of living. That rise happened in less than a year and half before most of these people could find productive ways to restructure their expenses IE paying off debts early to lower the monthly expenses.

I'm not saying stupid people didn't get into stupid messes but the there's more to it than getting a more expensive house. Once again Viva fails to see a larger picture.
Well, bun nugget, i was referring to people with $15 an hour jobs in $200,000+ houses. i'm not into splitting hairs here like you blathered about and that was some serious blathering you did.

[JoeChalupa]

I've got a few cousins working at Rackspace. I hope they don't get layed off.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, bun nugget, i was referring to people with $15 an hour jobs in $200,000+ houses.How many of those people are out there?

[ChumpDumper]

Might get back to 10,000 before the bell.

[BacktoBasics]

Well, bun nugget, i was referring to people with $15 an hour jobs in $200,000+ houses. i'm not into splitting hairs here like you blathered about and that was some serious blathering you did.It was blathering to you because of you inability to rationally understand anything related to common sense. Its not splitting hairs its defining what really happened which clearly you have no concept of.

You didn't stipulate what you were talking about and at 15 an hour they would have only qualified for a 120k house under the past guidelines. Even with a radical ARM you could only push that to maybe 140k.

Your a dumbass and always will be.

[BacktoBasics]

How many of those people are out there?
at that figure? Probably none.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

How many of those people are out there?
you go amaze yourself with that answer.

[ChumpDumper]

you go amaze yourself with that answer.B2B just said it was zero.

I don't find that amazing. I expected it.

[BacktoBasics]

At 140k with a low low low ARM starting at 3.99 which isn't that likely you're looking at a payment of just under 700 before insurance and taxes. 4 times the annual earning was a consideration. At 15 an hour they would likely try to set you up with a 124k or less house. Which is mammoth for that low an hourly worker. Hence the trouble because thats about half of the monthly earning going to the house payment.

My point was to partner that with a higher cost of living to the tune of 3,4 or 500 more a month just pushed the guy over extending himself off the bridge.

Viva probably didn't understand any of that.

[JoeChalupa]

I was making less then $15 an hour when I bought my house.

[JoeChalupa]

At 140k with a low low low ARM starting at 3.99 which isn't that likely you're looking at a payment of just under 700 before insurance and taxes. 4 times the annual earning was a consideration. At 15 an hour they would likely try to set you up with a 124k or less house. Which is mammoth for that low an hourly worker. Hence the trouble because thats about half of the monthly earning going to the house payment.

My point was to partner that with a higher cost of living to the tune of 3,4 or 500 more a month just pushed the guy over extending himself off the bridge.

Viva probably didn't understand any of that.

I concur but did people really think they could afford a $100K home? Or did the banks tell them they could?

[BacktoBasics]

I concur but did people really think they could afford a $100K home? Or did the banks tell them they could?Well thats a tough question but the short answer is that quite a few people were lied to and quite a few less intelligent people like Viva didn't comprehend ARMs even when they were explained to them.

I'll give you a good example

Finance guy: Here you go sir 594 dollars a month on the house and see how affordable that is...fits right in your budget.

Customer: WOW how did you do that...sounds grrrreat.

Finance: Well sir you quailified for are special A...R...M program and we got you into this wonderful introductory rate of 3.99%. Now with an A R M the rate may move from time to time. These means you might even get a lower rate which would drop your house payment by a few dollars or heck even a few hundred dollars.

Customer: Sounds awesome.

Finance: Sign right here.

and that would be the honest way of selling it. Some didn't even get told the rate could fluctuate.

[JoeChalupa]

Well thats a tough question but the short answer is that quite a few people were lied to and quite a few less intelligent people like Viva didn't comprehend ARMs even when they were explained to them.

I'll give you a good example

Finance guy: Here you go sir 594 dollars a month on the house and see how affordable that is...fits right in your budget.

Customer: WOW how did you do that...sounds grrrreat.

Finance: Well sir you quailified for are special A...R...M program and we got you into this wonderful introductory rate of 3.99%. Now with an A R M the rate may move from time to time. These means you might even get a lower rate which would drop your house payment by a few dollars or heck even a few hundred dollars.

Customer: Sounds awesome.

Finance: Sign right here.

and that would be the honest way of selling it. Some didn't even get told the rate could fluctuate.

That is just stupid. I learned years ago NOT to go with an ARM regardless of the low rate. Buyer beware. IT doesn't take a genius to know that buying a home with a A.R.M. could cost you an arm and a leg if rates went up.

[BacktoBasics]

That is just stupid. I learned years ago NOT to go with an ARM regardless of the low rate. Buyer beware. IT doesn't take a genius to know that buying a home with a A.R.M. could cost you an arm and a leg if rates went up.
Before all this happened most people didn't even know that loans like that existed. You underestimate how little the average American understands. Lots of people have the mentality that someone else is their to protect them or that no way could you ever get screwed like that because I'll sue and blah blah blah.

[JoeChalupa]

Before all this happened most people didn't even know that loans like that existed. You underestimate how little the average American understands. Lots of people have the mentality that someone else is their to protect them or that no way could you ever get screwed like that because I'll sue and blah blah blah.

I don't get how people could be so careless on such a major investment in their future.
As a matter of fact, I think I learned about A.R.M.'s in a basic economic business class in high school.

[CosmicCowboy]

Might get back to 10,000 before the bell.

Damn close. What a crazy day. I don't think I've ever seen the market act this strangely. Somehow this didn't feel like a "bottom feeder" rally, but someone (Treasury? The Saudi's?) dumping a massive amount of money into the market at the last minute to prevent a total meltdown and further destabilizing the world markets. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but that market was going straight off the cliff and accelerating till it "hit" 9600 and bounced straight back up 400 points in the last 45 minutes.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn close. What a crazy day. I don't think I've ever seen the market act this strangely. Somehow this didn't feel like a "bottom feeder" rally, but someone (Treasury? The Saudi's?) dumping a massive amount of money into the market at the last minute to prevent a total meltdown and further destabilizing the world markets. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but that market was going straight off the cliff and accelerating till it "hit" 9600 and bounced straight back up 400 points in the last 45 minutes.I don't think that's conspiracy thinking. The CNBC guys were running around like chickens with their heads cut off two hours before the close specifically because they hadn't seen the kind of injection you described. I agree the rally was too big for just bargain hunters.

[smeagol]

I just looked at the CNN title, it must be a typo then. Still, no one can deny the possibility with the current state of things.

Talk about being out of touch with reality . . . :lol

[RandomGuy]

I don't think that's conspiracy thinking. The CNBC guys were running around like chickens with their heads cut off two hours before the close specifically because they hadn't seen the kind of injection you described. I agree the rally was too big for just bargain hunters.

Unless it hit some floor that triggered a lot of automatic computerized buying.

From what I understand, losses more than 2% trigger a lot of automatic trading/selling, so it would stand to reason that there is some kind of opposite effect for losses.

On a semi-related note, I stumbled across a thing of beauty today:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=WFR

Compare cash on hand vs. long-term debt.

I have some idea why the company was off a bit from it's high, but it seems to be VERY cheap. (PEG ratio is .23!)

Just thought I would throw that in for the finance types.

Disclosure:

This is the ONE stock that RG's wife has in her very small IRA.

I really wish I had the cash to double up on this one. It's long term price seems waaaaaay cheap.

[CubanMustGo]

I don't get how people could be so careless on such a major investment in their future.
As a matter of fact, I think I learned about A.R.M.'s in a basic economic business class in high school.

A lot of people didn't go to high school, or have a high school that offered a 'basic economic business class'.

Some of those poor bastards took out escalating negative amortization loans, all because the loan shark/real estate slime told them "it's no problem, your house will never go down in value so you'll be building equity without paying a penny of principal and in five years you will be able to sell for a huge profit.' And that kind of crap is one big reason the housing industry is in the mess it is today, leading to the current economic situation.

It's just like politics -- too many people hear only what they want to hear. Logic is overcome by emotion and greed.

[JoeChalupa]

A lot of people didn't go to high school, or have a high school that offered a 'basic economic business class'.

Some of those poor bastards took out escalating negative amortization loans, all because the loan shark/real estate slime told them "it's no problem, your house will never go down in value so you'll be building equity without paying a penny of principal and in five years you will be able to sell for a huge profit.' And that kind of crap is one big reason the housing industry is in the mess it is today, leading to the current economic situation.

It's just like politics -- too many people hear only what they want to hear. Logic is overcome by emotion and greed.

Didn't go to high school in today's age? Then that is truly sad. I think I took the class in 1978. 30 damn years ago.

[Shelly]

I concur but did people really think they could afford a $100K home? Or did the banks tell them they could?

A few years ago when we bought our lot, the bank told us very excitedly that we qualified for a $380k LOT loan. I could have bought most of West Texas with that!

Crazy.

[Clandestino]

The funny thing about this false stat is some dumb fuck probably repeated it like phyzik did. 1 out of 4 people do not have a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lmao

LOL!

[Clandestino]

re: ARMS..

they ALL fucking knew.. it is easier to claim ignorance though. homes are most peoples largest investment. there is a shitload of paperwork and other you go through to buy.. you don't just accidentally buy a house!

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think they all knew. There are some pretty stupid homeowners out there.

[smeagol]

I don't think they all knew. There are some pretty stupid homeowners out there.

Some are posting on ST as we speak . . .

[ALWAYS bet on BLACK]

Question:

Does the carpet match the drapes?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Glad to see that the absurd credit bubble is finally bursting - had to happen sooner or later, and the longer it lasted the worse the pain.

So, those of you with cash in your accounts:
1) when are you going to get back into the market, and,
2) what are you going to buy (ie. what do you buy during a recession/depression)?

I'm thinking get in in about 6 months, and buy food, energy and water stocks, because they are the things no-one can do without, and for which the world has pretty much reached (or exceeded) its maximum sustainable supply.

Also, for you guys who obviously dabble in the stock market, what are the 5 or 10 things you'd check on before buying into a stock?

[Custodial Engineer]

Bonds

[MannyIsGod]

Glad to see that the absurd credit bubble is finally bursting - had to happen sooner or later, and the longer it lasted the worse the pain.

So, those of you with cash in your accounts:
1) when are you going to get back into the market, and,
2) what are you going to buy (ie. what do you buy during a recession/depression)?

I'm thinking get in in about 6 months, and buy food, energy and water stocks, because they are the things no-one can do without, and for which the world has pretty much reached (or exceeded) its maximum sustainable supply.

Also, for you guys who obviously dabble in the stock market, what are the 5 or 10 things you'd check on before buying into a stock?

LOL I'm sorry but that statement is quite funny because its so fucking stupid.

[CosmicCowboy]

Looks like the markets are going to be more stable today...Australia surprised everyone and dropped rates to 1% which had a calming effect on the asian markets...Japan only dropped about 3% and Hong Kong 5%. Europe is up a little and the US markets opened on an upswing.

That being said, this is a world market that is just holding it's breath for the next set of bad news that could drop the bottom right out of the market again...

[BacktoBasics]

What the fuck just happened with the Federal Reserve? Did they just duplicate the bailout?

[CosmicCowboy]

What the fuck just happened with the Federal Reserve? Did they just duplicate the bailout?

Yep...

Markets opened slightly up and the smart money started selling into the rally...then the market dropped like a rock and the Fed stepped in and confirmed they were going to start buying massive amounts ( I have not heard an upper limit) of commercial paper...the market bumped up a hundred points on that news and immediately started trending down again. It hasn't gone off the cliff yet but is still down from the close yesterday and trending lower...

This does not look good. I really thought the markets were going to stabilize and go sideways on that news. Paulson and Bernake are running out of options. The only thing they have left is a major emergency interest rate cut (already at only 2%) like to 1% or less. If the markets start dropping dramatically I expect to see that too...then they will be done and out of "quick fix" options.

[BacktoBasics]

So why bother with the bailout if this was going to happen? I read recently that quite a few banks are going to skip over the bailout because part of the bill details pay cuts for upper level execs. So much for that plan.

[T Park]

Good thing the government stepped in with that bailout paying off businesses with our tax money.

Just has worked wonders.

[CosmicCowboy]

The markets won't see that money for at least 45 days as they are setting up the funding/regulation framework. Meanwhile they are doing everything they can to keep the economy and the markets from going completely off the cliff.

[CosmicCowboy]

uh oh

Market just fell through 9800 and dropping like a rock.

The Treasury/Fed is just about out of options to turn this thing...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i wonder when they'll start confiscating gold

[BacktoBasics]

i wonder when they'll start confiscating gold
They can start with BRHornets teeth

[mrsmaalox]

They can start with BRHornets teeth

you mean "teef"

[Viva Las Espuelas]

teefasus.

[BacktoBasics]

you mean "teef"
:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn

Deja Vu all over again.

Look at the chart. Just like yesterday, market free falling past 9700 and volume suddenly appears and increases trying to keep it from popping 9600.

This isn't bottom feeding, this is somebody spending a lot of money fucking with the market to keep it from dropping past 9600.

http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/b?s=%5EDJI

[Jekka]

I've got to quit hitting refresh on the market page ... it's getting seriously depressing.

[Jekka]

Just broke 9600 - at 9590.79.

[CubanMustGo]

Ben Bernanke should keep his freakin' mouth shut.

[CosmicCowboy]

Just broke 9600 - at 9590.79.

Then look at the volume spike and the immediate bounce back up. Someone is throwing huge amounts of money at supporting a 9600 bottom.

[Extra Stout]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[CosmicCowboy]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

turned out he needed to fear Lee Harvey Oswald too...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

turned out he needed to fear Lee Harvey Oswald too...

I think you're mixing up your presidential quotes CC. FDR said the line about fear when addressing the nation as it struggled through the Great Depression.

[monosylab1k]

I think you're mixing up your presidential quotes CC. FDR said the line about fear when addressing the nation as it struggled through the Great Depression.

:lmao


turned out he needed to fear polio too...

FIFY

[CosmicCowboy]

lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Actually he'd already been crippled, but not killed, by polio by that point. Given that it was a large fatal disease at the time I'd say he didn't have much to fear from that. What he should have included on his list:
-strokes
-Nazis
-Japan's Ninja Navy
-starvation
-falling stockbrokers landing on your head
-the prospect that John Steinbeck would write an entirely too long account of the struggle of the American migrant workers from the Dust Bowl which would then become required reading for us all

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

But more importantly, the stock market is toast. WTF?

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually he'd already been crippled, but not killed, by polio by that point. Given that it was a large fatal disease at the time I'd say he didn't have much to fear from that. What he should have included on his list:
-strokes
-Nazis
-Japan's Ninja Navy
-starvation
-falling stockbrokers landing on your head
-the prospect that John Steinbeck would write an entirely too long account of the struggle of the American migrant workers from the Dust Bowl which would then become required reading for us all

:lmao

fucking "Grapes of Wrath":ihit

[CosmicCowboy]

damn, it's doing it again. Look at the volume spikes the second it hits 9600.

[BacktoBasics]

Its a conspiracy. Its probably at 2000 and they just don't want you to know bwhahahaha

[T Park]

thank god I just work in cash and not stocks or anything

[Anti.Hero]

We are doomed! Sell Sell Sell

[smeagol]

damn, it's doing it again. Look at the volume spikes the second it hits 9600.

There goes you theory. It's below 9,500

[timvp]

I'm not buying til it hits 8000 :hungry:

[MannyIsGod]

When people say why did we do the bailout they're not realizing that while this is bad, it could be worse.

How much money is everyone out on their 401ks?

[Anti.Hero]

When people say why did we do the bailout they're not realizing that while this is bad, it could be worse.

How much money is everyone out on their 401ks?

None, I haven't sold anything.

[MannyIsGod]

how much VALUE then. Happy? Biaaaaaaatch.

[CosmicCowboy]

There goes you theory. It's below 9,500

Look at the volume. It wasn't for lack of trying. There was a stampede for the door and even massive buying couldn't stop it.

http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/b?s=%5EDJI

[Suicidal Jack]

today is as good a day as any to kill myself!

[smeagol]

Look at the volume. It wasn't for lack of trying. There was a stampede for the door and even massive buying couldn't stop it.

http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/b?s=%5EDJI

Volume has been increasing at the end of trading sessions for a while now.

[CosmicCowboy]

When people say why did we do the bailout they're not realizing that while this is bad, it could be worse.

How much money is everyone out on their 401ks?

It's not your 401K's you need to worry about, it's your jobs. This is getting very very scary. Paulson and the Fed are down to very few options. Nothing they have been able to do has slowed this train...the only thing they can do know is drop interest rates to 1% or less and HOPE that isn't too little too late.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not your 401K's you need to worry about, it's your jobs. This is getting very very scary. Paulson and the Fed are down to very few options. Nothing they have been able to do has slowed this train...the only thing they can do know is drop interest rates to 1% or less and HOPE that isn't too little too late.

Well I'm not employeed but I'm guessing that lower discretionary spending across the board is not good for me either.

[smeagol]

Agree with CC. 401Ks are to be used in 30 years. It is your job and whatever other savings you have you should be worried about.

[RandomGuy]

When people say why did we do the bailout they're not realizing that while this is bad, it could be worse.

How much money is everyone out on their 401ks?

$2,000,000,000,000

That is trillion with a "T" and that stands for Trouble, right here in River city.


Retirement accounts have lost $2 trillion

WASHINGTON – Americans' retirement plans have lost as much as $2 trillion in the past 15 months, Congress' top budget analyst estimated Tuesday. The upheaval that has engulfed the financial industry and sent the stock market plummeting is devastating workers' savings, forcing people to hold off on major purchases and consider delaying their retirement, said Peter Orszag, the head of the Congressional Budget Office.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/meltdown_retirement

[MannyIsGod]

Agree with CC. 401Ks are to be used in 30 years. It is your job and whatever other savings you have you should be worried about.

The point is this is how the average American relates to the stock market. Most people don't have porfolios and don't know what the numbers mean other than if it goes down its bad.

But when they look at their monthly 401k statments and see how much they just "lost" it tends to hit home.

[Anti.Hero]

Will the government suspend IRA/401k early withdrawal tax penalties?

[MannyIsGod]

Will the government suspend IRA/401k early withdrawal tax penalties?

My god that would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do right now.

[Anti.Hero]

My god that would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do right now.

It's not very fair for the government to tax you when you just need to turn YOUR money into capital so you can survive.

That doesn't seem very Obamaseque. I thought fairness was the name of the game now?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i hope people don't start bailing on the hedge funds. just wait 'til that happens.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not very fair for the government to tax you when you just need to turn YOUR money into capital so you can survive.

That doesn't seem very Obamaseque. I thought fairness was the name of the game now?

Does your shoulder hurt after that reach?

[T Park]

Dunno what else to say that hasn't already been said. Honestly don't know what would fix it

[smeagol]

The point is this is how the average American relates to the stock market. Most people don't have porfolios and don't know what the numbers mean other than if it goes down its bad.

But when they look at their monthly 401k statments and see how much they just "lost" it tends to hit home.

I agree that average Americans do relate to the stock market via their 401Ks. Nevertheless, unless you are about to retire, you should not worry (and I agree this is not an easy thing to do).

I guess the solution is to move your 401K money to bond funds.

[mrsmaalox]

When people say why did we do the bailout they're not realizing that while this is bad, it could be worse.

How much money is everyone out on their 401ks?

My biggest acct is a 403b and I'm down 10k, last time I checked (not today). But I believe I have recovered nicely from 7k loss in the past, so I'm not too excited....yet. Plus I don't need the money. My smaller accts I haven't even checked.

[CosmicCowboy]

If I WAS in the market I would not consider it my patriotic duty to leave my life's investments in the markets and watch them wither away just to "keep the market from dropping further"...At this point I would stay in till the Fed drops interest rates. I would watch the bounce, and if the market started to turn south again after that I would get the heck out and sit on the sidelines in Tbills till things sort out. IMHO after the rate drop Paulson and Bernake will be out of bullets and there will be NO fundamentals left to sharply increase the market and when the market finally finds a bottom it will be wide and deep. There will be plenty of time to get back in when the smoke clears.

[SpursWoman]

I guess the solution is to move your 401K money to bond funds.


The company I know that manages a friend of mines' 401k has put a freeze on any and all transactions in regards how they are diversified.

I'm not even going to look at mine ... I'm too scurred.

[CosmicCowboy]

The company I know that manages a friend of mines' 401k has put a freeze on any and all transactions in regards how they are diversified.


My answer to that would be "then give me a cashiers check, asshole..."

[smeagol]

The company I know that manages a friend of mines' 401k has put a freeze on any and all transactions in regards how they are diversified.

:wow

Can they do that?

[smeagol]

I have money in the stock market (stupid of me). I'm waiting for a pop, and I'm out. I will buy puts then, betting that the market continues to plummet.

[SpursWoman]

That's what I said .... that and that he needs to start making some phone calls. I can't see how that can possibly be right.

I know there are a lot of restrictions to withdrawing your money, but I can't see not being able to move it around.

[gay abc]

The company I know that manages a friend of mines' 401k has put a freeze on any and all transactions in regards how they are diversified.

I'm not even going to look at mine ... I'm too scurred.

I moved our 401ks to bond/interest bearing funds last year and have left them there - we have actually made some money instead of losing tens of thousands :)

[RandomGuy]

I agree that average Americans do relate to the stock market via their 401Ks. Nevertheless, unless you are about to retire, you should not worry ...

Baby boomers are all about to retire.

Looks like they will stay in the labor market, clogging things up and driving the price of labor down.

Dammit. I am in a great position to benefit from all those retirees freeing up their nice jobs...

[RandomGuy]

If you are 10+ years from retirement, now is a great time to keep money in the market. A few steady investments over the next few years seems to be a good idea, while everyone else is running for the hills.

The economy WILL recover by then, and those steady investments you made while things tank right about now will make you seem like a genius buying things at historically cheap levels.

[RandomGuy]

I moved our 401ks to bond/interest bearing funds last year and have left them there - we have actually made some money instead of losing tens of thousands :)

Always good to keep a mix. Don't try to "time" the markets, that is generally a losing proposition.

If you stay in bonds only, you will miss out on an upswing, because you will not likely be able to figure out when it happens until after it happens.

I am glad it worked out for you, though.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you are 10+ years from retirement, now is a great time to keep money in the market. A few steady investments over the next few years seems to be a good idea, while everyone else is running for the hills.

The economy WILL recover by then, and those steady investments you made while things tank right about now will make you seem like a genius buying things at historically cheap levels.

I think you are missing the fact that this is not a localized and classic cycle slump in the US stock market. This is a potential collapse of the global credit markets and an almost assured global recession or even depression. If it reaches that point there is not going to be a quick recovery and a narrow window of opportunity to "catch the bottom". The bottom (when it's finally reached) will be wide and deep if the upcoming interest rate cuts don't stop the bleeding it will get ugly fast. Dollar cost averaging is for "normal" stock market cycles and this is not the case. I'm just saying that if stocks start going back downhill after the Fed drops interest rates to 3/4% or 1% its time to get the fuck out and sit on the sidelines in t-Bills till the smoke clears.

[Anti.Hero]

Those ABOUT to retire should have been in less aggressive investments. That's what you do when you get close to retiring. Although, I suppose to lure of making 8% on 1.5 million without having to lift a finger in one little year is pretty damn attractive. After 30+ years of compounded interest you should get to enjoy the best part so that does suck for many out there.

People lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over the span of 401k, IRAs. They also make millions including the negative return years.

I'm not freaking out because I have been told reality since I was a little boy.


If this is truly the collapse of our beloved market....damn :downspin: I always had shitty timing.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

worse case scenario. if a currency were to fail, how would that effect the markets?

[CosmicCowboy]

worse case scenario. if a currency were to fail, how would that effect the markets?

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-17244550.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B23265753-EBAE-4832-899A-4B83AD950605%7D

[CosmicCowboy]

Those ABOUT to retire should have been in less aggressive investments. That's what you do when you get close to retiring. Although, I suppose to lure of making 8% on 1.5 million without having to lift a finger in one little year is pretty damn attractive. After 30+ years of compounded interest you should get to enjoy the best part so that does suck for many out there.

People lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over the span of 401k, IRAs. They also make millions including the negative return years.

I'm not freaking out because I have been told reality since I was a little boy.


If this is truly the collapse of our beloved market....damn :downspin: I always had shitty timing.

The world is not going to end and there will always be financial markets. I agree that there will be money to be made when it finally turns and starts coming back up. At the same time, it is absolute lunacy to keep drinking the "dollar cost averaging" koolaid when the handwriting is on the wall that the current markets are about to come un-spooled. I will say it again...IF the markets keep dropping after the Fed drops interest rates to practically zero then you could easily see a market bottom several thousand points lower and half the people in this forum could be out of jobs. It's going to be a market bottom that a blind man could see. All the smart money has been bailing to treasuries the last few days.

[BacktoBasics]

Hopefully we still have internet porn

[BacktoBasics]

on a related and somewhat unrelated note I have been informed that 4 out of my last 6 lenders will not finance applicants who live in Louisiana. When I saw the decline I called because I've never heard of such a reason for decline. These banks have written that state off as out of territory. This is getting ridiculous.

[Clandestino]

markets will come back sooner than people think. this is no doomsday scenario. the "end of the world" predictions happen EVERYTIME the market drops. All the dumbasses who sell out are the ones who exacerbate the problem.

with no pensions, the market is the ONLY way the majority of people will ever be able to retire. or you can also save half your paycheck every month and put into cds. then you may end up having enough.

[MannyIsGod]

on a related and somewhat unrelated note I have been informed that 4 out of my last 6 lenders will not finance applicants who live in Louisiana. When I saw the decline I called because I've never heard of such a reason for decline. These banks have written that state off as out of territory. This is getting ridiculous.

Holy shit so no matter what their credit if you're in LA you're out of luck with these lenders?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

[TDMVPDPOY]

fuck this

the bank i put my deposit in is getting bought for $2.1billion, stupid parent company in england HBOS is being taken over...i wonder wtf happens to my deposit account...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

LOL I'm sorry but that statement is quite funny because its so fucking stupid.

Yeah, right. A large chunk of the western world has been living far beyond its means for a decade, what with a large proportion of the population buying shitloads of crap they can't afford ON CREDIT, and it had to come home to roost some time. What exactly is "fucking stupid" about pointing that out? This credit crunch isn't just about the sub-prime mortgage lending, which was basically a big scam on the poor and stupid, it's about entire economies living beyond their ability to pay for what is consumed. Please enlighten my stupidity, oh wise one. :rolleyes

Any fool could see that the US, and the West in general, was in for a gut-check, it was simply a matter of when it was going to happen. I've had money in the bank for the last 3 years because I could see this coming, I just didn't know when it was going to happen. Now that stock markets are flushing out all the bad debt, the system should return to some kind of sanity - how long that will take is the question. Sure, the crunch is hurting people, but you can't live on credit for ever, and a lot of people have put themselves in credit holes so they can live lifestyles they could never really afford. It's harsh, but I have no sympathy for those people because they did it to themselves.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Looks like the markets are going to be more stable today...Australia surprised everyone and dropped rates to 1% which had a calming effect on the asian markets...Japan only dropped about 3% and Hong Kong 5%. Europe is up a little and the US markets opened on an upswing.

That being said, this is a world market that is just holding it's breath for the next set of bad news that could drop the bottom right out of the market again...

Australia dropped rates BY 1%, not TO 1%. The official interest rate set by the RBA is now 6%.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm not buying til it hits 8000 :hungry:

EXACTLY.

I've read estimates that there is up to 4 trillion of bad debt that needs to be written off, so why does anyone think these gap-plugging measures are going to have much effect? The market needs to purge itself of all the shit, and that could take another couple of years, depending on how quickly the debt is written off. There is a long way yet to slide.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The point is this is how the average American relates to the stock market. Most people don't have porfolios and don't know what the numbers mean other than if it goes down its bad.

But when they look at their monthly 401k statments and see how much they just "lost" it tends to hit home.

Which totally ignores the fact that a lot of what was "lost" NEVER EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE - it was a bunch of figures founded on nothing but market optimism and fancy smokescreens.

As you well know, the real value of the market is based on the productive capacity behind it, and much of the bull market wasn't founded on increased capacity to produce.

The market correction is a good thing - it is going to force our societies to start living in reality, within our means, again. Painful, but necessary.

And as for retirement funds, those who are set to retire in the next 3-5 years are going to do it tough, but everyone else will be okay. The market will eventually recover and go bullish again, hopefully based on real economic expansion this time... massive investment in sustainable infrastructure, anyone? After this deep recession/depression bottoms, and with better and cheaper technology coming online all the time, investment in renewable energy and water technology will be the big leap that will fuel the next bull cycle. Mark my words. The world can't grow without sustainable energy and water.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

fuck this

the bank i put my deposit in is getting bought for $2.1billion, stupid parent company in england HBOS is being taken over...i wonder wtf happens to my deposit account...

Are you that stupid? Oh, sorry, forgot who I was talking to...

Nothing will happen to your deposit. Commonwealth are buying BankWest because it's a good investment. The will either keep the brand, or they'll merge the deposits into the C'wealth brand and you'll become a C'wealth customer. You won't lose a cent.

Now if HBOS went under still owning BankWest you'd be in trouble. You should be welcoming this takeover!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

worse case scenario. if a currency were to fail, how would that effect the markets?

As I understand it, all the world's oil contracts, and much of the world's other resource contracts, are written in US dollars, and the US still has a massive, productive economy (even though it is riddled with bad debt). These factors make it unlikely that the US$ will go peso...

I'm pissed I didn't buy some USDs when it was 1:1 with the AUD! It's now back to 1:0.7... :depressed

[travis2]

The Fed just lowered interest rates to 1.5%.

(Radio news story)

[smeagol]

The Fed just lowered interest rates to 1.5%.

(Radio news story)

In a coordinated effort with the ECB and the Bank of England, which also lowered their rates by 50 bps.

CC, this is what you wnated to see. The FED's last bullet. Let's see how market reacts. Europe has turned around and the Dow futures went from negative 1.5% to positive 0.5%.

My feeling is that there will be a temporary boost in the markets but the downward trend will continue. The system has to drain itself, and this will take time.

I agree with DOW 8,000 prediction. I would venture to say it might go even lower.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think 1/2% is gonna be enough to turn the tide. Hand on to your seats, it's gonna be a bumpy ride today.

[smeagol]

The "rally" was even shorter than what i thought . . . It never even made it to the opening bell.

Markets are set to take another nosedive. DOW futures is 250 pts lower . . .

[smeagol]

I don't think 1/2% is gonna be enough to turn the tide. Hand on to your seats, it's gonna be a bumpy ride today.

If 50 bps is not enough than nothing is. We are at 1.5%. Gonig to 0.75% will not make a difference. At this rate, the Feds Fund Rate will become negative (real rates already are).

[CosmicCowboy]

The drop today is gonna make the last two days look tame. I wouldn't be surprised if the circuit breaker gets kicked today...(10% drop)

[Shelly]

I don't think 1/2% is gonna be enough to turn the tide. Hand on to your seats, it's gonna be a bumpy ride today.

It will mean my husband's student loans will go down a little! Maybe a dollar? :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

And it begins. 100 points straight down at the opening bell.

[CosmicCowboy]

What a crazy chart. dropped 250 and bounced right back. The lines are so close together it looks like one line.

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn. It really really tried to rally. Bounced all the way up to 2600+ (almost a 400 point swing) then went off the cliff again. Now down about 50 from yesterdays close. All that in less than an hour. CRAZY shit!

[RandomGuy]

I think you are missing the fact that this is not a localized and classic cycle slump in the US stock market. This is a potential collapse of the global credit markets and an almost assured global recession or even depression. If it reaches that point there is not going to be a quick recovery and a narrow window of opportunity to "catch the bottom". The bottom (when it's finally reached) will be wide and deep if the upcoming interest rate cuts don't stop the bleeding it will get ugly fast. Dollar cost averaging is for "normal" stock market cycles and this is not the case. I'm just saying that if stocks start going back downhill after the Fed drops interest rates to 3/4% or 1% its time to get the fuck out and sit on the sidelines in t-Bills till the smoke clears.

Hmmm.

The bottom will be wide and deep, but I think the advice still holds.

Continued, steady investments during this crisis will yield massively 10 years down the road.

Even the Great Depression didn't last quite that long.

If your retirement time window is longer than 10 years, then selling off is not worth it.

Any money you invest in stocks in the next two years will buy a lot more shares than they will in 5 years.

Yes, you will take some hits as the market continues to slide, but the losses are short term, and you will be very well positioned when the market goes up as it always does.

[RandomGuy]

Those ABOUT to retire should have been in less aggressive investments. That's what you do when you get close to retiring. Although, I suppose to lure of making 8% on 1.5 million without having to lift a finger in one little year is pretty damn attractive. After 30+ years of compounded interest you should get to enjoy the best part so that does suck for many out there.

People lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over the span of 401k, IRAs. They also make millions including the negative return years.

I'm not freaking out because I have been told reality since I was a little boy.

If this is truly the collapse of our beloved market....damn :downspin: I always had shitty timing.

Yup.

If you are due to be retiring in less than 10 years, you should have most of your assets in bonds anyways.

I don't see it as a collapse. The government will step in, and there will be more oversight and transparency in the future, and business will bounce back.

The government will step back eventually and loosen up its control.

Anything more, and I will be getting into politics, and this is not the place for that.

[RandomGuy]

If 50 bps is not enough than nothing is. We are at 1.5%. Gonig to 0.75% will not make a difference. At this rate, the Feds Fund Rate will become negative (real rates already are).

Yup. The problem with that particular lever is that you can only drop it to 0% and then your ability to use it is gone.

I see it getting to a self-imposed floor of 1%, possibily as low as 0.5%

I can't envision an American Fed dropping it below that.

The global rate change will help staunch the fear though, and that probably is worth more than most might think.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's actually better this morning than I expected..."only" down 176 in the first two hours.

[smeagol]

Even the Great Depression didn't last quite that long.

It took almost 30 years for the Dow to recover to pre 1929 levels. I believe it finally did in 1956.

The Great Depression was no fucking joke.

[travis2]

It took almost 30 years for the Dow to recover to pre 1929 levels. I believe it finally did in 1956.

The Great Depression was no fucking joke.

No, it happened earlier than that. Early '50s, it looks like. And you are obviously counting from the 1929 peak right before the crash.

Further, the low point in the Dow was not the '29 crash. The crash took the Dow down to around 200...it rebounded to nearly 300 in 1930...THEN the bottom fell out over the next 2 years...ending up at 41 and change in 1932.

[smeagol]

No, it happened earlier than that. Early '50s, it looks like. And you are obviously counting from the 1929 peak right before the crash.

The peak was 380 pts in Aug 1929. I got there again Nov 1954.

But even if you consider an average of 185 pts for the period 1925 - 1929, it took the DOW another 8 years (1937) to get to those levels (187.10 pts), only to gop into another bear market which bottomed in 1942 and reached the 190 level again 1946.

After the Great Depression, there are two long bull markets: 1942 - 1966, and 1982 - 2007. You can obviously find some bearish years withing those two long periods of time, but all in all, the direction was always going up.



Further, the low point in the Dow was not the '29 crash. The crash took the Dow down to around 200...it rebounded to nearly 300 in 1930...THEN the bottom fell out over the next 2 years...ending up at 41 and change in 1932.

90% drop. Scary!

[CosmicCowboy]

It's easy to look at it day to day and think "oh it will bounce back up" but if you look at it in the perspective of year to date and see the market implosion of the last few weeks it's a lot more ominous. Heres a good chart...

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI#chart1:symbol=^dji;range=ytd;indi cator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalue s=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, right. A large chunk of the western world has been living far beyond its means for a decade, what with a large proportion of the population buying shitloads of crap they can't afford ON CREDIT, and it had to come home to roost some time. What exactly is "fucking stupid" about pointing that out? This credit crunch isn't just about the sub-prime mortgage lending, which was basically a big scam on the poor and stupid, it's about entire economies living beyond their ability to pay for what is consumed. Please enlighten my stupidity, oh wise one. :rolleyes

Any fool could see that the US, and the West in general, was in for a gut-check, it was simply a matter of when it was going to happen. I've had money in the bank for the last 3 years because I could see this coming, I just didn't know when it was going to happen. Now that stock markets are flushing out all the bad debt, the system should return to some kind of sanity - how long that will take is the question. Sure, the crunch is hurting people, but you can't live on credit for ever, and a lot of people have put themselves in credit holes so they can live lifestyles they could never really afford. It's harsh, but I have no sympathy for those people because they did it to themselves.

Stock Markets flushing out bad debt = World running out of food and energy? And lets not even talk about Water, the most abundant resource in our world.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

am I reading correctly? DOW up %1.11 right now? that's a hell of a lot better than expected, right?

[RandomGuy]

am I reading correctly? DOW up %1.11 right now? that's a hell of a lot better than expected, right?

Heh, given the volatility of the last few months, I wouldn't put much emphasis on any given day's worth of movement.

It is ok, but bounces like this follow huge point losses. I kinda expected it to go up today.

Tomorrow on the other hand... ?????

Wheeeeeeee!!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Heh, given the volatility of the last few months, I wouldn't put much emphasis on any given day's worth of movement.

It is ok, but bounces like this follow huge point losses. I kinda expected it to go up today.

Tomorrow on the other hand... ?????

Wheeeeeeee!!

yeah, buying stock right now is like playing Russian roulette...

[CosmicCowboy]

am I reading correctly? DOW up %1.11 right now? that's a hell of a lot better than expected, right?

There are huge minute to minute fluctuations today. Still 20+ minutes to close and anything can happen...and up 1% wasn't exactly what they were hoping for with a 50 basic point interest slash. They are about to the point that the only thing they can do to distract/motivate traders is to hire strippers.

[dickface]

There are huge minute to minute fluctuations today. Still 20+ minutes to close and anything can happen.

You sound like you want it to go down the tank.

[dickface]

looks like ur getting ur wish.

[CosmicCowboy]

You sound like you want it to go down the tank.

I don't WANT the market to go down the tank, but any rational person that wasn't drinking the "dollar cost averaging" kool aid would certainly EXPECT the market to continue sliding.

[MannyIsGod]

Someone pulled the stopper out. Its got about 5 minutes of selling to go. Don't be suprised with another drop of around 250

[smeagol]

Someone pulled the stopper out. Its got about 5 minutes of selling to go. Don't be suprised with another drop of around 250

The Dow is rapidly approaching 8,000. LJ, time to invest!

[CosmicCowboy]

Yep...it's gonna blow right through 9000 tomorrow when the market opens.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There are huge minute to minute fluctuations today. Still 20+ minutes to close and anything can happen...and up 1% wasn't exactly what they were hoping for with a 50 basic point interest slash. They are about to the point that the only thing they can do to distract/motivate traders is to hire strippers.

You have any idea how difficult it would be to place an order for 600 shares of something entirely in singles?

[CosmicCowboy]

Closed down 2% AFTER they cut rates 50 basic points almost world wide.

This is gonna get VERY ugly.

In 2 weeks Academy will be having a run on bullets when the fear really starts seeping in.

[CosmicCowboy]

This new economy calls for new financial terms...

CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer.

CFO-- Corporate Fraud Officer.

BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius.

BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex.

VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.

P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing.

BROKER -- What my broker has made me.

STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.

STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.

STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves.

FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has been disconnected.

MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks.

CASH FLOW -- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet.

YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share.

WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @ $240 per share.

INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse.

PROFIT -- An archaic word no longer in use.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

This new economy calls for new financial terms...

CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer.

CFO-- Corporate Fraud Officer.

BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius.

BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18 month period when the kids get no allowance, the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex.

VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower.

P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing.

BROKER -- What my broker has made me.

STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell.

STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock.

STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves.

FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has been disconnected.

MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks.

CASH FLOW -- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet.

YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share.

WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @ $240 per share.

INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse.

PROFIT -- An archaic word no longer in use.

:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

fuck the currency rates now, stupid oil per barrel prices has gone down, but if ur country has a shit currency and continue to go devalue...expect to pay more at the petrol pump, fukn petrol a few days ago Monday was at AUS$1.44/per litre, now thursday its $1.55/per litre...fuck that these OPEC kents arent passing on the savings...

[dimsah]

Stock Markets flushing out bad debt = World running out of food and energy? And lets not even talk about Water, the most abundant resource in our world.

He's probably speaking of drinkable water which makes up only 1% of total water supply worldwide.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its stupid how banks are going bankrupt, but in the safes all have money.....

i wonder whats the balances of those swiss accounts thats uncounted for or them swiss banks with swiss accounts.....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Stock Markets flushing out bad debt = World running out of food and energy? And lets not even talk about Water, the most abundant resource in our world.


Yeah, right. A large chunk of the western world has been living far beyond its means for a decade, what with a large proportion of the population buying shitloads of crap they can't afford ON CREDIT, and it had to come home to roost some time. What exactly is "fucking stupid" about pointing that out? This credit crunch isn't just about the sub-prime mortgage lending, which was basically a big scam on the poor and stupid, it's about entire economies living beyond their ability to pay for what is consumed. Please enlighten my stupidity, oh wise one.

Any fool could see that the US, and the West in general, was in for a gut-check, it was simply a matter of when it was going to happen. I've had money in the bank for the last 3 years because I could see this coming, I just didn't know when it was going to happen. Now that stock markets are flushing out all the bad debt, the system should return to some kind of sanity - how long that will take is the question. Sure, the crunch is hurting people, but you can't live on credit for ever, and a lot of people have put themselves in credit holes so they can live lifestyles they could never really afford. It's harsh, but I have no sympathy for those people because they did it to themselves.

Where exactly did I conflate what you accuse me of? Manny, you usually say some pretty smart things but you're letting yourself down here because you dismissed me out of hand back on p3 without even thinking about what I was saying.

1. "Stock Markets flushing out bad debt = World running out of food and energy?" I said nothing of the sort. The comment on energy and water was that investment in sustainable energy and water would lead the next bull phase, and was unrelated to my comments on debt and the West living far beyond its means on credit for the last decade. Please learn to READ, and don't misquote me just because you feel like being an arsehole.

2. As for water, now you're showing your pig ignorance on the subject. The world is currently at, and probably beyond, its sustainable potable water limit, and is certainly beyond it in certain regions (California as one example, Australia's Murray-Darling basin another).

http://www.worldwatercouncil.org/index.php?id=25

Have a read, you might learn something.

Frankly, I'm sick of your shitty attitude towards me. I can't remember the last time you said something even half nice to me, so screw you. You don't have to agree with what I say, but you don't have to make shit up and pretend I said it just to be dismissive either. Make a valid point or STFU.


He's probably speaking of drinkable water which makes up only 1% of total water supply worldwide.

Yup, less than 1% of the world's fresh water is readily accessible to humans.... if you count the oceans and talk total, less than 0.01%, but that's a meaningless figure.

And when I'm talking about potable water, I'm also referring to sustainable potable water. Overexploitation of groundwater resources can exhaust the resource - this has already happened across the planet. Many of the world's rivers (especially in Asia and Sth America) are glacier-fed, and with the glaciers disappearing, so does the sustainable water supply. Then you have climate change shifting rainfall patterns across the globe which also affects sustainable water supply, especially when the rain shifts out to sea as has happened in SE and SW Australia.

In other words Manny, fuck you and you ignorance.

[Clandestino]

manny, is the resident expert on all subjects... too bad he can't put anything he knows into a meaningful job.

[marini martini]

Kori, if all these peeps kill themselves, can I have their V-Bookie money???
Thanks! Marini:toast

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Kori, if all these peeps kill themselves, can I have their V-Bookie money???
Thanks! Marini:toast
i like your train of thought.

[dickface]

manny, is the resident expert on all subjects... too bad he can't put anything he knows into a meaningful job.

:lmao

[smeagol]

Market started with a bump.

All major US indices climbing 2 - 3%.

[CosmicCowboy]

yeah, europe and asia markets were up a little and the futures trading was predicting that bump.

[smeagol]

Looks like it will be another volatile session. Indices are now up 1 - 1.5%.

[smeagol]

I just hope we can get two or three days of increases so I can get the hell out of the stock market!

[BacktoBasics]

Holy shit so no matter what their credit if you're in LA you're out of luck with these lenders?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.
I wasn't here yesterday but the answer to this question is YES. No matter how good your credit is you can't buy. To protect themselves from discrimination they're simply saying that LA is out of their region. I still have one or two banks that will lend to that area but you need a 740, 10% down and a debt to income level below 30%.

[MannyIsGod]

Where exactly did I conflate what you accuse me of? Manny, you usually say some pretty smart things but you're letting yourself down here because you dismissed me out of hand back on p3 without even thinking about what I was saying.

1. "Stock Markets flushing out bad debt = World running out of food and energy?" I said nothing of the sort. The comment on energy and water was that investment in sustainable energy and water would lead the next bull phase, and was unrelated to my comments on debt and the West living far beyond its means on credit for the last decade. Please learn to READ, and don't misquote me just because you feel like being an arsehole.

2. As for water, now you're showing your pig ignorance on the subject. The world is currently at, and probably beyond, its sustainable potable water limit, and is certainly beyond it in certain regions (California as one example, Australia's Murray-Darling basin another).

http://www.worldwatercouncil.org/index.php?id=25

Have a read, you might learn something.

Frankly, I'm sick of your shitty attitude towards me. I can't remember the last time you said something even half nice to me, so screw you. You don't have to agree with what I say, but you don't have to make shit up and pretend I said it just to be dismissive either. Make a valid point or STFU.



Yup, less than 1% of the world's fresh water is readily accessible to humans.... if you count the oceans and talk total, less than 0.01%, but that's a meaningless figure.

And when I'm talking about potable water, I'm also referring to sustainable potable water. Overexploitation of groundwater resources can exhaust the resource - this has already happened across the planet. Many of the world's rivers (especially in Asia and Sth America) are glacier-fed, and with the glaciers disappearing, so does the sustainable water supply. Then you have climate change shifting rainfall patterns across the globe which also affects sustainable water supply, especially when the rain shifts out to sea as has happened in SE and SW Australia.

In other words Manny, fuck you and you ignorance.

Go back and read my initial post. Check the line I bolded in the quote.

Now, there was once a point when humans couldn't fly either. There was once a point when all the land they had accessible to them was where they could walk. There was once a point where we didn't have electricity in our cities. There was once a point where you weren't a bleeding vagina who cried over every fucking thing they could. Oh wait, cross off that last one because that time has never existed.

God damn, you can't even keep track of what you say so how am I supposed to expect you think outside the box?

[TDMVPDPOY]

i could care less cause the shares i have an interest in all have there goods/services made locally or rely on locally goods/services producers supply what they make.

The boomers are fckd on there super

[MannyIsGod]

manny, is the resident expert on all subjects... too bad he can't put anything he knows into a meaningful job.

But you know the best part? I know I work less than you and I'm pretty damn sure I make more than you. Chew on that, bitch. :)

[1369]

But you know the best part? I know I work less than you and I'm pretty damn sure I make more than you. Chew on that, bitch. :)

Seriously? Who knew that being a kept man paid so well?

Me and the wife need to have some serious renegotiations.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, that was nice while it lasted. Down 50 and dropping like a rock.

[CosmicCowboy]

Crisis is serious but can be solved, IMF head says
By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last update: 10:09 a.m. EDT Oct. 9, 2008
Comments: 2
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The global economic crisis is "very serious" but can be solved with quick, forceful and cooperative policies, the head of the International Monetary Fund said Thursday ahead of the fund's annual meeting.
"We are on the cusp of a global recession," Dominique Strauss-Kahn said, warning that the recovery would be very gradual, with the beginning of the recovery coming in late 2009.
The first priority is to restore confidence in financial markets, with recapitalization of financial institutions essential, said Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's managing director.
"There is no way out" without boosting the capital of troubled banks, he said.
Stauss-Kahn said policy makers must make sure their actions are comprehensive, with clear objectives to assure public accountability. The public, which is taking on the risks on the downside, should share in the upside as well, he said.
No one country can solve this problem by itself, he said, urging the European countries in particular to work together. "Cooperation and coordination is the price of success," Strauss-Kahn said.
Strauss-Kahn said the Group of Seven has been well-coordinated for the past year, capped by Wednesday's coordinated rate cut by six major central banks. But he argued that the G7 process, no matter how good it is, can't fix what's become a global problem affecting at least 60 countries. End of Story

[AlamoSpursFan]

In 2 weeks Academy will be having a run on bullets when the fear really starts seeping in.

I'm already stocking up...

:lol

Luckily .308 Winchester isn't the most popular ammunition out there.

[CosmicCowboy]

Just blew right through 9000 and still heading south. Down 3%+ just today so far...

[CosmicCowboy]

Down another 1/2% just on a refresh. Headed for 8900.

[CosmicCowboy]

just blew by 8900. down 4%. Still 40 minutes till close.

[smeagol]

I predicted a 7,500 DOW.

Scary shit.

[smeagol]

It blew by 8,800 too.

[MannyIsGod]

Wow. Its almost lost 50% of its value from its peak. Pretty god damn insane.

[hater]

this is it. the end is happening right at this minute.

[MannyIsGod]

When is are the bargain hunters going to come in and stop this? Is the damn pessimism really this bad? The stock market is an indicator of economic health, but its also a good indicator of the psyche of a market and right now I think the only thing you can say is that its obvious how worried the investors are.

[MannyIsGod]

this is it. the end is happening right at this minute.

Its far from the end. The infrastructure of this country has not changed one bit in the past month. The true wealth of this country is still completely intact. That doesn't mean things aren't serious, but its something to remember in times like these.

[hater]

my bad I meant the beginning of the end.


If I was a bargain hunter I would wait until it almost hits bottom. I think that is not happened yet. maybe friday.

[timvp]

When is are the bargain hunters going to come in and stop this? Is the damn pessimism really this bad?I'm waiting for 8000. :hungry:





(Although I might have to adjust that to 7000)

[hater]

shit, I might go all in too if it hits low 7000s

[MannyIsGod]

The tough part is knowing when its hit bottom. Either way, the DOW will be back over 1200 within the short term future. So a smart investor could make a killing in the next 5 years or so.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm waiting for 8000. :hungry:





(Although I might have to adjust that to 7000)

You were saying you've been preparing for this so I'm assuming you're pretty liquid or close enough to make a lot of moves. I hope you make out like a bandit.

[baseline bum]

You were saying you've been preparing for this so I'm assuming you're pretty liquid or close enough to make a lot of moves. I hope you make out like a bandit.

It's all in timvp's plan to eventually buy the Spurs.

[timvp]

You were saying you've been preparing for this so I'm assuming you're pretty liquid or close enough to make a lot of moves. I hope you make out like a bandit.I'm hoping for mass panic in the next week.

:hat

[MannyIsGod]

It's all in timvp's plan to eventually buy the Spurs.

Original FSP members should get a box IMO. We should just take over the Baseline Bums and kick those old fuckers out.

[timvp]

It's all in timvp's plan to eventually buy the Spurs.Naw, who would I complain about then? I need my tractor jokes.

Although speaking of Holt, I wonder if he wishes he would have sold the Spurs last year. Given the current economy, the lowering enthusiasm of Spurs fans and the end of the Duncan era, the Spurs will probably drop in value pretty substantially within the next two years ... if it hasn't happened already.

[baseline bum]

Original FSP members should get a box IMO. We should just take over the Baseline Bums and kick those old fuckers out.

Aw, fuck. I didn't hear about this place initially. For a couple of weeks I was wondering where all the quality posters went to until I got the email from LJ.

[baseline bum]

Naw, who would I complain about then? I need my tractor jokes.

Although speaking of Holt, I wonder if he wishes he would have sold the Spurs last year. Given the current economy, the lowering enthusiasm of Spurs fans and the end of the Duncan era, the Spurs will probably drop in value pretty substantially within the next two years ... if it hasn't happened already.

Hell naw... you could save us from the Kidd or Bust II 2010 plan.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh god, the idea of that is worse than economic collapse.

[CosmicCowboy]

You guys are forgetting this is not just a USA thing. It's a GLOBAL thing. Todays bloodbath will roll right through the Japanese, Hong Kong, China markets, right on through India and Russia to European markets and it will all start over tomorrow. There is NO good news on the immediate horizon to stop it.

[nkdlunch]

well the good news is that the weekend is coming up

[SpursWoman]

You guys are forgetting this is not just a USA thing. It's a GLOBAL thing. Todays bloodbath will roll right through the Japanese, Hong Kong, China markets, right on through India and Russia to European markets and it will all start over tomorrow. There is NO good news on the immediate horizon to stop it.


Oh, come on now .... Obamessiah will be elected and everything will be right with the world. Keep your chin up, salvation is on it's way!

:cheer

[monosylab1k]

It could be worse. A woman could cut off your penis while you're sleeping and toss it out the window of a moving car.

[MannyIsGod]

You guys are forgetting this is not just a USA thing. It's a GLOBAL thing. Todays bloodbath will roll right through the Japanese, Hong Kong, China markets, right on through India and Russia to European markets and it will all start over tomorrow. There is NO good news on the immediate horizon to stop it.

What have we really lost? A bunch of electronic numbers. The markets will settle at some point. I'm not sure where that is, but when they settle and find a bottom - and they will - we only have up to go from there.

Yeah, companies are going to go under and thats going to raise unemployment, but we'll rebound. And we'll learn some lessons that need to be learned. The fact is that as a society we've lived beyond our means for a long time and the market is going to correct for that but once it does we'll start growing once again. And maybe this time we'll grow in a smarter manner.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Oh, come on now .... Obamessiah will be elected and everything will be right with the world. Keep your chin up, salvation is on it's way!

:cheer

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/257/86784023xl1.png

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, come on now .... Obamessiah will be elected and everything will be right with the world. Keep your chin up, salvation is on it's way!

:cheer

For the record, you're the first to bring politics into this thread.

[Spurminator]

What have we really lost? A bunch of electronic numbers. The markets will settle at some point. I'm not sure where that is, but when they settle and find a bottom - and they will - we only have up to go from there.

Yeah, companies are going to go under and thats going to raise unemployment, but we'll rebound. And we'll learn some lessons that need to be learned. The fact is that as a society we've lived beyond our means for a long time and the market is going to correct for that but once it does we'll start growing once again. And maybe this time we'll grow in a smarter manner.


Maybe people will finally learn to cook again.

[hater]

Oh, come on now .... Obamessiah will be elected and everything will be right with the world. Keep your chin up, salvation is on it's way!

:cheer

Breaking News: Mcain suspended his campaign again and is on his way back to Washington to straighten this mess up.

:lmao

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Breaking News: Mcain suspended his campaign again and is on his way back to Washington to straighten this mess up.

:lmao
i wouldn't be surprised.

[CosmicCowboy]

What have we really lost? A bunch of electronic numbers. The markets will settle at some point. I'm not sure where that is, but when they settle and find a bottom - and they will - we only have up to go from there.

Yeah, companies are going to go under and thats going to raise unemployment, but we'll rebound. And we'll learn some lessons that need to be learned. The fact is that as a society we've lived beyond our means for a long time and the market is going to correct for that but once it does we'll start growing once again. And maybe this time we'll grow in a smarter manner.

Manny, Retirement/investment accounts have lost 50% of their value since the start of the year. These are not electronic numbers, these are real dollars. After today about FOUR TRILLION dollars. gone. *poof*

You just have no idea how bad this can get. It translates directly to jobs...

I'm in a pretty recession resistant business but 90% of the businesses and jobs out there AREN'T. You work in a restaurant? You're fucked. Retail Sales? fucked. car sales? Fucked. Homebuilding? Fucked. The only things even remotely safe right now are infrastructure jobs and health care.

[BacktoBasics]

Yeah I'm down about 10k in pay this year and 15k off my best year here. I have no shortage of customers no shortage of people wanting to buy but very few can secure financing. If it gets any worse and I start to lose the volume of customers attempting to buy I'm going to be in real trouble. Thankfully I'm about to get a tax return in a few month that can pay some stuff off and lower my monthly cost of living. This shit is no joke and I'm hoping it levels off where I can at least be functional here. I'm expecting it to take about a year and half to recover once the bottom hits so who knows when that is.

Old people and people with shit credit borrow off their 401k. When they lose money they lose their leverage.

[mouse]

My Boss at work tried to talk me into some 401k with a company called valic back in 1997.

I told him if i can't see my cash i don't want it going to wall st. I told him to buy gold it was around 275.00 an ounce.

[Shelly]

Manny, Retirement/investment accounts have lost 50% of their value since the start of the year. These are not electronic numbers, these are real dollars. After today about FOUR TRILLION dollars. gone. *poof*

You just have no idea how bad this can get. It translates directly to jobs...

I'm in a pretty recession resistant business but 90% of the businesses and jobs out there AREN'T. You work in a restaurant? You're fucked. Retail Sales? fucked. car sales? Fucked. Homebuilding? Fucked. The only things even remotely safe right now are infrastructure jobs and health care.

Even health care has slowed down some. I think more for the specialty fields end of it. We were slower this summer than we have been in the past.

I think people who haven't met their deductibles aren't gonna go to the doctor unless they really need to.

[mouse]

The Amish life is looking dam good right about now. To think our lives are based upon a room full of Investors.

[CosmicCowboy]

I told him to buy gold it was around 275.00 an ounce.

Of course, you probably smoked that gold as soon as you got it.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, Retirement/investment accounts have lost 50% of their value since the start of the year. These are not electronic numbers, these are real dollars. After today about FOUR TRILLION dollars. gone. *poof*

You just have no idea how bad this can get. It translates directly to jobs...

I'm in a pretty recession resistant business but 90% of the businesses and jobs out there AREN'T. You work in a restaurant? You're fucked. Retail Sales? fucked. car sales? Fucked. Homebuilding? Fucked. The only things even remotely safe right now are infrastructure jobs and health care.

I agree with all of this, but even a bad recession does not spell doomsday. This is not going to be the great depression again. We can produce food too easily, we have technology that is going to make things a lot easier and we have a general infrastructure in this country that hasn't been hurt in the slightest.

Yes, there is going to be a lot of hurting, but its not going to be another great depression.

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree with all of this, but even a bad recession does not spell doomsday. This is not going to be the great depression again. We can produce food too easily, we have technology that is going to make things a lot easier and we have a general infrastructure in this country that hasn't been hurt in the slightest.

Yes, there is going to be a lot of hurting, but its not going to be another great depression.

I agree that it's not going to be another great depression but it will be a prolonged recession that will drastically reconstruct the world as you have known it since you were a child. This is the time that people that have real world skills will do well and those that have been bumping along in a credit driven service industry "job" will really suffer.

[remingtonbo2001]

I agree with all of this, but even a bad recession does not spell doomsday. This is not going to be the great depression again. We can produce food too easily, we have technology that is going to make things a lot easier and we have a general infrastructure in this country that hasn't been hurt in the slightest.

Yes, there is going to be a lot of hurting, but its not going to be another great depression.

+1

[BacktoBasics]

I agree that it's not going to be another great depression but it will be a prolonged recession that will drastically reconstruct the world as you have known it since you were a child. This is the time that people that have real world skills will do well and those that have been bumping along in a credit driven service industry "job" will really suffer.
I resent that

[MannyIsGod]

I resent that

:lmao

The Life Coach economy is in the tank.

[BacktoBasics]

I sure fucking hope CC throws me a bone and gets me a job.

[MannyIsGod]

You can clean up his horse's poop and clean their pool.

[BacktoBasics]

We'll have to kill CC's horses for food so thats out.