Colin Powell vs. Obama Hussein Obama

[DarrinS]

Just a hypothetical, but who do you think would win?


Personally, I think Powell could have already been president.

[Shastafarian]

Just a hypothetical, but who do you think would win?


Personally, I think Powell could have already been president.

Obama Hussein Obama? What kind of lame palindrome is that?

[BRHornet45]

sons his name is Muhammad Barack Hussein Obama. get it right

[Findog]

Obama Hussein Obama? What kind of lame palindrome is that?

Racists think there is great significance to Barack Obama's middle name. That's why they mention it as much as possible.

They think it's such a mark of shame. Well fuck them. I am a proud supporter of Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

[baseline bum]

Powell wants no part of being president, and has said so many times. I guess he got sick of politics after the way Bush and especially Cheney and Rumsfeld shit all over him with their failed execution of this war.

[Findog]

I wonder if he endorses Obama. There's been rumors that he would.

[boutons_]

Powell compromised himself and tainted his career by lying in the shit and slop with dubya's WH. he wasn't enough of fighter to be counterweight against rummy, dickhead, Feith, and assorted neo-c*nds polluting the WH and Pentagon and NSA.

[baseline bum]

I wonder if he endorses Obama. There's been rumors that he would.

I don't see how he couldn't when McCain supports Bush's execution of the war.

[Findog]

I don't see how he couldn't when McCain supports Bush's execution of the war.

Privately there's no way he could support McCain over Obama, but Powell is also a coward and a pussy. He was the moderating influence against the rush to war inside the White House but he dutifully went before the UN and gave that bogus presentation.

[Shastafarian]

Privately there's no way he could support McCain over Obama, but Powell is also a coward and a pussy. He was the moderating influence against the rush to war inside the White House but he dutifully went before the UN and gave that bogus presentation.

I think you might be judging him a little harshly. If you wanna know a lot about what he did/didn't do read Woodward's new book.

[TheProfessor]

Powell wants no part of being president, and has said so many times. I guess he got sick of politics after the way Bush and especially Cheney and Rumsfeld shit all over him with their failed execution of this war.
His wife asked him not to prior to 1996, so he did have aspirations at one time. Woodward wrote that she threatened to leave him.

[clambake]

i regained much respect for colin when he admitted that "the evidence used for going to war was deliberately misleading".

[DarrinS]

Obama Hussein Obama? What kind of lame palindrome is that?


I screwed it up. Can't edit it after you post. Oh well.

[Shastafarian]

I screwed it up. Can't edit it after you post. Oh well.

I know. I'm just joshin' around with ya.

[ChumpDumper]

Powell would even beat Sarah Palin.

[baseline bum]

Powell compromised himself and tainted his career by lying in the shit and slop with dubya's WH. he wasn't enough of fighter to be counterweight against rummy, dickhead, Feith, and assorted neo-c*nds polluting the WH and Pentagon and NSA.

Counterweight? Bush and Cheney put no stock in what this guy had to say because they were so gung-ho on Rumsfeld and that crook Chalabi who gave grand promises about a Democratic Iraq.

[Anti.Hero]

Obama Hussein Obama? What kind of lame palindrome is that?

According to Axelrod. Obama has a name. Not "that one", but a name.

[ElNono]

Counterweight? Bush and Cheney put no stock in what this guy had to say because they were so gung-ho on Rumsfeld and that crook Chalabi who gave grand promises about a Democratic Iraq.

If you have somehow managed to fit 'Alberto Gonzales' in your post above, you would have mentioned all the names of the worst people this administration has had in just one sentence. Impressive.

[Shastafarian]

If you have somehow managed to fit 'Alberto Gonzales' in your post above, you would have mentioned all the names of the worst people this administration has had in just one sentence. Impressive.

I dunno, I would've wanted Hadley in there.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Racists think there is great significance to Barack Obama's middle name. That's why they mention it as much as possible.

it's racists to point out someone's name? gee. i'm glad i don't watch any more jean claude van damme movies

:rolleyes

[DarrinS]

I think Powell has publicly acknowledged that he was misled prior to giving that UN speech. He's actually rather pissed off about. He was very loyal to Bush Sr. and I think he feels fucked over by the current admin.

That being said, I still haven't read any good points on a hypothetical Powell vs. Obama. Powell is an extremely smart and well-liked man. BUT, he's a conservative. It's too bad his reputation was sullied by that UN speech and that he never has aspirations to the highest office. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

[DarrinS]

it's racists to point out someone's name? gee. i'm glad i don't watch any more jean claude van damme movies

:rolleyes


I hate those fuckin Belgian's. Always trying to pawn off their waffles on everyone.

[baseline bum]

The only reason Powell gave that speech was because he was the only member of the administration that had any kind of respect outside of it. Could anyone here imagine Cheney trying to spin that bullshit intelligence at the UN?

I agree that Powell was a pussy for sucking up to Bush and trying to make the case after the way Bush held him in such disregard in the entire planning phase.

[ElNono]

I think Powell has publicly acknowledged that he was misled prior to giving that UN speech. He's actually rather pissed off about. He was very loyal to Bush Sr. and I think he feels fucked over by the current admin.

That being said, I still haven't read any good points on a hypothetical Powell vs. Obama. Powell is an extremely smart and well-liked man. BUT, he's a conservative. It's too bad his reputation was sullied by that UN speech and that he never has aspirations to the highest office. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

I think really, more than Powell, what you're asking is what conservative would have more 'pull' to win an election when you have Bush as the backdrop and this economic crisis going on. I don't think there's such a figure right now. But I'll keep thinking. Maybe somebody would pop out.

Specifically about Powell, I think he would be torched on economic issues.

[Findog]

it's racists to point out someone's name? gee. i'm glad i don't watch any more jean claude van damme movies

:rolleyes

How many times is he referred to as "John Sydney McCain"? How many times do we see her referred to as "Sarah Louise Heath Palin?" Or "Joseph Robinette Biden?" Until we do, you can shut the fuck up with this disingenuous "Oh, it's just his middle name, we don't mean anything by it by always typing it out" bullshit.

[baseline bum]

To answer the original question, Obama/Powell would be a Nixon/McGovern landslide. Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. He wouldn't get the independent vote because of his presentation to the UN. He wouldn't get the left vote because Obama has that clearly locked up.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

How many times is he referred to as "John Sydney McCain"? How many times do we see her referred to as "Sarah Louise Heath Palin?" Or "Joseph Robinette Biden?" Until we do, you can shut the fuck up with this disingenuous "Oh, it's just his middle name, we don't mean anything by it by always typing it out" bullshit.
if it's their name they can use it. so what. you're pretty defensive about it. in no way shape or form is that racist. get off that band wagon.

[SpursFanFirst]

If Powell had ANY interest in becoming President, he definitely would have it...no matter who he went up against.

And if he went up against Obama, it would be a Powell landslide.

[Findog]

if it's their name they can use it. so what. you're pretty defensive about it. in no way shape or form is that racist. get off that band wagon.

Why isn't this thread titled "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama"

DarrinS may or may not be a racist, but it's obvious what he's doing in omitting Powell's middle name but referencing Obama's.

I just want a conservative to tell me what is the special significance of Obama's middle name. I just wish they would come right out and say that Obama is an Unamerican Terrorist Sympathizer instead of skirting around it. Have some fucking balls and man up and own up to that stance instead of implying and inferring.

[baseline bum]

I'd be shocked if Powell could pull a single state against Obama.

[SpursFanFirst]

To answer the original question, Obama/Powell would be a Nixon/McGovern landslide. Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. He wouldn't get the independent vote because of his presentation to the UN. He wouldn't get the left vote because Obama has that clearly locked up.

:huh

[ChumpDumper]

Powell would still own anybody in a presidential election. I hope whoever wins brings him back to State.

[baseline bum]

:huh

How much more clear do you want me to make it? Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man.

[monosylab1k]

How much more clear do you want me to make it? Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man.

Yeah but if the choice is between Powell or a Hussein-middle-named Terrorist Muslim black man whose middle name is Hussein....you gotta think they go with the non-Hussein non-terrorist non-Muslim without Hussein in their name.

[baseline bum]

Yeah but if the choice is between Powell or a Hussein-middle-named Terrorist Muslim black man whose middle name is Hussein....you gotta think they go with the non-Hussein non-terrorist non-Muslim without Hussein in their name.

I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.

[DarrinS]

Why isn't this thread titled "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama"

DarrinS may or may not be a racist, but it's obvious what he's doing in omitting Powell's middle name but referencing Obama's.

I just want a conservative to tell me what is the special significance of Obama's middle name. I just wish they would come right out and say that Obama is an Unamerican Terrorist Sympathizer instead of skirting around it. Have some fucking balls and man up and own up to that stance instead of implying and inferring.


Barack is proud of his name. That's why he wanted people to start calling him Barack instead of his nickname, Barry. I don't see why you're so touchy about it.

[DarrinS]

How much more clear do you want me to make it? Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man.

That's about like saying all black people are voting for Obama because he's black. No?


EDIT> Just saw that you had the word "racist" in your post. Do you think ALL people of faith who reside in southern states are racist? A majority of them?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Why isn't this thread titled "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama"
well i guess it could. it might calm you down

DarrinS may or may not be a racist,
i still don't see why you are accusing someone of being a racists that simply say/mentions/points out someone's middle name. for pete's sake's the dude he's referring to is half white.

I just want a conservative to tell me what is the special significance of Obama's middle name. I just wish they would come right out and say that Obama is an Unamerican Terrorist Sympathizer instead of skirting around it. Have some fucking balls and man up and own up to that stance instead of implying and inferring.he came out and made a big speech addressing "rev" wright. i'll wait 'til he does one for ayers and alll of the other questionable associates that he dismisses or sends a litigation team to quiet down and we'll go from there. agreed?

[monosylab1k]

I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.

yeah true. if anything, David Duke would get a lot of write in votes.

[SpursFanFirst]

How much more clear do you want me to make it? Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and I can't think of one person that feels the way you just described.

[Findog]

Barack is proud of his name. That's why he wanted people to start calling him Barack instead of his nickname, Barry. I don't see why you're so touchy about it.

What does being proud of his first name have to do with his middle name?

How come you titled this thread "Colin Powell vs Obama (sic) Hussein Obama" instead of "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama?"

Why was Barack's middle name significant but Powell's was not? Do you type out "John Sydney McCain?" Do you type out "Sarah Louise Heath Palin?" Do you type out "Joseph Robinette Biden?"

What is the significance of always typing out Obama's middle name? What are you implying? What are you inferring? Do you believe he is an Unamerican terrorist sympathizer?

I'm not touchy, I'm going to call people out on being small when I see it. If you don't like it, maybe you should be consistent in how you refer to candidates, lest we get the wrong idea and put you in the same group as BRHornets45.

[monosylab1k]

Barack is proud of his name. That's why he wanted people to start calling him Barack instead of his nickname, Barry. I don't see why you're so touchy about it.

I really don't care for Obama, but cutesy little "I don't know what you're talking about, isn't that his name?" excuses like this are fucking lame. You put Hussein in there for a reason, so just admit it and move on, it's a total pussy move to throw it out there and then hide behind some lame ass excuse.

[baseline bum]

That's about like saying all black people are voting for Obama because he's black. No?


EDIT> Just saw that you had the word "racist" in your post. Do you think ALL people of faith who reside in southern states are racist? A majority of them?

Enough of a proportion to keep from being able to rally the evangelical vote the way Bush did (the only reason he won in 2004). A lot of people would convince themselves they're not racist but then find a way to rationalize not voting for a black man, just like they will this November 4th.

[SpursFanFirst]

I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.

You are completely off base.
Sure, there are racist people out there, but they don't speak for everyone else...and they certainly don't speak for the majority of religious people.
You need to stop generalizing like that.

I think Powell would win if he went up against...name a white man from the Dem. party...I'll say Evan Bayh since his name popped in my head first. Good looking, charismatic, smart, etc...

I would still say Powell wins.

[Findog]

I really don't care for Obama, but cutesy little "I don't know what you're talking about, isn't that his name?" excuses like this are fucking lame. You put Hussein in there for a reason, so just admit it and move on, it's a total pussy move to throw it out there and then hide behind some lame ass excuse.

Yep, it's a total bitch pussy move. Man up and say he's too liberal, or not patriotic enough, or sympathizes with anti-American radicals.

[baseline bum]

You are completely off base.
Sure, there are racist people out there, but they don't speak for everyone else...and they certainly don't speak for the majority of religious people.
You need to stop generalizing like that.

I think Powell would win if he went up against...name a white man from the Dem. party...I'll say Evan Bayh since his name popped in my head first. Good looking, charismatic, smart, etc...

I would still say Powell wins.

Yeah, racism isn't hugely evident in this campaign with the Hussein talk and the 'he's not like us' garbage coming from the right. Bull-shit. Powell would have no chance against Obama and would decidedly lose to even Clinton.

[DarrinS]

I really don't care for Obama, but cutesy little "I don't know what you're talking about, isn't that his name?" excuses like this are fucking lame. You put Hussein in there for a reason, so just admit it and move on, it's a total pussy move to throw it out there and then hide behind some lame ass excuse.


I just do it to fuck with people who are touchy about it. BFD.


Even Sara Silverman says "Yes, Barack Hussein Obama -- it's a super fucking shitty name". And she's a supporter.


AgHHX9R4Qtk

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Yeah, racism isn't hugely evident in this campaign with the Hussein talkagain, how is referring to his middle name as being racists? i don't see that. if He had white skin and people brought up his middle name would you still be calling them a racist?


and the 'he's not like us' garbage coming from the right. isn't that what the left basically says about the right? don't enemies normally have that mindset?


Bull-shit.you said it.

[SpursFanFirst]

Yeah, racism isn't hugely evident in this campaign with the Hussein talk and the 'he's not like us' garbage coming from the right. Bull-shit. Powell would have no chance against Obama and would decidedly lose to even Clinton.

Just speaking of this website, I'd say only a few people are mentioning "Hussein" when talking about Obama....but they're also the ones throwing around silly nicknames for other people and groups.
It's annoying, but it doesn't make someone racist.

I was also going to mention Clinton in my last message...and sure, he might not win against her, but that's not because of his race.
You would have the wife of one of the most popular Presidents ever running...and not only would she be President, but he'd be back in the White House, and he'd definitely have her ear. People know that and would respond favorably to that.

Good grief. It'd be a woman against a black man. Either way, a "minority" would win the job...and you still want to make this about race.

Give me a break.

[monosylab1k]

I just do it to fuck with people who are touchy about it. BFD.

then say that the first time and move on, don't give those stupid pussy excuses of "oh isn't that his middle name? i'm just saying his middle name, that's all". we really are a nation of 6 year olds.

[DarrinS]

then say that the first time and move on, don't give those stupid pussy excuses of "oh isn't that his middle name? i'm just saying his middle name, that's all". we really are a nation of 6 year olds.


To the extent that this thread has turned into a discussion of his name, instead of Powell vs. Obama, I wish I wouldn't have put it in this title.

[DarrinS]

Yeah, racism isn't hugely evident in this campaign with the Hussein talk and the 'he's not like us' garbage coming from the right. Bull-shit. Powell would have no chance against Obama and would decidedly lose to even Clinton.


I seriously doubt that. Hillary is not a well-liked person. And she comes off as a little bitchy on TV, IMO.

[101A]

I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and I can't think of one person that feels the way you just described.

They (the posters you are trying to persuade) are bigots, don't even try.

Powell could beat any other American I can think of in a Presidential election.

[baseline bum]

They (the posters you are trying to persuade) are bigots, don't even try.

Powell could beat any other American I can think of in a Presidential election.

Maybe 10 years ago when he could appeal to independents and some of the left to make up for not being able to rally the conservative base, but that presentation to the UN ensured he would get almost none of the first two groups' support. Powell made the case for going to war, and no one will ever forget that.

[Spurminator]

again, how is referring to his middle name as being racists? i don't see that. if He had white skin and people brought up his middle name would you still be calling them a racist?

It's not racist against black people, it's racist against Arabs.

And the term "racist" when used as an adjective is not plural, so you should quit putting an "s" on the end when it doesn't belong. Thanks.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

It's not racist against black people, it's racist against Arabs.

And the term "racist" when used as an adjective is not plural, so you should quit putting an "s" on the end when it doesn't belong. Thanks.
i still don't see how referring to someone's middle name as being racist, no "s".


does that make boutons a racist? "dubya"

[timvp]

Barack is proud of his name. That's why he wanted people to start calling him Barack instead of his nickname, Barry.Imagine that whottt conundrum.

[Extra Stout]

Enough of a proportion to keep from being able to rally the evangelical vote the way Bush did (the only reason he won in 2004). A lot of people would convince themselves they're not racist but then find a way to rationalize not voting for a black man, just like they will this November 4th.
The true test there would not be whether white evangelicals will or won't vote for a black liberal, since most of them won't vote for a white liberal either. The true test would be whether they would vote for a black conservative. Powell is no conservative.

I do think there is a percentage for whom it makes a real difference, but quantifying that is hard. All I can offer are anecdotes of individuals saying, "America isn't ready for a black President," or saying things like, "I'm focusing on how Biden will run the country, because that black guy won't last a week before he gets taken out." I don't remember anybody at my church talking about murdering John Kerry.

[baseline bum]

The true test there would not be whether white evangelicals will or won't vote for a black liberal, since most of them won't vote for a white liberal either. The true test would be whether they would vote for a black conservative. Powell is no conservative.

I do think there is a percentage for whom it makes a real difference, but quantifying that is hard. All I can offer are anecdotes of individuals saying, "America isn't ready for a black President," or saying things like, "I'm focusing on how Biden will run the country, because that black guy won't last a week before he gets taken out." I don't remember anybody at my church talking about murdering John Kerry.

I can't wait to see what the Bradley Effect is going to be like on this election. I wonder if it will be shifted ahead a few days in the polls since people are now more aware of it after the media has started discussing it.

[MannyIsGod]

Man this is a good question!

First off, anyone who wants to know the true character of Powell should read Woodward's books. They are excellent and they point out exactly how Powell was basically the only voice of calm in an administration that wanted to go after Iraq from day one.

I think Powell would win. But man, I'm not sure. Powell always appealed to me because he doesn't want the power. Those are usually the kind of people that can actually lead very well.

I don't know though. That's a really interesting hypothetical.

[DarrinS]

Powell would still own anybody in a presidential election. I hope whoever wins brings him back to State.


Are you being serious? I never can tell with you.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you being serious? I never can tell with you.Quite serious.

[MannyIsGod]

Quite serious.

I think he's done. I don't think he'll serve if asked.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably not, but it couldn't hurt to ask. He might take the opportunity to rehab the country's foreign relations.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't expect him to endorse anyone, but I wonder what he would have done if the race had been closer.

[timvp]

Powell is one of the most bad azz Americans of the last twenty years. That said, if I'm going to knock McCain for being too old, Powell's gotta be just about the same age so I'd have to hold that against him. 2008 Powell versus 2008 Obama, it'd be tougher but I'd probably side with Obama for much of the same reasons why I'll likely vote for Obama over McCain.

1996 or 2000 Powell would be a different story.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, I didn't realize he was 71.

Consultant or special envoy would be the most that could be hoped for these days.

[baseline bum]

Holy shit, Powell is 71? He sure doesn't look it at all. I thought he was in his late 50s - early 60s.

Powell before Iraq would have been one of the best candidates in history at getting independent voters. Now however, he'd have no chance because he tried to cover Bush's ass.

[MannyIsGod]

I had no idea he was that old. Wow.

[Ocotillo]

I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and I can't think of one person that feels the way you just described.

I am not going to go there about whether Southern Baptists would vote for an African American or not but I too was raised as a Southern Baptist and I do know the Evangelical vote within the GOP is why John McCain ended up being the nominee rather than Mitt Romney.

Also, I think Powell is pro-choice which would also cause him problems with the Dobson types. Heck, McCain is pro-life and Dobson still doesn't like him.

[DarrinS]

Powell is one of the most bad azz Americans of the last twenty years. That said, if I'm going to knock McCain for being too old, Powell's gotta be just about the same age so I'd have to hold that against him. 2008 Powell versus 2008 Obama, it'd be tougher but I'd probably side with Obama for much of the same reasons why I'll likely vote for Obama over McCain.

1996 or 2000 Powell would be a different story.


Back then, Powell would wipe the floor with Obama. Today, I think his rep is too scarred from any involvement with Bush Jr.
It's a damn shame, because that man was loved across the board.

I think I'm just jealous because the freakin Dems are going to have the first black president and it could've been the GOP. FUUUUUUUCK!!!!

I swear I hate GWB..

[SpursFanFirst]

A lot of people would convince themselves they're not racist but then find a way to rationalize not voting for a black man, just like they will this November 4th.

:lmao So...if we don't vote for Obama, it's because he's black? Interesting.

[Shastafarian]

There's no doubt Powell is a great military mind. But I'm not sure he would wipe the floor with anyone. We really have no idea is he has any grasp on the economy. This isn't the 1950s when a popular general can just win the presidency on heroism alone.

[DarrinS]

There's no doubt Powell is a great military mind. But I'm not sure he would wipe the floor with anyone. We really have no idea is he has any grasp on the economy. This isn't the 1950s when a popular general can just win the presidency on heroism alone.



Why does everyone assume Mr. Obama is an expert on the economy? Does he have a degree in economics?

[hater]

Powell fucked up because he hung out with Bush for a little too long. He quit too late. He will always be remembered as the idiot who claimed there are WMD in Iraq. His career is done.

what could he really say to Obama. Sad, he is probably scared to even go out of his house

[baseline bum]

:lmao So...if we don't vote for Obama, it's because he's black? Interesting.

You're a fucking dumbass. This is an established factor in elections when there is a black candidate. I fucking hate how racism is some kind of taboo that people always want to sweep under the rug. If you honestly think there aren't going to be people voting against Obama specifically because he's black, I'd like to buy a plane ticket to travel to your fairytale world.

[SpursFanFirst]

I fucking hate how racism is some kind of taboo that people always want to sweep under the rug. If you honestly think there aren't going to be people voting against Obama specifically because he's black, I'd like to buy a plane ticket to travel to your fairytale world.

And I hate how there are people like you always trying to make an issue black vs. white.

Do you think EVERYONE is out to get you? There's a word for that...paranoia.

[baseline bum]

And I hate how there are people like you always trying to make an issue black vs. white.

Do you think EVERYONE is out to get you? There's a word for that...paranoia.

How am I trying to make every issue black vs. white? I'm pointing out there is a lot of closet racism in this country, which is undeniable unless you're living in some fantasy land.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm pointing out there is a lot of closet racism in this country, which is undeniable unless you're living in some fantasy land.

Given the tenor of this election, I'm literally gobsmacked that this could be shocking to anyone.

[SpursFanFirst]

No one denies that racism is out there.
But there will always be someone who is racist...that doesn't mean you can generalize the way you have - Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. or Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man. or I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.

Believe it or not, not every white person who votes for someone other than Obama is racist. Not every Southern Baptist is racist.

[baseline bum]

No one denies that racism is out there.
But there will always be someone who is racist...that doesn't mean you can generalize the way you have - Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. or Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man. or I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.

Believe it or not, not every white person who votes for someone other than Obama is racist. Not every Southern Baptist is racist.

You've got your head buried in the sand if you think none of the attacks on Obama from the religious right are racially motivated. Being black is a huge strike against a candidate in an election like this, and look at the map and tell me whether or not it's the Jim Crow states that are consistently the most red. A black man like Powell would never motivate the conservative base as it stands right now.

[SpursFanFirst]

I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.

Your assumptions that someone won't vote for Obama simply because he's black is as asinine as assuming all black people will vote for Obama because he is black.

For the record, the man is half white....but I'm sure you know that.

[baseline bum]

I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.

Your assumptions that someone won't vote for Obama simply because he's black is as asinine as assuming all black people will vote for Obama because he is black.

For the record, the man is half white....but I'm sure you know that.

Are you serious? Are you saying his skin color has absolutely no bearing on whether people will vote for him? You can't possibly believe this. You're just trying to be like Whottt, right?

[SpursFanFirst]

Are you serious? Are you saying his skin color has absolutely no bearing on whether people will vote for him? You can't possibly believe this. You're just trying to be like Whottt, right?

What's the reason for not voting for him if the person voting is black? Is it still racism?

[CuckingFunt]

I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.

Your assumptions that someone won't vote for Obama simply because he's black is as asinine as assuming all black people will vote for Obama because he is black.

For the record, the man is half white....but I'm sure you know that.

Recognizing that race is still an important issue in this country is not the same thing as "playing the victim."

[baseline bum]

Congrats on the Whottt-level response, SFF.

[SpursFanFirst]

Congrats on the Whottt-level response, SFF.

So....no response?

Seriously...
There are lots of black people out there not voting for Obama. What's the reason? Are they secretly racist? Do they not want to see another black rise to power?

[baseline bum]

It's absolutely ridiculous the way the right seems to believe this is a nation that has eradicated racism. It's no stretch of the imagination to conjecture that mostly-white voters of a mostly-white party that likes to consistently blame a lot of the country's problems on minorities would not support a black man. It's common sense.

[CuckingFunt]

What's the reason for not voting for him if the person voting is black? Is it still racism?

Logic this flawed literally hurts my brain.

Stating that race will be considered by some voters isn't even remotely close to stating that racism is the only reason people won't vote for Obama. Those two assertions are miles apart. To deny that there are many different reasons people won't be voting for Obama would be ignorant, but to deny that race is, for some voters, one of those reasons is equally so.

[Shastafarian]

Do you really believe racism is not a reason some people will vote against Obama?

[baseline bum]

Logic this flawed literally hurts my brain.

Stating that race will be considered by some voters isn't even remotely close to stating that racism is the only reason people won't vote for Obama. Those two assertions are miles apart.

Yeah, arguments like that are proof our math education in this country is bullshit.

[CuckingFunt]

Yeah, arguments like that are proof our education in this country is bullshit.

Fixed.

[SpursFanFirst]

It's absolutely ridiculous the way the right seems to believe this is a nation that has eradicated racism. It's no stretch of the imagination to conjecture that a mostly-white voters of a mostly-white party that likes to consistently blame a lot of the country's problems on minorities would not support a black man. It's common sense.

I think it's a perfectly legitimate question.
Are you just going to avoid answering it?

And I have not said there isn't racism in this country. Guess what? There always will be.
And there will always be men in the workplace who feel like women don't belong.
So what?

A few bad apples...
you know the rest.

[baseline bum]

Fixed.

Math especially. In a rigorous math class someone learns how to construct valid arguments that can lead to conclusions based only on the soundness of their principles.

[SpursFanFirst]

Do you really believe racism is not a reason some people will vote against Obama?

Sure...there will be some who won't vote for him based on his skin color.
But BB made generalizations earlier about "the southern baptists" and "evangelicals," etc...

[baseline bum]

I think it's a perfectly legitimate question.
Are you just going to avoid answering it?

And I have not said there isn't racism in this country. Guess what? There always will be.
And there will always be men in the workplace who feel like women don't belong.
So what?

A few bad apples...
you know the rest.

No, a black person who votes against a black person is not necessarily racist. This statement means shit unless you're trying to argue that I'm saying any white person who votes against a black man is racist. Now answer my fucking question.

[CuckingFunt]

I think it's a perfectly legitimate question.
Are you just going to avoid answering it?

And I have not said there isn't racism in this country. Guess what? There always will be.
And there will always be men in the workplace who feel like women don't belong.
So what?

A few bad apples...
you know the rest.

The "few bad apples" idea doesn't work when racism in this country is systemic, and not just individual.

[SpursFanFirst]

No, a black person who votes against a black person is not necessarily racist. This statement means shit unless you're trying to argue that I'm saying any white person who votes against a black man is racist. Now answer my fucking question.

What was your question?

[Shastafarian]

Sure...there will be some who won't vote for him based on his skin color.
But BB made generalizations earlier about "the southern baptists" and "evangelicals," etc...

Well I would wager the instances of racism showing up at the polls would be concentrated in the south where those religions dominate.

[Nbadan]

Math especially. In a rigorous math class someone learns how to construct valid arguments that can lead to conclusions based only on the soundness of their principles.

It's called mathematical proofs....you use Axioms, lemmas and such...

[CuckingFunt]

Sure...there will be some who won't vote for him based on his skin color.
But BB made generalizations earlier about "the southern baptists" and "evangelicals," etc...

Again, a flaw in logic.

One of the first comments you responded to was that "racist southern bible beaters" wouldn't vote for Powell because he's Black. You took that as a generalization that all Southern Baptists are racist. It's not. At all. It doesn't mention the Baptist faith specifically, for one thing. For another, it makes absolutely no assertion, one way or the other, about the number of "southern bible beaters" that are racist. It merely suggests that those who are "racist southern bible beaters" wouldn't support a Black candidate. I suspect that's a pretty accurate prediction.

[baseline bum]

It's called mathematical proofs....you use Axioms, lemmas and such...

Axioms don't prove anything. Axioms are assumptions that usually can't be proved either way, such as the Axiom of Choice and the axioms of ZF.

[baseline bum]

Again, a flaw in logic.

One of the first comments you responded to was that "racist southern bible beaters" wouldn't vote for Powell because he's Black. You took that as a generalization that all Southern Baptists are racist. It's not. At all. It doesn't mention the Baptist faith specifically, for one thing. For another, it makes absolutely no assertion, one way or the other, about the number of "southern bible beaters" that are racist. It merely suggests that those who are "racist southern bible beaters" wouldn't support a Black candidate. I suspect that's a pretty accurate prediction.

Nah, I meant that a pretty good proportion of bible beaters are racists. The way I wrote it is unclear though, and does essentially boil down to racist bible beater = racist, when I wanted to express that the intersection of racists and bible beaters is a pretty large set big enough to make sure that a black man could never get the needed support of the evangelical conservative base to offset the independents and lefties who are rightfully pissed at him for his role in selling the joke of a war.

[Nbadan]

Axioms don't prove anything. Axioms are assumptions that usually can't be proved either way, such as the Axiom of Choice and the axioms of ZF.

...unless, or until, they are proven incorrect, Axioms are assumed to be correct and they are used as a bases for mathematical proofs in ZF....

[baseline bum]

...unless, or until, they are proven incorrect, Axioms are assumed to be correct and they are used as a bases for mathematical proofs in ZF....

Mathematical argument should be emphasized way more than simple calculation in our educational system.

[shelshor]

Well I would wager the instances of racism showing up at the polls would be concentrated in the south where those religions dominate.

?Ever been to South Boston? Indiana?

[SpursFanFirst]

?Ever been to South Boston? Indiana?

Ummmm...What's wrong with Indiana? :huh

[MannyIsGod]

I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.

Your assumptions that someone won't vote for Obama simply because he's black is as asinine as assuming all black people will vote for Obama because he is black.

For the record, the man is half white....but I'm sure you know that.

How many times have you been pulled over and had your car searched because of the color of your skin? I'm sure thats not a situation you're sick and tired of, is it?

BTW, pointing out that he is half white is like saying a man who lost his leg still has one left. There is no such thing as "half-white" in this country, there is only "half black". I'm not too sure you'll understand the nuance, but its beyond true.

[MannyIsGod]

Ummmm...What's wrong with Indiana? :huh

sigh.

It was pointing out how your thoughts that racism is somehow confined to the South as incorrect.

[Findog]

Ummmm...What's wrong with Indiana? :huh

Current headquarters of the KKK.

[SpursFanFirst]

sigh.

It was pointing out how your thoughts that racism is somehow confined to the South as incorrect.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he wasn't making that comment directly to me, as I'm sure he didn't know I live in Indiana.
He also mentioned Boston. I don't know anything about Boston.

[SpursFanFirst]

How many times have you been pulled over and had your car searched because of the color of your skin? I'm sure thats not a situation you're sick and tired of, is it?

Obviously, this has never happened to me..but I'm sure it has never happened to the majority of people out there, regardless of the color of their skin.


BTW, pointing out that he is half white is like saying a man who lost his leg still has one left. There is no such thing as "half-white" in this country, there is only "half black". I'm not too sure you'll understand the nuance, but its beyond true.

Whatever, Manny. I'm not the first person out there to mention he's half white.

[SpursFanFirst]

Current headquarters of the KKK.

Oh yes, I forgot...those morons speak for ALL of Indiana. In fact, every person here in this state is somehow affiliated with the KKK.
This MUST be why Obama has been here practically every other week campaigning. He feels he can turn the hate of every person here around.

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously, this has never happened to me..but I'm sure it has never happened to the majority of people out there, regardless of the color of their skin.



Whatever, Manny. I'm not the first person out there to mention he's half white.

Oh you're sure are you? I'm sure it hasn't happaned to the majority of people either, since the majority of people are white.

But the majority of minorities? I don't know, depends on where they live. I live in a hispanic dominated city and yet I've somehow managed to have it happen to me more than once. Amazing isn't it, considering racism is dead?

As for the second part I didn't expect you to get the nuance.

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, I'm pretty sure he wasn't making that comment directly to me, as I'm sure he didn't know I live in Indiana.
He also mentioned Boston. I don't know anything about Boston.

I'm really really really trying hard not to be a condescending asshole mainly because I think you're a nice person and not the usual type of poster in this forum but you're making it extremely difficult with these answers.

I just explained to you what Shelshor's response to you meant.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh yes, I forgot...those morons speak for ALL of Indiana. In fact, every person here in this state is somehow affiliated with the KKK.
This MUST be why Obama has been here practically every other week campaigning. He feels he can turn the hate of every person here around.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT EVERYONE IN INDIANA IS A RACIST. Jesus christ please stop painting everything with such broad strokes.

This is about as simple as it can be broken down and several people have already tried to explain it to you. When the subject of racism is brought up as a factor in this election that does not mean that every white person is a racist. Something being a factor does not mean it is a factor for EVERYONE but it doesn't take EVERYONE to make a difference.

[SpursFanFirst]

Oh you're sure are you? I'm sure it hasn't happaned to the majority of people either, since the majority of people are white.

But the majority of minorities? I don't know, depends on where they live. I live in a hispanic dominated city and yet I've somehow managed to have it happen to me more than once. Amazing isn't it, considering racism is dead?

As for the second part I didn't expect you to get the nuance.

I'm sorry....Point to the comment where I said racism is dead?

[SpursFanFirst]

sigh.

It was pointing out how your thoughts that racism is somehow confined to the South as incorrect.

Where in the world did I mention that racism is confined to the south?
I never said that!

[MannyIsGod]

Right here


I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.

Or was your assertion that when the color of my skin makes me a victim I should simply shut up and take it?

[MannyIsGod]

Where in the world did I mention that racism is confined to the south?
I never said that!

Doh, you didn't. I attributed someone else's post to you and I apologize for that.

[SpursFanFirst]

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT EVERYONE IN INDIANA IS A RACIST. Jesus christ please stop painting everything with such broad strokes.

This is about as simple as it can be broken down and several people have already tried to explain it to you. When the subject of racism is brought up as a factor in this election that does not mean that every white person is a racist. Something being a factor does not mean it is a factor for EVERYONE but it doesn't take EVERYONE to make a difference.

I'm not the one "painting this in broad strokes."
I didn't start this...BB did by insinuating that that evangelicals and southern baptists and whatnot wouldn't vote for a black man, etc.

And there have been others on here that assume, if you don't vote for the black man, it must be for racial reasons...there can't possibly be another explanation.

[MannyIsGod]

Evangelicals and southern baptists are far less likely to vote for a black man. That's a fact. You can dispute it all you want but social demographics are what they are and there is a lot of sociological evidence to back this up.

[SpursFanFirst]

Right here



Or was your assertion that when the color of my skin makes me a victim I should simply shut up and take it?


Nope. there are lots of people out there who truly are the victims of race or gender. I understand that.
But I also know there are people out there who look at that see themselves as victims because they have the same color of skin or the same gender.

Obviously, I'm a female, as indicated by my avatar...if I didn't get a promotion at work, I'd never say..."Oh, it's because I'm a woman. I bet so and so got it because he's a man, and this place doesn't appreciate women in the workplace."
That's just one example, but I feel this happens when race is involved a lot too.

It seems so many feel entitled to jobs or whatever simply because of past inequities.

[SpursFanFirst]

Doh, you didn't. I attributed someone else's post to you and I apologize for that.

That's cool.

[MannyIsGod]

Nope. there are lots of people out there who truly are the victim of race or gender. I understand that.
But I also know there are people out there who look at that see themselves as victims because they have the same color of skin or the same gender.

Obviously, I'm a female, as indicated by my avatar...if I didn't get a promotion at work, I'd never say..."Oh, it's because I'm a woman. I bet so and so got it because he's a man, and this place doesn't appreciate women in the workplace."
That's just one example, but I feel this happens when race is involved a lot too.

It seems so many feel entitled to jobs or whatever simply because of past inequities.

Let me ask you this, do you ever wonder why women on average make less then men? Do you feel its because women on average are inferior workers?

[MannyIsGod]

OR, why are there so many more black men in jail? Is it because black men are more likely to be criminals?

[SpursFanFirst]

Let me ask you this, do you ever wonder why women on average make less then men? Do you feel its because women on average are inferior workers?

Nope. Not at all.
I'm in the workforce, and perhaps I make less than my co-workers...I don't know.
If I found out I made less than them - well sure, I'm think that sucks...if in fact I made less due to the fact I'm a women.
But I'm not going to sit around and whine about it.
I have a job. I make pretty decent money. I enjoy what I do. I'm grateful.

[MannyIsGod]

Nope. Not at all.
I'm in the workforce, and perhaps I make less than my co-workers...I don't know.
If I found out I made less than them - well sure, I'm think that sucks...if in fact I made less due to the fact I'm a women.
But I'm not going to sit around and whine about it.
I have a job. I make pretty decent money. I enjoy what I do. I'm grateful.

So what you're saying is better to sit and take inequality as opposed to speaking up against it? Wow.

[SpursFanFirst]

OR, why are there so many more black men in jail? Is it because black men are more likely to be criminals?

Honestly, I've never sat down and read statistics on this or pondered it.

I will say this though - I work in news. On a daily basis, when doing crime-related stories, it would seem there are more black men or women involved in crimes.

We seem to have a pretty high crime rate in this city, especially this year. Most of that crime happens in the areas predominantly black.

I mean, I don't know. Coincidence?

[MannyIsGod]

Honestly, I've never sat down and read statistics on this or pondered it.

I will say this though - I work in news. On a daily basis, when doing crime-related stories, it would seem there are more black men or women involved in crimes.

We seem to have a pretty high crime rate in this city, especially this year. Most of that crime happens in the areas predominantly black.

I mean, I don't know. Coincidence?

I'm just going to say this. Coincidences don't happen on a large scale in society. You say you yourself have noticed some of these things, but have never thought to question why. What do you think this says? Is it possible on some subconscious level you associate black people with more likely to commit crimes because of this? Given that is a possible you'd have a predisposition to disliking Barak Obama?

Just think about that for a bit.

[SpursFanFirst]

So what you're saying is better to sit and take inequality as opposed to speaking up against it? Wow.

haha...no. If there was something I thought was seriously wrong, I'd say something.

But again, I'm not going to sit around and talk about how life is unfair because I'm a woman.

Here's an example though of something I've spoken out against in the workplace:
I work with a guy who is currently the acting news director.

We will never be "friends," as he and I seem to personally clash...but this does not mean I won't work with him and try to make things better in the workplace.
If he is producing my show, I will follow the same routine I use on a daily basis with other producers. I show him the respect I show them.
I don't get this in return from him.
Instead, if he has a question, he will instead ask my male co-worker for the answer...in front of me, no less.
If I point out a problem before the show, he will, on purpose, choose to leave the mistake in place and say it's because he wants it like that.
If my co-worker pointed it out, he would change it.

I know this. I have tried talking to him, to no avail. Eventually, I took the problem to my boss.

My point is this - it is an isolated problem. I don't think every male at the station views women in the same light; therefore, I'm not going to take my feelings about this man out on everyone else. I'm not going to assume that every man feels the way he does.

[SpursFanFirst]

I'm just going to say this. Coincidences don't happen on a large scale in society. You say you yourself have noticed some of these things, but have never thought to question why. What do you think this says? Is it possible on some subconscious level you associate black people with more likely to commit crimes because of this? Given that is a possible you'd have a predisposition to disliking Barak Obama?

Just think about that for a bit.

No. I'm just being honest. It's not something I'm interested in finding information on, so I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
I know it's out there though. And I recognize the crime stories as typically being in a particular part of town.
I can't speak for other cities - only what I've witnessed here.
If there is a crime in this city, probably 7 or 8 times out of 10, there is a black person involved.
I recognize this, but I don't then sit around thinking every black person is bad and will most likely commit a crime.

This has nothing to do with Obama. I simply don't trust him. It has nothing to do with him being black. I couldn't care less.
I said yesterday that I'd vote for Colin Powell in a heartbeat.
If Rice was running for office, I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.

I think Obama is a slick talker. I think he says and does alot of things to simply win the vote...he changes with the moment based on what will make him more popular.
I felt the same way about Kerry.
And McCain? I'm not completely sold on him anymore either.

[DarrinS]

I'm only voting for the black half of Obama.


I hate white people. They're all racist scum.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I'm just going to say this. Coincidences don't happen on a large scale in society. You say you yourself have noticed some of these things, but have never thought to question why. What do you think this says? Is it possible on some subconscious level you associate black people with more likely to commit crimes because of this? Given that is a possible you'd have a predisposition to disliking Barak Obama?

Just think about that for a bit.

:tu

congratulations on the race baiting there. your "i'm a proud liberal" bumper sticker is in the mail.

just wow.

[MannyIsGod]

Well i think its fine that people think they can be surrounded - by self admission here - negative images of black people and then expect to make a decision on a black man without that factoring in. Sadly, the human brain does not work in that manner. But if you want to ignore simple sociology thats not my problem.

[SpursFanFirst]

:lol OK...well, Manny and I are obviously at an impasse.
That's fine.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I am not voting for Obama, and it is NOT because he's black. I couldn't care less.

If he wins, I hope he'll be successful. This country needs something good right about now.

[CuckingFunt]

Honestly, I've never sat down and read statistics on this or pondered it.

I will say this though - I work in news. On a daily basis, when doing crime-related stories, it would seem there are more black men or women involved in crimes.

We seem to have a pretty high crime rate in this city, especially this year. Most of that crime happens in the areas predominantly black.

I mean, I don't know. Coincidence?

Wow.

Have you ever questioned the correlation between the crimes you're researching and they fact they're going to be presented as news?

Or have you ever questioned that perhaps the crime rate in these areas is due not to race, but rather decades upon decades of systemic oppression, based largely on issues of both race and class, predicated on the need to keep certain people within the lower income, high crime, predominantly black neighborhoods?

[SpursFanFirst]

Wow.

Have you ever questioned the correlation between the crimes you're researching and they fact they're going to be presented as news?

Or have you ever questioned that perhaps the crime rate in these areas is due not to race, but rather decades upon decades of systemic oppression, based largely on issues of both race and class, predicated on the need to keep certain people within the lower income, high crime, predominantly black neighborhoods?

:lol I'm not the reporter. I'm a director.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

this whole back and forth of this reminds of an article that ran in the Observer up here about all the crime that was happening here in Deep Ellum right before it went to hell. racial tensions were high down there. it's funny the paper adamantly stated that it wasn't a black or white issue yet all the people in cuffs they pictured were all black. just something i thought i'd interject.