The Final Debate Thread

[Cry Havoc]

"Health of the mother is a topic that's been stretched"

That's not ALL that's being stretched in an unwanted pregnancy!

Know whattam sayin'!?

[Shelly]

the roe v wade discussion was a waste of time

[td4mvp21]

the roe v wade discussion was a waste of time

:tu

[ploto]

It is interesting to read blogs all over the net. The one I just checked in on is not happy at all with McCain's tone.

[Cry Havoc]

Nicely done by being so fucking retarded you take X and turn it into Y. Who are you trying to convince?
I never said that. Nicely done. Idiot.

Name-calling. Brilliant move on your part. Care to tell us what Obama would have to do to maintain your respect?

[Cry Havoc]

It is interesting to read blogs all over the net. The one I just checked in on is not happy at all with McCain's tone.

Where do you find random blogs?

[tp2021]

Parent responsibilty!

:clap

[JoeChalupa]

I'm calling it now....Sean insHannity, Rush Limpballs, Glen Beck and Pat Buchanan are going to have a hard-on for McCain's chances again.

[CuckingFunt]

Parent responsibilty!

:clap

Ditto.

[Cry Havoc]

Booooo to putting away video games. :lol

[JoeChalupa]

No examinations for teachers?

[CuckingFunt]

Straight to teaching without examinations??

[PixelPusher]

Parent responsibilty!

:clap

yet another spiteful attack on Sarah Palin from the libruls...

[JoeChalupa]

Booooo to putting away video games. :lol

I agree, especially when you've got campaign ads on X-Box. :lol

[tp2021]

Agreement from CF...


I should get a spur or something.
:)

[Shelly]

Booooo to putting away video games. :lol

:lol my kids agree!

[jochhejaam]

I'm calling it now....Sean insHannity, Rush Limpballs, Glen Beck and Pat Buchanan are going to have a hard-on for McCain's chances again.

The only one on that list that unequivocally supports McCain is Hannity, neither Rush nor Beck care much for him.

[possessed]

It's us regular joe's who will by the key this year.

Ha! Some people have too much time on their hands.

Wasn't Joe The Plumber was a WWF wrestler back in the late 80's?

[tp2021]

I agree, especially when you've got campaign ads on X-Box. :lol

I see what you did there, Obama! :lol

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Name-calling. Brilliant move on your part. Care to tell us what Obama would have to do to maintain your respect?

He can start by having less supporters like you. You're like the liberal version of a neocon. Could you be any less annoying?

McCain is being a sarcastic bastard with last second bits on most questions. fact
Obama sits there and smiles about very serious accusations being made by McCain. fact
McCain wins this debate. Just wait till the polls.

Obama had like countless different options to respond to McCain's bull shit and just smiled and let him get the last word in. He's playing like a pussy. Fact.

What don't you understand here? As if discrediting me changes the factual nature of my factual facts.

[CuckingFunt]

Booooo to putting away video games. :lol

Yeah... I enthusiastically agreed with the sentiment that we need parents to take responsibility and instill a thirst for knowledge in their kids, but I loves me my video game machines.

[Shelly]

Who ever makes my husband's student loans disappear gets my vote!

[SpursFanFirst]

Parent responsibilty!

:clap


absolutely!

[ploto]

Yeah... I enthusiastically agreed with the sentiment that we need parents to take responsibility and instill a thirst for knowledge in their kids, but I loves me my video game machines.

You can do both- imagine that. :)

[Supergirl]

Here’s basically how it seems to be going:

McCain: Obama will raise your taxes! Obama will raise your taxes!
Obama: No, I won’t. Not if you make less than $250K a year, and that’s 95% of you.
McCain: I love Joe the Plumber! He’s my new best friend! Even though I’ve probably never had to interface with a plumber in my life, in any one of my 5 houses.
Obama: Joe the Plumber won’t be paying more taxes either, by the way. 98% of small business owners make less than $250K a year.
McCain: Obama’s a Black man! I can’t be losing to a Black man!
Obama: I think that we should bring our politics above the level of name-calling and baseless accusations.
McCain: Black I tell you! I’m losing to a Black man!
Obama: Your running mate refused to intervene when people at her rallies called me a terrorist.
McCain: Obama will raise your taxes! Obama will raise your taxes!
Obama: No I won’t. Does anyone still believe anything McCain says?
McCain: Obama is pro-choice! He’s pro-abortion! No litmus test!
Obama: I support ban on late term abortions, as long as there’s an exception to save the life of the woman.
McCain: See! He’s sneaky! He’s pro-abortion!
Obama: I think we need new teachers, and to pay them better. I think we should make college more affordable, especially since college education increases the chances that people will stop being backwards fuckwits.
McCain: Send our kids to private, Catholic schools with vouchers! Fire bad teachers! Let’s not throw money at poor and underfunded schools, they’re only educating Black kids anyway. We don’t want those people to get educated.

[tp2021]

Who ever makes my husband's student loans disappear gets my vote!

I just started, and I'm already worried about the possibility of being lost under student loans. :(

[JoeChalupa]

There's that compassionate conservatism!!!!

[jochhejaam]

The problems with inner city public education are the teacher unions and a major lack of parental involvement and responsibility. I don't see how either can be fixed.

Vouchers won't help that much if the Parents don't give a darn, same with Charter Schools, great concept, but you still can't force the parents to care.

[Shelly]

I just started, and I'm already worried about the possibility of being lost under student loans. :(

We deferred them for 3-4 years. It added up.

[tp2021]

My friends...

[PixelPusher]

He can start by having less supporters like you. You're like the liberal version of a neocon. Could you be any less annoying?

McCain is being a sarcastic bastard with last second bits on most questions. fact
Obama sits there and smiles about very serious accusations being made by McCain. fact
McCain wins this debate. Just wait till the polls.

Obama had like countless different options to respond to McCain's bull shit and just smiled and let him get the last word in. He's playing like a pussy. Fact.

What don't you understand here? As if discrediting me changes the factual nature of my factual facts.
Being a dick to "That One" hasn't helped McCain before, why do you think it'll help him now?

[jochhejaam]

John throws sarcasm Obama's way, and in the next breath tells him it's been great to be with him...

[jochhejaam]

My friends...

...I know how.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Obama played this debate as if the election is in the bag, but its that kind of hubris that can spark a last second rally by potential McCain supporters. This election is the farthest from ordinary, and Obama's playing possum strategy is a dangerous one, IMO.

[SpursFanFirst]

Good closing statement.

[Cry Havoc]

He can start by having less supporters like you. You're like the liberal version of a neocon. Could you be any less annoying?

McCain is being a sarcastic bastard with last second bits on most questions. fact
Obama sits there and smiles about very serious accusations being made by McCain. fact
McCain wins this debate. Just wait till the polls.

Obama had like countless different options to respond to McCain's bull shit and just smiled and let him get the last word in. He's playing like a pussy. Fact.

What don't you understand here? As if discrediting me changes the factual nature of my factual facts.

I'm a moderate, but you can continue to A) name call and B) label me all you want. You say McCain is winning, when in reality he's just talking more, a lot more. In fact, he's interrupting Obama AND the moderator to talk as much as possible. And yet, many people in this thread think Obama is doing fine in this debate. Isn't that interesting? :toast

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Being a dick to "That One" hasn't helped McCain before, why do you think it'll help him now?

He's doing it in a less abstract and a more concrete way this time. Saying Obama worked with a terrorist is just the type of bull shit that can sway idiot undecided voters. Just the type of shit that will turn off senile retired semi-undecided jews in Florida.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I'm a moderate, but you can continue to A) name call and B) label me all you want. You say McCain is winning, when in reality he's just talking more, a lot more. In fact, he's interrupting Obama AND the moderator to talk as much as possible. And yet, many people in this thread think Obama is doing fine in this debate. Isn't that interesting? :toast

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

[CuckingFunt]

The problems with inner city public education are the teacher unions and a major lack of parental involvement and responsibility. I don't see how either can be fixed.

Vouchers won't help that much if the Parents don't give a darn, same with Charter Schools, great concept, but you still can't force the parents to care.

The public education system isn't ever going to be cleaned up until people stop thinking of it as a system that isn't ever going to be cleaned up.

[Wild Cobra]

The only one on that list that unequivocally supports McCain is Hannity, neither Rush nor Beck care much for him.

How very true. Even Hannity however supports him as the lesser of two evils. Every conservative talk radio host I heard is that way.

It still amazes me that the primary process produce McCain.

[boutons_]

"last second rally by potential McCain supporters"

there aren't enough of them. Independents leaning or have gone to HUSSEIN 60-40.

[jochhejaam]

Top notch health care and college for everyone, and yet 95% of the taxpayers are going to get a tax cut?

I don't see it.

[JoeChalupa]

and now the spinning begins. Grab your hats!!!!

[SpursFanFirst]

Scheiffer rocks!
He should still be anchoring. :depressed

[dg7md]

McCain's laughing and teeth bearing is extremely awkward, he's far to jittery too.

[JoeChalupa]

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

Yeah, I agree that John had some zingers so this was his best performance. That "I'm not George Bush" comment was a game winner.

[PixelPusher]

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

I'll put on my Manny mask here to point out web polls don't count.

[SpursFanFirst]

CBS is for Obama. Shocking.

[JoeChalupa]

FoxNews will be salivating!!

[Cry Havoc]

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

"When engaged, he did rebut, he did respond."

- Analyst

This is right after both agreed that Obama performed better in this debate due to McCain's aggressiveness.

[Shelly]

Scheiffer rocks!
He should still be anchoring. :depressed

:tu

[PixelPusher]

Scheiffer rocks!
He should still be anchoring. :depressed

agreed.

[JoeChalupa]

Obama didn't get whupped or anything but this wasn't his best performance.

[JoeChalupa]

Juan Williams thinks Obama did well.

[ElNono]

I only saw the last 30 minutes, and it looked more of the same... did I miss much?

[CuckingFunt]

agreed.

I agree with this agreed.

[JoeChalupa]

Billy Cristol says.....McCain didn't get his message across well enough...not a Victory for McCain.

[jochhejaam]

The public education system isn't ever going to be cleaned up until people stop thinking of it as a system that isn't ever going to be cleaned up.

If you have a remedy for making lazy parents care about there children's education, I'm all ears, other than that, the kids don't have much of a chance.

[ElNono]

You guys think this was a slam dunk for McCain? Because that's exactly what he needed

[JoeChalupa]

I only saw the last 30 minutes, and it looked more of the same... did I miss much?

Just two guys talking to joe.

[boutons_]

McBottomGun was way too emotional, not a passion, but anger, aggression.

[SpursFanFirst]

I agree with this agreed.

:lol

[JoeChalupa]

Scheiffer rocks!
He should still be anchoring. :depressed

I concur. Job well done.

[jochhejaam]

You guys think this was a slam dunk for McCain? Because that's exactly what he needed

He did well, but it was far from being a slam dunk

[SpursFanFirst]

This is the first debate where I really feel like McCain won.

[Shelly]

If you have a remedy for making lazy parents care about there children's education, I'm all ears, other than that, the kids don't have much of a chance.

Sadly, this is so true

[Cry Havoc]

Both candidates get a C- from me.

Obama was a little too passive, albeit calm... that's his game plan.

McCain was far too aggressive, and is becoming more so.

Neither really addressed the issues. Neither showed much true American spirit.

McCain's best performance, but still both looked shoddy and with too much contrivance in what they were stating.

[dg7md]

Obama was very calm through the entire thing, unlike McCain, so I feel McCain's offensive attacks were balanced out by Obama being very smooth.

[Shelly]

Just two guys talking to joe.

Too bad we didn't get a Joe Chalupa mention!

[JoeChalupa]

Fred Barnes thinks Obama handled himself very well and....I'm surprised that the FoxNews pundits are not giving more praise on McCain's performance...I really am.

[SpursFanFirst]

The panel on CBS is leaning more toward McCain.
It's interesting listening to their reasons, and hearing what each person finds to be most important.

[Wild Cobra]

The problems with inner city public education are the teacher unions and a major lack of parental involvement and responsibility. I don't see how either can be fixed.

That's the problem that others want to get away from.



Vouchers won't help that much if the Parents don't give a darn, same with Charter Schools, great concept, but you still can't force the parents to care.

Vouchers will help, so will charter schools. They can set standards, and if the students and parents don't meet certain goals, guess what. Back to public schools. With vouchers, parents can pay most or all the way with them to a private school. They still have to qualify for entrance. Today, the schools support the least common denominator, dragging all kids down in the process. Parents and students that care and excel better.

[JoeChalupa]

The FoxNews watching party are giving it to Obama.

[JoeChalupa]

The panel on CBS is leaning more toward McCain.
It's interesting listening to their reasons, and hearing what each person finds to be most important.

wow

[boutons_]

"true American spirit"

:lol WTF is that? :lol

[SpursFanFirst]

wow


It's a panel of voters, not talking heads.
I should clarify.

[Wild Cobra]

I only saw the last 30 minutes, and it looked more of the same... did I miss much?
I heard most of it. McCain definately did better, and Obama was speechless at one point. However, being televised, Obama is more charismatic. He will be deemed the winner.

[MannyIsGod]

So I got to listen to the last couple of answers on my drive home. Obama rambled on the abortion issue, but McCain was a tremendous dick on the education answer.

Thats all I got, I'm gonna have to reley on the objective people here and on the net since my view will be polluted by the time they replay it.

[ploto]

It is interesting to see the varied perspectives from people who watched more split screen-- the split screen really hurt McCain.

[Shelly]

I'M GIVING THE WIN TO...















JOE the PLUMBER


someone had to say it...

[tp2021]

I'M GIVING THE WIN TO...















JOE the PLUMBER


someone had to say it...

I think Brokaw said it, actually!

[JoeChalupa]

Anyone ha ve the cnn spin?

[Joe the plumber]

Needless to say....I'll be layin' some serious pipe tonight!!!

[MannyIsGod]

CNN focus group goes to Obama.

[lurker]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vb3qlc.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Needless to say....I'll be layin' some serious pipe tonight!!!

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vb3qlc.jpg

this is the shit that kills him.

[CuckingFunt]

If you have a remedy for making lazy parents care about there children's education, I'm all ears, other than that, the kids don't have much of a chance.

Because of the relatively recent dip in the quality of public schools, most parents have run to private/charter schools whenever possible. That means that the majority of a public school's population, especially in marginalized areas, are people who either have to be there, or don't care enough to be anywhere else. As a result, test scores dip, funding gets cut, problem gets worse.

If you make school a better experience for the students, though, with better teachers/better technology/art and music programs, then suddenly school becomes less of a drag and encouraging your kid(s) to take their education seriously is less of a struggle. Kids aren't inherently resistant to knowledge no matter how poor/otherwise disadvantaged they may be.

People treat the public school system like they do so many other things -- it suddenly, magically broke and can't be fixed, so it's time to move on to the next option.

[SpursFanFirst]

the panel is back on CBS.

[Shelly]

http://pinchmysalt.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sloppy-joe-for-web.jpg


^^^^ feels left out that he didn't get a mention :depressed

[JoeChalupa]

The CNN viewing party is giving it to Obama.

Soledad is so hot!!!

[possessed]

Anyone ha ve the cnn spin?

Unless there are senior citizens posting on these boards then nobody watched CNN.

[SloppyJoe]

http://pinchmysalt.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sloppy-joe-for-web.jpg


^^^^ feels left out that he didn't get a mention :depressed

+1 :cuss

[SpursFanFirst]

http://pinchmysalt.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sloppy-joe-for-web.jpg


^^^^ feels left out that he didn't get a mention :depressed



:lol I did NOT need to see that.
I just finished eating Mexican, and I feel like :vomit:

[PixelPusher]

http://pinchmysalt.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/sloppy-joe-for-web.jpg


^^^^ feels left out that he didn't get a mention :depressed
Great. Now I'll have Adam Sandler's "Lunch Lady" song stuck in my head all night.

"...sloppy joes...sloppy, sloppy joes...."

[JoeChalupa]

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

You live in Indiana right? Then you didn't eat Mexican. You ate some middle America crap.


Just saying.

[CuckingFunt]

I used to loooooooooooooove Manwich night.

[SpursFanFirst]

You live in Indiana right? Then you didn't eat Mexican. You ate some middle America crap.


Just saying.


I hear ya! I should have put it in quotes.

[JoeChalupa]

I used to loooooooooooooove Manwich night.

+ 1 I remember those.

[Kori Ellis]

this is the shit that kills him.

I agree. The rolling eyes/smirking thing really really turns people off. I tried to like him in this debate and I couldn't. He got in a few good zingers. But at one point I thought he was going crazy in front of our eyes.

I don't think he did horribly or anything, but I don't think he did enough to sway many people his direction.

[SpursFanFirst]

CBS Instant Poll Winner.....

53% Obama
22% McCain

[MannyIsGod]

I agree. The rolling eyes/smirking thing really really turns people off. I tried to like him in this debate and I couldn't. He got in a few good zingers. But at one point I thought he was going crazy in front of our eyes.

I don't think he did horribly or anything, but I don't think he did enough to sway many people his direction.

From what I'm hearing/reading it sounds like he probably would have won the debate but I'll bet money that the polls come in favoring Obama because people react to those images more than some zinger. Body language is so huge in communicating that it just destroys him with the split screen TV images.

[Shelly]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h45/Kerbet/peanuts-joe-cool-4900436.jpg

^^^^too cool to care that he didn't get a mention, either

[SpursFanFirst]

:lmao JOE THE PLUMBER ON CBS!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

From what I'm hearing/reading it sounds like he probably would have won the debate but I'll bet money that the polls come in favoring Obama because people react to those images more than some zinger. Body language is so huge in communicating that it just destroys him with the split screen TV images.

That and he looks bat-shit crazy.

Just saying.

[MannyIsGod]

And right on cue




Fifty-three percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight's debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-four percent saw the debate as a draw.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/politics/horserace/main502163.shtml

cnn poll should be out shortly.

[PixelPusher]

LOL Joe the Plumber is on CBS right now

[SpursFanFirst]

Katie just cut Joe off! :wow

[Shelly]

What did JTP say?

[PixelPusher]

Bob Schieffer wouldn't have put Joe the Plumber on hold for commercials...

[SpursFanFirst]

What did JTP say?

he didn't have much of a chance to say anything.
Katie cut him off.
She said the rest of the interview would be on their webcast.

[dg7md]

The CNN viewing party is giving it to Obama.

Soledad is so hot!!!

Very nice Hilary support and interview as well!

[hitmanyr2k]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vb3qlc.jpg

You would think someone in his campaign would tell McCain to stop these kind of expressions (and the creepy used car salesman grin). He doesn't look presidential doing idiotic shit like that and it takes away from whatever message he's trying to convey. You would think after 2 debates where everyone is saying you look like a condescending, grumpy old man that McCain would have the sense to tone it down a notch.

[SpursFanFirst]

CBS was just messing with our emotions...putting Joe on the air only to pull the rug out from under us. :depressed

[florige]

From what I'm hearing/reading it sounds like he probably would have won the debate but I'll bet money that the polls come in favoring Obama because people react to those images more than some zinger. Body language is so huge in communicating that it just destroys him with the split screen TV images.



I heard something similiar to what you said on the radio. Saying that Obama comes off alot better on the television verses over the radio with his calm misdemeanor.

[MannyIsGod]

CNN poll

40 dem / 30 rep / 30 ind rough breakdown

58 - 31 Obama.

[Shelly]

he didn't have much of a chance to say anything.
Katie cut him off.
She said the rest of the interview would be on their webcast.

WTF???? Joe the Plumber shouldn't have been dissed like that. He WAS the debate

[Shelly]

I wonder if JTP will start making the talk show rounds

[dg7md]

CNN poll

40 dem / 30 rep / 30 ind rough breakdown

58 - 31 Obama.

Didn't they say that works with the general population too, with more democrats than repubs? So if that works with the numbers then, and with that big difference, the numbers are likely going to balance out to nearly the same lead Obama had before this debate.

[Joe the plumber]

I don't want to pay any more taxes but that Sarah girl worries me too.

[Joe the plumber]

I wonder if JTP will start making the talk show rounds

I wouldn't be American if I didn't.

[2centsworth]

CNN poll

40 dem / 30 rep / 30 ind rough breakdown

58 - 31 Obama.

cracks me up manny. ind aren't really ind. I don't doubt Obama has a substantial lead though. IN fact, it's over for McCain. He's just not articulate enough to overcome the advantages Obama has.

[CuckingFunt]

I heard something similiar to what you said on the radio. Saying that Obama comes off alot better on the television verses over the radio with his calm misdemeanor.

:lmao

[Shelly]

:lmao

Well, he is a cop!

[ElNono]

I wonder if JTP will start making the talk show rounds

Sarah says: You betcha!

[ploto]

The CNN numbers are amazing to say the least in support of Obama from this debate.

[tp2021]

C'mon guys. The Manu religion thread is over twice this size! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Didn't they say that works with the general population too, with more democrats than repubs? So if that works with the numbers then, and with that big difference, the numbers are likely going to balance out to nearly the same lead Obama had before this debate.

Depends on who's numbers you believe. Democrats have held a wide advantage but it has been narrowing (as it usually does although last time it was the GOP ahead) as the election comes up. Its slightly more than the national breakdown most pollsters use but the margin is so wide it doesn't matter.


cracks me up manny. ind aren't really ind. I don't doubt Obama has a substantial lead though. IN fact, it's over for McCain. He's just not articulate enough to overcome the advantages Obama has.

McCain would have a chance if he had an advantage to work with but he doesn't. Less money, weaker ground game, and he's not winning the debates so what exactly does he have to work with?

[ploto]

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

CNN: 58-31 for Obama

[ElNono]

C'mon guys. The Manu religion thread is over twice this size! :lol

The sizes of these debate threads show how weak they have been...

[JoeChalupa]

Yeah, Sean insHannity is all over McCain's ass saying how he kicked ass.,

[JoeChalupa]

The sizes of these debate threads show how weak they have been...

So I guess for you....size matters?

[MannyIsGod]

I'll eat crow if the polls say Obama won this debate.

You suck as a debate analyzer.

[ploto]

CNN Contributor David Gergen

John McCain had a very strong start in the first 30 minutes or so, and I thought that he was heading toward a debate victory — his first. But he veered off course in the middle as the conversation turned toward the negative quality of the campaign — and he became more and more the angry, older candidate, bringing back memories of the performance by Bob Dole back in 1996 that helped to doom his campaign. He also seemed to grow more tired over the course of the debate.

Barack Obama had a good first answer about his economic plan then seemed flat for the rest of the first half hour. But then things picked up for him. During the assaults by McCain, he kept his cool — he never took the bait (rumors were heavy before the debate that McCain would try to goad him into losing his steadiness). Coming out of that second half hour, Obama became much stronger in the last third of the debate, scoring extremely well on health care, education, abortion, and the Supreme Court.

McCain likely helped himself with his base tonight, but I doubt that he helped himself much with undecided voters.

Overall, I would score Obama at an A minus for the night, and McCain at a B plus.

It appears that Obama will come out of these debates with a general public perception that he has won three in a row.

PS: A hearty salute to tonight's moderator, Bob Schieffer, he deserves an A plus.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

[MannyIsGod]

Didn't they say that works with the general population too, with more democrats than repubs? So if that works with the numbers then, and with that big difference, the numbers are likely going to balance out to nearly the same lead Obama had before this debate.

Nate Silver on 538 responds to you! :lol


11:15 EDT: [Nate] I consider John King to be among most astute commentators out there, but he's a little bit out of line in critiquing his own poll, which he's said is skewed toward Democrats (the sample was something like D40, R30). It's skewed toward Democrats because America is skewed toward Democrats! The party ID split in the country right now is very close to 40/30. There's no doubt that Obama is going to find it a little bit easier to win these post-debate polls, simply because he has more support to begin with. But when he's winning every poll and every focus group by 2:1 margins, there are no excuses for McCain ... he's winning his base and just about nobody else.

11:04 EDT: [Nate] MediaCurves (http://mediacurves.com/) independents: Obama 60, McCain 30.

11:02 EDT: [Nate] CNN poll from the tee-vee: Obama 58, McCain 31.

11:00 EDT: [Nate] CBS undecideds (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml): Obama 53, McCain 22.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, out of that CNN poll Obama is imporantly winning those independents by around 20%. Thats substantial because even if you want to make the breakdown of the poll 30 dem 30 rep 40 ind Obama still crushes McCain.

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I really think the Bob Dole death rattle comments are going to come spewing forward in the last few weeks of this race.

[2centsworth]

McCain would have a chance if he had an advantage to work with but he doesn't. Less money, weaker ground game, and he's not winning the debates so what exactly does he have to work with?

Economy is in a recession which favors Obama. McCain isn't articulate enough to turn the tables. Money, ground game, etc... mean next to nothing IMO.

[TheMadHatter]

McCain seemed a bit flustered and anxious in comparison to Obama. Little things like this seem to make all the difference amongst the American people. Obama has consistently come across as more Presidential, more calm, more cool, and more level headed. I just didn't see anything in this debate that would make me believe the state of the race will change one way or the other.

The nation is roughly 50-40 for Obama right now. It will likely close a few points as it always does, but I expect Obama to end up with around a 5-6% pt victory in November.

[JoeChalupa]

It will be very interesting to see what kind of bump McCaing gains out of tonight. Or will he get a bump at all?

[JoeChalupa]

Soledad!!

[MannyIsGod]

I doubt he gets a bump. In fact I'm 99% sure he doesn't get a bump considering the polls and focus groups are saying he lost.

How did the Luntz Fox focus group go?

[CubanMustGo]

It will be very interesting to see what kind of bump McCaing gains out of tonight. Or will he get a bump at all?

With the snap polls giving Obama a 2:1 edge it's hard to think McC will get any bump.

[MannyIsGod]

And Joe, I too think Soledad is extremely good looking.

[florige]

:lmao


Well, he is a cop!



I should have just left it at calm....:lol Thanks alot Funt....:p:

[JoeChalupa]

And Joe, I too think Soledad is extremely good looking.

I'd bump it!!

[JoeChalupa]

I doubt he gets a bump. In fact I'm 99% sure he doesn't get a bump considering the polls and focus groups are saying he lost.

How did the Luntz Fox focus group go?

No bump? Then he must have done worse than I think he did.

[JoeChalupa]

Well Pat Buchanan is getting ready to come on MSNBC with in the tank Keith Olberman. Is it live? I'm buzzin' and I like Buchanan's views. I don't know what it is...but I like the guy.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm also getting ready to eat some all American bi-partisan chili dogs to add some toughness to my six-pack. And you don't have to be a plumber to lay that pipe baby!!
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[timvp]

First off, props to Schieffer. Great job moderating. Much better than the first two debates. He didn't give the candidates free rein to ramble about whatever they wanted. He actually made each candidate venture outside of their talking points which is incredibility difficult when you are dealing with a career politician on one hand and a world class lawyer on the other hand.

I think Obama is going to come out ahead as the winner of the debate. Not because he won the war of words but because he came across as more presidential. He did a good job of keeping his cool and not doing anything too risky. He has a lead to play with and it's obvious when seeing his debate gameplan. He was playing defense against McCain and did a pretty good job of it but he wasn't quite as effective as he was in the second debate.

McCain did a really good job. He's not going to do much better than that. For a guy who is old, disfigured and really damn awkward, I think he drove in most of the points he needed to make. I doubt it's enough to climb the mountain but I don't think a McCain supporter could be disappointed by his performance. He stayed on the attack and got in some pretty good shots. He got heated at times and his body language wasn't good but that is just how McCain is. He's not going to change after 30 years in politics.

Personally, I lost some respect for Obama. I thought he was doing a fantastic job all throughout his campaign of staying above the fray. But in the debate instead of staying dignified and not getting dragged down into whining about he said, she said crap that insinuates racism and xenophobia, he let McCain lead him down into the gutter. For a segment of the debate, Obama played the woe-is-me card that totally goes against why I was comfortable voting for him.

I had been damn proud of Obama's dignity and his willingness to ignore the pettiness that those around him displayed but he didn't do that tonight. I'm a firm believer in thinking that all barriers in the United States can be overcome if you reach beyond. I thought Obama also held that belief and I hadn't seen anything to tell me otherwise. Until tonight :td

That said, playing the pity card won't hurt him -- it will in fact probably help him at the polls. But I can't say I'm not disappointed.

[Nbadan]

Kerry tried to stay above the fray too in 04 and we all see how well that worked out for him - I'm glad that Obama didn't take the GOP talking-points without fighting back, even if it was viewed by some as 'rolling in the gutter'....I want a President who's not fearful of facing his accessors and maybe even slinging a little mud himself...

[ducks]

I think cnn polls suck
they admit they polled more dem then republicans
but they do not repeat it




I think what might get obama in is his more money. he has 4-1 in adds.
thanks to foreignn money

[ducks]

Kerry tried to stay above the fray too in 04 and we all see how well that worked out for him - I'm glad that Obama didn't take the GOP talking-points without fighting back, even if it was viewed by some as 'rolling in the gutter'....I want a President who's not fearful of facing his accessors and maybe even slinging a little mud himself...

when did he take on his dem leaders?

he has no fucking guts

[Nbadan]

I think it's the issues....Obama has managed to use important issues like the war in Iraq and the economy against McCain....

[Nbadan]

when did he take on his dem leaders?

he has no fucking guts

Oh, progressives wanted Obama to be much more aggressive....but his strategy has worked out fairly well...

[Cry Havoc]

First off, props to Schieffer. Great job moderating. Much better than the first two debates. He didn't give the candidates free rein to ramble about whatever they wanted. He actually made each candidate venture outside of their talking points which is incredibility difficult when you are dealing with a career politician on one hand and a world class lawyer on the other hand.

I think Obama is going to come out ahead as the winner of the debate. Not because he won the war of words but because he came across as more presidential. He did a good job of keeping his cool and not doing anything too risky. He has a lead to play with and it's obvious when seeing his debate gameplan. He was playing defense against McCain and did a pretty good job of it but he wasn't quite as effective as he was in the second debate.

McCain did a really good job. He's not going to do much better than that. For a guy who is old, disfigured and really damn awkward, I think he drove in most of the points he needed to make. I doubt it's enough to climb the mountain but I don't think a McCain supporter could be disappointed by his performance. He stayed on the attack and got in some pretty good shots. He got heated at times and his body language wasn't good but that is just how McCain is. He's not going to change after 30 years in politics.

Personally, I lost some respect for Obama. I thought he was doing a fantastic job all throughout his campaign of staying above the fray. But in the debate instead of staying dignified and not getting dragged down into whining about he said, she said crap that insinuates racism and xenophobia, he let McCain lead him down into the gutter. For a segment of the debate, Obama played the woe-is-me card that totally goes against why I was comfortable voting for him.

I had been damn proud of Obama's dignity and his willingness to ignore the pettiness that those around him displayed but he didn't do that tonight. I'm a firm believer in thinking that all barriers in the United States can be overcome if you reach beyond. I thought Obama also held that belief and I hadn't seen anything to tell me otherwise. Until tonight :td

That said, playing the pity card won't hurt him -- it will in fact probably help him at the polls. But I can't say I'm not disappointed.

How was he playing the "woe-is-me" card? McCain started first by talking about how John Lewis had made a bunch of remarks that McCain feels are some of the "worst he's ever heard". At the same time, people at his own rallies are actually calling for the death of Obama. Obama simply responded to the comments that McCain directed at him.

The very question the moderator asked the two candidates was right in line with this kind of response. You're going to blame either one of them for talking about the point that the question asked? Amazing. Usually you lay into them for wandering off-topic.

[ElNono]

Like I said, I missed 2/3 of the debate, but at least for the question about the VP, I was actually surprised and pleased that Obama didn't take a hit on Palin. I thought McCain sounded like a grumpy old man when he was taking pot shots at Biden.

[ducks]

it would be intersting if both canditates had the same amount of money who would win

[ducks]

Like I said, I missed 2/3 of the debate, but at least for the question about the VP, I was actually surprised and pleased that Obama didn't take a hit on Palin. I thought McCain sounded like a grumpy old man when he was taking pot shots at Biden.

it was part of questions

biden was wrong on issues on irag
is it wrong to poitn that out

[Nbadan]

it would be intersting if both canditates had the same amount of money who would win

Money isn't a major factor, it's the issues....

[timvp]

How was he playing the "woe-is-me" card? McCain started first by talking about how John Lewis had made a bunch of remarks that McCain feels are some of the "worst he's ever heard". At the same time, people at his own rallies are actually calling for the death of Obama. Obama simply responded to the comments that McCain directed at him.

The very question the moderator asked the two candidates was right in line with this kind of response. You're going to blame either one of them for talking about the point that the question asked? Amazing. Usually you lay into them for wandering off-topic.Thanks for the standard partisan response. Very helpful.

I'll wait to get my hands on the transcript to point it out if you truly didn't hear it.

[Buddy Holly]

it was part of questions

biden was wrong on issues on irag
is it wrong to poitn that out

Anyone would be wrong in dealing with Irag.

It's a place that doesn't exist.

[01.20.09]

it would be intersting if both canditates had the same amount of money who would win

That is such an elitist statement.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You suck as a debate analyzer.

Dude this was Obama's worst debate by far. I don't like the idea of supporting a guy that can't come up with a calm witty remark to silence an old guy who is spewing lies and accusations to his face.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I don't know what it is..

rofl

[ElNono]

it was part of questions

biden was wrong on issues on irag
is it wrong to poitn that out

Not wrong at all. I just thought that Obama did a good job of answering in a positive manner, and that made McCain response to stand out as negative.
Anyways, just something I perceived at the time.

[Cry Havoc]

Thanks for the standard partisan response. Very helpful.

I'll wait to get my hands on the transcript to point it out if you truly didn't hear it.

Partisan? I didn't blame either of them. In fact, I defended McCain as well. They were asked a very pointed question about the nature of the attacks carried out by each party in the campaign. Would you have preferred they talk about the price of oil again as a response?

[Anti.Hero]

McCain did alright but too little too late.

He failed to mention how you can't cut taxes from people that don't pay taxes and how these tax cuts are really tax credits aka free checks to lazy fucking people from Joe the Plumber's hard work.



Oh well.

[01.20.09]

I think Obama should have been quicker with his answers like the first 2 debates. He was clearly playing defense and he should have stuck to his guns.

[TheMadHatter]

First off, props to Schieffer. Great job moderating. Much better than the first two debates. He didn't give the candidates free rein to ramble about whatever they wanted. He actually made each candidate venture outside of their talking points which is incredibility difficult when you are dealing with a career politician on one hand and a world class lawyer on the other hand.

I think Obama is going to come out ahead as the winner of the debate. Not because he won the war of words but because he came across as more presidential. He did a good job of keeping his cool and not doing anything too risky. He has a lead to play with and it's obvious when seeing his debate gameplan. He was playing defense against McCain and did a pretty good job of it but he wasn't quite as effective as he was in the second debate.

McCain did a really good job. He's not going to do much better than that. For a guy who is old, disfigured and really damn awkward, I think he drove in most of the points he needed to make. I doubt it's enough to climb the mountain but I don't think a McCain supporter could be disappointed by his performance. He stayed on the attack and got in some pretty good shots. He got heated at times and his body language wasn't good but that is just how McCain is. He's not going to change after 30 years in politics.

Personally, I lost some respect for Obama. I thought he was doing a fantastic job all throughout his campaign of staying above the fray. But in the debate instead of staying dignified and not getting dragged down into whining about he said, she said crap that insinuates racism and xenophobia, he let McCain lead him down into the gutter. For a segment of the debate, Obama played the woe-is-me card that totally goes against why I was comfortable voting for him.

I had been damn proud of Obama's dignity and his willingness to ignore the pettiness that those around him displayed but he didn't do that tonight. I'm a firm believer in thinking that all barriers in the United States can be overcome if you reach beyond. I thought Obama also held that belief and I hadn't seen anything to tell me otherwise. Until tonight :td

That said, playing the pity card won't hurt him -- it will in fact probably help him at the polls. But I can't say I'm not disappointed.

Sometimes I wonder what debates you are watching. Obama playing the pity card? Give me a break. I should have known not to read your post after you made the asinine claim that George W. Bush made a better President than either Gore or Kerry would have. You are a fucking moron.

The only person playing the "woe is me card" is McCain. When he said the only reason he went negative was because Obama wouldn't do townhall debates I damn near fell apart in laughter. What a joke. Obama had to respond to the Ayers attacks, he had to. If you want to know why see John Kerry and the Swiftboat attacks last election. If you let your opponent characterize you to the American public you will lose.

And no, contrary to your other asinine belief, believing you can overcome obstacles is sometimes NOT enough to break through racial barriers and obstacles in this country. There is no reason a black man should have to work harder for the same position than a white man would, and vice versa. We still have lots of work to do in this country to break down racial barriers.

[timvp]

Sometimes I wonder what debates you are watching. Obama playing the pity card? Give me a break. I should have known not to read your post after you made the asinine claim that George W. Bush made a better President than either Gore or Kerry would have. You are a fucking moron.

The only person playing the "woe is me card" is McCain. When he said the only reason he went negative was because Obama wouldn't do townhall debates I damn near fell apart in laughter. What a joke. Obama had to respond to the Ayers attacks, he had to. If you want to know why see John Kerry and the Swiftboat attacks last election. If you let your opponent characterize you to the American public you will lose.You are totally oblivious to what I'm referencing. Which is the most unsurprising event of the thread.

Mental midgets such as yourself make me wonder if I'm on the right side of the fence.


And no, contrary to your other asinine belief, believing you can overcome obstacles is sometimes NOT enough to break through racial barriers and obstacles in this country. There is no reason a black man should have to work harder for the same position than a white man would, and vice versa. We still have lots of work to do in this country to break down racial barriers.Says the 12-year-old white emo :rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

it would be intersting if both canditates had the same amount of money who would win

:lmao

Yeah it sucks now that the GOP isn't at the top of that pile, doesn't it? The tables have turned, suck on it.

[TheMadHatter]

You are totally oblivious to what I'm referencing. Which is the most unsurprising event of the thread.

Mental midgets such as yourself make me wonder if I'm on the right side of the fence.

Says the 12-year-old white emo :rolleyes

Says the fat white conservative from Texas. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Dude this was Obama's worst debate by far. I don't like the idea of supporting a guy that can't come up with a calm witty remark to silence an old guy who is spewing lies and accusations to his face.

You want the corner back who will go for the pick instead of the tackle when his team is up by 6 with 2 seconds on the clock. Obama is going to play it safe as hell and thats the smart thing to do.

[Kori Ellis]

Says the fat white conservative from Texas. :lmao

:lol @ thinking timvp is white or fat

(and he's voting for Obama, so he must not be that conservative)

[LaMarcus Bryant]

You are totally oblivious to what I'm referencing. Which is the most unsurprising event of the thread.

Mental midgets such as yourself make me wonder if I'm on the right side of the fence.

Says the 12-year-old white emo :rolleyes

timvp's intellectual elitist attitude sure does shine through when he blogs politically :lol

I don't think he played the woe is me card, but I can see how one would think that, and would lose respect for him if I think he did that.....but I lost respect for the guy because it sickens me that a minority candidate cannot even think about being half as sarcastic, pompous, and willing to lay down the hammer as McCain....the guy was huddling up in a little ball and hoping the old man just got tired. Which he did. But its the principle. He still has my vote so far, but I definitely like him less after this.

I understand its smart politics for any candidate ahead like Obama just to play it safe, but when a fucking candidate is sitting 2 feet from you and accusing you of this Ayers shit, and you explain it in a calm manner, then the old fuck interrupts you and basically makes the claim in another way and throws in an erroneous quip, the minority just sits there and smiles and look downwards, just waiting for it all to end? It angers me. Because I don't believe a white candidate would have taken that shit. And I believe it is possible to totally bitch slap McCain in that instance without looking like a barbarian. Even when theres a 3rd and 4th black president in this country they'll still never be able to lay down the gauntlet and say "Look, Senator McCain, I just replied to your phony claims, stop lying to the american people, show some decency"


BTW, looks like Obama did win, I was wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Timvp is a cracka.

[Anti.Hero]

:lmao

Yeah it sucks now that the GOP isn't at the top of that pile, doesn't it? The tables have turned, suck on it.

Tell me about it! I'm constantly checking my credit card statement for the dreaded $2300 Yes We Can Tax. :lol

[TheMadHatter]

:lol @ thinking timvp is white or fat

(and he's voting for Obama, so he must not be that conservative)

Holding his nose voting for Obama would be a better description :lmao

And he has stated on this forum that he believes George W. Bush was a better president than either Gore or Kerry would have been. That's not conservative or liberal, that's stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

Timvp listens to country music and sits around watching NASCAR with Joe The Plumber.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

You want the corner back who will go for the pick instead of the tackle when his team is up by 6 with 2 seconds on the clock. Obama is going to play it safe as hell and thats the smart thing to do.



I fully get this analogy, and agree with it fundamentally. But I refuse to believe any candidate other than Obama with only a 4-5 point lead would have sat there and taken another candidate pointing at him and all but saying he's supporting terrorists.
Hillary would have ripped that guys balls off, and rallied her party into a frenzy at the same time.

[Kori Ellis]

Holding his nose voting for Obama would be a better description :lmao
Along with a big group of Americans. The majority of the country doesn't really agree with McCain or Obama. They are just picking who they think will suck the least.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Along with a big group of Americans. The majority of the country doesn't really agree with McCain or Obama. They are just picking who they think will suck the least.

Ehhh that's pretty much every election in modern history pleeze.

[Kori Ellis]

Ehhh that's pretty much every election in modern history pleeze.
I agree.

[timvp]

Holding his nose voting for Obama would be a better description :lmao

And he has stated on this forum that he believes George W. Bush was a better president than either Gore or Kerry would have been. That's not conservative or liberal, that's stupid.

Just tell people why you are really mad at me. I outed you as SpursDynasty/JeffDrums and you got so enraged that you switched screen names. Now you've made it your mission to follow me around and cry at each of my posts.

I mean, it doesn't bother me that you tail behind me but since it's the political season, you should offer a full disclosure.

Oh and I may be fat and white but at least I'm not 12 :downspin:

[LaMarcus Bryant]

timvp's the fattest white guy this side of Tpark.

[TheMadHatter]

Playing the angry black man doesn't work in Obama's favor. He has to remain calm, cool, and collected because that is the only way white people will vote for him.

And if the Ayers attacks had sticking power he would address them more forcefully. But the polls are showing people by and large don't care. So Obama addresses them with the importance that they deserve, dismisses the attacks swiftly and carries on with his economic message. I continue to be impressed with how Obama has run his campaign and he continues to make strategic move after move to put himself in a commanding position with the election drawing to a close. He defeated the Clintons, he will bring the GOP to its knees, and he might just give the Democrats a 60 seat majority in the Senate.

By all accounts Obama has delivered for the Democratic Party. He was the candidate that should have been running 4 years ago, the candidate people have waited 8 years for from the Democratic Party.

[Nbadan]

Along with a big group of Americans. The majority of the country doesn't really agree with McCain or Obama. They are just picking who they think will suck the least.

If that were true there would be a independent candidate with a influential size of the 'voting majority' you speak of or lots of people not registering to vote...while it may be true that most people don't believe in every issue Obama or McCain believes in, a majority of American's probably agree with important issues they believe in...

[Nbadan]

timvp's the fattest white guy this side of Tpark.

I have it from a good source that he's a richer too...

[cool hand]

McCain did alright but too little too late.

He failed to mention how you can't cut taxes from people that don't pay taxes and how these tax cuts are really tax credits aka free checks to lazy fucking people from Joe the Plumber's hard work.



Oh well.

free checks? you mean like the bush rebate check/tax cut/stimulus thing?

[TheMadHatter]

Just tell people why you are really mad at me. I outed you as SpursDynasty/JeffDrums and you got so enraged that you switched screen names. Now you've made it your mission to follow me around and cry at each of my posts.

I mean, it doesn't bother me that you tail behind me but since it's the political season, you should offer a full disclosure.

Oh and I may be fat and white but at least I'm not 12 :downspin:

You may not be fat or white, but you're still an idiot and fully incapable of basic reading comprehension.


Dazed and Confused isn't Spurs Dynasty/Jeff Drumms/Whatever.


I'm having a hard time believing you aren't a Republican. You certainly seem to buy into the belief that you can repeat a lie often enough and eventually people will accept it as the truth.

And I'm sure you'll now disappear from this thread like the coward you are after being made a complete fool of.

[Kori Ellis]

I have it from a good source that he's a richer too...

Is timvp over $250K a year rich? Because that's not showing up in our bank account.

[Nbadan]

...whatever, it's not cool to out people's aliases just because you can..

[Kori Ellis]

You may not be fat or white, but you're still an idiot and fully incapable of basic reading comprehension.

LOL @ You using my quote to defend yourself. Just two weeks ago you were crying on PM to me saying that I didn't stand up for you on the SpursDynasty issue and I had to point out that same quote to you.

[Nbadan]

Is timvp over $250K a year rich? Because that's not showing up in our bank account.

....well, there IS the fantasy leagues...

:lol

[timvp]

You may not be fat or white, but you're still an idiot and fully incapable of basic reading comprehension.What's wrong with being fat or white?


I'm having a hard time believing you aren't a Republican. You certainly seem to buy into the belief that you can repeat a lie often enough and eventually people will accept it as the truth.Or I could be someone who enjoys saying something that gets a rise out of the person each and every time I say it.

Or I could be someone who checks IP addresses :downspin:

[DarkReign]

McCain "won" the debate, but that wont make the election any closer.

[Kori Ellis]

....well, there IS the fantasy leagues...

:lol

Okay, I was just checking. Because we might be richers but we aren't quite T Park-rich.

[Nbadan]

dude...that like sooooooooooo yesterday...

[timvp]

...whatever, it's not cool to out people's aliases just because you can..
Is it cool to out someone's alias if that's not really their alias?

[Nbadan]

Okay, I was just checking. Because we might be richers but we aren't quite T Park-rich.

T-Park isn't 'rich'...

[Nbadan]

Is it cool to out someone's alias if that's not really their alias?

With all due respect, and I do respect you and Kori lots....you should never play that card either way...

[timvp]

TheMadHatter isn't too horrible of a poster. Of course he's a Laker Fan so I can't befriend him but he has potential. A little emotional but that usually works itself out . . .

[timvp]

With all due respect, and I do respect you and Kori lots....you should never play that card either way...Damn, I can't even make guesses like everyone else :depressed

[Nbadan]

nah.........your the owner of the board.....you gotta be above us sometimes and show us the ways of the master...

[TheMadHatter]

Hmm....so instead of debating with me on the issues you resort to "outing" my aliases as a way to discredit me even though your own wife disputed those same claims several months ago? Now that is some irony.

And you guys are supposed to be the moderators? Outing people's aliases is now common practice? I dunno, if I were running a forum that would be out of bounds for anyone, including moderators, unless in extreme cases where it's clearly warranted. Not when you have a disagreement with someone and can't defend yourself on the merits of your argument.

Of course you will not address this claim directly. You'll deflect and likely ban me or delete my posts like you have in the past. I guess SpursTalk is only different from other forums when you don't disagree with the moderators :lmao

[Nbadan]

...settle down Francis....your secret is safe.

[timvp]

But anyways, back to the debate, Obama will come out the winner in the debate polls and he has the election on lock. He wasn't quite as flawless as he was in debate #2 but he was pretty damn good.

Unless something crazy happens, Obama is going to be the next POTUS. I look forward to the next four years and hopefully he can make us proud.

[TheMadHatter]

But anyways, back to the debate, Obama will come out the winner in the debate polls and he has the election on lock. He wasn't quite as flawless as he was in debate #2 but he was pretty damn good.

Unless something crazy happens, Obama is going to be the next POTUS. I look forward to the next four years and hopefully he can make us proud.

Like I said. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Private messages are supposed to be private. It's really callous and low class to put them on display for the forum to see. It just shows how weak your argument is when you must stoop to that level.

[Nbadan]

But anyways, back to the debate, Obama will come out the winner in the debate polls and he has the election on lock. He wasn't quite as flawless as he was in debate #2 but he was pretty damn good.

Unless something crazy happens, Obama is going to be the next POTUS. I look forward to the next four years and hopefully he can make us proud.

eh...can't be any worse than the last eight...

[Kori Ellis]

Hmm....so instead of debating with me on the issues you resort to "outing" my aliases as a way to discredit me even though your own wife disputed those same claims several months ago? Now that is some irony.

And you guys are supposed to be the moderators? Outing people's aliases is now common practice? I dunno, if I were running a forum that would be out of bounds for anyone, including moderators, unless in extreme cases where it's clearly warranted. Not when you have a disagreement with someone and can't defend yourself on the merits of your argument.

No, we aren't "supposed to be the moderators." We are the owners. There's a difference.

timvp guessed who you were, just like everyone else did. He doesn't ever go looking up IP's unless there's a serious issue going on.

I confirmed that you weren't that person (by looking at the IP) because of so many people razzing you. I came to your defense and you still whined and complained to me via PM.

timvp doesn't get involved with the IP checking/banning/etc crap here. I usually handle it and I'm super lenient about most things. Just have some level of respect and you'll be fine.

[Nbadan]

Like I said. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Private messages are supposed to be private. It's really callous and low class to put them on display for the forum to see. It just shows how weak your argument is when you must stoop to that level.

Dude...let it go already...I'm on your side and sometimes, you just have to let go....

[Kori Ellis]

Like I said. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

Private messages are supposed to be private. It's really callous and low class to put them on display for the forum to see. It just shows how weak your argument is when you must stoop to that level.

What private messages were put on the forum for the world to see?

[hitmanyr2k]

Was John McCain on drugs tonight?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/TOYFLASHBACK/r1772410910.jpg

[Nbadan]

Was John McCain on drugs tonight?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/TOYFLASHBACK/r1772410910.jpg

Well, he is what 80? 100? ........so probably..........

[timvp]

Like I said. Deflect, deflect, deflect.Deflect what? I made a guess like everyone else at your alias. I apparently wasn't right. So what did you do? Make an alias.

Okay? Wipe away the tears and get over it. I've never outed you using anything other than straight up guesses. And if my attempt to "out" you wasn't right, I'm not sure that really counts as you getting outed :lol


Private messages are supposed to be private. It's really callous and low class to put them on display for the forum to see. It just shows how weak your argument is when you must stoop to that level.You've never PM'ed me.

[Anti.Hero]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/TOYFLASHBACK/r1772410910.jpg

lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Why would people care about being outed? Why the hell do you all make so many screen names anyway? Running behind a new screen name is so cowardly.

[baseline bum]

I liked Obama on health care and education. I liked McCain's plan for using nuclear energy and hope President Obama (knock on wood) will warm up to the idea.

[Anti.Hero]

http://i33.tinypic.com/2vb3qlc.jpg

lmao people are fast.

I was thinking "that's a gif" as soon as he did that. Damn internet age.

[Anti.Hero]

I liked Obama on health care and education. I liked McCain's plan for using nuclear energy and hope President Obama (knock on wood) will warm up to the idea.

Just hope BO doesn't get shot b/c then we can't have clean coal.




I'm referring to Biden saying Amerika is too good for clean coal for those that shelter themselves from such information.

[hitmanyr2k]

I missed when this happened. WTF is going on here? :lol Did McCain suddenly get a bad case of gas or what?

http://i37.tinypic.com/s6qir4.jpg

[Xylus]

One heartbeat away...

[Nbadan]

well, it's all a part of free speech....a lot of people don't wanna get into squabbles with their fellow Spur fans ...but wanna debate over sensitive topics in the P.F. so they create 'aliases'...it's all good, but don't play this 'If McCain doesn't win this will be my last post in the PF bullshit' unless your willing to give up all the rest of your aliases in other forums too...

[Anti.Hero]

He was trying to shake hands with the moderater and did his cheesy fake acting when they kept going different directions around the table at the end.

[Nbadan]

One heartbeat away...

Scary isn't it?

[baseline bum]

One heartbeat away...

:lol :wow

:pctoss

Too bad he didn't pick Ron Paul as his VP.

[cool hand]

He was trying to shake hands with the moderater and did his cheesy fake acting when they kept going different directions around the table at the end.

weird

[MannyIsGod]

I liked Obama on health care and education. I liked McCain's plan for using nuclear energy and hope President Obama (knock on wood) will warm up to the idea.

We really need nuclear energy back in this country.

[Nbadan]

We really need nuclear energy back in this country.

How much uranium does the U.S. produce again? and how would that make us not dependent on foreign sources?

[MannyIsGod]

He was trying to shake hands with the moderater and did his cheesy fake acting when they kept going different directions around the table at the end.

Did you see the handshake with Barack at the end? So fake on his part.

[MannyIsGod]

How much uranium does the U.S. produce again? and how would that make us not dependent on foreign sources?

:lmao This is seriously the angle you're going to take in regards to why we should avoid nuclear energy? Because this is rather retarded.

[Anti.Hero]

Did you see the handshake with Barack at the end? So fake on his part.

nah. It was a good job. Good job. Good Job. GOOOOD JOB!!!111

[boutons_]

Hey Manny

“The United States is dependent on Russia for a significant portion of [its] nuclear energy. I don’t think a lot of Americans know that.”

—Robert Ebel, Center for Strategic and International Studies

http://www.cfr.org/publication/14705/global_uranium_supply_and_demand.html

[MannyIsGod]

NEVERMIND - this is from a different link, not yours.


In the very long term, breeder reactors will be used. These get about 100 times as much energy from a kilogram of uranium as do present reactors. This makes the present stock of uranium go much farther. Indeed all the enriched uranium used in nuclear reactors and all the U-235 used in nuclear weapons has been separated from U-238, and the leftover U-238 is still available. If this U-238 were used to generate energy in breeder reactors and the electricity were sold at present prices, the present American stock of depleted uranium would generate $20 trillion worth of electricity. [Doubtless this number has changed one way or the other since the above was first written. I haven't time to keep updating it.

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/nuclear-faq.html

[Cry Havoc]

We really need nuclear energy back in this country.

+1

[MannyIsGod]

Surplus highly-enriched uranium (HEU), left over at the end of the Cold War, led the United States and Russia to a 1993 agreement (http://www.usec.com/v2001_02/HTML/Megatons_history.asp)—known as Megatons to Megawatts —to turn their weapons-grade material from warheads into nuclear fuel for use in commercial reactors through 2013. Under the agreement, five hundred tons of Russian HEU, equal to about twenty thousand nuclear warheads, was to be “down blended” in Russia with feedstock uranium or low-enriched uranium into about fifteen thousand tons of nuclear fuel that would be shipped to U.S. utilities through the United States Enrichment Corporation (USEC), a nongovernment entity.
As of 2006, about 275 tons of HEU, equal to about thirteen thousand warheads, has been turned into about eight thousand tons of fuel for which the Russian government received more than $5 billion. According to the World Nuclear Association, the military materials supply about 50 percent of U.S. reactor fuel or 13 percent of the world’s total fuel requirements. “The United States is dependent on Russia for a significant portion of [its] nuclear energy. I don’t think a lot of Americans know that,” said Robert E. Ebel (http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_experts/task,view/id,168/,) a nuclear analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.


Next time don't just post the quote, post it in context. WHY are we dependent on Russia? Because it was a use for leftover warhead material and the result of a downsizing of nuclear weapons stocks and an agreement between the US and Russia. NOT because we have to import from them.


Who is the largest producer of high grade Uranium ore boutons? Its in that link you provided.


Here, let me help you





Close to five million tons of naturally occurring uranium is known to be recoverable. Australia leads with more than one million tons (about 24 percent of the world’s known supply), followed by Kazakhstan, with over 800,000 tons or 17 percent of known supplies. Canada’s supplies are slightly less than 10 percent of the world’s total, while the United States and South Africa have about 7 percent each.
In a 2006 background paper (PDF) (http://www.energywatchgroup.org/fileadmin/global/pdf/EWG_Uraniumreport_12-2006.pdf), the German research organization Energy Watch Group notes the overall amount of uranium is less important than the grade of uranium ore. The less uranium in the ore, the higher the overall processing costs will be for the amount obtained. The group contends that worldwide rankings mean little, then, when one considers that only Canada has a significant amount of ore above 1 percent—up to about 20 percent of the country’s total reserves. In Australia, on the other hand, some 90 percent of uranium has a grade of less than 0.06 percent. Much of Kazakhstan’s ore is less than 0.1 percent.


Gee, such an unsafe source for the US.

[timvp]

I mean, look, if we want to talk about Congressman Lewis, who is an American hero, he, unprompted by my campaign, without my campaign's awareness, made a statement that he was troubled with what he was hearing at some of the rallies that your running mate was holding, in which all the Republican reports indicated were shouting, when my name came up, things like "terrorist" and "kill him," and that you're running mate didn't mention, didn't stop, didn't say "Hold on a second, that's kind of out of line."This is the section of the debate I was talking about earlier. Obama was doing a masterful job of defending himself while throwing out a few nice barbs of his own. But then all of a sudden he turned into Keith Olbermann playing the self woe-is-me card. I thought he could have gotten the exact same message across without trying to score sympathy points by just taking out the bold section.

Obviously those comments at the rallies were totally uncalled for but why even give those stupid comments even more legs? Obama wasn't defending himself or refuting something McCain said. He had successfully tackled the John Lewis drama but decided to milk it just a bit too much for my taste. Instead of sounding presidential, he sounded like some emotional blowhard like Jesse Jackson for a second.

But like I said, that was a personal critique. It won't make a ripple anywhere. Maybe no one else will agree with me, so it's not a big deal. Obama still won the debate and is the overwhelming favorite to win the election. Hopefully this is the last time Obama goes down that woe-is-me road and continues to be the strong leader I think he can be.

[whottt]

I have no idea what people are smoking but McCain destroyed Obama in this debate....destroyed him. One of the most one sided debates I have ever seen.


Libs are going to think Obama won...conservatives are pissed at some of McCain left leaning policies...as a moderate, he was pure gold tonight...every word.


Obama did not say anything substantial...but then he never does and still gets propped unjustly for it.

I predict this debate will show up in the polls.


Honestly...the only reason to vote for Obama is his race. There's nothing else of substance to him and everything he says is naive or clueless.

[whottt]

This is the section of the debate I was talking about earlier. Obama was doing a masterful job of defending himself while throwing out a few nice barbs of his own. But then all of a sudden he turned into Keith Olbermann playing the self woe-is-me card. I thought he could have gotten the exact same message across without trying to score sympathy points by just taking out the bold section.

Obviously those comments at the rallies were totally uncalled for but why even give those stupid comments even more legs? Obama wasn't defending himself or refuting something McCain said. He had successfully tackled the John Lewis drama but decided to milk it just a bit too much for my taste. Instead of sounding presidential, he sounded like some emotional blowhard like Jesse Jackson for a second.

But like I said, that was a personal critique. It won't make a ripple anywhere. Maybe no one else will agree with me, so it's not a big deal. Obama still won the debate and is the overwhelming favorite to win the election. Hopefully this is the last time Obama goes down that woe-is-me road and continues to be the strong leader I think he can be.



Obama supporters are wearing shirts that say Palin is a Cunt.

[timvp]

Honestly...the only reason to vote for Obama is his race. There's nothing else of substance to him and everything he says is naive or clueless.


http://brainmind.com/images/AtomicBomb44.jpg

[BRHornet45]

son you have to understand that these Obama sheep will NEVER go against their Lord regardless of any situation. He is their heavenly father ... their chosen one ... the almighty Lord Barack Hussein Obama. you have to understand that Lord Barack is worshiped more than any other political figure in U.S. history. these devoted, loyal sheep known as liberal democrats have long been awaiting a Messiah that they can rely on to make them happy ... Lord Barack Hussein Obama has answered their call.

[MannyIsGod]

I have no idea what people are smoking but McCain destroyed Obama in this debate....destroyed him. One of the most one sided debates I have ever seen.


Libs are going to think Obama won...conservatives are pissed at some of McCain left leaning policies...as a moderate, he was pure gold tonight...every word.


Obama did not say anything substantial...but then he never does and still gets propped unjustly for it.

I predict this debate will show up in the polls.


Honestly...the only reason to vote for Obama is his race. There's nothing else of substance to him and everything he says is naive or clueless.

The same polls you discredit every chance you get?

[whottt]

LOL whatever makes you feel better man...this debate was more one sided than any others in this election or any in 2000 or 2004.

[ElNono]

Honestly...the only reason to vote for Obama is his race. There's nothing else of substance to him and everything he says is naive or clueless.

You don't seem to have a problem voting for Palin who is at least 10x more clueless...

[jochhejaam]

Because of the relatively recent dip in the quality of public schools, most parents have run to private/charter schools whenever possible. That means that the majority of a public school's population, especially in marginalized areas, are people who either have to be there, or don't care enough to be anywhere else. As a result, test scores dip, funding gets cut, problem gets worse.
Do you teach at a Public School? My wife teaches in a Charter School, and her friend that teaches at an inner city Public School told her that her Charter School was getting all of the problem kids from their Schools (read: lazy, uninvolved, often uneducated parents in the Public Schools blamed the Teachers in the Public Schools for their childs failing grades, and believe that a change in Schools, not a change in their lazy ways, is the answer to their childs problems), they're not getting the cream of the crop from the Public Schools, if the kids are doing well in the Public Schools, why should they pull them and send them to a Charter School?
Test scores in the Public Schools were already anemic, and have been for the past 30 or so years, it's not a problem that's just cropped up.
The cut funding is a direct result of a failed education system, much of the blame goes to the Parents, but the teachers share a part of the blame. If their not getting an education, their funding should be cut (funding per pupil has been steadily rising, something around $8,800 per, and the grades don't improve, so more money is not the problem).





Kids aren't inherently resistant to knowledge no matter how poor/otherwise disadvantaged they may be.
There are mega distractions for kids and a formal education can be tedious, put this combination together and you had better have a parent (ideally two), on top of their kids to ensure that they are staying on task, to the children's detriment, this is not happening!
Do you have a solution for these parents? If not, you have no viable solution to the education problem.





People treat the public school system like they do so many other things -- it suddenly, magically broke and can't be fixed, so it's time to move on to the next option.

It's been broke for decades and needs to be totally revamped, but regardless of how qualified the teachers are, or how much money is thrown at the problem, that doesn't solve the major problem, lazy, uninvolved, uncaring parents, that's out of the Governments control.

[SpursFanFirst]

Libs are going to think Obama won...conservatives are pissed at some of McCain left leaning policies...as a moderate, he was pure gold tonight...every word.

My Dad and I were just talking about this.

I actually think McCain won this debate, but my Dad was furious with his showing.

It had nothing to do with his policies. Rather, he felt like McCain had Obama on the ropes several times, but didn't follow through.
My Dad also felt like Scheiffer helped McCain out at times, but McCain didn't capitalize on it.

[whottt]

The same polls you discredit every chance you get?



The same polls I claim are heavily weighted in favor of Obama.

[BRHornet45]

The same polls I claim are heavily weighted in favor of Obama.

sons the polls don't mean shit! anyone who follows them and thinks that they are a guaranteed outcome for Nov 4 is a damn fool! (see elections 2000 and 2004)