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LakeShow
10-07-2008, 01:59 AM
John can say goodbye to Florida. What is he thinking? The Obama campaign is hitting him hard on this proposal in Florida.

McCain's Erratic Health Strategy: Now He's Slashing Medicare (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/mccains-erratic-health-st_b_132242.html)

Those of us who analyze health policy and trends for a living have struggled to follow John McCain's health plan through its many seemingly-improvised changes. First he was taxing health benefits through both payroll and income tax. Then he said he only intended to apply income tax, which meant that his plan would create even larger deficits. Now he says there won't be deficits, because he's going to make up the cost of those tax credits by slashing Medicare and Medicaid.

When a candidate suddenly, almost whimsically changes the way he proposes to handle $1.3 trillion - which is the amount of money his plan puts in play over the next ten years - it's time to get nervous.

We already knew the McCain plan was going to cost most Americans money (in at least three different ways.) Now we know it could jeopardize their medical care when they get older, too. The end result of this off-the-cuff planning could change the way Americans receive, or don't receive, medical care in this country.

Even though the Washington Post gave Joe Biden "two pinocchios (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100300032.html)" for his remarks about the McCain health plan, a careful reading of even their critique shows that Biden told the real story. Middle-class wage earners could save something in the first year, but that amount would dwindle over time and eventually become a deficit. And the number of uninsured would actually increase over the long term, according to unbiased studies.
McCain's campaign is now saying that he has given up on the idea of taxing payroll taxes for health benefits, or that it was never intended in the first place. Yet the distinction was not drawn for quite some time, making it appear like a relatively last-minute tweak. Some lobbying may have been involved, too, since this change also insures that corporations won't have to pay a portion of McCain's tax increases. (Companies have payroll tax obligations, too).

With this change, conservative estimates (http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.27.6.w472/DC1)now place the initial number of people losing employer benefits at twenty million. These twenty million people will have $5,000 in credits to buy $12,000 worth of coverage. And that $12,000 figure could rise rapidly without the bulk-buying power and employee satisfaction concerns of employers. (Yes, they do have them.)
McCain is also proposing to dismantle a number of the state rules governing insurance. The way carriers set rates, their ability to deny care, and other practices might be stripped of current consumer protections in many parts of the country. That $12,000 figure could skyrocket as these rules are lifted and as more coverage is transferred to from group to individual policies. (Individual rates tend to be lower now because enrollees tend to be younger and healthier. That will change, perhaps drastically, as the rest of us move in and other factors take over.)

It's important that Americans understand the implications of these changes. We should continue to discuss the uninsured, but it's also important to consider the underinsured - which now includes most of us to some extent. Insurers are covering less and less of the cost of care for those of who have coverage. As a result, personal medical indebtedness is increasing, even as credit is getting harder and costlier to obtain.

So we're talking about at least three kinds of health "tax increases" (more accurately described as increased personal cost) under the McCain plan: a "slow bleed" for people who retain coverage as the tax credit falls behind inflation, a $,7000-plus spike for people who lose their coverage immediately, and an increase in out-of-pocket costs (and denials, etc.) for people who still have insurance. What do we get in return? According to that neutral study, three million uninsured would gain coverage - briefly. After five years the number of uncovered would go up.

About this new Medicare/Medicaid wrinkle: Now that he's dropped the payroll tax idea, estimates show that McCain's plan would cost $1.3 trillion over the next ten years. But today, as Jonathan Cohn (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/10/06/mccain-i-m-not-raising-taxes-i-m-cutting-medicare.aspx)reports, he decided to zig instead of zag. He says he's going to make his plan revenue-neutral by cutting Medicare and Medicaid to make up the difference.

Specifically, McCain's campaign says " the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care." Yet I know of no credible studies saying there is that kind of savings to be found in Medicare. By "reforming payment policies," they mean paying doctors and hospitals less. That means less treatment, less access to care, and a variety of other drastic problems for the one program we'll all join (if we're lucky enough to live that long.) There will also be severe repercussions in the health economy, too complex to go into here.

That means there's now a fourth way that McCain's plan will increase your out-of-pocket healthcare costs. When you cut Medicare and Medicaid payments to doctors and hospitals, they charge private payers more to help make up the difference. That means insurance will cost even more as a result - but that $5,000 won't be increased to cover the difference.
The McCain people also say their new credit will help prevent some low-income people from joining Medicare, further reducing costs. But how many low income people can make up the difference between the tax credit and the real cost - $7,000 and rising fast?

The conclusion seems impossible to avoid: McCain's health care ideas are risky, unstable, and poorly thought out. They could result in a 'healthcare meltdown' that Americans can ill afford. You don't want the surgeon who's operating on you to "wing it." The same is true for the President who can determine whether you can afford that surgery in the first place.

SnakeBoy
10-07-2008, 02:04 AM
HuffingtonPost

Shastafarian
10-07-2008, 07:29 AM
HuffingtonPost

John McCain would pay for his health plan with major reductions to Medicare and Medicaid, a top aide said, in a move that independent analysts estimate could result in cuts of $1.3 trillion over 10 years to the government programs.

The Republican presidential nominee has said little about the proposed cuts, but they are needed to keep his health-care plan "budget neutral," as he has promised. The McCain campaign hasn't given a specific figure for the cuts, but didn't dispute the analysts' estimate.
[John McCain arrives at a town-hall meeting Friday at Colorado State University.] Getty Images

John McCain arrives at a town-hall meeting Friday at Colorado State University.

In the months since Sen. McCain introduced his health plan, statements made by his campaign have implied that the new tax credits he is proposing to help Americans buy health insurance would be paid for with other tax increases.

But Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Sen. McCain's senior policy adviser, said Sunday that the campaign has always planned to fund the tax credits, in part, with savings from Medicare and Medicaid. Those government health-care programs serve seniors, poor families and the disabled. Medicare spending for the fiscal year ended Sept. 30 is estimated at $457.5 billion.

Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the Medicare and Medicaid changes would improve the programs and eliminate fraud, but he didn't detail where the cuts would come from. "It's about giving them the benefit package that has been promised to them by law at lower cost," he said.

Both Sen. McCain and his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, have recently sought to refocus on health care. The issue once ranked at the top of voters' domestic concerns, but has in recent months been eclipsed by energy and the economy.

Sen. McCain charges that the Obama plan, which would create a government-run marketplace in which people could buy coverage, would lead to government-run health care. Sen. Obama charges that Sen. McCain's plan would leave many people unable to get insurance.

Sen. Obama's campaign turned up the volume in a major push on health care over the weekend with two days of attacks from the stump, four new television advertisements, a series of health-care events across the country and fliers to voters' homes in swing states.
[Chart]

Sen. Obama is focused on Sen. McCain's plan to offer a new tax credit of $2,500 per person and $5,000 per family toward insurance premiums. This would allow people to buy health coverage on the open market, where they may have more choices and might look for a better bargain.

In exchange, the government would begin taxing the value of health benefits people get through work. If an employer spends $10,000 to buy a worker health insurance, the worker would pay taxes on that money.

"It's a shell game," Sen. Obama told an outdoor rally of 28,000 people Sunday in Asheville, N.C. "Sen. McCain gives you a tax credit with one hand -- but raises your taxes with the other."

Sen. McCain's plan actually would lower taxes for most people. But that means the plan wouldn't pay for itself, because it cuts certain taxes more than it raises others.

The federal government imposes two taxes on wages, generally: an income tax, which funds the government's general operations, and the payroll tax, paid for by employers and employees, which funds Social Security and Medicare. If Sen. McCain were to apply both of these to the value of health benefits, he could fully pay for his new tax credits. That is what aides have in the past suggested he would do.

In April, when Sen. McCain gave a major speech about his health plan, Mr. Holtz-Eakin, the senior policy adviser, said the tax provisions alone were budget neutral -- meaning that health benefits would have to be subject to both income and payroll taxes.

Campaign officials have regularly implied since then that the tax plan was a wash. In the vice-presidential debate last week, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin described Sen. McCain's proposed tax credits and said: "That's budget neutral. That doesn't cost the government anything, as opposed to Barack Obama's plan to mandate health-care coverage and have this universal, government-run program."

Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the campaign never intended to apply the payroll tax to health benefits. That means that most people would see a net tax cut, contrary to Sen. Obama's assertions. Only those with very rich benefits packages are likely to see a net increase in taxes. But it also means that Sen. McCain must fill a huge budget hole -- which the campaign says will come from cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates.

Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the plan is accurately described as budget neutral because it assumes enough savings in Medicare and Medicaid spending to make up the difference. He said the savings would come from eliminating Medicare fraud and by reforming payment policies to lower the overall cost of care. He said the new tax credits will help some low-income people avoid joining Medicaid. The campaign also proposes increasing Medicare premiums for wealthier seniors.

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years and cover 34 million more people.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html

Wall Street Journal

DaDakota
10-07-2008, 08:08 AM
The only thing even keeping this thing marginally close is that Obama is half african american.

If Gore were running, McCain would be dead and buried.....and technically, he already is...

DD

101A
10-07-2008, 08:10 AM
A politician is actually admitting that Medicaid and Medicare need to be addressed? That within 20 years those, along with Social Security, will absorb 100% of our federal budget?

heresy.

Shastafarian
10-07-2008, 08:14 AM
A politician is actually admitting that Medicaid and Medicare need to be addressed? That within 20 years those, along with Social Security, will absorb 100% of our federal budget?

heresy.

Maybe he should just freeze all spending like he proposed :lmao

TomBrady
10-07-2008, 08:16 AM
Go tell the elderly that you're going to cut Medicaid and Medicare. See if you can get elected on that message.

byrontx
10-07-2008, 09:06 AM
If we imported doctors at the rate we have imported everything else the costs would go waaay down. The average office visit lasts seven minutes and costs $200 (over $1700 an hour). The labs seem to operate in regional monopoly status. When you are sick, do you get to choose between a no-frills hospital (the equivalent of Motel 6) and one offering more amenities (like a Hyatt)? I don't think that you do. I do not know how the system works but I suspect that where you go ends up being a place from which your doctor derives income.

I used to date some drug reps and they were all busy lining up speakers fees and doing other things to channel money to the doctors.

The system is sick and one reason is the doctors.

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:43 AM
The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, estimates that the McCain plan would cost the government $1.3 trillion over 10 years. The plan would allow as many as five million more people to have insurance, it estimates.

Sen. Obama also would rely on some Medicare savings to pay for his health-care plan, which would offer subsidies to help consumers pay for premiums. The Tax Policy Center estimates that his plan would cost $1.6 trillion over 10 years and cover 34 million more people.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html

Wall Street Journal

So let me see if I get this straight:

The Obama plan would cost 20% more, but cover 7 times more people?

That right there would start bringing down costs for everybody.

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:50 AM
If we imported doctors at the rate we have imported everything else the costs would go waaay down. The average office visit lasts seven minutes and costs $200 (over $1700 an hour). The labs seem to operate in regional monopoly status. When you are sick, do you get to choose between a no-frills hospital (the equivalent of Motel 6) and one offering more amenities (like a Hyatt)? I don't think that you do. I do not know how the system works but I suspect that where you go ends up being a place from which your doctor derives income.

I used to date some drug reps and they were all busy lining up speakers fees and doing other things to channel money to the doctors.

The system is sick and one reason is the doctors.

Doctors are going to be in for a shock when they suddenly have to start competing with the Chinese and Indians like everybody else.

Medical tourism.

1) Take western hospital administrators to, say, Thailand, or someplace where labor is cheap,
2) build a hospital and bring the level of technology and treatment up to western standards,
3) with regular independent audits.

You have now created a facility that can offer superior level of care, independent suites with dedicated nurses for each patient, at 1/5-1/2 the cost of similar surgeries and treatments in the US, even after you factor in airfare.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2234298

http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11919622

http://media.economist.com/images/20080816/CBB732.gif

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:51 AM
http://media.economist.com/images/20080816/CBB733.gif

Anti.Hero
10-07-2008, 09:51 AM
A politician is actually admitting that Medicaid and Medicare need to be addressed? That within 20 years those, along with Social Security, will absorb 100% of our federal budget?

heresy.


shhhhhh don't worry. We got it covered.

Anti.Hero
10-07-2008, 09:53 AM
How many billions a year does California spend on healthcare/education/and other services for illegals?

Honest Question.

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:54 AM
A politician is actually admitting that Medicaid and Medicare need to be addressed? That within 20 years those, along with Social Security, will absorb 100% of our federal budget?

heresy.

Straight line projections into the future assuming everything will continue trending the same way in 20 years as they are now? :nope

Such is not the way to make for good policies.

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:54 AM
How many billions a year does California spend on healthcare/education/and other services for illegals?

Honest Question.

How much do illegals end up paying into the California treasury?

Honest question.

Anti.Hero
10-07-2008, 09:56 AM
Go tell the elderly that you're going to cut Medicaid and Medicare. See if you can get elected on that message.

Exactly. No more tough love in Amerika. Tell everyone what they want to hear, gain power, and do whatever you want.

Is it too late to run for office?

RandomGuy
10-07-2008, 09:56 AM
How many billions a year does California spend on healthcare/education/and other services for illegals?

Honest Question.

When their children start college, graduate, get jobs, and have US citizens of their own, how much will that contribute to our economy?

Honest Question.