We Need To Keep Desmon Farmer

[bgoines]

I think after last nights performance its a no brainer we keep desmon farmer on the roster for the remaining season. Somebody please do your research and you will see this guy is a scoring machine! All time leading scorer for the d league who put up 40 several times this year. Hes exactly what we need to compensate for ginoblis 20 a game

[djohn14]

I dont have any problem keeping Farmer, but this isnt the D-League. Dont you think there might be a reason why he has only played a handful of NBA games?

[BlackSwordsMan]

I think after last nights performance its a no brainer we keep desmon farmer on the roster for the remaining season. Somebody please do your research and you will see this guy is a scoring machine! All time leading scorer for the d league who put up 40 several times this year. Hes exactly what we need to compensate for ginoblis 20 a game

are you desmon farmer?

[tav1]

I think after last nights performance its a no brainer we keep desmon farmer on the roster for the remaining season. Somebody please do your research and you will see this guy is a scoring machine! All time leading scorer for the d league who put up 40 several times this year. Hes exactly what we need to compensate for ginoblis 20 a game

Welcome.

Farmer is a scorer, who has gotten better every season and is still young. But the question is not what he can he do (score), but what has kept him off an NBA roster for the last 3 seasons?

There are people on this board who could answer that question, but I'm not one of them. I only know enough to know that I want to know more.

[manufor3]

umm d-league numbers?
oh BTW welcome

[benefactor]

are you desmon farmer?
Funny you said that...I thought the exact same thing.

[Obstructed_View]

Who did he play for last night?

BTW, whose spot do we give him?

[tav1]

Who did he play for last night?

BTW, whose spot do we give him?

Roger Mason is already running some point; Hill belongs. I'd suspect that if Farmer were to impress to the point of deserving a spot, the Spurs would buy out Vaughn, and maybe make him a "special assistant" or some such.

[Obstructed_View]

Going into a season with Parker and three shooting guards who don't know the system as your point guard rotation is just insane. I can't imagine Pop would do that.

[tav1]

Going into a season with Parker and three shooting guards who don't know the system as your point guard rotation is just insane. I can't imagine Pop would do that.

Point taken. But I think Pop would do it. His G. Hill crush is already pushing the boundaries of man-love. This, of course, is assuming a remarkable preseason campaign by Farmer (or Hairston). I'm not banking on that, so take what I'm saying lightly.

A point in Farmer's favor is that the Spurs clearly want more back court scoring this season, especially in light of Manu's injury. That seems like their top off season priority. Had Manu not been injured, I'd guess they'd have still gone in this direction.

Farmer can score. Vaughn, not so much.

[T Park]

His G. Hill crush is already pushing the boundaries of man-love


Loved him so much he didn't play him an entire half in a meaningless preseason game in Houston.

Also, Vaughn isn't going anywhere, so forget about it.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

I think after last nights performance its a no brainer we keep desmon farmer on the roster for the remaining season. Somebody please do your research and you will see this guy is a scoring machine! All time leading scorer for the d league who put up 40 several times this year. Hes exactly what we need to compensate for ginoblis 20 a game

I agree. Keep Desmon and also Salim, and then buy out Jaque Vaughn. There's absolutley no chance those moves would back fire, NO CHANCE.

[DMX7]

He's a really good athlete, I like his game. I say Keep him. Without Ginobili there's going to be playing time spread around for everyone at 2-guard.

[Ice009]

He's a really good athlete, I like his game. I say Keep him. Without Ginobili there's going to be playing time spread around for everyone at 2-guard.

Well most of what I've read is he's a good athlete that can shoot the three and drive to the rack. Which is why I thought he'd be the best guy to get to fill in at the start of the season. I also read the drawback is that he's not a team player. That I'm not too worried about for now as we need the scoring ability.

Now within the last week I read on another board that he's not very athletic and too short. Was that person smoking something that said that? Which is it?

[ElNono]

If Farmer plays oustanding, he might make the Toros roster. Those are his realistic chances with this team. The Spurs are simply not going to buy out Vaughn. Not gonna happen.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Farmer is not an NBA-caliber player and has basically no chance of making this team, never mind playing meaningful minutes in a contested game in lieu of Ginobili. Forget it.

[Darkwaters]

If Farmer plays oustanding, he might make the Toros roster. Those are his realistic chances with this team. The Spurs are simply not going to buy out Vaughn. Not gonna happen.

Early on I thought he might be playing for his roster spot. But I tend to agree that Vaughn's roster spot is pretty much assured at this point. He might not be the backup at the beginning of the season, but hes not getting cut loose. Hes actually a really solid insurance plan. Hes neither the sexy nor trendy pick, but hes dependable and cheap. As promising as Hill has looked in preseason so far hes still very definitely largely an unknown. Meanwhile, Vaughn is a known quantity with 2 years experience on the team. Hence: Vaughn's not going anywhere.

[DMX7]

Well most of what I've read is he's a good athlete that can shoot the three and drive to the rack. Which is why I thought he'd be the best guy to get to fill in at the start of the season. I also read the drawback is that he's not a team player. That I'm not too worried about for now as we need the scoring ability.

Now within the last week I read on another board that he's not very athletic and too short. Was that person smoking something that said that? Which is it?

Hardly anyone is a team player in the D-League because they all want to get noticed but I understand all the points you're trying to make.

[Obstructed_View]

Loved him so much he didn't play him an entire half in a meaningless preseason game in Houston.

One would think Pop's nutsack is full of peach ice cream the way you can't keep your mouth off it.

[mrspurs]

Early on I thought he might be playing for his roster spot. But I tend to agree that Vaughn's roster spot is pretty much assured at this point. He might not be the backup at the beginning of the season, but hes not getting cut loose. Hes actually a really solid insurance plan. Hes neither the sexy nor trendy pick, but hes dependable and cheap. As promising as Hill has looked in preseason so far hes still very definitely largely an unknown. Meanwhile, Vaughn is a known quantity with 2 years experience on the team. Hence: Vaughn's not going anywhere.

bout as right as can be

[The Truth #6]

I want to take some issue with the idea of Vaughn as an insurance policy.

First, long gone are the days when Tony Parker would vanish in crucial moments and we would have to sub in a seasoned veteran. Now, Tony Parker IS the veteran and is actually quite reliable. Given that, with Tony being a very low risk of not contributing, there is very little reward in having as his backup a player that is guaranteed to give you almost nothing except not spread cancer.

Defensively, Hill already seems to be better than him. Both have issues offensively, but Hill has WAY more upside on the offensive end. And both players have extraordinary character, at least from what we've read. Given that, I think we can live without Vaughn's fake no look passes as he barrels down the lane.

But what if Tony gets injured? That's a real concern, as it is with every star. But we're already up against the wall a bit with all our veterans aging before our eyes. Not only does Hill need to get burn, which he probably will, we need to also develop another younger guard, such as Salim, or possibly Hairston or Farmer if they continue to show potential.

Vaughn does bring veteran leadership but on a team this stacked with veteran leadership we have enough for all of the weak Eastern Conference.

And not to mention that Mason has spent a good time already playing point guard. Mason as a stand by 3rd string point guard is an excellent backup.

But Vaughn knows the system better. I understand the rationale behind that but when teams slack off him and pretty much force him into taking open jumpers that he bricks, to me, that's not really helping the offensive system.

I just don't see that much reward for sticking with Vaughn when we'd be losing out on the potential for fitting a better younger player into the rotation.

Sometimes you have to fix something before it absolutely breaks. Hey, just my opinion. I'm sure others will disagree.

[bgoines]

Another nice looking performance last night. Is anybody other than me convinced yet that Farmer will be an assett to the team?

[DMX7]

Another nice looking performance last night. Is anybody other than me convinced yet that Farmer will be an assett to the team?

I am. I watched the game on AT&T U-Verse.

[T Park]

One would think Pop's nutsack is full of peach ice cream the way you can't keep your mouth off it.

How wonderfully mature and adult a response.

But doesn't make the point any less valid.

[SenorSpur]

Another nice looking performance last night. Is anybody other than me convinced yet that Farmer will be an assett to the team?

Besides being a scoring machine, I'm wondering what else does he bring to the table?

[T Park]

Besides being a career D Leaguer, I'm wondering what else does he bring to the table?

FIFY

[Darkwaters]

I want to take some issue with the idea of Vaughn as an insurance policy.

First, long gone are the days when Tony Parker would vanish in crucial moments and we would have to sub in a seasoned veteran. Now, Tony Parker IS the veteran and is actually quite reliable. Given that, with Tony being a very low risk of not contributing, there is very little reward in having as his backup a player that is guaranteed to give you almost nothing except not spread cancer.

This aspect of your argument doesn't concern me in the least. I'm not worried about Parker. I haven't been for years. But every player on every team is at risk of being injured. Parker could go down with something and miss months at a time. Do you really want to trust the team to Hill/Stoudemire or Hill/Mason in that instance? Or would you rather have a guy on the roster that has shown he can quarterback the team in a pinch? Because none of those alternate points have any experience in this system beyond summer league and 3 preseason games.

Do you really want a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5? Thats the issue.

[T Park]

Vaughn did a pretty good job in Tony's absence last year.

Was he overplayed?? Maybe so. But I think the addition of Hill would lessen that blow, and Vaughn could remain in a good to solid role.

[HarlemHeat37]

Vaughn needs to be a player-coach on the bench..he shouldn't see the court..I respect him, and I actually made a thread about him last year, when he was having a good stretch for us..

Farmer ONLY scores, but that's all we need him to do..he's a role player..Michael Finley does nothing other than score, and he's still an asset to us..these guys are role players..Farmer only needs to be an average defender when he's on the floor, since we have a great defensive system and Duncan anchoring the paint..not a concern for me..

[T Park]

Vaughn needs to be a player-coach on the bench..he shouldn't see the court..I respect him, and I actually made a thread about him last year, when he was having a good stretch for us..

Farmer ONLY scores, but that's all we need him to do..he's a role player..Michael Finley does nothing other than score, and he's still an asset to us..these guys are role players..Farmer only needs to be an average defender when he's on the floor, since we have a great defensive system and Duncan anchoring the paint..not a concern for me..


So why add to the payroll and take up a roster spot, when you already have a more proven scorer familar with the offense and defense set in place?

[HarlemHeat37]

keep them both..Finley is a very streaky player, so is Mason..it's obviously much better to have more options on offense for every given game..it's not like Farmer would be getting consistent minutes anyways, and it isn't like he would be getting paid a major amount..the payroll isn't an issue here..

[AusSpursFan]

The guy has consistently performed in the pre-season, right now he looks like a better offensive option than Stoudamire.

[Ice009]

Farmer is consistently outgunning everyone. If Pop were to make a decision today Farmer should be one of the two that makes the team.

[timtonymanu]

Farmer definitely deserves a spot.

[angelbelow]

i havent had the benefit of watching preseason games, i was wondering if farmer is scoring easy buckets(put backs, fast breaks) or if hes scoring within our offense (sets, 1v1 play, etc)?

[benefactor]

Count me in on the bandwagon...we need a scorer.

[Manufan909]

I'd rather have Hairston, but I am thinking longterm.

[barbacoataco]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

[angelbelow]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

icic, thats what i was afraid of, cause farmer is putting up points but th biggest question is he a nba scorer? thanks for the analysis.

[The Truth #6]

This aspect of your argument doesn't concern me in the least. I'm not worried about Parker. I haven't been for years. But every player on every team is at risk of being injured. Parker could go down with something and miss months at a time. Do you really want to trust the team to Hill/Stoudemire or Hill/Mason in that instance? Or would you rather have a guy on the roster that has shown he can quarterback the team in a pinch? Because none of those alternate points have any experience in this system beyond summer league and 3 preseason games.

Do you really want a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5? Thats the issue.

It concerned you enough to write about it.

I wouldn't phrase the issue as wanting a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5. I would say I want a player who can contribute in some meaningful way or at least have the potential to become a legitimate player, which is not how I would categorize Vaughn.

Given that, I see no reason to keep Vaughn. If he was gone we could potentially keep both 2 out of Salim, Hairston, or Farmer. It sounds like you take comfort in having Vaughn out there. I think his contributions are wildly overrated. I don't think he has true point guard skills nor do I think he helps the team in any real way, and his presence is holding back other younger players we should be developing, and whose contributions we need.

Hill can already plays better defense than Vaughn. That, right there, should be enough. He hit a couple threes recently, which is something Vaughn could never do. Honestly, I don't see the problem with relying on a rookie as our backup. Pop gushed about him. Should we not take him at his word?

Teams go with rookie point guards all the time. It's called developing talent. It's a concept we are slow to accept and now we're behind the curve because we haven't developed anyone in the last few years (except Ian, and that's still a mystery) and now we have to catch up in a short amount of time.

We can stick with Vaughn, which we will, but it won't make us a better team.

[The Truth #6]

Back to Farmer. We all know Pop loves gunners who have either burned us (though usually only in one game, which isn't a great basis to make an opinion from) or are veterans (aka over the hill). It would seem a no-brainer to take Farmer but because the guy hasn't been validated yet in the league, I have little hope we will keep him.

Pop almost never goes for what the fans want so going from past experience I will assume we'll sign Tolliver and Salim and that will be it.

[AusSpursFan]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

last time I checked 6-5 220lbs isn't small for a guard. Compare that to Eddie House who is 6-1 175lbs. Hairston might have more potential, but would be better off with the Toros right now. I think Farmer can come off the bench and add instant offense, however I still think our biggest need is up front.

[HarlemHeat37]

I want BOTH Hairston and Farmer on the 15-man roster..I'm tired of Tolliver, I don't buy the hype..he's a younger Bonner, which isn't a good thing..

[Fermixalot]

Farmer would be my pick as well. I like Tolliver, he hustles for boards and isn't afraid to shoot, but as was mentioned before, we can't have three different guys go 2-10 on one night.

Farmer's willingness to drive is an asset the Spurs need even with Manu and Tony. No one else really does it, and it costs the Spurs way too often. Though I am wondering as well if he is scoring in the half court offense or on fast breaks? And can he be the competent defender he has to be?

As for the other spot, I'm not sure between Watkins and Hariston. I like both of their games, hustle and guts. That's what we need and that's what they bring. Either one would be fine with me

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The sad thing is there's a good chance Farmer won't make the team.

It'll be Salim and Tolliver.


I would much much rather have Farmer, Watkins, and Hariston.

We need energy guys.....badly.

[tomtom]

I'm with the Truth here. I don't understand why so many people see Vaughn as "insurance" or a good backup. His offense is horrible and his defense is sub par. Other than being a veteran he doesn't really offer that much. I'd rather give that spot to a young guy like Farmer he might not be the greatest yet but has the ability to get better.

[Tully365]

Watching these guys fight for those last remaining spots is a lot of fun, but what it really has done is make me very excited for the arrival of James Gist next season. I think if Gist were here now, he'd be the cream of the crop.

[weebo]

I don't understand all the JV hate around here. His role on the team is to spot TP for a few minutes/night, play solid D, and let others do the scoring while he is out there. However, the opinion around this board is that if you can't score you don't deserve a roster spot.
There is more to basketball than putting up numbers on a stat sheet. JV plays his role well and Pop has said this much. He may not be worthy of starters minutes, but he is worthy of being a back up point guard on a championship team and the Spurs are not any worse off with him on the team.

[T Park]

The sad thing is there's a good chance Farmer won't make the team.

It'll be Salim and Tolliver.


I would much much rather have Farmer, Watkins, and Hariston.

We need energy guys.....badly.

Tolliver and Salim are energy guys....

[The Truth #6]

I don't understand all the JV hate around here. His role on the team is to spot TP for a few minutes/night, play solid D, and let others do the scoring while he is out there. However, the opinion around this board is that if you can't score you don't deserve a roster spot.
There is more to basketball than putting up numbers on a stat sheet. JV plays his role well and Pop has said this much. He may not be worthy of starters minutes, but he is worthy of being a back up point guard on a championship team and the Spurs are not any worse off with him on the team.

If we already had role players who could score then I would agree with you, but because we don't, Vaughn's roster spot denies a young scorer a place on the team.

Vaughn isn't a scorer and no one is expecting for that to be his role, but because we desperately need scoring, he isn't really helping to fix our weakness, if anything he is holding us back in some ways, even though he plays admirably and to the best of his abilities. This isn't about slamming Vaughn but assessing the needs of the team.

"Filling a role" and "not making mistakes" is great when we have a super talented deep bench but right now too many of the players on the team are complementary role players who only do all the "little things." Is it wrong to say that we need players who can do BIG things, like score the basketball?

Under Pop, and with Tim as our leader, a strong defense will not be our weakness. I believe the FO admits that scoring points is an issue for this team. And Pop, in my opinion, is not as strong on the offensive side as on the defensive side of the game. How else to explain infatuations with shooters who can't shoot like NVE and now Tolliver?

So yeah, I think Farmer could help the team more than Vaughn.

[DMX7]

Besides being a scoring machine, I'm wondering what else does he bring to the table?

Besides being a god, I wonder what else he brings to the table?

[Tully365]

It's a tough call for Pop.

When Manu comes back, that'll be him, Mason, Finley, Udoka, and Bowen all capable of manning the 2 spot, along with undersized guys like Salim and Hill. Tolliver can rebound and even play in the post a little, which would be valuable, especially in the event of an injury to Duncan, Thomas, or Bonner. It's hard to judge Tolliver's 3 pt abilities with any great accuracy-- in the summer league, he shot well and everyone proclaimed him a "great shooter." Now, in preseason, he's not shooting so well and many are quick to dismiss him as a "terrible shooter..." I'd guess that the truth is probably about midway in between those two extremes. One advantage I can see to keeping Farmer is the potential to use him as trade bait latter on. I'd still feel better having another 6'11" guy on this team, but Watkins has a ways to go before convincing me that he's that guy...

Good luck, Pop...

[Spurs Brazil]

Count me in on the bandwagon...we need a scorer.

+1

[exstatic]

Salim, Farmer and Hairston are fighting for that last spot. Tolliver is already in, if you're paying attention to the noises coming out of training camp. Pop likes the youngsters and is on record as dreading the cutdowns, but the only two he consistently mentions by name are Hill and Tolliver. Anthony showed enough consistent shooting from trey-land in the d-league and in Germany last year for Pop to cut him for a few games of bad shooting in which he's doing everything else right and hustling. He's the small ball four that Pop has been searching for for 4-5 years.

[The Truth #6]

I agree that Tolliver is in, and I do hope he gets out of his slump.

However, I think it's frustrating that the FO is creating a logjam with Bonner/Tolliver, and quite possibly one for guys at 6'2" and shorter if we end up keeping Salim, which I think we will - Pop seems to remember his name.

I would like to see more (as in anything televised) with Salim to make an opinion on him but I would think he would need to be significantly better at scoring than Farmer to warrant his inclusion. I think it's 50/50 if they consider Salim as a point guard considering his lack of height.

And if they do keep Salim, that gives us him, Vaughn, Hill and Tony who are all around 6'2". That's a lot of short "point guards".

[holcs50]

we gotta keep salim. Ive said this before but he really could make a difference in the playoffs. 1) great 3 point shooter when he has opportunities-and with the spurs offense he will get quite a few open looks with the doubles on TD and penetration by tp and gino. 2) he is an above 90% FT shooter, stick him in when FTs are needed and its almost guaranteed. And as we all know spurs struggle quite a bit from the stripe.

[Manufan909]

I'd go with Hairston on account of potential, when it comes to wings. I'll happilly eat my words if Tolliver starts hitting shots, but I'd rather Pop take a risk with Hairston and choose Farmer over Salim. But I'll reserve judgement til the end of the preseason.

[Tully365]

I agree that Tolliver is most likely in-- he can shoot the three some, and has experience being a post guy as a center in college, so his versatility is a big plus. I'm torn between Farmer & Hairston. Farmer does one thing obviously well-- attack and score. Hairston brings more intangible stuff like rebounding and D. I like Farmer over Salim based on the 4" size advantage and a similar game, because I already think the Spurs are too small and should avoid getting any smaller.

[AusSpursFan]

If we already had role players who could score then I would agree with you, but because we don't, Vaughn's roster spot denies a young scorer a place on the team.

Vaughn isn't a scorer and no one is expecting for that to be his role, but because we desperately need scoring, he isn't really helping to fix our weakness, if anything he is holding us back in some ways, even though he plays admirably and to the best of his abilities. This isn't about slamming Vaughn but assessing the needs of the team.

"Filling a role" and "not making mistakes" is great when we have a super talented deep bench but right now too many of the players on the team are complementary role players who only do all the "little things." Is it wrong to say that we need players who can do BIG things, like score the basketball?

Under Pop, and with Tim as our leader, a strong defense will not be our weakness. I believe the FO admits that scoring points is an issue for this team. And Pop, in my opinion, is not as strong on the offensive side as on the defensive side of the game. How else to explain infatuations with shooters who can't shoot like NVE and now Tolliver?

So yeah, I think Farmer could help the team more than Vaughn.

totally agree, just wish Pop would see it

[wildbill2u]

Looks to me like NONE of these guys has the skills to be a lock and that's why there is so much difference of opinion on who to keep.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a couple of players who really stand out and make the decision easy?

[Barbie]

omg, enuff wit da ugly names, da spurs need sexii names like Chad and Brad <3

:cheer

[bgoines]

Has anyone seen the last two games if you have you would understand why i started this blog. Desmon Farmer game speaks for himself i think we'll see him in a jearsey for the rest of the season folks!!!!

[MoSpur]

Has anyone seen the last two games if you have you would understand why i started this blog. Desmon Farmer game speaks for himself i think we'll see him in a jearsey for the rest of the season folks!!!!

I was at the game last night. He has a good offensive game and shot, but his all around game isn't all that IMO. I think Malik has a better all around game. He defends better and isn't afraid of contact on the offensive end and defensive end. There was a time that some big foreigner dude drove to the basket from the elbow and had the intention of throwing it down, but Malik went up to block it and gave that dude a hard foul.

[Darkwaters]

I was at the game last night. He has a good offensive game and shot, but his all around game isn't all that IMO. I think Malik has a better all around game. He defends better and isn't afraid of contact on the offensive end and defensive end. There was a time that some big foreigner dude drove to the basket from the elbow and had the intention of throwing it down, but Malik went up to block it and gave that dude a hard foul.

During Summer League who would have thought that we'd be so torn over the idea of dismissing Hairston? He looked so bad back then, and pretty decent now.

[MoSpur]

During Summer League who would have thought that we'd be so torn over the idea of dismissing Hairston? He looked so bad back then, and pretty decent now.


True. Maybe he just needed to get a little more comfortable. Who knows?