For Soc/Sec Privatizers: "Retirement Accounts Have Lost $2 Trillion"

[boutons_]

WASHINGTON — Americans' retirement plans have lost as much as $2 trillion in the past 15 months _ about 20 percent of their value _ Congress' top budget analyst estimated Tuesday as lawmakers began investigating how turmoil in the financial industry is whittling away workers' nest eggs

"Unlike Wall Street executives, America's families don't have a golden parachute to fall back on," said Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., the panel chairman. "It's clear that their retirement security may be one of the greatest casualties of this financial crisis."

A new AARP study found that because of the economic downturn, one in five workers 45 and older has stopped putting money into a 401(k), IRA or other retirement savings account during the past year, and nearly one in four has increased the number of hours he works. More than one-third of these workers have considered delaying retirement,

Some experts argue that the hefty tax subsidies that Congress has put in place in recent decades for 401(k) and other worker-contribution accounts have made people's retirement income less secure by shifting risks, decisions and costs from employers to people who often know little about investing.

"They are fatally flawed," Teresa Ghilarducci, an economist at the New School for Social Research, said of the tax-advantaged plans. "They're too risky, and it's not good policy to have workers run their own retirement plan. They want government help."

Common mistakes workers make include overinvesting in a single stock _ often their company's _ and participating in funds that carry large fees or involve excessive risk, the witnesses said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/retirement-accounts-have_n_132737.html?view=print

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Anybody have any numbers on how much if any the Soc/Sec account is reduced by the Wall St fiasco?

[101A]

You're right; SS can't suffer this same fate; BECAUSE THEIR IS NO MONEY IN THE "TRUST FUND" TO LOSE!!!! Just Govt. Bonds; which will be cashed by future tax payers.

[boutons_]

Lie and fear-mongering.

S/S fund won't be at risk, by the govt's own estimates, until sometime in the 2040s.

By that time, the Baby Boomer "Greatest Generation" demographic bulge will be mostly dead and gone.

[Anti.Hero]

Do not worry Boutons. The government will send you grocery money.


They'll take care of you little buddy.

[101A]

Lie and fear-mongering.

S/S fund won't be at risk, by the govt's own estimates, until sometime in the 2040s.

By that time, the Baby Boomer "Greatest Generation" demographic bulge will be mostly dead and gone.


What that means is that in 2040 the amount coming into SS on a daily basis will be less than what is going out. There is nothing but bonds in the trust fund.

[Anti.Hero]

How many trillion have American investors made in the stock market over the last 50 years?

[DarrinS]

By the way boutons, you do know that 401k and SS are two different animals, right?


Even Lord Heussein knows that SS needs to be overhauled. Put that in your crack pipe.

[Wild Cobra]

Only a $2T loss over all this time? That's not bad since we have had a Bear Market after removing the Uptick Rule by the SEC, and the short sellers learned how to gain better by it. The Bail Out has made this drop even more, but we were already dropping. Meanwhile, I will trust the market will return in full force before I retire, and continue to contribute the maximum to my 401K. As we approach 7000 and less on the Dow, I'm buying stocks 2 for one once their true value returns.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/2yearmarket.jpg

wiki: Uptick Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uptick_rule):



Uptick rule

The uptick rule is a securities trading rule used to regulate short selling in financial markets. The rule mandates, subject to certain exceptions, that when sold, a listed security must either be sold short at a price above the price at which the immediately preceding sale was effected, or at the last sale price if it is higher than the last different price. In 1938, the SEC adopted the uptick rule, more formally known as rule 10a-1, after conducting an inquiry into the effects of concentrated short selling during the market break of 1937.

The NASD and Nasdaq adopted their own short sale price tests based on the last bid rather than on the last reported sale.

Elimination

The SEC eliminated the uptick rule on July 6, 2007. The elimination of the rule was preceded by a SEC order, placed on July 28, 2004, to create a one-year pilot temporarily suspending the uptick rule on select securities. The purpose of the suspension was so that the commission could study the effectiveness of the rule. The SEC's Office of Economic Analysis and academic researchers provided the SEC with analysis of the data obtained during the pilot. The consensus was against the uptick rule, with the commission concluding that the uptick rule "modestly reduce[d] liquidity and do[es] not appear necessary to prevent manipulation."

The rule was originally put in place to avoid the perpetration of a financial crime known as a bear raid. However, short sellers themselves viewed the rule as "largely symbolic" and having little actual effect on short selling.

Criticism

On July 3, 2008 Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, an adviser on mergers and acquisitions, said short-selling was at record levels and asked the SEC to take urgent action and reinstate the 70-year-old uptick rule.

On the March 20, 2008 episode of Mad Money, Jim Cramer launched his campaign to reinstate the uptick rule. Citing the wild swings of the market since its elimination, Cramer said that the SEC eliminated the rule during a bull market, when liquidity was not a problem. Cramer believes that, without the uptick rule in place, short sellers are devaluing perfectly solid stocks.

We are set to repeat the Great Depression. Removal of the Uptick Rule, and more governemnt spending. It will be there, with no question in my mind, if Obama becomes president and tax rates are raised on the rich.

[ElNono]

Didn't somebody say last night:

'Fixing Social Security is easy'

and the proceeded not to say how you fix it?

[KenMcCoy]

$2T loss...life ain't always fair...suck it up. The last time I checked the stock market isn't, never has, and never will be a sure thing.





By that time, the Baby Boomer "Greatest Generation" demographic bulge will be mostly dead and gone.

Sorry boss...the Greatest Generation is already almost all gone.

*In case you were wondering, the Greatest Generation is the generation that came BEFORE the baby boomers.

[Wild Cobra]

I hope those of you who wanted the bailout are proud.

Last five days of trading:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/5daydow20081009.jpg