Presidential Debate #2 Blog

[JoeChalupa]

Come on Whottt. Get with reality. McCain did NOT win this.

[whottt]

What do you mean America is on crack?

I mean they are flat out fucking stupid if they can't see that every answer Obama gives is typical lawyer double talk.



America see's right through Obama and is going to vote for McCain, right?

If America still thinks Obama can implement any of his economic plan they are stupid.

If America thinks we can get off foreign Oil using nothing but wind and solar, without nuclear energy or putting off nuclear development, with severe drilling on OilAmerica(as we have now)restrictions is fucking ignorant.

If America thinks they are going to get a National Healthcare plan that isn't going to completely flatten our economy, America is fucking stupid.

Not a problem though...because America is not going to get a National Healthcare plan, that is a fucking pipedream in this economy.


Obama doesn't answer any questions...his entire platform is completely invalid and no one seems to notice. And he hasn't changed it much, which he should.


America is fucking stupid if they don't see it.

[ploto]

What these 2 debates have basically shown me is this- McCain is standing there apparently in shock that he is losing to Obama- a guy for whom he can not hide his contempt. It almost seems to me like he had no clue and he is pissed about it.

[Shastafarian]

I mean they are flat out fucking stupid if they can't see that every answer Obama gives is typical lawyer double talk.



If America still thinks Obama can implement any of his economic plan they are stupid.

If America thinks we can get off foreign Oil using nothing but wind and solar, without nuclear energy, with severe drilling restrictions America is fucking ignorant.

If America thinks they are going to get a National Healthcare plan that isn't going to completely flatten our economy, America is fucking stupid.


Obama doesn't answer any question...his entire platform is completely invalid and no one seems to notice.


America is fucking stupid if they don't see it.

Do you ever think you're wrong? Ever? Have you ever considered you're not god? I'm just wondering because I've never seen one single post from you that suggests you think you're fallible.

[JoeChalupa]

Not surprising but FoxNews public voting has McCain winning the debate 86% to 12%. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I mean they are flat out fucking stupid if they can't see that every answer Obama gives is typical lawyer double talk.



If America still thinks Obama can implement any of his economic plan they are stupid.

If America thinks we can get off foreign Oil using nothing but wind and solar, without nuclear energy or putting off nuclear development, with severe drilling on OilAmerica(as we have now)restrictions is fucking ignorant.

If America thinks they are going to get a National Healthcare plan that isn't going to completely flatten our economy, America is fucking stupid.

Not a problem though...because America is not going to get a National Healthcare plan, that is a fucking pipedream in this economy.


Obama doesn't answer any questions...his entire platform is completely invalid and no one seems to notice. And he hasn't changed it much, which he should.


America is fucking stupid if they don't see it.

But America isn't that stupid because they're going to vote in a landslide for McCain, right?

[whottt]

Fox News is about 75% in the tank for Obama, including Bill O'Reilly. Everyone but Greta and Hannity.

The fact that even McCain's own party doesn't really like him should be viewed as positive.

It's Bush's party you know.

[MannyIsGod]

Fox News is about 75% in the tank for Obama, including Bill O'Reilly. Everyone but Greta and Hannity.

The fact that even McCain's own party doesn't really like him should be viewed as positive.

It's Bush's party you know.

Well there is a liberal media conspiracy and we know that Fox News is right in the middle of the liberal news media so thats no surprise. But not to worry, McCain will still win in a landslide because America will see through all of this.

[Shastafarian]

Fox News is about 75% in the tank for Obama, including Bill O'Reilly. Everyone but Greta and Hannity.

The fact that even McCain's own party doesn't really like him should be viewed as positive.

It's Bush's party you know.

:lmao post of the year

[CuckingFunt]

I mean they are flat out fucking stupid if they can't see that every answer Obama gives is typical lawyer double talk.


If America still thinks Obama can implement any of his economic plan they are stupid.

If America thinks we can get off foreign Oil using nothing but wind and solar, without nuclear energy or putting off nuclear development, with severe drilling on OilAmerica(as we have now)restrictions is fucking ignorant.

If America thinks they are going to get a National Healthcare plan that isn't going to completely flatten our economy, America is fucking stupid.

Not a problem though...because America is not going to get a National Healthcare plant.


Obama doesn't answer any question...his entire platform is completely invalid and no one seems to notice.


America is fucking stupid if they don't see it.

I don't think that there are too many people who view a candidate's platform as being absolutely what will happen when/if they take office. Our political system doesn't work that way.

For example, I support Obama not because I believe his healthcare plan is going to magically go into effect when he's sworn in, or because I think we're magically going to cut our dependence on foreign oil when he's sworn in, but because I think it's important to have someone in the white house who is working towards the same things I support. I don't know that Obama will be able to implement all of his plans, in fact I'm quite skeptical that he'd be able to even come close, but that doesn't make what he wants to do any less genuine or any less important to me as a voter.

[MannyIsGod]

If nothing else tells me that Obama won tonight Whottt's posting sure as hell does.

[PixelPusher]

Fox News is about 75% in the tank for Obama, including Bill O'Reilly. Everyone but Greta and Hannity.

The fact that even McCain's own party doesn't really like him should be viewed as positive.

It's Bush's party you know.
Stages of Grief

1. Shock & Denial

2. Pain & Guilt

>3. Anger & Bargaining

4. Depression, Reflection, Loneliness

...

[Nbadan]

Stages of Grief

1. Shock & Denial

2. Pain & Guilt

>3. Anger & Bargaining

4. Depression, Reflection, Loneliness

...

:lol

[Shastafarian]

Oh my god I hope people are watching FauxNews right now. Gibb just bitch slapped Hannity about the guy he interviewed who also happens to be a huge anti-Semite. Wow that awesome.

[whottt]

But America isn't that stupid because they're going to vote in a landslide for McCain, right?


Right :tu

I don't think America is that stupid...it can't be that hard to see Obama bullshits his way through everything.

He does it well...but he's still bullshitting.


I don't like all of McCain's answers...but at least they are answers.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Whottt's calmed down, probably went to rub one out to a picture of Palin. Those first few posts were bordering on epic meltdown status. Nov 5 is going to be soooooooo much fun in here.

[whottt]

If nothing else tells me that Obama won tonight Whottt's posting sure as hell does.



I've posted in these threads at the end of every debate.


I don't read the thread during the debate because I already know the verdict of the thread. Every thread. Just like I know who's going to be posting in it.


Nothing new...

[baseline bum]

Death
Taxes
Whottt's denial of reality

[CuckingFunt]

I've posted in these threads at the end of every debate.


I don't read the thread during the debate because I already know the verdict of the thread. Every thread. Just like I know who's going to be posting in it.


Nothing new...

I think Manny was referring to the fact that your meltdown vein was throbbing hard enough to be visible across the interwebs, not merely your presence in this thread.

[wireonfire]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate/t1land.debate.03.ap.jpg

[whottt]

:lmao

Whottt's calmed down, probably went to rub one out to a picture of Palin. Those first few posts were bordering on epic meltdown status. Nov 5 is going to be soooooooo much fun in here.

Nah dude...I just can't believe all the bullshit.


Main thing...I realize now that beyond all doubt I am smarter than every journalist in America because if I hear one more of these idiots saying that mortgage refinancing plan for distressed homeowners is some kind new spending plan, I am going to go spit in their face. That's what the 700 billion is for to allow the govt to do that, that's always been a part of it...given that the plan is approved, and the 700 billion is most likely already spent, all of it, it's the one thing about that fucking plan that is going to benefit the American people...and it's beats the hell out of foreclosing on all those mortages. It's not socialism...passing the fucking bill was socialism. That refinancing plan is the thing that's going to up the value of those pieces of crap so they can become investments and be sellable. Plus it will lower the housepayments for millions of Americans.

Whole night was full of stuff like that...McCain gave speciffics and Obama talked in circles making no commitments.

And McCain even put a chink in the healthcare plan(not that it's feasible in our current economy anyway) and no one cares...


What about those fees if you aren't providing insurance...that's coercion.

[Trainwreck2100]

She's likely going to be the first lady and you feel sorry for her because you think she's ugly?

Our views on beauty are really fucked up.



And I'm not even going to touch the knuckle dragging.

The first lady's job is to sit there and look pretty

[MannyIsGod]

Nah dude...I just can't believe all the bullshit.


Main thing...I realize now that beyond all doubt I am smarter than every journalist in America because if I hear one more of these idiots saying that mortgage refinancing plan for distressed homeowners is some kind new spending plan, I am going to go spit in their face. That's what the 700 billion is for to allow the govt to do that, that's always been a part of it...given that the plan is approved, and the 700 billion is most likely already spent, all of it, it's the one thing about that fucking plan that is going to benefit the American people...and it's beats the hell out of foreclosing on all those mortages. It's not socialism...passing the fucking bill was socialism. That refinancing plan is the thing that's going to up the value of those pieces of crap so they can become investments and be sellable. Plus it will lower the housepayments for millions of Americans.

Whole night was full of stuff like that...McCain gave speciffics and Obama talked in circles making no commitments.

And McCain even put a chink in the healthcare plan(not that it's feasible in our current economy anyway) and no one cares...


What about those fees if you aren't providing insurance...that's coercion.

I know you're not smarter because thats not what the plan is at all.

[ElNono]

Right :tu

I don't think America is that stupid...it can't be that hard to see Obama bullshits his way through everything.

He does it well...but he's still bullshitting.


I don't like all of McCain's answers...but at least they are answers.

Even if Obama is spewing shit, McCain has absolutely not even tried expose the bullshit. He keeps on ranting on pork spending and his tax breaks. Like somebody said earlier, his last 4 months infomercial. Shit, the campaign even sent Palin to throw shit to the fan because it has become obvious that McSenile won't do it.

And that's not Obama's fault. It's entirely on McCain shoulders.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Nah dude...I just can't believe all the bullshit.


Main thing...I realize now that beyond all doubt I am smarter than every journalist in America because if I hear one more of these idiots saying that mortgage refinancing plan for distressed homeowners is some kind new spending plan, I am going to go spit in their face. That's what the 700 billion is for to allow the govt to do that, that's always been a part of it...given that the plan is approved, and the 700 billion is most likely already spent, all of it, it's the one thing about that fucking plan that is going to benefit the American people...and it's beats the hell out of foreclosing on all those mortages.

O RLY?



John McCain has proposed a new "HOME Plan" to provide robust, timely and targeted help to those hurt by the housing crisis. Under his HOME Plan, every deserving American family or homeowner will be afforded the opportunity to trade a burdensome mortgage for a manageable loan that reflects their home's market value.

* Eligibility: Holders of a sub-prime mortgage taken after 2005 who live in their home (primary residence only); can prove creditworthiness at the time of the original loan; are either delinquent, in arrears on payments, facing a reset or otherwise demonstrate that they will be unable to continue to meet their mortgage obligations; and can meet the terms of a new 30 year fixed-rate mortgage on the existing home.

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I just saw a full replay of the moment with the "thank you" and the "bomb bomb bomb"

Holy shit McCain's smile and laugh went to a frown sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fast when he saw the home run Obama had just hit. You couldn't have scripted that much better for Barack.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Oh, I'm sorry.

I forgot to link that quote.

McCain's plan not part of $700B bailout. (http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/relief.htm)

You may not want to click it, though. It's a biased information provider.

[MannyIsGod]

McCAin probably pissed off a good deal of his base with that bullshit plan btw.

[Warlord23]

People, people ... stop owning whottt already. It's getting old, and the fucker is this close to complete lunacy

[tp2021]

Man, I just saw a full replay of the moment with the "thank you" and the "bomb bomb bomb"

Holy shit McCain's smile and laugh went to a frown sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fast when he saw the home run Obama had just hit. You couldn't have scripted that much better for Barack.

I missed it Manny. What happened?

[MannyIsGod]

I missed it Manny. What happened?

I'm really trying to find a youtube of it but its going to be on the news quite a bit without a doubt because it was the strongest moment for Obama all night.

[SpursFanFirst]

Man, I just saw a full replay of the moment with the "thank you" and the "bomb bomb bomb"

Holy shit McCain's smile and laugh went to a frown sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fast when he saw the home run Obama had just hit. You couldn't have scripted that much better for Barack.

This same thing actually happened with Obama as well.
I wish I could remember what was said at that moment, but in the beginning of McCain's answer, Obama had a huge grin on his face...but as McCain went on that smile quickly faded.

I almost said something when it happened.
I wish I had now.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm really trying to find a youtube of it but its going to be on the news quite a bit without a doubt because it was the strongest moment for Obama all night.

I don't know if this link will work, but I'm pretty sure this is the full video.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27076341#27076995

If not, go to MSNBC's kick-ass video player (no sarcasm, it really rocks) and find "Chasing America's Enemies."

[MannyIsGod]

http://mediacurves.com/images/SecondPresDebate.gif

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Obama: You're doing a great job, Tom.

Look, I -- I want to be very clear about what I said. Nobody called for the invasion of Pakistan. Sen. McCain continues to repeat this.

What I said was the same thing that the audience here today heard me say, which is, if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down bin Laden and take him out, then we should.

Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans.

Now, Sen. McCain suggests that somehow, you know, I'm green behind the ears and, you know, I'm just spouting off, and he's somber and responsible.

McCain: Thank you very much.

Obama: Sen. McCain, this is the guy who sang, "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," who called for the annihilation of North Korea. That I don't think is an example of "speaking softly."

This is the person who, after we had -- we hadn't even finished Afghanistan, where he said, "Next up, Baghdad."

[Buddy Holly]

This same thing actually happened with Obama as well.
I wish I could remember what was said at that moment, but in the beginning of McCain's answer, Obama had a huge grin on his face...but as McCain went on that smile quickly faded.

I almost said something when it happened.
I wish I had now.

It must have been very memorable, huh?

[Warlord23]

^^ Ownage by Obama right there ... that really took the wind out of McCain's sails

Edit: Referring to JB's post

[MannyIsGod]

I can't wait till that hits youtube so I can post it. It was such a good moment for Obama.

[Trainwreck2100]

Edit: Referring to JB's post

no shit

[MannyIsGod]

6f4xWorprhM

The five minute mark of this video. go go go go

[MannyIsGod]

Damn, you honestly couldn't have scripted that up any better. McCAin is rude and interupts, is smug and laughing and he gets bitch slapped. Wow man. Great moment for Obama.

[SpursFanFirst]

It must have been very memorable, huh?

Actually, I was watching the debate at work, so I didn't memorize every second of the debate.
But I distinctly remember it happening.

[whottt]

I know you're not smarter because thats not what the plan is at all.


:lmao

Whatever makes you feel good dude.

#1. The inability to do that was one of the reasons the Paulson plan was rejected.

#2. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac just got taken over by the government...guess what they do?

#3. How in the hell did you think they were going to stabilize all those bad mortgages or make the mortgage backed securities resellable?


Obama would speak and people would instantly be able to make their housepayments? :lol


Or better yet, have the lenders and mortgage holders foreclose on those mortgages and sell the houses at rockbottom prices?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

:wtf I don't see how anyone can say Obama won this debate. He didn't answer shit. And everything he says has holes in it.

Yeah it wasn't grandslam for McCain but Obama didn't asnwer any questions. The dude talks in complete fucking circles and never gives a definitive answer.

And McCain owned him on that Health Care fee question.


America is on crack. I can't believe people can't see Obama never answers any questions.

Whottt come ON dude....wtf are you on lately
NEITHER candidate answers questions....the whole point of who does better than who is about who decides to break their veil of vaugeness the most to make the american people see things their way.
Both of them answer shit like chodes, IMO. But Obama's use of Bomb Iran was like an 8.5, coulda been better.



I don't konw if this has been discussed in this thread yet because its so large (thats what she said) but anyone notice how Obama was finally not talking in his stupid disjointed manner tonight? He actually had some sort of flow to his speaking. I noticed this within minutes of the debate. Seeing as how this debate was a "tie" now that Obama has mysteriously found the ability to talk like a normal person he will win the debate by a bigger margin than he won the first.
My real question is....wtf or htf did Obama talking like a normal person come about? As if he just realized the way he was talking before made him sound like an idiot?

I know his crew watched the internet blogs.....my opinion is he either had a drink or smoked a J before the debate.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I can't wait till that hits youtube so I can post it. It was such a good moment for Obama.
It could have been better. Tell me you weren't BEGGING for him to bring this up when McCain was blabbering about Herbert Hoover and his soft speaking...ROFL.

I really wish Obama could deliver off the cusp zings like he can deliver a speech. If that were the case McCain would be officially B L O A D E D after tonight. But he did still nail him, although not as hard as he could have. I guess its just the democrat way.

[whottt]

O RLY?


Yes really:




September 21st:
House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank, speaking Sunday morning on "Face the Nation," gave the flavor of what Democrats will demand, if they hang tough: An economic stimulus to go with the Wall Street bailout; more refinancing help for borrowers; and some limits on windfall gains to corporate executives. These provisions would improve the bill, and Democrats would win either way: if they were included, more help would be on the way to working families. If they lost, and the bill passed without these provisions, it would make crystal clear the difference between the parties.




http://www.alternet.org/workplace/99866/calling_paulson's_bluff/


Maybe when you guys get caught up with and begin to understand your own party's plans you can start to pay attention to McCain's?

[Anti.Hero]

6f4xWorprhM

The five minute mark of this video. go go go go



http://www.drkrm.com/stake.jpg

[whottt]

How do you guys think they're planning on stabilizing all those bad mortgages, Osmosis?


Hope?


Si Si Puede?

[ALWAYS bet on BLACK]

race traitors

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Perhaps someone from mensa can explain to me exactly what whottt is ranting about, because i dont get it.

[MannyIsGod]

How do you guys think they're planning on stabilizing all those bad mortgages, Osmosis?


Hope?


Si Si Puede?

No dumbass, the bailout wasn't ABOUT fixing the mortgages it was about fixing the lack of liquidity in the market leading to a freezing of credit availability. The government wasn't interested in making sure everyone stayed in their home if they defaulted on the loan, they were just interested in getting the loans off the books of the banks and investment institutions.

Jesus Christ I understand your lack of reality with the results of the race but can you at least not declare yourself the smartest man in America without understanding the intent of the legislation you're commenting on?

If you don't pay your mortgage the government will foreclose on you just like a bank but the point is that its not the banks problem any longer.

And don't you think its really fucking stupid to be posting what the politicians WANTED in the legislation when the legislation itself is available? It doesn't matter what I want for Christmas when its New Years, I can just tell you what I actually got.

[whottt]

Oh, I'm sorry.

I forgot to link that quote.

McCain's plan not part of $700B bailout. (http://www.johnmccain.com/Issues/JobsforAmerica/relief.htm)

You may not want to click it, though. It's a biased information provider.


RIF from your own link:


John McCain's HOME Plan Will Keep 200,000 To 400,000 Families From Losing Their Homes. "But at the same time, McCain is calling for aggressive federal action to help keep 200,000 to 400,000 families from losing their homes. That plan has many of the elements of a proposal by Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., requiring participating lenders to forgive part of the loan principal and then write a new loan that would be backed by the federal government through the Federal Housing Administration." (Tom Raum, "Everyone's Invited: McCain Economic Plan Draws From Both Parties," Tucson Citizen, 4/17/08)

[MannyIsGod]

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK MCCAIN IS NOW PROPOSING THAT??

Because it never fucking happened before.

[Anti.Hero]

They did the same thing in Europe ("bail out") and the banks just took the capital and stashed it away to cover their asses :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

They did the same thing in Europe ("bail out") and the banks just took the capital and stashed it away to cover their asses :lmao

Krugman wrote in his blog today that Britian basically took over a good portion of their banking system and the markets reacted much better. When I learned tonight that AIG had a fucking 400k junket I pretty much came to the conclusion giving these assholes more money is just not the right course of action. They're so ingrained in this way of running things they will not make good use of it. There has to be serious accountability for the way they run things, and I think a take over might be the only way to make much of this happen.

[Anti.Hero]

I don't know if you are watching the hearings but they had a guy from AIG that took hundreds of millions and he is dropping "I wake up every night and wonder what I could have done..." & "I am heart-broken" lines. It's ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know if you are watching the hearings but they had a guy from AIG that took hundreds of millions and he is dropping "I wake up every night and wonder what I could have done..." & "I am heart-broken" lines. It's ridiculous.

Its fucking Enron all over again. These execs are just so fucking out of touch and I'd wager most of them couldn't give two shits about the actual fundementals of their companies just the stock prices and how much compensation they get. They're too fucking detached.

[tp2021]

Perhaps someone from mensa can explain to me exactly what whottt is ranting about, because i dont get it.
Do you think they know what it means in spanish?

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

RIF from your own link:

RIF from your own quote.



(Tom Raum, "Everyone's Invited: McCain Economic Plan Draws From Both Parties," Tucson Citizen, 4/17/08)


He knew the bailout was coming 6 months in advance?

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

Anyone else count the "My friends" mentions?
17

[whottt]

No dumbass, the bailout wasn't ABOUT fixing the mortgages it was about fixing the lack of liquidity in the market leading to a freezing of credit availability.

Um...dumbass, do you realize that money can be used to purchase mortgages, do you realize the government will then own the mortgages and be able to do whatever they want with them?

In addition, do you realize they just took over Fannie and Freddie?

I see, mean what do you think the main things they are going to be purchasing with that money are?

Do you have any idea at all?



[Hint: The government would prefer not to buy a bunch of toilet paper if possible, since they just Nationalized the secondary mortgage holders and guarantors for several trillion dollars worth of faulty fucking mortgages...it doesn't take a fucking genius to figure out the #1 way to do that.


PS: Foreclosing is about stupidest thing they could do in a depressed economy. It makes much more sense to refinance those loans, they can make a hell of a lot more money long term off the re-financing, and it ups the value and the resellability the mortgage backed securties they have.


But what I do know...I was just a Real Estate Agent 2 years ago, and a Series 7 test away from being a strockbroker, last summer...


But beyond all that, I possess the genius to read articles on why they threw the original Paulson bill out....because he could give that money away in whatever way he wanted, with no conditions, on whichever debt he wanted...and now he can't, that's all the language they needed to be able to do this.












The government wasn't interested in making sure everyone stayed in their home if they defaulted on the loan, they were just interested in getting the loans off the books of the banks and investment institutions.


Um...they sure as hell were, that's one of the main reasons the first proposal by Paul was shot down.

Sin,

Barney Frank




Jesus Christ I understand your lack of reality with the results of the race but can you at least not declare yourself the smartest man in America without understanding the intent of the legislation you're commenting on?

If you don't pay your mortgage the government will foreclose on you just like a bank but the point is that its not the banks problem any longer.

PSST: Real Estate 101, nothing kills the value of homes like foreclosing, not the just the foreclosed homes, but all the homes surrounding them.

In addition, credit and down payment reqa for new home owners is going up now, after it was extremely easy...exactly who are they going to sell all these foreclosed homes too? All the people that couldn't do it when it was easier? Yeah...that's a way to prevent more of the shitty mortgages that got us into this mess.




And don't you think its really fucking stupid to be posting what the politicians WANTED in the legislation when the legislation itself is available? It doesn't matter what I want for Christmas when its New Years, I can just tell you what I actually got.

They got it.

[MannyIsGod]

They didn't get it. Thats the point as to why McCain was proposing it tonight. As it stands, the government has no authority to refinance those loans. Thats all thats needed to point out how many holes your argument has.

[whottt]

RIF from your own quote.



He knew the bailout was coming 6 months in advance?


Paulson on Dec 3rd 2007:

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/hp706.htm


BTW, thanks for pointing out it wasn't new, which was my entire point...

That makes 2 of us...now you and I just have to let every journalist in the United States know it isn't new...and they'll be as smart as we are :tu

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt thinks he's smarter than the guy he wants in office too



McCain pledges to buy up 300 bln in US home loans

3 hours ago
NASHVILLE, Tennessee (AFP) — The US government would snap up 300 billion dollars of bad home loans, Republican John McCain vowed Tuesday unveiling a new plan to help struggling homeowners if he is elected president.
"People are no longer able to afford their mortgage payments," said McCain as he laid out what he billed as an original proposal for addressing the grassroots impact of the Wall Street credit crisis.
"As president of the United States, I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes, at the diminished value of those homes," he said.
Doing so would enable struggling homeowners to meet their mortgage payments and stay in their homes, he told the second of three presidential debates with Democratic rival Barack Obama.


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iZlX-oPUxq61CtVONwtfxDUMRPDw

[whottt]

They didn't get it. Thats the point as to why McCain was proposing it tonight. As it stands, the government has no authority to refinance those loans. Thats all thats needed to point out how many holes your argument has.

Um...they've got 700 billion dollars worth of authority. How much more do they need? They decide on the terms that 700 billion is going to be used.


Furthermore, they can refinance any loan they own, which since they just took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is a shitload. And as it pertains to the 700 billion, mortgages are the main thing they are going to be purchasing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Assets_Relief_Program

[whottt]

Whottt thinks he's smarter than the guy he wants in office too




http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iZlX-oPUxq61CtVONwtfxDUMRPDw

What do you mean thinks?


Ok Manny, John McCain is the first one to suggest this and tonight was the first time anyone has mentioned it.


Happy now?

[mouse]

Right :tu

I don't think America is that stupid...it can't be that hard to see Obama bullshits his way through everything.

He does it well...but he's still bullshitting.


After 8 years of Bush old habits are hard to break.

[whottt]

So just to summarize:

whottt says: He is smarter than every journalist in the United States(which doesn't mean a great deal if you think about it) since they are all calling this housing plan new.

Johnny Blaze: posts link to McCain's own site that proves it's not new.

whottt: posts link to Barney Frank comment to prove it's not new(and was something congress wanted to do with the bailout from the getgo).

whottt: posts link to Paulson article to prove it's not new.


Manny: calls whottt a dumbass and smartass and quotes an article that features a journalist saying...

You guessed it:


It's new



Sigh.


Funniest part is McCain hi-jacked a Democrat idea(one of the few good ones recently) right out from under Obama's nose and Obama didn't even realize he was doing it.

And BTW, the people on the verge of losing their homes are going to love this idea. And everyone is going to be calling it smart(all things considered) in a few days, because it kills 3 bird with one stone...but one thing it won't be, is new.

[timvp]

I just finished watching the debate. It was interesting because you could see the two totally different strategies at work. Obama was obviously debating as if he had a substantial lead in the polls, while McCain debated like he had to score a knockout punch. McCain didn't land anything close to a knockout punch so you have to chalk this up as an Obama victory.

I though McCain had his moments. He started off strong and he had some good moments near the end. He's actually pretty damn good at the town hall format. His interaction with the audience comes across as natural and he does a good job of trying to answer the questions. Although it does hurt him pretty substantially that he moves like a robot without enough lube. He lost his composure a few times and that "we'll help you with your mortgage" routine rang hollow and sounded like a lie but overall, he gave a valiant effort.

Obama just did what he had to do. He was like a boxer with a reach advantage near the end of the fight who knew he was in the lead on the scorecards that just kept his opponent at bay. He'd counter punch when McCain left himself vulnerable but then he'd back away and go back into defensive mode. It was a safe strategy that focused mostly on protection with a few power punches of his own to keep McCain from being able to tee off.

But seriously, Obama was very Sarah Palin-esque during the debate. He only had a set amount of talking points he'd go to and he wouldn't stray off of those talking points. The result is he hardly ever answered any question directly. He'd answer the questions by using the talking point that was the most closely related to the question -- which is what Palin did for the most part. The difference is Obama is a lawyer who can talk his way around a topic to give the illusion that he answered the question, while Palin had to use other less polished means to avoid the questions. But an Obama supported who blasted Palin can't honestly sit there and praise Obama when he just did the same damn thing. In fact, I'd say he answered less questions directly than even Palin did. It was a very good strategy by Obama and it worked perfectly but I'm interested in seeing how many Obama supporters will admit the similarities. I won't hold my breath.

Like I've said before, I'm damn impressed by the craftiness of the Democrats this time around. They're orchestrating this final push perfectly so far. Obama didn't even give McCain a chance to win this debate. He came in prepared with a very good strategy and it was over. Very few of McCain's punches landed ... and even those were glancing blows.

My one real complaint about Obama is he would frustrate me when he'd have McCain on the ropes and then he'd start bumbling his words. I lost count of how many mixed metaphors and just plain wrong words he said. He could have destroyed McCain around the time he dropped the "bomb bomb Iran" line but he dropped the ball when he went with green behind the ears instead of wet behind the ears. That just made him sound dumb. The other one that stuck out to me was near the end was when Obama was rolling with his "I'm a product of America and I'm thankful" thoughts but then he F'ed it up by saying country instead of world.

Thankfully for Obama he didn't have to connect on those barbs. He did well enough just keeping McCain from doing anything of note. Technically I'd say McCain was much better than Obama at connecting with the audience (Obama had a vibe as if he was the teacher and the audience were the students ... which isn't the way town hall debates should feel) and McCain was better at actually answering questions directly, but Obama has to be considered the winner.

[florige]

SO what is "my Friends" his new catch phrase. I didn't hear Maverick one time.

:lol Bush really fucked shit up for the Republicans this time around.

[ratm1221]

I didn't get the feeling at all like McCain was natural. His jokes seemed uncomfortable, and he came across patronizing. He spoke down to the crowd instead of to the crowd with comments like "you've probably never even heard of Fannie Mae before this crisis" or "they like to call them "Medical Errors"." He also came across as an asshole when he kept walking around and acting like he wasn't paying attention or motioning to someone in the crowd while his opponent was speaking. Obama sat right there and listened intently while McCain had the floor.

[Shastafarian]

How about John McCain last night HHEEEEHHHH? HHEEHHHH?

0r8hhShMyZw

[Findog]

All I know is that ONLY John McCain has the courage to get to the bottom of OVERHEAD PROJECTOR-GATE. Just like he's the ONLY candidate who has the courage to do something about Bear Semen Subsidies!

[Findog]

John McCain: "My friends, when I'm President, I'll stand up for you and do something about all this bear jizz. Senator Obama voted FOR bear jizz. That's not the kind of on the job training we can afford in these troubled times."

[RandomGuy]

McCain's "my friends" really started to get on my nerves.

Both candidates have their verbal tics, but I really hate it when a guy who is interviewing with me for a job he wants tries to buddy up to me.

[Findog]

Overhead Projector My Friends Tip O'neill My Friends We Can Do It Again Ronald Reagan My Friends

[SpursFanFirst]

SO what is "my Friends" his new catch phrase. I didn't hear Maverick one time.

:lol Bush really fucked shit up for the Republicans this time around.

How are you going to blame this on Bush?

If the Republican party had someone representing them that was worth anything, it wouldn't matter WHO was in office right now.

[Soul_Patch]

John McCain reminds me of my grandpa trying to argue out there. He believes strongly in what he stands for, but cant articulate worth a shit, so he go's back to his catch phrases, and old stand by's.

I got extremely annoyed at all the 'my friends' BS, sounded almost condescending...i dont know you bitch, im not your friend.

I thought all of the "good ol boy" from the Mil-tary talk was annoying too..."My friends, i called up General Petreius just yesterday, we discussed this..." shut the hell up..."Ol Col. Bustinass is blowin up my cell right now, he wants to meet down at the VFW hall after this..." whatever dude, we get it...you are a veteran, your old, ok...now what?

I dunno, McCain's demeanor really turns me off, i honestly fastforwarded (DVR) through a lot of his responses after a while, because they were like nails on a chalk board to me. 90% of his responses were tinged with trying to smear Obama, and about 10% of the time was spent skirting around the actual questions. I dont give a shit about earmarks...you guys blowing cash on your home states doesnt really affect me at all, how about stop the 10 billion dollar a month gusher into Iraq, and that alone would make the earmarks look like childs play. Once again, he go's to what he knows, which is completely disconnected from what really matters to Joe voter on the street.

I was very much in the middle early in this campaign, but Obama seems so clear and concise and on point with his plans, im definately leaning far left now.

[timvp]

How are you going to blame this on Bush?

If the Republican party had someone representing them that was worth anything, it wouldn't matter WHO was in office right now.Disagree immensely.

[SpursFanFirst]

Disagree immensely.

I think McCain is responsible for his own downfall at this point-
His demeanor, his voting record, his VP pick, etc.

I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans out there that could have separated themselves from Bush.

Not everything is Bush's fault.
I get so tired of that same excuse.

[clambake]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate/t1land.debate.03.ap.jpg

look at that picture.

epic.

[RandomGuy]

How are you going to blame this on Bush?

If the Republican party had someone representing them that was worth anything, it wouldn't matter WHO was in office right now.

Seriously?

This election was lost by Bush about 3 years ago.

"good job Brownie, I'm goin back to my ranch"

"I think Harriet Myers would be a great supreme court justice"

"Iraq is goin' great, we'll find them WMD's anytime now..."

Bush is the albatross around the Republican party's neck. It didn't matter WHO got the nod from the GOP primaries, all the Democrats had to do was to paint them in the same corner as Bush.

[clambake]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate/t1land.debate.03.ap.jpg

this picture deserves it's own thread.

[MannyIsGod]

How are you going to blame this on Bush?

If the Republican party had someone representing them that was worth anything, it wouldn't matter WHO was in office right now.\

Sorry but yeah fucking right.

[Lance]

If Obama wins it may be due to Republicans that don't show up to vote.

[gameFACE]

Obama handled himself well. Despite the usual stuttering he showed he could connect as well as McCain does in this format. Town hall style meetings might suit McCain fine but only if he’s there by himself. When the old guy actually has to debate someone this format doesn’t work in his advantage. If there had been three of these things he would have been crushed.

I started listening to the debate on the radio about an hour into the debate. They were going about on the whole Teddy Roosevelt/green behind the ears/bomb bomb Iran bit. It played much much harsher on the radio than when I saw the whole thing on tv. Great comeback by Obama.

[RandomGuy]

Obama handled himself well. Despite the usual stuttering he showed he could connect as well as McCain does in this format. Town hall style meetings might suit McCain fine but only if he’s there by himself. When the old guy actually has to debate someone this format doesn’t work in his advantage. If there had been three of these things he would have been crushed.

I started listening to the debate on the radio about an hour into the debate. They were going about on the whole Teddy Roosevelt/green behind the ears/bomb bomb Iran bit. It played much much harsher on the radio than when I saw the whole thing on tv. Great comeback by Obama.

I swear watching McCain here put the image of him in shorts, black socks, and sandals saying "you kids get off my lawn".

As much as I respect my cranky neighbor Phil, I couldn't see such a guy running the country.

I watched a video of one of his stump performances, and almost thought it was the old Penguin villain from the 60's Batman show.

"Wah wah wah, I'm a bird of a different feather, wah wah wah..."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Penguin1BurgessMeredith.jpg

[Al Gore]

RandomGuy the last Comic Standing?

[RandomGuy]

Obama handled himself well. Despite the usual stuttering he showed he could connect as well as McCain does in this format. Town hall style meetings might suit McCain fine but only if he’s there by himself. When the old guy actually has to debate someone this format doesn’t work in his advantage. If there had been three of these things he would have been crushed.

I started listening to the debate on the radio about an hour into the debate. They were going about on the whole Teddy Roosevelt/green behind the ears/bomb bomb Iran bit. It played much much harsher on the radio than when I saw the whole thing on tv. Great comeback by Obama.

McCain wanted to go nuclear, as his aides have been telling him to do, and he got a helping of the nasty crap he has been dishing out.

That "bomb bomb bomb Iran" bit was particularly effective. Obama has, for whatever reason, kept from mentioning it, and finally decided to go for the jugular there.

I ALMOST felt sorry for McCain, but the guy brought it on himself.

[gameFACE]

He didn't expect Obama to give him the chorizo back with the bomb bomb Iran bit.

[timvp]

But seriously, Obama was very Sarah Palin-esque during the debate. He only had a set amount of talking points he'd go to and he wouldn't stray off of those talking points. The result is he hardly ever answered any question directly. He'd answer the questions by using the talking point that was the most closely related to the question -- which is what Palin did for the most part. The difference is Obama is a lawyer who can talk his way around a topic to give the illusion that he answered the question, while Palin had to use other less polished means to avoid the questions. But an Obama supported who blasted Palin can't honestly sit there and praise Obama when he just did the same damn thing. In fact, I'd say he answered less questions directly than even Palin did. It was a very good strategy by Obama and it worked perfectly but I'm interested in seeing how many Obama supporters will admit the similarities. I won't hold my breath.No Obama supporter is going to touch this subject?

:stirpot:

[Shastafarian]

No Obama supporter is going to touch this subject?

:stirpot:

That's because you posted your opinion. What are we supposed to do? Get into a huge argument with you about how we both disagree? Then after 4 pages of trying to convince one another we wind up at square one. Sounds like a blast!

[clambake]

No Obama supporter is going to touch this subject?

:stirpot:

one's intelligence is leaps and bounds above the other.

if they'd have gone head to head, she would be mincemeat.

he did provide an answer to something that has bothered me for years. he is the one that can inspire other countries to work for a global solution on terror. their citizens will expect their leaders to get involved. the crowds he drew cannot be ignored. their citizens will insist they engage with obama.

for god's sake timvp, mccain thinks spain is an enemy.

[timvp]

That's because you posted your opinion. What are we supposed to do? Get into a huge argument with you about how we both disagree? Then after 4 pages of trying to convince one another we wind up at square one. Sounds like a blast!If people stopped responding other people's opinions, the political forum would be empty.

[TomBrady]

No Obama supporter is going to touch this subject?

:stirpot:


I didn't care for his meandering around direct questions. Now's the time for specifics, not to recite your stump speeches.

Fundamentally though, Obama knows what he's talking about and he isn't not answering questions because he lacks knowledge......it's purely political. Not saying I agree with that tactic, but it's a lot different from Palin who refuses to answer questions because she flat out does not know the answers and in many cases does not even understand the question.

[SpursFanFirst]

so, for those who disagree with my McCain-Bush comment, namely Timvp...
I know you've been on the fence until fairly recently.
When you were considering voting for McCain, did you think he actually had a chance to beat out Obama regardless of his comparison to Bush?

[ElNono]

No Obama supporter is going to touch this subject?

:stirpot:

I think that was part of his strategy, as you pointed out pretty well. I think he realizes that so far those points have worked well for him, so why go somewhere else? If there was somebody that needed to change tactics, it was McCain, and it didn't happen.

[timvp]

one's intelligence is leaps and bounds above the other.Probably so. But doesn't make the tactic any different.


if they'd have gone head to head, she would be mincemeat.What does that have to do with anything?


he did provide an answer to something that has bothered me for years. he is the one that can inspire other countries to work for a global solution on terror. their citizens will expect their leaders to get involved. the crowds he drew cannot be ignored. their citizens will insist they engage with obama.Link to the question that would require that answer?


for god's sake timvp, mccain thinks spain is an enemy.Nah I think McCain is just really bad at sarcasm.

[timvp]

so, for those who disagree with my McCain-Bush comment, namely Timvp...
I know you've been on the fence until fairly recently.
When you were considering voting for McCain, did you think he actually had a chance to beat out Obama regardless of his comparison to Bush?Highly doubtful. Regardless of candidates, the Democrats had at least a 75/25 chance of winning this election based solely on Bush's approval ratings and the economic mess.

Maybe even 80/20.

[clambake]

Probably so. But doesn't make the tactic any different.
why expose something you've got stuffed in your sleeve when you can save it for later?


What does that have to do with anything?
i was just going along with the comparison parameters you suggested.


Link to the question that would require that answer?
i don't think it was a specific question but was steered into "talking with our enemies" proposition.


Nah I think McCain is just really bad at sarcasm.
you obviously didn't hear the reporters interview of mccain when he suggested that, without sarcasm.

[timvp]

I didn't care for his meandering around direct questions. Now's the time for specifics, not to recite your stump speeches.

Fundamentally though, Obama knows what he's talking about and he isn't not answering questions because he lacks knowledge......it's purely political. Not saying I agree with that tactic, but it's a lot different from Palin who refuses to answer questions because she flat out does not know the answers and in many cases does not even understand the question.Quality post. Tom Brady's best yet :tu

[timvp]

I think that was part of his strategy, as you pointed out pretty well. I think he realizes that so far those points have worked well for him, so why go somewhere else? If there was somebody that needed to change tactics, it was McCain, and it didn't happen.McCain changed tactics ... it just didn't work because Obama wouldn't let it work.

[MannyIsGod]

so, for those who disagree with my McCain-Bush comment, namely Timvp...
I know you've been on the fence until fairly recently.
When you were considering voting for McCain, did you think he actually had a chance to beat out Obama regardless of his comparison to Bush?

No matter who was nominated by the Dems, and no matter who was nominated by the GOP, the starts were in place. The dems were going to tie whoever it was to Bush. I mean look at the growth in the democratic party and look at the 06 elections.

I think most of the objective posters in here knew that no matter who the GOP nominated they were going to have a hell of time to even be competitive in this environment.

[ElNono]

McCain changed tactics ... it just didn't work because Obama wouldn't let it work.

I think he went new areas here and there, like bringing up the mortgage buying plan, that sounded more like a desperate reach to see if he could clamp some independent voters here and there. But I'll say 80% of the answers where the same talking points he's been putting out for the last 4 months. I don't think he's making any strides against Obama, and that's exactly what he needs to do if he wants to have a chance.

[timvp]

why expose something you've got stuffed in your sleeve when you can save it for later?If Palin should get bashed for not answering questions, why not Obama?


i don't think it was a specific question but was steered into "talking with our enemies" proposition.That same steering was unacceptable last Thursday to many.


you obviously didn't hear the reporters interview of mccain when he suggested that, without sarcasm.Even a senile McCain wouldn't actually think Spain is an enemy as in the U.S. needs to invade Spain.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

That's because you posted your opinion. What are we supposed to do? Get into a huge argument with you about how we both disagree? Then after 4 pages of trying to convince one another we wind up at square one. Sounds like a blast!
:lmao

doesn't that jackassery happen in here already?
oh let me state differently. that jackassery happens in here already.


there.
end of discussion

:rolleyes

[Shastafarian]

:lmao

doesn't that jackassery happen in here already?
oh let me state differently. that jackassery happens in here already.


Yes and that's why I personally didn't want to delve into it. It's a time-wasting endeavor.

[clambake]

If Palin should get bashed for not answering questions, why not Obama?
by all means, bash him. it won't hold the same effect because of everyones underlying belief of his superior intelligence to that of palin.


That same steering was unacceptable last Thursday to many.
i'm sorry.


Even a senile McCain wouldn't actually think Spain is an enemy as in the U.S. needs to invade Spain.
what kind of enemy are they?

edited

[timvp]

Yes and that's why I personally didn't want to delve into it. It's a time-wasting endeavor.As opposed to chasing around whottt in every thread and putting his quotes in your sig. That, by contrast, is extremely well worth the time.

[clambake]

As opposed to chasing around whottt in every thread and putting his quotes in your sig. That, by contrast, is extremely well worth the time.

:lol you don't understand the creamy, carmel goodness of whotts meltdown?

[Shastafarian]

As opposed to chasing around whottt in every thread and putting his quotes in your sig. That, by contrast, is extremely well worth the time.

haha yeah it is worth it

[timvp]

by all means, bash him. it won't hold the same effect because of everyones underlying belief of his superior intelligence to that of palin.

i'm sorry.I don't want to bash Obama. Just like I didn't bash Palin. Dodging questions and sticking to talking points has been around since the first two two humans debated. I'm just wondering if others will notice their own hypocrisy.

Apparently not.


what kind of enemy are they?A Spanish enemy. :hat

[timvp]

haha yeah it is worth itJust admit you want to dodge the questions.

:downspin:

[SpursFanFirst]

No matter who was nominated by the Dems, and no matter who was nominated by the GOP, the starts were in place. The dems were going to tie whoever it was to Bush. I mean look at the growth in the democratic party and look at the 06 elections.

I think most of the objective posters in here knew that no matter who the GOP nominated they were going to have a hell of time to even be competitive in this environment.

I agree that there would've been a battle no matter what, but I also think McCain had a fighting chance in the beginning. I think as time went on, he damaged his own campaign.

[Shastafarian]

Just admit you want to dodge the questions.

:downspin:

I'm not dodging anything. I just didn't see the value in having a lengthy debate on opinions. I tried it in the VP Debate Blog and got nowhere.

[timvp]

I'm not dodging anything. I just didn't see the value in having a lengthy debate on opinions. I tried it in the VP Debate Blog and got nowhere.This was your fourth dodge. You could have saved time by simply addressing it the first time. You likely won't because you'd have to admit your own hypocrisy.


*cue dodge number five*

[clambake]

I don't want to bash Obama. Just like I didn't bash Palin. Dodging questions and sticking to talking points has been around since the first two two humans debated. I'm just wondering if others will notice their own hypocrisy.

Apparently not.
should of just one picked someone who could stick and jab. it's not my fault he picked someone that is so close to being the replacement. hypocracy gets a pass on something this important.


A Spanish enemy. :hat
probably just one of many senior moments to come.

[Shastafarian]

This was your fourth dodge. You could have saved time by simply addressing it the first time. You likely won't because you'd have to admit your own hypocrisy.


*cue dodge number five*

Sorry I figured you'd wanna get into a lengthy debate on the issue. I didn't realize 4 posts of relatively short length would have been sufficient. I think Obama displayed more knowledge on the subjects of the questions. I don't remember an instance where I thought McCain just knew so much more about a topic. Obama's answers didn't seem hollow and misinformed. I didn't catch every question but the ones that I saw were adequately answered and Obama showed he had at least a basic knowledge. He said some things that were prepared, sure. Who doesn't? McCain did similar things. Palin is an idiot who showed no grasp of basic topics. Her prepared answers were her entire answers as opposed to Obama who used his talking points to go deeper into his policies.

There. Happy? Don't call me a hypocrite cockgobbler.

[CuckingFunt]

Probably so. But doesn't make the tactic any different.

But it makes my response to that tactic very different. Obama stuck to the speaking points because he wanted to, Palin did so because she HAD to.

[The Power Hour.]

Wow timvp pulling out the smack bat on Shastafarian (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7159)'s crusty ass is epic!

[baseline bum]

Highly doubtful. Regardless of candidates, the Democrats had at least a 75/25 chance of winning this election based solely on Bush's approval ratings and the economic mess.

Maybe even 80/20.

I think the Democrats having a black candidate running ensures 75/25 is a huge overestimation. I wouldn't call it close to 75/25 yet even with the way Obama is owning in the polls. I think a lot of people say they're voting for him, but at the last minute will find some way to rationalize not voting for a black man. McCain's going to have a huge comeback the last few days of this election, and I think it'll be pretty close on November 4th.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I agree timvp but only that he was palinesque....he wasn't nearly as vague as she nor did he use the talking points in so blatant a repetitive manner as she. But I don't care. He didn't have to get specific. Just dodge, mention bush, and keep your head up.

I really wish he hadn't bumbled his words on the wrong moments too, but like i asked earlier, did anyone else notice how he did a WAY better job talking in a normal cadence this debate? He did stumble and say some uhhhs but not nearly as much as before. Maybe he really can pass a 6th grade speech class.

[Shastafarian]

Wow timvp pulling out the smack bat on Shastafarian (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7159)'s crusty ass is epic!

My crusty ass? What smack bat are you referring to? When he didn't respond to me after I answered him?

I also think this is funny:


Actually you all should be after The Jews of this forum like yonnivore and Whottt for fucking up our country and 9/11

Damn you're insightful!

[Cry Havoc]

If Palin should get bashed for not answering questions, why not Obama?

That same steering was unacceptable last Thursday to many.

Even a senile McCain wouldn't actually think Spain is an enemy as in the U.S. needs to invade Spain.

Agreed.

I didn't like how evasive Obama was in the debate. He was pulling punches all over the place. Given how ridiculously aggressive McCain has been, it's easy to understand why, but I had to laugh at the answer both men gave to the last question.

Obama got a C from me in the debate, very middling. McCain would have had a B except for the fact that he was completely condescending to everyone the entire time of the debate. His "my friends" shtick, calling Obama "that one", refusing to shake his hand, and perhaps the most annoying thing, acting like he personally gave a crap about the veteran who stood up and asked a question, I give him a D. That was a winnable debate for McCain, because Obama didn't go for the win, he just played not to lose.

Instead of seeing the maverick emerge, I saw more miscues and story twisting from McCain than in the first debate. Whatever happened to the guy who would walk on TV with Jon Stewart and just talk like he's an individual instead of a representative standing on a platform of republican money? I miss that.

[JIM LAMPLEY]

Shastafarian comes back with a right hook out of nowhere........

[timvp]

I think Obama displayed more knowledge on the subjects of the questions.It would have been more apparent if he at least answered 10% of the questions directly.


I don't remember an instance where I thought McCain just knew so much more about a topic.Never said he did.


Obama's answers didn't seem hollow and misinformed.When you don't answer actual questions, it's difficult to sound misinformed.


I didn't catch every question but the ones that I saw were adequately answered and Obama showed he had at least a basic knowledge.So you went out of your way to say I'm wrong yet you didn't even watch the whole debate?


He said some things that were prepared, sure. Who doesn't? McCain did similar things.Obama delivered much more prepared content than McCain.


Palin is an idiot who showed no grasp of basic topics. Exaggeration.


Her prepared answers were her entire answers as opposed to Obama who used his talking points to go deeper into his policies. Going deeper on a question that isn't asked still doesn't answer the question.


There. Happy? Don't call me a hypocrite cockgobbler.Who said anything about "cockgobbling". Freudian slip?


My crusty ass? What smack bat are you referring to? When he didn't respond to me after I answered him? :lol So now you are angry at me for not answering yet you give Obama a free pass for not answering? If I were Obama in debate mode, I'd somehow be talking about about universal health care by now.

Then again, if I'm playing Obama in debate mode, you wouldn't be reading this . . .

[timvp]

But it makes my response to that tactic very different. Obama stuck to the speaking points because he wanted to, Palin did so because she HAD to.As Obama likes to say, you used a hatchet when you needed a scalpel :smokin

I don't think Obama could have answered every question without going outside of his comfort zone and I think Palin could have successfully answered more questions if that was part of her strategy.


I really wish he hadn't bumbled his words on the wrong moments too, but like i asked earlier, did anyone else notice how he did a WAY better job talking in a normal cadence this debate? He did stumble and say some uhhhs but not nearly as much as before. Maybe he really can pass a 6th grade speech class.I think Obama was just nervous in the first debate. You could literally see him search for words as he was talking the first time around. This time he was much more comfortable and his talk flowed much better. However, he still has a high percentage of errors for a lawyer who has been in politics for a long while. Maybe in the third debate he'll talk smoothly and take out his excessive verbal typos.

[timvp]

I think the Democrats having a black candidate running ensures 75/25 is a huge overestimation. I wouldn't call it close to 75/25 yet even with the way Obama is owning in the polls. I think a lot of people say they're voting for him, but at the last minute will find some way to rationalize not voting for a black man. McCain's going to have a huge comeback the last few days of this election, and I think it'll be pretty close on November 4th.My 75/25 number was based solely on the facts of most people viewing Bush as a disaster, his poor approval rating and the fact that he's at the helm during an economic meltdown. The Republican candidate would have to overcome all of that, so if the two candidates were exactly equal, I'd say the Democrats had a 75/25 chance of winning the election. But yes, adding in the black factor (and the Hussein factor, for that matter) has definitely leveled the playing field.

I don't think this hypothetical could be argued: If McCain were the Democrat and Obama were the Republican, McCain would be curbstomping Obama in the polls. Overcoming Bush, the economy and being black would be too much for any one man to handle.

[2centsworth]

if Obama were republican he would destroy mccain. liberalism doesn't do well in national elections.

[timvp]

if Obama were republican he would destroy mccain. liberalism doesn't do well in national elections.No way. Obama could beat the Bush label, the economy and being black?

[TomBrady]

Obama would be up at least 4-5 more pts if he was not black. If he were a white Southerner this wouldn't even be remotely competitive.

I am not at all disappointed in the Democrats nominating him though.

[whottt]

timvp, stay away from my sigs.


Manny, Blaze, and CBF while we're at it, a more detailed descritption of McCain's plan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/us/politics/09mortgage.html?ref=business



Mr. Holtz-Eakin corrected one detail from the brief outline that the campaign issued Tuesday night after the debate. That outline said the plan would cost roughly $300 billion, which, it said, could be drawn from the $700 billion provided in the financial rescue package that became law last week.

But Mr. Holtz-Eakin said the financing could come from “several pots of money”: the bailout money,the F.H.A.’s separate authority to refinance up to $300 billion in mortgages, or the mortgage-finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the government now owns.


Do you guys see now how stupid your media is now?

This is everything I said last night, about where McCain(and others) were intending to get the money from. That it wasn't a new idea, not to do it, not to get it from the 700 billion or Fannie or Freddie, as Frank said(2 weeks ago), as Paulson said(nearly a year ago) as McCain's own site said(from nearly 6 months ago).


I told you guys this and was a called dumbass, a jibbering idiot...


Who's the dumbass again?

Aside from the media I mean?


I'm not just talking about CNN and MSNBS etc...I'm talking Fox too, all those beltway boy douchebags, in particular Krauthamer decried the socialism and new spending on top of the 700 billion dollar bailout.


None of these guy know shit, they don't know how the 700 billion bailout is going to work, they don't understand how to fix those mortgages, they don't even know what Freddie and Fannie do...yet they sit and interpret for the masses.


I may have to reconsider my position they are biased...it's entirely possile they are just stupid.


Anyway...apologies accepted.

[whottt]

No way. Obama could beat the Bush label, the economy and being black?


Being black doesn't hurt him near as much as having the middle name of Hussein IMO.


I'll go out on a limb here and predict nobdy named Adolph, Hitler, Manson, Lennin etc. will ever be elected President of this country(or at least not in our lifetimes)....or Hussein. Distinctive name with mostly a negative connotation? It's not going to happen. It's a subconcious thing...

[Cry Havoc]

Being black doesn't hurt him near as much as having the middle name of Hussein IMO.


I'll go out on a limb here and predict nobdy named Adolph, Hitler, Manson, Lennin etc. will ever be elected President of this country....or Hussein. Distinctive name with mostly a negative connotation? It's not going to happen. It's a subconcious thing...

Yep. John McCain is better. Just ask Able.

[whottt]

Yep. John McCain is better. Just ask Able.


:lmao you want to know something funny? It bothers me all the time that he's got Cain in his name and I wonder for a second every once in a while if he's the guy I should be voting for because of it.


Everytime someone says Obama is the anti-christ I immedtiately think about the fact Cain was the one who murdered his brother and wonder...

Plus McCain kind of combs his hair like Hitler and that bothers me...but since he can't comb his own hair I cut him some slack.

Believe it or not it does hurt McCain, he has problems getting the support of the conservative christian base...and not entirely because of his political stances. IMO his name is part of the problem with them.


If his name was Cain instead of McCain it'd hurt him a lot more....the Mc helps. But nothing helps Obama with Hussein. It's a bad political name in this country...it just is.

[whottt]

I mean seriously...if some dude was named Satan don't you think it'd cost him some votes? Same principle here.

[timvp]

Anyway...apologies accepted.It looks like whottt was right.


I'm going to have to read over the thread again.

:reading

[MannyIsGod]

If its not new, why did McCain issue a proposal last night? Because its fucking new. In other words, if its already law why does it have to be proposed? Gee, maybe because its not?

How hard of a concept is this for you Whottt?

[CuckingFunt]

As Obama likes to say, you used a hatchet when you needed a scalpel :smokin

I don't think Obama could have answered every question without going outside of his comfort zone and I think Palin could have successfully answered more questions if that was part of her strategy.

That may or may not be the case, but it has very little to do with my response to their debate tactics.

Having long since made up my mind on this election, quite firmly, I don't think that there's anything either candidate (in either the presidential or vice presidential debate) could have possibly said that would have changed my mind in terms of policy. Therefore, I was focusing more on issues of composure and confidence. I don't think that Obama was as evasive last night as Palin was last week, but I think he masked what was there a lot better than Palin did. The feeling was that he was much more in control of his answers than she was -- calmly avoiding is better than floundering and flustered, as far as I'm concerned. Especially from a candidate who, I believe, has already proven his intelligence on numerous occasions.

Now, the similarity in debate tactics is something that certainly should matter to the undecideds. They're the ones who should be making that comparison and/or asking that question.

[whottt]

If its not new, why did McCain issue a proposal last night? Because its fucking new. In other words, if its already law why does it have to be proposed? Gee, maybe because its not?

How hard of a concept is this for you Whottt?



Give it up...there's nothing new about it. And it's not new spending either. Both of which everyone was claiming last night. As I said part of the reason they voted down the original bill is so they could change it to do this with it. It's also what they're going to have to do with Fannie and Freddie. It's what Barney Frank wanted to do. It's not a new idea, it's not new spending, and as for the idea of refinancing to fix the housing market in general, lots of guys have been wanting to do this for a while with or without Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, including John McCain, so of course they are going to do this now.

The only thing McCain did was hi-jack an idea by Barney Franks, Dodds and the Democrats...right from under Obama's nose, and Obama didn't have a clue about any of this shit either. That's why he sat there and let McCain do it last night.

Guarantee you Obama will be on board with this ASAP. But what I'll remember is he didn't say a word about it during the debate...he didn't know enough to do so, just like the Journalists.


It's a no-brainer than you do with the government already holding like trillions of dollars worth of mortgages(Fannie and Freddie) total, and with them about to purchase a shitload more of them with this bailout bill. They don't want to be holding 6 Trllion worth of toilet paper.

[MannyIsGod]

sigh, I wonder what the weather is like in the Whotttverse.

[whottt]

You want me to post the link of me saying he was going to do with the bailout money and you calling me a dumbass and saying that wasn't what the bailout was for? Not only is McCain saying it...Barney Frank said it the day they threw Paulson's plan out. It's not a new idea, it's not new spending, and yes, the 700 billion is going to be used for that, buying bad mortgages(and so are Fannie and Freddie)....whether McCain plans to do it, or not.


I can post the quote...



PWNT.

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt, for the first time this election season, you were right and I was wrong on that.

Unlike you, I can admit when I'm wrong.

[LARRY MERCHANT]

Tim...........m.........v.........p............is. ................on...................a..........qu ote.............wave......................that.... ................no.....................poster..... .................has.................ever......... .................recovered........................ .from.........

[SpursFanFirst]

Being black doesn't hurt him near as much as having the middle name of Hussein IMO.

:tu



I'll go out on a limb here and predict nobody named Hussein will ever be elected President of this country(or at least not in our lifetimes).


I disagree with this. I hope I'm wrong, but I think Obama has this election. :depressed

Maybe he'll surprise us and do a good job. I'm not holding my breath though.

[MannyIsGod]

I gave Whottt victory too early. McCain released a new draft of his plan today because there were errors in the first draft. Among those errors? You guessed it, it doesn't come from the same 700b in the bailout.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Changing_the_plan.html#comments

[clambake]

I gave Whottt victory too early. McCain released a new draft of his plan today because there were errors in the first draft. Among those errors? You guessed it, it doesn't come from the same 700b in the bailout.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Changing_the_plan.html#comments

damn manny. it's unimaginable the lengths that mccain will go to be elected.

what the hell happened to this guy?

[clambake]

A McCain campaign official explained the change: “That language was mistakenly included in the initial draft and it’s been corrected. It doesn’t reflect the intentions of the initiative, which necessitated the correction and the removal of the sentence. A simple mistake.”

jesus. this is 4 more years of incompetence.

[baseline bum]

Being black doesn't hurt him near as much as having the middle name of Hussein IMO.


Bullshit. Anyone who thinks racism is dead in this country has his head buried deep in the sand. Oh wait, look who I'm talking to.

[Nbadan]

What she meant to say...


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