Monroe: Spurs Face Some Tough Roster Cuts

[duncan228]

Spurs face some tough roster cuts (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_face_some_tough_roster_cuts.html)
By Mike Monroe - Express-News

With their first roster cuts in the offing, the Spurs returned home late Friday night from their only extended road trip of the preseason with decisions awaiting coach Gregg Popovich that he would rather he not have to make.

With 13 guaranteed contracts, the Spurs can add no more than two players to their opening-night roster. The numbers game is daunting, both for the players trying to earn a spot and the coaching staff that must decide which players will be let go.

Veteran free agent Salim Stoudamire, a combination guard whose ability to run the club from the point got a little more valuable when rookie George Hill suffered a badly sprained left thumb in Tuesday's preseason game against the Pistons, has yet to play, victim of a nagging right groin strain.

He may be ready to go in tonight's preseason game at AT&T Center against the Indiana Pacers. The basketball staff is eager to see him in action, and how he fares will greatly affect all the players hoping to make the roster.

Malik Hairston, Devin Green and Desmon Farmer, the three young wing players competing for a position, all have played well enough that Popovich winces at the notion of giving any one of them the bad news that seems inevitable for at least two of them, perhaps before the team's pregame practice, a workout open to the public at AT&T Center at 10 a.m.

After four games, the non-guaranteed player who may have the best chance of sticking is power forward Anthony Tolliver. Through the first four preseason games, he has played 88 minutes, and has impressed with an aggressive approach at the offensive end of the court and a studious approach at the defensive end.

“Anthony's done a good job,” Popovich said after Thursday's victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers at Gund Arena. “He's shot the ball for us. He's a conscientious young man and a quick learner. He's trying to do a better job on the boards and learn the system a bit. He's someone we're real high on.”

Tolliver acknowledges that he was too hyped up in his first two preseason games to shoot the ball with the sort of confident precision that earned him an invitation to training camp after playing for the Spurs' summer league team. Then, he shot 57.1 percent from 3-point range. Going into Thursday's game in Cleveland, he was just 3 for 16 from beyond the arc. He made two of three 3-pointers against the Cavs, finishing with 10 points and the admiration of Tim Duncan.

“He can really shoot the ball,” Duncan said. “There are some details of the system that he needs to learn about, but he brings a lot to the table.”

Tolliver credits Duncan with helping him control his occasional overexuberance on the court, saying Duncan's persistent advice has been to slow down and relax.

“He's a little excitable,” Duncan said.

Tolliver, 6-foot-8 and 240 pounds, continues to believe in his shooting stroke and focus more on rebounding and the Spurs' defensive schemes. Thursday's game, he said, helped.

“I do feel I'm getting my shooting rhythm,” Tolliver said after making three of six shots, including two of three from long range, and scoring 10 points in 18 minutes against the Cavaliers. “I came out relaxed from the beginning. My first shot was quite a bit long, like most of my shots in the first three games, but once I calmed down and took my time, I took a few more and they started going in. I got my confidence from that.”

If anything, however, the evaluation process got even more difficult on Thursday when center Darryl Watkins showed off defensive skills highly valued on a team that always stresses defense first. Watkins blocked three shots against the Cavaliers and was active and aggressive on the backboards as well.

[Russ]

Dump Bonner. Make Vaughn a highly overpaid assistant coach (subject to suiting up mid-season).

There's two more spots right there. :)

[timvp]

“Anthony's done a good job,” Popovich said after Thursday's victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers at Gund Arena. “He's shot the ball for us.Notice there isn't a "well" in that second sentence :lol

I've thought all along that Tolliver has by far the best chance of the training camp invites. It really sounds like he's going to make the team. I'm not sold on him as a player but in theory he fits within the Spurs' offense pretty well ... if he can actually make shots.

It sounds like out of Hairston, Green, Farmer and Stoudamire that the Spurs are leaning toward Stoudamire and are hoping that one of the other three gives them reason to change their mind. So far, all three of those players have done well but none of them have played exceptionally. Stoudamire has a pretty good chance of beating out all three if he comes back and proves he can knock down shots and play the point guard position.

Watkins is an interesting situation. My perspective has been he was going to go against Mahinmi and not Tolliver for a roster spot. Watkins has played well but I think for him to make the team, the Spurs would move Mahinmi. I don't think Watkins has played well enough for the Spurs to make that move so he'll probably get cut. I don't see him making it and Tolliver being cut because the Spurs want more than Bonner in their attempt to replace what Horry can do shooting-wise.

Gaines is gone and I'm assuming one of Green or Farmer will be gone within the next 24 hours.

[saxman]

Dump Bonner. Make Vaughn a highly overpaid assistant coach (subject to suiting up mid-season).

There's two more spots right there. :)


Interesting comment.

[Spurs Brazil]

If Stoudamire plays well it'll make it really tough.

I just think he's too small to play SG. I'd rather keep one of those guys who can play SG/SF

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think there is any way Watkins would be kept over Ian until Ian's actual NBA upside is better determined. I can't see amassing that much frontline offensive ineptitude on one roster at any rate.

Tolliver will probably be kept; if he beats out Bonner, they'll try to move Bonner.

The guard situation sucks because each of the D-Leaguers has something to recommend him, but Salim's experience will probably win out since none has put himself head and shoulders above the others.

I think the good news is that the D-League players probably got enough scratch in camp to stay in the D-League for a couple of months at least, so they could be available if the Spurs find a need later.

[timvp]

I don't think there is any way Watkins would be kept over Ian until Ian's actual NBA upside is better determined.Agreed. Ian's injury made him a lock to make the roster. If he were healthy and the Spurs played him 35 minutes a night during preseason and he looked unimpressive, that'd be the only way the Spurs would give up on him this early.

I'd be stunned if the Spurs gave up on Mahinmi without giving him a long look. Although Beno lost a lot of points with Pop for being injury prone and Mahinmi is almost reaching Beno status when it comes to injuries . . .

[SenorSpur]

I still don't see why they can't keep 6 bigs. If Splitter had come over, they were likely going to have 6 bigs anyway. So I don't know why Watkins can't figure into the equation. Besides, they don't have anyone on the roster (sans Duncan) who can do the things he can defensively.

[timvp]

I still don't see why they can't keep 6 bigs. If Splitter had come over, they were likely going to have 6 bigs anyway. So I don't know why Watkins can't figure into the equation. Besides, they don't have anyone on the roster (sans Duncan) who can do the things he can defensively.Tolliver is the sixth big. Granted, he's not too "big".

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I still don't know about Tolliver.

It's gonna suck if Farmer gets cut, which is likely.

[SenorSpur]

Tolliver is the sixth big. Granted, he's not too "big".

I guess that means we're calling Bonner a big too.

[Blackjack]

Parker,Hill,Stoudamire
Ginobili,Mason,Finley
Bowen,Udoka,Hairston
Duncan,Mahinmi,Tolliver
Oberto,Thomas,Watkins

Won't happen unless they can find a way to move Bonner (Come on Knicks, he'd sure be good in that new system:smokin) and Pop could bring himself to part with Vaughn, but that's what I'd like to see.

[Tully365]

In the Cleveland game, Bonner outperformed all of the new guys by a mile, finishing with 15 pts and 7 rebounds in 18 minutes of play. Tolliver has been given a fair chance to outplay Bonner and so far has just not done it. I'm not exactly a big Bonner fan, but if the situations were reversed and Tolliver was the guy already on the team and Bonner was the newcomer, it's pretty likely that many on spurstalk would be calling for a Tolliver trade to make room for Bonner.

[benefactor]

In the Cleveland game, Bonner outperformed all of the new guys by a mile, finishing with 15 pts and 7 rebounds in 18 minutes of play. Tolliver has been given a fair chance to outplay Bonner and so far has just not done it. I'm not exactly a big Bonner fan, but if the situations were reversed and Tolliver was the guy already on the team and Bonner was the newcomer, it's pretty likely that many on spurstalk would be calling for a Tolliver trade to make room for Bonner.
But that is just one game...which is Bonner's M.O. He will look like a solid role player here and there and the rest of the time he looks completely lost. Bonner has had his chance and its starting to look more and more like he is what he is.

Tolliver on the other hand is five years younger than Bonner and is still has plenty of room to learn. He has already shown signs of a better basketball IQ than Bonner...and I think that Pop is thinking that he is more teachable at this point than Bonner. I also think they feel his shot will come around. By the way Duncan and Pop talk it makes one wonder if he has shown some things during practice that we haven't seen that has impressed them.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Isn't it funny that we're depending on rookies from preseason to fill out our roster due to team injuries of the highest order?

[urunobili]

my picks are Salim and Watkins

[ChumpDumper]

Isn't it funny that we're depending on rookies from preseason to fill out our roster due to team injuries of the highest order?We're depending on rookies to fill out the roster due to the roster limit of 15 players.

Injuries of the highest order end careers. Spare us the hyperbole.

[Ice009]

Well I am very happy that the Spurs are considering Watkins. I said it in another thread that I would really like to get Watkins somehow. You guys know Pop has to be just a little excited by the defensive potential if he were to pan out.

Forget about the offensive side of the ball, but between Ian and Watkins who has the greater defensive potential? Has Ian put on any weight? Can Ian bang with the other bigs in the West? How was Ian's shot blocking in the D-League?

If we didn't have Vaughn and Bonner my picks would be Farmer, Stoudamire, Watkins, Tolliver. Only being able to pick two of those guys makes it really hard. Also, I'm leaving Hairston off cause I'm looking at players that can help us right now.

[Bruno]

Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ? :rolleyes
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?

And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.

[tav1]

Parker,Hill,Stoudamire
Ginobili,Mason,Finley
Bowen,Udoka,Hairston
Duncan,Mahinmi,Tolliver
Oberto,Thomas,Watkins

Won't happen unless they can find a way to move Bonner (Come on Knicks, he'd sure be good in that new system:smokin) and Pop could bring himself to part with Vaughn, but that's what I'd like to see.

I like that team. Farmer and Hairston are interchangeable, but the above scenario would allow the Spurs two decent Toros prospects.

But I don't see any trade-partners for Bonner. Buying out Vaughn is unlikely. There are a couple scenarios that might bring back a player for the combination of Bonner and Vaughn, but that also eats a roster spot.

[tav1]

Well I am very happy that the Spurs are considering Watkins. I said it in another thread that I would really like to get Watkins somehow. You guys know Pop has to be just a little excited by the defensive potential if he were to pan out.

Forget about the offensive side of the ball, but between Ian and Watkins who has the greater defensive potential? Has Ian put on any weight? Can Ian bang with the other bigs in the West? How was Ian's shot blocking in the D-League?

If we didn't have Vaughn and Bonner my picks would be Farmer, Stoudamire, Watkins, Tolliver. Only being able to pick two of those guys makes it really hard. Also, I'm leaving Hairston off cause I'm looking at players that can help us right now.

Yes, well Ian has put on significant muscle since joining the Toros. He has a much fuller game than Watkins. Mahinmi is a far greater player at this point.

[tav1]

Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ? :rolleyes
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?

And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.

Yes, I've made this point in two other threads, and listed a few players. Who do you have in mind? I'm just curious.

[Russ]

After rewatching the Pistons game, I believe Watkins and Farmer should be kept. (And Tolliver.)

Farmer has that "it" quality on offense.

Watkins is strong, athletic, and moves well -- rare qualities in a guy that size. The hands problem is overstated - he whiffed on one easy rebound and looked very upset about it. If Kwame Brown missed that same board, he would have shrugged his shoulders like "Whaddaya expect?" Watkins also made some nice catches along the way.

Hairston and Salim also deserve strong consideration. The Spurs need to find a way to but more time and maximize their options -- they have potential assets that they can't afford to squander.

[Ice009]

Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ? :rolleyes
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?

And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.

I know it's preseason and AT is probably fighting for his dream to get a roster spot on an NBA team, but if he can't hit shots in that situation, you are right the playoffs is a whole other animal.

Who do you suggest the Spurs wait for that could be cut and is better than the players we have currently? If I'm Pop I'd rather get a guy on board that has gone through training camp with the team and at least knows something about the system.

[Russ]

I know it's preseason and AT is probably fighting for his dream to get a roster spot on an NBA team, but if he can't hit shots in that situation, you are right the playoffs is a whole other animal.

Shooting seems like the one quality you can forget about if you're already convinced that the guy can do it. The Spurs are probably looking harder at the rest of Tolliver's game.

[SenorSpur]

Shooting seems like the one quality you can forget about if you're already convinced that the guy can do it. The Spurs are probably looking harder at the rest of Tolliver's game.

...and if you study Pop's comments, he seems very pleased that this kid is focusing hard on those other critical areas (i.e. rebounding, defense). As long he does those things, remains coachable and keeps shooting with confidence, Pop will be behind him. While I don't think it's a foregone conclusion, I do expect AT to make the team.

[Ice009]

Shooting seems like the one quality you can forget about if you're already convinced that the guy can do it. The Spurs are probably looking harder at the rest of Tolliver's game.

Good take. Another good point to consider is maybe Anthony is trying to do other stuff that Pop wants and it's affecting his shooting a little bit trying to impress Pop?

[Ice009]

Yes, well Ian has put on significant muscle since joining the Toros. He has a much fuller game than Watkins. Mahinmi is a far greater player at this point.

I'm talking about defense only here. I know that Ian has a more balanced game compared to Watkins, especially offensively. All I want to know is how they compare on the defensive end. Who is bigger? stronger? Has the better defensive instincts to block shots and play D in our system? Are you answering Mahinmi to that question?

[tav1]

I'm talking about defense only here. I know that Ian has a more balanced game compared to Watkins, especially offensively. All I want to know is how they compare on the defensive end. Who is bigger? stronger? Has the better defensive instincts to block shots and play D in our system? Are you answering Mahinmi to that question?

I don't know the answer. Watkins is more of a natural shot blocker, but that is only one element of defense.

Watkins has not shown me enough to think that his athletic prowess in one area is enough to consider him a better defender than Mahinmi. I'd like Watkins to see a year in Austin because I think the answer could be "yes." But he could go nowhere fast, too.

[Bruno]

Who do you have in mind? I'm just curious.

Nobody. I haven't follow at all who was doing well in preseason and could be cut. Spurs have also their TE that expired in 10 days.

When I wonder if a player should be kept, the question I asked to myself is "Can this player help Spurs in the short or the long term ?"

A player able to help Spurs in the short term would be a role player able to do something that other players on Spurs roster aren't able to do.
A player able to help Spurs in the long term would be an intriguing prospect.

Rigth now, I don't see how Tolliver, Farmer, Green and Gaines would be able to help Spurs more than the 13 players with a guaranteed contract.
Watkins and Hairston have some interesting qualities but is it enough to put them in the "intriguing prospect" case ?

[Russ]

Yes, well Ian has put on significant muscle since joining the Toros. He has a much fuller game than Watkins. Mahinmi is a far greater player at this point.

Ian reminds me of David Robinson without the prodigious talent. Like Dave, Ian is somewhat passive but he doesn't have Dave's explosiveness and he seems lost. Clearly not as bright as big Dave. I wouldn't assume that Mahinmi will be a better player than Watkins.

[Ice009]

I don't know the answer. Watkins is more of a natural shot blocker, but that is only one element of defense.

Watkins has not shown me enough to think that his athletic prowess in one area is enough to consider him a better defender than Mahinmi. I'd like Watkins to see a year in Austin because I think the answer could be "yes." But he could go nowhere fast, too.

We haven't really had that intimidating shot blocking consistently since D-Rob was here. We had it at times with Rasho and Nazr, but it wasn't as intimidating as when both TD and D-Rob can block your shot at any time. That kind of element can really bring our defense up another level.

I agree with your last paragraph though that having him in Austin would be a great route to take to see if he improves. You know what? I'd love it if Pop were to start Watkins alongside Tim tonight to see how they would go together.

[Bruno]

Mahinmi was a better shotblocker than Watkins in D-League last year.

[Ice009]

Mahinmi was a better shotblocker than Watkins in D-League last year.

How old is Darryl? maybe he is improving?

[tav1]

We haven't really had that intimidating shot blocking consistently since D-Rob was here. We had it at times with Rasho and Nazr, but it wasn't as intimidating as when both TD and D-Rob can block your shot at any time. That kind of element can really bring our defense up another level.

I agree with your last paragraph though that having him in Austin would be a great route to take to see if he improves. You know what? I'd love it if Pop were to start Watkins alongside Tim tonight to see how they would go together.

Agree. Give Watkins more pt with the first team and see what happens.

I wonder if the Spurs could secure a roster spot for Hairston in Europe and bring him back next summer and training camp. Is it too late for that?

[tav1]

How old is Darryl? maybe he is improving?

Google is your friend.

[SenorSpur]

I don't know the answer. Watkins is more of a natural shot blocker, but that is only one element of defense.

Watkins has not shown me enough to think that his athletic prowess in one area is enough to consider him a better defender than Mahinmi. I'd like Watkins to see a year in Austin because I think the answer could be "yes." But he could go nowhere fast, too.

We all know it's a numbers game. If he can't make the team this year, I'd like to see him in Austin too. I'd just be afraid that some other team would snag him.

[tav1]

Nobody. I haven't follow at all who was doing well in preseason and could be cut. Spurs have also their TE that expired in 10 days.

When I wonder if a player should be kept, the question I asked to myself is "Can this player help Spurs in the short or the long term ?"

A player able to help Spurs in the short term would be a role player able to do something that other players on Spurs roster aren't able to do.
A player able to help Spurs in the long term would be an intriguing prospect.

Rigth now, I don't see how Tolliver, Farmer, Green and Gaines would be able to help Spurs more than the 13 players with a guaranteed contract.
Watkins and Hairston have some interesting qualities but is it enough to put them in the "intriguing prospect" case ?


Although, I agree with you in principle, I disagree on a few of the particulars.

I'd be okay if the Spurs waived Tolliver, Gaines and Green, although I think Tolly has already made the team. Pop is high..............on him.

Farmer is enough of an offensive player, that I wouldn't mind keeping him for this season. From what I've seen he can score at the NBA-level and would be good to keep until at least Ginobili returns. He'd help during one of the Spurs' notorious droughts.

Hairston and Watkins I would put in the "intriguing prospect" category. Intriguing enough that I would want the Spurs to retain their rights, but not so intriguing that I want to see them signed long term. Things would be much more simple if the Spurs found a European team for Hairston.

[lotr1trekkie]

We have enough perimeter shooters. Bowens, Finley, Mason, Oduka, Tolliver and Manu. In reality Tim is the only true center on the team. We need a combination of players to do the dirty work rebounding and defensively when Tim isn't in the game. We need a legit center who can do that. Hopefully, Ian will turn out to be that guy. If not Watkins sounds promising. Ian's injury has put Pop in a position of not knowing who to keep.

[benefactor]

We all know it's a numbers game. If he can't make the team this year, I'd like to see him in Austin too. I'd just be afraid that some other team would snag him.
There is probably a strong possibility that will happen if we cut him. Everyone is looking for big bodies to try to contain the teams like us, LA, Portand, etc. that have scoring threats in the post. Someone that is shorter on bigs than we are could look at his size and shot blocking numbers in the preseason and pick him up for insurance.

[tav1]

There is probably a strong possibility that will happen if we cut him. Everyone is looking for big bodies to try to contain the teams like us, LA, Portand, etc. that have scoring threats in the post. Someone that is shorter on bigs than we are could look at his size and shot blocking numbers in the preseason and pick him up for insurance.

Iowa or LA might retain his NBDL rights.

[tav1]

Watkins is almost 24. That's pretty old to still be this raw.

[benefactor]

Iowa or LA might retain his NBDL rights.
But does that matter if he signs a new contract elsewhere?

[tav1]

If the contract is with the Spurs, no. But the context of your last post was "cut."

[benefactor]

Watkins is almost 24. That's pretty old to still be this raw.
Not really. Now if you get as old as Bonner and you are still having the same issues...then that is a problem.

[polandprzem]

Shesh

As I read those articles and some post I don't know if the spurs are in rebuliding process or what?

[Ice009]

Even Dallas has Diop who can block shots and is long. They're also paying that dude 5 million though ;). That just goes to show you how big of a commodity a shot blocker who can play defense and rebound is in the West.

[tav1]

Not really. Now if you get as old as Bonner and you are still having the same issues...then that is a problem.

He can still develop, no doubt. But a 24 year old project is not the same as an 18 year old project. That's all. It's not like he hasn't been playing his whole life. What is the reason that he hasn't advanced beyond this point?

[tav1]

Shesh

As I read those articles and some post I don't know if the spurs are in rebuliding process or what?

Rebuilding? Huh?

Not the same as developing the pipeline.

[tav1]

Even Dallas has Diop who can block shots and is long. They're also paying that dude 5 million though ;). That just goes to show you how big of a commodity a shot blocker who can play defense and rebound is in the West.

Whether or not he can consistently block shots remains to be seen.

[benefactor]

He can still develop, no doubt. But a 24 year old project is not the same as an 18 year old project. That's all. It's not like he hasn't been playing his whole life. What is the reason that he hasn't advanced beyond this point?
He has only been in the league one year. He has played a total of 9 NBA games. How many players can you name that had a polished, NBA level game after only one year in the league?

[tav1]

We're at an impasse because of perspectives. You're concentrating on his available skill set (the polish) while I'm saying why is there so little polish? In other words, we're talking past one another because I'm concerned with his rawness and your concerned with what has begun to take shape. My guess is that our comprehensive evaluations of Watkins are more or less the same.

I'd like a longer look too.

[polandprzem]

Rebuilding? Huh?

Not the same as developing the pipeline.

Who do you want to develop on spurs roster at position number 14th and 15th?

Those two positions should be locked for vets. IMO

[tav1]

Who do you want to develop on spurs roster at position number 14th and 15th?

Those two positions should be locked for vets. IMO

I completely disagree. In most cases, I think that those two spots best serve the Spurs interests if they are reserved for Austin assignees. This year that could mean Hairston and Watkins, or some player that doesn't make another squad. Having Damon Stoudamire and Steve Smith at the end of the bench doesn't help the team short or long term.

[polandprzem]

Hairston and Watkins

Are they gonna be in the 8-man rotation for a title contender?

You always can dump Smiths and Stoudamire contracts and make a run at somebody better.

You probably talking about surviving regular season, I'm talking about helping team in the playoffs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

watkins is insurance in case ian is a fukn BUSTS waitin to happen

[SenorSpur]

There is probably a strong possibility that will happen if we cut him. Everyone is looking for big bodies to try to contain the teams like us, LA, Portand, etc. that have scoring threats in the post. Someone that is shorter on bigs than we are could look at his size and shot blocking numbers in the preseason and pick him up for insurance.

Exactly. That's why I don't believe it's in the Spurs best interest to give up on Watkins. Teams aren't exactly turning loose big, true centers that can rebound, defend and block shots. There are many spare bigs that are at the end of the bench and at the bottom of various NBA rosters.

The Spurs need to keep this guy and develop him. He may be a project player, but he's obviously got some skills that could mean him turning into a productive player over the long haul. He may even be able to provide some meaningful minutes against some of the bigger frontline teams in the short term.

[underdawg]

Exactly. That's why I don't believe it's in the Spurs best interest to give up on Watkins. Teams aren't exactly turning loose big, true centers that can rebound, defend and block shots. There are many spare bigs that are at the end of the bench and at the bottom of various NBA rosters.

The Spurs need to keep this guy and develop him. He may be a project player, but he's obviously got some skills that could mean him turning into a productive player over the long haul. He may even be able to provide some meaningful minutes against some of the bigger frontline teams in the short term.

Add to that the fact that even if Ian is decent this year, he's still known to be foul prone. Having bigs that are quick and long can really help our frequent defensive lapses on quick guards. 3 point shooting is part of our scheme (sometimes unfortunately,) but one of our glaring weaknesses is interior defense outside of Duncan.

[tav1]

Add to that the fact that even if Ian is decent this year, he's still known to be foul prone. Having bigs that are quick and long can really help our frequent defensive lapses on quick guards. 3 point shooting is part of our scheme (sometimes unfortunately,) but one of our glaring weaknesses is interior defense outside of Duncan.

Watkins is just as foul prone as Mahinmi. That is an area of Ian's game wherein he really improved this past year. George Hill will be a better help to slow quick guards.

The idea that Watkins is more game-ready than Mahinmi is far-fetched. They both played NBDL last season, and Ian was much better.

[Manufan909]

I'd go for Hairston and Watkins, but I can't shake the feeling that Tolliver is almost guarenteed. If I had to choose between Hairston and Watkins, I'd have to go with Hairston, since Ian is Watkins 1.5.

[underdawg]

Watkins is just as foul prone as Mahinmi. That is an area of Ian's game wherein he really improved this past year. George Hill will be a better help to slow quick guards.

The idea that Watkins is more game-ready than Mahinmi is far-fetched. They both played NBDL last season, and Ian was much better.

I'm not suggesting Watkins over Ian. I'm just saying he would provide an extra athletic big man if Ian were to get in foul trouble. Maybe I'm overestimating the benefit of a long athletic big man against some of the teams we play that get to the rim at will, but having 2 is better than one. Thomas and Oberto seem to be liabilities against those types of teams/situations.

[ChumpDumper]

Just to make things clear, Iowa holds the rights to Watkins in the D-League.

I don't see many scenarios in which both Ian and Watkins would be on the active roster at the same time.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I'm really unclear on how the technicalities of all of this work so don't jump on me if I get this wrong, just clarify.

So, Salim, Wright, Ian, Tolliver, and a couple others aren't guaranteed correct?


Now, Wright is 24 and a physically more imposing defender, but not a great scorer and he hasn't developed that much offensively. Furthermore, basketball isn't a relatively new sport for him.

Ian is recovering from an injury, but had a better shotblocking statistic per game last year than Wright and is more developed offensively than Wright. He also started playing basketball later than Wright.

Tolliver shot well in preseason, but not in the first couple of preseason games. However, the Spurs believe in his shot and he is similar to the type of 4 that Horry was, a 4 who can stretch the defense by knocking down the 3.

Salim has had attitude problems in the past and is small for a shooting guard, but in college was a stellar shooter.



And it has basically come down to picking two of those four, right?

I would pick Salim and Ian. This may seem short-sighted and it may even be short-sighted, but here's why:

The Tim Duncan window and Manu Ginobili window won't stay open that much longer. A year or two at most. Probably this year and then we need a new superstar on our team.

Last year, when Manu was injured, we had major problems getting more production! We needed more scoring, but couldn't get it.

And our path just to get to the Western Conference Finals was tenuous and difficult because of the standings.

With Manu's current injury causing him to be out at least 6 weeks and the likelihood that it will take several weeks after that for Manu to be making a major contribution to the team again, we will need every bit of scoring help that we can get.

We will struggle to score 90 points a game if we do the arithmetic, it looks like we don't get there.

Also, if we fall way behind and way only half or less than half of our games, we will be facing an unphill challenge the entire playoffs, assuming we make it.

Furthermore, if Manu is injured again in the playoffs and can't score (even if he is playing), then we will need that extra scoring punch.


If this were early on in Tim Duncan's career and his numbers weren't on the decline or if Manu did not have a history of injuries costing us playoffs (along with a history of great play causing us to win trophies), then we could afford to take a long view. We can't.

Therefore, I would elect to pick Salim and Ian.

Salim was described by college basketball analysts I respect as one of the best shooters in college there is on draft day, just attitude issues were the only concern. His numbers were great.

He may not pan out, but it is a low risk, high reward. It is possible that he could put up a lot of points for us and we need that. None of the other nonguaranteed contract players even have that remotely in their potential.
As a backup to Tony Parker or if we went small for some reason, he could really add to our scoring, potentially.

Furthermore, Ian's athleticism and improved scoring ability could really help us. I don't know the extent of his current injury and how long it will take for him to heal and the impact of it upon his play, but we could really benefit from any offense that he could bring.

For those reasons, I would choose Ian and Salim for the last two nonguaranteed spots.

:flag::lobt2:

[tav1]

Hairston and Watkins

Are they gonna be in the 8-man rotation for a title contender?

You always can dump Smiths and Stoudamire contracts and make a run at somebody better.

You probably talking about surviving regular season, I'm talking about helping team in the playoffs.

No one signed as 14th or 15th men will even be active. That's why you sign Toros. 8 man rotation? No one is talking about an 8 man rotation.

None of the people we're talking will be active in the post season.

[tav1]

I'm really unclear on how the technicalities of all of this work so don't jump on me if I get this wrong, just clarify.

So, Salim, Wright, Ian, Tolliver, and a couple others aren't guaranteed correct?


Now, Wright is 24 and a physically more imposing defender, but not a great scorer and he hasn't developed that much offensively. Furthermore, basketball isn't a relatively new sport for him.

Ian is recovering from an injury, but had a better shotblocking statistic per game last year than Wright and is more developed offensively than Wright. He also started playing basketball later than Wright.

Tolliver shot well in preseason, but not in the first couple of preseason games. However, the Spurs believe in his shot and he is similar to the type of 4 that Horry was, a 4 who can stretch the defense by knocking down the 3.

Salim has had attitude problems in the past and is small for a shooting guard, but in college was a stellar shooter.



And it has basically come down to picking two of those four, right?

I would pick Salim and Ian. This may seem short-sighted and it may even be short-sighted, but here's why:

The Tim Duncan window and Manu Ginobili window won't stay open that much longer. A year or two at most. Probably this year and then we need a new superstar on our team.

Last year, when Manu was injured, we had major problems getting more production! We needed more scoring, but couldn't get it.

And our path just to get to the Western Conference Finals was tenuous and difficult because of the standings.

With Manu's current injury causing him to be out at least 6 weeks and the likelihood that it will take several weeks after that for Manu to be making a major contribution to the team again, we will need every bit of scoring help that we can get.

We will struggle to score 90 points a game if we do the arithmetic, it looks like we don't get there.

Also, if we fall way behind and way only half or less than half of our games, we will be facing an unphill challenge the entire playoffs, assuming we make it.

Furthermore, if Manu is injured again in the playoffs and can't score (even if he is playing), then we will need that extra scoring punch.


If this were early on in Tim Duncan's career and his numbers weren't on the decline or if Manu did not have a history of injuries costing us playoffs (along with a history of great play causing us to win trophies), then we could afford to take a long view. We can't.

Therefore, I would elect to pick Salim and Ian.

Salim was described by college basketball analysts I respect as one of the best shooters in college there is on draft day, just attitude issues were the only concern. His numbers were great.

He may not pan out, but it is a low risk, high reward. It is possible that he could put up a lot of points for us and we need that. None of the other nonguaranteed contract players even have that remotely in their potential.
As a backup to Tony Parker or if we went small for some reason, he could really add to our scoring, potentially.

Furthermore, Ian's athleticism and improved scoring ability could really help us. I don't know the extent of his current injury and how long it will take for him to heal and the impact of it upon his play, but we could really benefit from any offense that he could bring.

For those reasons, I would choose Ian and Salim for the last two nonguaranteed spots.

:flag::lobt2:

You're all over the map here. Read this thread and a few others if you want answers to your questions, but the short answer is that Mahinmi is on the team regardless.

[ChumpDumper]

For those reasons, I would choose Ian and Salim for the last two nonguaranteed spots. Ian's deal is guaranteed this season.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Ian's deal is guaranteed this season.

Sorry for the mistake.

Maybe I misread the comments, but it appeared that some people were talking about Wright or Ian and as if Ian weren't guaranteed a spot on the roster.


But if Ian is already here and that is the case, then Wright is gone.


Why does Ian's presence mean Wright must go? Too many bigs or another reason?


Tolliver doesn't count as a big? Because the article sounded like he was in.


Finally, if there is even a 2 % chance Salim could be a scorer, don't we need to put him on the team?

[tav1]

By Wright, I assume you mean Darryl Wright Watkins?

Tolliver is a big. He's the red-headed guy. Can't miss him.

[Ice009]

Sorry for the mistake.

Maybe I misread the comments, but it appeared that some people were talking about Wright or Ian and as if Ian weren't guaranteed a spot on the roster.


But if Ian is already here and that is the case, then Wright is gone.


Why does Ian's presence mean Wright must go? Too many bigs or another reason?


Tolliver doesn't count as a big? Because the article sounded like he was in.


Finally, if there is even a 2 % chance Salim could be a scorer, don't we need to put him on the team?

Who in the heck is Wright? Do you even know what's going on here?

[mystargtr34]

Who in the heck is Wright? Do you even know what's going on here?

:lol explaion it to him.