George Bush: Worst President in US History? [Archive]

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TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 12:10 AM

Has there ever been a President in our nation's history that has presided over more disasters (foreign, economic, natural, etc.) than Bush?

-9/11
-Katrina
-Economic Meltdown - Worst since Great Depression
-Enhanced interrogation/torture/extraordinary rendition
-Turned billion dollar surplus into billion dollar debt
-Added trillions of dollars to our national debt
-Weakening of the dollar
-Halliburton/Blackwater
-The U.S. attorney scandals
-Alienation of U.S. allies
-FISA/illegal wiretapping
-Worst of all - an increasingly divided and polarized nation

This is just off the top of my head. It's incredible when you think about just how spectacular a failure he was with full Republican control for the majority of time he was in office. Just incredible.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 12:18 AM

You forgot the worst two things he did:

1) Go to war with Iraq on bullshit intelligence from a shady source that turned out false.
2) Completely disregard Powell, the State Department, and the Army and go all-out with the ridiculous plan for war that Rumsfeld and Cheney devised. It's almost like Cheney's plan was to ensure chaos in Iraq.

9/11 can't really be blamed on Bush, and Katrina could have killed far fewer had there been any real leadership in New Orleans and in Louisiana. The rest of your points are fair game though.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 12:20 AM

And yes, he's easily the worst president the US has ever had the misfortune of having.

velik_m

10-10-2008, 12:24 AM

Afghan war is a complete mess too. Also: Where is Osama?

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 12:27 AM

Afghan war is a complete mess too. Also: Where is Osama?

At least that war is justified.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 12:28 AM

Oh shit how did I forget about Iraq?

Good God, I can't even keep track of his fuckups anymore.

Colombiano972

10-10-2008, 12:28 AM

No mention of NCLB?

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 12:31 AM

No mention of NCLB?

Wow. Yeah, teaching a standardized test in class is a joke. I knew Bush would push it nationwide though after seeing him do it in Texas as governor.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 12:31 AM

Are we forgetting anything now?

IronMexican

10-10-2008, 12:35 AM

He has silly ears.

Colombiano972

10-10-2008, 12:36 AM

Are we forgetting anything now?

Bush Doctrine and how promotes all this BS preventive war and intervention crap.

Cry Havoc

10-10-2008, 12:38 AM

Are we forgetting anything now?

Wanting to lift the conservation laws was a huge negative mark from me, but most probably don't remember it.

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 12:50 AM

Medicare Part D

Obstructed_View

10-10-2008, 01:22 AM

9/11 can't really be blamed on Bush.

One word: Thermite.

And those missiles didn't put themselves on those "airliners".

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 01:25 AM

the thermite wouldn't have blown if the green smoke was seen in time

DMX7

10-10-2008, 01:36 AM

Bush was taking month long vacations prior to 9/11. I use to dislike him but now I just feel sorry for him. He just doesn't have the capacity to lead and we've all paid the price for it.

byrontx

10-10-2008, 04:12 AM

Besides trying to eliminate environmental legal protections he did see to it that they were not enforced. How about politicizing the Justice Department so to use the government as an extension of the Republican party (Nixon would have been so jealous!)? We can proudly claim to have tortured more people than Putin's (Bush's soul-mate) Russia. Did we already mention the deficits? How about slapping down those ungrateful working-class people by taking away time-and-a half overtime? Those revisions to the bankruptcy laws are really going to kick in now to benefit the same companies that are tapping the borrower's tax money.

The irony of tossing someone out of their house and raking their ass over in bankruptcy court while using the poor saps tax money to enhance the value of the lender's stock is so deliciously Republican.

smeagol

10-10-2008, 07:59 AM

Carter was pretty bad too . . .

MannyIsGod

10-10-2008, 08:02 AM

You must be crazy. Bush is getting a face on Rushmore right next to Washington. Everyone knows this.

j-6

10-10-2008, 08:38 AM

You must be crazy. Bush is getting a face on Rushmore right next to Washington. Everyone knows this.

Yoni, you around?

Supergirl

10-10-2008, 08:41 AM

ANd yet, I guarantee, he doesn't care, because the pockets of big oil CEOs got richer, and he's not going to be living in poverty during this recession, either. And that's pretty much all he's ever cared about.

How he gets to call himself a patriot or a Christian, I don't know. We should strip him of both titles.

Crookshanks

10-10-2008, 09:15 AM

typical liberal, bash Bush bs thread. I'm so tired of all your crap.

DarrinS

10-10-2008, 09:19 AM

One word: Thermite.

And those missiles didn't put themselves on those "airliners".

FUCK you

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:21 AM

typical liberal, bash Bush bs thread. I'm so tired of all your crap.

You can participate in the thread too. If you think some of those issues have been unfairly tied to Bush, please say so... otherwise, STFU neocon bitch.

DarrinS

10-10-2008, 09:22 AM

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:25 AM

Democrats only care about average citizens.

Sincerely,
AIG Executives

That's funny, because AIG was bailed out by the Treasury, not Congress...

DarrinS

10-10-2008, 09:28 AM

That's funny, because AIG was bailed out by the Treasury, not Congress...

You get my point, no?

TheProfessor

10-10-2008, 09:35 AM

DarrinS

10-10-2008, 09:37 AM

Harry Truman had a very low approval rating. But, IMO, he was one of the best presidents.

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:46 AM

You get my point, no?

No, I don't. If you speak about the bailout, it didn't pass on Democrat majority.
Plus AIG was 'rescued' by a member of this administration before the bailout ever passed.

Back to Bush and his administration, I think it will take time to put his administration in perspective. One of the things people will wonder is why, if he was so terrible, he managed to get reelected. And the democrats might be guilty of that for putting a terrible candidate in Kerry.

TheProfessor

10-10-2008, 09:56 AM

Back to Bush and his administration, I think it will take time to put his administration in perspective. One of the things people will wonder is why, if he was so terrible, he managed to get reelected. And the democrats might be guilty of that for putting a terrible candidate in Kerry.
I think you have to differentiate between the Bush administration's ability to campaign, and their competence in governing. In terms of campaigning, the fact that he was able to win reelection is incredible. Kerry was probably not the best candidate to throw out there, but Republicans torpedoed him so effectively that you have to give them credit.

temujin

10-10-2008, 09:59 AM

Worse than Warren G. Harding would be pretty difficult, despite his short term. He was at least cognizant of his failures. His own words: "I am not fit for this office and should never have been here."

What will be difficult in addressing with Bush's legacy is the magnitude of the events with which he dealt. This made his failings on multiple fronts all the more epic in the end, but does that make him the worst president? It will take some time to put it in context.

I agree.

He could soon qualify for worst head of state of any country any time.

Just wait until the financial meltdown is complete.

Findog

10-10-2008, 10:00 AM

Worse than Warren G. Harding would be pretty difficult, despite his short term. He was at least cognizant of his failures. His own words: "I am not fit for this office and should never have been here."

What will be difficult in addressing with Bush's legacy is the magnitude of the events with which he dealt. This made his failings on multiple fronts all the more epic in the end, but does that make him the worst president? It will take some time to put it in context.

Warren Harding didn't lie this nation into an unnecessary and illegal war, so he gets the edge over Bush. About the worst thing that can be said about him is that he put the regulatory agencies in the hands of the very people that were supposed to be regulated.

Findog

10-10-2008, 10:01 AM

Back to Bush and his administration, I think it will take time to put his administration in perspective. One of the things people will wonder is why, if he was so terrible, he managed to get reelected. And the democrats might be guilty of that for putting a terrible candidate in Kerry.

Bush was a wartime incumbent. That is a POWERFUL strength to have in a re-election bid, and he still barely won by the skin of his teeth. I'm not sure that any Democrat besides Hillary could've beaten him in 2004, and she was to cowardly to run against him then. Obama was a state senator at the time.

TheProfessor

10-10-2008, 10:18 AM

Warren Harding didn't lie this nation into an unnecessary and illegal war, so he gets the edge over Bush. About the worst thing that can be said about him is that he put the regulatory agencies in the hands of the very people that were supposed to be regulated.
Are you talking about Harding or Bush? :lol

That's actually an interesting parallel between the two - cronyism.

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 10:24 AM

I'd give it to Wilson or possibly Carter. I don't think Carter had his own hit squad like Wilson did. From this point on whoever can protect us from a terrorist attack for less than 7 1/2 years will be labeled the worst president in my eyes.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 10:49 AM

No, I don't. If you speak about the bailout, it didn't pass on Democrat majority.
Plus AIG was 'rescued' by a member of this administration before the bailout ever passed.

Back to Bush and his administration, I think it will take time to put his administration in perspective. One of the things people will wonder is why, if he was so terrible, he managed to get reelected. And the democrats might be guilty of that for putting a terrible candidate in Kerry.

Um, Bush got re-elected because of single-issue voters who chose him because he pledged to make an amendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage. Christians fucked this country over again.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 10:52 AM

Bush was taking month long vacations prior to 9/11. I use to dislike him but now I just feel sorry for him. He just doesn't have the capacity to lead and we've all paid the price for it.

I forgot about that. In his first term, Bush was the laziest president in the history of this country. All he did was go on vacation to the ranch in Crawford.

Oh, Gee!!

10-10-2008, 10:55 AM

Nixon

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 10:58 AM

Um, Bush got re-elected because of single-issue voters who chose him because he pledged to make an amendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage. Christians fucked this country over again.

Its the dmes that let it be an issue in the first place. Notice how nobody's talked about gay marriage at all this year. If Kerry came out and said no legalized gay marriage while I'm in office. He might have got some votes

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 10:59 AM

Its the dmes that let it be an issue in the first place. Notice how nobody's talked about gay marriage at all this year. If Kerry came out and said no legalized gay marriage while I'm in office. He might have got some votes

The Dems aren't the party that hides behind the church to justify bigotry.

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 10:59 AM

For all the things president Bush has done poorly, he has done even more right. Even if you disagree with that, he is very far away from being the worse president.

Why are you liberals still worried about president Bush? Isn't it time to look forward, not back?

Say what you will. I give you this. If Barack Husien Obaama is elected, he will take the number 1 worse president spot easily. I honestly believe history will show such a thing, but that won't be till at least a couple decades that history gets things right. It took more than three decades to exonerate McCarthy.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:02 AM

For all the things president Bush has done poorly, he has done even more right. Even if you disagree with that, he is very far away from being the worse president.

Why are you liberals still worried about president Bush? Isn't it time to look forward not back?

Say what you will. I give you this. If Barack Husien Obaama is elected, he will take the number 1 worse president spot easily. I honestly believe history will show such a thing, but that won't be till at least a couple decades that history gets things right. It took more than three decades to exonerate McCarthy.

What exactly has Bush done right? And McCarthy? Are you fucking serious? He was justified because that anorexic fuck Ann Coulter said so?

Findog

10-10-2008, 11:03 AM

Nixon

No, I have to disagree. He was an able and competent President. His domestic policies were actually quite liberal by today's standards. His fault was using the federal machinery to screw his opponents. You could make a better case that he had the worst moral failings of all Presidents.

Oh, Gee!!

10-10-2008, 11:04 AM

It took more than three decades to exonerate McCarthy.

McCarthy was "exonarated" by Ann Coulter, right? nuff said.

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 11:07 AM

The Dems aren't the party that hides behind the church to justify bigotry.

And thats why they lose. Look at some of the dems that won seats for the Senate/House some actually leaned to the other side just a tad. The problem with the dems is that they are so far right they're off the fucking map. And they alienate moderates.

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 11:08 AM

You could make a better case that he had the worst moral failings of all Presidents.

Clinton had that, I don't condone adultery with cows

Findog

10-10-2008, 11:12 AM

Clinton had that, I don't condone adultery with cows

You don't condone sex with anybody, under any conditions, apparently.

But yeah, adultery = using the power of your office to persecute people. Real astute analysis there, sparky.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:15 AM

How many people would shed a tear if this fucker got assassinated?

FromWayDowntown

10-10-2008, 11:22 AM

I'd be interested, too, in knowing about the things that Bush got right that outweigh the extremely important things that he's screwed up. If there are so many of those things, surely a recitation of them won't be difficult for Wild Cobra to conjure (cue: "I'm not posting it because all of you libs will twist my words" rant).

I'm also interested to know how McCarthy was exonerated for anything.

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 11:26 AM

What exactly has Bush done right?

Several things. You just disagree, but others like what he has done. I'm not going to hash that out again. I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

And McCarthy? Are you fucking serious? He was justified because that anorexic fuck Ann Coulter said so?

Yes, I'm serious.

Read the released material related to Project Venona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project) some time. McCarthy was right about nearly everything he said, and those names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers) he withheld. He was not wrong about much. Besides, He was not part of the HAUC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HUAC) which was run by the democrat majority and targeted innocent people, but rather, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Permanent_Subcommittee_on_Investigations) which only subpoenaed government workers.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:28 AM

Several things. You just disagree, but others like what he has done. I'm not going to hash that out again. I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

Yes, I'm serious.

Read the released material related to Project Venona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project) some time. McCarthy was right about nearly everything he said, and those names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Americans_in_the_Venona_papers) he withheld. He was not wrong about much. Besides, He was not part of the HAUC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HUAC) which was run by the democrat majority and targeted innocent people, but rather, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Permanent_Subcommittee_on_Investigations) which only subpoenaed government workers.

:lmao @ your revisionist history.

Findog

10-10-2008, 11:29 AM

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:30 AM

"Bush did a lot of things right. Don't ask me to list them, you libtards just don't get it."

"McCarthy was exonerated."

Breathtaking stupidity and ignorance. Are you proud to be so stupid? I thought it was something to be ashamed of.

No, anti-intellectualism is a badge of honor to the right. Why do you think they keep throwing morons like Bush and Palin out to run the country?

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 11:34 AM

How many people would shed a tear if this fucker got assassinated?

wow. stay classy
:tu

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 11:36 AM

How many people would shed a tear if this fucker got assassinated?
A hell of allot more than if you were.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:37 AM

On further reflection, I think I would too, because then Cheney would become the fucking president.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:39 AM

A hell of allot more than if you were.

No one but you would be happy about it though, since I don't have the blood of thousands on my hands.

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 11:40 AM

wow. stay classy
:tu
i seemed to have left ", jackass" from my last post.

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 11:42 AM

i seemed to have left ", jackass" from my last post.

Have you ever made a post on this forum more than one sentence long? Please link me to any thread in which you've ever done any kind of analysis whatsoever. Most of the time you look like a bot programmed to come throw a neocon catchphrase on the forum every 20 minutes or so.

nkdlunch

10-10-2008, 11:44 AM

not only worst president of the USA. Worst president of any country

Supergirl

10-10-2008, 11:46 AM

not only worst president of the USA. Worst president of any country

Well, if you limit it to "president" perhaps...but let's not forget that Hitler was a democratically elected leader in Germany.

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 11:50 AM

Have you ever made a post on this forum more than one sentence long? Please link me to any thread in which you've ever done any kind of analysis whatsoever. Most of the time you look like a bot programmed to come throw a neocon catchphrase on the forum every 20 minutes or so.
to answer your question, yes. i believe in quality, not quantity. on with your wishing of death, bum. shake those haters off. :toast

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 11:52 AM

Well, if you limit it to "president" perhaps...but let's not forget that Hitler was a democratically elected leader in Germany.

one order of Godwin's Law coming right up.

Viva Las Espuelas

10-10-2008, 11:53 AM

not only worst president of the USA. Worst president of any country

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Idi_Amin_Dada_1978.jpg

perhaps?

ElNono

10-10-2008, 11:58 AM

not only worst president of the USA. Worst president of any country

No way. Not by any stretch of the imagination...

Supergirl

10-10-2008, 12:15 PM

one order of Godwin's Law coming right up.

I thought about that. I hate it when that happens. No matter how bad Bush has been he hasn't been as systematically hateful and cruel as Hitler was.

And by the way, even he said immediately after 9/11 that we must not look for scapegoats or take out our rage on Arab Americans.

timvp

10-10-2008, 01:38 PM

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 01:47 PM

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 01:58 PM

Bush's Reign of Error: A Timeline

By Nick Baumann and Dave Gilson

News: "You never know what your history is going to be like until long after you’re gone." —W.

2000

November Election fiasco; Sandra Day O'Connor gripes that a Gore win would ruin her retirement plans.
• Thousands of people are wrongly turned away from the polls in Florida due to a flawed voter "purge" list produced by a private company; many have names that bear slight similarities to those of felons. Bush wins Florida by 537 votes.

December Supreme Court: We have a winner!

2001

January Would-be labor secretary Linda Chavez revealed to have hired an illegal immigrant.
• Ousting Saddam Hussein discussed at first national security meeting.

February Dick Cheney secretly meets with oil executives to write energy policy.

March Bush nixes new standards for arsenic in drinking water.

May FEMA chief Joe Allbaugh says the administration plans to privatize many of FEMA's functions. Meanwhile, FEMA planners report a strong hurricane hitting New Orleans is "among the three likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

August Bush's monthlong vacation interrupted by intel briefing: Osama bin Laden "determined to strike in US."

September Terrorists attack; "The Pet Goat" is immortalized.
• White House pressures epa to downplay risks of breathing at ground zero.
• Bush: "This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile."

November Bin Laden escapes from Tora Bora.

December Attorney General John Ashcroft: Administration critics "give ammunition to America's enemies."
• Enron collapses; Bush disavows "Kenny Boy" Lay.
• White House begins planning the invasion of Iraq.

2002

January Gitmo's grand opening; Bush says Geneva Conventions don't apply there.

February Pentagon says it's closing its fake-news operation; Donald Rumsfeld later says it's still running.

March White House asks nsa to start warrantless wiretaps.
• Bush says he's "not that concerned" about finding bin Laden.

August Justice Dept. lawyers draft the "torture memo."

September Condoleezza Rice warns, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

November gop jams Democratic phones in New Hampshire election; White House is tied to one of the jammers.
• After fighting creation of 9/11 Commission, Bush names Henry Kissinger to head it. (He lasts 2 weeks.)

December FEMA head Allbaugh resigns. In 2003, he is replaced by his pal Michael Brown, who had been fired from his previous job at the International Arabian Horse Association.

2003

January In State of the Union, Bush cites "sexed up" British dossier saying Iraq sought uranium from Niger. The prez "is not a fact-checker," official later explains.

February Colin Powell presents phony Iraq intel at the un.
• Gigolo-turned-reporter Jeff Gannon gets a White House press pass.

March US invades Iraq. Bush says it comes down to the "single question" of wmd. Update: still looking...
• FEMA is downgraded and folded into the Department of Homeland Security.
• Halliburton wins $7 billion, 5-year, no-bid contract in Iraq.

April Pentagon pumps up rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch; she later says its tale was "hype."
• Rumsfeld on looting in Baghdad: "Stuff happens."

May Mission Accomplished!

June Janet Rehnquist, the inspector general for the Department of Health and Human Services, resigns. She delayed an audit of Florida's retirement system on behalf of Jeb Bush, then running for reelection as governor of Florida.

July Bush dares Iraqi insurgents: "Bring 'em on."
• Joseph Wilson blows the whistle on phony wmd claim; his wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, is outed as an undercover cia officer. Bush says he'll fire the leaker.

September Congress defunds Total Information Awareness. Fast-forward to 2008: The nsa is doing everything tia had planned to.

2004

March At the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association dinner, Bush mocks his administration's inability to find Saddam's nonexistent WMD: "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere."

April Abu Ghraib photos leaked; Bush says he'll "make sure this doesn't happen again."
• Pat Tillman killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan; Pentagon spins the story 180 degrees.
• White House bans photos of soldiers' flag-draped coffins.

May GAO reports the White House illegally created fake news reports to promote its Medicare bill.

June Two years later, Cheney is still pushing bogus link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

September The Justice Department admits its 2003 prosecution of a "terror cell" in Detroit was filled with "mistakes and oversights," asks for the convictions to be overturned.

October Unsolved mystery: What was the bulge on Bush's back during the presidential debates?

November Coalition Provisional Authority comptroller nabbed for taking $1 million in bribes. Fast-forward to 2008: $15 billion in US funds have gone mia in Iraq.

December Bernard Kerik named to head Dept. of Homeland Security. Too bad about the sketchy friends and ground zero love nest!
• Bush gives Presidential Medal of Freedom to ex-Iraq proconsul Paul Bremer and ex-cia chief George "Slam Dunk" Tenet.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 01:58 PM

2005

january USA Today reports that Armstrong Williams got $240K to shill for No Child Left Behind.

march Bush cuts vacation short to keep Terri Schiavo (and Jeb's career) alive.
• New York Times reports that TV stations aired hundreds of administration-made "video news releases" as news.

june Former lobbyist Philip Cooney quits White House Council on Environmental Quality—after editing global warming out of reports.
• A New Orleans newspaper reports that the local district of the US Army Corps of Engineers is facing a record cut in federal funding.

august Hurricane Katrina slams New Orleans. As storm approaches, fema staff is told to stand down; Wal-Mart delivers relief supplies. fema chief Michael Brown emails colleagues about how he looks on TV: "I am a fashion god"; he resigns 2 weeks later.

september: Bush says no one thought the levees would break; video later shows he as warned about it.

october Harriet Miers spends 24 days as Supreme Court nominee.
• Bush's deputy attorney general nominee Timothy Flanigan withdraws his name over his connections to Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff and torture memo.
• osha finds high levels of formaldehyde in fema trailers; more than 100,000 storm victims are housed in them anyway.

november Oil execs lie to Congress about secret meetings with Cheney.

2006

january Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff pleads guilty to corruption. Bush: "I don't know him." Abramoff: "Perhaps he has forgotten everything."

february Cheney shoots hunting pal in the face. Victim apologizes.
• nasa aide George Deutsch resigns; had gagged top climate scientist. (See Return of the Geeks.)

april Six retired generals say Rumsfeld should step down; Bush: "I'm the decider."
• Boston Globe uncovers Bush's signing-statement mania—now up to more than 1,100.

may cia head Porter Goss suddenly resigns; so does his No. 3, Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, later indicted for bribery.

june David Safavian, former head of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy at the Office of Management and Budget, is convicted of lying to investigators about his ties to Abramoff.

august Roger Stillwell, an Interior Department official, pleads guilty to failing to report hundreds of dollars of gifts from Abramoff. Stillwell regulated the Northern Mariana Islands, where Abramoff's corporate clients wanted to keep sweatshop wages low.

october Ex-fda chief Lester Crawford pleads guilty to hiding stock in the companies he regulated.

november Bush before midterm elections: Rumsfeld isn't going anywhere; one day after the vote: I lied—Rummy's outta here.

december Seven US attorneys are asked to resign for not being, in the words of a top Justice official, "loyal Bushies."

2007

february Washington Post finds roaches, mouse poop, neglect, and PO'd wounded vets at Walter Reed.

march Ex-Interior No. 2 J. Steven Griles pleads guilty to Abramoff-related obstruction.
• Congress looks into Rove aide's pro-gop campaign briefings to federal employees.
• Chinese import scare reveals lax oversight. (See The Chinavore's Dilemma.) Cheney aide "Scooter" Libby is convicted of lying; Bush commutes his sentence.

april White House says 5 million emails may be "lost." (See Control, Delete, Escape.)
• AG Alberto Gonzales testifies before Congress, says "I don't recall" 64 times.

may Iraq War architect Paul Wolfowitz resigns as World Bank head after giving perks to his in-house girlfriend.
• Terrorist watch list now has 755,000 names. Former doj official Monica Goodling admits that politics played a role in hiring and firing.
• Bush nominates James W. Holsinger Jr. for surgeon general. Holsinger thinks gay people can be "cured." He is never confirmed.

june Cheney discovered trying to dodge oversight by claiming he's not part of the executive branch.

july The Washington Post reports that a Bush political appointee with no "background or expertise in medicine or public health" kept secret a 2006 surgeon general's report because it "did not promote the administration's policy accomplishments."

august The Washington Post reports that the administration's vaunted terrorist screening database flagged 20,000 people in 2007 but produced very few arrests.
• Red Cross says cia's secret prisons use methods "tantamount to torture," violate international law. Gonzales steps down.

november The Fish and Wildlife Service announces that seven decisions made by Julie MacDonald, the former deputy assistant secretary for Fish, Wildlife and Parks, will be reversed. MacDonald, a civil engineer, had ignored the advice of staff scientists when issuing her decisions, which prevented endangered species from receiving higher levels of legal protection.

december State Dept. Inspector General Howard "Cookie" Krongard resigns after being accused of going easy on Blackwater—where brother "Buzzy" was on the advisory board.
• Congressional Democrats call for an investigation into cia's destruction of waterboarding videotapes.
• John Tanner resigns as head of the Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division's voting section. Tanner's colleagues accuse him of "institutional sabotage," for allegedly suppressing minority election turnout.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 01:58 PM

2008

february New York Times uncovers buried Army report blaming White House and Pentagon for mess in Iraq.

march Bush tells GIs in Afghanistan he's "a little envious" of them.
• Alphonso Jackson steps down as secretary of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Jackson had been under fire for HUD's awarding of a $127 million federal contract to his former employer, but HUD still spent up to $100,000 to paint and install Jackson's portrait in the department's new auditorium. At the time of his resignation, Jackson was being investigated by a federal grand jury, the Justice Department, and his own department's inspector general for alleged corruption.
George W. Bush golfing

april GAO finds the US has no plan to defeat Al Qaeda in Pakistan.

may FBI raids office of Special Counsel Scott Bloch, who may have erased files on whistleblowers. (His job: protecting federal whistleblowers.)
• Bush says to honor the troops, he hasn't golfed since August '03 (except for that time in October '03). Former White House flack Scott McClellan says Karl Rove lied about his role in the leak.

june News flash: doj hiring of lawyers was illegally politicized: 80% of "liberal" applicants were rejected.

july Ex-EPA official says Cheney's office edited CDC climate change report.
• Rove ignores House subpoena.
• Bidding farewell to G8, Bush reportedly punches air, says, "Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter."

august Back at his Crawford estate, Bush soars past his 950th day away from the office—easily beating Ronald Reagan's vacation record.

Nick Baumann is an assistant editor at the Mother Jones Washington, DC, Bureau.

Dave Gilson is a senior editor for Mother Jones.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/09/exit-strategy-reign-of-error.htm...

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:00 PM

You need to work on your own thoughts to copy and paste ratio.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:01 PM

You need to work on your own thoughts to copy and paste ratio.

Stop dodging the facts presented.

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:02 PM

Stop dodging the facts presented.Answer my post directly. Don't go to rehearsed talking points.

Xylus

10-10-2008, 02:03 PM

George W. Bush: Great President? ...Or the Greatest President?

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:04 PM

Answer my post directly. Don't go to rehearsed talking points.

hahahahaha

What would you like me to answer specifically? Something that I didn't help answer in the facts that were posted?

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:05 PM

hahahahaha

What would you like me to answer specifically? Something that I didn't help answer in the facts that were posted?I can't hold your hand. If you are going to challenge what timvp said, you'll have to do it on your own.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:08 PM

I can't hold your hand. If you are going to challenge what timvp said, you'll have to do it on your own.

That's 2 dodges. Keep going. I answered your post with facts that have been checked since 2000. I can go into my opinion but you keep dodging the facts that were presented. You're somewhat of a hypocrite (who types in third person) aren't you?

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:11 PM

That's 2 dodges. Keep going. I answered your post with facts that have been checked since 2000. I can go into my opinion but you keep dodging the facts that were presented. You're somewhat of a hypocrite (who types in third person) aren't you?I already responded to your talking points in the post that you originally quoted. Did you not read it all? I guess you skipping over the actual content isn't relegated solely to presidential debates . . .

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:13 PM

I already responded to your talking points in the post that you originally quoted. Did you not read it all? I guess you skipping over the actual content isn't relegated solely to presidential debates . . .

You responded by saying they were "talking points". That's a dodge, not a response. There's 3.

RandomGuy

10-10-2008, 02:13 PM

You need to work on your own thoughts to copy and paste ratio.

I think I am glad that someone catalogued the tragicomedy of errors from this administration.

Even taking out the somewhat tenuous stuff it is still a litany that makes one want to bury their heads in their hands.

The thing about a Kerry or Gore administration is that we will never truly know how much better off we would have been for the last 8 years.

Certainly a Democratic president with a GOP congress would not have had a rubber stamp in any event.

I am somewhat worried about the next Democratic president having a very friendly Democratic congress.

I guess we will get to see if the Dems really as as incopetant and bad for America as the GOP claims.

If, in 4-8 years, we have not collapsed as a civilization into a communist police state, I think it is safe to say that reports of the demise of the US was somewhat exaggerated.

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:15 PM

You responded by saying they were "talking points". That's a dodge, not a response. There's 3.You can't count. Go back and figure out again which was the first post of mine you quoted in this thread.

Damn, at least when I argue with whottt I don't have to do the legwork for both of us.

peewee's lovechild

10-10-2008, 02:17 PM

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:18 PM

You can't count. Go back and figure out again which was the first post of mine you quoted in this thread.

Damn, at least when I argue with whottt I don't have to do the legwork for both of us.

Whoops my mistake. I didn't count your first post. That would've made the previous one 4 but now it's 5. Keep going. You ever gonna respond to any of the facts presented in that history?

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:20 PM

Whoops my mistake. I didn't count your first post. That would've made the previous one 4 but now it's 5. Keep going. You ever gonna respond to any of the facts presented in that history?Can you not read? WTF?

You take Obamatardness to a whole new level.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:20 PM

Can you not read? WTF?

You take Obamatardness to a whole new level.

6

peewee's lovechild

10-10-2008, 02:23 PM

He's not the worst President in history, but he's pretty damn close.

Harding, Johnson, Grant . . . all those are probably worse.

I think Nixon might be considered the worst President, due to his character and Watergate, but he was a pretty good statesman and he did open up China to the U.S.

I don't know where I'd rank Bush, in terms of the worst Presidents, but he's definitely Top 5.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:27 PM

So instead of merely saying, "they're talking points" do you care to respond directly to any of them timvp? Or are you gonna keep dodging the history?

johnsmith

10-10-2008, 02:27 PM

Shasta, I don't think you are really understanding Timvp in this one.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:27 PM

Shasta, I don't think you are really understanding Timvp in this one.

Then explain it to me.

johnsmith

10-10-2008, 02:29 PM

He was just stating his belief on how Bush will be judged. He wasn't arguing whether or not the dude is the worst president ever or not. When you came back with your copy and paste job, you lost him because he didn't want to A.) Argue about it, and B.) that wasn't your opinion, which is really what he was looking for.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:32 PM

He was just stating his belief on how Bush will be judged. He wasn't arguing whether or not the dude is the worst president ever or not.Yes he was. He claims Bush won't be.

When you came back with your copy and paste job, you lost him because he didn't want to A.) Argue about it, So he's dodging the facts that contradict his opinion. Thanks for clearing that up

and B.) that wasn't your opinion, which is really what he was looking for.

My opinion is that the "copy and paste job" directly contradicts his opinions. He has yet to respond directly to anything Bush has actually done. He's a hypocrite.

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:32 PM

Just to recap for those scoring at home.

Worst President in US History?

All told, Bush will be remembered by how he reacted directly after 9/11

Let me copy and paste everything Bush has done in his whole presidency.

Go back to the original post you quoted to find the answer.

The second one?

No, the first one.

Are you ever going to answer the question?

I already told you where to find the answer.

I don't understand. Let me practice my counting.

johnsmith

10-10-2008, 02:33 PM

Yes he was. He claims Bush won't be.

So he's dodging the facts that contradict his opinion. Thanks for clearing that up

My opinion is that the "copy and paste job" directly contradicts his opinions. He has yet to respond directly to anything Bush has actually done. He's a hypocrite.

Dude, he's stating his opinion on how Bush will be judged............That was it.........

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:33 PM

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:35 PM

Just to recap for those scoring at home.

Here's a better recap:

Bush wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't the worst. He did more good than bad

[record of all the bad things Bush has done]

*sticks fingers in ears* what's your opinion though?

Are you gonna respond to the facts in the history?

I don't wanna *sticks thumb in mouth

I would keep going but this is a waste of time if you continue to refuse to respond to any of the facts I "copied and pasted".

johnsmith

10-10-2008, 02:36 PM

Here's a better recap:

I would keep going but this is a waste of time if you continue to refuse to respond to any of the facts I "copied and pasted".

Ya just don't get it do ya?

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:36 PM

Dude, he's stating his opinion on how Bush will be judged............That was it.........

Yeah and I posted FACTS that CONTRADICT his OPINIONS. Get it?

johnsmith

10-10-2008, 02:36 PM

Yeah and I posted FACTS that CONTRADICT his OPINIONS. Get it?

HIS POST WAS HIS OPINION ON WHAT BUSH WILL REALLY BE JUDGED ON WHEN LOOKED BACK AT 50 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:37 PM

:lol timvp KEEPS dodging the history of President Bush. Fine, let's start again from scratch. Let's say you didn't claim you were only stating your opinion and wanted to ignore facts. What do you think of all the things Bush has done?

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:37 PM

HIS POST WAS HIS OPINION ON WHAT BUSH WILL REALLY BE JUDGED ON WHEN LOOKED BACK AT 50 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!

Thank you for yelling. It is quite irrelevant.

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:39 PM

Bush wasn't the best but he certainly wasn't the worst. He did more good than bad

Bush has reigned over eight years that has definitely had more downs than ups.

So not only does this guy argue about a debate he didn't even watch, he argues about a post he didn't even read.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:41 PM

So not only does this guy argue about a debate he didn't even watch, he argues about a post he didn't even read.

What's the count up to now?

VaSpursFan

10-10-2008, 02:41 PM

So not only does this guy argue about a debate he didn't even watch, he argues about a post he didn't even read.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:42 PM

Just for clarification:

I did watch the debate. I went to the bathroom somewhere around 25 minutes in so I didn't catch every question.

I did read his post. It's called "exaggeration".

Gonna keep dodging the history hypocrite?

timvp

10-10-2008, 02:51 PM

Just for clarification:

I did watch the debate. I went to the bathroom somewhere around 25 minutes in so I didn't catch every question. The bathroom excuse :lmao

Gonna keep dodging the history hypocrite?Seriously bro, I don't know if maybe you are having a bad day or something but this has been the dumbest conversation I've ever engaged in during SpursTalk's history. Why would I have to dodge something that I acknowledge with my first sentence in the thread? I've already said Bush has done more bad than good. You posting a list of the bad strengthens my very first thought. If I argued against your list, I'd be arguing against myself.

You need to stop responding, print the thread and then read it. Perhaps then you can see how little sense you are making.

I'll give you a mulligan this time. Better luck next time :tu

Indazone

10-10-2008, 02:52 PM

Bush isn't to blame. He's just a puppet.

Check this video out with Aaron Russo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

also hold on to your tinfoil hats cause...

Rockefeller Admitted Elite Goal Of Microchipped Population
Hollywood director Russo goes in-depth for first time on the astounding admissions of Nick Rockefeller, including his prediction of 9/11 and the war on terror hoax, the Rockefeller's creation of women's lib, and the elite's ultimate plan for world population reduction and a microchipped society
VIDEO: Rumsfeld Says Flight 93 Shot Down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0v0_HDwg84&eurl=)
OTHER NEWS
__________
Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo has gone in-depth on the astounding admissions of Nick Rockefeller, who personally told him that the elite's ultimate goal was to create a microchipped population and that the war on terror was a hoax, Rockefeller having predicted an "event" that would trigger the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan eleven months before 9/11.

Rockefeller also told Russo that his family's foundation had created and bankrolled the women's liberation movement in order to destroy the family and that population reduction was a fundamental aim of the global elite.

Russo is perhaps best known for producing Trading Places starring Eddie Murphy but was more recently in the spotlight for his exposé of the criminal run for profit federal reserve system, the documentary America From Freedom to Fascism (http://www.freedomtofascism.com/).

Currently undergoing more treatment in his fight against cancer, Russo made time for a sit down interview with radio host and fellow documentary film maker Alex Jones in which he dropped bombshell after bombshell on what Rockefeller had told him about the direction the world was being steered towards by the global elite.

You can watch a fourteen minute segment of the interview below.

After his popular video Mad As Hell was released and he began his campaign to become Governor of Nevada, Russo was noticed by Rockefeller and introduced to him by a female attorney. Seeing Russo's passion and ability to affect change, Rockefeller set about on a subtle mission to recruit Russo into the elite.

During one conversation, Rockefeller asked Russo if he was interested in joining the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) but Russo rejected the invitation, saying he had no interest in "enslaving the people" to which Rockefeller coldly questioned why he cared about the "serfs."

"I used to say to him what's the point of all this," states Russo, "you have all the money in the world you need, you have all the power you need, what's the point, what's the end goal?" to which Rockefeller replied (paraphrasing), "The end goal is to get everybody chipped, to control the whole society, to have the bankers and the elite people control the world."

Rockefeller even assured Russo that if he joined the elite his chip would be specially marked so as to avoid undue inspection by the authorities

MannyIsGod

10-10-2008, 02:54 PM

This guy's made my heard hurt since he got here.

Spursreport, right? It makes sense if you think about it.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 02:57 PM

This guy's made my heard hurt since he got here.

Spursreport, right? It makes sense if you think about it.

Go find my posts at SpursReport. Please.

MannyIsGod

10-10-2008, 02:58 PM

K, you're not from Spursreport. You win, I guess.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Seriously bro, I don't know if maybe you are having a bad day or something but this has been the dumbest conversation I've ever engaged in during SpursTalk's history. Why would I have to dodge something that I acknowledge with my first sentence in the thread? I've already said Bush has done more bad than good. You posting a list of the bad strengthens my very first thought. If I argued against your list, I'd be arguing against myself.

You need to stop responding, print the thread and then read it. Perhaps then you can see how little sense you are making.

I'll give you a mulligan this time. Better luck next time :tu

Maybe it's because you rolled your eyes at the premise of the thread and called it "hyperbole". Me "copying and pasting" a history of Bush was a response to your claim of hyperbole. I think questioning whether he is the worst president is legitimate (even if I don't agree with it). You're dodging the notion all together instead of responding to that VERY long list of shit Bush has done. Maybe I was looking for a response to it rather than, "they're just talking points". Ever think of that?

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:01 PM

K, you're not from Spursreport. You win, I guess.

Never said that.

I don't enjoy being called a hypocrite so I found it funny when timvp dismissed a very long list of illegal/immoral activities as "talking points".

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:03 PM

The bathroom excuse :lmao

And I was in the bathroom. I had already downed 3 beers doing a debate drinking game. McCain just couldn't stop saying "my friends".

peewee's lovechild

10-10-2008, 03:06 PM

"The Shastafaritard"

:lol:lol:lol

peewee's lovechild

10-10-2008, 03:06 PM

I'm actually with timvp on this one.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:10 PM

I'm actually with timvp on this one.

That's fine. That's your opinion. It's my opinion timvp doesn't think Bush is one of the worst 5 presidents in our history and refuses to refute or agree with any of the facts presented in the history I posted.

timvp

10-10-2008, 03:14 PM

You should have stopped.

Maybe it's because you rolled your eyes at the premise of the thread and called it "hyperbole".Do you know what hyperbole means?

Me "copying and pasting" a history of Bush was a response to your claim of hyperbole.No, I can confidently say you don't know what hyperbole means. And you can quit putting quotes around that phrase since you did copy and paste.

You're dodging the notion all together instead of responding to that VERY long list of shit Bush has done.How can I dodge something that was my first sentence? I said he did a bad. You post bad. You agreed with me.

Maybe I was looking for a response to it rather than, "they're just talking points". Ever think of that?

I don't enjoy being called a hypocrite so I found it funny when timvp dismissed a very long list of illegal/immoral activities as "talking points".

Maybe that's where you went wrong.

Stop dodging the facts presented.Answer my post directly. Don't go to rehearsed talking points.You must have missed the intended irony of my post. Read it again and then figure it out.

You might have to print out and read the whole political forum if you don't understand :lol

MannyIsGod

10-10-2008, 03:16 PM

That's fine. That's your opinion. It's my opinion timvp doesn't think Bush is one of the worst 5 presidents in our history and refuses to refute or agree with any of the facts presented in the history I posted.

He said Bottom 25%, which would be down to about 8 presidents or so. So you're making yourself look like an idiot over about 3 presidents which I'm not sure you could name without going to some blog or wikipedia.

You did this with Whottt and those California comments. I don't know man, you just make my head hurt sometimes.

timvp

10-10-2008, 03:18 PM

It's my opinion timvp doesn't think Bush is one of the worst 5 presidents in our history:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

That f'n gold. You have an opinion on what my opinion is? What makes it even funnier is I already said bottom 25%. Math much?

and refuses to refute or agree with any of the facts presented in the history I posted.
I already agreed before you even posted it.

VaSpursFan

10-10-2008, 03:19 PM

this thread is funny...some serious pwnage going on in here!

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:20 PM

*sigh*

Yes I know what hyperbole means. Maybe you can't read good. You claimed the thread was hyperbole. Correct? I posted a history of events that showed that the thread was not hyperbole (with my understanding of the facts...which you have yet to comment directly on). Bush might be considered to be the worst president in history. Is it my view? Not necessarily but it is a valid question GIVEN THE FACTS I POSTED. I continue to quote "copy and pasted" because you used it as a diversion from you not actually responding directly to anything in the history. Why is that so hard to understand? Maybe you should go back and print out the thread to see if you get the irony...

FromWayDowntown

10-10-2008, 03:21 PM

I have my secret timvp decoder ring out -- I'm pretty sure that bottom 25% in SpursTalk actually means "the best one ever."

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:22 PM

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

That f'n gold. You have an opinion on what my opinion is? What makes it even funnier is I already said bottom 25%. Math much?

Jesus christ....maybe you need to go look up irony

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:23 PM

I already agreed before you even posted it.

No you didn't

See I can do that too.

dknights411

10-10-2008, 03:23 PM

I agree that you can't blame Bush for 9/11. However, the Bush White House is still responsible for mishandling the war on terror, the Katrina recovery efforts, and now the loose banking practices that has been going on under his watch is coming back to bite us all in the ass. W's administration may be one of the worst managed White Houses since the 1920s.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:27 PM

He said Bottom 25%, which would be down to about 8 presidents or so. So you're making yourself look like an idiot over about 3 presidents which I'm not sure you could name without going to some blog or wikipedia.

You did this with Whottt and those California comments. I don't know man, you just make my head hurt sometimes.

Let's see if I can explain this...I wasn't being serious. I know what 25% of 43 is. Even if I didn't you think I'd be dumb enough not to check before I posted? Don't answer that. I was using "it's my opinion that he doesn't think..." as a device to point out what a hypocrite he is. I guess I failed in that regard. My mistake. I didn't study political science so I can't name ever president no, but I can damn sure name more than timvp.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:29 PM

*waits for you people to try and twist every word in my posts*

MannyIsGod

10-10-2008, 03:33 PM

Let's see if I can explain this...I wasn't being serious. I know what 25% of 43 is. Even if I didn't you think I'd be dumb enough not to check before I posted? Don't answer that. I was using "it's my opinion that he doesn't think..." as a device to point out what a hypocrite he is. I guess I failed in that regard. My mistake. I didn't study political science so I can't name ever president no, but I can damn sure name more than timvp.

Yes. Yes I do.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:34 PM

Yes. Yes I do.

Thanks. I'm glad you think I'm dumb.

VaSpursFan

10-10-2008, 03:43 PM

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:47 PM

as a totally objective outside observer, here is what i saw. timvp make a post about bush being a shitty president but admitting that history books years from now may paint him as bad but not as one of the worst ever if subsequent presidents clean up his mess, so to speak. you seem to have misinterpreted that as a disagreement with your position when in fact he was agreeing with you with that little caveat.

now it's a pissing contest between you too that's actually pretty funny.

It was fun to participate in. He didn't agree with my position though whatever he may claim. My position is that the thread is not hyperbole. He thinks I don't know what hyperbole is. That's fine. He's wrong. I just saw his post as a half-assed attempt to ridicule bush but at the same time apologize for him. That's why I posted the history. Then he did kind of what I did in the debate blog thread (didn't respond directly). Which is why I kept going.

Xylus

10-10-2008, 03:47 PM

Seriously bro, I don't know if maybe you are having a bad day or something but this has been the dumbest conversation I've ever engaged in during SpursTalk's history.

It takes two to tango, my friend. :lol

peewee's lovechild

10-10-2008, 03:54 PM

Shastafaritard needs to just stop.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 03:54 PM

Shastafaritard needs to just stop.

Why? This is fun.

temujin

10-10-2008, 03:55 PM

I forgot about that. In his first term, Bush was the laziest president in the history of this country. All he did was go on vacation to the ranch in Crawford.

Those were the good times.

Unfortunately, he went back to work in his second term.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 04:10 PM

Here's my favorite line though

All things considered, the United States is in a fairly good position compared to the worse possible outcomes.

Trainwreck2100

10-10-2008, 04:29 PM

You don't condone sex with anybody, under any conditions, apparently.

That's a stretch

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 05:07 PM

:lmao @ timVP what a fool. I realize Bush is a Texan and you have a soft spot in your heart towards him, but it clearly has blinded you.

Bush better than Gore or Kerry? Give me a fucking break. Matter of fact go stick your head in the toilet and flush a few times.

The biggest problem with electing an anti-intellectual like Bush is that they essentially become rubber stamps to the Cabinet they bring with them.

1.) The Iraq War - A waste of 1 trillion dollars and thousands of lives. This alone puts him in the top 5 of worst Presidents ever.
2.) Katrina - Hiring a horse trainer as head of FEMA? Are you fucking kidding me?
3.) Stock Market Collapse - Pushed through massive deregulation of our banking industry.

This is my top 3, and as we have shown the list certainly does not stop there. Anyone who can say that Bush was a better option than Gore or Kerry needs to have their heads checked, and more importantly needs to never vote in an election again. May God have mercy on your idiotic soul.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 05:08 PM

Here's my favorite line though

Classic. Republicans know no bounds for their stupidity.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 05:09 PM

Here's my favorite line though

as a totally objective outside observer, here is what i saw. timvp make a post about bush being a shitty president but admitting that history books years from now may paint him as bad but not as one of the worst ever if subsequent presidents clean up his mess, so to speak. you seem to have misinterpreted that as a disagreement with your position when in fact he was agreeing with you with that little caveat.

now it's a pissing contest between you too that's actually pretty funny.

No TimVP actually said that Bush was a better option than Gore or Kerry. That's orders of magnitude dumber than anything said on here thus far.

timvp

10-10-2008, 05:11 PM

DazedAndConfused and Shastafarian are definitely two peas in a pod.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 05:22 PM

DazedAndConfused and Shastafarian are definitely two peas in a pod.

Typical that you would respond with personal attacks after being made a complete fool of.

timvp

10-10-2008, 05:23 PM

Typical that you would respond with personal attacksLink?

after being made a complete fool of.Link?

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 05:33 PM

Link?

Link?

You and whottt certainly have a lot in common. I can see why you always come in to defend him. You both seem to love trying to change the subject whenever someone flat out owns you.

The bottom line is you're the one who said Bush was a better choice for president than Gore or Kerry would have been. These are your words.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 05:35 PM

You and whottt certainly have a lot in common. I can see why you always come in to defend him. You both seem to love trying to change the subject whenever someone flat out owns you.

The bottom line is you're the one who said Bush was a better choice for president than Gore or Kerry would have been. These are your words.

They both like to call people names thinking it will enhance their argument.

Kamnik

10-10-2008, 06:03 PM

I think there are millions of Americans who would do a better job as a president than Bush.

And imho he is a puppet directed from behind anyways. It is obvious he is not very smart so for him to make many important decisions seems almost unbelivable.

I do not think it is even debatable if he was a horrible president. (to an objective outsider like me...)

In his defense... also many other big countries like Italy or France have horrible presidents... He is just by chance the guy with the biggest power out there.

ChumpDumper

10-10-2008, 06:09 PM

He's awful.

That said, it's a pretty weak thread. The only thing that redeemed it was Wild Cobra's impassioned fellating of Joe McCarthy.

clambake

10-10-2008, 06:12 PM

He's awful.

That said, it's a pretty weak thread. The only thing that redeemed it was Wild Cobra's impassioned fellating of Joe McCarthy.

:lmao chump plants another IED :lmao

timvp

10-10-2008, 06:20 PM

You and whottt certainly have a lot in common. I can see why you always come in to defend him.Link? timvp has attacked whottt more than anyone on the forum.

Try again.

You both seem to love trying to change the subject whenever someone flat out owns you.Asking for links of your accusations is changing the subject? JeffDrums22 can't own someone by giving his opinions. You're the same guy who got so owned in your other screen names that you have to continuously create new names.

The bottom line is you're the one who said Bush was a better choice for president than Gore or Kerry would have been. These are your words.Go read it again. Keywords being "I think".

If you want to try to concretely prove otherwise, be my guest. This time, avoid the ten year old emo rant.

Thanks.

boutons_

10-10-2008, 06:26 PM

As if we needed anymore daming evidence of dubya's incompetence and irrelevance.

Bush Just Makes It Worse

When it comes to the current financial crisis, it's become pretty clear that an appearance by President Bush doesn't calm nerves. It rubs them raw.

But today all Bush gave us was limp cheerleading (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/10/AR2008101001393_pf.html), vaguely assuring us he's doing everything possible.

The president seems checked out (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/09/22/BL2008092201223.html). His approval ratings (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/10/01/BL2008100101184.html) are in the toilet. His credibility (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/09/24/BL2008092401517.html) is shot. He's arguably responsible (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/10/06/BL2008100601139.html) for this mess in the first place. And his presence and his words have led to more fear and panic (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/09/25/BL2008092501776.html), not less. :lol

Bush still seems to be operating in a fantasy world where people look to him for direction. His eight-minute speech in a sunny Rose Garden this morning consisted of a dry laundry list of previously announced government actions, punctuated by listless platitudes.

"Since Oct. 1, when the Senate gave final passage to the legislation, Bush has spoken publicly or issued statements about the rescue plan and the markets six times and the Dow has fallen 20.8 percent.

"Paulsen . . . said he believes attempts by President George W. Bush's administration to sell its $700 billion economic rescue plan may have sown the seeds of the current confidence crisis"

'It's difficult to be a credible part of the solution when many people think you are part of the problem.'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/10/10/BL2008101001785_pf.html

============

your'e doing a heckuva job, dubya

baseline bum

10-10-2008, 06:28 PM

:rolleyes @ this thread. Hyperbole much?

Bush has reigned over eight years that has definitely had more downs than ups. But I'd imagine most would agree that 9/11 might have had just a little bit to do with that. He had to deal with one of the most difficult times in American history and while he definitely made a lot of mistakes along the way, it's much too early to be saying he's the worst president ever.

When history looks back on him, they'll remember him as the 9/11 president. Bush wasn't 100% guilt-free in the chaos before and after 9/11, but he didn't even come close to making the worst possible errors. In fact, he'll likely be commended by history for not allowing another 9/11 attack in the last ~7 years of his presidency.

It's going to take a while to judge how good or bad Bush was. If the next couple presidents "correct" some of Bush's policies and the result is more 9/11 type attacks, Bush won't be regarded as anything close to the worst president ever. If Iraq actually becomes a halfway decent country and a key American ally, Bush will win historical points. Basically, you can't start judging a president's historical placement when he hasn't even left office.

All told, Bush will be remembered by how he reacted directly after 9/11 and not by how much he hugged a tree or whether or not he could have lessened a cyclical downturn in the economy. He'll likely be remembered as a bottom 25% president but if you think the last eight years have gone as poorly as possibly, you are delusional. All things considered, the United States is in a fairly good position compared to the worse possible outcomes.

I'm on record as saying I would have liked Clinton or Obama more than Bush. But when the options were Bush or Gore and Bush or Kerry, I think the U.S. made the right choice both times.

Even someone who agreed with Bush's decision to go to war can't possibly think he's done well running it.

Major blunders in the first 3 years of this war:
1. Bush let Cheney and Rumsfeld have complete control of the war while telling Colin Powell and the State Department as well as Rice to fuck off. Rumsfeld got complete control and went against all advice of the Army. It kills me when McCain pats himself with his kluby while discussing the surge, when he went with the administration's idea to send way too small of an invading force in the first place (did he call out Bush then?). Because of this, as soon as we liberated Baghdad we didn't have the forces necessary to establish order, and mass rioting happened. Baghdad has been in a state of chaos since.

2. Trusting Ahmed Chalabi. This guy was a crook who fed us bad intelligence, but he was loved by Cheney and Rumsfeld because he and the INC gave them the excuse to invade. Everyone outside of Rumsfeld's inner circle could see that Chalabi was a wolf in sheep's clothing who made big promises of a Democratic Iraq loyal to the US. This was never going to happen in a mostly Sunni nation that hates Shi'as (such as Chalabi) with a passion. It's like Rumsfeld's inner circle had never heard of the war that took place there 20 years before. Bush stood by and let it happen by trusting Cheney and Rumsfeld and disregarding Powell, Rice, and everyone else not at the Pentagon who told him constantly that Chalabi was at best a crook, and at worst an Iran sympathizer ready to sell Iraq out.

3. Treating the Ba'ath like we did the Nazis. Good luck preserving order in a Sunni nation when the Sunnis have no voice and you give power to their mortal enemies instead. We should have let the people of Iraq go and kill the crooked Hussein loyalists who persecuted them for years.

4. Disbanding the Iraqi army. This was a colossal mistake that really screwed over the Army strategists who assumed they were going to be able to use these soldiers to help make up for their too-small invading forces. Not only that, but that ensured there were thousands of unemployed people angry about losing their jobs, with assault rifles in their possession. In response to Rumsfeld's decision, the Army loses all its top generals in the middle of war. Strike 4, Bush.

We don't need to wait to say that Bush is a failure. The execution of the war is enough to brand Bush as completely incompetent. We've had 5 years to evaluate this war already, and it stinks no matter how you look at it. Anyone who writes about him as anything less than an unacceptably bad president in tomorrow's books will be doing nothing more than writing a revisionist history. Without hyperbole, it is easy to justifiably declare Bush the worst president this country has ever had. I cannot wait until we have someone intelligent leading us again, whether it's Obama or McCain. W is a disgrace to the legacy of the great leaders we've had like Washinton, Jefferson, Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, Kennedy, and Reagan.

ElNono

10-10-2008, 06:38 PM

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, including timvp. I can definitely vouch for him giving whottt a smack down (not that you can do anything else with whottt) on more than one occasion. He stated he thought Bush made a better president than Gore or Kerry, and that's opinion. It can't be factually proven, no matter what amount of screw ups dubya did, because they were not president, so it's impossible to know how they would have fared.

What I do disagree with timvp about is that he's mostly going to be remembered as the 9/11 president. I also think he'll be remembered for all the periphery of stuff around 9/11, like the Iraq war president, the Patriot Act president, the Guantanamo Bay president, the Bush Doctrine president, etc. But then again, like I said earlier, and I think timvp agreed, only time will tell.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 06:42 PM

Link? timvp has attacked whottt more than anyone on the forum.

Try again.

Asking for links of your accusations is changing the subject? JeffDrums22 can't own someone by giving his opinions. You're the same guy who got so owned in your other screen names that you have to continuously create new names.

Go read it again. Keywords being "I think".

If you want to try to concretely prove otherwise, be my guest. This time, avoid the ten year old emo rant.

Thanks.

Nice deflection, not nearly as good as whottt but you're getting there.

I'm on record as saying I would have liked Clinton or Obama more than Bush. But when the options were Bush or Gore and Bush or Kerry, I think the U.S. made the right choice both times.

These are your words. Stop hiding. You flat out said Bush made a better President than Gore or Kerry would have. I"m not sure how any rational human being can defend that statement. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this forum.

Dazed and Confused isn't Spurs Dynasty/Jeff Drumms/Whatever.

ElNono

10-10-2008, 06:46 PM

These are your words. Stop hiding. You flat out said Bush made a better President than Gore or Kerry would have. I"m not sure how any rational human being can defend that statement. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this forum.

Can you factually prove that Gore and/or Kerry would have been better presidents? Very simple question. Yes or No?

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Can you factually prove that Gore and/or Kerry would have been better presidents? Very simple question. Yes or No?

I guess his point is that no one could have been worse than Bush. The answer is no but it's hard to think of a president handling the crises worse than Bush has handled them.

Nbadan

10-10-2008, 06:53 PM

It's going to take a while to judge how good or bad Bush was.

TimVP, like other closet wing-nuts, forget that Dubya's administration, especially the State Department, came in with nothing but cronies and completely lost track of 2 of the 9/11 terrorists that could have revealed the plot to fly passenger airliners into buildings. 9/11 could have been prevented.........so saying that Dubya has prevented terrorists attacks since 9/11 should have a big asterisk for failing to stop the most catastrophic terror attack ever on the American civilian population...

ElNono

10-10-2008, 06:54 PM

I guess his point is that no one could have been worse than Bush. The answer is no but it's hard to think of a president handling the crises worse than Bush has handled them.

I respect his opinion on the matter. My point is, why can't he respect other person opinion?

Nbadan

10-10-2008, 06:55 PM

Can you factually prove that Gore and/or Kerry would have been better presidents? Very simple question. Yes or No?

:rolleyes

Would you say Gore would have invaded Iraq? Let's be honest, that was the beginning of the end of American military and financial supremacy...

ElNono

10-10-2008, 06:56 PM

:rolleyes

Would you say Gore would have invaded Iraq? Let's be honest, that was the beginning of the end of American military and financial supremacy...

Can you factually prove he wouldn't have? Can you factually prove he wouldn't have destroyed the economy in other ways? Can you factually prove he wouldn't have gotten in a recession earlier?

We can go on with this forever...

Nbadan

10-10-2008, 06:58 PM

...straw-man arguments....we can't compare theoretical with actual....and let me tell you, Gore could not have ass-fucked America any worse than the Bush Administration has....

ElNono

10-10-2008, 06:58 PM

...straw-man arguments....we can't compare theoretical with actual....and let me tell you, Gore could not have ass-fucked America any worse than the Bush Administration has....

opinion

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 07:10 PM

I respect his opinion on the matter. My point is, why can't he respect other person opinion?

Respect it what sense? I think he acknowledged that what timvp was saying was his opinion. It was his opinion that timvp's opinion is idiotic.

Nbadan

10-10-2008, 07:14 PM

...it's ALWAYS opinion, that's what a forum is for, but even you would find it difficult to argue that there is a single policy that the Bush administration supported that almost everyone can agree with confidence - you know, he did a pretty decent job there - at least Clinton left a surplus....

byrontx

10-10-2008, 07:18 PM

Why give Bush a pass on 9/11? That, too, is debatable. BTW, thanks Shasta, for the historical post about Bush. There was a lot that could be added, from attempting to gut the clean-air act to just acting like such a dufus (remember him trying to massage Merkel's neck?). Damn, I felt so embarrassed that we had such an idiot representing the US.

But back to Bush and 9/11:

" The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft but that the warnings did not contemplate the possibility that the hijackers would turn the planes into guided missiles for a terrorist attack.

''It is widely known that we had information that bin Laden wanted to attack the United States or United States interests abroad,'' Ari Fleischer, the president's press secretary, said this evening. ''The president was also provided information about bin Laden wanting to engage in hijacking in the traditional pre-9/11 sense, not for the use of suicide bombing, not for the use of an airplane as a missile.''

and from the 9/11 report (recapped in historycommons.com, a long read but interesting):

# In late 2000, British investigators teamed up with their counterparts in the Cayman Islands and began a yearlong probe of three Afghan men who had entered the Cayman Islands illegally. [Miami Herald, 9/20/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01] In June 2001, the Afghan men were overheard discussing hijacking attacks in New York City, and were promptly taken into custody. This information was forwarded to US intelligence [Fox News, 5/17/02]. In late August 2001, shortly before the attacks, an anonymous letter to a Cayman radio station alleged these same men were al-Qaeda agents “organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines.” [Miami Herald, 9/20/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, MSNBC, 9/23/01]

1. In late July 2001, Afghanistan’s Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil learned that Osama bin Laden was planning a “huge attack” on targets inside America. The attack was imminent, and would kill thousands, he learned from the leader of the rebel Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, which was closely allied with al-Qaeda at the time. Muttawakil sent an emissary to pass this information on to the US Consul General, and another US official, “possibly from the intelligence services.” Sources confirmed that this message was received, but supposedly not taken very seriously, because of “warning fatigue” arising from too many terror warnings. [Independent, 9/7/02, Reuters, 9/7/02]
2. Also in late July 2001, the US was given a “concrete warning” from Argentina’s Jewish community. “An attack of major proportions” was planned against either the US, Argentina, or France. The information came from an unidentified intelligence agency. [Forward, 5/31/02]
3. An undercover agent from Morocco successfully penetrated al-Qaeda. He learned that bin Laden was “very disappointed” that the 1993 bombing had not toppled the World Trade Center, and was planning “large scale operations in New York in the summer or fall of 2001.” He provided this information to the US in August 2001. [Agence France Presse, 11/22/01, International Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, London Times, 6/12/02]
4. Hasni Mubarak, President of Egypt, maintains that in the beginning of September 2001 Egyptian intelligence warned American officials that al-Qaeda was in the advanced stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, probably within the US. [AP, 12/7/01, New York Times, 6/4/02] He learned this information from an agent working inside al-Qaeda. [ABC News, 6/4/02]

Warnings the Attack Will Come from the Air

Many warnings specifically mentioned a threat coming from the air.

1. In 1999, British intelligence gave a secret report to the US embassy. The report stated that al-Qaeda had plans to use “commercial aircraft” in “unconventional ways,”“possibly as flying bombs.” [Sunday Times, 6/9/02] On July 16, 2001, British intelligence passed a message to the US that al-Qaeda was in “the final stages” of preparing a terrorist attack in Western countries. [London Times, 6/14/02] In early August, the British gave another warning, telling the US to expect multiple airline hijackings from al-Qaeda. This warning was included in Bush’s briefing on August 6, 2001. [Sunday Herald, 5/19/02]
2. In June 2001, German intelligence warned the US, Britain, and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and use them as weapons to attack “American and Israeli symbols which stand out.” Within the American intelligence community, “the warnings were taken seriously and surveillance intensified” but “there was disagreement on how such terrorist attacks could be prevented.” This warning came from Echelon, a spy satellite network that is partly based in Germany. [Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 9/11/01, Washington Post, 9/14/01]
3. In late July 2001, Egyptian intelligence received a report from an undercover agent in Afghanistan that “20 al-Qaeda members had slipped into the US and four of them had received flight training on Cessnas.” To the Egyptians, pilots of small planes didn’t sound terribly alarming, but they passed on the message to the CIA anyway, fully expecting Washington to request information. “The request never came.” [CBS, 10/9/02] Given that there were 19 hijackers and four pilots (who trained on Cessnas) in the 9/11 plot, one might think this would now be a big news item. But in fact, the information has only appeared as an aside in a CBS “60 Minutes” show about a different topic.
4. In late summer 2001, Jordan intelligence intercepted a message stating that a major attack was being planned inside the US and that aircraft would be used. The code name of the operation was Big Wedding, which did in fact turn out to be the codename of the 9/11 plot. The message was passed to US intelligence through several channels. [International Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, Christian Science Monitor, 5/23/02]
5. Russian President Vladimir Putin publicly stated that he ordered his intelligence agencies to alert the US in the summer of 2001 that suicide pilots were training for attacks on US targets. [Fox News, 5/17/02] The head of Russian intelligence also stated, “We had clearly warned them” on several occasions, but they “did not pay the necessary attention.” [Agence France-Presse, 9/16/01] The Russian newspaper Izvestia claimed that Russian intelligence agents knew the participants in the attacks, and: “More than that, Moscow warned Washington about preparation for these actions a couple of weeks before they happened.” [Izvestia, 9/12/02]
6. Five days before 9/11, the priest Jean-Marie Benjamin was told by a Muslim at an Italian wedding of a plot to attack the US and Britain using hijacked airplanes as weapons. He wasn’t told time or place specifics. He immediately passed what he knew on to a judge and several politicians in Italy. Presumably this Muslim confided in him because Benjamin has done considerable charity work in Muslim countries and is considered “one of the West’s most knowledgeable experts on the Muslim world.” [Zenit, 9/16/01] Benjamin has not revealed who told him this information, but it could have come from a member of the al-Qaeda cell in Milan, Italy. This cell supplied forged documents for other al-Qaeda operations, and wiretaps show members of the cell were aware of the 9/11 plot. [Los Angeles Times, 5/29/02, Guardian, 5/30/02, Boston Globe, 8/4/02] For instance, in August 2000, one terrorist in Milan was recorded saying to another: “I’m studying airplanes. I hope, God willing, that I can bring you a window or a piece of an airplane the next time we see each other.” The comment was followed by laughter [Washington Post, 5/31/02]. In another case in January 2001, a terrorist asked if certain forged documents were for “the brothers going to the United States,” and was angrily rebuked by another who told him not to talk about that “very, very secret” plan. [Los Angeles Times, 5/29/02] In March 2001, the Italian government gave the US a warning based on these wiretaps. [Fox News, 5/17/02]

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 07:21 PM

ElNono

10-10-2008, 07:21 PM

Respect it what sense? I think he acknowledged that what timvp was saying was his opinion. It was his opinion that timvp's opinion is idiotic.

Claiming that somebody's opinion is idiotic when the opinion given is for a theoretical matter is retarded. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact. Why? Because of what I explained earlier: It's a theory, and it's good as anybody else's theory. If you don't think it's good, you need to prove it, and you can't do so with a theoretical topic.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 07:39 PM

Claiming that somebody's opinion is idiotic when the opinion given is for a theoretical matter is retarded. And that's not an opinion, that's a fact. Why? Because of what I explained earlier: It's a theory, and it's good as anybody else's theory. If you don't think it's good, you need to prove it, and you can't do so with a theoretical topic.

You're dealing in absolute terms. While I agree that it's impossible to prove Kerry or Gore would have been better presidents, claiming that you can't question people's opinions on hypothetical situations is not totally accurate. Would you think I was an idiot if I claimed some 12 year old could have done a better job than Bush? It's my opinion on a hypothetical situation but it's a very stupid opinion.

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/editor/archives/bush_door_gallery__470x391.jpg

That may have been a bad example

ElNono

10-10-2008, 07:45 PM

Would you think I was an idiot if I claimed some 12 year old could have done a better job than Bush? It's my opinion on a hypothetical situation but it's a very stupid opinion.

It's your opinion. You go girl. :lol

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 07:55 PM

ElNono

10-10-2008, 08:06 PM

Gravity is also a theory btw. If you're going to argue that we can't discuss the merits of a situation that is in anyway theoretical then this forum might as well not exist.

I can say definitively that Al Gore would never have taken us into Iraq. That alone makes him a better "theoretical" president than GWB. I understand this timVP guy is a moderator and you all feel the need to suck up and kiss his ass, but when someone says something THAT absurd I have to call them out on it.

In my lifetime I can't think of a worse President. Of course not all of the disasters are his fault, but a lot of them can be attributed to his decisions and policies that were carried out with a Republican Congress who had complete control for nearly 7 years. The buck has to stop somewhere.

You can have an opinion. Berating somebody else's because you don't agree, but you have no proof otherwise, is retarded.
Nobody is claiming that Bush didn't screw up. And that Al Gore would have not taken us to Iraq is irrelevant. Al Gore could have taken us somewhere else, or nowhere. Al Gore could have sit on his ass and allowed more terrorist attacks. Al Gore could have taken the stumbling economy after the tech bubble popped, and tanked it.

What he said was not absurd. Unlikely? Maybe. But there's no way to prove it. And you jumping on him for that is RETARDED.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 09:05 PM

BushDynasty

10-10-2008, 09:13 PM

I may be the worst president in history but this Shastafagarian fella might be the worst poster in Spurstalk history ... and there are a lot more posters than presidents.

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 09:15 PM

So not only does this guy argue about a debate he didn't even watch, he argues about a post he didn't even read.
I've pretty much given up on him.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 09:18 PM

I've pretty much given up on him.

Says he who defends Joseph McCarthy. And please oh please don't give up on me!!! I yearn for approval from people who post on the internets...

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 09:19 PM

I may be the worst president in history but this Shastafagarian fella might be the worst poster in Spurstalk history ... and there are a lot more posters than presidents.

Why because I called your boyfriend a hypocrite?

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 09:22 PM

What I do disagree with timvp about is that he's mostly going to be remembered as the 9/11 president. I also think he'll be remembered for all the periphery of stuff around 9/11, like the Iraq war president, the Patriot Act president, the Guantanamo Bay president, the Bush Doctrine president, etc. But then again, like I said earlier, and I think timvp agreed, only time will tell.
I automatically considered those to ba part of "The 9/11 President."

When history writes of these, consider how it may be layed out. 9/11 will be like the major theme, maybe book title, with each issue a chapter within.

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:24 PM

You know what fuck what the scientists say. Gravity is a theory. I don't buy that BS.

I'm going to teach my kids that gravity doesn't exist and that the reason we are fixed on the ground is because of a giant flying spaghetti monster in the sky is controlling us. Nobody has any right to call me or my kids an idiot for believing in this since gravity is a theory. You can't disprove that my flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, therefore you can't dispute or berate me for anything I say.

Gravity does exist and it's not a theory. Please read Newton's law of universal gravitation. You can use that scientific law to calculate the gravitational force between Earth and pretty much any object, and keep your kids educated.

The only reason you would need to switch to the general theory of relativity is if you needed to calculate the gravitational pull of objects of huge mass, or you needed over the top precision on the calculation of the gravitational force. IE: If your kids would like to investigate one day the gravitational fields between two stars, they would need to go for Einstein's theory.

Wild Cobra

10-10-2008, 09:25 PM

Says he who defends Joseph McCarthy. And please oh please don't give up on me!!! I yearn for approval from people who post on the internets...
Sorry, you're just too far gone. I find it a waste of time to try to reason with you.

After you read up on the Venona Project and understand who what in what committees and the timeluines involved, we can try to discuss the matter about McCarthy. That however is a different thread.

Shastafarian

10-10-2008, 09:28 PM

Sorry, you're just too far gone. I find it a waste of time to try to reason with you.

You mean reason with me in the sense you want to say Joseph McCarthy wasn't such a bad guy? Maybe you'd like to tell me Richard Nixon was just misunderstood?

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:32 PM

I automatically considered those to ba part of "The 9/11 President."

When history writes of these, consider how it may be layed out. 9/11 will be like the major theme, maybe book title, with each issue a chapter within.

I'm thinking more towards how I will remember him, and tell the tale to whoever asks. I mean, while a lot of those things were put in place with the excuse of 9/11, I don't think all of them were necessary because of 9/11. Iraq for example, to me, has nothing to do with 9/11.

ChumpDumper

10-10-2008, 09:35 PM

He'll be known as the 9/11 president -- and everyone will wonder WTF he was thinking when he invaded Iraq since it had nothing to do with 9/11.

TheMadHatter

10-10-2008, 09:43 PM

ElNono

10-10-2008, 09:59 PM

He will be known as the dumbest and worst President of our generation, God willing.

He set the bar so low, a woman like Sarah Palin could actually win the Republican nomination. He is likable, but a terrible terrible terrible President.

And Nono, you get my point right? Of course I can't say definitively what would have happened in a theoretical situation. It's just like sports. It's like me saying the Bobcats would have won the NBA Finals had they made it. You can't disprove me, but you'd probably think I was an idiot for saying that. So yes I can attack anyone on their reasoning and analytical skills which is what I did. If I couldn't, this forum would cease to exist because that's all we do here.

I would tell you history is not on your side. :lol
I would definitely not call you an idiot for thinking that. Remember what happened when Golden State beat Dallas? What were the odds of that?
That's why they play the games. And don't get me wrong, I actually think dubya was the worst President that I recall, but I think we might need more time to put everything in perspective.

bresilhac

10-11-2008, 02:28 AM

Without a doubt George Bush has been a colossally bad president. From the bottomless pit of the ill-conceived Iraqi Occupation to the Valerie Plame outrage president Bush is already viewed currently as the worst president of all time. I think history will be an even harsher critic as time passes. Truly horrible.