Is Shawne Williams wearing #4 for the Mavs?

[monosylab1k]

Because that number is taken, or at least it should be blocked from use until it's hanging in the AAC rafters with the name "Finley" on it.

[monosylab1k]

I'll hate Cuban forever if he gives somebody else Finley's number.

[mavsfan1000]

Wow you are sensitive about anything Finley.

[dirk4mvp]

Wow you are sensitive about anything Finley.

Aren't you the dipshit who thinks Finley didn't mean anything to the Mavericks?

[monosylab1k]

Wow you are sensitive about anything Finley.

suck it, bulls fan.

[IronMexican]

69 would be a cool number.

[dirk4mvp]

suck it, rocket fan.

[monosylab1k]

:lol

[mavsfan1000]

Aren't you the dipshit who thinks Finley didn't mean anything to the Mavericks?
No I meant that when past his prime, he didn't contribute to this team much. Thus why he was released.

[Obstructed_View]

No I meant that when past his prime, he didn't contribute to this team much. Thus why he was released.

That's not what you said.

[stretch]

No I meant that when past his prime, he didn't contribute to this team much. Thus why he was released.

18+ ppg, 5+ RPG, and 40% on 3-pointers are actually a pretty nice contribution.

[sribb43]

i love what Fin did for the franchise....but when I see him wearing this uniform, I am speechless.

http://www.myairshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/michael-finley-wearing-black-jordan-v-shoes-vs-lakers.jpg

[dirk4mvp]

eXixmaZDSPA

[monosylab1k]

eXixmaZDSPA

greatest youtube ever!

[Allanon]

i love what Fin did for the franchise....but when I see him wearing this uniform, I am speechless.


I have to admit there's something weird about seeing Finley in a Spurs uniform.

[JMarkJohns]

i love what Fin did for the franchise....but when I see him wearing this uniform, I am speechless.

When I think about Cuban cutting the only player that gave his all for that crappy organization I am speechless.

Mr. money bag pulled a Sarver and axed pretty much a career Mav and fan favorite just to save some money.

Now Finley has his Title and Cuban, like Sarver, is still searching for his first.

Finley should have his jersey number retired. He was one of the Mavericks all-time greats. I'm not as familiar with the Mavs as some teams, but it seems like the argument could be made that he was the best Mavs player before Dirk, no? I know Blackman was a great, but it seems like Finley was better.

[monosylab1k]

Finley should have his jersey number retired. He was one of the Mavericks all-time greats. I'm not as familiar with the Mavs as some teams, but it seems like the argument could be made that he was the best Mavs player before Dirk, no? I know Blackman was a great, but it seems like Finley was better.

IMO when it comes to talent and ability, Mark Aguirre is the #2 Mav ever behind Dirk. But Aguirre was also a surly asshole who alienated the fans and made nothing but enemies in the Dallas media.

Finley on the other hand was always classy, always great with fans, and played with fire and passion whether the team was good or bad, whether they were up by 30 or down by 30. The team might have only won 20 games a year, but he fought his ass off all 82. So he definitely is the second greatest Maverick ever in my mind.

[mavsfan1000]

When I think about Cuban cutting the only player that gave his all for that crappy organization I am speechless.

Mr. money bag pulled a Sarver and axed pretty much a career Mav and fan favorite just to save some money.

Now Finley has his Title and Cuban, like Sarver, is still searching for his first.

Finley should have his jersey number retired. He was one of the Mavericks all-time greats. I'm not as familiar with the Mavs as some teams, but it seems like the argument could be made that he was the best Mavs player before Dirk, no? I know Blackman was a great, but it seems like Finley was better.
Cuban did what was best for the franchise. Not for who his favorites are. We should keep Van Exel as well I guess. :rolleyes Finley's contract was crappy.

[monosylab1k]

If Cuban doesn't retire his jersey, I'll definitely have nothing but disgust for him. I understand why other fans hate him, but he's my team's owner and I love his passion. However, if he wrongs Finley yet again, it's the last straw. I don't care if Finley went to the Spurs or not, what he did for Dallas transcends any rivalry or bitterness. After seeing the Mavs go down in flames to GS, it was a great joy for me to see Fin win a ring.

[monosylab1k]

Cuban did what was best for the franchise.

Cuban did what was best for his wallet. Finley being cut did nothing to help our salary cap situation, just the luxury tax.

And years later, we still haven't found a decent option at SG besides the way undersized Terry.

[mavsfan1000]

Cuban did what was best for his wallet. Finley being cut did nothing to help our salary cap situation, just the luxury tax.

And years later, we still haven't found a decent option at SG besides the way undersized Terry.
We didn't have it with Finley either. T-Mac was raping him in the playoffs. Finley went cold in the playoffs and we almost lost to the Rockets. Cuban uses his wallet as much as possible to make Dallas the best team he can. Thus he felt he could spend money in other ways to make this team better than by paying Finley's horrible contract.

[The Franchise]

We didn't have it with Finley either. T-Mac was raping him in the playoffs. Finley went cold in the playoffs and we almost lost to the Rockets. Cuban uses his wallet as much as possible to make Dallas the best team he can. Thus he felt he could spend money in other ways to make this team better than by paying Finley's horrible contract.

How did that work out?

[dirk4mvp]

How did that work out?

that's hilarious coming from a "rox" fan :lol

[monosylab1k]

We didn't have it with Finley either. T-Mac was raping him in the playoffs. Finley went cold in the playoffs and we almost lost to the Rockets.

In games 3 and 4, Finley was great and kept the team ahead to hold on for the win. And a healthy T-Mac rapes everybody, not sure how you can put that on Finley. The whole defensive gameplan of the Mavs that series was to give T-Mac whatever he wanted, and instead to shut down all the secondary players like Barry, Wesley, and Sura. That didn't work out well in games 1 and 2, but I'd say after that it worked out pretty nice.

I can understand why you didn't get what was going on from the Mavs perspective in that series since you were rooting for the Rockets.

[Allanon]

Cuban has opened up his wallet on several occasions as a GREAT owner does.

But he decided to get cheap (and stupid) on two very bad occasions:

1) Finley
2) Nash

Mavs probably would have had a ring right now if they didn't let Nash walk.
Mavs would not have traded for Jason Kidd and lose Devin Harris while paying what was it...$5 million to Keith Van Horn?

[dirk4mvp]

Cuban has opened up his wallet on several occasions as a GREAT owner does.

But he decided to get cheap (and stupid) on two very bad occasions:

1) Finley
2) Nash

Explain how Nash leaving was bad for the Mavericks.

[Allanon]

Explain how Nash leaving was bad for the Mavericks.

If Nash was still with the Mavs:

Mavs probably would have had a ring right now if they didn't let Nash walk.
Mavs would not have traded for Jason Kidd and lose Devin Harris while paying what was it...$5 million to Keith Van Horn?

[monosylab1k]

Greatest Mavs

1. Dirk
2. Finley
3. Aguirre
4. Rolando
5. Bradley
6. Harper
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. JET
10. Perkins

[monosylab1k]

If Nash was still with the Mavs:

Mavs probably would have had a ring right now if they didn't let Nash walk.

What year? In 2006 we would have lost to the Spurs, because the difference in that series was Harris raping Parker, whereas if Nash was still with Dallas, it would have been the other way around.

Nobody had any idea Nash was going to develop into a 2-time MVP, but he wasn't going to play in a running system under Avery. He never would have played like that, and we would have been much worse off defensively.

[stretch]

IMO when it comes to talent and ability, Mark Aguirre is the #2 Mav ever behind Dirk. But Aguirre was also a surly asshole who alienated the fans and made nothing but enemies in the Dallas media.

Finley on the other hand was always classy, always great with fans, and played with fire and passion whether the team was good or bad, whether they were up by 30 or down by 30. The team might have only won 20 games a year, but he fought his ass off all 82. So he definitely is the second greatest Maverick ever in my mind.

yea Aguirre was a dickhead. still is.

[mavsfan1000]

How did that work out?
We became a better team the next 2 years. The Kidd trade as well as Avery eventually took us down.

[stretch]

Cuban did what was best for the franchise. Not for who his favorites are. We should keep Van Exel as well I guess. :rolleyes Finley's contract was crappy.

Um, no one argued that, dumbass. We just said he deserves more respect as an all-time Maverick.

[monosylab1k]

yea Aguirre was a dickhead. still is.

I met him once, he talked to my 6th grade basketball team. He seemed cool but only talked to us for like 5 minutes and didn't sign any autographs.

[dirk4mvp]

If Nash was still with the Mavs:

Mavs probably would have had a ring right now if they didn't let Nash walk.
Mavs would not have traded for Jason Kidd and lose Devin Harris while paying what was it...$5 million to Keith Van Horn?


lol, ring with Nash. Have you been paying attention to the Mavs? Their postseason achille's heel was getting raped by guards. Never would've beat the Spurs if Nash was still here.

And Nash hasn't won a ring with another team in which he thrives more than when he was a Maverick.

[mavsfan1000]

Um, no one argued that, dumbass. We just said he deserves more respect as an all-time Maverick.
Did you read monosylab1k posts? He was saying it was a bad decision to release Finley. Finley is on the spurs now. It will be awhile before he is retired a Mav so no problem with Shawne Williams using number 4.

[monosylab1k]

We became a better team the next 2 years. The Larry Hughes trade as well as Scott Skiles eventually took us down.

[stretch]

If Nash was still with the Mavs:

Mavs probably would have had a ring right now if they didn't let Nash walk.
Mavs would not have traded for Jason Kidd and lose Devin Harris while paying what was it...$5 million to Keith Van Horn?

Doubt it. They wouldn't have played defense. Nellie probably would have ended up staying since he still had his favorite players around and that wasn't going to win us crap.

[stretch]

Did you read monosylab1k posts? He was saying it was a bad decision to release Finley. Finley is on the spurs now. It will be awhile before he is retired a Mav so no problem with Shawne Williams using number 4.

Where did he ever say it was a bad decision? I never saw him say anything like that once in his posts.

[stretch]

Nobody had any idea Nash was going to develop into a 2-time MVP, but he wasn't going to play in a running system under Avery. He never would have played like that, and we would have been much worse off defensively.

And a lot of the reason he was able to be a 2-time MVP was because he was put into a system that utilized his talents to the absolute max. But a lot of stupid idiots are to dense to realize that.

[The Franchise]

We became a better team the next 2 years. The Kidd trade as well as Avery eventually took us down.

That Finals team was better than the last two playoff teams because of results alone. Letting Finley go was a mistake, and I can't believe I'm defending Finley!!!! :wow

[stretch]

We became a better team the next 2 years. The Kidd trade as well as Avery eventually took us down.

Who said the Mavericks are down? Gosh you are a fucking dumbshit.

[mavsfan1000]

Where did he ever say it was a bad decision? I never saw him say anything like that once in his posts.
Oh whatever. He was thinking with his heart rather than his mind. I told him the realization that Finley was getting old and his contract was very expensive. I never said that Finley was never that good. Somehow that is what you are making it out like I was saying.

[monosylab1k]

Did you read monosylab1k posts? He was saying it was a bad decision to release Finley.

I said Cuban didn't do it to help the franchise. He only did it to get some luxury tax relief. At the time it didn't appear that losing Finley would hurt since everyone expected Marquis Daniels to step in. Unfortunately Avery wouldn't give Quisy a chance and we see how things turned out at SG after that.

[mavsfan1000]

Who said the Mavericks are down? Gosh you are a fucking dumbshit.
Down from the previous 2 seasons. I think we still got it but I definitely didn't like that trade and Avery wore out his welcome. Why are you making me the bad guy here?

[dirk4mvp]

Down from the previous 2 seasons. I think we still got it but I definitely didn't like that trade and Avery wore out his welcome. Why are you making me the bad guy here?


lol

[monosylab1k]

Why are you making me the bad guy here?

Because you're a Bulls fan who hates Michael Finley.

[stretch]

That Finals team was better than the last two playoff teams because of results alone. Letting Finley go was a mistake, and I can't believe I'm defending Finley!!!! :wow

I personally DO feel that having Finley in that series could have gotten us past Miami despite the BS officiating. And having Finley I think would have gotten us past the Spurs in 5 as well, as he made some big plays in the series for the Spurs. Plus there would have been no scuffle in game 5, lol.

But oh well.

[stretch]

Oh whatever. He was thinking with his heart rather than his mind. I told him the realization that Finley was getting old and his contract was very expensive. I never said that Finley was never that good. Somehow that is what you are making it out like I was saying.

Why are you now changing the subject? We were talking about what mono said. You claimed he said it was a bad trade, when he had never said that.

Fail.

[mavsfan1000]

Because you're a Bulls fan who hates Michael Finley.
I stopped rooting for the Bulls in 1998. Seriously I'm sure a lot of you were Jordan fans in the day.

[monosylab1k]

I personally feel that having Finley in that series could have gotten us past Miami despite the BS officiating. And having Finley I think would have gotten us past the Spurs in 5 as well, as he made some big plays in the series for the Spurs. Plus there would have been no scuffle in game 5, lol.

Just having a guy of some size defending Wade would have helped. Not that he could have stopped Wade, but it would have worn D-Whistle out quicker if he was forced to drive against a solidly built 6-7 defender rather than the tiny twigs that Harris & Terry were.

[stretch]

Why are you making me the bad guy here?

I'm not. You are doing it to yourself by being retarded.

[mavsfan1000]

I personally DO feel that having Finley in that series could have gotten us past Miami despite the BS officiating. And having Finley I think would have gotten us past the Spurs in 5 as well, as he made some big plays in the series for the Spurs. Plus there would have been no scuffle in game 5, lol.

But oh well.
Cuban probably would have to cut the expense in some other way. Finley was the best way to cut expense without losing too much.

[stretch]

Just having a guy of some size defending Wade would have helped. Not that he could have stopped Wade, but it would have worn D-Whistle out quicker if he was forced to drive against a solidly built 6-6 defender rather than the tiny twigs that Harris & Terry were.

Yup, exactly. The size would have made a difference for sure. Then again, maybe it would have only resulted in more fouls for Wade.

[dirk4mvp]

I stopped rooting for the Bulls in 1998. Seriously I'm sure a lot of you were Jordan fans in the day.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[mavsfan1000]

I'm not. You are doing it to yourself by being retarded.
I don't have the emotional attachment to Finley like some of you do. That makes me retarded?

[dirk4mvp]

I don't have the emotional attachment to Finley like some of you do. That makes me retarded?


Not realizing the contributions Finely made to the Mavericks makes you retarded, yes.

[mavsfan1000]

Not realizing the contributions Finely made to the Mavericks makes you retarded, yes.
I know what he did. This team was never good enough to make a diffeence unfortunately until Finley was out of his prime. Too bad about that. Congrats for those that were hardcore mavs fans in the 90's.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't have the emotional attachment to Finley like some of you do. That makes me retarded?

No, the vast majority of your posts is what makes you retarded. The Mavericks did nothing by cutting Finley but pay him millions of dollars in salary cap money to play for their nemesis. It did not enable them to sign anyone else, it simply saved Mark Cuban a little bit of spending change.


Mono, some more love for Harp?

[JMarkJohns]

I agree with Mono that Finley's #4 should be withheld from players until the time that it's retired, at which point it's unavailable permanently. The Mavs don't have to retire the number right now while Finley's playing for a different team, but they shouldn't let others use it either.

Finley was in decline. I don't think anyone would argue that. However, his waiver did nothing to bring in new players. It didn't free up money under the CAP. It made their rotation that much thinner. It made Finley look like the bad guy in the eyes of many fans.

Cuban can justify his act all he wants, just as some fans can reiterate his positions, but cutting Finley did nothing to help the Mavs. The only positive it brought about was saving Cubes some money. It's debatable whether or not that money was ever positively invested in Finley's replacement.

[sribb43]

That Finals team was better than the last two playoff teams because of results alone. Letting Finley go was a mistake, and I can't believe I'm defending Finley!!!! :wow

Please explain?..a guy on the decline of his career getting paid $18 million per year and add to that the luxury tax cost and the fact that the mavs made it to the finals w/o him. he didnt want to take a bench role here which is what he would have been regulated to under avery. I can see how people say how could the mavs let Nash go, but Finley being released a huge mistake, c'mon now.

[Allanon]

lol, ring with Nash. Have you been paying attention to the Mavs? Their postseason achille's heel was getting raped by guards. Never would've beat the Spurs if Nash was still here.

And Nash hasn't won a ring with another team in which he thrives more than when he was a Maverick.

Nash was still developing his skills when he was with the Mavs. Nash didn't develop into the best PG in the NBA until about 2 years later.

Sure Nash wasn't a great defender but he was adequate...he gives out as much as he gets.

Nash
Finley
Howard
Dirk
Damp/Diop

I think that's a ring worthy lineup that would have gotten past the Heat.

[sribb43]

Nash was still developing his skills when he was with the Mavs. Nash didn't develop into the best PG in the NBA until about 2 years later.

Sure Nash wasn't a great defender but he was adequate...he gives out as much as he gets.

Nash
Finley
Howard
Dirk
Damp/Diop

I think that's a ring worthy lineup that would have gotten past the Heat.

with nash on the team you can get rid of damp and probably diop bc $ wouldnt have been there to sign those guys. So the mavs would have rolled out Bradley and probably Alan Henderson at center with Nash here

[Allanon]

Bradley and probably Alan Henderson at center with Nash here

That would have sucked pretty bad but I've seen Cuban spend some cash...I'm not so sure letting Nash go was so much about money than ego. Nash was hardlining how much he wanted and Cuban just said I ain't paying. Cuban was the same dude that dropped a couple mllion to Van Horn just to get Kidd.

I think it was one or 2 seasons before when Cuban said he'd pay whatever to make a championship team. Cuban just didn't want to pay Nash.

Nash, Finley, JHo, Dirk, Damp with Jet, Devin, Stack, Bass and Diop off the bench would have been one sweet frickin' lineup.

[Findog]

Nash was still developing his skills when he was with the Mavs. Nash didn't develop into the best PG in the NBA until about 2 years later.

Sure Nash wasn't a great defender but he was adequate...he gives out as much as he gets.

Nash
Finley
Howard
Dirk
Damp/Diop

I think that's a ring worthy lineup that would have gotten past the Heat.

Sigh...

No Mavs team with Nash trying to "guard" Tony Parker would've ever made it past the Spurs. And they used his salary slot to sign Dampier, so you don't get both.

[Findog]

Just having a guy of some size defending Wade would have helped. Not that he could have stopped Wade, but it would have worn D-Whistle out quicker if he was forced to drive against a solidly built 6-7 defender rather than the tiny twigs that Harris & Terry were.

Avery had his head up his ass in that series. They ran against the Spurs and beat them. They slowed it down against the Suns and beat them. They should've run on the Heat and they would've won too regardless of what Wade did. And he kept Daniels chained to the bench when he was the only guy who did a halfway decent job of guarding Wade.

That series loss is mainly on Avery.

[dirk4mvp]

Nash was still developing his skills when he was with the Mavs. Nash didn't develop into the best PG in the NBA until about 2 years later.

Sure Nash wasn't a great defender but he was adequate...he gives out as much as he gets.

Nash
Finley
Howard
Dirk
Damp/Diop

I think that's a ring worthy lineup that would have gotten past the Heat.


That was a gamble more than anything considering how rare it is that a player doesn't join the elite of the league unit they're around the age of 30.

And I also have no reason to believe they would've gotten past the Spurs with Nash like they've failed to before with him.

[sribb43]

Sigh...

No Mavs team with Nash trying to "guard" Tony Parker would've ever made it past the Spurs. And they used his salary slot to sign Dampier, so you don't get both.

How many times are we going to have to say this?

[Xylus]

The problem with saying that Nash would have elevated the Mavs to greatness, is that Nash used Cuban's snub as motivation to get better and play much harder. Nash's drastic improvement has a lot to do, also, with his chemistry with Coach D'Antoni. D'Antoni specifically designed the offense for Nash, and as a result, he flourished and got two MVP's.

That's not to say that Nash didn't deserve those awards, but I don't think he'd be the same player today if he had stayed with the Mavs.

[Allanon]

Sigh...

No Mavs team with Nash trying to "guard" Tony Parker would've ever made it past the Spurs. And they used his salary slot to sign Dampier, so you don't get both.

Nash would have scored 20 with 10-15 assists, Tony would have gotten 25 points and 5 assists. I could have lived with that.

I don't know about the Nash/Dampier implications.

Xylus does have a point, Cuban's snub might have been the reason Nash became so good. But then again, maybe he wasn't ripe yet and needed more time with Dirk. Unfortunately we'll never know.

I guess the question for you Mavs fans is this:
Given what you know now, do you think the Mavs should have kept Nash and in keeping Nash, should they have bitten the bullet and kept Finley too? So they wouldn't have Damp but they'd have Diop at Center along with Dirk, JHo, Bass, Devin, Stackhouse. Would that be a better team than they have now?

[mavsfan1000]

Avery had his head up his ass in that series. They ran against the Spurs and beat them. They slowed it down against the Suns and beat them. They should've run on the Heat and they would've won too regardless of what Wade did. And he kept Daniels chained to the bench when he was the only guy who did a halfway decent job of guarding Wade.

That series loss is mainly on Avery.
Agreed.

[monosylab1k]

It's debatable whether or not that money was ever positively invested in Finley's replacement.

I can say that it absolutely wasn't. Marquis Daniels never got a chance from Avery, Maurice Ager never got a chance from Avery, and the team has thrown away draft picks like they're manure.

Then this offseason Donnie and Mark have the audacity to say that buying a late first rounder here was just too expensive for them. Oh really, did it cost you $18 million dollars to buy a late pick? Because the claim was that the money saved in cutting Finley would go back into helping the team, and I've seen zero evidence of that. And we still don't have a decent, full sized shooting guard.

Cuban cutting Finley was 100% a move to keep more money in his pockets. Anybody who says it was done to "help the team" is lying to themselves. If so, then why are Mavs fans hoping and praying that a mediocre throw-in piece of the Kidd trade will be able to step up at SG for us?

[monosylab1k]

Given what you know now, do you think the Mavs should have kept Nash and in keeping Nash, should they have bitten the bullet and kept Finley too? So they wouldn't have Damp but they'd have Diop at Center along with Dirk, JHo, Bass, Devin, Stackhouse. Would that be a better team than they have now?

If they were keeping Nash, they never would have traded Jamison for Devin & Stack.

we could have had Nash, Finley, Jamison, Dirk, Diop with Terry as 6th man and Howard as a tremendous bench player. I'd say that in 2006 that would have been a bad ass lineup, perhaps even better than the team we had (certainly good enough to beat Miami).....but again, I don't like our chances at beating the Spurs when Nash is getting curbstomped by Tony Parker like he always is.

In hindsight, knowing that the Mavs didn't close it out in 06, and knowing that nobody else would step up to help Dirk against Miami, I definitely would have taken my chances with keeping Finley, Nash, and Jamison.

[mavsfan1000]

We signed Diop the same year we got rid of Finley. It is possible we don't get Diop if we keep Finley's contract.

[monosylab1k]

We signed Diop the same year we got rid of Finley. It is possible we don't get Diop if we keep Finley's contract.

Diop got a very small deal. He was a few pounds away from being out of the NBA until the Mavs threw him a lifeline.

And how many fucking times do we have to tell you that CUTTING FINLEY DIDN'T TAKE HIS MONEY OFF THEIR PAYROLL, HE STILL COUNTED AGAINST THE SALARY CAP. THE ONLY PERSON WHO BENEFITED WAS MARK CUBAN BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY LUXURY TAX ON FINLEY ANYMORE.

[mavsfan1000]

Well somewhere down the line that not paying luxury tax will help Cuban in not being as cheap with someone else. It's part of the thing. He ended up spending a lot on getting Kidd. Cuban having extra money just allows him to be more willing to spend money somewhere else. Common sense here. We know Cuban is willing to throw a lot of money out there if he feels really good about a deal. Maybe he was banking on Daniels being the starter. Avery Johnson screwed that part up. At this point of Finley's career, he was a liability on defense and a streaky shooter. I'm a little more pissed with Cuban for trading Harris. That was our future and the only thing to look forward with this team. Kidd was awesome in his day but now he relies totally on his eye sight. Teams will force him to shoot and pressure him on defense.

[Allanon]

Well somewhere down the line that not paying luxury tax will help Cuban in not being as cheap with someone else. It's part of the thing. He ended up spending a lot on getting Kidd. Cuban having extra money just allows him to be more willing to spend money somewhere else. Common sense here. We know Cuban is willing to throw a lot of money out there if he feels really good about a deal. Maybe he was banking on Daniels being the starter. Avery Johnson screwed that part up. At this point of Finley's career, he was a liability on defense and a streaky shooter. I'm a little more pissed with Cuban for trading Harris. That was our future and the only thing to look forward with this team. Kidd was awesome in his day but now he relies totally on his eye sight. Teams will force him to shoot and pressure him on defense.

Looking back now, Devin Harris would never have been traded for Kidd because the Mavs would already have Nash.

Finley, although sucky at times, was still a major contributor...he did help the Spurs quite a bit in their ring quest in 2007.

You guys told me Damp was brought into Nash's salary slot so:

Nash wanted $9 million/season for the next 4 years (contract ends in 2008), Eric Dampier gets $10 million so essentially the Mavs traded Nash for Damp straight up, was this worth it?

[Findog]

Nash would have scored 20 with 10-15 assists, Tony would have gotten 25 points and 5 assists. I could have lived with that.

There's a reason the Suns can't get past the Spurs, and Nash being utterly unable to keep Parker in front of him is a big part of it. It creates matchup problems elsewhere when Marion has to take him fo rhim.




Xylus does have a point, Cuban's snub might have been the reason Nash became so good. But then again, maybe he wasn't ripe yet and needed more time with Dirk. Unfortunately we'll never know.

Nash ran the fast break in Phoenix with Marion and Amare. In Dallas, he would've continued to run the two-man game with Dirk.



I guess the question for you Mavs fans is this:
Given what you know now, do you think the Mavs should have kept Nash and in keeping Nash, should they have bitten the bullet and kept Finley too? So they wouldn't have Damp but they'd have Diop at Center along with Dirk, JHo, Bass, Devin, Stackhouse. Would that be a better team than they have now?

I think Nash is a bit overrated and the Mavs went as far as they possibly could with the Dirk, Nash and Finley teams. Phoenix with D'Antoni is a much better fit for his skills than Dallas ever was. It's irritating to hear it was a mistake to keep him because they went further without him than they did with him, and his salary slot was used to get a big, that for whatever his other faults, can at least body up other elite bigs. I'd rather Dampier guard Timmy or Yao than Shawn Bradley, which is the alternative if we hadn't traded for Damp.

[monosylab1k]

Looking back now, Devin Harris would never have been traded for Kidd because the Mavs would already have Nash.

He never would have been a Maverick because we wouldn't have traded Jamison for Harris/Stackhouse if we intended to keep Nash.

[Allanon]

There's a reason the Suns can't get past the Spurs, and Nash being utterly unable to keep Parker in front of him is a big part of it. It creates matchup problems elsewhere when Marion has to take him fo rim.

I think the Suns' problems all those years were because they were too tiny in the middle. I don't think their perimeter defense hurt them as much. And I think Amare's defense is much worse than Nash's. Big teams like the Spurs would just abuse the Suns inside.



Nash ran the fast break in Phoenix with Marion and Amare. In Dallas, he would've continued to run the two-man game with Dirk.
Is that a bad thing? :) Sorry I don't know, can't remember back that far how they played.



think Nash is a bit overrated and the Mavs went as far as they possibly could with the Dirk, Nash and Finley teams. Phoenix with D'Antoni is a much better fit for his skills than Dallas ever was. It's irritating to hear it was a mistake to keep him because they went further without him than they did with him, and his salary slot was used to get a big, that for whatever his other faults, can at least body up other elite bigs. I'd rather Dampier guard Timmy or Yao than Shawn Bradley, which is the alternative if we hadn't traded for Damp.

You have a point, Nash is a bit overrated even in his prime and Damp's still one of the better Centers. But I think they still would have been better off keeping Nash. In the Antwawn Jamison trade, they might have picked up a better big than Damp since they didn't need Devin Harris?


He never would have been a Maverick because we wouldn't have traded Jamison for Harris/Stackhouse if we intended to keep Nash.

The Mavs were looking to trade Jamison regardless weren't they? And I think it was because of his contract as well? If it weren't for Harris, it would have been for another good player.

[monosylab1k]

The Mavs were looking to trade Jamison regardless weren't they? And I think it was because of his contract as well? If it weren't for Harris, it would have been for another good player.

They only wanted to trade Jamison because it would have put them in position to draft a replacement for Nash. Jamison only wanted to be traded if he had to continue being sixth man. Antoine Walker was the only guy they felt they had to trade that offseason, but once Cuban decided he didn't want to keep Nash, they traded Jamison in order to move high enough in the draft to get Harris.

If they keep Nash they don't want Harris. And Jamison would have been made a starter.

[Findog]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

[sribb43]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

couldnt have said it better myself

[monosylab1k]

Devin Harris was acquired before Nash signed with Phoenix. IIRC correctly Cuban wanted to keep Nash but not at the price Phoenix offered. Devin was insurance in case Nash left, his successor if he stayed.

Cuban had all but made it clear that he didn't want to keep Nash before the draft. Trading for Harris just spelled it out for Steve.

There's a lot of revisionist history going on here, spun mostly by Mark himself. Harris was brought in to replace Nash immediately. Nash didn't sign with Phoenix yet but Cuban had made it clear they weren't going to give him the contract he wanted.

Remember at this point, Nellie & Cuban were on the outs already, and Avery had Mark's ear. The decision to let Steve go and work towards getting a more traditional lineup in place was set well before Nash finalized his deal with the Suns.

[BlackSwordsMan]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

[stretch]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

kinda reminds you of all the spurs fans that fight amongst themselves in this forum, eh?

[BlackSwordsMan]

kinda reminds you of all the spurs fans that fight amongst themselves in this forum, eh?

Only parker and manu fans

[stretch]

Only parker and manu fans

Still spurs fans arguing amongst themselves.

[JMarkJohns]

I won't argue that Nash on the Mavs would have equalled a Title. Nor will I argue that Nash's inability to defend Parker adequately is not a big reason why the Suns have consistently struggled vs. the Spurs.

However, if the Suns system had emphasized defense a little more and they had a quality shot-blocking center, Parker may not drive to the rim as often and thus Nash would not have appeared quite so bad. It was certainly a combination of factors. Nash plays in mightily, but so to did the non-emphasis on defense within the system, and the lack of size and skill down low on defense.

Suns trade Marion for Camby and Mike Miller last year (which was actually rumored amongst those I know with ties to the Suns organization), then Nash, Bell, Miller, Amare and Camby with Barbosa, Hill, Diaw and Skinner off the bench and maybe Nash's defense isn't as big an issue.

Effin' Sarver axed this because of the salary it took on, but it worked financially, with maybe a filler or two, but neither was a big enough name to justify the added expense.

[sribb43]

I won't argue that Nash on the Mavs would have equalled a Title. Nor will I argue that Nash's inability to defend Parker adequately is not a big reason why the Suns have consistently struggled vs. the Spurs.

However, if the Suns system had emphasized defense a little more and they had a quality shot-blocking center, Parker may not drive to the rim as often and thus Nash would not have appeared quite so bad. It was certainly a combination of factors. Nash plays in mightily, but so to did the non-emphasis on defense within the system, and the lack of size and skill down low on defense.

Suns trade Marion for Camby and Mike Miller last year (which was actually rumored amongst those I know with ties to the Suns organization), then Nash, Bell, Miller, Amare and Camby with Barbosa, Hill, Diaw and Skinner off the bench and maybe Nash's defense isn't as big an issue.

Effin' Sarver axed this because of the salary it took on, but it worked financially, with maybe a filler or two, but neither was a big enough name to justify the added expense.


Not possible since Mike Miller played for the Grizz unless it was in a 3-way deal

[JMarkJohns]

Not possible since Mike Miller played for the Grizz unless it was in a 3-way deal

It was. I don't remember the specifics, but Marion went to Memphis, then Swift and filler to Denver, then Camby and Miller to Phoenix. I am pretty sure the Suns included the Hawks pick to Denver.

This was pre-Gasol-to-LA as well.

[Obstructed_View]

it's awesome seeing mavericks fans fight amongst themselves

Do you ever post anything intelligent?

[Bruno]

Cutting Finley was a smart move. By doing that Cuban roughly saved $50M.

Even if the story with Finley hasn't ended well (waived + gone to Spurs), Finley has done a lot for the Mavs. IMO, he deserves to have his jersey retired and giving his number to Williams would be lame.

[Sissiborgo]

I'll hate Cuban forever if he gives somebody else Finley's number.

haha:lol

[mavs>spurs2]

Greatest Mavs

1. Dirk
2. Finley
3. Aguirre
4. Rolando
5. Bradley
6. Harper
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. JET
10. Perkins

I was with you up until this. Shawn Bradley might be the word professional basketball player of all time

[Flight3107]

haha:lol

Great post. :tu

[monosylab1k]

I was with you up until this. Shawn Bradley might be the word professional basketball player of all time

:lol that was just on there as a joke. but really, come on, don't you have a soft spot in your heart for the Stormin' Mormon? He was so bad it was actually kind of an honor to have the worst basketball player to ever play in the NBA on our team. And really it's a testament to how good those teams were that they could make the playoffs in spite of him getting regular minutes.

The funniest thing is that in spite of how godawful he was, he still had tons of people saying "one day Shawn Bradley will be an All-Star" for the first 6 or 7 years of his career.

[JMarkJohns]

I don't know how I'd react to Bradley being my starting center, especially later in his career, but his prime stats are not bad. Over a 4/5 year stretch he averages around 12 ppg, 8 rpg, and 3 bpg.

I'll take those numbers from my center. Unfortunately he was as injury and poster prone as he was likely to make a positive impact. By the time Dallas was a contending team, his injuries had caught up with him and his production was way down.

[sribb43]

i guess we will find out shawne's number when he makes his debut tonight

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know how I'd react to Bradley being my starting center, especially later in his career, but his prime stats are not bad. Over a 4/5 year stretch he averages around 12 ppg, 8 rpg, and 3 bpg.

I'll take those numbers from my center. Unfortunately he was as injury and poster prone as he was likely to make a positive impact. By the time Dallas was a contending team, his injuries had caught up with him and his production was way down.

Yeah, the suggestion that he's a terrible player is just ignorant. He was perhaps the most overpaid player in Mavs history, which is really saying something. They signed him to one terrible contract and then, after he failed to live up to it, signed him to another one and wondered why he never played up to their expectations.

BTW, guys: shot blockers get dunked on. Sometimes spectacularly. Guys that duck away when they see someone going to the hole don't, but they don't average 3 blocks a game in the NBA, either.

[sribb43]

Looks like Shawne is wearing #4 tonight

[mavs>spurs2]

shawn bradley used to always be the special guest at mavs camp and everyone would always get pissed they wasted 200 dollars. most people threw his autograph in the trash

[monosylab1k]

Everything Shawn Bradley accomplished on the basketball court was due to his freakish size. He had ZERO basketball skill. Considering he was 7'6 you would expect him to be able to score double digit points a game, but maybe at a better shooting percentage than the typical 6'4 shooting guard. His usual percentage of 45% shooting is abysmal for anybody playing center, even more so when you're half a foot taller than most of the guys guarding you. 8 rebounds a game is pretty pathetic, again, when you're generally half a foot taller than the second tallest guy on the court.

And blocked shots are the most overrated stat in basketball. Amare gets a ton of blocks but nobody will honestly say he's a good defensive player. Plus there's a reason Bradley went for blocks - he didn't have the strength, footwork, or competence to play straight up defense on anybody in the post.

I watched more Mavs basketball in the 90's than virtually anybody on this board, I know that for sure, and I stand by my statement that Shawn Bradley is the worst basketball player ever.

[monosylab1k]

Looks like Shawne is wearing #4 tonight

Fuck Mark Cuban

[sribb43]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/2f/fullj.82e062d460c55afaf27f14f0fdfdf86a/82e062d460c55afaf27f14f0fdfdf86a-getty-83027731rh003_mavs_pacers.jpg

[monosylab1k]

Mark Cuban is an unappreciative, backstabbing bastard. Plain and simple. Can't believe I supported that prick.

Shawne Williams had better fucking live up to the legacy of #4.

[Findog]

Everything Shawn Bradley accomplished on the basketball court was due to his freakish size. He had ZERO basketball skill. Considering he was 7'6 you would expect him to be able to score double digit points a game, but maybe at a better shooting percentage than the typical 6'4 shooting guard. His usual percentage of 45% shooting is abysmal for anybody playing center, even more so when you're half a foot taller than most of the guys guarding you. 8 rebounds a game is pretty pathetic, again, when you're generally half a foot taller than the second tallest guy on the court.

And blocked shots are the most overrated stat in basketball. Amare gets a ton of blocks but nobody will honestly say he's a good defensive player. Plus there's a reason Bradley went for blocks - he didn't have the strength, footwork, or competence to play straight up defense on anybody in the post.

I watched more Mavs basketball in the 90's than virtually anybody on this board, I know that for sure, and I stand by my statement that Shawn Bradley is the worst basketball player ever.

You know, the weird thing about Bradley, is that ever so often, Nelson would put him in, and for like 4-5 minutes, he'd be the best player on the court. He'd block shots, he'd go down on the other end and score in bunches and be a beast. Then he'd go back to being a big back of suck for the other 90% of playing time. In small, small bursts mind you, but I think his problem is that he had no natural aptitude or affection for basketball, and he was pushed into it as a kid because he was so tall.

[stretch]

I watched more Mavs basketball in the 90's than virtually anybody on this board, I know that for sure, and I stand by my statement that Shawn Bradley is the worst basketball player ever.

You're nuts. Flyin Ryan Bowen and Mark Madsen are worse players than Bradley could ever imagine being. At least the Mormon could shoot the midrange shot, and hit his free throws.

[monosylab1k]

You're nuts. Flyin Ryan Bowen and Mark Madsen are worse players than Bradley could ever imagine being. At least the Mormon could shoot the midrange shot, and hit his free throws.

Ryan Bowen is the Germanator, and Mark Madsen at least hustles. Shawn Bradley was lazy, had a shitty attitude, AND he sucked.

Ryan Bowen would kill Shawn Bradley in a one on one game. So would Mark Madsen (he'd over-hustle and Bradley would lose interest).

Either way, that would be some basketball nobody would want to watch.

[IronMexican]

Mad Dog›Bradley.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Mad Dog›Bradley.

My dog > Bradley

[Shank]

My dog > Bradley

Dog the Bounty Hunter > Milton Bradley