Spurs vs Hornets Game Blog, Preseason Game 2

[timtonymanu]

Didn't Batum get drafted before Hill?

yep. Batum was 25. Hill was 26.

[Bruno]

:depressed Batum :depressed

BTW, both Batum and Hill are having a quite good preseason. They were the players targeted by Spurs with their first round pick. After all, maybe SPurs haven't lost their scouting touch.

By looking at stats,training camp invites, who were good in the first game (Hairston and Watkins), have sucked in the second game. So far, it seems that none of the 7 players without a guaranteed contract has shown that he was ahead of the others. The race for the last couple of roster spots is still wide open. If they doesn't show enough, it's also possible that Spurs keep 13 or 14 players at the end of the training camp.

[tav1]

Desmon Farmer is better than I thought. At the very least, I'd like to see him get some minutes against the opponents first squad. Farmer is borderline NBA to my eyes. He should stick somewhere.

He's playing well enough that I doubt the Toros have a legit chance, but not so well that he's a roster keeper. Hairston, Farmer, and Watkins would all make great Toros players, though.

[T Park]

Watkins I think sounds like he played well again from the reports.

[jman3000]

I went to the game last night, and I saw some stuff that made me optimistic. Even though Mason Jr. didn't shoot particularly well, he's able to create his own shot on the perimeter and even if the shot is difficult he has the abilitiy to knock it down. Besides Manu, he's the only other perimieter player who has that ability. Please don't say Parker does, because he has the ability to take it to the rim at will... he's not very good at breaking down his defender on the perimeter and taking a difficult jumper.

I liked what I saw from Hill, it appears Timmy's vertical improved from 5 inches to 6 inches (guess the off season did him good), Bowen still looked like he had his foot speed, Parker's j looked very good, and Mason looks like a solid addition that can help (or make worse) when the offense stalls...

The Spurs also trotted out a big, athletic lineup that was very 3 pointer oriented. Can't remember how it did though.


Best part of the night though was when they showed Manu on the jumbotron and the crowd began to cheer... then all of a sudden you see Duncan's hand making a thumbs down right over his face.

[T Park]

Best part of the night though was when they showed Manu on the jumbotron and the crowd began to cheer... then all of a sudden you see Duncan's hand making a thumbs down right over his face.

:lmao

That's great

[SenorSpur]

I caught the "abbreviated" post-game show on WOAI last night. Assistant coach Brett Brown was on and he talked about the Spurs (Pop's) preseason philosophy, as opposed to other teams. Their formula: limited PT for vets; no B2B games for vets; insert a different set of guys into the starting lineup each game. He stated the fun part of preseason is "watching how the new guys perform in game situations against regular competition". To that end, he was pleased that his young guys had the chance to play against the Hornets regulars.

He went on to state flatly that "this preseason is basically an audition for the 15th roster spot". At this point, various guys are making nice cases for themselves - in practice and in games. He singled out Hairston, Farmer and Watkins for their recent performances.

Competition should be good going down to the wire. Can't wait for Salim to get into the mix.

[T Park]

would be interested to know who 13 and 14 are.

Obviously one is George Hill....


Mahinmi not being in there is a huge boost for Watkins.

I just would hate to lose Hairston, I just think hes got such great potential and great athletic ability at the wing position, it would be a mistake to let him go IMO.

[SenorSpur]

would be interested to know who 13 and 14 are.

Obviously one is George Hill....


Mahinmi not being in there is a huge boost for Watkins.

I just would hate to lose Hairston, I just think hes got such great potential and great athletic ability at the wing position, it would be a mistake to let him go IMO.

Couldn't agree more on Hairston. After a dismal SL showing, it appears that he's found some life. In fact, I would hate lose him and Watkins. Maybe they can ship Bonner's ass somewhere to open up a roster spot. :lol

Brown indicated that Hairston, Hill and Tolliver have all reaped the benefits of being in the program for a full 3 months.

[T Park]

Theres no question that Hairston and Hill are the perfect young guys to bring.

Not only are they long and athletic, but they are CLEARLY coachable and want to succeed. Clearly Spurs type players, and IMO, that should seal them up.

Now would I keep Hairston on the big league team? Probobly not, I'd like to see him get 30 mins a night in Austin for half a year then bring him up and see what he has.

[tp2021]

What is this? The Spurs draft all American players in 2008, AND they may all actually be on the team in the near future? :wow

:lol

[Ice009]

Theres no question that Hairston and Hill are the perfect young guys to bring.

Not only are they long and athletic, but they are CLEARLY coachable and want to succeed. Clearly Spurs type players, and IMO, that should seal them up.

Now would I keep Hairston on the big league team? Probobly not, I'd like to see him get 30 mins a night in Austin for half a year then bring him up and see what he has.

I don't like this 15th roster spot talk. I think two or three of these guys could make the team. That really sucks if the Spurs can only keep one of them. The Spurs should seriously consider dropping dead weight like Bonner and Vaughn if these young kids outplay them and prove they belong. I don't want to see another potential Haslem be let go.

Stoudamire is also a guy I'd like the Spurs to keep if he lights it up in the Spurs system when he gets his chance.

[Obstructed_View]

Hairston needs to go to Austin just to get into shape and stay that way during the season. He's a good athlete, but he could turn into hot-plate at any time. I think Watkins has to make the team because the Spurs need an actual shot-blocking 5.

[Ice009]

Hairston needs to go to Austin just to get into shape and stay that way during the season. He's a good athlete, but he could turn into hot-plate at any time. I think Watkins has to make the team because the Spurs need an actual shot-blocking 5.

Yeah Watkins, if he pans out could be huge for us as a shot blocking big.

See what I mean I think a few of these guys could make the roster, but it doesn't look like the Spurs have the roster spots. If Pop doesn't think Bonner and Vaughn are going to cut it in the playoffs then he really has to think about doing something with those two.

[SenorSpur]

Hairston needs to go to Austin just to get into shape and stay that way during the season. He's a good athlete, but he could turn into hot-plate at any time.

My bet is that's exactly where he'll end up.


I think Watkins has to make the team because the Spurs need an actual shot-blocking 5.

You're absolutely right. The Spurs definitely need another shot-blocking big. Outside of Duncan, that's what they're missing in the paint. Lest we forget the "allley-oop" exhibition that the Hornets put on in virtually every game against us last season. Plus, the Spurs need another big of his skill set to help out against the Bynum's, the Oden's, the Shaq's and the Yao's of the Western Conference. Personally, I grew very tired of seeing Tim having to shoulder most of the frontcourt burden for this team on both ends of the court last season - simply because Oberto and KT do not provide the skills necessary against some of the bigger 5's.

Furthermomre, Ian's injury and questionable development, make an even more solid case for having Watkins on the team.

[Obstructed_View]

Kurt Thomas is as good a post defender as there is, but it would be nice to have someone who can get weak side blocks and rotate strong to the basket when two defenders roll to Duncan.

[T Park]

I don't like this 15th roster spot talk. I think two or three of these guys could make the team. That really sucks if the Spurs can only keep one of them. The Spurs should seriously consider dropping dead weight like Bonner and Vaughn if these young kids outplay them and prove they belong. I don't want to see another potential Haslem be let go.

Stoudamire is also a guy I'd like the Spurs to keep if he lights it up in the Spurs system when he gets his chance.

vaughn is kept around for more than just his gameplay, so you might as well get the tantrum and throwing things around the house over with now.

[Obstructed_View]

I could swear I've posted this before, and apolgies if I have, but it bears repeating anyway:

Vaughn is going NOWHERE right now. Pop may love George Hill, but he's not going to allow him to be the starting point guard if Parker steps on someone's foot in game 3 of the season.

Is he?

[ss1986v2]

I could swear I've posted this before, and apolgies if I have, but it bears repeating anyway:

Vaughn is going NOWHERE right now. Pop may love George Hill, but he's not going to allow him to be the starting point guard if Parker steps on someone's foot in game 3 of the season.

Is he?
he threw tony into the fire 3(?) games into his rookie season, didnt he?

[DPG21920]

I still think the roster is set:

Tony, Hill
Manu, Mason, Finley
Bruce, Ime
Duncan, Bonner, Ian
Oberto, KT

IR
Vaughn, Tolliver, ....

[urunobili]

I still think the roster is set:

Tony, Hill
Manu, Mason, Finley
Bruce, Ime
Duncan, Bonner, Ian
Oberto, KT

IR
Watkins, Hairstron, ....

Fixed

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Fixed

What do they do with Vaughn?

[Obstructed_View]

he threw tony into the fire 3(?) games into his rookie season, didnt he?

And he had three point guards on the roster behind Parker, two of them vets who knew the system. The Spurs have two true point guards on the roster, including Parker. JV isn't going anywhere.

[Manufan909]

Anyway JV and Bonner could be put on the Toros, so Hill, Ian, and Watkins can get some serious PT? I was all for giving Bonner a chance, but he's even letting me down. Guys like I mentioned, plus Hairston and Farmar are the kind of young players the Spurs need to go get #5. If KT AND Fab are the #2 and 3 options for bigmen after the allstar break, then pop is in serious trouble. I want Ian and Watkins to prove they can get that time, and have consistent success to keep it. I wouldn't mind Fab or KT to get over 20 minutes, but not both.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Anyway JV and Bonner could be put on the Toros, so Hill, Ian, and Watkins can get some serious PT.
wtf?

[anakha]

Anyway JV and Bonner could be put on the Toros, so Hill, Ian, and Watkins can get some serious PT?

Nope.

If I remember correctly, only only rookies and second-year players can be assigned.

[Manufan909]

Thanks.

Hopefully they're the 14th and 15th players by the time Manu gets back. By the playoffs, the only players I want to have serious minutes are Tony, Hill, Manu, Mason, Finley, Hairston(him and Fin switching between the 12th and 13th man), Bruce, Ime, Tim, Ian, Bonner, Watkins, and KT. Not necesssarily in that order, of course.

[Ice009]

he threw tony into the fire 3(?) games into his rookie season, didnt he?

Yep. Sometimes you have to make a gutsy move like that.

[DPG21920]

No way Vaughn is not on the roster.

[Ice009]

I still like the pipe dream trade of Bonner and Vaughn for Nocioni. I'll throw in the rights to Splitter too just for kicks ;).

[tp2021]

I still like the pipe dream trade of Bonner and Vaughn for Nocioni. I'll throw in the rights to Splitter too just for kicks ;).

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2456~874&teams=24~4&te=1996:4-788&cash=

[Ice009]

That's why I said Pipe dream trade, but like Moutainballer said a while ago if Nocioni were available the Spurs should be offering anyone outside of the big 4 to get him.

[Manufan909]

Whose the 4th, Bowen? I certainly don't consider him expendable, especially as a trading asset.

[ss1986v2]

And he had three point guards on the roster behind Parker, two of them vets who knew the system. The Spurs have two true point guards on the roster, including Parker. JV isn't going anywhere.

oh, i dont disagree. i was just saying that if tony went down, i wouldnt be surprised if pop threw hill out there in the starting role over vaughn.

[Obstructed_View]

oh, i dont disagree. i was just saying that if tony went down, i wouldnt be surprised if pop threw hill out there in the starting role over vaughn.

No I'm with you. I'd go so far as to say I'd be shocked if Pop didn't throw Hill out there in that situation, but there's no way JV doesn't stay on this team as an insurance policy, so trying to free up his roster spot is futile. Udoka has a better chance of being moved than Vaughn does.

[mountainballer]

Udoka has a better chance of being moved than Vaughn does.

I wouldn't go as far, but I agree that Ime has a better chance to be traded, than usually estimated on this forum.
Ime has an attractive contract (small and expiring) and many teams could use his defense. not that I want him to be traded, but for sure he's not that hard to be replaced. he might find himself on the 5th spot of the wing rotation anyhow and this 5th man could also be a player like Hairston/Farmer/Salim. (if JV stays, I can't see Salim play the point. he would play just SG)

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn't go as far, but I agree that Ime has a better chance to be traded, than usually estimated on this forum.

If it's a trade to free up roster spots for traning camp guys, Ime's more likely to go than Vaughn just due to value to the team and need. The only way Vaughn goes is if he's packaged with someone else and a point guard or someone that's just too good to pass up comes back. Potentially putting this season in Hill's hands is a gamble pop wouldn't make unless there was a big potential for a reward.

[tp2021]

If Ime gets traded to free up roster space, it most likely won't be used to sign Stoudamire. They are thin enough at SF as it is.

[Obstructed_View]

If Ime gets traded to free up roster space, it most likely won't be used to sign Stoudamire. They are thin enough at SF as it is.

And it's not likely that it would happen, which was my point about JV.

[DPG21920]

We can afford to lose Vaughn more than Ime due to the depth at the position. Neither will be traded unless it is a home run.

[Obstructed_View]

We can afford to lose Vaughn more than Ime due to the depth at the position. Neither will be traded unless it is a home run.

Tony Parker = depth?

[DPG21920]

Tony Parker = depth?

Tony Parker can handle the ball
George Hill can handle the ball
Roger Mason can handle the ball
Manu when he returns can handle the ball
Many of the guys in camp can handle the ball

They all might do it with varying degrees of success, but there is more ball handlers than there are SF's.

[Manufan909]

Tony Parker can handle the ball
George Hill can handle the ball
Roger Mason can handle the ball
Manu when he returns can handle the ball
Many of the guys in camp can handle the ball

They all might do it with varying degrees of success, but there is more ball handlers than there are SF's.

+1

There are multiple combo/straight pg guards on the team, yet Ime is half of our sg's, too bad Pop let Gist go to Italy without even seeing how he handled in the preseason. I think that was a major fuck up on Pops part, considering Tolliver is at best a Bonner replacement, while Gist could've been the athletic 3 everyone has been wishing for.

[xellos88330]

I am even more excited over Hill now. Now I want to see what he can do against other great PG's for an extended amount of time.

[duncan228]

Small piece from Spurs.com on Hill.

Young Guys Get A Look (http://www.nba.com/spurs/timeout/20secondto.html)
by Bill Schoening

There are differing philosophies among coaches when it comes to the NBA preseason. Some coaches want to get some wins to build some momentum and confidence in their clubs. The Spurs, however, pretty much know what they've got at the core; it's building the supporting cast that gets a lot of attention in October.

That's why unfamiliar names such as George Hill, Malik Hairston and Desmon Farmer are getting significant minutes in crunch time. Hill, the Spurs' first round draft choice out of tiny IUPUI, has shown promise. His long arms and lateral quickness helped produce five steals against Houston in the preseason opener. He aggressively challenged MVP runnerup Chris Paul on Friday night, hit a couple of three pointers, and raced across the floor to block a shot from the weak side.

The coaches like his calm demeanor. There is still much to learn as Hill is making a big jump from the Summit Conference and making the switch from off guard to the point, but he is making strides, and during this month of October, he'll likely have lots of opportunities (as will his fellow newcomers) to show what he can do.

[Obstructed_View]

Tony Parker can handle the ball
George Hill can handle the ball
Roger Mason can handle the ball
Manu when he returns can handle the ball
Many of the guys in camp can handle the ball

They all might do it with varying degrees of success, but there is more ball handlers than there are SF's.

George Hill is a shooting guard, doesn't know the Spurs' system, and is a rookie. We don't even know if he is an NBA player yet.
Roger Mason is a shooting guard and doesn't know the Spurs' system
Manu is a shooting guard and he's also injured for at least a month, maybe two.
Only one guy on the roster is a point guard if you get rid of Vaughn.

Finley and Bowen are both small forwards if you get rid of Ime.

2 > 1

[DPG21920]

George Hill is a shooting guard, doesn't know the Spurs' system, and is a rookie. We don't even know if he is an NBA player yet.
Roger Mason is a shooting guard and doesn't know the Spurs' system
Manu is a shooting guard and he's also injured for at least a month, maybe two.
Only one guy on the roster is a point guard if you get rid of Vaughn.

Finley and Bowen are both small forwards if you get rid of Ime.

2 > 1

Wrong. I said ball handlers. Not point guards. Finley is just as much of a sf as Mason is a ball handler so at worst it is 2-2, but even then there is way more ball handlers in camp than SF, so they could lose Vaughn and put in some one from camp. Who in camp can replace Ime?

[Obstructed_View]

Wrong. I said ball handlers. Not point guards. Finley is just as much of a sf as Mason is a ball handler so at worst it is 2-2, but even then there is way more ball handlers in camp than SF, so they could lose Vaughn and put in some one from camp. Who in camp can replace Ime?

Your attempts to split hairs don't change the facts. Ball handler does not equal point guard. Parker and Vaughn are the only true point guards on the roster. Udoka, Finley and Bowen are all small forwards. Therefore, there's more depth at the small forward postion than there is at the point guard position. Pretending that shooting guards can adequately fill in running the point on an NBA team is just ignorant, and pretending that shooting guards who don't know the system can run the point for the Spurs is outright stupid.

[tp2021]

OV is right. And I don't see a trade to free up space unless its Bonner, possibly.

[DPG21920]

Your attempts to split hairs don't change the facts. Ball handler does not equal point guard. Parker and Vaughn are the only true point guards on the roster. Udoka, Finley and Bowen are all small forwards. Therefore, there's more depth at the small forward postion than there is at the point guard position. Pretending that shooting guards can adequately fill in running the point on an NBA team is just ignorant, and pretending that shooting guards who don't know the system can run the point for the Spurs is outright stupid.

Finley plays SF for the Spurs, I thought he started at shooting guard last year? Manu can run the point adequately and Mason did more than an adequate job last year for the Wizards.

[Obstructed_View]

Finley has indeed played shooting guard for the Spurs, but he's also been a power forward for the Spurs, and he has been a true small forward much of his career, including at least one of his all-star appearances. His size allows him to shift over to the position at any time. It's a much smaller stretch for Fin to play the three than suggesting that Mason is going to be able to come to a new team and step in at point for two months because he did an adequate job of filling in for Gilbert Arenas, who isn't a point guard either. I think he can probably do it, but I'm not so sure that I'm willing to get rid of Vaughn.

[DPG21920]

Finley has indeed played shooting guard for the Spurs, but he's also been a power forward for the Spurs, and he has been a true small forward much of his career, including at least one of his all-star appearances. His size allows him to shift over to the position at any time. It's a much smaller stretch for Fin to play the three than suggesting that Mason is going to be able to come to a new team and step in at point for two months because he did an adequate job of filling in for Gilbert Arenas, who isn't a point guard either. I think he can probably do it, but I'm not so sure that I'm willing to get rid of Vaughn.

I agree with them not getting rid of Vaughn, the reference was to someone saying they are more likely to get rid of Ime than Vaughn (which I do not think either are going any where).

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with them not getting rid of Vaughn, the reference was to someone saying they are more likely to get rid of Ime than Vaughn (which I do not think either are going any where).

I'm the one that said that. The point was to show how ludicrous the idea was of getting rid of Vaughn before the end of camp. The Spurs are even deeper at small forward than they are at point guard right now, so Vaughn's roster spot is not available if the Spurs decide they want to keep someone. They will end up with a bunch of guys playing in Austin while they see how Hill and Mason run the team.