The Manu Doesn't Believe in God Thread

[carina_gino20]

It's pretty long, and there are more personal stuff than those related to the Spurs. But if any of our Spanish-speaking friends, have time, I sure would appreciate a translation.

Apparently, he was just joking the last time he said the fuschia is his favorite color.:lol He has some other funny answers.


publicación: 11-10-2008


MANU RESPONDE AL FORO






Gonzaspurs
¿Cómo sentís que está tu relación con los Spurs, tanto con los directivos como con el técnico, luego de tu participación en los Juegos? Ya que por momentos parecía un tema de Estado.
Por ahora está muy bien. Estuve hablando con Pop bastante y está todo acordado. No hay ningún problema. Veremos más adelante como se va modificando o no la situación.

santi2006
¿Cómo te preparás mentalmente para sufrir desde afuera estos primeros meses? ¿Te gusta mirar los juegos o sos de sufrir mucho?
No se si estoy preparado todavía! Cuando arranque veremos. No me gusta mirar los partidos de afuera, PARA NADA! Sufro mucho y siento que no puedo hacer nada para cambiar las cosas.


lucas5185
¿Con que chances ves a los Spurs para este año?
Con todas, como siempre.

¿Qué opinás de los refuerzos de este año de los Spurs?
Todavía no los vi lo suficiente. Salvo Roger Mason que es un jugador conocido y que ya demostró, los demás son nuevos entonces es difícil saber, encima estoy siempre en la pileta o el gimnasio, por lo que los veo muy poco por ahora.

Si se cumplía el rumor de Houston de llevar a Prigioni. ¿Qué actuación pensás que hubiera tenido en la NBA?
Imposible saberlo. Pero Pablo es un gran jugador, de mucha experiencia, solo hubiera necesitado como todos, un tiempo de adaptación, pero en esa posición cuesta todavía más.


Bibo20
¿Tenés pensado realizar alguna clínica de basquet en Argentina en algún momento o visitar el interior?
¿En algún momento de mi vida? Sí, alguna vez lo haré. No se cuándo ni dónde lamentablemente.


Guadalupe
¿Cómo va esa rehabilitación?
Todo muy bien, mejorando en todo aspecto, de a poco, pero mejorando.

¿Un poco aburrida no? ¿Qué es lo más entretenido que hiciste hasta el momento?
Sí, aburrido sin dudas. Muy aburrida. No creo que nada de lo que me hacen hacer en estos días me parezca entretenido.


VioletChina
Do you remember that in Nanjing a chinese girl with a No.20 jersey gave you a hand-written book with a blue and white color which is made by your Chinese Fans Club? If you still keep it,can you tell us what you think of it? We really want to know
Yes, I do remember and I do kept it. I really appreciated it. Thanks a lot for your support!


BigBigSpur
Do you still keep close touch with Pepe? When you feel down or he feels down, will you two call each other to confide your frustration?
Not that close this last year. We usually spend time together during the boreal summer since we leave really close from each other and we are friends. But because of the Olympics we barely saw each other this time.

Many people criticize you for your presence in Olympics. Have Tim said anything like “I will always on your side” to you? And after your surgery, does Tim show a great concern or does he come to visit you frequently?
It wasn’t needed. He’s a great guy and he understands me. He did came to visit me, too.

Last time you said you like “Fucsia”. It means pink, purple, or violet red?
Is easier to ask Manu than go to Wikipedia, right? Or any other dictionary? Anyways, it was a joke that Fucsia was my favorite color.


Chasky
¿Ganaste un concurso de volcadas en Italia en el 2001? Te pregunto, porque en algunas páginas se menciona y es algo que no deja dormir a muchos videólogos. ¿Tal vez algún otro torneo de volcadas?
No, no gané ningún concurso de volcadas. Cuando yo estaba no se hacía y ese año entregaron un premio a la mejor volcada del partido de las estrellas. Se puede apreciar en varios de los videos que hicieron los chicos de mis jugadas en Italia, la única que estoy con camiseta azul.


Emito
¿Me gustaría saber que hubieras estudiado si el basquet no rendía sus frutos y tu vieja te obligaba a ir a la facu? Leí por ahí que decías que tu vieja quería que fueras contador o algo así, pero vos… ¿qué hubieras elegido?
Mi vieja quería que me recibiera, pero no me hubiera obligado a estudiar. Siempre quiso tener un hijo profesional, pero no le dimos ese gusto ninguno de los tres. Creo que hubiera estudiado contador, pero no estoy 100% seguro.


Jalberto
¿Qué hiciste con la primera "platita" que ganaste?
Depende a cual te referís, pero la primera primera que me iba ganando en Bahiense dirigiendo a los más chiquitos iba toda al “chanchito” porque quería comprarme una compu. Tardé un par de años, pero llegó!
Con la de basquetbolista, nada en especial… una remera un par de pavaditas mas y al banco, sabía que no iba a ser fácil cobrar todos lo meses. (Estuve en lo cierto).


celi16
Si tuvieras la oportunidad de revivir algún partido… ¿Cuál sería y por qué?
Tengo 3.
Semifinal mundial sub 22 en Melbourne ’97.
Final Euroliga ’02.
Final Mundial ’02.
Fueron tres partidos trascendentales para mi y los tres perdidos INCREIBLEMENTE. Muy dolorosos todos.


Asababy
I am a chinese fan , it's a pity that i can't go to the stadium to see your games , you'd said that you had a good experience in China , so if possible do you intend to come to China again ? If so ,which places do you want to visit more?
I loved my experience in China during the Olympics, but I’m not planning on going again soon. I’d like to visit Shanghai one day.


Mar
¿Seguís en contacto con el resto del equipo o solamente cuando se encuentran en la cancha?
¿Resto del equipo? ¿Te referís a los chicos de la Selección? Sí, nos escribimos bastante seguido aunque lamentablemente hay muchos MUY haraganes.


¿Qué me podés decir de cumplir sueños? (Doy por descontado la típica frase de que tenés que arriesgar todo o esforzarte mucho).
Que está muy bueno. Eso seguro que no te lo dijo nadie!


Baru
Al momento de prestar tu imagen para algún comercial, a parte del dinero que te ofrecen… ¿Tomás en cuenta si te gusta ese producto? ¿Si lo consumís? ¿Si la marca va con tu personalidad? ¿O no tomás en cuenta nada de esto?
Sí, tomo en cuenta muchas cosas. Que empresa es, que producto vende, como quiere usar mi imagen, que trayectoria tiene, etc.

Juego de memoria:
¿Hace cuento que no... …cortas el pasto?
Uffff!! Lo cortaba en la casa de mis viejos, pero calculo que no lo hago hace 13 o 14 años. 11 o más, seguro.
…tomás un helado en cucurucho?
Lo hago bastante seguido. Compro unos cucuruchos acá en el super que me encantan. Con dulce de leche adentro y todo.
…llevás el auto al taller?
Mucho también! Creo que el primer año acá lo hice y después nunca más! En Bahía mi viejo se encarga de todo eso.
…hacés un gol jugado al futbol?
No me acuerdo ni siquiera cuando fue la última vez que jugué al fútbol! Con eso te digo todo. Ah si! En Italia a veces con la Virtus jugábamos y algún que otro gol he hecho. Estamos hablando del 2002!
…mirás un ratito de "El Chavo"?
Este año no tuve tiempo de mirarlo cuando volví a Argentina, pero el año anterior (2007) estoy seguro que un rato lo miré. Un grande Ron Damón!


solaregh
¿Cuál es tu Marca de TV y de cuántas pulgadas? Si no es nuevo y hoy tuvieras que comprar… ¿Cuál sería?
Tengo varios y de distintas marcas. Acá Samsung y LG. En Argentina Sony y LG. No estoy muy informado al respecto. Cuando necesite supongo que investigaré mas detalladamente.

¿Grabás programas de la TV? ¿Con que sistema?
Tengo DVR que provee mi cable. Sí, grabo algunos, pero no soy un fana de la tele. En Argentina no grabo.

¿Bluray a full o seguís con DVD?
DVD y lo que esté dando el cable en ese momento. Hay muchísimos canales de películas y siempre encuentro algo (ahora están dando Seven, que la vi como 50 veces).


Jalberto
Completando la encuesta tecnológica de Germán… ¿Todavía usás la notebook con el manchón en la pantalla?
No, quedó a un lado la pobrecita! El manchón terminó ocupando el 40% de la pantalla, lo que la hace inusable salvo con un monitor externo. Una lástima. Me afecciono a mis computadoras.


Romy_013
Todos tenemos una canción favorita; ese tema que ponés para que se repita una y otra vez... ¿Cuál es el tuyo?
Me gustan mucho varios temas, pero depende el estado anímico. Desconexion Sideral de la Bersuit me gusta mucho. Bicho de Ciudad de Los Piojos. Prohibido y Una nueva noche fría de Callejeros. Balada del Diablo y la Muerte de La Renga. El Fantasma de Arbol Internacional, Mr.Jones es uno de mis temas preferidos de siempre. Shook me all night Long y Back in Black de ACDC también. Que se yo! Son las que me salieron ahora, pero como ya saben, Bersuit y Callejeros me gusta mucho y escucho bastante. El último CD de Los Piojos me gusta todo. Fito un grande, Calamaro me gusta…


Fernando
¿Pudiste leer la nota de John Hollinger de ESPN? En resumen, en su predicción para la temporada, dice que quedaran 5tos en el oeste, (record de 47-35), en gran parte debido a tu lesión en la primera parte de la temporada, ya que no podrán reemplazarte bien, y además a que el plantel esta un poco "pasado de años"...
¿Cuál es tu opinión al respecto? Si querés responderle por esta vía...
Estamos pasados de edad hace rato y seguimos ganando bastantes partidos y campeonatos. Cada año es una nueva historia, veremos. Yo espero no perderme tantos partidos como para que influya en el resultado final del equipo, aunque es difícil saberlo hoy.


Francisco
¿Qué piensas con respecto a el problema que se le presentaron a Arthur, Beasley y de Mario Chalmers? (con respecto a las drogas). ¿Y del problema de Monta Ellis (lesión por practicar otro deporte cuando las reglas te lo impiden) y Josh Howard (persona que admitió drogarse con marihuana y su falta de respeto a su nacionalidad).
Todos temas muy delicados. Lo de los primeros tres fue un papelón por las circunstancias. Novatos participando del programa de adaptación que pide la NBA, el resto no los conozco con profundidad, pero es una lástima. Ambos son buenas personas pero que cometieron errores un poco irresponsables.

¿Sabés en qué se basa el juego de Greg Oden?
No lo conozco mucho. Tengo ganas de verlo. Se que es muy grande y muy atlético, pero no lo vi en acción.

¿Estás viendo partidos de la pre-temporada? ¿Quién te sorprendió de los jugadores?.
No, no los veo.


maxi_20
¿Cuál fue el primer auto que tuviste? Cúanto lo pagaste?
En el ’97 le compré a mi papá el Fiat Regatta modelo 92 que tenía. No recuerdo como fue la transacción! Je je. Pero si no me equivoco lo que hicimos fue darle un precio al auto cuando me lo “adueñé” y después cuando me fui a Italia y lo vendió pagarle la diferencia. Si terminó siendo así o no, hay discrepancias! Je je. Pero esa era la idea. Creo que valía unos 6000 pesos, pero… ¿quién puede estar seguro?


¿Qué auto tenés en la actualidad? ¿Cuánto te costo?
Este tema prefiero evitarlo.


¿Jugás a la Play? ¿A qué juegos? ¿Jugás con vos mismo al NBA Live?
No, no juego a la Play. Tengo una Wii que me regalaron, pero que por ahora la uso muy poco. Nunca jugué un NBA Live desde que estoy en la NBA.


¿Recordás cuál fue tu peor borrachera? ¿Cuándo y en dónde? ¿Y cómo terminaste!? Jaja
Jeje! Que tema delicado. Creo que fue festejando un campeonato en Italia, pero casualmente no lo recuerdo bien! ;-)


nico_05
¿Cómo te ves esta temporada?
Muy “sexy”, fuerte y con mas cabello que nunca! ;-)

¿Hay algún rookie que te haya llamado la atención o que te guste?
No vi a ninguno todavía.


Cesar421
Honestamente… ¿cuándo crees tu que volverás a jugar? Leí en una nota de mysanantonio.com que estarás listo para diciembre, pero tu… ¿para cuándo crees que estarás 100% listo?
No lo sé, pero espero que sea a fin de Noviembre.

¿Pop no te ha dicho que quisiera tenerte en descanso el resto de la temporada y que regreses para los playoffs?
Sería realmente muy cómico si me dice eso! Que hago los casi 6 meses que faltan? Ahí sí que me tiene que agarrar un Monumental lleno de psicólogos! No no, no lo digas dos veces a ver si te escucha y le gusta la idea!


Eisen
¿Te gusta CQC?
No soy un fanático, pero si estoy en casa y no tengo ningún asadito con familia o amigos lo miro.

¿Jugás a los videojuegos? ¿Y tus compañeros de los Spurs?
No, los videojuegos no son lo mío.

¿Qué te parece el Baby Etchecopar?
Un personaje. No lo escucho en la radio, pero lo vi un par de veces en tele y se que es muy cómico. Tengo familiares que lo escuchan y les encanta, pero cuando estoy en Argentina escucho muy poca radio también.

¿Hace cuanto no vas al Monumental?
No estoy seguro de haber ido alguna vez a ver un partido al Monumental! Con eso te digo todo! Creo que nunca.


Jokinen
¿Pudiste ver la pelicula mexicana "La ley de Herodes"? ¿Te gustó?
No, no la pude ver, pero busqué críticas y dicen que es muy buena. La voy a ver cuando empiece a viajar más seguido. Tengo muchas acumuladas.


carina_ginomania,
Most important question: how are you? How is your recovery going? Any updates on when you can be back on the court to practice?
I’m doing very good. Getting better every day. Little bit at time. No idea when I’ll be able to practice with the guys, but I still have a couple weeks to go for that at least.

Are you going to make HEB commercials with the Spurs again? Who will replace Brent?
I’ll be in the HEB commercials and there’s no substitute for Brent. Tim, Bruce and me. We’ll miss him. “Mango trees don’t do that, Manu”! ;-)

Did Brent also send you a text message with a picture of him and Luis, saying that he has finally found an Argentine teammate that he likes?
How did you know? Yes, it’s true. He did it because he misses me!

The Express News reported that the Spurs had a yoga session after practice last week. Did you see your teammates doing it? Have you ever tried yoga before?
We did it twice. We ALL did it. I’ve done it once before, but I’m not big fan of it.


otoño
Respondeme porfa!!! ¿Qué significa Dios en tu vida?
No soy creyente.

Solamente eso queria saber!
Mirá que fácil!! Así sí que pudiera responder 200.000 preguntas.


#20spurs
¿Cuál te parece que es el nivel de la liga NCAA en los Estados Unidos comparado con el de las ligas europeas (ACB, etc...)?
No tengo idea! Miro solo algunos partidos del campeonato y se juega muy distinto que en la NBA y muy distinto que en Europa. Jugadores de muy poca experiencia, bastante inocentes, pero de enorme capacidad atlética e intensidad. Lo que ganan en un área lo pierden en otra. Imagino que es un poco menos que la ACB, pero no estoy seguro de lo que digo.

Antes de llegar a jugar en la Liga… ¿qué era lo que mas trabajabas, el tiro, salto, dribbling, musculatura?
Físicamente y el tiro. La primera no dio resultados, la segunda un poco sí.


Gabyboedo
¿Tenés raqueta? ¿Cuál?
Uhh! Tengo 2 raquetas, una que compré y otra que me regaló Coria hace como mil años. Si no me equivoco la que compré es Prince, pero ni presté atención. Fue Sepo y agarró las primeras 2 que vió.

¿Golpe favorito y golpe que más te cuesta?
Drive es el que más fácil me sale y el revés sin slice me complica mucho. Pero soy un burro total. No jugué más de 10 partidos en mi vida, eh! Me gusta, pero no lo puedo jugar lamentablemente.

¿Estilo de juego? ¿Sos de jugar de fondo o de ir a la red a cerrar? Si no sos de ir a cerrar a la red te lo recomiendo, con el metro noventa y ocho que medís, no te debería pasar nadie!! ¿Sos de comprarte ropa de tenis para jugarlo o te ponés cualquier pantalón y remera?
No tengo estilo aún! Je je. No lo pude identificar! Y no! Definitivamente no me compro ropa de tenis, las veces que lo hice, fue con look basquetbolista, pero con zapatillas bajas.


Aleppin
Varias veces dijiste que no te interesan demasiado los videojuegos, pero de todas formas me pregunto si te genera algo ver que te hacen particularmente detallado y que sos figura en los juegos. Creo que es un indicador de lo que representás en la liga. En el NBA Live anterior el comentarista era Steve Kerr y en una parte decía "Manu used to school me in practice" jajaja.
Creo que a Steve Kerr hasta Pop “schooled him” in practice! Je je. No era precisamente el mejor defensor de la liga! (Un chiste, Steve es un GRANDE). Sí, es un indicador de respeto y prefiero que “me hagan bueno” a malo, solo eso.

¿Tony salió en tapa del juego en Europa, se pone insufrible o no le da importancia?
Salió en la tapa de USA este año! Europa creo que fue el año pasado. No, no se pone insufrible, no dice nada. Ya estamos todos acostumbrados a verlo en todos lados!

Pop parece complicadísimo como coach, pero a la vez parece un gran tipo. ¿Tenés onda con él fuera de la organización o todo esta circunscripto a los Spurs?
Sí, tengo muy buena relación con él y su familia. Es un GRAN tipo (sí, con mayúsculas).


fabri'sgirls
¿Por qué los jugadores lesionados NBA viajan con sus equipos en las giras y partidos de visitante, es por algo anímico del jugador o por la recuperación de la lesión aprovechando al cuerpo médico que viaja? ¿Tal vez por otra cosa?
Depende la lesión, pero si no es grave se viaja para hacer rehabilitación con los trainers. Muchas veces no se juega, pero se entrena, entonces tenés que estar con el equipo.

¿Por qué creés que la CABB no sacó un DVD oficial como sí hicieron la UAR (Union Argentina de Rugby) y la AFA (Asociación de Futbol Argentina) aprovechando los mayores logros de sus selecciones?
No tengo la más mínima idea. Ni sabía que la UAR y la AFA habían sacado los suyos. Anda a CABB.com.ar y preguntales…

Fabri le dijo a una revista que la relación que tiene con vos es de novios. ¿En qué etapa de ese noviazgo pensás que están?
En la crisis de los 7 años… La luna de miel ya pasó.


NANA
Hope you are healing just fine and getting ready to mentally play what you do best. Like I've mentioned before I've been a Rocket fan most of my life and most recently I became a Manu Ginobili fan (dummy me I waited too long) and honestly I hope you can forgive me for not being a Spur fan.
Okay, here is my question....Is there any chance on earth I could possibly get a picture of you & Scola at a Spurs & Rockets game? I know I might be asking for too much, but well, you never know. If your answer is yes, I will wear a shirt with both Rockets and Spurs on it. You won't miss me. Please,please say "yes".

I’ll do my best to make it happen and remember. But is not that easy since the locker rooms are on opposite ends of the courts


ge
Como no se bien qué preguntar, me interesaría probar tu memoria en un momento puntual de tu carrera que, curiosamente, varios marcan como de quiebre en un contexto de despegue. Tu padre, tu hermano Leandro y hasta Pepe hablan mucho de un partido de sub 22 en la cancha de 9 de julio que la rompiste. Recalcan una volcada. ¿Qué te acordás (si es que te acordás)? Sí, me acuerdo! Tengo un amigo muy íntimo que me lo recuerda seguido, ya que él jugaba en 9 de Julio y casualmente me defendió por gran parte del partido, así que siempre dice que llegué a donde llegué gracias a él! Los aros de 9 de Julio eran famosos en su momento porque eran los más bajos de Bahía, eso hay que decirlo también, eh!


WALY
Una sola pregunta y para que no digas después que no hay lugar en la Agenda ¿Se puede hacer una Reunión de los Miembros de la Página después de que termine la temporada, con fines deportivos, solidarios, etílicos o de lo que sea, en algún lugar, preferentemente Bahiense del Norte?
¿Los 4993 que hay registrados hasta el momento? Por qué no esperás que terminemos el estadio y lo hacemos ahí? Je je.


florencia_arg
Este fin de semana fui al Pepsi Music a ver a Los Decadentes (pronto voy a poner las fotos q saqué ), Fito Paez y Calamaro y me quedó otra duda con respecto a tus gustos musicales… ¿sos de escuchar la música de Andres Calamaro, te gustan sus canciones, tenés algún disco de él?
Sí, como dije arriba me gusta mucho Calamaro. El último que tengo es El Regreso y me lo escucho seguido. Alta Suciedad es genial también, me acuerdo que lo escuchaba todo el día en Reggio Calabria!

Como ya se acerca mi cumple ( 20/10) me adelante y me hice un auto regalo. Me compré dos remeras de tu marca de ropa ( una azul que tiene tu contorno y alrededor de la misma tiene palabras en inglés y la naranja que dice you can play. ¿Las remeras las diseñaste vos? ¿Fue gente de Nike las que la diseñaron?
Tuve charlas con ellos y les conté sobre mis gustos, los colores que quería, lo que yo usaba y esas cosas. Ellos iban trayéndome ideas y yo descartaba, aprobaba o pedía alguna modificación. TeamWork como le dicen. Mis favoritas son las remeras de las siluetas y el buzo con capucha que me parece genial, pero me gustan todas en serio.


REL_ampago
Tantas cosas que decir, pero seria poco operativo ¿no? Tratar de entretenerte con demasiadas cosas. Me llamo al silencio y procedo a la pregunta por nuestro bien jaja. Si tuvieras que decirle algo a un jugador como para lograr incentivarlo tanto en el juego como en la vida ¿Que le dirías? ¿Encontrarías una frase (no necesariamente una sola) que lo lleve a sacar lo mejor de sí en la cancha y fuera de ella? Tengo miles de preguntas, como ya dije tengo mucho para decirte, pero por ser la primera vez que tengo la oportunidad de preguntar va solo una. Un gran defecto mío es que tiendo a escribir demasiado y de seguro aburro... Así que hasta ahí, no más.
Mirá relámpago, la verdad que las preguntas son muy buenas, pero complejas y necesitan desarrollo, cosa que después de responder unas 50, no te puedo ofrecer! Creo que prefiero en este momento la del color fucsia del inicio! Divertite con el básquet que es solo un deporte, un gran deporte y viví la vida que es corta, a pleno y siempre respetando al de al lado.
En este preciso momento es lo que me sale decirte.



Como siempre un abrazo grande a todos y hasta la próxima oportunidad.




» manuginobili.com

[timvp]

Respondeme porfa!!! ¿Qué significa Dios en tu vida?
No soy creyente.


Did Manu say he doesn't believe in God?

:stirpot:




P.S.

My 9th grade Spanish might be wrong.

[Typhoon]

Did Manu say he doesn't believe in God?

:stirpot:




P.S.

My 9th grade Spanish might be wrong.

That's correct.
He's a smart guy.

[Xylus]

So Manu's an atheist, eh? I might have to start liking the guy now.

[T Park]

Wow.

What will the church of Manu do, if Manu himself doesn't believe in churchs?

[T Park]

So Manu's an atheist, eh? I might have to start liking the guy now.

Look just because your prayers of getting a ring every year aren't answered doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

[Xylus]

Look just because your prayers of getting a ring every year aren't answered doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

I think the suffering of Suns fans is the best available proof of God's non-existence. I mean really, how hard is it for Him to keep Diaw and Stoudemire on the bench?

[1Parker1]

I think the suffering of Suns fans is the best available proof of God's non-existence. I mean really, how hard is it for Him to keep Diaw and Stoudemire on the bench?


:lol Sorry, but that was pretty funny.....

[carina_gino20]

:lol at Xylus

Manu said he is not a believer.

[baseline bum]

Look just because your prayers of getting a ring every year aren't answered doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

cold :lol

[timvp]

Damn, I was halfway kidding. I really thought it said "I haven't thought about it".

I guess the Church of Manu will have to be known from now on as the Casa of Manu. I would say Casa de Manu but CdM doesn't look as good as CoM.

:smokin

[DPG21920]

Well Manu is entitled to his opinion, but I would be shocked if he does not believe in god.

[timvp]

Well Manu is entitled to his opinion, but I would be shocked if he does not believe in god.He just said he doesn't . . .

[LakerHater]

Autumn: Answer a question please! What meaning does God have in your life?
Manu: I am not Believing!

[Thompson]

Look just because your prayers of getting a ring every year aren't answered doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

It's not that He doesn't answer, it's just that the answer is always a deafening "NO!"

[DPG21920]

That is a loose translation and he could be joking or it could be taken out of context. Manu is smart and I highly doubt even if he did not believe that he would post it for the world to read. Who is he Josh Howard?

[Xylus]

That is a loose translation and he could be joking or it could be taken out of context. Manu is smart and I highly doubt even if he did not believe that he would post it for the world to read. Who is he Josh Howard?

What's wrong with announcing to the world that you don't believe in God? Why should a person be ashamed of that?

It's not like he has sex with animals, or roots for the Knicks.

[baseline bum]

That is a loose translation and he could be joking or it could be taken out of context. Manu is smart and I highly doubt even if he did not believe that he would post it for the world to read. Who is he Josh Howard?

What part of 'I am no believer' sounds like a joke? How can 'No soy creyente' mean anything else? Unless it's an idiom (and it doesn't sound like it is, but I'll wait for the opinion of a native speaker), it's pretty clear that it's saying he doesn't believe in god. Good for Manu.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Jesus called he wants his name back.

[DPG21920]

What's wrong with announcing to the world that you don't believe in God? Why should a person be ashamed of that?

There is nothing "wrong" with it. If that is what you believe, that is what you believe. God gave everyone the choice to have free will and choose for themselves. I am saying someone as smart as Manu, even though he might not believe would be more careful choosing his words in a public forum. Just like there is nothing wrong with saying you hate the National Anthem because America gives you the choice, does not mean there is not a time and place to make your opinions known in a palatable way.

[DPG21920]

What part of 'I am no believer' sounds like a joke? How can 'No soy creyente' mean anything else? Unless it's an idiom (and it doesn't sound like it is, but I'll wait for the opinion of a native speaker), it's pretty clear that it's saying he doesn't believe in god. Good for Manu.

Good for you.

[baseline bum]

There is nothing "wrong" with it. If that is what you believe, that is what you believe. God gave everyone the choice to have free will and choose for themselves. I am saying someone as smart as Manu, even though he might not believe would be more careful choosing his words in a public forum. Just like there is nothing wrong with saying you hate the National Anthem because America gives you the choice, does not mean there is not a time and place to make your opinions known in a palatable way.

Why should anyone censor himself when someone asks him a question? God didn't give anyone free will because there's no god to give it. Fuck anyone who would think less of Manu for telling what he thinks. You're somewhat right though, there is a time and place for letting your opinions be known: all the time and everywhere.

[DPG21920]

Why should anyone censor himself when someone asks him a question? God didn't give anyone free will because there's no god to give it. Fuck anyone who would think less of Manu for telling what he thinks. You're somewhat right though, there is a time and place for letting your opinions be known: all the time and everywhere.

You must be Josh Howard's PR person

[DPG21920]

Why should anyone censor himself when someone asks him a question? God didn't give anyone free will because there's no god to give it. Fuck anyone who would think less of Manu for telling what he thinks. You're somewhat right though, there is a time and place for letting your opinions be known: all the time and everywhere.

Fuck anyone for judging Hitler or fuck anyone for judging KKK members right? They are just telling people what they think: all the time and everywhere

[carina_gino20]

Can urunobili or are other amigos restore some peace in this thread and translate the rest of the piece? :angel :)

Some people believe, and some don't. Maybe we can just leave it at that.

The Hitler reference is too much. Nobody is telling anyone what to believe or not to believe. Definitely not Manu.

[baseline bum]

Fuck anyone for judging Hitler or fuck anyone for judging KKK members right? They are just telling people what they think: all the time and everywhere

Don't you know you automatically lose any internet argument when you bust out the Hitler card? Who the fuck are you to judge Manu anyways?

[DPG21920]

He can believe whatever he wants to believe. It makes no difference to me. But to act like superstars in the limelight spouting off about really inflammatory subjects has no bearing on perception is just naive. What he believes is between himself and god or whomever he believes in.

[baseline bum]

He can believe whatever he wants to believe. It makes no difference to me. But to act like superstars in the limelight spouting off about really inflammatory subjects has no bearing on perception is just naive. What he believes is between himself and god or whomever he believes in.

Bullshit. Manu's a grown fucking man who can speak his mind. People who think religion has to be handled with kiddie gloves are morons.

[DPG21920]

Don't you know you automatically lose any internet argument when you bust out the Hitler card? Who the fuck are you to judge Manu anyways?

If you can point out anytime I judged Manu I would gladly shut up. I have said over and over that he can believes what he wants. No you do not lose any cred when you bust out the Hitler card. If you will back someone up based on their "beliefs", you must back up all comers or lose your cred.

[carina_gino20]

He can believe whatever he wants to believe. It makes no difference to me. But to act like superstars in the limelight spouting off about really inflammatory subjects has no bearing on perception is just naive. What he believes is between himself and god or whomever he believes in.

How is he acting like a superstar in the limelight? Somebody asked him a question and he answered it honestly without embellishments.

I'm a believer, but I don't see why Manu's simple answer can be construed as anything other than an honest answer.

[SAtown]

That's correct.
He's a smart guy.

What leads you to believe he is a smart guy from that simple statement?

[baseline bum]

Just like AJ can say he won the title because Jesus believed in him. I disagree, but it's his right and I don't think any less of him for saying it. If he got up and started preaching hellfire and brimstone that would be different.

[baseline bum]

If you can point out anytime I judged Manu I would gladly shut up. I have said over and over that he can believes what he wants. No you do not lose any cred when you bust out the Hitler card. If you will back someone up based on their "beliefs", you must back up all comers or lose your cred.

You said he should have kept the answer to himself. That's where.

[DPG21920]

Just like AJ can say he won the title because Jesus believed in him. I disagree, but it's his right and I don't think any less of him for saying it. If he got up and started preaching hellfire and brimstone that would be different.

I do not think any less of Manu. I think that if this is true he was incredibly stupid for posting such a inflammatory answer on the world wide web. No judgments on what he believes. But in this world in which he lives, he must be more careful with what he says. It brings a lot of negative attention (believer or not) to a team that does not value that (especially after how he is viewed bc of the injury).

[DPG21920]

You said he should have kept the answer to himself. That's where.

No, I said he should of gave a more palatable answer to such an inflammatory question. Especially since it would be seen by the world. You cannot back up one belief bc it is in line with what you believe and then dismiss radical views if they are just being honest in what they believe such as the KKK or Hitler. May be extreme but when you are public figures (such as many of these misguided souls) if you are free to be honest and to believe what you want, then everyone must be free. It is the quintessential basis upon what freedom is founded.

[baseline bum]

I do not think any less of Manu. I think that if this is true he was incredibly stupid for posting such a inflammatory answer on the world wide web. No judgments on what he believes. But in this world in which he lives, he must be more careful with what he says. It brings a lot of negative attention (believer or not) to a team that does not value that (especially after how he is viewed bc of the injury).

So do you think David Robinson is stupid for bringing up God in both interviews after winning titles? Of course not, because he believes the same thing you do.

[Xylus]

No, I said he should of gave a more palatable answer to such an inflammatory question. Especially since it would be seen by the world. You cannot back up one belief bc it is in line with what you believe and then dismiss radical views if they are just being honest in what they believe such as the KKK or Hitler. May be extreme but when you are public figures (such as many of these misguided souls) if you are free to be honest and to believe what you want, then everyone must be free. It is the quintessential basis upon what freedom is founded.

Are you really comparing the absence of faith to being a member of the KKK or supporting Hitler?

[baseline bum]

No, I said he should of gave a more palatable answer to such an inflammatory question. Especially since it would be seen by the world. You cannot back up one belief bc it is in line with what you believe and then dismiss radical views if they are just being honest in what they believe such as the KKK or Hitler. May be extreme but when you are public figures (such as many of these misguided souls) if you are free to be honest and to believe what you want, then everyone must be free. It is the quintessential basis upon what freedom is founded.

More palatable answer? Like what? He didn't say 'fuck god' or 'religion is a fraud' or anything like that. He said he doesn't believe. How much more palatable do you want it?

[JamStone]

Fuck anyone for judging Hitler or fuck anyone for judging KKK members right? They are just telling people what they think: all the time and everywhere

WTF????

If all they did was talk, it wouldn't have been a problem. But, uh, they killed and lynched, maimed and tortured. How the fuck do you equate that to someone making a comment about his beliefs or lack thereof?

That is one of the most moronic comparisons you could possibly make.

[DPG21920]

So do you think David Robinson is stupid for bringing up God in both interviews after winning titles? Of course not, because he believes the same thing you do.

No because believing in God is much more in line with what the vast majority of people in this country believe. Do you vote? The presidential candidates always align themselves with religion bc it gets them votes. Is that right? It is debatable. Do I like it? No. It has nothing to do with what I believe. My understanding of God differs a lot from the vast majority of people I come in contact with. I am purely saying from a point of view that aligns with the same people that grilled Howard for his comments or any other comments that draw negative attention. Even though it was an honest answer and one that he is more than entitled to, he should not have said it in a public forum. He could of easily not answered the question and skipped all of the trouble.

[tp2021]

Thread Title: Manu responds to the forum (Translation needed)

[Xylus]

I think this thread got lost in translation.

[baseline bum]

No because believing in God is much more in line with what the vast majority of people in this country believe. Do you vote? The presidential candidates always align themselves with religion bc it gets them votes. Is that right? It is debatable. Do I like it? No. It has nothing to do with what I believe. My understanding of God differs a lot from the vast majority of people I come in contact with. I am purely saying from a point of view that aligns with the same people that grilled Howard for his comments or any other comments that draw negative attention. Even though it was an honest answer and one that he is more than entitled to, he should not have said it in a public forum. He could of easily not answered the question and skipped all of the trouble.

Who gives a shit what the vast majority of people think? It's an answer to the same inflammatory question. You're a moron for telling Manu he shouldn't say what he thinks.

[DPG21920]

Are you really comparing the absence of faith to being a member of the KKK or supporting Hitler?


More palatable answer? Like what? He didn't say 'fuck god' or 'religion is a fraud' or anything like that. He said he doesn't believe. How much more palatable do you want it?


WTF????

If all they did was talk, it wouldn't have been a problem. But, uh, they killed and lynched, maimed and tortured. How the fuck do you equate that to someone making a comment about his beliefs or lack thereof?

That is one of the most moronic comparisons you could possibly make.

You are missing the point completely. The point is that if you defend one opinion, right or wrong, you must defend all. It is a slippery slope. Do I think that Manu is as bad as Hitler or the KKK? Not even close. Do I think Manu and Hitler and the KKK have rights as individuals, yes. That is the point. Not every KKK member lynches, maims or tortures people. Are they wrong in their beliefs? I believe so. But they are entitled to their beliefs just as everyone else in this country or any country until they cross a line that violates another humans ability to live their own life.

[JamStone]

He could of easily not answered the question and skipped all of the trouble.

No, because dipshits like you would have criticized him for not answering the question, leaving open the possibility that he was an atheist thereby responding with an inflammatory non-response to a question about religion.

[Xylus]

You are missing the point completely. The point is that if you defend one opinion, right or wrong, you must defend all. It is a slippery slope. Do I think that Manu is as bad as Hitler or the KKK? Not even close. Do I think Manu and Hitler and the KKK have rights as individuals, yes. That is the point. Not every KKK member lynches, maims or tortures people. Are they wrong in their beliefs? I believe so. But they are entitled to their beliefs just as everyone else in this country or any country until they cross a line that violates another humans ability to live their own life.

The point you were making is that people, particularly those in the limelight, should choose their words carefully and watch what they say in order to protect their image. That's a contrary point to the one you just made in the quote above.

[carina_gino20]

Uh, can we get back on track?

[DPG21920]

Who gives a shit what the vast majority of people think? It's an answer to the same inflammatory question. You're a moron for telling Manu he shouldn't say what he thinks.

Your a fucking moron for being uneducated about anything. I never said he cannot believe in what ever he wants. I said that since he is a public figure, he should not respond to such questions, whether or not he believes or does not believe. You seem like the same type of person that believes shit like this

Q2fGl9587X8

[baseline bum]

You are missing the point completely. The point is that if you defend one opinion, right or wrong, you must defend all.

So then fuck free speech? Brilliant. Yes, I defend anyone's right to say whatever in the hell they want, popular or not. Even idiots like you.

[JamStone]

You are missing the point completely. The point is that if you defend one opinion, right or wrong, you must defend all. It is a slippery slope. Do I think that Manu is as bad as Hitler or the KKK? Not even close. Do I think Manu and Hitler and the KKK have rights as individuals, yes. That is the point. Not every KKK member lynches, maims or tortures people. Are they wrong in their beliefs? I believe so. But they are entitled to their beliefs just as everyone else in this country or any country until they cross a line that violates another humans ability to live their own life.

Nope, you missed the point completely.

People like Hitler and the KKK aren't judged so harshly for their opinions as much as they are judged for their actions. If Hitler and the KKK never killed, tortured, abused, and otherwise caused mayhem, they would not be judged they way they are. It's their hateful and criminal actions, not their opinions, that cannot be defended.

[DPG21920]

No, because dipshits like you would have criticized him for not answering the question, leaving open the possibility that he was an atheist thereby responding with an inflammatory non-response to a question about religion.

Ya that makes sense. So you are saying it does not matter what you believe, you should just say what you want no matter what the question is at all? No one would of known there was such a question if it was not posted on his website or replied to. I do not give a shit if he believes that aliens are coming to grab him when he is dead. I believe that public figures need to be careful with what they say.

[hitmanyr2k]

No because believing in God is much more in line with what the vast majority of people in this country believe. Do you vote? The presidential candidates always align themselves with religion bc it gets them votes. Is that right? It is debatable. Do I like it? No. It has nothing to do with what I believe. My understanding of God differs a lot from the vast majority of people I come in contact with. I am purely saying from a point of view that aligns with the same people that grilled Howard for his comments or any other comments that draw negative attention. Even though it was an honest answer and one that he is more than entitled to, he should not have said it in a public forum. He could of easily not answered the question and skipped all of the trouble.

Huh? What the fuck is wrong with telling the truth these days?

[Sherlock Holmes]

Timvp.................all your fault.

[DPG21920]

The point you were making is that people, particularly those in the limelight, should choose their words carefully and watch what they say in order to protect their image. That's a contrary point to the one you just made in the quote above.

How? Being able to believe what you want versus spewing what you believe to millions of people is a lot different. If you are an average joe, than yes. But like it or not, famous people are judged more harshly than others. Where do you think the term paparazzi came from?

[baseline bum]

How? Being able to believe what you want versus spewing what you believe to millions of people is a lot different. If you are an average joe, than yes. But like it or not, famous people are judged more harshly than others. Where do you think the term paparazzi came from?

Manu's spewing what he believes because he honestly answered a question from a fan who asked him something? He didn't call a press conference to say he didn't believe. He didn't say it in any way to logically consider it an insult, although you appear to take it that way.

[Xylus]

How? Being able to believe what you want versus spewing what you believe to millions of people is a lot different. If you are an average joe, than yes. But like it or not, famous people are judged more harshly than others. Where do you think the term paparazzi came from?

What I don't understand is why you keep attributing negativity to the absence of faith. You refer to atheism/agnosticism as if its an extremely dirty word. How is complete neutrality in regards to the world's multitude of religions, a bad thing?

[DPG21920]

Huh? What the fuck is wrong with telling the truth these days?

Ask our presidents and Josh Howard.

[baseline bum]

What I don't understand is why you keep attributing negativity to the absence of faith. You refer to atheism/agnosticism as if its an extremely dirty word. How is complete neutrality in regards to the world's multitude of religions, a bad thing?

Because the bible essentially says someone is worse than Hitler if he doesn't believe.

[DPG21920]

What I don't understand is why you keep attributing negativity to the absence of faith. You refer to atheism/agnosticism as if its an extremely dirty word. How is complete neutrality in regards to the world's multitude of religions, a bad thing?

No. Not a dirty word at all. Inflammatory, yes. That is all. His absence of faith does not bother me at all. His judgment on where to discuss such issues does bother me.

[baseline bum]

Nothing wrong with what Josh Howard said either. It's assholes like you that got all up in arms over his comments about smoking.

[DPG21920]

Because the bible essentially says someone is worse than Hitler if he doesn't believe.

Nope, you uneducated bastard!

[DPG21920]

Nothing wrong with what Josh Howard said either. It's assholes like you that got all up in arms over his comments about smoking.

Ya I got all worked up. Just like an asshole like yourself getting all worked up over this. Get real kid

[baseline bum]

No. Not a dirty word at all. Inflammatory, yes. That is all. His absence of faith does not bother me at all. His judgment on where to discuss such issues does bother me.

So if you don't believe, then just shut your fucking mouth because believers shouldn't be challenged?

[JamStone]

Ya that makes sense. So you are saying it does not matter what you believe, you should just say what you want no matter what the question is at all? No one would of known there was such a question if it was not posted on his website or replied to. I do not give a shit if he believes that aliens are coming to grab him when he is dead. I believe that public figures need to be careful with what they say.

Anyone can say anything they want if they believe what they are saying and are being honest. What's wrong with expressing an opinion? You give extreme examples of Hitler and the KKK where there words and opinions translated into hateful and criminal action. That's completely different. If Manu said, "I hate people who believe in God and I hope anyone who does dies," that's different. That's not what he said. All he said was he didn't believe in God. Not hateful, not criminal, not even controversial as you suggest. Just an honest, personal answer. Let it go. You have no solid or basis or reasonable foundation for your argument.

[Xylus]

Ya I got all worked up. Just like an asshole like yourself getting all worked up over this. Get real kid

Difference is, baseline's defending someone's right to express an opinion, and you're encouraging willful self-censorship.

[DPG21920]

Manu's spewing what he believes because he honestly answered a question from a fan who asked him something? He didn't call a press conference to say he didn't believe. He didn't say it in any way to logically consider it an insult, although you appear to take it that way.

You are a judgmental bastard (with poor comprehension) for someone preaching not being judgmental.

[baseline bum]

You are a judgmental bastard (with poor comprehension) for someone preaching not being judgmental.

I think you're drunk or something. None of your arguments make any sense unless you don't believe in people's rights to speak their minds.

[DPG21920]

Anyone can say anything they want if they believe what they are saying and are being honest. What's wrong with expressing an opinion? You give extreme examples of Hitler and the KKK where there words and opinions translated into hateful and criminal action. That's completely different. If Manu said, "I hate people who believe in God and I hope anyone who does dies," that's different. That's not what he said. All he said was he didn't believe in God. Not hateful, not criminal, not even controversial as you suggest. Just an honest, personal answer. Let it go. You have no solid or basis or reasonable foundation for your argument.

Yes I do. Because based on your opinions of right and wrong, if Manu said I hope people died, but did not execute any physical harm, it would just be words so he would not be persecuted. You are telling me saying anything (at all in any way, shape or form) is not controversial? That is just naive. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY BELIEF SYSTEMS. It has to do with choosing your words wisely.

[hitmanyr2k]

Ask our presidents and Josh Howard.

What a dumb comparison. Is Ginobili throwing his answer in anyone's face in a mocking way? All the guy did was answer a simple question. What's the problem? People say "I want to thank God" on TV all the time when accepting awards and shit and no one bat's an eye. A guy on his own forum says he doesn't believe in God and suddenly it's wrong :lol

Only idiots would complain about his comments.

[DPG21920]

I think you're drunk or something. None of your arguments make any sense unless you don't believe in people's rights to speak their minds.

Not drunk at all. Annoyed with people like you that think that you should be able to say whatever you want, whenever you want because you have this jaded sense of freedom. I am sure saying I do not believe in God will have no effect on anything a public figure does.

[baseline bum]

In other words, unpopular speech = wrong. Too bad for you our nation was founded on the right to express unpopular speech.

[DPG21920]

What a dumb comparison. Is Ginobili throwing his answer in anyone's face in a mocking way? All the guy did was answer a simple question. What's the problem? People say "I want to thank God" on TV all the time when accepting awards and shit and no one bat's an eye. A guy on his own forum says he doesn't believe in God and suddenly it's wrong :lol

Only idiots would complain about his comments.

Is saying I do not believe in God more controversial than saying praise God?

[Xylus]

Is saying I do not believe in God more controversial than saying praise God?

It shouldn't be.

[DPG21920]

In other words, unpopular speech = wrong. Too bad for you our nation was founded on the right to express unpopular speech.

I agree. But would you be so kind if he was saying racist comments? That is unpopular, but he is free to his opinions right?

[baseline bum]

Is saying I do not believe in God more controversial than saying praise God?

Only to people like you.

[DPG21920]

It shouldn't be.

That does not answer the question. Is it or is it not?

[Xylus]

That does not answer the question. Is it or is it not?

It certainly is here in the United States of Christianity, but for baseless and completely irrational reasons.

[DPG21920]

Only to people like you.

Ya because you know me or what I believe. Just as much as I know you or what you believe you judgmental...

[baseline bum]

I agree. But would you be so kind if he was saying racist comments? That is unpopular, but he is free to his opinions right?

Yes, Jason Williams had every right to talk shit to those fans about kicking their asses in the Vietnam War, just like all of us had the right to say he was a stupid hillbilly.

[DPG21920]

It certainly is here in the United States of Christianity, but for baseless and completely irrational reasons.

That was the only point I was trying to make. Thank you. No judgment, or beliefs of my own. Only that in the country and times that WE live in, that what he said is construed as "against the grain" and should be handled better. If free speech is for everyone and honesty appreciated, then you would see more people in the limelight speak up, especially athletes and government figures. Sad truth is: that is not how things work and unless you are willing to throw a Boston Tea Party, then handle things properly.

[tp2021]

Timvp.................all your fault.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao

[DPG21920]

Yes, Jason Williams had every right to talk shit to those fans about kicking their asses in the Vietnam War, just like all of us had the right to say he was a stupid hillbilly.

Nice Dodge.

[Xylus]

That was the only point I was trying to make. Thank you. No judgment, or beliefs of my own. Only that in the country and times that WE live in, that what he said is construed as "against the grain" and should be handled better. If free speech is for everyone and honesty appreciated, then you would see more people in the limelight speak up, especially athletes and government figures. Sad truth is: that is not how things work and unless you are willing to throw a Boston Tea Party, then handle things properly.

Acknowledging that saying one's an atheist is controversial in the United States, doesn't strengthen your point that people should avoid making controversial statements.

If you want a country that is more accepting of truly free speech, then wouldn't Ginobili's "against the grain" comment about his belief be a step in the right direction? The more people exercise their right to say whatever the hell they want, the more likely people will be allowed to do so in the future.


This is all a moot point, anyway, since the comment was made in Spanish. Few Americans will take the time to get up in arms about it.

[baseline bum]

Nice Dodge.

What do you mean nice dodge? I specifically brought up a time when a player said something racist and said he had every right to do it, exactly like Manu has the right to say what he wants even if it pisses you off.

[DPG21920]

You construe me as being non-American, but I stand up as much for people's rights as anyone. I stand up for everyone's rights, not just the people that align with what I believe. This has nothing to do with my belief system at all. It has to do with being a normal human and acting in a manner that adheres to today's standards to a certain degree.

[JamStone]

Yes I do. Because based on your opinions of right and wrong, if Manu said I hope people died, but did not execute any physical harm, it would just be words so he would not be persecuted. You are telling me saying anything (at all in any way, shape or form) is not controversial? That is just naive. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH MY BELIEF SYSTEMS. It has to do with choosing your words wisely.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Words that can be translated into hateful and criminal actions or be viewed as in such a manner should not be defended or protected under freedom of speech. Hate speech is not and should not be protected. And, if all the KKK or Hitler ever did was talk about white superiority and never hurt another human being, I wouldn't have a problem with their opinions either. It's how those words turn into action that should not be condoned or defended.

And, at any rate, Manu didn't say any hateful things. You keep bringing up the fact what Manu said was "inflammatory" but then turn around and say it doesn't bother you. If it doesn't bother you, how is it inflammatory?

[baseline bum]

You construe me as being non-American, but I stand up as much for people's rights as anyone. I stand up for everyone's rights, not just the people that align with what I believe. This has nothing to do with my belief system at all. It has to do with being a normal human and acting in a manner that adheres to today's standards to a certain degree.

Today's standards that tell someone to shut up and go with the status-quo are bullshit. Fuck 'em.

[vy65]

You do realize that Manu has a constitutionally protected right to say what he said. For example, in passing the Communications Decency Act, a federal statute directed at maintaining a certain level of decorum, congress explicitly noted that it wished to maintain the internet as a space of "robust public debate." In expressing his personal views on religion -- and as a public figure alot of people look up to -- Manu's words further congress's and the first amendment's intent -- use the internet to express political, social, cultural, and religious opinions.

Saying that he should keep his mouth shut and stay out of the limelight betrays a grotesque misunderstanding of this nations values.

[JamStone]

You construe me as being non-American, but I stand up as much for people's rights as anyone. I stand up for everyone's rights, not just the people that align with what I believe. This has nothing to do with my belief system at all. It has to do with being a normal human and acting in a manner that adheres to today's standards to a certain degree.

But you're not standing up for Manu's right to express his opinion here.

What are today's standards you're referring to?

[DPG21920]

What do you mean nice dodge? I specifically brought up a time when a player said something racist and said he had every right to do it, exactly like Manu has the right to say what he wants even if it pisses you off.

It does not piss me off. It makes me realize how so many people can be so socially awkward. There is a time and place for everything, and saying I do not believe in god (especially to fans that widely believe in god) is not something you just type on a forum. If you have a stance on a subject matter that is world renown (wars have been fought, blood has been spilled) you should really think about how you say things.

[Xylus]

This is probably the same guy who burned Dixie Chicks albums.

[DPG21920]

But you're not standing up for Manu's right to express his opinion here.

What are today's standards you're referring to?

Yes I am. He can believe whatever he wants. BUT AS A PUBLIC FIGURE he should be more careful with where he lets his opinions be known. If this causes such great debate on SpursTalk, imagine what it will cause when it hits WOAI or KSAT.

[baseline bum]

Yes I am. He can believe whatever he wants. BUT AS A PUBLIC FIGURE he should be more careful with where he lets his opinions be known. If this causes such great debate on SpursTalk, imagine what it will cause when it hits WOAI or KSAT.

So is David Robinson full of shit for saying he supports the war when the majority of people in this country are against it? Was he stupid to speak his mind on an inflammatory issue while expressing a contrarian view?

[Ronaldo McDonald]

No. Not a dirty word at all. Inflammatory, yes. That is all. His absence of faith does not bother me at all. His judgment on where to discuss such issues does bother me.

LOL

He's a basketball player. His job is to market himself, not win a presidential election. This doesn't hurt his marketablity at all.

It's really no big deal that he said what he said at all.

[vy65]

Yes I am. He can believe whatever he wants. BUT AS A PUBLIC FIGURE he should be more careful with where he lets his opinions be known. If this causes such great debate on SpursTalk, imagine what it will cause when it hits WOAI or KSAT.

Actually, as a public figure, we want him to speak to issues like this as opposed to being silent. Because he has access to WOAI or KSAT, he can express what, in your mind, is an unpopular opinion. That enables debate on a salient matter of public discourse -- religion. That makes us, as citizens, more informed, and thus better able to perform our civic duties. The constitution presumes that in response to Manu's comments, we would do exactly what we are doing here -- having a debate about religion and its place in our culture. You're alternative of having Manu mince his words would eliminate this debate, leaving us with . . .

Your alternative leaves us in a radically impoverished world of mono-cultural propaganda where dissenting views by prominent figures are silenced in lieu of us all towing a party line.

[urunobili]

Can urunobili or are other amigos restore some peace in this thread and translate the rest of the piece? :angel :)

Some people believe, and some don't. Maybe we can just leave it at that.

The Hitler reference is too much. Nobody is telling anyone what to believe or not to believe. Definitely not Manu.

urunobili is on vacations with a VERY sore back fighting pain to even read this... :depressed

[DPG21920]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Words that can be translated into hateful and criminal actions or be viewed as in such a manner should not be defended or protected under freedom of speech. Hate speech is not and should not be protected. And, if all the KKK or Hitler ever did was talk about white superiority and never hurt another human being, I wouldn't have a problem with their opinions either. It's how those words turn into action that should not be condoned or defended.

And, at any rate, Manu didn't say any hateful things. You keep bringing up the fact what Manu said was "inflammatory" but then turn around and say it doesn't bother you. If it doesn't bother you, how is it inflammatory?


Today's standards that tell someone to shut up and go with the status-quo are bullshit. Fuck 'em.


But you're not standing up for Manu's right to express his opinion here.

What are today's standards you're referring to?


This is probably the same guy who burned Dixie Chicks albums.

To ignore that fact that religion in not only America, but world-wide is an inflammatory subject matter is just naive. I believe that everyone is entitled to believe in God or not believe. That is the fundamental basis of God and Jesus in my opinion. It does not at all make me mad at Manu. What gets me is that knowing such a subject (right or wrong) is a hot-switch, that you should use better judgment in where you let your opinions be known. I think it is refreshing that people stand up for what they believe, but I also understand the way the world works (once again right or wrong).

[DPG21920]

This is probably the same guy who burned Dixie Chicks albums.

Ya! I am a huge believer in the power that the people hold and their rights. Just go back and read my comments on the bailout and other topics.

[DPG21920]

Actually, as a public figure, we want him to speak to issues like this as opposed to being silent. Because he has access to WOAI or KSAT, he can express what, in your mind, is an unpopular opinion. That enables debate on a salient matter of public discourse -- religion. That makes us, as citizens, more informed, and thus better able to perform our civic duties. The constitution presumes that in response to Manu's comments, we would do exactly what we are doing here -- having a debate about religion and its place in our culture. You're alternative of having Manu mince his words would eliminate this debate, leaving us with . . .

Your alternative leaves us in a radically impoverished world of mono-cultural propaganda where dissenting views by prominent figures are silenced in lieu of us all towing a party line.

You make no sense. I am all about having discussions on all topics. All I said is there is a time and place. This would be like Bush announcing we are going to Iraq on MySpace.

[Kori Ellis]

urunobili is on vacations with a VERY sore back fighting pain to even read this... :depressed

Sorry about that.


As for the rest of the thread, it's ridiculous that it's exploding into an argument with DPG21920.

As of Manu's response, I know that I have heard him say, "Thank God..." before, so it's weird that he said he doesn't believe.

[vy65]

You make no sense. I am all about having discussions on all topics. All I said is there is a time and place. This would be like Bush announcing we are going to Iraq on MySpace.

Where would be the time/place for Manu to express his personal opinions on religion?

[carina_gino20]

urunobili is on vacations with a VERY sore back fighting pain to even read this... :depressed

Excuses, excuses...


Go read the rest of this thread and see why we need the translation now.

:lol Kidding, of course.

[DPG21920]

Actually, as a public figure, we want him to speak to issues like this as opposed to being silent. Because he has access to WOAI or KSAT, he can express what, in your mind, is an unpopular opinion. That enables debate on a salient matter of public discourse -- religion. That makes us, as citizens, more informed, and thus better able to perform our civic duties. The constitution presumes that in response to Manu's comments, we would do exactly what we are doing here -- having a debate about religion and its place in our culture. You're alternative of having Manu mince his words would eliminate this debate, leaving us with . . .

Your alternative leaves us in a radically impoverished world of mono-cultural propaganda where dissenting views by prominent figures are silenced in lieu of us all towing a party line.

I do not even vote, ever. I am so disgusted how people are so concerned with "parties" that they do not even know where they stand. And I am an extremely educated person, at least by today's standards.

[DPG21920]

Where would be the time/place for Manu to express his personal opinions on religion?

Have a discussion with a well respected theological scholar or use your power to get your message across with a more respected medium other than a forum where you have guys like SequSpur posting crazy stuff!

[Slomo]

I do not think any less of Manu. I think that if this is true he was incredibly stupid for posting such a inflammatory answer on the world wide web. No judgments on what he believes. But in this world in which he lives, he must be more careful with what he says. It brings a lot of negative attention (believer or not) to a team that does not value that (especially after how he is viewed bc of the injury).

Hypocrites are better than atheists. Gotcha :tu


Bullshit. Manu's a grown fucking man who can speak his mind. People who think religion has to be handled with kiddie gloves are morons.

Thank you!

[carina_gino20]

Sorry about that.


As for the rest of the thread, it's ridiculous that it's exploding into an argument with DPG21920.

As of Manu's response, I know that I have heard him say, "Thank God..." before, so it's weird that he said he doesn't believe.

I'm wondering about that, too. I specifically remember him saying "We were praying for that ankle to be fine" referring to Timmy's rolled ankle in the 2005 Sonics series. But of course he could have just said that in passing.

This whole thing though has been terribly overblown.

[baseline bum]

Hey smart guy, answer my Robinson question.


So is David Robinson full of shit for saying he supports the war when the majority of people in this country are against it? Was he stupid to speak his mind on an inflammatory issue while expressing a contrarian view?

[vy65]

I do not even vote, ever. I am so disgusted how people are so concerned with "parties" that they do not even know where they stand. And I am an extremely educated person, at least by today's standards.

This has nothing to do with political parties, voting, or your intelligence. It has everything to do with the model of civic participation envisioned by the constitution and, in particular, the First Amendment.

Courts have, in the past 75 years, interpreted the first amendment as a catalyst for a market place of ideas. The notion is that, when speech is uninhibited, we express our ideas on a myriad of subjects -- politics, culture, and even religion -- with the result being we debate and thus become more intelligent.

Manu, as a prominent public figure both in Texas (which is right in the middle of the bible belt), America, and South America is in a prime position to facilitate such public debate on religion by saying what he said.

I think you're making a big deal out of something relatively small. He said this on his website -- it's not like he's letting it interfere with his job, his team-mates, or anything else really. Based on what you've said, Jon Amechi, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, etc . . . should keep quiet about homosexuality, politics, and HIV/AIDS because they're in public positions and are airing controversial views. That's a very impoverished view of civic participation and democracy itself.

[tp2021]

Have a discussion with a well respected theological scholar
Because we all have access to the most highly regarded people in their fields ready to have a conversation over coffee with the common man about our stupid opinions.

FAIL.


or use your power to get your message across with a more respected medium other than a forum where you have guys like DPG21920 posting crazy stuff!

FIFY.

[vy65]

Have a discussion with a well respected theological scholar or use your power to get your message across with a more respected medium other than a forum where you have guys like SequSpur posting crazy stuff!

It was posted on his website -- not here. Is he not entitled to express his religious views on www.manuginobili.com ?

[tp2021]

vy65 FTW...BANG!!

:lol

[DPG21920]

Because we all have access to the most highly regarded people in their fields ready to have a conversation over coffee with the common man about MY stupid opinions.


FIFY

[Ronaldo McDonald]

No because believing in God is much more in line with what the vast majority of people in this country believe. Do you vote? The presidential candidates always align themselves with religion bc it gets them votes.

This is hilarious. He's applying a presidential election philosophy to a manu forum.

[DPG21920]

It was posted on his website -- not here. Is he not entitled to express his religious views on www.manuginobili.com ?

Is it not a forum on the internet?

[hitmanyr2k]

Have a discussion with a well respected theological scholar or use your power to get your message across with a more respected medium other than a forum where you have guys like SequSpur posting crazy stuff!

Use your power? Get your message across? :lol

What the fuck? He's not trying to send a message dumbass. All he did was answer a simple question in a non-flammatory matter. What the hell is wrong with you?

[DPG21920]

Hypocrites are better than atheists. Gotcha :tu



Thank you!

Nope. But the fact of the matter is, in America, the vast majority of people deal with "Politically Correct" people all the time. They are told what to do, what to think and how to act. People are more than able to shake up the establishment, but in order to be affective or taken seriously, the timing must be right and the message must be delivered in an effective matter.

[vy65]

Is it not a forum on the internet?

Absolutely. What's your point? The internet isn't austere, regal, or prestigious enough for a discussion on religion? What is?

Is Manu Ginobili not entitled to express Manu Ginobili's religious beliefs at www.manu20.com?

[DPG21920]

Use your power? Get your message across? :lol

What the fuck? He's not trying to send a message dumbass. All he did was answer a simple question in a non-flammatory matter. What the hell is wrong with you?

Religion is non-INFLAMMATORY?

[baseline bum]

For the third time, is David Robinson full of shit for saying he supports the war when the majority of people in this country are against it? Was he stupid to speak his mind on an inflammatory issue while expressing a contrarian view?

[DPG21920]

This is hilarious. He's applying a presidential election philosophy to a manu forum.

This is so funny, he is totally taking a topic that bridges the gap between all peoples and applying it to a relevant topic.

[tp2021]

Nope. But the fact of the matter is, in America, the vast majority of people deal with "Politically Correct" people all the time. They are told what to do, what to think and how to act.
What exactly are you trying to tell us?



People are more than able to shake up the establishment, but in order to be affective or taken seriously, the timing must be right and the message must be delivered in an effective matter.

Do you really think by answering a fan's question, he was trying to "shake up the establishment"?

[DPG21920]

For the third time, is David Robinson full of shit for saying he supports the war when the majority of people in this country are against it? Was he stupid to speak his mind on an inflammatory issue while expressing a contrarian view?

No he is not full of shit. But what is the difference between Josh Howard getting shit for speaking out against the war in Iraq and D-Rob not catching flack? Perception and credibility. D-Rob severed and Howard did not. D-Rob never said he smoked weed, Howard did. Does that make Howard's opinion any less valid? (I am not saying he was right or wrong)

[tp2021]

Religion is non-INFLAMMATORY?

Not to you, apparently.

[DPG21920]

What exactly are ou trying to tell us?




Do you really think by answering a fan's question, he was trying to "shake up the establishment"?

I do not know what "ou" is trying to tell us. I think he knows full well that saying I do not believe in God when asked a question that implies he does will cause some stir.

[baseline bum]

No he is not full of shit. But what is the difference between Josh Howard getting shit for speaking out against the war in Iraq and D-Rob not catching flack? Perception and credibility. D-Rob severed and Howard did not. D-Rob never said he smoked weed, Howard did. Does that make Howard's opinion any less valid? (I am not saying he was right or wrong)

DRob severed? What did he sever? His arm got cut off or something?

[vy65]

I do not know what "ou" is trying to tell us. I think he knows full well that saying I do not believe in God when asked a question that implies he does will cause some stir.

Why is causing a stir a bad thing?

[DPG21920]

Not to you, apparently.

Look at most of the world's wars (past and present) and tell me religion is not a hot topic.

[DPG21920]

Why is causing a stir a bad thing?

It is not. Being misguided or being ineffective in sending a message is a bad thing. Many people tried to stop slavery. But it took the right person(s) at the right time and the right place to get it done.

[baseline bum]

Look at most of the world's wars (past and present) and tell me religion is not a hot topic.

So then it's a good thing when someone comes out and says he doesn't believe an idea that's been used to kill infidels since the beginning of time.

[tp2021]

I do not know what "ou" is trying to tell us. I think he knows full well that saying I do not believe in God when asked a question that implies he does will cause some stir.

Ok grammatical errors aside, should he lie instead, or just dodge the question? Maybe he is just being honest with his fans. Do you want atheists that become admired to never say that they are atheists?

[DPG21920]

DRob severed? What did he sever? His arm got cut off or something?

My mistake. Served.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

The premise of having a forum such as his is to let his opinions be heard/read, whether they disagree with yours or not.

[vy65]

Look at most of the world's wars (past and present) and tell me religion is not a hot topic.

Are you seriously equating "I am not a believer" with the Israeli-Palestine conflict (which probably has as much to do with land, water rights, and supposed historic ethnic hatred as it does with religion). Or the Bosnian crisis (which had alot to do with with the fall of the Soviet Union and ethnic hostilities). Or the 100 years war for that matter? Just because both center on religion doesn't mean Texas is going to attack North Dakota because Manu is an atheist.

[hitmanyr2k]

Religion is non-INFLAMMATORY?

Typo...

matter = manner.

Still doesn't change the idiocy of what you said. You're taking Ginobili's answer of a simple question and now suggesting that he "use his power to get his message across" :lol Ginobili isn't some preacher or politician. He's not trying to send a message lol. He answered a question on his forum without a hint of malice or disdain. You're the only one making an issue of this.

[DPG21920]

Ok grammatical errors aside, should he lie instead, or just dodge the question? Maybe he is just being honest with his fans. Do you want atheists that become admired to never say that they are atheists?

Is there a difference between saying things in a palatable way and lying? I think so. I do not want him to lie.

[DPG21920]

Typo...

matter = manner.

Still doesn't change the idiocy of what you said. You're taking Ginobili's answer of a simple question and now suggesting that he "use his power to get his message across" :lol Ginobili isn't some preacher or politician. He's not trying to send a message lol. He answered a question on his forum without a hint of malice or disdain. You're the only one making an issue of this.

Everyone on here (no matter which side you stand on) is making an issue.

[tp2021]

Is there a difference between saying things in a palatable way and lying? I think so. I do not want him to lie.

Okay then, here's a scenario: You are an atheist. Someone has just asked you about your religious beliefs. How exactly would you answer in a "palatable way"?

[DPG21920]

Are you seriously equating "I am not a believer" with the Israeli-Palestine conflict (which probably has as much to do with land, water rights, and supposed historic ethnic hatred as it does with religion). Or the Bosnian crisis (which had alot to do with with the fall of the Soviet Union and ethnic hostilities). Or the 100 years war for that matter? Just because both center on religion doesn't mean Texas is going to attack North Dakota because Manu is an atheist.

What? The point is that religion is a hot topic that can create a backlash if not handled properly no matter what you believe.

[vy65]

It is not. Being misguided or being ineffective in sending a message is a bad thing. Many people tried to stop slavery. But it took the right person(s) at the right time and the right place to get it done.

I don't think Manu was trying to promote atheist-awareness. I think he was just answering a question.

As to slavery, it took a president in the midst of a civil war to issue a constitutionally questionable proclamation. But to say that those who were "misguided" were "ineffective" is, again, ignorant. Are you saying that abolitionists like Frederick Douglas who was pivotal in amassing northern support was ineffective? Should he, and others, have been silent in the face of the institution of slavery because they were incapable of ending it? Should individual's like Martin Luther King, Malcom X, or others keep quiet because they don't have their hands on the levers of power?

[DPG21920]

Okay then, here's a scenario: You are an atheist. Someone has just asked you about your religious beliefs. How exactly would you answer in a "palatable way"?

What is wa? If someone asked me (and I am not a public figure) I would respond in a matter in which did not discredit their beliefs. If I was a public figure, I would only answer questions that pertain to fans and not my personal belief systems. If I was asked by a friend or family member I would tell them that I do not believe but understand how they might considering all the wonderful things that happen on a daily basis.

[DPG21920]

I don't think Manu was trying to promote atheist-awareness. I think he was just answering a question.

As to slavery, it took a president in the midst of a civil war to issue a constitutionally questionable proclamation. But to say that those who were "misguided" were "ineffective" is, again, ignorant. Are you saying that abolitionists like Frederick Douglas who was pivotal in amassing northern support was ineffective? Should he, and others, have been silent in the face of the institution of slavery because they were incapable of ending it? Should individual's like Martin Luther King, Malcom X, or others keep quiet because they don't have their hands on the levers of power?

No, they all had their place in time. They all struck blows to the rock of human injustice and masterfully and proudly served the rights of all peoples. Manu is not doing anything of the sort (nor did I say he was trying to), he is just speaking on a subject that he personally believes in what I believe to be an inappropriate manner. There is no good that can come from this. All the people that you listed inspired good.

[vy65]

What? The point is that religion is a hot topic that can create a backlash if not handled properly no matter what you believe.

You're right - but there's a difference of degree. Manu saying he's not a believer seems to have incurred only your wrath. Equating that with religious conflict is - for lack of a better word - stupid.

But that's not your point - your point was that Manu should be responsible in not airing controversial viewpoints because he's in a position of public visibility?

And, on top of it all, you're view that this supposed "backlash" has been treated by the Supreme Court and declared illegal.
-- R.A.V. v. St. Paul: the court struck down a law prohibiting the burning of crosses on minorities lawns because it silenced a particular (racist) viewpoint.
-- Texas v. Johnson: the court indicated that a law prohibiting flag-burning would be unconstitutional--although some people would take offense at such an act, it was protected "pure speech."
-- U.S. v. Cohen: wearing a jacket saying "Fuck the Draft" to a courthouse was consitutionally protected -- even though it might incur the backlash of other people because it touched on a 'hot topic' -- the Vietnam War then taking place.

Your position is, essentially, untenable if not downright retarded.

[tp2021]

What is wa? If someone asked me (and I am not a public figure) I would respond in a matter in which did not discredit their beliefs.What did Manu say that discredited anyone's beliefs?


If I was a public figure, I would only answer questions that pertain to fans and not my personal belief systems.So if they asked, you would avoid it? You should be in politics.

[JamStone]

lmao

This guy is putting in a lot of work just so he won't have to admit he is wrong for criticizing Manu's comments.

Just because religion is a "hot" topic, it doesn't mean it's an inflammatory topic. NOt the same thing. Most grown adults can have a civilized and cordial discussion about religion even if they have different beliefs. You yourself said Manu's comments didn't bother you, so why not assume that most people are like you and can respect a man's personal beliefs?

Also, why do you keep going back to "America" and American standards and American values when the questions and answers were in Spanish and most likely targeted to his Argentine fans?

All of the examples you use don't apply to Manu or his comments.

An internet website specifically about Manu is actually one of the more appropriate places for Manu to express a comment like this. He's speaking directly to his fans, and it's not a political or religious forum. If Manu was invited by a friend to attend a mass at a Christian church and was asked to give the homily, and he expressed his opinion there, then he would need a more palatable way to express his opinion. If he were at a Catholic grade school with young impressionable 5-8 year old kids and he was giving a speech on values and he expressed his non-belief of God there, that would probably be inappropriate. On a website devoted to him and in Spanish, I think that's a pretty good place for him to express an opinion like this where it wouldn't cause much of a problem at all, except for a person who is obsessed over self-righteous indignation on what is a right or wrong place to express a personal opinion on the internet.

[DPG21920]

You're right - but there's a difference of degree. Manu saying he's not a believer seems to have incurred only your wrath. Equating that with religious conflict is - for lack of a better word - stupid.

But that's not your point - your point was that Manu should be responsible in not airing controversial viewpoints because he's in a position of public visibility?

And, on top of it all, you're view that this supposed "backlash" has been treated by the Supreme Court and declared illegal.
-- R.A.V. v. St. Paul: the court struck down a law prohibiting the burning of crosses on minorities lawns because it silenced a particular (racist) viewpoint.
-- U.S. v. O'Brien: the court indicated that a law prohibiting flag-burning would be unconstitutional--although some people would take offense at such an act, it was protected "pure speech."
-- U.S. v. Cohen: wearing a jacket saying "Fuck the Draft" to a courthouse was consitutionally protected -- even though it might incur the backlash of other people because it touched on a 'hot topic' -- the Vietnam War then taking place.

Your position is, essentially, untenable if not downright retarded.

Please show me where I said it is illegal. You must of gone full retard. Religious conflict is not stupid, but I believe that people should think about what they say and when. My point is not that he should not "air" his opinions. My point is that he needs to do it in an effective manner and in a palatable way.

[tp2021]

There is no good that can come from this. All the people that you listed inspired good.

So, either you believe Manu's actions are inspiring "bad," and that makes you anti-atheist.

Or, you believe Manu's actions are inconsequential. In which case, you are ruffling feathers over nothing.

[Kori Ellis]

If someone asked me (and I am not a public figure) I would respond in a matter in which did not discredit their beliefs.

What? Since when does making a simple statement about your own beliefs discredit someone else's beliefs? He didn't say, "I don't believe in God and if you do, you are an idiot."

You are making much ado about nothing and this crazy conversation doesn't really belong in the Spurs forum.

[DPG21920]

lmao

This guy is putting in a lot of work just so he won't have to admit he is wrong for criticizing Manu's comments.

Just because religion is a "hot" topic, it doesn't mean it's an inflammatory topic. NOt the same thing. Most grown adults can have a civilized and cordial discussion about religion even if they have different beliefs. You yourself said Manu's comments didn't bother you, so why not assume that most people are like you and can respect a man's personal beliefs?

Also, why do you keep going back to "America" and American standards and American values when the questions and answers were in Spanish and most likely targeted to his Argentine fans?

All of the examples you use don't apply to Manu or his comments.

An internet website specifically about Manu is actually one of the more appropriate places for Manu to express a comment like this. He's speaking directly to his fans, and it's not a political or religious forum. If Manu was invited by a friend to attend a mass at a Christian church and was asked to give the homily, and he expressed his opinion there, then he would need a more palatable way to express his opinion. If he were at a Catholic grade school with young impressionable 5-8 year old kids and he was giving a speech on values and he expressed his non-belief of God there, that would probably be inappropriate. On a website devoted to him and in Spanish, I think that's a pretty good place for him to express an opinion like this where it wouldn't cause much of a problem at all, except for a person who is obsessed over self-righteous indignation on what is a right or wrong place to express a personal opinion on the internet.

Manu's beliefs do not bother me. It is his timing and where he chose to express those beliefs that bother me. It is not an American thing. I already said in my earlier post that he is directing a comment that assumes he believes in God towards people that widely believe in God.

[JamStone]

Timing? What about the timing of his comments? And, what's wrong with it being on a Manu Ginobili fan website?

[vy65]

Please show me where I said it is illegal. You must of gone full retard. Religious conflict is not stupid, but I believe that people should think about what they say and when. My point is not that he should not "air" his opinions. My point is that he needs to do it in an effective manner and in a palatable way.

When you said that Manu should keep his mouth shut. Those three cases (which are much more extreme, or to use your word, inflamatory, than "I'm not a believer") resulted in protecting speech even though it would provoke a backlash. Why would the court do such a thing? because the "bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment is that the expression of an idea should not be prohibited because society finds it offensive or disagreeable." If what he says provokes a backlash -- our law says good because that response to "unpopular views" will result in a debate -- like what's going on here.

That's the point that I think you're missing -- that the "intolerable" view that promotes a "backlash" is really an invitation to a public dialogue - i.e. a good thing. What's bad is when a subject gets silenced completely.

[DPG21920]

What? Since when does making a simple statement about your own beliefs discredit someone else's beliefs? He didn't say, "I don't believe in God and if you do, you are an idiot."

You are making much ado about nothing and this crazy conversation doesn't really belong in the Spurs forum.

I did not say Manu discredited people's beliefs. I said if I was asked a question, I would make sure not to discredit beliefs. That's all. I would be extra sensitive to the subject, knowing it is highly emotional and be sure to be honest without being disrespectful. I in no way implied that Manu was disrespectful or discrediting. I just think he was misplaced in discussing such matters with people who do not need to know such personal things.

[carina_gino20]

My point is that he needs to do it in an effective manner and in a palatable way.

By saying effective, you're implying that he has an agenda, which doesn't seem to be the case. You talked about him discussing personal questions that nobody needed to know. Apparently, a fan needed to know and I'm sure many are curious. Manu was simply answering a question. He did not in any way discredit their own beliefs; he was not disrespectful.

How would you say what he said in a palatable way?

[Kori Ellis]

Timing? What about the timing of his comments? And, what's wrong with it being on a Manu Ginobili fan website?

And it's not just a Manu Ginobili fan website. It's Manu's own website. He's allowed to be on his own website. :lol

[DPG21920]

When you said that Manu should keep his mouth shut. Those three cases (which are much more extreme, or to use your word, inflamatory, than "I'm not a believer") resulted in protecting speech even though it would provoke a backlash. Why would the court do such a thing? because the "bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment is that the expression of an idea should not be prohibited because society finds it offensive or disagreeable." If what he says provokes a backlash -- our law says good because that response to "unpopular views" will result in a debate -- like what's going on here.

That's the point that I think you're missing -- that the "intolerable" view that promotes a "backlash" is really an invitation to a public dialogue - i.e. a good thing. What's bad is when a subject gets silenced completely.

I agree. But there is a difference in inviting a debate on such matters in such an informal way versus doing it because you are trying to influence the greater good of society.

[tp2021]

I just think he was misplaced in discussing such matters with people who do not need to know such personal things.

They are his fans, and they asked him. It wasn't a discussion, it was a question which he answered. If it was too personal, he wouldn't have answered it.

Projecting is a bad thing.

[DPG21920]

So why is it that no one knows Tim Duncan's official stance on religion?

[DPG21920]

By saying effective, you're implying that he has an agenda, which doesn't seem to be the case. You talked about him discussing personal questions that nobody needed to know. Apparently, a fan needed to know and I'm sure many are curious. Manu was simply answering a question. He did not in any way discredit their own beliefs; he was not disrespectful.

How would you say what he said in a palatable way?

Where did I say he was disrespectful? I said he brought up a serious topic that will throw more than me for a loop considering the question was implied that he just "believed".

I already said how I would answer it. I would say that many people have beliefs and are entitled to them. I personally do not believe in God and that in no way means that I am right and you are wrong.

[carina_gino20]

I already said in my earlier post that he is directing a comment that assumes he believes in God towards people that widely believe in God.

Maybe the poster assumed he did. He clarified that he didn't. I also believe in God, so that probably makes two of us there (me and the original poster). How do you know that the rest of the people in his forum widely believe in God?

[Kori Ellis]

So why is it that no one knows Tim Duncan's official stance on religion?

Because it's Tim's choice not to talk about it. Just like it's David Robinson's choice to talk about it a lot. And it's Manu Ginobili's choice to answer a simple question and not elaborate.

Get it?

[timaios]

Wow...
All that in a basket forum !
Freedom is nice... but only if you think like me !

That is just great.

Different religions = wars all over the world... even on a sports forum.

Sick !

[tp2021]

So why is it that no one knows Tim Duncan's official stance on religion?

Changing the subject maybe?

Nobody knows because he chose to keep it to himself.
Just like Manu chose to be honest to himself and to his fans.

[vy65]

I agree. But there is a difference in inviting a debate on such matters in such an informal way versus doing it because you are trying to influence the greater good of society.

I don't think there's a difference -- either way, you're still facilitating a discussion which, in the end, is really what we we want. I don't know why motives would matter, or, any less than that, how you, as DPG21920 would know Manu's motives.

Regardless, if you agree, then what's your problem? Manu didn't discredit anyone else's belief systems in saying what he said, right? But, even if he did -- that'd be good because it would result in debate -- right? We agreed on that point.

Regardless, he simply expressed his own views on his website. If he doesn't have a right to speak to his personal issues though a medium (in this case, a website), uniquely capable of letting people get to know him beyond his role as a San Antonio Spur, when else would he be able to speak?

[Obstructed_View]

I do not even vote, ever. I am so disgusted how people are so concerned with "parties" that they do not even know where they stand. And I am an extremely educated person, at least by today's standards.

:lmao

[carina_gino20]

Where did I say he was disrespectful? I said he brought up a serious topic that will throw more than me for a loop considering the question was implied that he just "believed".

I already said how I would answer it. I would say that many people have beliefs and are entitled to them. I personally do not believe in God and that in no way means that I am right and you are wrong.

By saying in your other post that you would say it in a manner that does not discredit the fans' beliefs, it seemed to me that you were suggesting that that's what Manu was doing.

Your earlier post was not a direct quote, so I wanted clarify.

Now that you have, you have just said in more than ten words what Manu said in three.

[DPG21920]

Because it's Tim's choice not to talk about it. Just like it's David Robinson's choice to talk about it a lot. And it's Manu Ginobili's choice to answer a simple question and not elaborate.

Get it?

Don't talk to me like I am an idiot. I get a lot of things and understand where people are coming from. Many people choose not to discuss these things because they are highly personal matters and highly controversial regardless of if that is right or wrong. Fact of the matter is that religion (even though everyone has the right to believe in anything they want) is a sensitive subject matter. I feel that answering a question (even though HE WAS NOT DISRESPECTFUL) so casually on a forum is just opening the doors to negative publicity, whether or not that is right or wrong. This is only because the perceptions of most do not agree with not believing. Robinson is no better than Manu, it is just that people can deal with preaching I believe more so than I do not.

[Newton]

Fuck anyone for judging Hitler or fuck anyone for judging KKK members right? They are just telling people what they think: all the time and everywhere

Sorry, Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law). You lost this thread pages ago.

[DPG21920]

By saying in your other post that you would say it in a manner that does not discredit the fans' beliefs, it seemed to me that you were suggesting that that's what Manu was doing.

Your earlier post was not a direct quote, so I wanted clarify.

Now that you have, you have just said in more than ten words what Manu said in three.

This I do not get. I do believe in God, personally. I was just saying how I would say something if I did not.

[JamStone]

Satan thinks this is comical.

Not that I believe in satan, but if I did, I wouldn't be saying I'm right and you're wrong if you don't believe in satan.

Just for clarification.

[DPG21920]

:lmao

Why is me deciding not to vote funny?

[Kori Ellis]

Don't talk to me like I am an idiot.

Then don't ask idiotic questions.

[DPG21920]

Satan thinks this is comical.

Not that I believe in satan, but if I did, I wouldn't be saying I'm right and you're wrong if you don't believe in satan.

Just for clarification.

Very un-clever.

[carina_gino20]

I can't believe we have 7 pages of this now, and only a translation for one question. :lol


opening the doors to negative publicity...

Most of you probably wouldn't have even known of it if I or any of the posters there had not posted it here. He was just answering a question. Why can't you let it go?

[Obstructed_View]

It's just that people that are Christians are easier to accept and deal with, even if you don't agree, than people that aren't Christians. It's much easier not to judge someone who's a Christian than it is to judge someone who isn't.

...

In other words, Christians can't mind their own business, right? Some busybody asks Manu about religion, he answers honestly, and another busybody suddenly starts comparing him to Josh Howard, Hitler and the KKK.

psst: If you think people are talking to you like you're an idiot, that may be your first good instinct in this thread.

[DPG21920]

Then don't ask idiotic questions.

How is that an idiotic question? Asking how come some people do not air their beliefs is an idiotic question?

[JamStone]

psst: If you think people are talking to you like you're an idiot, that may be your first good instinct in this thread.

FTW

[Obstructed_View]

Why is me deciding not vote funny?

I don't know. Must be your extreme education showing.

[Kori Ellis]

How is that an idiotic question? Asking how come some people do not air their beliefs is an idiotic question?

Yes, because apparently you already knew the obvious answer (that some people choose not to).

[carina_gino20]

This I do not get. I do believe in God, personally. I was just saying how I would say something if I did not.

I know that you believe. What I meant was that your original answer was something like "I would say in such a way...", and not the actual words that you would say if you were in his position.

[JamStone]

Someone needs to make a bet on how many points Kobe scored against Bruce Bowen the year Bowen won DPOY.

[DPG21920]

It's just that people that are Christians are easier to accept and deal with, even if you don't agree, than people that aren't Christians. It's much easier not to judge someone who's a Christian than it is to judge someone who isn't.

...

In other words, Christians can't mind their own business, right? Some busybody asks Manu about religion, he answers honestly, and another busybody suddenly starts comparing him to Josh Howard, Hitler and the KKK.

psst: If you think people are talking to you like you're an idiot, that may be your first good instinct in this thread.

I did not compare Manu to them. I actually said he is nothing like them. All I said is that everyone has free reign to express their beliefs, but if they want to be taken seriously they should do it in a palatable way.

[tp2021]

Don't talk to me like I am an idiot. DId she? Maybe her definition of palatable isn't compatible with your definition.


I get a lot of things and understand where people are coming from. Hence all the agreement and misunderstanding.


Many people choose not to discuss these things because they are highly personal matters and highly controversial regardless of if that is right or wrong.Manu in this case, is not one of those people.


Fact of the matter is that religion (even though everyone has the right to believe in anything they want) is a sensitive subject matter. Was Manu insensitive?


I feel that answering a question (even though HE WAS NOT DISRESPECTFUL) so casually on a forum is just opening the doors to negative publicity, From you.


whether or not that is right or wrong. Wrong.


This is only because the perceptions of most do not agree with not believing. So you should only say what you believe if your audience believes in the same things.


Robinson is no better than Manu, it is just that people can deal with preaching I believe more so than I do not. :wtf

[Kori Ellis]

Anyway, now that DPG has thoroughly ruined a topic that could have just been interesting answers from Manu about a variety of things, can we get back on track?

Anyone who wants to express their right to talk about or not talk about their religion can do it in the Political forum. Thanks.

[timvp]

What have I done?

:depressed

[DPG21920]

Yes, because apparently you already knew the obvious answer (that some people choose not to).

I wanted to see why some people thought "stars" kept these things to themselves. I am sure many people have inquired about Duncan's beliefs.

[Obstructed_View]

I did not compare Manu to them. I actually said he is nothing like them. All I said is that everyone has free reign to express their beliefs, but if they want to be taken seriously they should do it in a palatable way.

Last word from me: One does not define "palatable" for another, no matter how one tries.

So, new thread for translation: All in favor?

[tp2021]

Last word from me: One does not define "palatable" for another, no matter how one tries.

So, new thread for translation: All in favor?

Only if it's done in a palatable way.

[DPG21920]

Well Manu is entitled to his opinion, but I would be shocked if he does not believe in god.


That is a loose translation and he could be joking or it could be taken out of context. Manu is smart and I highly doubt even if he did not believe that he would post it for the world to read. Who is he Josh Howard?

This is what all this stemmed from. All I said is that I would be shocked if he just flat came out and said this in direct context. I did not say he was right nor wrong. But Kori likes to point fingers at me for having to defend myself (whether she agrees or not) when this turned into people attacking me and taking things out of context.

[JamStone]

Only if it's done in a palatable way.

There's no right or wrong way. I respect everyone's right to translate.

[carina_gino20]

Only if it's done in a palatable way.

:lmao Remember that, urunobili. Seriously though, I hope you get well so you can open a clutter-free thread for the translation of this piece.

[Newton]

This is only because the perceptions of most do not agree with not believing. Robinson is no better than Manu, it is just that people can deal with preaching I believe more so than I do not.

No, you can deal with preaching more than others can. Speak for yourself you dimwitted ass.

By your logic, someone should muzzle themselves when asked a direct question because it may not fall in line with the "perceptions of most"?

I'll borrow an extreme metaphorical/logical leap from your book: Once the "perceptions of most" were that blacks should not be allowed to drink from the same water fountains as white people. Your logic and your argument are complete shit.

[DPG21920]

I don't know. Must be your extreme education showing.

Ya, that is hilarious. Mock my years of trying to educate myself because I do not vote. Your a dick.

[Kori Ellis]

But Kori likes to point fingers at me for having to defend myself (whether she agrees or not) when this turned into people attacking me and taking things out of context.

I can almost hear you crying through my computer screen.

[Kori Ellis]

Ya, that is hilarious. Mock my years of trying to educate myself because I do not vote. Your a dick.

Classic.

[timvp]

This thread is back alive . . .

[DPG21920]

Classic.

An honest typo at 4:30 a.m. Wow that is classic. Want to hear Shoog's take on the matter.

To clarify all the bull shit. All I was trying to say is that I am surprised a man of Manu's stature (both in this country and his own), that is coached on how to be politically correct and speak to reporters, fans and other media would answer so bluntly a question about such a serious matter. That is all. No judgment on his beliefs, no beef with how he answered and no problems with being honest. All I said is I think there is a way to be honest and discrete with such widely regarded sensitive material.

[timvp]

An honest typo at 4:30 a.m. Wow that is classic.Restarting a fight probably isn't the best use of this reopened thread.

[mookie2001]

robinson is no better than manu, except he was a much better basketball player, an american, and a man of god, manu on the other hand is shitty washed up twat from argentina whos down with lucifer

[Whisky Dog]

The "no god" people are getting just as vicious as the religious nuts.

Ok, maybe not quite that close yet.

[td4mvp21]

I don't see why Manu not believing in God is a big deal. That doesn't effect what he does on and off the court for the Spurs and the way us fans look up to him. He's still a damn good player and a good person either way. I respect him for being honest when asked the question. I think personal beliefs are just that-personal- and a lot of players probably wouldn't comment on their religious beliefs. Kudos to Manu for saying what he believes.

[Cherry]

Manu was agnostic all his life and you people know that today??? :lol

[DPG21920]

I do not think Manu is a bad person at all. I would much rather have a guy that says he does not believe in God but acts like a caring, loving person than someone who says they believe but then are the antithesis of what God stands for.

[DPG21920]

I don't see why Manu not believing in God is a big deal. That doesn't effect what he does on and off the court for the Spurs and the way us fans look up to him. He's still a damn good player and a good person either way. I respect him for being honest when asked the question. I think personal beliefs are just that-personal- and a lot of players probably wouldn't comment on their religious beliefs. Kudos to Manu for saying what he believes.

It is not a big deal. All of these jack asses misconstrued what I was saying. The only thing that I thought was a big deal at all was that it was such a public answer to a sensitive subject. I just thought it COULD bring some negative attention (whether that is right or wrong) onto him.

The point you make was the point I was trying to make though. You say it will not effect they way fans look up to him. I said it might and that is all. I never said he was wrong because of his beliefs.

[DPG21920]

Restarting a fight probably isn't the best use of this reopened thread.

Not really a fight. Just a petty attempt to be funny by Kori.

[mookie2001]

Manu was agnostic all his life and you people know that today??? :lolwe dont get the bahia blanca argentinian statesman chode

[xtremesteven33]

Manu is not an atheist.....

- Ive heard him multiple times refer to "God"
-Hes also talked about praying about certain things before...


No debate needed......bad translation....

[Cherry]

we dont get the bahia blanca argentinian statesman chode

speak for youself :sucker

[timvp]

Manu is not an atheist.....

- Ive heard him multiple times refer to "God"
-Hes also talked about praying about certain things before...


No debate needed......bad translation....Link?

[timvp]

Maybe ginobili_is_god was ahead of the curve . . .

[DPG21920]

Many GinobiliIsGod was ahead of the curve . . .

What do you think of this? Now that I have clarified my position on the matter in the previous 3 posts.

[xtremesteven33]

Link?


i cant link memory.....i recall him making references to God before and his prayer comment is in the 2005 Spurs Championship DVD.

[Cherry]

Manu is not an atheist.....

- Ive heard him multiple times refer to "God"
-Hes also talked about praying about certain things before...


No debate needed......bad translation....

No, it wasn't a bad traslation. But he's agnostic, not atheist.

Not big deal.

[DPG21920]

No, it wasn't a bad traslation. But he's agnostic, not atheist.

Oh, and he still is Manu. Not big deal.

Agnostics are often compared to atheist. That is not the point though, he can believe what he wants. Are you surprised that he answered such a question so honestly and directly?

I have a couple of questions for you. Are you from Argentina and do you still live there if so? Do most Argentinians believe in God (are they Christians)? If so, do you think some of his fans will be upset if he does not believe?

[ChumpDumper]

The best judge of whether Manu should say these things or not is Manu. If that's what he said, he knows what he's doing.

[timvp]

What do you think of this? Now that I have clarified my position on the matter in the previous 3 posts.I haven't read the thread. I couldn't care less what Manu believes. He could be in a Satanic cult and drink goat's blood before games for all I care. As long as he does his best to help the Spurs win, he can do whatever he wants.

[DPG21920]

The best judge of whether Manu should say these things or not is Manu. If that's what he said, he knows what he's doing.

Fair enough. But the same can be said about Josh Howard and look at what happened there. That was the only point I was trying to make. I thought that answering such questions in this fashion could cause the same reaction (maybe not on a national level because YouTube is very popular vs Manu's forum) due to the subject matter.

[xtremesteven33]

If Manu was an Agnostic he wouldnt have said "I DO NOT BELIEVE"

An Agnostic would say "Im not sure" or "I dont know"

[DPG21920]

I haven't read the thread. I couldn't care less what Manu believes. He could be in a Satanic cult and drink goat's blood before games for all I care. As long as he does his best to help the Spurs win, he can do whatever he wants.

No one was (at least I was not) questioning his beliefs. The question was whether or not this subject (religion) should be talked about in a forum for all to see. I could care less about what he actually believes, I care more about how people act versus what they say they believe.

[ChumpDumper]

Fair enough. But the same can be said about Josh Howard and look at what happened there.What happened to him? Last I checked, he's still being paid millions to play a child's game.

[EJFischer]

Sorry about that.


As for the rest of the thread, it's ridiculous that it's exploding into an argument with DPG21920.

As of Manu's response, I know that I have heard him say, "Thank God..." before, so it's weird that he said he doesn't believe.

I don't really think it is contradictory. I'm an staunch atheist, but I still say "oh my god" when I'm surprised, or "goddamnit" when I'm frustrated. It's just idiomatic usage. I don't even think about it when I do it. I don't have to believe in blessings to reflexively say "bless you" when someone sneezes.

[timvp]

No one was (at least I was not) questioning his beliefs. The question was whether or not this subject (religion) should be talked about in a forum for all to see. I could care less about what he actually believes, I care more about how people act versus what they say they believe.Religion isn't that taboo of a subject anymore. Saying you don't believe in God won't cause a ripple. You can't compare that to Howard saying he doesn't believe in the National Anthem because he's black.

The number of people in the US who go to church diminishes each year. As do the number of people who claim to believe in God. Publicly stating your religious beliefs is about as controversial as saying who you are going to vote for.

[exstatic]

This thread SO needs a link in the 'Best of ST meltdowns'.
:lol

[DPG21920]

Religion isn't that taboo of a subject anymore. Saying you don't believe in God won't cause a ripple. You can't compare that to Howard saying he doesn't believe in the National Anthem because he's black.

The number of people in the US who go to church diminishes each year. As do the number of people who claim to believe in God. Publicly stating your religious beliefs is about as controversial as saying who you are going to vote for.

Maybe that is why my opinion differed so greatly from everyone's. I just think that religion is still taken very seriously (look at the presidential debate going on about Obama's religion) all over the WORLD, not just the USA like with Howard's comments. Manu is a world star so I thought it might cause some controversy.

I also think that even though you are right about people leaving the church, you are wrong with regards to the reason. I think people are leaving because they are becoming more independent and "modernized". Younger people find their own relationship with God and do not feel that you need to go to church in order to be a good citizen. That does not mean they believe any less or that it is less taboo imo.

[DPG21920]

What happened to him? Last I checked, he's still being paid millions to play a child's game.

He was plastered across many national publications and brought negative attention to himself and his team. In the long-run, maybe nothing, but to act like no one noticed is just wrong.

[DPG21920]

This thread SO needs a link in the 'Best of ST meltdowns'.
:lol

Not even close to a meltdown! This was a debate (where people greatly misconstrued my point). I did not threaten to "retire" or break down into stories about my childhood...

[Kriz-Maxima]

So if he were a Christian he should say "I believe in Christ but that doesnt mean I'm right or you are wrong. I respect all believes"?

[ChumpDumper]

He was plastered across many national publications and brought negative attention to himself and his team. In the long-run, maybe nothing, but to act like no one noticed is just wrong.So people noticed.

So what?

[DPG21920]

So people noticed.

So what?

So you think that negative publicity is no big deal? Then why do people make such a big deal about the Spurs staying out of trouble and out of the media?

[DPG21920]

So if he were a Christian he should say "I believe in Christ but that doesnt mean I'm right or you are wrong. I respect all believes"?

Yes. That is how I talk to people and I have a lot of friends that are not Christians. We discuss things like this and get along just fine. I was just commenting on the old adage "you don't discuss politics or religion over dinner" type deal. I have no beef with what he said or how he said it though. I just thought it was little odd to see such direct honesty to fans on a subject that I thought was sensitive. Sometimes that refreshing honesty gets famous people in trouble and opens the doors to more privacy invasion and judgments.

[Cherry]

Agnostics are often compared to atheist. That is not the point though, he can believe what he wants. Are you surprised that he answered such a question so honestly and directly?

No, because he answered this questions the same way before.


I have a couple of questions for you. Are you from Argentina and do you still live there if so? Do most Argentinians believe in God (are they Christians)? If so, do you think some of his fans will be upset if he does not believe?

I think the 90% believe in God (78% are Christians) but we don't go to the church so often like 20 years ago and we don't take it too seriously to the point to be upset if someone does not believe. Is not surprising.

[ChumpDumper]

So you think that negative publicity is no big deal?Judging from Howard's salary and the Mavs' season ticket sales, I'd have to say it didn't matter one bit.


Then why do people make such a big deal about the Spurs staying out of trouble and out of the media?It's noteworthy, but the bottom line is they are still in San Antonio because they won a couple of championships.

[lurker23]

Does anybody know if this MySpace page is legitimately made by Manu, or is it something created by a fan?

http://www.myspace.com/emanuelginobili


Just curious. It lists his religion as Catholic.

[Mister Sinister]

Maybe that is why my opinion differed so greatly from everyone's. I just think that religion is still taken very seriously (look at the presidential debate going on about Obama's religion) all over the WORLD, not just the USA like with Howard's comments. Manu is a world star so I thought it might cause some controversy.
You know, it's funny. I had a well-constructed response to your general point of view on this subject about a minute ago, and then I read through the entirety of the thread. The inane nature of your point of view, your manner of expressing it, and your seeming inability to see why people are giving you shit for it, are so intense, so profound in their ability to crush a person's soul, that I am glad mine is in a cold storage unit in my basement.

I realize I'm repeating the thread here, but it doesn't seem to have gotten through, so...eh. There is a world, no, a *universe* of difference between saying "I don't believe", "I'm an atheist," or "I'm an agnostiic"; and pushing that view or belief (or lack thereof) up, down, in, or around the orifice or orifices of one or multiple people. You're overreacting, and you dicked your "argument", such as it was, when you Godwin'd it. Stop it, just stop it.

[DPG21920]

Judging from Howard's salary and the Mavs' season ticket sales, I'd have to say it didn't matter one bit.

It's noteworthy, but the bottom line is they are still in San Antonio because they won a couple of championships.

I was just speaking from a PR point of view. To say that just because he makes a lot of money that it does not matter is just dismissive. Maybe he offends fans, who knows? Maybe he loses an endorsement deal? I do not know. Maybe nothing happens. I just thought it was noteworthy.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Yes. That is how I talk to people and I have a lot of friends that are not Christians. We discuss things like this and get along just fine. I was just commenting on the old adage "you don't discuss politics or religion over dinner" type deal. I have no beef with what he said or how he said it though. I just thought it was little odd to see such direct honesty to fans on a subject that I thought was sensitive. Sometimes that refreshing honesty gets famous people in trouble and opens the doors to more privacy invasion and judgments.

So when someone asks you what you believe saying "I'm a christian" is somehow being disrespectful?

I saw nothing wrong with what Manu said,and most certainly nothing disrespectful. He didn't criticize people that believed different from him, he simply honestly answered a question a fan asked in his site.

[Kriz-Maxima]

I was just speaking from a PR point of view. To say that just because he makes a lot of money that it does not matter is just dismissive. Maybe he offends fans, who knows? Maybe he loses an endorsement deal? I do not know. Maybe nothing happens. I just thought it was noteworthy.


Howard is not a good example, Howard said i dont believe this "bullshit". Manu did not.

[Mister Sinister]

I was just speaking from a PR point of view. To say that just because he makes a lot of money that it does not matter is just dismissive. Maybe he offends fans, who knows? Maybe he loses an endorsement deal? I do not know. Maybe nothing happens. I just thought it was noteworthy.
You know, you remind me of the babe...wait, no, wrong train of thought.

You remind me of a guy I met when I went to Eastern Illinois University for a semester. Good guy overall, but he had this *annoying* tendency to overanalyze damn near everything, so that damn near everything degenerated into philosophical debates of some nature or another. Now, at least on a face-to-face, person-to-person (or person-to-person-to-person as the case sometimes was), that gets annoying really fast. Unless it's 3 AM. But that's just us.

[DPG21920]

You know, it's funny. I had a well-constructed response to your general point of view on this subject about a minute ago, and then I read through the entirety of the thread. The inane nature of your point of view, your manner of expressing it, and your seeming inability to see why people are giving you shit for it, are so intense, so profound in their ability to crush a person's soul, that I am glad mine is in a cold storage unit in my basement.

I realize I'm repeating the thread here, but it doesn't seem to have gotten through, so...eh. There is a world, no, a *universe* of difference between saying "I don't believe", "I'm an atheist," or "I'm an agnostiic"; and pushing that view or belief (or lack thereof) up, down, in, or around the orifice or orifices of one or multiple people. You're overreacting, and you dicked your "argument", such as it was, when you Godwin'd it. Stop it, just stop it.

It is called a discussion, if you do not like it, move along. People jumped on me because they thought I was judging, now that I clarified what I was saying it is more than reasonable. It may not be 100% correct, but it is my take on the matter. The only reason that things got so "wild" was because I was having to clarify and defend attacks against me on things I did not say.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIS PERSONAL BELIEFS. I DO NOT CARE. ALL I SAID WAS THAT I THOUGHT THE SUBJECT WAS SENSITIVE AND THAT I WAS SURPRISED HE GAVE SUCH AN HONEST ANSWER. You keep overreacting and making it into something that is about a whole other issue. Just because I had to go to an extreme to make a point about something that was not even my point of view does not mean "I lost". Sometimes people use extremes to make a point, it does not invalidate an argument (100% of the time) just because wikipedia says something.

[td4mvp21]

Fair enough. But the same can be said about Josh Howard and look at what happened there. That was the only point I was trying to make. I thought that answering such questions in this fashion could cause the same reaction (maybe not on a national level because YouTube is very popular vs Manu's forum) due to the subject matter.

See, not believing in God shouldn't be classified as controversial. It's a way to live life just like believing in God is a way to live life. Nothing controversial about it. Josh Howard's statement ( the one about smoking weed) was controversial.

[DPG21920]

So when someone asks you what you believe saying "I'm a christian" is somehow being disrespectful?

I saw nothing wrong with what Manu said,and most certainly nothing disrespectful. He didn't criticize people that believed different from him, he simply honestly answered a question a fan asked in his site.

Please show me where I said it was disrespectful. I have repeatedly said I have NO PROBLEM with what he said, his beliefs or how he said it. It was not disrespectful, rude or wrong. I SAW NOTHING WRONG with what Manu said. I just saw an opportunity that some nuts (because there is a lot of religious nuts) might use it to take shots at him. I said I was surprised he opened himself up to that.

[Mister Sinister]

It is called a discussion, if you do not like it, move along. People jumped on me because they thought I was judging, now that I clarified what I was saying it is more than reasonable. It may not be 100% correct, but it is my take on the matter. The only reason that things got so "wild" was because I was having to clarify and defend attacks against me on things I did not say.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HIS PERSONAL BELIEFS. I DO NOT CARE. ALL I SAID WAS THAT I THOUGHT THE SUBJECT WAS SENSITIVE AND THAT I WAS SURPRISED HE GAVE SUCH AN HONEST ANSWER. You keep overreacting and making it into something that is about a whole other issue. Just because I had to go to an extreme to make a point about something that was not even my point of view does not mean "I lost". Sometimes people use extremes to make a point, it does not invalidate an argument (100% of the time) just because wikipedia says something.
Ok, I'm assuming you mean "you" in the plural sense, because that was my first post in the thread. I think. Whatever.
Using extremes to make a point does not *always* invalidate an argument, but using the Godwin extreme, more often than not, does, because that's a pretty damn high bar to set. Also, I *think*, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I *think* the term Godwin's Law predates Wikipedia.

[ChumpDumper]

I was just speaking from a PR point of view.Well, why does PR ultimately exist? To make sure the company is making money.


To say that just because he makes a lot of money that it does not matter is just dismissive.It certainly is dismissive. It's also true.


Maybe he offends fans, who knows?That can be quantified.


Maybe he loses an endorsement deal?Maybe, but I think he's made enough money to keep him high for the rest of his life.


I do not know. Maybe nothing happens. I just thought it was noteworthy.If Manu's career needs a boost, he could just rape someone.

[DPG21920]

You know, you remind me of the babe...wait, no, wrong train of thought.

You remind me of a guy I met when I went to Eastern Illinois University for a semester. Good guy overall, but he had this *annoying* tendency to overanalyze damn near everything, so that damn near everything degenerated into philosophical debates of some nature or another. Now, at least on a face-to-face, person-to-person (or person-to-person-to-person as the case sometimes was), that gets annoying really fast. Unless it's 3 AM. But that's just us.

I do analyze things. But the only reason this turned into what it did was because it is such a sensitive subject (to believers and non-believers). The atheist on this board starting attacking me because they thought I meant he should believe or shut his mouth. That was not the point of what I said at all. But the reactions proved my point that religion is a tough subject to discuss and you must be careful how you say things or they can get wildly misconstrued as they did in my case.

[hitmanyr2k]

He was plastered across many national publications and brought negative attention to himself and his team. In the long-run, maybe nothing, but to act like no one noticed is just wrong.

Use common sense and ask yourself why Howard was plastered all over the news. "I don't celebrate this shit...I'm black". Does that ring a bell? Ginobili's comments about his beliefs are nowhere near that inflammatory.

[Mister Sinister]

I do analyze things. But the only reason this turned into what it did was because it is such a sensitive subject (to believers and non-believers). The atheist on this board starting attacking me because they thought I meant he should believe or shut his mouth. That was not the point of what I said at all. But the reactions proved my point that religion is a tough subject to discuss and you must be careful how you say things or they can get wildly misconstrued as they did in my case.
Something being a sensitive subject by nature, doesn't mean that every comment about it will get the same level of reaction, positive or negative. I would say that I disagree with your argument that the thread is what it is because of the nature of the subject. At least, not entirely.

[DPG21920]

See, not believing in God shouldn't be classified as controversial. It's a way to live life just like believing in God is a way to live life. Nothing controversial about it. Josh Howard's statement ( the one about smoking weed) was controversial.

You are 100% correct. It should not be classified as controversial. But religion in general is. Even amongst believers. The "believers" argue with each other (all of the different divisions of Christianity) and with other faiths. Talking about religion is taboo though to a certain degree which is why I was so surprised. The questions went from "whats your favorite color" to "I do not believe in God". Maybe I am over stating how "taboo" it is, but that is all I was saying.

[timvp]

Dogg Pound Gangsta, would you rather Manu be in a Satanic cult and have avoided the question or be atheist and answer the question as he did? Pick one.

Thanks.

:stirpot:

[DPG21920]

Use common sense and ask yourself why Howard was plastered all over the news. "I don't celebrate this shit...I'm black". Does that ring a bell? Ginobili's comments about his beliefs are nowhere near that inflammatory.

I am using common sense. It is called using parallels. Josh Howard is a famous person, so is Manu. They both play in the NBA. They both discussed sensitive subjects on public forums. They both opened themselves up. Just because one may be "worse" than the other does not mean they have nothing in common.

[Mister Sinister]

Dogg Pound Gangsta, would you rather Manu be in a Satanic cult and have avoided the question or be atheist and answer the question as he did? Pick one.

Thanks.

:stirpot:
You almost owed me a new soda. Almost.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Please show me where I said it was disrespectful. I have repeatedly said I have NO PROBLEM with what he said, his beliefs or how he said it. It was not disrespectful, rude or wrong. I SAW NOTHING WRONG with what Manu said. I just saw an opportunity that some nuts (because there is a lot of religious nuts) might use it to take shots at him. I said I was surprised he opened himself up to that.

Then why should he follow his " I'm not a believer" with " that doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong. I respect all religions"?

[Mister Sinister]

I am using common sense. It is called using parallels. Josh Howard is a famous person, so is Manu. They both play in the NBA. They both discussed sensitive subjects on public forums. They both opened themselves up. Just because one may be "worse" than the other does not mean they have nothing in common.
No, but you're kind of stretching the importance of the parallels in this particular instance. Howard's comments, and the way in which they were stated, are far more inflammatory and likely to cause outrage than the way in which Manu stated his.