Joe the Plumber

[Findog]

Is he deciding this thing? Wasn't this a bad Kevin Costner movie?

[DarrinS]

Coming soon...

Internet rumor that Joe the Plumber is a Fox News plant.

[101A]

Joe the Plumber, it is reported today in the NYT, is the infamous McCain supporter who yelled "Kill Him" at a rally in Fla. Joe the Plumber, it is also reported, is a former top executive of AIG, hired from Lehman Brothers; and is actually not a plumber at all, but an out of work investment banker.

"Joe the Plumber kicks puppies for fun" Lead story on the CBS evening news.

[Findog]

Is the most heart-wrenching story McCain could come up with is a plumber making $250K a year? So progressive taxation = socialism? Wow, that's news to me.

Under Obama's plan, he would go from paying 36% of his income in taxes to 39%. But why isn't McCain cutting his taxes down from that 36%? That 36% is socialist bullshit!

[Findog]

How does a plumber make $250K a year anyway?

Anecdotal, from a 538 thread:


As I said above my father owns a small business and is a plumbing contractor. SD is non-union so salaries are lower, but you are looking at 45K per year maximum for a plumbing foreman. 250K you would have to charge $400+ and hour to sustain. There is no way this guy is simply a "plumber". He has to be in management.

[MannyIsGod]

I want to know if Joe is a registered voter. Rumor is he's not.

[DarrinS]

Joe the Plumber is really one of the Watergate "plumbers" and he is currently a consultant for ExxonMobile and Haliburton.

[DarrinS]

How does a plumber make $250K a year anyway?

Anecdotal, from a 538 thread:



Well, it's obviously not a one-man operation --- DUH!


I know someone who owns a janitorial company in San Antonio and his company pulls down about that.

[101A]

Is the most heart-wrenching story McCain could come up with is a plumber making $250K a year? So progressive taxation = socialism? Wow, that's news to me.

Under Obama's plan, he would go from paying 36% of his income in taxes to 39%. But why isn't McCain cutting his taxes down from that 36%? That 36% is socialist bullshit!

I don't think people call it Socialist; I think the proper term is "Wealth Redistribution". It's a term that many don't have a problem with, while others find it quite distasteful. In a Democracy, however, with every individual having self-interest, and by definition, the majority not considering themselves "wealthy"; it is inevitable.

[101A]

How does a plumber make $250K a year anyway?

Anecdotal, from a 538 thread:

Their PROBABLY isn't $250K profit; that's probably gross sales; although it isn't necessarily so.

Either way, he can keep he and his wive's SALARIES under 250K; AND keep his company's profits under 250K (meaning he has 499,999.99 to play with); to avoid the tax penalty. Then he'll ONLY have to pay 35% of HIS money to the govt. - to give to banks that have run THEIR business poorly - or to people who bought more house than they could afford - or to send to Iraq, or to some congressman's pork barrel project. Either way, it's money well spent.

[Joe the plumber]

I'm just your average joe trying to make a decent living who does not mind doing my part.

[DarrinS]

I'm just your average joe trying to make a decent living who does not mind doing my part.


LOL

[101A]

Seriously, liberals.

Listen to Biden in this video. He essentially is promising EVERYBODY except people who make over $250K, a free ride; no capital gains, tax cuts, etc. etc.....

Are you O.K. with that? Is paying taxes ONLY patriotic for the MOST succesful? Do you see this as sound fiscal policy? It really appears to be straight-on class warfare, and political pandering to me, and really makes my stomach churn.

j66LUroXUck

[JoeChalupa]

What I want to know is how does Jose the Landscaper feel about this.

[Findog]

Seriously, liberals.

Listen to Biden in this video. He essentially is promising EVERYBODY except people who make over $250K, a free ride; no capital gains, tax cuts, etc. etc.....

Are you O.K. with that? Is paying taxes ONLY patriotic for the MOST succesful? Do you see this as sound fiscal policy? It really appears to be straight-on class warfare, and political pandering to me, and really makes my stomach churn.

j66LUroXUck

It's called progressive taxation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

Progressive taxation is not communism or socialism. Joe the Plumber would see his tax rate go from 36% to 39% under Obama's plan. In other words, Joe the Plumber needs to get the fuck over himself. Cry me a river, Joe.

[Findog]

As my coworker said today, I don't give a fuck about Joe the Plumber, I'm looking out for Taylor the IT tech.

[Anti.Hero]

250k REVENUE.

Use your fucking heads people and remember cost of goods sold, operating costs, etc


ffs.



You idiots see 250k and you cry "rich rich rich" lmao


They have you trained well.

[Anti.Hero]

It's called progressive taxation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

Progressive taxation is not communism or socialism. Joe the Plumber would see his tax rate go from 36% to 39% under Obama's plan. In other words, Joe the Plumber needs to get the fuck over himself. Cry me a river, Joe.

Get the fuck over himself?

Man, that's some stupid shit. He's a business owner concerned with taxes. Run a business and see how it is or stfu.

He simply asked a question and got "I want to spread your wealth around" answer. It's not even about the tax perscentage increase. It's about the fucking idea that you work hard and the Obama wants to "spread your wealth" to others.


Libtards find it so easy to choose how to manage others money.

[possessed]

What I want to know is how does Jose the Landscaper feel about this.

Wetbacks can vote?

[DarrinS]

Wetbacks can vote?


F-you! Illegals, felons, and dead people have the right to vote -- MULTIPLE TIMES!


Sincerely,


ACORN

[JoeChalupa]

250k REVENUE.

Use your fucking heads people and remember cost of goods sold, operating costs, etc


ffs.



You idiots see 250k and you cry "rich rich rich" lmao


They have you trained well.

I'd take that 250K and not be bitching about it.

[mrsmaalox]

How does a plumber make $250K a year anyway?

Have you ever hired a plumber?!

[ChumpDumper]

Has he even bought his own business yet?

[Findog]

Get the fuck over himself?

His tax rate is going up by 3 percentage points. He's already in a higher tax bracket than me. Using his ephemeral logic, McCain should lower his taxes, not keep them static.



Man, that's some stupid shit. He's a business owner concerned with taxes. Run a business and see how it is or stfu.

And I'm a taxpayer myself that is unconcerned over his taxes going up marginally. If he wants to avoid Obama's tax bracket, he can pay his employees more so he doesn't reach that threshold.

[101A]

It's called progressive taxation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

Progressive taxation is not communism or socialism. Joe the Plumber would see his tax rate go from 36% to 39% under Obama's plan. In other words, Joe the Plumber needs to get the fuck over himself. Cry me a river, Joe.

Thanks for the civics lecture.

I'm not talking about the concept; I'm talking about the LANGUAGE of Biden. Do any of you care to talk about that.

Also, how progressive, is progressive enough? Anybody want to go out on a limb and present some hard numbers?

[nkdlunch]

250k REVENUE.

Use your fucking heads people and remember cost of goods sold, operating costs, etc


ffs.



You idiots see 250k and you cry "rich rich rich" lmao


They have you trained well.


Stop talking out of your ass. The 250k is for his personal income you nitwit. Not the business gross income. Research before talking trash. This is from ABC news:

Under Obama's plan, individuals making more than $200,000 per year, or couples making more than $250,000 per year, would pay higher taxes on income, capital gains, and dividends. Starting ten years from now, Obama supports an additional 2-4 percent tax on individual income above $250,000 per year to help shore up the Social Security system.

To evaluate how Wurzelbacher and his wife would fare under Obama, one would need to know his wife's income (if any) plus what the plumber meant when he told Obama that the company he is getting ready to buy "makes" $250,000 - $280,000 per year.

Was Wurzelbacher referring to gross revenue or net profits?

Obama's higher taxes on small businesses would be leveled against those whose net profits exceed $250,000 per year, according to Obama's campaign.

[nkdlunch]

so if he is taking home over $250k, then yes tax his rich ass.

Fuck these rich mofos!

[Findog]

Thanks for the civics lecture.

I'm not talking about the concept; I'm talking about the LANGUAGE of Biden. Do any of you care to talk about that.

Also, how progressive, is progressive enough? Anybody want to go out on a limb and present some hard numbers?

Is McCain advocating a flat income tax?

Thanks.

[lurker]

McCain wastes most of the debate talking about Joe, and the fool isn't even registered to vote. :lol

[101A]

Is McCain advocating a flat income tax?

Thanks.


Fail.

Not voting for McCain; on record as such.

Gonna answer the question?

[101A]

so if he is taking home over $250k, then yes tax his rich ass.

Fuck these rich mofos!

Those rich "mofos" should go Ayn Rand on your jealous ass.

[Findog]

Fail.

Not voting for McCain; on record as such.

Gonna answer the question?

If McCain isn't willing to support a flat tax, then his criticisms of Obama's tax policies ring hollow.

Do you support a flat tax?

[101A]

If McCain isn't willing to support a flat tax, then his criticisms of Obama's tax policies ring hollow.

Do you support a flat tax?

Yes.

(That's how you answer a question)

Now. How progressive is progressive enough?

Also, McCain said he didn't want to raise Joe's taxes "now" - during the crisis. See, McCain, some of us can pick up on your clever use of words, too.

There is very little difference between Obama's and McCain's policies; or Obama's and Bush's for that matter - Obama keeps all but 1 of Bush's HORRIBLE tax cuts as written. Really comical that both of these clowns sat there last night and told us all how differnt things were going to be, when they ain't really chaning nothing. Again, my major problem with the Obama/Biden campaign is the flat out class-warfare/jealousy angle w/in it.

[01.20.09]

Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,00o to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much much profit he would make from the firm.

He would make much less, he said.

[101A]

Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,00o to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much much profit he would make from the firm.

He would make much less, he said.

De ja fucking vu

[Findog]

Now. How progressive is progressive enough?

In an ideal world, I wouldn't want to tax Bill Gates more than 40% of his personal income, and I don't favor corporate taxes at all since they don't pay taxes, they just pass them on to their consumers. There's a lot of Obama's policies I don't agree with, but unlike McCain and Bush, I think he'll be a competent President.





Again, my major problem with the Obama/Biden campaign is the flat out class-warfare/jealousy angle w/in it

Fuck your concern with their "class warfare." When Moose Cunt can restrain herself from saying Obama and his supporters don't "see America" the way "hard-working Americans with heartland values" sees America, that will be the day I might be more sympathetic to your point.

[01.20.09]

Class-warfare??!!?? McCain and Palin want to keep it that way by saying Obama doesn't see things the way they do. Hypocrites.

[101A]

In an ideal world, I wouldn't want to tax Bill Gates more than 40% of his personal income, and I don't favor corporate taxes at all since they don't pay taxes, they just pass them on to their consumers. There's a lot of Obama's policies I don't agree with, but unlike McCain and Bush, I think he'll be a competent President.

Based on his proposals being very similar to Bush's - what makes you think that?




Fuck your concern with their "class warfare." When Moose Cunt can restrain herself from saying Obama and his supporters don't "see America" the way "hard-working Americans with heartland values" sees America, that will be the day I might be more sympathetic to your point.

Two wrongs make a right.

Got it.

Also, that is certainly a divisive statement by Palin; suggesting elitism vs. common folk; but it is not promising a payoff, or of, essentially, suggesting that somehow those other people should be punished for what they have, and what they have done; that is what I hear in Biden's voice, however.

[Findog]

Based on his proposals being very similar to Bush's - what makes you think that?



Which proposals would that be? Ending the War in Iraq, or not starting dumb wars in the first place? Not putting the regulatory agencies in the very hands of the people that are supposed to be regulated? Not stacking the SCOTUS with right-wing ideologues? Not raising spending and cutting taxes at the same time? Not appointing a horse jockey to head up FEMA?

I'm no Dummy, I know there is a wide range of agreement on many major policies between the two major parties. Obama is clearly the lesser of two evils.






Also, that is certainly a divisive statement by Palin

[hitmanyr2k]

Yes.

(That's how you answer a question)

Now. How progressive is progressive enough?

Also, McCain said he didn't want to raise Joe's taxes "now" - during the crisis. See, McCain, some of us can pick up on your clever use of words, too.

There is very little difference between Obama's and McCain's policies; or Obama's and Bush's for that matter - Obama keeps all but 1 of Bush's HORRIBLE tax cuts as written. Really comical that both of these clowns sat there last night and told us all how differnt things were going to be, when they ain't really chaning nothing. Again, my major problem with the Obama/Biden campaign is the flat out class-warfare/jealousy angle w/in it.

Why should anyone take your word on policy? You already got one policy wrong in this thread before someone called your dumbass out on it :lol

You really don't know shit and continue to talk out of your ass.

[Findog]

Joe doesn't like Social Security:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/237630.php

[monosylab1k]

I can't wait for the "Where are they now?" segment in five years, where they interview this guy along with Chris Crocker and the Chocolate Rain dude.

[ratm1221]

Joe doesn't like Social Security:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/237630.php

This guy better be really careful what he says in interviews. I'm not endorsing the shitty things the media can do to people, and I don't wish it on anyone but... The liberal media is going to shred this guy to pieces. :wow

[Findog]

The liberal media is going to shred this guy to pieces. :wow

They should leave the guy alone if they want Obama to win this election. Making Joe the Plumber a martyr is probably McCain's best shot. Just stop talking about him already....and I should probably take my own advice on that. It doesn't look good to beat up on a private citizen who hasn't really asked to enter the public spotlight.

[Gino]

Seems to me that everyone on this board is talking out of their ass.

Some posters are claiming that Joe doesn't have a personal income over 250k so he wouldn't be taxed, others are saying that his BUSINESS Tax would increase under Obama.

We dont know what Joe was talking about (personal or business tax), how much Joe's company makes, how much he takes home etc.

But the fact is millions of businesses have more than 250k in taxable income. Go to any restaurant and they'll tell you that their gross was probably close to two million, and then they'll tell you why theyre not making money due to expenses.

Im not how the government taxes profits businesses. If anyone has a good link, it would be appreciated.

[ChumpDumper]

Where did everyone get the idea that Joe already owned a plumbing business?

[Gino]

.

[ratm1221]

Where did everyone get the idea that Joe already owned a plumbing business?

I was talking about Joe Six Pack...... :depressed

[Hook Dem]

And now, Obama wants to talk about coconut creme pie.:rollin

[101A]

Which proposals would that be? Ending the War in Iraq, or not starting dumb wars in the first place? Not putting the regulatory agencies in the very hands of the people that are supposed to be regulated? Not stacking the SCOTUS with right-wing ideologues? Not raising spending and cutting taxes at the same time? Not appointing a horse jockey to head up FEMA?

I'm no Dummy, I know there is a wide range of agreement on many major policies between the two major parties. Obama is clearly the lesser of two evils.


Ending the war in Iraq?

I thought Obama was making the claim that Bush was stealing his ideas on that? Obama is claiming they have the same policy. He's gonna surge Afghanistan, and his tax policy is a near mirror image of Bush's. You, yourself said, It's only 3%, after all.

Hell, Obama's even getting a pass on not providing universal healthcare!

Sure, the faces will be different, and the "ideologies" appear different, but in actual policy; not much is gonna change.

[101A]

This guy better be really careful what he says in interviews. I'm not endorsing the shitty things the media can do to people, and I don't wish it on anyone but... The liberal media is going to shred this guy to pieces. :wow

Hell, up til now I was gonna waste my vote on Bob Barr.

I'm votin "Joe the Plumber"

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Nope, Joe's registered. Voted in the primaries, too.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Joes_registration.html

Sure it's been seen already, but it was nice to at least hear about the economy and other stuff that wasn't Wall Street during his little presser earlier today.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's called progressive taxation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

Progressive taxation is not communism or socialism. Joe the Plumber would see his tax rate go from 36% to 39% under Obama's plan. In other words, Joe the Plumber needs to get the fuck over himself. Cry me a river, Joe.

The 3% isn't the problem he has with it. It's the 40% of Americans who pay NO income tax at the present that are going to get handed a check from the government that is taken out of the wallets of the wealthier.

There's nothing progressive about that.

[JoeChalupa]

The 3% isn't the problem he has with it. It's the 40% of Americans who pay NO income tax at the present that are going to get handed a check from the government that is taken out of the wallets of the wealthier.

There's nothing progressive about that.

I can see that but if I"m in that tax bracket I've got enough money and happy that I'm in the tax bracket I am and living well. I know plenty of people in that tax bracket who are not bitching but rather enjoying the fruits of their labor.

[lurker]

Now it's being reported that Joe owes over $1000 in back taxes. lol, he's bitching about taxes that he doesn't even pay?

[01.20.09]

There's also a rumor that he's not even a licensed plumber. Not that it matters but we must know if he is being truthful to the American people.

[dg7md]

There's also a rumor that he's not even a licensed plumber. Not that it matters but we must know if he is being truthful to the American people.

Safe to say Joey was a maverick?

[Findog]

There's also a rumor that he's not even a licensed plumber. Not that it matters but we must know if he is being truthful to the American people.

Not saying he is, but he's starting to seem more and more like a plant. Also, the difference in taxes on income between $250,000 and $280,000 is $900 a year. Fuck him.

Obama's campaign would do well to steer clear of discussing Joe the Plumber anymore. McCain obviously wants to make him a martyr.

[Findog]

What I hate about people who whine about the progressive tax system is that when you move up to a higher tax rate, you’re still getting more money after taxes than if you had earned less and been taxed at a lower rate. It’s not like you’re getting LESS money.

[lurker]

Joe confirmed that he's not licensed.

[JoeChalupa]

I guess for some they measure success and happiness by take home pay?

[hater]

Mcain was thinking Joe the plumber is an average Joe. Looks like he's not. It would be funny if they find Joe's ex-girlfriends buried in his basement :lol

[PM5K]

This shit is too funny...

[101A]

What I hate about people who whine about the progressive tax system is that when you move up to a higher tax rate, you’re still getting more money after taxes than if you had earned less and been taxed at a lower rate. It’s not like you’re getting LESS money.

GET money?

EARN money.


It is no easier to earn dollar 1 than to earn dollar 300,000. The question is, do I want to work hard enough to earn 300,001, if I don't get to keep more than $.50 of it. Remember, the vast majority of Americans ALSO pay state income tax - and many have their own "progressions" - making the top marginal rate over 50%; then if Obama gets his way and adds to SS; well, you're getting into the 60% range real quick.

AND these are the people creating the jobs for the other schleps. If they cannot reap the rewards of their work and ingenuity, their is no incentive to grow their businesses, to hire more people.


I guess the concept gets lost as it passes through that vast envy screen you have in front of you.

[101A]

I guess for some they measure success and happiness by take home pay?

Your candidate is running an election based on it; hoping a good part of 95% do just that, isn't he?

[Findog]

I guess the concept gets lost as it passes through that vast envy screen you have in front of you.

I don't envy those making more than me. I'm just not going to weep for them that they get taxed at a slightly higher rate.

[101A]

I don't envy those making more than me. I'm just not going to weep for them that they get taxed at a slightly higher rate.

:lmao

39 vs., what do you pay, 15 - maybe?

"Slightly" Higher!!!

[Findog]

:lmao

39 vs., what do you pay, 15 - maybe?

"Slightly" Higher!!!

Yeah, I'm making $3.75 an hour. :rolleyes

[101A]

Yeah, I'm making $3.75 an hour. :rolleyes

So you pay no taxes?

BTW, you need to talk to a labor attorney about what minimum wage is now.

[BacktoBasics]

Getting taxed a higher rate shouldn't detour you from being motivated to earn more money. More money is still more money regardless of the few % points. Thats all the incentive you need.

[Findog]

So you pay no taxes?

BTW, you need to talk to a labor attorney about what minimum wage is now.

What I'm saying is that I really don't care about the whining and bitching of those in the highest tax brackets. They have all sorts of write-offs and loopholes they can take advantage of anyway.

:rolleyes

[101A]

Getting taxed a higher rate shouldn't detour you from being motivated to earn more money. More money is still more money regardless of the few % points. Thats all the incentive you need.

Bullshit.

If that extra money is earned in the 90th hour of work that week; at some point it is not worth it.

[101A]

RG,

You're bumping around here now; I've been wondering do you know how Obama's corporate tax rate change will affect an S-Corp? Their structure baffles me; and I know ownership is taxed entirely differently than that of a "C".

[Crookshanks]

What people are forgetting is that this democratic congress will let the Bush tax cuts expire. That alone means a TAX INCREASE FOR EVERYBODY!!!! Go find your 2000 tax return and find out what tax bracket you were in - then take that bracket and figure what your tax liability would be on your 2007 return - THAT'S what you can look forward to in an Obama presidency!

One guy figured his out and he would be paying $4,000 more in taxes! And he makes far LESS than $250,000. Obama is lying about his tax cuts.

Besides, if he raises taxes on corporations, do you think they'll just absorb that additional liability? No, they'll raise their prices or they'll not give pay raises or bonuses - or worse yet, they'll cut YOUR job to pay the additional taxes! What good is Obama's supposed tax cut if you're standing in the unemployment line!

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Also, those evil rich people will just maybe stop taking expensive vacations or buying luxury cars or 2nd homes; and maybe not go out to dinner as much or to the movies or theater - and who does that hurt? That's right - the "average" guy that Obama says he cares so much about.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Now it's being reported that Joe owes over $1000 in back taxes. lol, he's bitching about taxes that he doesn't even pay?

this is when I hate the media. why do they feel it necessary to dissect this guy's life? leave the dude alone already--all he did was ask a question!!

[Crookshanks]

this is when I hate the media. why do they feel it necessary to dissect this guy's life? leave the dude alone already--all he did was ask a question!!

Get used to it - this is what happens when you dare to question "The One". Just think what will happen to any dissenters if he's elected!

[ChumpDumper]

Get used to it - this is what happens when you dare to question "The One". Just think what will happen to any dissenters if he's elected!They'll get jobs with Fox and Clear Channel.

[101A]

They'll get jobs with Fox and Clear Channel.


Nah. Fox is just about on board, now. Did you not catch the post-debate discussion?

Oh, and after the Fairness Doctrine is passed, Clear Channel will cease to exist.

[Oh, Gee!!]

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters in the United States in 2007 was $47,350.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah. Fox is just about on board, now. Did you not catch the post-debate discussion?What, they thought Obama won the debate? Some things just can't be denied unless whottt starts a cable news company.


Oh, and after the Fairness Doctrine is passed, Clear Channel will cease to exist.It will be bigger than ever no matter what.

[Joe the plumber]

this is when I hate the media. why do they feel it necessary to dissect this guy's life? leave the dude alone already--all he did was ask a question!!

Hey, I don't mind the scrutiny. Does it really matter that I'm a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who"s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating"s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years. I'm just saying.

[clambake]

no plumbers license? he has a tax lien against him? so, he could be an out of work hairdresser. WC, was he planted by a certain party?

[Joe the plumber]

I'm no plant. Just your average joe.

[clambake]

I'm no plant. Just your average joe.

you should at least be able to spin your way out of that lien.

good luck, joe.

[ratm1221]

What's funny is that if this was the other way around and the guy was a liberal speaking out against the convervs, he would be in a lot bigger trouble right now. He'd already be scheduled for The Bill O'reilly show, so he could call him " A communist, jew, fag who probably urinates on the American Flag!"... "Let me finish, let me finish, I'm not finished! Now get the F off my show you hippie!"

http://billscontent.blogpeoria.com/files/2007/11/oreilly_the_finger.jpg

[Blake]

I like Bob the Builder myself.

[PM5K]

I like Bob the Builder myself.

Bob The Builder doesn't even have a contractors license, and he pays Muck under the table.

[bobbyjoe]

:lmao

39 vs., what do you pay, 15 - maybe?

"Slightly" Higher!!!

Warren Buffet has talked numerous times about the inequity that results when he pays a lower effective tax rate (17%) than his secretary. If one accepts that his premise is essentially true, Obama's policies aren't "redistribution of wealth" but basically creating a more flat, and thus fair tax system.

People in this thread and in the general public pay WAY, WAY too much attention to the absolute levels of marginal tax rates for ordinary income.

When you sort through the zoo of deductions, credits, loopholes, exemptions, tax avoidance opportunities, AMT, etc, you arrive at a final effective tax rate, which is in reality the true metric we should be looking at here.

The fact is that most high-net worth individuals derive the majority of their income from dividends and capital gains so an increase in the marginal tax rate of ordinary income in excess of $250,000 from 35 to 39.6% is not going to have near the impact that many seem to believe on their effective tax rate.

Dividends and Capital Gains have always been taxed lower than ordinary income and after the Bush tax cuts are at very low historical levels. If you are making 70% of your annual income from capital gains/dividends taxed at 15%, how impactful is a increase from 35 to 39.6% on ordinary income over $250 K? Not very, quite honestly.

It's completely disingenuous for you to suggest that 39 vs. 15 is what this boiling down to.

Of course the key to this is all is simplifying the ridiculous tax code the US has so it can actually be transparent whether what we truly have is a regressive, flat, or progressive tax system. As complicated as the code is right now, you could do to 10 different tax professionals right now and not get anything close to a general consensus on if we are by and large regressive or progressive.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

no plumbers license? he has a tax lien against him? so, he could be an out of work hairdresser. WC, was he planted by a certain party?

:lmao

The guy could make a million dollars a year for all I care, that has nothing to do with Obama's answer to his question.