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boutons_
10-18-2008, 08:19 PM
The Palin Plunge: Voters Sour On McCain VP Pick

The more voters learn about Sarah Palin, the more wary they become. Once the focus of post-convention Republican euphoria, the Alaska Governor is now viewed as a serious liability to the McCain campaign.

As it stands, Palin's polling numbers are daunting: with the unfolding economic crisis, her favorable to unfavorable ratings have switched (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20081015_POLL.pdf) from a positive 40-30, according to a September 12-16 New York Times survey, to a negative 32-41 in an October 10-13 survey.

Palin is, additionally, costing McCain newspaper endorsements. Editor and Publisher calculated (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003875479) that as of Oct 18, Barack Obama led McCain 58-16 in the competition for the backing of newspapers. Many of the endorsements cited Palin as a factor in their rejection of McCain. The Salt Lake Tribune, which supported George W. Bush in 2004, commented that "out of nowhere, and without proper vetting, the impetuous McCain picked Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.
She quickly proved grievously under-equipped to step into the presidency should McCain, at 72 and with a history of health problems, die in office. More than any single factor, McCain's bad judgment in choosing the inarticulate, insular and ethically challenged Palin disqualifies him for the presidency." The Kansas City Star, in turn, described Palin as "unqualified."

Brookings Senior Fellow Thomas Mann told the Huffington Post that initially, Palin both built conservative enthusiasm for McCain and drew widespread interest among voters who had not been closely following the race. But those benefits soon evanesced:

"Within weeks, she became a liability, primarily as a highly visible indicator of McCain's impulsiveness and recklessness in picking someone who is patently unqualified to serve as president and commander-in-chief. McCain's only chance of making this election competitive was to contrast his readiness to serve with Obama's inexperience and naiveté. The Palin choice was the first clear sign (others followed) that McCain could not win that comparison."

Norman Ornstein, of the American Enterprise Institute, agrees about the immediate gains, noting that the "short term boost dissipated awfully quickly. Palin's clear lack of capability to serve as VP, much less as president, her lack of knowledge of even basics about most areas of policy, her ethical problems in Alaska over Troopergate, and the campaign decision to cloister her from serious scrutiny, all caused a drop in her own approval, but also reflected on McCain's decision-making style." Palin continues to "generate enthusiasm from hard-core Republicans who would not be as charged-up if the running mate were, say, a [Mitt] Romney or [Tim] Pawlenty," Ornstein says, "but the downside is definitely greater than the gain."

Palin's analysis of the current economic crisis has not won over most voters seeking a serious appraisal of the situation accompanied by well-thought out proposals. In a highly sympathetic interview (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424346,00.html) with Sean Hannity on Fox News, the verbatim exchange on the economy went as follows:
PALIN: "Certainly it is a mess though, the economy is a mess. And there have been abuses on Wall Street and that adversely affects Main Street.
And it's that commitment that John McCain is articulating today, getting in there, reforming the way that Wall Street has been allowed to work, stopping the abuses and that violation of the public trust that too many CEOs and top management of some of these companies, that abuse there has got to stop.
It is, somebody was saying this morning, a toxic waste there on Wall Street, affecting Main Street. And we've got to cure this."


HANNITY: "Through reform?"


PALIN: "Through reform, absolutely. Look at the oversight that has been lax, I believe, here it's a 1930s type of regulatory regime overseeing some of these corporations. And we've got to get a more coordinated and a much more stringent oversight regime. Not that government is going to be solely looked to for the answers in all of the problems in Wall Street, but government can play a very, very appropriate role in the oversight as people are trusting these companies with their life savings, with their investments, with their insurance policies and construction bonds and everything else. When we see the collapse that we're seeing today, you know that something is broke and John McCain has a great plan to get in there and fix it."


HANNITY: "Is Senator Obama then using what happened on Wall Street this week? Is he using it for political gain? Is there a danger of a presidential candidate is saying to the world that America's situation of economic crisis is the worst that we've seen in decades -- which was words that he was using yesterday -- is there a danger in terms of the world hearing that?"


PALIN: "Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we're talking about today. And that's something that John McCain too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must surpassed to deal with an issue like this. It is that profound and that important an issue that we work together on this and not just let one party try to kind of grab it all or capture it all and pretend like they have all the answers. It's going to take everybody working together on this."
*** Vice presidential picks have been considered by political scientists as irrelevant to the outcome. This year, however, there is a contribution Palin may make: If McCain loses Florida by a close margin, Palin will likely deserve responsibility because of the animosity she has generated among a key constituency the GOP was depending on to abandon its traditional support for Democrats: older Jewish voters.


In Florida, where McCain had led - sometimes by relatively strong margins - Obama took the lead during the past month. Real Clear Politics gives (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html) Obama a 3.2 percentage point advantage in the state, which has become a key battleground.

In 2004, George W. Bush beat John Kerry 52-47 in Florida, while losing the Jewish vote (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/FL/P/00/epolls.0.html), which makes up five percent of the electorate, 4-1.
On May 22, 2008, well before the Palin pick, the New York Times reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/us/politics/22jewish.html?_r=1&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin) widespread concerns about the prospective Democratic nominee in a story headlined "As Obama Heads to Florida, Many of Its Jews Have Doubts."

The Palin pick was from the start viewed even more negatively by Jewish voters. By a margin of 57-37, Jewish voters nationwide said they disapproved McCain's decision according to a September 8- 21 survey (http://www.ajc.org/site/c.ijITI2PHKoG/b.4540689/) by the American Jewish Committee.

Among Florida Jewish voters, according to University of Florida political scientist Ken Wald, "there's a great deal of resistance to her for a couple of reasons. First, on the issues, she's simply wrong. Jews as a group are pro-choice, anti-gun, and generally associated with liberal values on social and economic issues. Even many orthodox Jews, who are somewhat more traditionalist, are hardly raging social conservatives. The fact that her church hosted a Jews for Jesus speaker--at a service she attended and applauded--adds insult to injury. (Many in the Jewish community consider Jews for Jesus as a group that seeks the continuation of the Holocaust by peaceful means.)"

In addition, Wald told the Huffington Post, "among middle-class Jewish career women in particular, there's a resentment bordering on rage that somebody so obviously unqualified was appointed on the assumption that she would appeal to women. As women of accomplishment, they deeply resent the pandering and take it quite personally."

In an interview with the Tampa Bay Times and Bay News McCain acknowledged (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article860402.ece) that he would be having a much easier time in Florida had he picked the state's Governor, Charlie Crist, instead of Palin. "Charlie, because he's so popular, he probably would have made a significant difference,'' McCain said, "Look, this is a tough decision that we made with Sarah Palin. But I also saw Sarah Palin come down here and energize crowds in a way that's pretty remarkable, too."

*** The crucial long-range question about Palin is whether she becomes the banner carrier for Republican conservatives, especially social conservatives, earning their support for the GOP nomination in 2012.


Conservative author and publicist Craig Shirley argues that Palin's "first job was to unify the convention and this she accomplished, even better than expected. Her second job was to rally the base and at this she has been less successful, though through little fault of her own. ... Her only weakness is that her handlers did not believe in Palin as much as she believed in herself and as a result, she has been damaged and thus has some rehabilitation work ahead of her."

Shirley holds in disdain those on the right who have criticized or turned against Palin: "The sunshine conservatives and summer Reaganites who have cut and run on Palin are the same weak-sister Republicans who chose Gerald Ford over 'that actor' Ronald Reagan in 1976, because he went to Eureka College and because he foolishly thought we could defeat Soviet Communism. Didn't he know all the sophisticates on both sides supported 'détente'?"

In the immediate aftermath of Palin's nomination over a month ago, Washingtonpost.com's Chris Cillizza noted (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/palin_for_president.html) the surge of enthusiasm for her: "While any number of candidates -- former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty -- are already being seriously mentioned, Palin has quickly eclipsed all of them when it comes to 2012 positioning. She is seen as the bright new star in the Republican universe and it seems unlikely that her fresh-faced appeal will wear off completely -- especially among the GOP rank and file voters who tend to decide the identity of their party's nominee."

That luster has, however, come off and -- despite Democrats privately cheering her on -- Palin's future as a national politician now appears likely to be damaged.

In what read more like an obituary than a commentary, Peggy Noonan wrote (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122419210832542317.html?mod=special_page_campaig n2008_mostpop) in the Wall Street Journal: "In the end the Palin candidacy is a symptom and expression of a new vulgarization in American politics. It's no good, not for conservatism and not for the country. And yes, it is a mark against John McCain, against his judgment and idealism."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/18/the-palin-plunge-voters-s_n_135857.html?view=print

Anti.Hero
10-18-2008, 08:20 PM
This is just the initial fire walk. She needs to go through the hard knocks to toughen her up for the come back after enough people get tired of the far-left in a decade or so.

boutons_
10-18-2008, 08:33 PM
AP/Yahoo! News Poll: Public's Regard For McCain "Has Deteriorated Across-The-Board"

When it comes to the public's image of John McCain, it's as if somebody dialed the electricity down in the past month. For Barack Obama, the juice is still flowing.

People's regard for the Republican presidential nominee has deteriorated across-the-board since September, an Associated Press-Yahoo! News poll showed Friday, with McCain losing ground in how favorably he's seen and in a long list of personal qualities voters seek in White House contenders.

Perceptions of Obama have improved or remained steady. Beyond views of the two rivals' character traits, McCain faces another problem -- Obama is more trusted on the economy, the contest's commanding issue, including a 15-percentage-point edge for better grasping how the raging financial crisis is affecting people.

Obama's image has been sturdy even as voters' views of the overall campaign have tumbled downhill since September. The portion of people saying the contest excites them has sunk to 32 percent while those calling it frustrating have grown to 41 percent -- and in both cases, six in 10 of those whose feelings have worsened are McCain backers.

Negative campaigning and a month of intense public focus on collapsing global economic and financial markets have not been kind to McCain. The new AP-Yahoo! News poll of likely voters, conducted this month by Knowledge Networks, shows more people viewing him favorably than unfavorably by just 5 percentage points, down from a 21-point
difference in mid-September.

During the same period, Obama went the other way, increasing a 5-percentage-point net favorable rating to 15 points. Now, Obama is seen favorably by 57 percent and McCain by 52 percent -- a close margin that masks the opposite direction the two rivals' ratings are heading.

"He kind of scared me," Leesa Zick, 48, an undecided Republican from Edwardsville, Ill., said of McCain's abrupt and short-lived suspension of his campaign last month during Capitol Hill talks on a financial package. "We need a president who can deal with multiple tasks. It seemed like it overwhelmed him."

For McCain, the poll's good news is that despite a difficult month, his public image is not dramatically worse than Obama's and in several areas remains better. The public still rates him higher than Obama for keeping America safe, working with both political parties, and being decisive, experienced and competent.

"He's more qualified than Obama, definitely, because of his experience and history, " said Richard Tosti, 67, a Republican from Rochester, N.Y.
Zick and Tosti are among about 2,000 people the AP-Yahoo! News poll has been tracking since November. By repeatedly questioning them, the survey has opened a detailed window on how individuals have reacted to the campaign's twists and turns.

Less than three weeks from Election Day, Obama has taken a solid lead over McCain in most national and swing-state polls. The AP-Yahoo! News survey underscores the morale problem McCain faces.

Obama supporters are more than twice as likely to say they're excited about the race and significantly more likely to say they're interested and hopeful.

McCain backers, meanwhile, more often say they feel frustrated and helpless. Underscoring a period that has seen the rival candidates trade personal attacks, about a fifth of those backing each say they're angry.

"There's a lot of mudslinging, which I've never been a fan of," said Eric Juhl, 27, a Republican and McCain backer from Abilene, Kan. "And to me, the media seems pretty left-wing oriented. It's kind of frustrating."

A sour public mood is typical late in presidential campaigns as both sides' attacks accumulate, said University of Wisconsin political scientist and polling authority Charles Franklin. This year's disenchantment is probably magnified by worries about how the candidates would bolster the economy, he said.

Even so, Obama has staked out a clear advantage on economic concerns in the AP-Yahoo! News poll. The Illinois senator is trusted more than McCain to improve the economy by 54 percent to 44 percent, and to handle the financial crisis by 53 percent to 46 percent.

Obama also has a 56 percent to 41 percent advantage for understanding how the financial crisis affects people. Unhappily for McCain, six in 10 voters who may still change their minds, about as many independents and even one in 10 McCain backers prefer Obama on that question.

"To me his background indicates he'd be a little more sensitive to the middle class" in addressing economic problems, Peggy Chilton, 72, an independent from Los Angeles who hasn't decided on a candidate, said of Obama.

The numbers don't get better for McCain when it comes to personal traits.

Following debates between the two rivals in which the Arizona senator has appeared angry at times, 46 percent consider him hot-tempered, more than triple the 13 percent who say so about Obama.

"He'd be a little nerve-racking to have in the White House, jumping real fast," Darlene Finley, 48, an Obama-leaning independent from Ossineke, Mich., said of McCain. "When you're talking about war, that's something you don't want to do, jumping real fast."

Since September, McCain has lost ground on nearly every quality tested in the poll, including lower scores for being likable, decisive, honest, competent, intelligent and inspiring. :lol

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01010/obama-mccain_1010269i.jpg

He's also lost ground for understanding ordinary peoples' problems, caring about "people like you" and improving America's international standing. Growing numbers even see him as supporting big business over the public interest and being influenced by lobbyists -- despite repeated vows to do exactly the opposite.

Obama's ratings have stayed level since last month for most qualities tested, though he has shown some improvement in whether he's considered experienced and decisive.

Paralleling McCain's problems are similar ones faced by his running mate, Sarah Palin.

A month ago, more people said the Alaska governor made them more likely to vote for McCain than less likely by 14 percentage points. That gap is now down to 3 points -- even as growing numbers say her Democratic counterpart, Joe Biden, makes them more inclined to support Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/18/apyahoo-news-poll-publics_n_135860.html?view=print

=============

But not let's got cocky. McNasty has just hired yet another Atwater/Rove protege who slimed and trashed McNasty fatally in 2000.

whottt
10-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Hey....is this the same Huffington Post that said Colin Powell was going to endorse Obama after the final debate?

ChumpDumper
10-18-2008, 08:42 PM
Well, Powell is going to be on "Meet the Press" tomorrow. We'll see what that's about.

Viva Las Espuelas
10-18-2008, 09:35 PM
thanks, Grimacetons_ for bolding the parts we really need to pay attention to. i don't know what i would do with those reading cues
:tu

Cant_Be_Faded
10-18-2008, 09:51 PM
lol at palin being such a horrible VP pick that she alienates old jewish floridan retirees

boutons_
10-18-2008, 10:52 PM
"toughen her up for the come back"

pitbull bitch is a gimmick, a stunt, she faces ethics violation(s) in Alaska, and will be tatooed, like the article says, as a major reason for McNasty's loss.

timvp
10-19-2008, 12:03 AM
"toughen her up for the come back"

pitbull bitch is a gimmick, a stunt, she faces ethics violation(s) in Alaska, and will be tatooed, like the article says, as a major reason for McNasty's loss.The reason McCain is going to lose is sitting in the White House. Jesus Christ could be McCain's running mate and it wouldn't make enough of a difference at this point.

ploto
10-19-2008, 01:14 AM
"among middle-class Jewish career women in particular, there's a resentment bordering on rage that somebody so obviously unqualified was appointed on the assumption that she would appeal to women. As women of accomplishment, they deeply resent the pandering and take it quite personally."

When will you guys learn that I know what I am talking about when it comes to women?

balli
10-19-2008, 03:18 AM
The Salt Lake Tribune, which supported George W. Bush in 2004, commented that "out of nowhere, and without proper vetting, the impetuous McCain picked Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate.
She quickly proved grievously under-equipped to step into the presidency should McCain, at 72 and with a history of health problems, die in office[B]. More than any single factor, McCain's bad judgment in choosing the inarticulate, insular and ethically challenged Palin disqualifies him for the presidency."
From by far the largest newspaper in the single reddest state in the union. Telling. And good on em' because the editorial staff is fairly moderate and ownership forced them to endorse Bush in 04. I've seen this passage in a couple places, so they're getting play and I'm glad they're, y'know, being logical.

ElNono
10-19-2008, 09:48 AM
Hey....is this the same Huffington Post that said Colin Powell was going to endorse Obama after the final debate?

FAIL!!!!! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

DarrinS
10-19-2008, 11:03 AM
The reason McCain is going to lose is sitting in the White House. Jesus Christ could be McCain's running mate and it wouldn't make enough of a difference at this point.


Obama's rise has more to do with Bush's unpopularity than it does with any "intangibles" that Barack brings to the table. Couple that with an incredibly weak GOP ticket, an unpopular war, and a sinking economy, and you have the easiest road to the White House a candidate has ever had the dumb luck to enjoy.

LakeShow
10-19-2008, 11:48 AM
FAIL!!!!! :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

:lmao

Tully365
10-19-2008, 02:59 PM
As an Obama supporter, I have to say that your abrasive, insulting approach to political debate embarrasses me-- your style is the exact opposite of Obama's civil, diplomatic, and well-thought-out approach.

How can you talk about "McNasty" anything or reference "pitbulls" without realizing that you more than most people embrace these tendencies as much or more than any of the other posters here?

Shastafarian
10-19-2008, 03:45 PM
Hey....is this the same Huffington Post that said Colin Powell was going to endorse Obama after the final debate?

:lmao


why is everyone laughing?

LakeShow
10-19-2008, 03:52 PM
Grandma sues McCain, Palin, over hate support



LhchaAVHAnA

boutons_
10-19-2008, 04:58 PM
"How can you talk about "McNasty" anything or reference "pitbulls""

If you were really up to speed on your McNasty's bio, you'd know that McBottomGun earned the McNasty nickname at Annapolis.

Pitbull is Palin's phrase and role. I didn't originiate them.

There's nothing wrong with addressing "these people" using their own well-earned, appropriate nicknames.

Tully365
10-19-2008, 05:17 PM
"How can you talk about "McNasty" anything or reference "pitbulls""

If you were really up to speed on your McNasty's bio, you'd know that McBottomGun earned the McNasty nickname at Annapolis.

Pitbull is Palin's phrase and role. I didn't originiate them.

There's nothing wrong with addressing "these people" using their own well-earned, appropriate nicknames.

Rationalizations...

I'm well aware of where the references come from. You are still a mean-spirited, abrasive, and negative person that I wouldn't seek the support of in any situation. If you feel proud sharing the exact same temperament as O'Reilly and Rush, go right ahead. I think most Obama supporters are proud of how different his temperament and intellect are compared to them. He represents a civilizing change on partisan debate. You represent a crude escalation of it.