McDonald: Spurs Reserve Faces Crucial Days

[duncan228]

Spurs reserve faces crucial days (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_reserve_faces_crucial_days.html)
By Jeff McDonald

In the second half of his Spurs preseason debut Saturday, Salim Stoudamire attempted something he'd recommend no player recovering from a strained groin try.

The high hurdles.

Stoudamire was closing in fast on Indiana's T.J. Ford, when the Pacers guard abruptly stopped his drive and up-faked. The move sent a surprised Stoudamire leaping over Ford's head and, ultimately, crashing shoulder-first into the court.

The entire AT&T Center seemed to cringe at once.

“It wasn't as bad as it looked,” Stoudamire said afterward.

Stoudamire came out of his first preseason game no worse for wear, an important first step in his bid to make the Spurs and revive his flailing career. He had been out of practice since Sept. 30 with an injured left groin.

The 26-year-old former Atlanta Hawks guard is in camp on a make-good deal. In order to guarantee the full value of his contract, he must first earn a roster spot.

In that regard, he is guaranteed nothing, and he knows it.

“It's do-or-die as far as my situation is concerned,” Stoudamire said. “It's a challenge, and I'm looking forward to it.”

Over the next eight days, leading up to the NBA's Oct. 27 deadline for roster cuts, Stoudamire will do his best to earn a nameplate over his locker at the AT&T Center. At the very least, perhaps he can force the Spurs to recover the one belonging to his older cousin Damon, who appeared in 38 games with the team last season, out of the trash heap.

One thing working in Stoudamire's favor: His resume contains real NBA experience, and Spurs coach Gregg Popovich tends to prefer players who have demonstrated they can play in the league.

Taken by Atlanta with the first pick in the second round of the 2005 draft, Stoudamire spent his first three seasons with the Hawks — though a falling out with coach Mike Woodson eventually precipitated his departure this offseason.

One thing working against Stoudamire in San Antonio: Simple mathematics.

The Spurs already have three points guard with guaranteed contracts — Tony Parker, Jacque Vaughn and rookie George Hill.

Popovich says he would have to think long and hard about keeping a fourth point man.

“That would be difficult to do,” Popovich said. “Salim knows he's in a tough spot. He hasn't been able to play. So he's going to want to show us he's got skills we can't resist.”

Stoudamire, a career 40.7 percent shooter, wasn't irresistible in his preseason debut against the Pacers, but was intriguing.

The Spurs believe he could serve the same purpose Eddie House did for the Boston Celtics last season, providing quick-strike offense in well-timed spurts off the bench.

Ten seconds into his first-quarter stint Saturday, Stoudamire showed why, uncoiling his smooth left-handed stroke and draining a 17-footer.

He finished with eight points on 3-of-11 shooting in 21 minutes of the Spurs' 106-98 victory. Not bad for shaking off the rust.

“It's always hard when you haven't played for a while,” Parker said, “but I thought he did all right.”

If the Spurs do decide to keep Stoudamire, there are steps they could take to loosen the logjam at point guard.

They could look to trade Vaughn, who is in the final year of a reasonable contract that would pay him $1.2 million this season.

Popovich, however, values Vaughn for his steady hand and leadership, as well his potential to mentor the newcomer Hill. So the Spurs might rather keep him around.

Stoudamire could become more attractive to the point-guard laden Spurs if he shows he could play shooting guard as well. At 6-foot-1, he would be undersized for that role on a consistent basis, but could be of use against smaller lineups.

“The other possibility is if he could play some ‘two' (shooting guard) or George Hill could play some ‘two,'” Popovich said. “If he played well enough to make us think in that direction, we could do it with a different sort of flexibility — using Salim and George as ‘one-twos,' so to speak.”

[Flux451]

That last idea sounds interesting.
I hope we keep Farmer/Salim. I also like the idea of Bolliver because they would both be playing there hearts out competitively.




Spurs reserve faces crucial days (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_reserve_faces_crucial_days.html)
By Jeff McDonald

In the second half of his Spurs preseason debut Saturday, Salim Stoudamire attempted something he'd recommend no player recovering from a strained groin try.

The high hurdles.

Stoudamire was closing in fast on Indiana's T.J. Ford, when the Pacers guard abruptly stopped his drive and up-faked. The move sent a surprised Stoudamire leaping over Ford's head and, ultimately, crashing shoulder-first into the court.

The entire AT&T Center seemed to cringe at once.

“It wasn't as bad as it looked,” Stoudamire said afterward.

Stoudamire came out of his first preseason game no worse for wear, an important first step in his bid to make the Spurs and revive his flailing career. He had been out of practice since Sept. 30 with an injured left groin.

The 26-year-old former Atlanta Hawks guard is in camp on a make-good deal. In order to guarantee the full value of his contract, he must first earn a roster spot.

In that regard, he is guaranteed nothing, and he knows it.

“It's do-or-die as far as my situation is concerned,” Stoudamire said. “It's a challenge, and I'm looking forward to it.”

Over the next eight days, leading up to the NBA's Oct. 27 deadline for roster cuts, Stoudamire will do his best to earn a nameplate over his locker at the AT&T Center. At the very least, perhaps he can force the Spurs to recover the one belonging to his older cousin Damon, who appeared in 38 games with the team last season, out of the trash heap.

One thing working in Stoudamire's favor: His resume contains real NBA experience, and Spurs coach Gregg Popovich tends to prefer players who have demonstrated they can play in the league.

Taken by Atlanta with the first pick in the second round of the 2005 draft, Stoudamire spent his first three seasons with the Hawks — though a falling out with coach Mike Woodson eventually precipitated his departure this offseason.

One thing working against Stoudamire in San Antonio: Simple mathematics.

The Spurs already have three points guard with guaranteed contracts — Tony Parker, Jacque Vaughn and rookie George Hill.

Popovich says he would have to think long and hard about keeping a fourth point man.

“That would be difficult to do,” Popovich said. “Salim knows he's in a tough spot. He hasn't been able to play. So he's going to want to show us he's got skills we can't resist.”

Stoudamire, a career 40.7 percent shooter, wasn't irresistible in his preseason debut against the Pacers, but was intriguing.

The Spurs believe he could serve the same purpose Eddie House did for the Boston Celtics last season, providing quick-strike offense in well-timed spurts off the bench.

Ten seconds into his first-quarter stint Saturday, Stoudamire showed why, uncoiling his smooth left-handed stroke and draining a 17-footer.

He finished with eight points on 3-of-11 shooting in 21 minutes of the Spurs' 106-98 victory. Not bad for shaking off the rust.

“It's always hard when you haven't played for a while,” Parker said, “but I thought he did all right.”

If the Spurs do decide to keep Stoudamire, there are steps they could take to loosen the logjam at point guard.

They could look to trade Vaughn, who is in the final year of a reasonable contract that would pay him $1.2 million this season.

Popovich, however, values Vaughn for his steady hand and leadership, as well his potential to mentor the newcomer Hill. So the Spurs might rather keep him around.

Stoudamire could become more attractive to the point-guard laden Spurs if he shows he could play shooting guard as well. At 6-foot-1, he would be undersized for that role on a consistent basis, but could be of use against smaller lineups.

“The other possibility is if he could play some ‘two' (shooting guard) or George Hill could play some ‘two,'” Popovich said. “If he played well enough to make us think in that direction, we could do it with a different sort of flexibility — using Salim and George as ‘one-twos,' so to speak.”

[Tully365]

He finished with eight points on 3-of-11 shooting... Not bad for shaking off the rust.

How is shooting 27% not bad, especially from a guy not known for defense?

[jayc23]

cut him

[Amuseddaysleeper]

cut him

seriously

[Allanon]

Salim probably has the most unknown talent upside of the current camp players. But coming in this late, I don't think he'll have a chance to impress. He's a goner.

[Manufan909]

Salim probably has the most unknown talent upside of the current camp players. But coming in this late, I don't think he'll have a chance to impress. He's a goner.

From your mouth to Pop's beard. As long as Hairston or Farmer make it, I'm half ok. But the other half being Salim or Gaines would ruin it for me.

[timvp]

“That would be difficult to do,” Popovich said. “Salim knows he's in a tough spot. He hasn't been able to play. So he's going to want to show us he's got skills we can't resist.”

“The other possibility is if he could play some ‘two' (shooting guard) or George Hill could play some ‘two,'” Popovich said. “If he played well enough to make us think in that direction, we could do it with a different sort of flexibility — using Salim and George as ‘one-twos,' so to speak.”
Interesting quotes from Pop. It's like he's talking himself into how he'd justify keeping Hill, Vaughn and Stoudamire.



If the Spurs do decide to keep Stoudamire, there are steps they could take to loosen the logjam at point guard.

They could look to trade Vaughn, who is in the final year of a reasonable contract that would pay him $1.2 million this season.A lot of us here have mentioned the possibility of moving Vaughn to open up a roster spot. While I like Vaughn as a leader and as a third point guard, I question whether Pop has confidence in him anymore. He didn't think about playing him in the playoffs, which is a bad sign when you play for Pop and usually an indication that your time is over.

A trade that might make sense is Vaughn to the Orlando Magic. The Magic could use a point guard after Mike Wilks was lost for the season with a knee injury. Vaughn for Marcin Gortat could make sense. The Spurs would waive Gortat, which would save ~500K from just waiving Vaughn. The Magic are right up against the lux tax threshold, but this trade would keep them just below it.

I think odds are that Pop will keep Vaughn but I'm not sure. On top of Vaughn's playoff status, in a recent interview, Pop was asked what he wants from a backup point guard. Pop said scoring. That's the opposite of what Vaughn brings and it's exactly what Stoudamire brings.

[naico]

Get rid of Vaughn and sign Farmer and Hairston. If Pop wants to keep his Tolliver he can, but i'd give Salim a shot.

[tav1]

Interesting quotes from Pop. It's like he's talking himself into how he'd justify keeping Hill, Vaughn and Stoudamire.


A lot of us here have mentioned the possibility of moving Vaughn to open up a roster spot. While I like Vaughn as a leader and as a third point guard, I question whether Pop has confidence in him anymore. He didn't think about playing him in the playoffs, which is a bad sign when you play for Pop and usually an indication that your time is over.

A trade that might make sense is Vaughn to the Orlando Magic. The Magic could use a point guard after Mike Wilks was lost for the season with a knee injury. Vaughn for Marcin Gortat could make sense. The Spurs would waive Gortat, which would save ~500K from just waiving Vaughn. The Magic are right up against the lux tax threshold, but this trade would keep them just below it.

I think odds are that Pop will keep Vaughn but I'm not sure. On top of Vaughn's playoff status, in a recent interview, Pop was asked what he wants from a backup point guard. Pop said scoring. That's the opposite of what Vaughn brings and it's exactly what Stoudamire brings.

Some of us suggested a trade to Orlando in a thread yesterday, citing the Wilks injury as well.

The Gortat option is a good thought. Orlando does have an exception that they could use. It would put them in luxury tax territory by a couple hundred thousand, though. Gortat, by the way, has played pretty well this preseason and Battie has shaky legs.

Reading between the lines, I don't think the Spurs are willing to eat Vaughn's contract. If they can't move him, they won't waive him. If they can move him, they'll keep Stoudamire.

[SenorSpur]

Some of us suggested a trade to Orlando in a thread yesterday, citing the Wilks injury as well.

The Gortat option is a good thought. Orlando does have an exception that they could use. It would put them in luxury tax territory by a couple hundred thousand, though. Gortat, by the way, has played pretty well this preseason and Battie has shaky legs.

Reading between the lines, I don't think the Spurs are willing to eat Vaughn's contract. If they can't move him, they won't waive him. If they can move him, they'll keep Stoudamire.

As much as Pop values vets, and he said as much in the article, it's extremely unlikely that he'll move Vaughn. JV is probably worth more to the Spurs as a mentor for Hill, than he is as a 3rd PG.

[ElNono]

IMO, Vaughn is not going anywhere, at least until February. Same thing with Bonner.
To be honest, I would rather have Farmer make the team than Salim.

[Ice009]

Why keep a contract if it won't help you? The Spurs ate Ron mercer's contract in 2004. Vaughn's contract would be less that what the ate of Ron's.

Vaughn probably won't be used in the playoffs again this season.

I also mentioned trading Vaughn to Orlando the other day. That could be a good option too.

Pop should be looking at players he thinks might help us in the playoffs. Stoudamire could be one of those players. Farmer could be one of those players. Tolliver could be one of those players. Stop taking up roster spots for players that aren't going to help us.

btw with Tolliver I'm starting to think that both he and Bonner could really push each other like they've been doing in these last two preseason games. So maybe having both wouldn't be such a bad thing?

[ElNono]

Why keep a contract if it won't help you? The Spurs ate Ron mercer's contract in 2004. Vaughn's is a lot smaller.

Vaughn probably won't be used in the playoffs again this season. Vaughn couldn't really help us last season in the playoffs at all. What is he going to do for us this time?

As stated in the article, he can be a good mentor for Hill. He's a guy that understands the system well, and his work ethic is indisputable.


Pop should be looking at players he think might help us in the playoffs. Stoudamire could be one of those players.

You can look to see what's available in February, when some teams probably are starting to tank because their season is not going their way. I don't think we need to rush and act right now.

[Ice009]

As stated in the article, he can be a good mentor for Hill. He's a guy that understands the system well, and his work ethic is indisputable.



You can look to see what's available in February, when some teams probably are starting to tank because their season is not going their way. I don't think we need to rush and act right now.

We've got enough guys that know the system and can be mentors.

We could wait until the trade deadline. What if we do and get nothing?

[SenorSpur]

I still like Watkins on this roster, moreso than Stoudamire.

[polandprzem]

By all the ways

Gortat is the only polish guy in the NBA if someone don't know.

[ElNono]

We've got enough guys that know the system and can be mentors.

You know Pop, he likes veterans to carry such duties. Like Finley... or Vaughn.



We could wait until the trade deadline. What if we do and get nothing?

We roll with what we have. Other than Barry and Horry, we haven't lost any other player that makes the rotation in the playoffs anyways. Mason is there to cover for Barry, and KT should be more comfortable now after a year here.
We're going to go as far as the big 3 takes us anyways. If you think we're going to make a splash and make a Gasol type of deal you have to be kidding yourself.

[MoSpur]

Salim isn't that much better than Vaughn except that he shoots the ball better. I don't think Pop would trade Vaughn unless he knows he's going to get something the team really needs in return.

[tav1]

Salim isn't that much better than Vaughn except that he shoots the ball better. I don't think Pop would trade Vaughn unless he knows he's going to get something the team really needs in return.

Yes, but shooting is a need and priority for Pop. See TimVP's post from above.

[Tlegacy7]

We need scoring for when the Spurs go on their droughts. I know Pop loves his vets but we need some new blood in there. I respect what Vaughn has done for us(just like I respect any player who dons a Spurs uniform) but I think its time he moved on. Without Manu who is our offensive spark plug off the bench?

[Bruno]

If you keep Stoudamire, Spurs will have a logjam on the perimeter when Manu will be back in one month.
It will be nearly impossible for Pop to give playing time to Stoudamire and Hill and Mason. One of these three players will end up in the doghouse. Hill deserves to get consistent playing time with Spurs to improve his game and Mason is paid nearly $4M. Stoudamire is likely the one that will end up in the doghouse.

If Spurs keep Stoudamire, they will have a half useful player for one month and then have a player who won't be able to get playing with Spurs and can't be send to Austin. Great...

I rather see Spurs try to use this roster spot on a young player who will be send to Austin to work on his game. This young player could be Hairston or a waived player from another team (like ***** *****! a couple of years ago).

[SenorSpur]

If you keep Stoudamire, Spurs will have a logjam on the perimeter when Manu will be back in one month.

Exactly. I think the backcourt is stocked enough. I simply don't see the net benefit of having Stoudamire in, what will be, a very, crowded backcourt. There just wont be enough minutes to go around. If they can't get scoring out of Mason and Hill, then they're in big trouble.


I rather see Spurs try to use this roster spot on a young player who will be send to Austin to work on his game. This young player could be Hairston or a waived player from another team (like ***** *****! a couple of years ago).

I believe the frontline development has been largely ignored - especially with Ian's unfortunate injury. Outside of Duncan, this team is lacking a paint presence. To your point, I'd rather see them use a roster spot on a developmental player like Watkins or Hairston. Though he has only limited NBA experience with Sac-town, Watkins CAN provide post defense, rebounding and shotblocking in spot duty this season. Hairston, with some Austin seasoning, could begin to pay dividends as early as next year. IMO, these are the two most important developmental players they should have in the pipeline.

[tav1]

If you keep Stoudamire, Spurs will have a logjam on the perimeter when Manu will be back in one month.
It will be nearly impossible for Pop to give playing time to Stoudamire and Hill and Mason. One of these three players will end up in the doghouse. Hill deserves to get consistent playing time with Spurs to improve his game and Mason is paid nearly $4M. Stoudamire is likely the one that will end up in the doghouse.

If Spurs keep Stoudamire, they will have a half useful player for one month and then have a player who won't be able to get playing with Spurs and can't be send to Austin. Great...

I rather see Spurs try to use this roster spot on a young player who will be send to Austin to work on his game. This young player could be Hairston or a waived player from another team (like ***** *****! a couple of years ago).

Bruno, good stuff as always.

That player would either be Malik Hairston or a waiver claim. I'm a strong proponent of roster spots 14 and 15 always being reserved for Austin assignments. Convert the suits into jerseys. But it doesn't look to be in the cards this season.

I'm not confident San Antonio will go in this direction, however. My working theory is that Pop wants to play faster this season, using Tony Parker off ball more often. He tried this last season, but D. Stoudamire and Vaughn tainted the results.

I also think that San Antonio will be amongst league leaders in 3 point attempts, especially when adjusted for pace. Having said this, my bet would be that Pop wants to keep Farmer, Stoudamire and Tolliver after moving Vaughn. Buford and Demps are arguing for Hairston. Purely conjecture, but that's where I think it's at.

Farmer and Stoudamire as deep bench options give the Spurs a good mix of players and would go far in alleviating offensive struggles. Defensively, they're tolerable for the short minutes they'd play.

Whatever happens, the Spurs roster will be improved over last season and will set up nicely for 2009-10. After such a disappointing off season, camp has been something of an encouragement.

[tav1]

Exactly. I think the backcourt is stocked enough. I simply don't see the net benefit of having Stoudamire in, what will be, a very, crowded backcourt. There just wont be enough minutes to go around. If they can't get scoring out of Mason and Hill, then they're in big trouble.



I believe the frontline development has been largely ignored - especially with Ian's unfortunate injury. Outside of Duncan, this team is lacking a paint presence. To your point, I'd rather see them use a roster spot on a developmental player like Watkins or Hairston. Though he has only limited NBA experience with Sac-town, Watkins CAN provide post defense, rebounding and shotblocking in spot duty this season. Hairston, with some Austin seasoning, could begin to pay dividends as early as next year. IMO, these are the two most important developmental players they should have in the pipeline.

Wing and front line development are both areas of concern, everyone agrees. I'm not sold on Watkins as a pipeline player, however. The Spurs will have an opportunity at Javtokas and Gist next summer, and a remote chance at Splitter in 2010. So the pipeline is not completely dry. And Mahinmi and Tolliver have yet to completely flush out. So we'll have to wait and see. But ideally, the Spurs would be grooming one rotation big man in Austin.

Rather than Watkins, I'd like to see the Toros draft prospect bigs with their first two picks and hope for the best. Steven Hill and Richard Hendrix would be nice. But for this season, 15 is not a workable number for an assignee. How I wish the NBDL rules were set up a bit differently.

[SenorSpur]

Wing and front line development are both areas of concern, everyone agrees. I'm not sold on Watkins as a pipeline player, however. The Spurs will have an opportunity at Javtokas and Gist next summer, and a remote chance at Splitter in 2010. So the pipeline is not completely dry. And Mahinmi and Tolliver have yet to completely flush out. So we'll have to wait and see. But ideally, the Spurs would be grooming one rotation big man in Austin.


Gist will be a good bet and a good get for next year. I fully expect to see him on the roster next year.

If Javtokas had intentions of being a Spur, he would've been by now. My guess is he's making far too much money in Europe to come over here and take a pay cut. Same with Splitter. None of these guys can be counted on a certain future acquisitions. They've already been burned once by depending solely on the Euro market players. The economic situation has made this strategy an unwise one. It would be foolish to go there again.

It's more prudent for the Spurs to subscribe to the ol' "bird-in-the-hand" theory. Watkins has already demonstrated some raw defensive skills that are unique to this roster and the Spurs have him now. I'd prefer they took a chance on developing him. If someone better comes along later - great. However, having him on hand right now, trumps two frontline guys who may never see the inside of a Spurs uniform.

[tav1]

Gist will be a good bet and a good get for next year. I fully expect to see him on the roster next year.

If Javtokas had intentions of being a Spur, he would've been by now. My guess is he's making far too much money in Europe to come over here and take a pay cut. Same with Splitter. None of these guys can be counted on a certain future acquisitions. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Personally, I'd rather subscribe to the ol' "bird-in-the-hand" theory. Watkins has demonstrated some raw defensive skills that are unique to this roster and the Spurs have him now. I'd prefer they took a chance on developing him. If someone better comes along later - great. However, having him on hand right now, trumps two frontline guys who may never see the inside of a Spurs uniform.

Double-check me, but Javtokas' Russian contract expires next summer and he isn't highly paid. Next summer is his last chance at the NBA.

And as bad as Tolliver has looked, he looks better than Watkins to my eyes. He plays with more energy, gets on the boards, etc... Tolliver can play in Austin and is better bet as a 6th big. I know you disagree. But forget us for a moment. It's clear that the Spurs think more highly of Tolliver than Watkins. The 6th big slot is settled, if it's a question of Tolliver or Watkins. I don't like the Bolliver redundancy, but it's better than the Watkins cantplayancy.

[SenorSpur]

Double-check me, but Javtokas' Russian contract expires next summer and he isn't highly paid. Next summer is his last chance at the NBA.

And as bad as Tolliver has looked, he looks better than Watkins to my eyes. He plays with more energy, gets on the boards, etc... Tolliver can play in Austin and is better bet as a 6th big. I know you disagree. But forget us for a moment. It's clear that the Spurs think more highly of Tolliver than Watkins. The 6th big slot is settled, if it's a question of Tolliver or Watkins. I don't like the Bolliver redundancy, but it's better than the Watkins cantplayancy.

Absolutely agree. Tolliver WILL make this roster. Pop has almost admitted as much. However, I don't get caught up comparing Tolliver and Watkins. Tolliver is a perimeter big and Watkins a post big. They bring a different set of skills to the mix. Anyways, I know Tolliver will get the edge and I'm OK with him making the roster. I just wish it was at the expense of Bonner. :lol

I realize I'm wishful thinking on Watkins, but when thinking about the "suddenly" bigger frontlines of the Western Conference, Watkins gives the Spurs another player to help protect the rim and patrol the paint. I keep harping on this because I don't feel as though Tim has enough frontline help in KT, Fab and an unproven Ian.

[tav1]

Absolutely agree. Tolliver WILL make this roster. Pop has almost admitted as much. However, I don't get caught up comparing Tolliver and Watkins. Tolliver is a perimeter big and Watkins a post big. They bring a different set of skills to the mix. Anyways, I know Tolliver will get the edge and I'm OK with him making the roster. I just wish it was at the expense of Bonner. :lol

I realize I'm wishful thinking on Watkins, but when thinking about the "suddenly" bigger frontlines of the Western Conference, Watkins gives the Spurs another player to help protect the rim and patrol the paint. I keep harping on this because I don't feel as though Tim has enough frontline help in KT, Fab and an unproven Ian.

Okay. Fair enough. So you're in favor of the Spurs keeping 7 bigs? Or do you just want to be on record if the Spurs struggle against LA and Portland?

If the latter, I would just submit that playing fast and small is a more likely solution to other bigs than Watkins; and Gist and Javtokas are likely to help in that area just as soon as Watkins, even if he is on the official roster this season. He would play as many meaningful minutes as the other two.

Watkins could be available for the Toros as a Toro. That's as much as we can hope for from him. In that regard, I'm cheering for him.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't see how Watkins could help because he would never make it off the IR for the Spurs. He'd be nice for the Toros, but there is no way he cracks the Spurs' rotation this season unless three big men get injured. It's highly doubtful he would crack any NBA rotation at this point.

[SenorSpur]

I don't think he'll crack the rotation either. I'm looking at him as a developmental player and as insurance against the bigger frontlines. I just like having him in the pipeline for down the road. We're all going to see how undermanned the Spurs frontline is when we're watching Duncan trying to fend off two 7-fters as he did on ocassion last year - with little help from KT or Fab. We still don't know about Ian.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd rather the Spurs keep Salim and trade Vaughn.

[T Park]

I'd rather the Spurs keep Salim and trade Vaughn.


(knock knock)

Nah, someone else is posting for Ed there....

[timvp]

Good discussion in this thread :tu

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.













*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

[SenorSpur]

Good discussion in this thread :tu

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.









*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

Wasn't Farmer the D-League scoring leader last year? If so, does he have another year of eligibility there or is his tenure up?

[Obstructed_View]

By all the ways

Gortat is the only polish guy in the NBA if someone don't know.


http://rapidcityjournal.com/blogs/sports/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/pike.jpg

Exsqueeze me?

[timvp]

Wasn't Farmer the D-League scoring leader last year? If so, does he have another year of eligibility there or is his tenure up?If the Spurs kept him, they could send him to D-League. But he has only one more year of eligibility.

[SenorSpur]

If the Spurs kept him, they could send him to D-League. But he has only one more year of eligibility.

Only problem is it would cost them a roster spot. I still believe that Hairston is the best overall option - for all the reasons that you mentioned and because he's the better defender.

[tav1]

Good discussion in this thread :tu

Something further to consider when figuring who will make the team is each player's salary. I'm subtracting out the amount that was already guaranteed (thanks to Bruno for the info) since the Spurs will have to pay that either way. The following is how much more money they'd have to guarantee each player:

Tolliver - $242,114*
Hairston - $442,114
Stoudamire - $597,581
Watkins - $691,517
Green - $691,517
Farmer - $711,517

There are a lot of factors working for Hairston. He's cheap. He's young. He can do two years in Austin. So even if he isn't blowing the Spurs away, all things being close to equal, Hairston has a bit of an advantage.

Farmer being the most expensive to keep may hurt him -- even though we aren't talking about huge sums of money.













*I may be wrong about Tolliver's number. He made the Cavs last year for one day but didn't play. If that bumps him to the next pay grade due to not technically being a rookie, the correct number would be $511,517.

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...

The difference is that Gist never signed a contract with the Spurs.

[Manufan909]

If Gist never signed anything Senorspur, how are you so sure he'll come back? Plus, do any of the bigs contract's expire after this season, cuz the Spurs need to make space so Ian, Tolliver, and Gist can get serious minutes. If I had to choose between Fab and KT, I'd go with Kurt.

[timvp]

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...They lose all NBA rights to Hairston if they cut him. They keep D-League rights to him but even with that, they don't have any protection from another team signing him at any point.

[tp2021]

If the Spurs cut Hairston, do they lose his rights altogether? In my mind, I've been lumping him together with Gist in the sense that the Spurs could find a place for him in Europe and retain his rights...

The difference is that Gist never signed a contract with the Spurs.

The Spurs actually drafted Gist, so they have his NBA rights.

[Manufan909]

I'll admit Tolliver would be an ok pick, if we had 3 or 4 roster spots. Someone needs to "convince" Vaughn and Bonner to resign.
:stirpot:

Not really, but I can dream.:hat

[Ice009]

You know Pop, he likes veterans to carry such duties. Like Finley... or Vaughn.



We roll with what we have. Other than Barry and Horry, we haven't lost any other player that makes the rotation in the playoffs anyways. Mason is there to cover for Barry, and KT should be more comfortable now after a year here.
We're going to go as far as the big 3 takes us anyways. If you think we're going to make a splash and make a Gasol type of deal you have to be kidding yourself.

Where did I say we're going to make a Gasol like trade? I said we're probably not going to make a good trade at the trade deadline so you may as well dump Vaughn now.

[Ice009]

I believe the frontline development has been largely ignored - especially with Ian's unfortunate injury. Outside of Duncan, this team is lacking a paint presence. To your point, I'd rather see them use a roster spot on a developmental player like Watkins or Hairston. Though he has only limited NBA experience with Sac-town, Watkins CAN provide post defense, rebounding and shotblocking in spot duty this season. Hairston, with some Austin seasoning, could begin to pay dividends as early as next year. IMO, these are the two most important developmental players they should have in the pipeline.

I'm going to bring up something about where you mentioned spot duty. I think Watkins could be great is spot duty. Whereas Bonner totally sucks in that role.

Bonner has shown us when he gets the minutes he can play well offensively, but he makes too many defensive mistakes, can't really guard any of the starting PF's in the league and not to mention other boneheaded plays in general. Basically Bonner sucks in spot duty. He needs court time to actually play good, but with all his other deficiencies I don't see Pop giving him that court time.

Really what the Spurs need is some players that can come in a produce in spot duty. Farmer, Stoudamire, Tolliver, Watkins could be those type of players that can make an impact within small amounts of court time. Bonner seems to be pretty bad in that role.

[SenorSpur]

If Gist never signed anything Senorspur, how are you so sure he'll come back? Plus, do any of the bigs contract's expire after this season, cuz the Spurs need to make space so Ian, Tolliver, and Gist can get serious minutes. If I had to choose between Fab and KT, I'd go with Kurt.

While it's impossible to be 100% certain, the fact is the Spurs still retain his draft rights. All indications seem to point to him wanting to play in the NBA. If that's the case and unless some Euro team throws crazy $$$ at him, I expect him to be with the Spurs next year. We all know he's got a lot of promise. I just hope we're able to see him blossom in a Spurs uniform.

[Ice009]

Also, if Pop is looking at Stoudamire and is basing it off of him having more NBA experience than the other guys the you only need to look at the Scola situation last season.

Scola had no NBA experience and the Spurs didn't think he'd fit and/or his game translate to the NBA. They were wrong about that. Scola showed in only one season that he's clearly a better player than Bonner. Don't make the same mistake with these new guys just because they don't have that NBA experience. Don't penalize them for it.

[SenorSpur]

I'm going to bring up something about where you mentioned spot duty. I think Watkins could be great is spot duty. Whereas Bonner totally sucks in that role.

Bonner has shown us when he gets the minutes he can play well offensively, but he makes too many defensive mistakes, can't really guard any of the starting PF's in the league and not to mention other boneheaded plays in general. Basically Bonner sucks in spot duty. He needs court time to actually play good, but with all his other deficiencies I don't see Pop giving him that court time.

Really what the Spurs need is some players that can come in a produce in spot duty. Farmer, Stoudamire, Tolliver, Watkins could be those type of players that can make an impact within small amounts of court time. Bonner seems to be pretty bad in that role.

I hear ya. Bonner does seem to produce diminishing returns in spot duty. However, with Tolliver waiting in the wings, and because Bonner is so wildy inconsistent, I can see Pop having a short leash with him. I would expect Pop to likely utlize both players interchangeably, as he did with the Horry/Bonner tandem, with one backing up the other.

Someone mentioned this earlier, but I can see Tolliver pushing Bonner to a point where he may eventually beat him out of the rotation. Really, I would be fine if Tolliver was the only perimeter-shooting big man on the roster.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Common sense must prevail here. The Spurs need scoring. Sign Salim and Farmer. It's exactly what the team needs. Use the sensible Orlando trade as Timvp metioned previously. Salim will strecth the floor and Farmer is another weapon in the wings. Salim has so much potential and it will be a massive mistake not to sign him. J.Vaughn pack your bags, Orlando is your new home.

[Ice009]

I would actually feel bad for Vaughn if he were to be cut or traded though. I can't imagine what the new guys would think if that were to happen. It'd probably make them realize that you have to bust your ass to make it in this league and keep them on their toes after making the team.

[SenorSpur]

Common sense must prevail here. The Spurs need scoring. Sign Salim and Farmer. It's exactly what the team needs. Use the sensible Orlando trade as Timvp metioned previously. Salim will strecth the floor and Farmer is another weapon in the wings. Salim has so much potential and it will be a massive mistake not to sign him. J.Vaughn pack your bags, Orlando is your new home.

Are you forgetting Ginobili will be coming back in Dec? There's no way to divvy up playing time for such a crowded backcourt. Scoring is definitelly a necessity, but that's why the signed Mason. If the Spurs can't get enough scoring from TP, Hill, Mason and Finley, then they're screwed anyway.

I wouldn't have an issue if JV was traded, but don't expect it. If you believe that he will, you're grossly underestimating Pop. It is an interesting dilemma. Pop wants and needs scoring, but he's hell-bent on keeping JV on the roster.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Are you forgetting Ginobili will be coming back in Dec? There's no way to divvy up playing time for such a crowded backcourt. Scoring is definitelly a necessity, but that's why the signed Mason. If the Spurs can't get enough scoring from TP, Hill, Mason and Finley, then they're screwed anyway.

I wouldn't have an issue if JV was traded, but don't expect it. If you believe that he will, you're grossly underestimating Pop. It is an interesting dilemma. Pop wants and needs scoring, but he's hell-bent on keeping JV on the roster.

The Spurs need a decent back up PG, we haven't had a back up PG in years. Salim is that solution. It's common sense, would you rather have the combo of Parker,Hill and Salim or Parker, Hill and JV?

I doubt Pop gets rid of JV but if it were to happen it would be great and such a relief. I havent forgot about Manu, but having more weapons on the offensive end isn't going to hurt especially when your a team that goes through offensive droughts. Pop would just have to give the playing time to those who perform.

[ElNono]

Where did I say we're going to make a Gasol like trade? I said we're probably not going to make a good trade at the trade deadline so you may as well dump Vaughn now.

We're not dumping Vaughn, at least not until February. Might as well get that off your system now.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs need a decent back up PG, we haven't had a back up PG in years. Salim is that solution. It's common sense, would you rather have the combo of Parker,Hill and Salim or Parker, Hill and JV?

I doubt Pop gets rid of JV but if it were to happen it would be great and such a relief. I havent forgot about Manu, but having more weapons on the offensive end isn't going to hurt especially when your a team that goes through offensive droughts. Pop would just have to give the playing time to those who perform.

First problem with Stoudamire is he's NOT a PG. He's a streaky shooter in a PG's body. While he may be instant offense, he's also a terrible defender.

That said, I'd still take him over Vaughn too. However, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Pop is not going to jettison JV from the roster.