NBA Top 50: Tim Duncan (No. 5)

[duncan228]

Allanon was posting these, but it's Duncan. :)

NBA Top 50: Tim Duncan (No. 5) (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/10/08/nba-top-50-tim-duncan-no-5/)
by Tom Ziller (author feed)
FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/5.jpg

Tim Duncan needs no explanation here. Generally regarded as one of the greatest pivots in the league's history, Duncan has dominated the NBA for the last decade like no other active player ... not even Shaq. Duncan's lows (2005-06, '07-08) are still top 10 material. His heights -- well, few could dream of reaching them.

Big Fun(damental) has a crystal defensive record. In the modern era, only Dikembe Mutombo can reasonably be considered a peer as an anchor, shotblocker, defensive quarterback, rebounder and pure stopper. The way Duncan plays defense is the way most kids in the schoolyard see Kobe play offense: simple domination. In eight of his 11 seasons, Duncan has been voted to first team All-Defense; in the other three seasons, he made the second team. He's top 20 all-time in blocks and rebounds per game ... and that's playing on a slow team in any era where offenses are favored (as opposed to the 1970s and 80s, where rules and talent levels left a lot more rebound opportunities).

If that's enough, he's one of the most potent offensive weapons ever. His usage rate is top 15 all-time, meaning less than 15 players in the history of the NBA have been responsible for a larger share of their team's offense. ! So yes, his overall offensive efficiency numbers aren't spectacular -- free throws remain the sometimes fatal flaw -- but he gets the job done at above-average rate for a ton of possessions.

Combine those unbelievable attributes with a consistently solid supporting cast and a great coaching staff, and Duncan has never missed the playoffs. (I don't suspect he'll start now.) And in the playoffs, he is typically amazing. All this overwhelming success has seriously altered draft strategies: facing off with a talent like Kevin Durant, is is not obvious Duncan is the reason Portland picked Greg Oden in '07? Dwight Howard in '04? Going big is nothing new, but putting an emphasis on finding someone who can change the game on the glass and in the defensive paint ... that stems from Duncan's long-lasting success.

Should we expect Duncan to slow down this season? His numbers will look better, I can assure you, with Manu Ginobili out a while. But the uptick on offense might be blurred -- San Antonio had trouble scoring at times last season with a full deck; without Manu, teams will do everything they can to limit Duncan and Tony Parker, and all that attention could wear Big Fun out. Will that affect his defense? Or will Kurt Thomas' presence more than make up the difference? I won't bet against Duncan, that's for sure. Another MVP-type season is as sure as the tide.

[tp2021]

He's not boring! He's Big Fun! :lol

[MrChug]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/5.jpg


He doesn't look very fuckin happy about it.

[DPG21920]

He doesn't look very fuckin happy about it.

that is funny

[duncan228]

He doesn't look very fuckin happy about it.

:lol The pic is from the premiere of Meet Dave. From how bad I heard the movie was maybe that's what he's not so happy about.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol The pic is from the premiere of Meet Dave.

Shoot, neegro, that's all you got to say!

[Allanon]

Shoot, neegro, that's all you got to say!

I'm sending the Wolf.


He's not boring! He's Big Fun! :lol

I would have liked for him to have had some more attitude...guys would grab him and grope him and he'd just let it go. I would have paid to have seen Timmy body-slam some dude at least once.

So how do you Spur fans feel about the #5 ranking?

There are only 4 spots left and he's already gotten DWade out of the way so that leaves Kobe, Lebron and CP3, who am I missing as the 4th person?

[Sissiborgo]

Solid nr.

[duncan228]

There are only 4 spots left and he's already gotten DWade out of the way so that leaves Kobe, Lebron and CP3, who am I missing as the 4th person?

I haven't checked his list, what number is Garnett? Shaq?

Edit: I just checked, neither of them are on it yet.

[rAm]

LOL, I was looking at the rest of the list and this was the picture they used for Dirk:

http://www.blogcdn.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/10/dirknowitzki-tz-425.jpg


hahaha that sign in the background is all types of ironic.

[Allanon]

I haven't checked his list, what number is Garnett? Shaq?

Edit: I just checked, neither of them are on it yet.

Ah yes, KG, I think you nailed it, that's the dude who's missing, I was drawing a blank there.

It's too late for Shaq, it's gotta be KG if he isn't on the list yet.

But KG in front of Duncan?

ps. Yup, I checked the list again too, no KG yet so it's gotta be him...

KG before Duncan is ludicrous...just because he won that 1 ring.

[duncan228]

Ah yes, KG, I think you nailed it, that's the dude who's missing, I was drawing a blank there.

It's too late for Shaq, it's gotta be KG if he isn't on the list yet.

But KG in front of Duncan?

ps. Yup, I checked the list again too, no KG yet so it's gotta be him...he wouldn''t be below top 10. KG before Duncan is ludicrous...people have said before that if KG ever won a ring, those old Duncan vs KG arguments would pop up again.

Garnett over Duncan is ridiculous. We've re-hashed it here several times. Garnett finally getting a ring still doesn't put him anywhere near Duncan's league to me. But that's the fun of these lists. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Galileo]

Duncan is hands down the best NBA player. Only Lebron comes close. This is BS!!

[Galileo]

Garnett over Duncan is ridiculous. We've re-hashed it here several times. Garnett finally getting a ring still doesn't put him anywhere near Duncan's league to me. But that's the fun of these lists. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I agree with duncan228.

Anyone look at Duncan's rebounding in the playoffs last year? Duncan took in about 15 boards per game to Garnett's 10.

[Ice009]

Look I don't wanna bag Garnett, but putting him ahead of Duncan gives me no choice as that's a JOKE. A FREAKING JOKE.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Look I don't wanna bag Garnett, but putting him ahead of Duncan gives me no choice as that's a JOKE. A FREAKING JOKE.

dude its been the joke since the celtics won the ring, nearly everyone of that team overnight has become way overrated

fukn rondo top 10 PG? give me a break, and PP outburst being better than kobe hahahhaa....and KG also. :lobt2::nope

[Taking it to the Hole]

Don't worry, after this year Tim will leapfrog KG again, because no way the Celtics are as good as they were last year. The real way to finally put this KG & Duncan rivalry to rest is to have Tim dethrone the current champions and reclaim his spot as the King!

[m33p0]

Don't worry, after this year Tim will leapfrog KG again, because no way the Celtics are as good as they were last year. The real way to finally put this KG & Duncan rivalry to rest is to have Tim dethrone the current champions and reclaim his spot as the King!
preferably, with Tim owning KG.:king

[BlackSwordsMan]

Who is #1-4?

[duncan228]

Who is #1-4?

We'll know in the next few days as he releases the rest.

Some names left: LeBron, Garnett, Kobe, Chris Paul, Shaq.

[daslicer]

Comparing Duncan to KG now because he was 1 ring is like going back to '95 and comparing Drexler to MJ after he finally won his first ring which is there is no comparision.

[Manufan909]

I might not go that far, but Tim is clearly superior, if we're not talking about the average NBA fan who values flash over true skills.

[Allanon]

There's no way Shaq will be in the top 4 at this point in his career so I'm guessing he's going to miss this list.

He's not as good as before but to entirely dismiss Shaq in the top 50 is crazy.

[ambchang]

Ziller has repeated demonstrated that he knows very little about the NBA.

[dirk4mvp]

lol at the spur fans who think these lists are supposed to cater to duncan.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't mind #5..this is actually the 1st list this year where I've seen KG ahead of Duncan, so Garnett is obviously going to be ahead SOMETIMES..

[z0sa]

lol at the spur fans who think these lists are supposed to cater to duncan.

LOL @ the mavs fan posting in a spurs forum bashing spurfan

[z0sa]

Tim at 5 is actually high, considering the amount of hate and lack of coverage he receives (dunno if hate is the true meaning, but it sure seems like it). But to everyone who loves the spurs, we know hes really #1

[duncan228]

And here's our answer. Garnett at #4. I guess he won the toin coss. :lol

NBA Top 50: Kevin Garnett (No. 4 (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/10/09/nba-top-50-kevin-garnett-no-4/))
by Tom Ziller

FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.

Thanks to my overwhelming ego, I have not dared say this yet in our journey from 50 to 1: this choice, Kevin Garnett, won a coin toss against Tim Duncan. When I looked at the 2008-09 season and who I felt would be the best players in the NBA, I couldn't go one way or the other between Big Fun and the Big Ticket. So KG took tails and the No. 4 spot. I'm not ashamed of the arbitrary decision, though: it's probably the right choice by a smidgen.

Duncan gets mentioned as the greatest power forward ever, and might end up in a whole lot of top 10 all-time lists. But Garnett has been just as good through it all. Duncan has eight all-defense first team appearances. Garnett has seven. KG sits just a touch lower on all-time rebounds and blocks per game lists than Duncan, which can be in part attributed to Garnett's rookie season, where as a 19-year-old he played less than 30 minutes a game. In fact, during the pair's primes, KG led the league in rebounds four times. Duncan only finished as high as second once.

All this begs the question: is Garnett as good a defender as Duncan?
It's a tough case to make, when you consider San Antonio has been at or near the top of defensive rankings for basically the entirety of Duncan's career, while Garnett's Minnesota team fluttered about depending on the personnel. I think 2007-08 in Boston is telling, though. For the first time since Chauncey Billups, Garnett had a point guard who couldn't be described as a matador. Sam Cassell, Troy Hudsen ... could Duncan anchor a defense with marshmallows and still find himself with the No. 1 defense? Give Garnett a Rajon Rondo, it's a better comparison. In fairness, Rondo's a better stopper than Tony Parker. But look at all the other defensive aid Duncan has had: Bruce Bowen, David Robinson, Manu Ginobili -- Duncan's teams have always been better equipped to defend hard. This isn't a knock on Timmy, as the results matter. But it's plausible Garnett would have kept San Antonio atop the defensive rankings in Duncan's stead. Last season's magical Boston defense is Exhibits A through E.

And then there's offense. Duncan has been responsible for a greater share, the pair have been equally as efficient. But that's measured over the course of their careers. At their peaks, there's no question Garnett was the better weapon. Garnett's four-year run between 2002-03 and 2005-06 is unmatched this decade in terms of complete output. During that stretch, Garnett averaged 23/13/5. Simply outrageous, outrageous production.

2006-07 was a down year for Garnett, and was either translated as the first step in Ticket's decline or KG's cryptic plea to get out of town. The team was awful under Randy Wittman, who took over for a coach (Dwane Casey) who shouldn't have been fired. The roster around Garnett had become toxic it was so bad. Come Boston in 2007-08, the box score statistics again trickled down ... but not due to some crushing decline in Garnett's skills. Everything he had done for years, he did. Well, except lose ...

So we're still left with the question of whether Garnett's on his way out, or whether there's life left in him ... the same question we faced with Duncan. My prognosis for Boston is aimed higher than that of San Antonio: the Celtics, with Rondo and Leon Powe and the ever-buoyant Paul Pierce, actually might have an improving roster, which can only mean good things for the star. (See: Bryant, Kobe.) The Spurs are on their way out, which won't help Duncan make his case. And while Duncan probably holds the career lead on Garnett, the case should get a bit closer this season.

[rAm]

I don't see where he explains why Garnett should be above Duncan in that segment. All he did was prove why Duncan is a little better than Garnett in every category.

[duncan228]

I don't see where he explains why Garnett should be above Duncan in that segment. All he did was prove why Duncan is a little better than Garnett in every category.

His explanation:

...this choice, Kevin Garnett, won a coin toss against Tim Duncan.

[Galileo]

And here's our answer. Garnett at #4. I guess he won the toin coss. :lol

NBA Top 50: Kevin Garnett (No. 4 (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2008/10/09/nba-top-50-kevin-garnett-no-4/))
by Tom Ziller

FanHouse's Tom Ziller argues his ranking of the top 50 players in the NBA.

Thanks to my overwhelming ego, I have not dared say this yet in our journey from 50 to 1: this choice, Kevin Garnett, won a coin toss against Tim Duncan. When I looked at the 2008-09 season and who I felt would be the best players in the NBA, I couldn't go one way or the other between Big Fun and the Big Ticket. So KG took tails and the No. 4 spot. I'm not ashamed of the arbitrary decision, though: it's probably the right choice by a smidgen.

Duncan gets mentioned as the greatest power forward ever, and might end up in a whole lot of top 10 all-time lists. But Garnett has been just as good through it all. Duncan has eight all-defense first team appearances. Garnett has seven. KG sits just a touch lower on all-time rebounds and blocks per game lists than Duncan, which can be in part attributed to Garnett's rookie season, where as a 19-year-old he played less than 30 minutes a game. In fact, during the pair's primes, KG led the league in rebounds four times. Duncan only finished as high as second once.

All this begs the question: is Garnett as good a defender as Duncan?
It's a tough case to make, when you consider San Antonio has been at or near the top of defensive rankings for basically the entirety of Duncan's career, while Garnett's Minnesota team fluttered about depending on the personnel. I think 2007-08 in Boston is telling, though. For the first time since Chauncey Billups, Garnett had a point guard who couldn't be described as a matador. Sam Cassell, Troy Hudsen ... could Duncan anchor a defense with marshmallows and still find himself with the No. 1 defense? Give Garnett a Rajon Rondo, it's a better comparison. In fairness, Rondo's a better stopper than Tony Parker. But look at all the other defensive aid Duncan has had: Bruce Bowen, David Robinson, Manu Ginobili -- Duncan's teams have always been better equipped to defend hard. This isn't a knock on Timmy, as the results matter. But it's plausible Garnett would have kept San Antonio atop the defensive rankings in Duncan's stead. Last season's magical Boston defense is Exhibits A through E.

And then there's offense. Duncan has been responsible for a greater share, the pair have been equally as efficient. But that's measured over the course of their careers. At their peaks, there's no question Garnett was the better weapon. Garnett's four-year run between 2002-03 and 2005-06 is unmatched this decade in terms of complete output. During that stretch, Garnett averaged 23/13/5. Simply outrageous, outrageous production.

2006-07 was a down year for Garnett, and was either translated as the first step in Ticket's decline or KG's cryptic plea to get out of town. The team was awful under Randy Wittman, who took over for a coach (Dwane Casey) who shouldn't have been fired. The roster around Garnett had become toxic it was so bad. Come Boston in 2007-08, the box score statistics again trickled down ... but not due to some crushing decline in Garnett's skills. Everything he had done for years, he did. Well, except lose ...

So we're still left with the question of whether Garnett's on his way out, or whether there's life left in him ... the same question we faced with Duncan. My prognosis for Boston is aimed higher than that of San Antonio: the Celtics, with Rondo and Leon Powe and the ever-buoyant Paul Pierce, actually might have an improving roster, which can only mean good things for the star. (See: Bryant, Kobe.) The Spurs are on their way out, which won't help Duncan make his case. And while Duncan probably holds the career lead on Garnett, the case should get a bit closer this season.

I see this guy never considered playoff stats.

Games

Duncan 155
Garnett 73

Wins/Losses

Duncan 100-55
Garnett 33-40

Playoff Series Record

Duncan 24-6
Garnett 6-8

Points per game

Duncan 23.4
Garnett 21.6

Rebounds per game

Duncan 12.7
Garnett 12.4

Blocks per game

Duncan 2.7
Garnett 1.6

FG%

Duncan 50.1
Garnett 47.0

[rAm]

His explanation:

That's a great way to write a list.

[duncan228]

That's a great way to write a list.

:lol

[spursfan09]

LOL, I was looking at the rest of the list and this was the picture they used for Dirk:

http://www.blogcdn.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/10/dirknowitzki-tz-425.jpg


hahaha that sign in the background is all types of ironic.

that is the funniest thing I have seen all day. well maybe not as funny as the girl I saw proudly wearing her Nowitski shirt at UTSA today. :lol get a clue people.

[rAm]

that is the funniest thing I have seen all day. well maybe not as funny as the girl I saw proudly wearing her Nowitski shirt at UTSA today. :lol get a clue people.

someone should shop that picture to make the sign say "First Round" somewhere

[Fernando TD21]

LOL, I was looking at the rest of the list and this was the picture they used for Dirk:

http://www.blogcdn.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/10/dirknowitzki-tz-425.jpg


hahaha that sign in the background is all types of ironic.
The sign reminds me of this:
D7452FKoI4A
:lol

[Allanon]

Well there you have it:



Duncan gets mentioned as the greatest power forward ever, and might end up in a whole lot of top 10 all-time lists. But Garnett has been just as good through it all

What a difference a ring makes in re-writing history.

[Texas_Ranger]

Garnett over Duncan...well I really don't like that!:madrun

[TDMVPDPOY]

he calls out tims teammates,

what ever happened to that overrated trenten hassell the defensive player....spree, cass, kandi, wally, oh dont forget that rookie KG punch during trainin scrimmage, how about rasho

he had fukn rasho once and cant win with rasho, while duncan wins one with rasho.

/thread.

[ambchang]

What the hell? Garnett's peak was better than Duncan on the offensive end?
Did he watch Duncan during 00 to 04?

He talked about Garnett having a poor supporting cast and his team failures, and yet failed to mention the dip in Garnett's production when he had good ones. Ever considered that Garnett was putting up great stats on a bad team, and good stats on a good team, while Duncan has consistently put up great stats on good teams?

The rankings really aren't that big of a deal, but man, this guy's logic and basketball knowledge is just wack.

[tlongII]

Duncan should be #3. Only Kobe and LeBron should be ahead of him.

[IronMexican]

Duncan should be #3. Only Kobe and LeBron should be ahead of him.

Oden?

[Allanon]

Only 3 guys left, Kobe, LeBron & CP3.

I have no idea how Deron Williams got stuck at #20 (I think that was the rank). Given what he's done with KG over Duncan, it wouldn't surprise me to see CP3 at #1.

[Allanon]

Duncan should be #3. Only Kobe and LeBron should be ahead of him.

I agree with you there, CP3 should not be ahead of Duncan...Duncan can still drop 30 and 20 with a couple blocks if it's needed.

[dirk4mvp]

someone should shop that picture to make the sign say "First Round" somewhere

because he's never been past it?

[Obstructed_View]

Only 3 guys left, Kobe, LeBron & CP3.

I have no idea how Deron Williams got stuck at #20 (I think that was the rank). Given what he's done with KG over Duncan, it wouldn't surprise me to see CP3 at #1.

That Duncan vs. Garnett could even be deemed worthy of a coin-flip, nothing would surprise me. I think Lebron is a great player, but the only scenario where I'd take him over Duncan is if age were a factor.

[rAm]

because he's never been past it?

No because as an MVP, he got raped in the first round.

Thats funny because there is a picture of him looking unhappy with an exit sign in the background that looks like it is telling him to GTFO, and thats ironic.

Here I'll post it for you so you can see it:

http://www.blogcdn.com/nba.fanhouse.com/media/2008/10/dirknowitzki-tz-425.jpg

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan gets mentioned as the greatest power forward ever, and might end up in a whole lot of top 10 all-time lists. But Garnett has been just as good through it all.

:lmao:lmao

Duncan has been one of the most winning players of all time since he came into the league, best winning percentage of any major sport since he was drafted. KG was on worse teams but he was either not getting out of RD 1 or not making the playoffs at all almost every year of his career. Does anyone not believe TD would have done better with those same squads?What does KG do when he gets to the finals?? Oh yeah he can't throw the ball into the ocean against a bad defensive team and needs Paul Pierce to be the man to finally get a ring. This guy who wrote this article is a clown.


I see this guy never considered playoff stats.

Games

Duncan 155
Garnett 73

Wins/Losses

Duncan 100-55
Garnett 33-40

Playoff Series Record

Duncan 24-6
Garnett 6-8

Points per game

Duncan 23.4
Garnett 21.6

Rebounds per game

Duncan 12.7
Garnett 12.4

Blocks per game

Duncan 2.7
Garnett 1.6

FG%

Duncan 50.1
Garnett 47.0

No he didn't, props to you for pointing that out. He must have been high when he wrote this.



What a difference a ring makes in re-writing history.

Yep, which is why articles like this should be ignored, due to incompetence.