Spurs @ Pistons Preseason Game 3 - Player Analysis

[timvp]

Tim Duncan
Giving only minimal effort, Duncan was very good. His touch around the basket was impressive and he was aware on both ends of the court. Overall, Duncan looks to be in good shape and should be able to help carry the load when the season starts.

Bruce Bowen
Bowen is already giving good energy on the defensive end of the court. He chased around Richard Hamilton for most of his time on the court. On the offensive end, it was good to see him knock down a few shots. It's difficult to say for sure but it appears as if he can play at the same level he did last season.

George Hill
I was very impressed with what I saw out of Hill. Defensively is where it all begins for the rookie point guard. He can pressure the ball the length of the court and he uses his combination of quickness and length to disrupt ballhandlers. Perhaps even more impressive is his ability to help defensively -- whether it be play the passing lane or switch off onto a bigman. Hill isn't as advanced offensively but his outside jumper looks much better than it did in summer league. I'd still like to see him finish at the rim with more authority and up his level of aggressiveness but overall Hill has surpassed expectations so far in preseason. However, with news that Hill injured his thumb and even possibly tore ligaments, that could be a major blow to both Hill's progression and the Spurs' backcourt.

Ime Udoka
To start the game, Udoka looked bad. His jumper was way off, he was slow on defense and just looked very rusty overall. After Hill got hurt, Udoka played some minutes at point guard and that really turned his game around. He seemed to finally get into a rhythm and looked much more comfortable. As a result, he finished a couple plays at the basket and mixed in a three-pointer. He still has a ways to go before he's in regular season form but it was good to see some signs of life out of him.

Anthony Tolliver
You gotta give the guy props for just not being afraid to jack up shots. So far in the preseason, Tolliver has shot almost every time he's had an open look. The problem for Tolliver is he isn't hitting very many of his attempts. In the first three preseason games, Tolliver is just 8-for-30 from the field and 3-for-16 from beyond the three-point arc. For as much as Pop likes shooters who don't hesitate to shoot the ball, Tolliver has to prove that he can actually hit open jumpers. He was on fire in summer league but he doesn't have much of a history of being a good shooter. Tolliver gives decent effort on defense and rebounding the ball but he's going to have to show that his summer league shooting wasn't a fluke to actually make the team.

Desmon Farmer
Although he's not blessed with great size and he’s not overly athletic, Farmer is proving that he can score the basketball. His 13 points in 30 minutes led the Spurs as he was relentlessly attacking the Pistons defense. In the first three preseason games, Farmer has shown that he's a willing jumper shooter who also has a quick first step to the basket. His physical limitations make it somewhat difficult for him to finish at the rim but he's found ways to score in the paint. If the Spurs want someone whose main focus is to score the ball each time he touches it, Farmer would be a good player to keep around.

Malik Hairston
Hairston had a mixed bag of good moments and not so good moments on Tuesday. Pop ripped into him after a couple of defensive lapses but then Hairston bounced back with some really nice plays on D. He had three blocks in the game to go along with seven rebounds in 29 minutes. Although he shot only 2-for-9 from the floor, Hairston showed good athleticism and one of his makes was from downtown. Like Hill, Hairston has improved vastly from summer league and is starting too look like a decent enough candidate to make the team.

Devin Green
After uninspired play over the first three quarters, Green played very well in the fourth. He took over point guard duties for a part of the quarter and did a fine job. While he has a tendency to ball hog at times, Green played under control for the most part and even mixed in a few good passes. It's going to be tough for him to make the team but he helped himself on Tuesday night by showing he can play multiple positions.

Matt Bonner
It'd be nice to say that Bonner has looked a lot better -- but that's simply not the case. He looks like the same Matt Bonner that we saw last year. He'll make a few good plays but then follow those up with a series of bonehead plays. Hopefully Bonner can show something over the next few weeks to give the Spurs and their fans hope that he can actually turn the corner.

Jacque Vaughn
Vaughn started the game off not playing too well but then got into a groove where he was playing well on both ends of the court. His defense came alive as he forced a few turnovers and then he began setting up his teammates nicely on the other end. With the injury to Hill, Vaughn's chances of making the team probably rose to 100%.

Fabricio Oberto
It's likely due to not having the full complement of scorers around him but Oberto has seemed more aggressive this preseason. Although it is unlikely that he can take another step forward at age 33, it'd be extremely helpful since the Spurs are relatively thin at the bigman positions.

Darryl Watkins
In his 12 minutes of action, Watkins played decently but not well enough to prove he deserves a roster spot. Watkins is an interest prospect because he has very good NBA size, he's an above average athlete for a bigman and he has good timing. The main problem for him is he's still very much of a project. He doesn't have much basketball talent and is just surviving on his athleticism and timing. To compound those developmental issues, he has horrible hands that might literally be made of stone.

Charles Gaines
Gaines gives pretty good effort but he's too small and too unathletic to make it in the NBA as a bigman.

[polandprzem]

I hate that "turn the corner", "step forward" kinda shit


If a player takes a step forward he is better right?
How come he is better when he just had a better day then normal?

[timvp]

How come he is better when he just had a better day then normal?Turning the corner is when the better day becomes normal.

[byrontx]

Thanks for the recap. I always look forward to your take on the games.

[Sissiborgo]

We Got the W though...

[wildchild]

It's likely due to not having the full complement of scorers around him but Oberto has seemed more aggressive this preseason.

I'm not sure. As far as I can see the guy did the same job last two seasons. Oberto had pretty good games early in the regular season last year, good enough for the start the season but for whatever reason all years in January he's being faded until the playoffs when he seems wake up.

[wildchild]

George Hill
I was very impressed with what I saw out of Hill. Defensively is where it all begins for the rookie point guard. He can pressure the ball the length of the court and he uses his combination of quickness and length to disrupt ballhandlers. Perhaps even more impressive is his ability to help defensively -- whether it be play the passing lane or switch off onto a bigman. Hill isn't as advanced offensively but his outside jumper looks much better than it did in summer league. I'd still like to see him finish at the rim with more authority and up his level of aggressiveness but overall Hill has surpassed expectations so far in preseason.However, with news that Hill injured his thumb and even possibly tore ligaments, that could be a major blow to both Hill's progression and the Spurs' backcourt

Couldn't agree more. It wouldn't surprise me if the rookie finish playing the season as the 2nd pg over Vaughn. Damn the fucking injuries. Wake me when all guys are healthy. Manu Salim KT Ian, now Hill?

[MoSpur]

I'm glad to see Hill improving.

[polandprzem]

Turning the corner is when the better day becomes normal.

Yes I know that's why it will never happen with Bonner

Hopefully Bonner can show something over the next few weeks to give the Spurs and their fans hope that he can actually turn the corner.

^^^

This is the same sentence you could copy & paste from last year.

After all those years I can't see him "happen" a better basketball player.

All we can wish for is him get his role done in short moment he will be on the court. But can he do it when all his career looks like you said: Good plays with bonehead plays.


btw. thanks for analysis
Hopefully you will be able to g9ive them every game like you did it last year. (I think once whottt got your permission to write it for you)

[pad300]

...Damn the fucking injuries. Wake me when all guys are healthy. Manu Salim KT Ian, now Hill?

Look on the bright side, better now than in April ...

[Obstructed_View]

Darryl Watkins
he has horrible hands that might literally be made of stone.

What player are you watching? He makes bad decisions, but he has good hands.

[T Park]

Agreed, from what I've watched, Watkins recieves the ball quite well. Its one of his best traits IMO.

Will he make the team? Stupidly no, but hopefully the Toros pick him up and keep him within arm's length

[Bender]

quite a difference of opinion on Watkins. I didn't see any SL games or preseason games, so I'm wondering which it really is
:wtf

[timvp]

What player are you watching? He makes bad decisions, but he has good hands.In his short stints on the court during preseason, I've witness about eight balls bounce off his hands and out of bounds. In the first two games he had nine turnovers, mostly due to bad hands. Last night he had at least two passes bounce off him.

If he made the Spurs, he'd have Spurs fans hoping that he could switch hands with Nazr.

[timvp]

Yes I know that's why it will never happen with BonnerThe Spurs are banking on it to happen to some degree. Both Pop and Duncan both called out Bonner on the first day of training camp as a player who needs to step up and play better this year.

Sounds like you need to email that duo and say that can't happen :smokin

[DPG21920]

Speaking of terrible hands, I never realized how bad of hands Bonner has. He never holds onto rebounds or anything.

[angelbelow]

thanks! i really liked what i saw some hills box score but im glad to hear some inperson analysis.

[SenorSpur]

Agreed, from what I've watched, Watkins recieves the ball quite well. Its one of his best traits IMO.

Will he make the team? Stupidly no, but hopefully the Toros pick him up and keep him within arm's length

That would be good enough for me. I have a hunch they'll probably need him at some point.

[SenorSpur]

So is it a consensus that Hill WILL supplant JV as backup PG? Or has he already?

I know Pop has a super man-crush on Hill, I just don't want to get my hopes up too high now, only to see Pop roll out Vaughn and the first PG off the bench in the season opener.

[Anti.Hero]

Can any of the bigs post up besides Duncan or will we be relying on jump shots again all season?

[tav1]

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2008/10/mike_monroe_rel.html

Hill's going to be okay.

Two notes from the article: 1) Here comes Stoudamire and 2) I wonder if Pop means a couple regular season games or preseason games...if regular season, then he's just come close to naming Hill back up...

[Oink Oink]

Watkins>>>>>>>>>>>>Tolliver

[Obstructed_View]

Speaking of terrible hands, I never realized how bad of hands Bonner has. He never holds onto rebounds or anything.

Bonner's problem is that he has an extremely low basketball IQ. He doesn't anticipate who is going to be where, which is why he's not in position to get the ball and is usually battling with a teammate for it when it goes out of bounds. He's actually a good defender, and he's very active. He's slightly smarter than Elson but that isn't saying much.

[mystargtr34]

Did anyone watch the morning Bucks Warriors game, as Elson came into the game, Tim Legler started raving about his professionalism and high basketball IQ.

[Obstructed_View]

In his short stints on the court during preseason, I've witness about eight balls bounce off his hands and out of bounds. In the first two games he had nine turnovers, mostly due to bad hands. Last night he had at least two passes bounce off him.

You're simply making stuff up. He had zero turnovers in last night's game. of his nine turnovers, two were offensive fouls, one was a 3 second violation and three were stolen passes. That leaves a maximum of three balls that could have bounced off his hands, so "mostly" goes out the door.

Of the two games I watched, he had very good hands. He made good passes in the lane and received passes going to the front of the rim, including his dunk on Yao. He cleans up the glass very well and doesn't have any problem handling the ball. I wouldn't ask him to dribble the ball up the floor, but he even does that better than Tolliver does.

[timvp]

You're simply making stuff up. He had zero turnovers in last night's game.Typically when a pass is thrown to a bigman and it bounces off of him and goes out of bounds, the turnover goes to the player who threw the pass. Him having no turnovers last night means nothing in regards to whether or not two passes bounced off his hands.


Of the two games I watched, he had very good hands.I've watched all three preseason games and almost every summer league game he's ever played in. His bad hands are blatantly apparent. If you don't want to believe me, feel free to watch him wherever he ends up this year and report back.


Doesn't have the best hands, it's not uncommon for him to fumble passes on post up plays

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/darrylwatkins.html
I guess they were just making up things as well.

[Obstructed_View]

Typically when a pass is thrown to a bigman and it bounces off of him and goes out of bounds, the turnover goes to the player who threw the pass.

That's not what you said:


In the first two games he had nine turnovers, mostly due to bad hands
Unless you are going to say his bad hands caused him to commit three second violations or offensive fouls, that statement is wrong.


Him having no turnovers last night means nothing in regards to whether or not two passes bounced off his hands.
Fair enough. I've got the game recorded and I'll go back and watch every minute of time he had.


I've watched all three preseason games and almost every summer league game he's ever played in. His bad hands are blatantly apparent.
If it's so blatantly apparent, then you shouldn't have to make shit up when you're writing something that will influence the way much of the fanbase reacts to him. By the way, how did you see the New Orleans game when it wasn't televised?


If you don't want to believe me, feel free to watch him wherever he ends up this year and report back.
At this point, I seriously hope he doesn't end up here because you're going to ride him for shit he didn't do just like you've done for other players you decide ahead of time that you don't like.


I guess they were just making up things as well.
Wow, you should be proud that you your writeup has more in common with an 18 month old draft writeup than it does his last three games.

[T Park]

y the way, how did you see the New Orleans game when it wasn't televised?


I'm gonna guess he attended the game.

[T Park]

At this point, I seriously hope he doesn't end up here because you're going to ride him for shit he didn't do just like you've done for other players you decide ahead of time that you don't like.




Like who, that stiff Udrih?

[timvp]

That's not what you said:


Unless you are going to say his bad hands caused him to commit three second violations or offensive fouls, that statement is wrong. I'll assume you looked over the play-by-plays to calculate where his turnovers came from. I didn't go through the play-by-plays before I said most. Perhaps the turnovers which I thought were credited to him were actually credited elsewhere. Or perhaps the statistician mislabeled a "bad pass" when he simply just fumbled it away.

If you want me to admit it wasn't mathematically "most" according to turnovers the statisticians credited him with, I'll apologize to both of you and say I might be wrong. Maybe it was 30-40% instead of more than 50%.

But then again, a ball bouncing off his hands doesn't count as his turnover so to get a true percentage, we'd probably have to add that in somehow . . .


Fair enough. I've got the game recorded and I'll go back and watch every minute of time he had.Sounds like a good idea.


If it's so blatantly apparent, then you shouldn't have to make shit up when you're writing something that will influence the way much of the fanbase reacts to him. By the way, how did you see the New Orleans game when it wasn't televised?Saying he has bad hands isn't making anything up. Give yourself more than a handful of minutes watching him and you'll agree.

Oh and I watched the game at this place called the AT&T Center.


At this point, I seriously hope he doesn't end up here because you're going to ride him for shit he didn't do just like you've done for other players you decide ahead of time that you don't like. Like who? Sounds like you are making things up now.

I didn't like Elson when the Spurs signed him but I held on to beliefs so strongly that I admitted to being wrong after one game. Too bad I didn't end up being wrong.

Got any other examples?



Wow, you should be proud that you your writeup has more in common with an 18 month old draft writeup than it does his last three games.Not as proud as you should be for being able to dispute a player's attributes after watching him play trash minutes in two preseason games. Super scout, you are.

[Romo]

Like who, that stiff Udrih?

http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/Ass_kisser_breath_spray.jpg

[Blackjack]

George Hill
I was very impressed with what I saw out of Hill. Defensively is where it all begins for the rookie point guard. He can pressure the ball the length of the court and he uses his combination of quickness and length to disrupt ballhandlers. Perhaps even more impressive is his ability to help defensively -- whether it be play the passing lane or switch off onto a bigman. Hill isn't as advanced offensively but his outside jumper looks much better than it did in summer league. I'd still like to see him finish at the rim with more authority and up his level of aggressiveness but overall Hill has surpassed expectations so far in preseason. However, with news that Hill injured his thumb and even possibly tore ligaments, that could be a major blow to both Hill's progression and the Spurs' backcourt.

That's what's really impressed me so far. His ability to play centerfield, if you will, and recover to his man. I knew he had the physical tools, but the instincts and grit he's shown could lead to an all-league defender down the road. He's got a little Rondo in the way he defends and rebounds, but is a much better shooter. Rondo is a much better playmaker and finisher around the basket, but if Hill can be somewhat like Rondo playing back-up to Tony??? Let's just say, that pick is looking better and better.


Malik Hairston
Hairston had a mixed bag of good moments and not so good moments on Tuesday. Pop ripped into him after a couple of defensive lapses but then Hairston bounced back with some really nice plays on D. He had three blocks in the game to go along with seven rebounds in 29 minutes. Although he shot only 2-for-9 from the floor, Hairston showed good athleticism and one of his makes was from downtown. Like Hill, Hairston has improved vastly from summer league and is starting too look like a decent enough candidate to make the team.

The way Pop tore into Hairston's ass after not getting over that screen from Sheed is probably good news for Hairston. Hairston has proved to be a much better finisher and defender than I gave him credit for. His post defense at the swing position has been really impressive. He plays much bigger and stronger than he is,(Has a bit of a Bonzi physique) and showed some good timing/instincts in blocking larger players shots while playing on the ball. The challenge for him will be to control his weight (He did a great job of getting his weight down before the draft and coming into camp) and extending his mid-range jumper (where he excells) out to the three.


Darryl Watkins
In his 12 minutes of action, Watkins played decently but not well enough to prove he deserves a roster spot. Watkins is an interest prospect because he has very good NBA size, he's an above average athlete for a bigman and he has good timing. The main problem for him is he's still very much of a project. He doesn't have much basketball talent and is just surviving on his athleticism and timing. To compound those developmental issues, he has horrible hands that might literally be made of stone.

While he does need work, he actually has some pretty decent touch and hands for a big. He's capable of knocking down a shot from 10-15', but he needs to build the confidence to actually make it part of his repertoire. As far as his hands, He'll drop some he shouldn't and catch some most wouldn't. He's dealing with an unfamiliar team and teammates he's barely played with, so to completely judge his hands would be a little unfair. From what I've seen of him at Syracuse and the little time at Sac., I'm pretty sure once things slow down and he's gotten some familiarity with who's dishing him the ball that he'll be alright. Nothing spectacular, but a serviceable big for the Spurs or whoever he might land with.

[tomtom]

So whats the prediction for Mahinmi? Another year in D league? I hope nots :(

[T Park]

since he won't play 1 preseason game it looks that way.

[polandprzem]

Sounds like you need to email that duo and say that can't happen :smokin

They never responding to my e-mails ...







j/k


:lol:



We will see what gonna happen.
What else Pop and Tim had to do? They need to cooperate with Bonner, there is nobody else they can turn to in Spurs. (he is the only big that can hit mid and full range)

[Obstructed_View]

I'll assume you looked over the play-by-plays to calculate where his turnovers came from. I didn't go through the play-by-plays before I said most. Perhaps the turnovers which I thought were credited to him were actually credited elsewhere. Or perhaps the statistician mislabeled a "bad pass" when he simply just fumbled it away.
Or perhaps he didn't make them.


If you want me to admit it wasn't mathematically "most" according to turnovers the statisticians credited him with, I'll apologize to both of you and say I might be wrong. Maybe it was 30-40% instead of more than 50%.
You love massaging those numbers to keep yourself from having to admit you made it up. It wasn't mathematically "most" by any stretch of the imagination. The absolute highest percentage it could have been was 33 percent, and that's only if his other turnovers happened to be exactly what you said. Since you seemed to imagine seeing the same thing in the Detroit game, your credibility is in doubt.

I went back and watched the game. He had two steals in the first three minutes. First he poked the ball away from Maxiell in the post, got control and passed it to Farmer who layed it up off the glass. He also made a nice pass on a give and go to Udoka for one of his layups.

He took a pass from Green with one hand and went up and dunked it and was fouled.

I did see a pass bounce off his hands, but it was a Pistons pass that he reached out and got a piece of. He also missed an offensive rebound that bounced off his hands and went out of bounds, but he'd pushed off to get into position and got whistled for it.


But then again, a ball bouncing off his hands doesn't count as his turnover so to get a true percentage, we'd probably have to add that in somehow . . .
You could blame every bad pass in the box score on him. That would be a good start.


Saying he has bad hands isn't making anything up. Give yourself more than a handful of minutes watching him and you'll agree.
You based your claim that he has "horrible hands" partially on this game where he demonstrated anything but. If that's not the definition of having prejudged the guy, then I don't know what is.


Oh and I watched the game at this place called the AT&T Center.
Ah. The Audio League Pass feed was only the New Orleans broadcast, which is why I thought it was in NO. My bad.


Not as proud as you should be for being able to dispute a player's attributes after watching him play trash minutes in two preseason games. Super scout, you are.
Since you made the title of this thread "Spurs@Pistons Preseason Game 3 - Player Analysis" I just assumed that you'd base your analysis on what actually happened in the game. How silly of me.

[SenorSpur]

So whats the prediction for Mahinmi? Another year in D league? I hope nots :(

He's missed so much valuable training camp time, I can see him being buried deep on the bench. If he does play, he'll have an awfully short leash. I just hope the kid hasn't regressed. If so, perhaps some time in D-League may be warranted to start the year.

[SenorSpur]

Darryl Watkins
While he does need work, he actually has some pretty decent touch and hands for a big. He's capable of knocking down a shot from 10-15', but he needs to build the confidence to actually make it part of his repertoire. As far as his hands, He'll drop some he shouldn't and catch some most wouldn't. He's dealing with an unfamiliar team and teammates he's barely played with, so to completely judge his hands would be a little unfair. From what I've seen of him at Syracuse and the little time at Sac., I'm pretty sure once things slow down and he's gotten some familiarity with who's dishing him the ball that he'll be alright. Nothing spectacular, but a serviceable big for the Spurs or whoever he might land with.

This kid may be a project, but I agree with you. My hunch is that he can serviceable big for this team too.

[2centsworth]

Essentially the entire preseason wrapped up into one post. I appreciate Timvp. All I really care about is whether Hill can play in the NBA.