AVERY JOHNSON Relieved to be fired

[Biernutz]

No dismissing his happiness

AVERY JOHNSON Relieved to be fired

By Marc J. Spears Globe Staff / October 19


For the first time in more than 20 years, Avery Johnson is not an NBA coach or player. So why is he smiling?
Discuss
After a very successful but difficult coaching stint in Dallas, Johnson was relieved to be fired May 2. He is now spending more time with his wife and two teenage children in Houston than he has in years. And ESPN announced last Thursday that it has hired the "Little General" as an NBA studio analyst.
"I kind of felt my time was possibly going to be up with Dallas toward the end of my coaching stint," said Johnson. "You start seeing some signs, so I just knew my time would be up. You kind of start losing your smile a little bit. So a guy [at my country club] was recently mentioning that I got my smile back and it's good to see it back on my face.

"[The firing] was tough, but it was necessary. In terms of direction, we weren't going to be on the same page."
Johnson compiled a stellar 194-70 record with the Mavericks from 2004-08. He was Coach of the Year in 2006 after leading Dallas to the Finals, but he received much of the blame after a 2-0 lead was blown and they lost to Miami. He was also the fastest coach to reach 150 wins.

It was no secret that the intense Johnson often butted heads with outspoken owner Mark Cuban. NBA sources say Johnson would have been OK with Mavs star Dirk Nowitzki being dealt to the Lakers for Kobe Bryant or the Timberwolves for Kevin Garnett, but Cuban wasn't. Cuban's hands-on approach and vocal nature toward the referees also were challenging for Johnson to deal with.

According to NBA sources, Johnson would have preferred that the team be kept intact with young point guard Devin Harris last season rather than trading for veteran Jason Kidd. But the trade was made, and the Mavericks went a disappointing 16-13 with Kidd and were knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

"We had a heck of a run," Johnson said. "It's well-documented that we did more in 3 1/2 years than a lot of organizations. It's nothing to be ashamed about. We got after it for 3 1/2 years.

"We had some disappointing moments, but we had moments with win streaks, going to the Finals, MVPs, and guys going to the All-Star team and just selling out night after night and getting into championship talk.

"The organization had never really been in real championship talk. And obviously, there is a price to pay if you don't win it all or you don't make it to the Finals. But it was just exciting to be a part of that, and I'll be forever grateful for the organization for giving me that opportunity."Continued... (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/10/19/no_dismissing_his_happiness?page=2)
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2008/10/19/no_dismissing_his_happiness/

[mavsfan1000]

It's obvious Avery didn't like the trade. He gave Kidd all the situations Harris was used to doing. Nonetheless, his lovefest with Stackhouse was sickening.

[ducks]

I said it would be dirk or aj
it was aj

[timvp]

NBA sources say Johnson would have been OK with Mavs star Dirk Nowitzki being dealt to the Lakers for Kobe Bryant or the Timberwolves for Kevin Garnett, but Cuban wasn't.


According to NBA sources, Johnson would have preferred that the team be kept intact with young point guard Devin Harris last season rather than trading for veteran Jason Kidd.

Sounds like AJ should have been GM. He curbstomped Cuban on all three accounts.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'd be relieved to make a shitload of money while doing nothing too.

[dirk4mvp]

Sounds like AJ should have been GM. He curbstomped Cuban on all three accounts.


Probably. It's obvious coaching isn't his forte.

[T Park]

Probably. It's obvious coaching isn't his forte.

Yeah and Rick Carlisle is Phil Jackson :lol

[dirk4mvp]

Yeah and Rick Carlisle is Phil Jackson :lol


Who said that? I realize you have wet dreams about Avery taking over pop's position when he quits, and you'll be sorely dissapointed.


And yeah, Carlisle > Avery

[Findog]

Sounds like AJ should have been GM. He curbstomped Cuban on all three accounts.

Avery lobbied hard for the Kidd trade and then washed his hands of the results after it was apparent that it was not a good move. And the Lakers were never willing to deal Kobe for Dirk. It doesn't take a genius to be in favor of that move.

Guess who else is relieved that he was given a pink slip? The entire Mavs organization and its fans.

[Indazone]

So he was willing to trade Dirk and he didn't want Kidd. True? Maybe he should have been GM.

[ElNono]

Probably. It's obvious coaching isn't his forte.

Really? The coach that took you all the way to the NBA Finals?
Let's see Carlisle pull out that one.

[SenorSpur]

Avery lobbied hard for the Kidd trade and then washed his hands of the results after it was apparent that it was not a good move.

Exactly. That's Avery the politician talking again and the contradictory personality that is him. He was ABSOLUTELY leading the charge for the Kidd trade. He rode Devin Harris' ass every day the kid was in a Mavs uniform. Complained to the media that Harris wasn't developing fast enough for his taste. Then politicked to move him out . Funny thing is, Harris was in the midst of his best statistical season when he left. Then he gets Kidd on board and what does he do? Alienates him by sitting him out the last few minutes of a tight ball game. Forces him to run a slow down, set offense.

I've said all along that AJ is full of shit. This is another in a long list of reasons why.

[dirk4mvp]

Really? The coach that took you all the way to the NBA Finals?
Let's see Carlisle pull out that one.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the same coach that started Devan George in game 1 against GS because he shit his pants in fear of Don Nelson.

[dbreiden83080]

"According to NBA sources, Johnson would have preferred that the team be kept intact with young point guard Devin Harris last season rather than trading for veteran Jason Kidd. But the trade was made, and the Mavericks went a disappointing 16-13 with Kidd and were knocked out in the first round of the playoffs"

And he was right. That trade made no sense as Kidd is like 70% maybe of what he was in his prime. The Mavs were not a team ready to win it all when they brought Kidd on. They had holes, Kidd did little to plug them up.

[T Park]

Who said that? I realize you have wet dreams about Avery taking over pop's position when he quits, and you'll be sorely dissapointed.


And yeah, Carlisle > Avery


:lmao

[T Park]

Avery lobbied hard for the Kidd trade and then washed his hands of the results after it was apparent that it was not a good move. And the Lakers were never willing to deal Kobe for Dirk. It doesn't take a genius to be in favor of that move.

Guess who else is relieved that he was given a pink slip? The entire Mavs organization and its fans.


Then what was with the reports in Dallas that Avery and Cuban got in a fight with Avery defending harris?


All you dallasians need to get on the same page with your stories.

[dbreiden83080]

The Bottom line in Dallas is, Cuban thinks he knows more about Basketball than his coaches. He is what Steinbrenner was in his prime with the Yanks. Al Davis may be old but he still thinks he knows it all. Cuban will make every coach miserable until that changes.

[dirk4mvp]

:lmao


good one, fatshit


It's gonna be fucking funny when Avery takes over the spurs and makes every single player on the team hate him and rather be traded than play for him.

[dbreiden83080]

good one, fatshit


It's gonna be fucking funny when Avery takes over the spurs and makes every single player on the team hate him and rather be traded than play for him.

And how easy is it for a coach to be thrown under a bus when your owner has his hand in everythinig and cuts his coaches legs off when it comes to authority?

[dirk4mvp]

So Cuban put a sticky note in everyone's locker telling them to hate him because he micromanaged everything while he was the coach?

[dirk4mvp]

It's pretty funny how Avery goes from being Benedict Arnold to a Saint because he's no longer the coach of the Mavericks.

[dbreiden83080]

So Cuban put a sticky note in everyone's locker telling them to hate him because he micromanaged everything while he was the coach?

Who cares if the players didn't like him? What is he their Daddy or Girlfriend? Most of the Yankees hated Billy Martin but they won championships. You think Bill Parcells made tons of player friends as a coach? The dude was a fucking hard-ass. Show up do your job. The problem is Cubans, relationship with the team sees to it the players don't respect the coach like they should. They just run to Cuban to bitch about things

[RsxPiimp]

Who said that? I realize you have wet dreams about Avery taking over pop's position when he quits, and you'll be sorely dissapointed.


And yeah, Carlisle > Avery

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[dirk4mvp]

RsxPiimp - Team: San Antonio Spurs

Saint Avery

[RsxPiimp]

come on man. you can see it coming everytime you spew garbage like that.


its like saying

wade>lebron

[mavsfan1000]

Avery sucks. Period Similar to Isaiah Thomas. Carlisle fixed that mess the next year after Thomas failed.

[RsxPiimp]

Avery sucks. Period Similar to Isaiah Thomas. Carlisle fixed that mess the next year after Thomas failed.

carlisle is another choker:lol

[RsxPiimp]

avery was not the problem


its that pussyfied excuse of an athlete named dirk and that dumb ass star spangled banner hating j-ho


idiots

[dirk4mvp]

Devan George should defiantly start at center in a playoff game.

[mavsfan1000]

avery was not the problem


its that pussyfied excuse of an athlete named dirk and that dumb ass star spangled banner hating j-ho


idiots
You get a kick in trolling I see. You couldn't really be this stupid. Carlisle teams always overachieve. No way Indiana should've won 60 games with such a weak offense.

[RsxPiimp]

You get a kick in trolling I see. You couldn't really be this stupid. Carlisle teams always overachieve. No way Indiana should've won 60 games with such a weak offense.

weak offense?


carlisle prides himself in defense.


and no thats not an underrated team.

[jack sommerset]

Avery BLOWS. That guy has no business being a NBA coach. He sucked as a PG too. Oh I forgot, he was the PG that "lead" the Spews to a *title. A 50 game sprint with David Robinson and Timmmmay and finished off the 8th seed Knicks lead by Sprewell.

[mavsfan1000]

weak offense?


carlisle prides himself in defense.


and no thats not an underrated team.
Artest sucks on offense. O'Neal is also overrated on offense. They both are volume shooters that don't shoot a high percentage. Indiana didn't have a true point guard or true center. Carlisle got that team to overachieve by making them a great defensive team.

[Findog]

Then what was with the reports in Dallas that Avery and Cuban got in a fight with Avery defending harris?


It was over Brandon Bass' playing time, not Harris and his role on the team.


All you dallasians need to get on the same page with your stories.

Why don't you stick to the Spurs forum? I know more about my team than you do.

[Trainwreck2100]

Seriously, Avery beats the Spurs in a game 7 after giving up a 3-1 series lead, AND he had help from Manu. And automatically he's a great coach? That single moment was the highlight of his coaching career, and that was the only playoff accomplishment he had. And don't give me the Suns WCF bull cause they got a friendly side of the bracket due to stuid ass seeding rules that year.

[SpursDynasty]

Even without the Jason Kidd trade, the Mavs would have been out of the playoffs in the second round. No team with Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry as it's core players will ever win a championship.

[timvp]

Avery lobbied hard for the Kidd trade and then washed his hands of the results after it was apparent that it was not a good move. And the Lakers were never willing to deal Kobe for Dirk. It doesn't take a genius to be in favor of that move.

Guess who else is relieved that he was given a pink slip? The entire Mavs organization and its fans.


Exactly. That's Avery the politician talking again and the contradictory personality that is him. He was ABSOLUTELY leading the charge for the Kidd trade. He rode Devin Harris' ass every day the kid was in a Mavs uniform. Complained to the media that Harris wasn't developing fast enough for his taste. Then politicked to move him out . Funny thing is, Harris was in the midst of his best statistical season when he left. Then he gets Kidd on board and what does he do? Alienates him by sitting him out the last few minutes of a tight ball game. Forces him to run a slow down, set offense.

I've said all along that AJ is full of shit. This is another in a long list of reasons why.

I can't believe so many Mav Fans/AJ Haters buy the all the crap from Cuban and the Dallas media. Of course they are going to blame AJ for everything. That's both Cuban's and the Dallas media's MO.

We'll see in the coming years how smart it was to dump AJ.

[Findog]

I can't believe so many Mav Fans/AJ Haters buy the all the crap from Cuban and the Dallas media. Of course they are going to blame AJ for everything. That's both Cuban's and the Dallas media's MO.

We'll see in the coming years how smart it was to dump AJ.

The Mavs don't have a championship roster, this year or last. Whether their coach is Sloan, Jackzen or Pop, or Avery or Carlisle doesn't change that. Avery is a very good coach who lost the locker room. It happens to every single coach in the league not named Sloan, Jackzen or Pop. That's partly his fault and partly the fault of his players. It was time for a change. I never said Avery was solely at fault for the failure of the Mavericks to close the deal the past three years. That said, his firing was the right move at the right time.

[exstatic]

Probably. It's obvious coaching isn't his forte.

Yeah, that .734 win % sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it?

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah, that .734 win % sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it?
This team was ready for a championship if they had the right coach. Avery wasn't it though. Now, they are older. Carlisle has to win with a weaker team than what Avery had.

[exstatic]

avery was not the problem


its that pussyfied excuse of an athlete named dirk and that dumb ass star spangled banner hating j-ho


idiots

I don't even like Avery, and I see this as the problem, too. Your franchise player has to have balls, not run home and cry to mama when they lose. It's not only about talent, it's about balls and heart, and Dirk lacks both.

[exstatic]

This team was ready for a championship if they had the right coach. Avery wasn't it though. Now, they are older. Carlisle has to win with a weaker team than what Avery had.

Who got them ready?

[mavsfan1000]

Who got them ready?
Don Nelson in 2004-2005. Avery took over and fucked up Dirk's best years.

[dirk4mvp]

Yeah, that .734 win % sticks out like a sore thumb, doesn't it?


LMAO yeah he was given such a shit squad when he took over. How did he ever do it?

[ElNono]

IMO, Carslile is a great coach, but not a championship caliber coach. And as far as being anal on defense, I think both Carslile and Avery are about the same.
Don't forget that Carslile built the Pistons that won a championship (with the exception of Rasheed), but he couldn't get them over the hump. Cue in Larry Brown for back to back final appearances, with a championship in the first season.

But we'll see. I'm with timvp in that you're going to look back in a few years and think different about that Avery run.

[jack sommerset]

IMO, Carslile is a great coach, but not a championship caliber coach. And as far as being anal on defense, I think both Carslile and Avery are about the same.
Don't forget that Carslile built the Pistons that won a championship (with the exception of Rasheed), but he couldn't get them over the hump. Cue in Larry Brown for back to back final appearances, with a championship in the first season.

But we'll see. I'm with timvp in that you're going to look back in a few years and think different about that Avery run.

Oh brother....... Nobody is going to look back and think AJ did a good job. The guy is a clown.

[exstatic]

Don Nelson in 2004-2005. Avery took over and fucked up Dirk's best years.

Don Nelson never led anyone anywhere except to first round upsets. He plays gimmick ball that flames out after a round or two in the playoffs. I see lots of complaints about AJ starting George in the one round of the playoffs. Nelson would have started him every game of every season and every round of every playoffs.

Dallas was an easy playoff mark under Nelson.

[dirk4mvp]

Don Nelson never led anyone anywhere except to first round upsets. He plays gimmick ball that flames out after a round or two in the playoffs. I see lots of complaints about AJ starting George in the one round of the playoffs. Nelson would have started him every game of every season and every round of every playoffs.





Exactly the point moron. If George was starting the entire season, Nelson wouldn't have shit his pants in fear of an 8th seed. He'd start the same team that won him 67 games.

Saint Avery.

[exstatic]

LMAO yeah he was given such a shit squad when he took over. How did he ever do it?

Don Nelson's best season in Dallas was 60 wins. AJ averaged that over his 3.5 years. It's called going to the next level.

[dirk4mvp]

neat. where'd that get him?

[exstatic]

neat. where'd that get him?

The Finals?

timvp's right. You guys are buying all of Cuban's shit. You'll look back fondly on the AJ years someday.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

The problem with Dallas is Dirk Nowitzki, he's not a leader, he's as soft as you can get. He doesn't play defense and as a result he can't demand the rest of the team to defend because he doesn't. As long as Dirk is the face of that franchise they won't win the championship. Avery knew that aswell, that's why he wanted to move him so badly. One day Cuban will wake up to himself and realise that aswell.

[dirk4mvp]

The Finals?

spur fans are usually quick to point out championships. why not here?


timvp's right.



LMAO another one of you guys. Why am I not surprised?

[exstatic]

The problem with Dallas is Dirk Nowitzki, he's not a leader, he's as soft as you can get. He doesn't play defense and as a result he can't demand the rest of the team to defend because he doesn't. As long as Dirk is the face of that franchise they won't win the championship. Avery knew that aswell, that's why he wanted to move him so badly. One day Cuban will wake up to himself and realise that aswell.

Cuban enables Dirk's weakness. AJ tired to make him a man and he got fired. Cubes told him everything was OK and that bad man is gone now.

[dirk4mvp]

None of it was Saint Avery's fault. Well, it isn't now that he's gone.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Cuban enables Dirk's weakness. AJ tired to make him a man and he got fired. Cubes told him everything was OK and that bad man is gone now.

Agree. As long as Dirk is there they will continue to play that run and gun shit and crash out early in the playoffs because that's the only style Dirk can play. That's the problem with the Mavs they don't have the mental toughness and gritt to defend and pull it out. Avery tried to make Dirk a man and implement those things but unfortunatley for him he had the wrong group of guys. Trading for Kidd was just the final nail in the coffin.

[mavsfan1000]

Agree. As long as Dirk is there they will continue to play that run and gun shit and crash out early in the playoffs because that's the only style Dirk can play. That's the problem with the Mavs they don't have the mental toughness and gritt to defend and pull it out. Avery tried to make Dirk a man and implement those things but unfortunatley for him he had the wrong group of guys. Trading for Kidd was just the final nail in the coffin.
Avery was the problem. Not Dirk.

[ducks]

I said it was aj or dirk it was dirk
stupid cuban

[confined]

:lol Dirk has been nothing but exceptional the past couple of years, anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete dumbass

and ducks, you type like you are either 11 years old or mentally retarded STFU :wakeup

[timvp]

I find the "Don Nelson gave AJ the keys to a championship team" take hilarious. The Mavs talent peaked before AJ even became coach. That '03 team with Dirk, Nash and Finley in his prime was more talented than the '06 team that beat the Spurs. That '04 team with their Big Three plus Antawn freakin' Jamison coming off the bench might have been even better than the '03 team.

The '05 Mavs team wasn't very good and AJ got them to the second round. The '06 Mavs team was improved talent wise but not as talented as '03 or '04 and he got that team almost to a damn championship. That '06 Mav team was not that talented. JHo, Terry, Stackhouse and Harris? Pretty decent talent but championship talent? No way. If that Mav team had won the championship, I'd say they would have been the least talented championship team since the '79 Sonics.

The '06 Mavs were a very, very good team but talent wise, they should have really been about a 52-win team and out in the second round. Now compare that to '03 or '04 when the Mavs had two first ballot Hall of Famers and a number of talented players and it's no contest. But Nellie was such a gimmick coach that after about one playoff game, Pop had those Nellie Mavs figured out.

I'm not ready to close the book on the Mavs' championship aspirations because Dirk is as talented as anyone in the league but I don't think bringing in Carlisle and giving Cuban even more power is heading in the right direction. At the very least, AJ wasn't afraid to bump heads with Cuban. If Carlisle doesn't stand up for himself, that ship could sink fast.

[mavsfan1000]

I find the "Don Nelson gave AJ the keys to a championship team" take hilarious. The Mavs talent peaked before AJ even became coach. That '03 team with Dirk, Nash and Finley in his prime was more talented than the '06 team that beat the Spurs. That '04 team with their Big Three plus Antawn freakin' Jamison coming off the bench might have been even better than the '03 team.

The '05 Mavs team wasn't very good and AJ got them to the second round. The '06 Mavs team was improved talent wise but not as talented as '03 or '04 and he got that team almost to a damn championship. That '06 Mav team was not that talented. JHo, Terry, Stackhouse and Harris? Pretty decent talent but championship talent? No way. If that Mav team had won the championship, I'd say they would have been the least talented championship team since the '79 Sonics.

The '06 Mavs were a very, very good team but talent wise, they should have really been about a 52-win team and out in the second round. Now compare that to '03 or '04 when the Mavs had two first ballot Hall of Famers and a number of talented players and it's no contest. But Nellie was such a gimmick coach that after about one playoff game, Pop had those Nellie Mavs figured out.

I'm not ready to close the book on the Mavs' championship aspirations because Dirk is as talented as anyone in the league but I don't think bringing in Carlisle and giving Cuban even more power is heading in the right direction. At the very least, AJ wasn't afraid to bump heads with Cuban. If Carlisle doesn't stand up for himself, that ship could sink fast.
The 06 Mavs team was the most well-rounded team. They had Dampier and Diop to clog the middle on defense while they had some offensive slashers and outside shooters. Terry and Howard were in their primes and Harris was just starting to get some real good quality minutes. The Mavs in 03 were very good offensively but lacked in rebounding. Mainly defensive rebounding. They had some holes on defense that Sacramento was able to punish in the playoffs. The spurs as well. So imo 06>03 in chemistry. Talent is not as important as chemistry.

[dirk4mvp]

It's no surprise the Mavericks made a deeper than usual playoff run when they had a few bigs that didn't end up on posters every night.

[Findog]

That '03 team with Dirk, Nash and Finley in his prime was more talented than the '06 team that beat the Spurs.

They might have had a bit more talent, but they weren't a better team. They got by using a zone defense most of the year.


That '04 team with their Big Three plus Antawn freakin' Jamison coming off the bench might have been even better than the '03 team.

That team was beset by chemistry problems and didn't play any defense. And you can't say they might have been better. They won 8 fewer games and went out in the first round to a team they beat the previous season, when they advanced to the conference finals. Games are played on the hardwood, not paper.



The '05 Mavs team wasn't very good and AJ got them to the second round.

In what world is winning 58 games and losing to the first SSOL Suns team "not very good?" Oh right, Avery took over the Bad News Bears and coached them up to overachieve. :rolleyes



The '06 Mavs were a very, very good team but talent wise, they should have really been about a 52-win team and out in the second round.

They played defense, had great chemistry and featured Dirk at his apex. Avery got them to buy into his concept and they rode it all the way to the Finals. Why did the Mavs lose in the Finals? Dirk was inconsistent in that series, putting up three very good games and three mediocre ones, while Avery's buttcheeks tightened up and he altered the game plan. They ran on the Spurs and won. They slowed it down versus Phoenix and own. They should've run on Miami and if they had, there wouldn't have been anything Dwyane Wade could've done to prevent the Mavs from hoisting the LOB. But Avery clenched up.



Now compare that to '03 or '04 when the Mavs had two first ballot Hall of Famers and a number of talented players and it's no contest.

The 06 team would beat the 03 and 04 teams in a playoff series. Avery deserves a lot of credit for the 06 team going as far as it did but so did Dirk. I find it hilarious that people want to give Avery or Dirk all the credit for the team's successes, or want to put the entire blame for Miami and Golden State on one or the other.




I'm not ready to close the book on the Mavs' championship aspirations

I am, but that has more to do with LA, Portland and Utah being on the ascendence than anything to do with Dallas.



but I don't think bringing in Carlisle and giving Cuban even more power is heading in the right direction. At the very least, AJ wasn't afraid to bump heads with Cuban. If Carlisle doesn't stand up for himself, that ship could sink fast


So they should have stuck with Avery when he had worn out his welcome and the players were no longer responding to him? What other coach out there should they have picked up, since keeping Avery was the worst thing they could have done? I think he's a good coach, but his warranty expired in Dallas. Avery is a drill sergeant type of coach, and only Sloan and Pop have the clout and the notches on the bedpost to pull that kind of shit.

[Findog]

The Finals?

timvp's right. You guys are buying all of Cuban's shit. You'll look back fondly on the AJ years someday.

Cuban has never failed to give Avery credit for the role that he played in the team's successes. Find me a Jerry Jones-esque quote where he says 500 coaches, including Jerry Tarkanian, could've done what Avery did.

The bottom line is that Avery lost the locker room and the team was underachieving. It was time to make a change. Maybe if you got Avery's nuts off your chin you'd realize that. I don't presume to know more about the Spurs than you or timvp. You guys sure as fuck don't know more about the Mavs than I do.

[MajorMike]

I think AJ is a weasel but any Mavs fan not saying he was the best (or 2nd if you worship Nellie) coach the Mavs have ever had is just chewing sour grapes and wanting to blame him for the choke-o-rama in the Finals. Only problem is, if you blame him for it, you have to give him credit for getting you there as well (which no other coach has done).

[ElNono]

All Avery did was make them play stingy defense day in and day out. Players in general don't like that, so you need a coach that calls them out when they're slacking on D. Eventually, it rubs the wrong way. Most players probably think Pop, Sloan and Larry Brown are assholes, but they're successful. The things with those guys is that you need an owner that buys into that vision of winning with D, and backs them up. Cuban instead wants to buddy-buddy with the players, so that's not going to happen.

I agree AJ worn down his relationship with the locker room. At that point, either the coach goes or part of the locker room goes. Cuban chose AJ. We'll see how it pays off for him.

[Findog]

I think AJ is a weasel but any Mavs fan not saying he was the best (or 2nd if you worship Nellie) coach the Mavs have ever had is just chewing sour grapes and wanting to blame him for the choke-o-rama in the Finals. Only problem is, if you blame him for it, you have to give him credit for getting you there as well (which no other coach has done).

Avery is the third-best coach in Mavs history, behind Nellie and Motta. They both built 50-win teams from scratch, he took over a 50-win team and made them better...at least for the first two and a half years of his tenure.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There's something to be said for timing and expectations. At this point Don Nelson and his gimmicky game plans probably wont' take any team to the next level, but he's great at rebuilding. AJ could be a great "next step" kind of guy. If their order was reversed I think both would have been dismal failures in Dallas. AJ's personality probably wouldn't have done much for a franchise in the toilet, and Nellie preaching "Big O, No D" to a contender in the face of recent history would probably have gone over like a lead balloon. But as it was Nellie's up tempo, high energy game is just the sort of thing that can revitalize a franchise (the Kings, Warriors, and Suns, for instance). And without the postseason failures they probably aren't nearly as receptive to a figure like AJ who was a near 180 to Don Nelson in many ways. Don't know if I'd necessarily say one is better than the other, just that they were the right man for the job at the time.

The one glaring thing they do have in common is that they left on less than cordial terms with Cuban and no matter what happens in the coming seasons I expect that every coach the Mavs have will leave that way while he owns them.

[Cane]

AJ's personality definitely doesn't mesh well if he's not in control of the situation. In addition his way of motivation definitely has annoyed the members he's been associated with including the Spurs when he was a PG. Because of this, it'd be very difficult to take orders from someone with an annoying voice, personality, and bumps heads with the other chiefs on the Mavs organization repeatedly. There was no way Cuban and co, and any ballclub with a similar leadership setup, can handle AJ for a coaching contract as long as the one he had.

AJ also lost a ton of respect from the Mavs with 'lackluster' postseason performances and after you lose that, you're FUBAR.

[monosylab1k]

Wow I didn't realize timvp was that big of an Avery knobslobber.

As much as I loved seeing him leave, things weren't all Avery's fault. I have homeristic hopes for this team but Carlisle along isn't going to bring about some great change. And Avery absolutely lobbied for the Kidd deal. He gave up on Devin Harris about a month into the season, anybody who actually watches the Mavericks and follows them knows that. It's hilarious to see Spurs fans who follow the Spurs acting like they know more about the Mavericks than the fans who actually follow the Mavericks. And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.

[monosylab1k]

It's pretty funny how Avery goes from being Benedict Arnold to a Saint because he's no longer the coach of the Mavericks.

:tu x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000

It's even funnier how Spurs fans didn't acknowledge this post because they know it's true.

[Rainman]

I can't believe so many Mav Fans/AJ Haters buy the all the crap from Cuban and the Dallas media. Of course they are going to blame AJ for everything. That's both Cuban's and the Dallas media's MO.

We'll see in the coming years how smart it was to dump AJ.

I still remember AJ making smart adjustments against the Rockets and JVG being outcoached by him. AJ was a very good coach and his personality of a get your job done no nonsense kind of guy is the only reason Dirk stepped up. Some guys have to be pushed by the coach because they don't have the self motivation to get there on their own.

If Cuban wants to make all the top decisions for that organization he can't expect to still have the right to hold the coach accountable and point fingers when things go bad. Cuban has no one to blame but himself for what happened to the Mavs.

[Rainman]

The problem with Dallas is Dirk Nowitzki, he's not a leader, he's as soft as you can get. He doesn't play defense and as a result he can't demand the rest of the team to defend because he doesn't. As long as Dirk is the face of that franchise they won't win the championship. Avery knew that aswell, that's why he wanted to move him so badly. One day Cuban will wake up to himself and realise that aswell.

Don't forget how Cuban figured Steve Nash was over the hill and didn't deserve to be signed to what was it a four year deal that he got from the Suns. That decision costs them the title more than any coaching decisions made by AJ. When he let Nash walk that was the beginning of the end for the Mavs.

[dirk4mvp]

Don't forget how Cuban figured Steve Nash was over the hill and didn't deserve to be signed to what was it a four year deal that he got from the Suns. That decision costs them the title more than any coaching decisions made by AJ. When he let Nash walk that was the beginning of the end for the Mavs.


Since you're not being serious, I'll just :lol

[Biernutz]

If Cuban wants to make all the decisions and coach the team let him!---That's worked pretty well for Jerry Jones.

[dude1394]

If Cuban wants to make all the decisions and coach the team let him!---That's worked pretty well for Jerry Jones.

Now how many championships has Jerry Jones won?

[Biernutz]

In his mind he was the reason they won them.

[monosylab1k]

That decision costs them the title more than any coaching decisions made by AJ.

:lmao before he even had the head coaching job, AJ was in Cuban's ear telling him to dump Nash and get a traditional big man, a la Erick Dampier.

[monosylab1k]

I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Now that we've got the stock response out of the way, give me a REAL reason why Pop hasn't hired Avery yet.....you know, since Tim Duncan loves Avery so much and all.

[monosylab1k]

This was a nice little quote from db.com


1. Avery takes a job in Bristol. Because he wants to spend some more time with his family. Which lives in Houston.

[SenorSpur]

Avery's strengths were game preparation, attention to detail and motivation. His weaknesses were making in-game adjustments, taking input for assistant coaches and his stubborn belief in his system. Thereby, rendering him and his strategy predictable. He is such a micro-manager that he was the only coach in the NBA who tried to coach every single possession of every game. His shelf-life was up.

[Findog]

And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.

Are you calling Avery a Republican?

[Obstructed_View]

I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Wanna know why it's the stock reason? Because it is the reason. It's not like AJ wasn't around the Spurs organization before the season started. There was talk that Pop wanted to hire him, but the big stumbling block is that he'd have to forefeit the money from Cuban. What part of that is so impossible to understand?

Spurs players probably wouldn't get angry at AJ if he were a coach, because they already work hard and play defense, and if someone tried to go over his head and blubber to the owner, they'd get their asses handed to them.

[timvp]

The 06 Mavs team was the most well-rounded team. They had Dampier and Diop to clog the middle on defense while they had some offensive slashers and outside shooters. The 06 Mavs were the best Mavs team because they played precision offense and stellar defense. Neither trait was a result of Nellie ball and both can be directly attributed to AJ.


It's no surprise the Mavericks made a deeper than usual playoff run when they had a few bigs that didn't end up on posters every night.:lmao

So the Mavs made a bigger push in the playoffs because they traded Nash for Dampier. Not because they actually started playing a brand of basketball that is made for the playoffs instead of the gimmick years of 2001 thru 2005.


They might have had a bit more talent, but they weren't a better team. They got by using a zone defense most of the year.Zone is part of Nellie ball. AJ took away gimmicks that Nellie used, which you credit simply as become a "team" or whatever.


In what world is winning 58 games and losing to the first SSOL Suns team "not very good?" Oh right, Avery took over the Bad News Bears and coached them up to overachieve. :rolleyesIn the world of championship basketball.


They played defense, had great chemistry and featured Dirk at his apex. Avery got them to buy into his concept and they rode it all the way to the Finals. Why did the Mavs lose in the Finals? Dirk was inconsistent in that series, putting up three very good games and three mediocre ones, while Avery's buttcheeks tightened up and he altered the game plan. They ran on the Spurs and won. They slowed it down versus Phoenix and own. They should've run on Miami and if they had, there wouldn't have been anything Dwyane Wade could've done to prevent the Mavs from hoisting the LOB. But Avery clenched up. Harris and Terry were the ones who clenched. Harris finally came back down to earth and played like Devin Harris instead of Kevin Johnson like he did against the Spurs. AJ deserves some blame but this postmortem quarterbacking to give AJ most of the blame is quite humorous.



The 06 team would beat the 03 and 04 teams in a playoff series. Avery deserves a lot of credit for the 06 team going as far as it did but so did Dirk. Never said Dirk shouldn't get credit. But AJ coached his azz off during the playoff run. Outside of Phil Jackson, I've never seen Pop as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that series.


I don't presume to know more about the Spurs than you or timvp. You guys sure as fuck don't know more about the Mavs than I do.I've followed AJ for damn near 20 years. I know how his coaches ... considering he was the de facto coach from about 1994 to 2001 in San Antonio. I know how he basketball mind works. If you want to dismiss what I say, that's fine. I don't really care.


Wow I didn't realize timvp was that big of an Avery knobslobber.You must be new to the internet.

Seriously, I'll always be a fan of AJ. He gave the Spurs the toughness and the single-mindedness to become a championship team. He was a huge part of creating the culture on the court and off the court that the Spurs have used to get to where they are.

I was a fan of AJ even when he went to Dallas and Spurs fans turned their back on him. I said he'd be a great head coach and judging by him being the all-time leader in winning percentage, I think it's safe to say his coaching career is off to a good start.


And Avery absolutely lobbied for the Kidd deal. He gave up on Devin Harris about a month into the season, anybody who actually watches the Mavericks and follows them knows that. It's hilarious to see Spurs fans who follow the Spurs acting like they know more about the Mavericks than the fans who actually follow the Mavericks. And for Avery to spin that Kidd deal as him being against the idea is a complete bold faced lie. From a so-called man of God, no less.AJ did give up on Harris, that I agree with. AJ never forgave Harris for clenching during the Heat and Warriors series.

But there's no way in hell AJ would have been for the Kidd trade. You are talking about the most anal retentive coach in the league who loves running a structured offense. There is no way he wanted to bring in Kidd who is basically the exact opposite of that. AJ would never want to give up the reigns on the offense and give it to a freestyler like Kidd. I'm sure he smiled in front of the cameras and told how much he wanted the trade but if you know how stubborn AJ about his offense sets, you'd know he would totally be against getting Kidd. I'm sure you'll believe Cuban and the Dallas media and place the blame on AJ for that trade but I'm 100% positive that is BS. The day Kidd got traded to the Mavs was the day AJ got fired. I mean, AJ showed how much he wanted Kidd by benching his azz shortly after the trade :lol


:tu x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000

It's even funnier how Spurs fans didn't acknowledge this post because they know it's true.I've always been an AJ knobslobber.

No homo.


:lmao before he even had the head coaching job, AJ was in Cuban's ear telling him to dump Nash and get a traditional big man, a la Erick Dampier.Was AJ also on the grassy knoll?


I just want every Avery knobslobber to tell me one thing - if he's so beloved by the Spurs, why doesn't he have an assistant coach gig by now?

Here's the stock response from you guys: "He'd rather just sit on his ass and take Cuban's money! Hahahahahah suck on that Mav fan!"

Now that we've got the stock response out of the way, give me a REAL reason why Pop hasn't hired Avery yet.....you know, since Tim Duncan loves Avery so much and all.Plenty of reasons. First of all, the money is undeniable. If you either could make $4M and do whatever you wanted or lose $4M and work, what would you do? Dismissing that as a reason is pretty damn funny.

Secondly, the Spurs already have a lead assistant coach and another coach waiting in the wings to become the lead assistant. Bringing in AJ to trump those two coaches isn't something Pop would do, especially considering the lead assistant spent 16 years in the organization before moving up to where he is.

And besides, did you see the news of AJ helping out during training camp? If Pop and Duncan hated him so much, why was he there? And in 2003 when the Spurs were about to face the Lakers, who did Duncan consult with to go over strategy? One Avery Johnson.


This was a nice little quote from db.comDoes db.com know that airplanes have been invented? WTF?

:lmao @ comparing coaching and being a talking head for a few hours a week. Dallas is amazing. I've never city so great at trashing fallen sports stars.

[Obstructed_View]

Never said Dirk shouldn't get credit. But AJ coached his azz off during the playoff run. Outside of Phil Jackson, I've never seen Pop as thoroughly outcoached as he was in that series.

Quoted for truth.

[monosylab1k]

You must be new to the internet.

:lol i knew you were an Avery knobslobber (nohomo) but not to this extent.

I appreciate the things Avery did, and I hate how things ended for him in Dallas. I really do. And I think if Avery can keep the intensity and motivation while losing the Gestapo behavior, he'll win a title as a head coach, probably more than one.

But the one big hangup I have is the Kidd trade. I'm sorry but every single report in Dallas early in the season was that Avery had given up on Devin and demanded that Mark get him a point guard with a clue to run the team. I think if you look back even here at SpursTalk you'll see that most Mavs fans believed Avery was the loudest voice that demanded a smarter PG.

For Avery to then turn things around and say bullshit like "I was a father to Devin, I turned him into a 17/10 point guard (*both stats being complete lies as well), and I never wanted the Kidd trade" is sickening. It is 100% a lie and he knows it.

[monosylab1k]

Wanna know why it's the stock reason? Because it is the reason.

It's not. It's the convenient excuse.

If Avery was so beloved, why didn't he get any serious consideration for one of the vacant head coaching jobs? Why didn't one of his former teammates, Steve Kerr, not even give him so much as a courtesy call in regard to the Suns open HC gig?

Did Avery send a memo to every GM in the league that said "Hey fellas, I know every one of you wants to break down my door and take me away to coach your team, but don't bother even calling me. I'm gonna sit on my ass and take Mark Cuban's money! Hahahahaha!"

[monosylab1k]

And for the record, in my case this is not just some desperate "throw Avery under the bus after everything blew up". I know Mark Cuban has done that, and I think it's stupid and childish for him to behave like that (although what does Mark do that isn't stupid and childish?).

I think most Mavs fans here can vouch for that fact that I've been very critical of Avery for quite some time before this season, and that I wanted him fired a year before he actually got fired. I even made the ridiculous assertion a year ago that Scott Skiles was a better coach.

[ElNono]

And for the record, in my case this is not just some desperate "throw Avery under the bus after everything blew up". I know Mark Cuban has done that, and I think it's stupid and childish for him to behave like that (although what does Mark do that isn't stupid and childish?).

I think most Mavs fans here can vouch for that fact that I've been very critical of Avery for quite some time before this season, and that I wanted him fired a year before he actually got fired. I even made the ridiculous assertion a year ago that Scott Skiles was a better coach.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

It's not. It's the convenient excuse.

If Avery was so beloved, why didn't he get any serious consideration for one of the vacant head coaching jobs? Why didn't one of his former teammates, Steve Kerr, not even give him so much as a courtesy call in regard to the Suns open HC gig?

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you know that he didn't? You make these statements that sound like you were sitting in the room when things happened. You know less than the writers do who said that AJ was a candidate for the Knicks, the Suns, the Bulls and the Pistons job. Many of them wrote that he was a longshot because he was still getting paid by Mark Cuban and was likely to take an analyst job with one of the networks.

Considering you're title already says "Fire Carlisle", the fact that you were one of the first to call for AJ's head doesn't make you smart, at best it means you know the team and the town. I predicted in this forum that things would go bad between Cuban and AJ and he'd get the blame for every bad decision the team made.

[Findog]

I've followed AJ for damn near 20 years. I know how his coaches ... considering he was the de facto coach from about 1994 to 2001 in San Antonio. I know how he basketball mind works. If you want to dismiss what I say, that's fine. I don't really care.

I'm not discounting what you have to say, I'm only judging Avery based on his tenure in Dallas. He's a good coach, and he deserves a large portion of credit for what the team accomplished here. At the same time, there's a reason he's no longer the coach.

I don't think it's an either/or proposition. We're going to find out this season that some of the things that led to a failure to meet expectations last year were indeed Avery's fault...and some other things are not.

As for his role in the Kidd trade, all of the beat writers covering the team, and most people plugged in, agree that Avery gave up on Harris early in the year and began demanding Cuban acquire a veteran PG. The consensus is that he was fully on board with the Kidd trade, and then developed reservations once it publicly fell apart, and his enthusiasm was muted once the talks were revived and the trade ultimately went through.

What is false is when Avery claimed that he was totally 100% against the Kidd trade, and that he regarded Harris as some sort of surrogate son. He was begging Cuban to take Devin off his hands.

[monosylab1k]

I'm sorry, but how exactly do you know that he didn't? You make these statements that sound like you were sitting in the room when things happened. You know less than the writers do who said that AJ was a candidate for the Knicks, the Suns, the Bulls and the Pistons job. Many of them wrote that he was a longshot because he was still getting paid by Mark Cuban and was likely to take an analyst job with one of the networks.

Considering you're title already says "Fire Carlisle", the fact that you were one of the first to call for AJ's head doesn't make you smart, at best it means you know the team and the town. I predicted in this forum that things would go bad between Cuban and AJ and he'd get the blame for every bad decision the team made.

Ummmmm there was an article saying that Kerr didn't bother looking into hiring Avery. Posted right here on SpursTalk if you want to look it up. I guess if you paid attention you'd have read it.

And I missed the part where titles were some ultimate truth, and not to be used for humorous purposes. I guess I'm an Oklahoma City Thunder fan too, just because it says so.

[Obstructed_View]

Ummmmm there was an article saying that Kerr didn't bother looking into hiring Avery. Posted right here on SpursTalk if you want to look it up. I guess if you paid attention you'd have read it.

No, I remember it. Buck Harvey wrote it, so it wasn't exactly a "news article". It was about how Kerr hates AJ because he kicked a chair once. The article also said that AJ would make more money by not taking the Suns job than he would if he took it; one of the few actual facts in the piece.

Actually, if Steve Kerr hates AJ personally then whether or not he did a good job with the Mavericks was never an issue, and you answered your own question from a few posts back. If what Buck says is true, then AJ could have won three titles in a row and Kerr wasn't going to hire him.

[monosylab1k]

No, I remember it. Buck Harvey wrote it, so it wasn't exactly a "news article". It was about how Kerr hates AJ because he kicked a chair once. The article also said that AJ would make more money by not taking the Suns job than he would if he took it; one of the few actual facts in the piece.

Actually, if Steve Kerr hates AJ personally then whether or not he did a good job with the Mavericks was never an issue, and you answered your own question from a few posts back. If what Buck says is true, then AJ could have won three titles in a row and Kerr wasn't going to hire him.

:lol this knobslobbing is wonderful. if anything, that article would dispel the "Avery is the most beloved human being to ever live" myth that his knobslobbers throw out there. Although I'm sure they'll still insist that Tim Duncan gushes over Avery and wants to have his babies.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

[dirk4mvp]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

More defense for Saint Avery! You obviously don't have a clue about what you're babbling about.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol this knobslobbing is wonderful. if anything, that article would dispel the "Avery is the most beloved human being to ever live" myth that his knobslobbers throw out there. Although I'm sure they'll still insist that Tim Duncan gushes over Avery and wants to have his babies.

I'm certainly not surprised that, when faced with facts, your only response is to dream up something that nobody actually said and ridicule it. I'm not any more of an AJ slobber than you are a Cuban slobber. Suggesting that AJ's a crap coach because Steve Kerr didn't hire him is kind of stupid if it's true that Kerr hated AJ when they played together.

[MavDynasty]

Let me put this into perspective for you Mavs fans. Avery was the best chance you had of winning a championship. His record speaks for itself. Avery knew what win’s championships and he tried to implement that style into the Mavs but he had the wrong cattle. Dallas was more of a threat to win it with Avery than without. Now that Avery is gone your championship window is closed.

You can bring Carlisle, give the floor to the washed up Jason Kidd and play that regular season style Basketball all you want. But when it comes to the post season and it turns into a half court game you need to have the mental toughness to grind it out, defend and get stops.

That’s what Avery tried to bring in but he had a so called franchise player in Dirk that was letting him down, Dirk can’t take the game by the scruff of the neck, Dirk is too soft to make the Mavs a fierce defensive team. He isn’t the player to build around unless you want to win the regular season.

We all know what win’s championships but obviously Dirk and the Mavs don’t. The Mavs got rid of the wrong guy and as a Spurs fan I love it because you’re no longer a threat. When you continuously fall short in the post season you’ll eventually realize that Avery wasn’t the problem it was Dirk and Cuban. You don’t’ know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

dumbass plz dont talk ever again.

[MavDynasty]

Damn timvp,you kick ass!

[AC#21_TD ERA]

dumbass plz dont talk ever again.


More defense for Saint Avery! You obviously don't have a clue about what you're babbling about.

GO AND WIN THE REGULAR SEASON AGAIN. YOUR WINDOW IS CLOSED. YOU SHOULD OF LISTENED TO AVERY AND TRADED DIRK FOR GARNETT WHEN YOU HAD THE CHANCE. K.G WOULD OF BRANG IN A DEFENSIVE CULTURE THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.

[dirk4mvp]

GO AND WIN THE REGULAR SEASON AGAIN. YOUR WINDOW IS CLOSED. YOU SHOULD OF LISTENED TO AVERY AND TRADED DIRK FOR GARNETT WHEN YOU HAD THE CHANCE. K.G WOULD OF BRANG IN A DEFENSIVE CULTURE THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.


You're right. He would have passed up on game winning shot to let somebody like Devan George to shoot them, whereas Dirk actually attempts them.

[dirk4mvp]

saint Avery Does No Wrong!

[monosylab1k]

Suggesting that AJ's a crap coach

I didn't say he was a crap coach. He's a good coach with some seriously bad personality traits that, unless he fixes them, will prevent him from being a great coach.