Welcome to the Obamagestapo....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://townhall.com/blog/g/fcebc660-26b4-467b-9ab1-cfb2ae50333c?comments=true&commentsSortDirection=Descending


Obama Wants DOJ to Silence McCain-Palin on ACORN
Posted by: Amanda Carpenter at 4:30 PM
Remember when Barack Obama used his campaign lawyers to petition the Department of Justice to shut down the American Issues Project when it created an ad about William Ayers?

Obama's complaint didn't go anywhere, but he's at it again. This time Obama's trying to use his influence as a presidential candidate and U.S. Senator to convince the DOJ to shut down those who are criticizing ACORN.

Obama for America General Counsel Bob Bauer wrote a letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasy last Friday asking Mukasy to launch an investigation against John McCain, Sarah Palin and their campaign surrogates.

Why? Because Obama is upset the GOP is drawing attention to ACORN's fraudulent voter registration activities. Bauer said members of the GOP are "fomenting specious vote fraud allegations, and there are distorting indications of official involvement or collusion."

Bauer's 7-page letter specifically accuses McCain, Palin and Republican Sens. George Voinovich, John Cornyn and Reps. Michele Bachmann, Roy Blunt and Paul Ryan of engaging in “politically-motivated efforts to influence the Department's investigative and prosecutorial efforts.”

The Heritage Foundation's Conn Carroll says this gives a "good preview of what an Obama Department of Justice would look like." Scary.

Update: Obama's lawyer might have to expand his list of Republicans to target. A few more just jumped on the anti-ACORN train.

All nine Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee, including Ranking Member Arlen Specter, demanded Democratic Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy investigate ACORN “widespread, systematic voter registration fraud” in a letter to the Chairman today.

I'm sure the libs will dismiss this. Just wait. If Obama wins, this will standard operating procedure for anyone opposing the Chosen One. Hitler would be proud.

[Bartleby]

God forbid we should ever see people in the WH trying to influence the operations of the DOJ.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

God forbid we should ever see people in the WH trying to influence the operations of the DOJ.

Bush's stupidity shouldn't be an excuse for Obama's thought police.

[Tully365]

The Gestapo and Hitler are dramatic analogies, but I like the ones linking Obama directly to Satan better. Check this out:

Barack= 6 letters
Hussein= 7 letters
Obama= 5 letters

675.

If you just move one letter from his middle name to his last name, making him Nobama (the cute name invented by some who don't like him), then you've got:

Barack Hussei Nobama!!!

You see?? 666!!!

Holy shit-- undeniable truth! He's the anti-christ!


I'm still voting for him.

[ElNono]

http://townhall.com/blog/g/fcebc660-26b4-467b-9ab1-cfb2ae50333c?comments=true&commentsSortDirection=Descending

I'm sure the libs will dismiss this. Just wait. If Obama wins, this will standard operating procedure for anyone opposing the Chosen One. Hitler would be proud.

So how many fraudulent votes Acorn produce?
I mean, otherwise the claim is valid.

[Shastafarian]

And wasn't the leak that the FBI is investigating ACORN illegal?

[Wild Cobra]

So how many fraudulent votes Acorn produce?
I mean, otherwise the claim is valid.
ACORN doesn't produce fraudulent votes. Only fraudulent registrations. That's where people get tripped up on both sides. What they do is create a situation, that taken one more step, allows corrupt people inside the election offices to cheat. This happened in King County, Washington, in the 2004 Governor's election. The circumstantial evidence was overwhelming, but there was no hard evidence. Once registrations of people are known bad, but look good enough, Elections Volunteers can manipulate the system in mass.

It can not be said this is happening in more places with accuracy. The problem is, that it can easily happen. Those of us who want this stopped just want to feel comfortable the elections are not being robbed. The liberals cry about disenfranchised voters, but never look into real holes in the system that do permit mass cheating.

[ElNono]

ACORN doesn't produce fraudulent votes. Only fraudulent registrations. That's where people get tripped up on both sides. What they do is create a situation, that taken one more step, allows corrupt people inside the election offices to cheat. This happened in King County, Washington, in the 2004 Governor's election. The circumstantial evidence was overwhelming, but there was no hard evidence. Once registrations of people are known bad, but look good enough, Elections Volunteers can manipulate the system in mass.

It can not be said this is happening in more places with accuracy. The problem is, that it can easily happen. Those of us who want this stopped just want to feel comfortable the elections are not being robbed. The liberals cry about disenfranchised voters, but never look into real holes in the system that do permit mass cheating.

Both sides cheat, and it's inexcusable. That said, I think there's enormous watchful eyes on both parties for this exact same reason. Besides the pandering and the accusations, we are yet to see a case with concrete evidence of mass fraud.

[Hook Dem]

Both sides cheat, and it's inexcusable. That said, I think there's enormous watchful eyes on both parties for this exact same reason. Besides the pandering and the accusations, we are yet to see a case with concrete evidence of mass fraud.

Thats because election day isn't here yet!

[Tully365]

Aggie hoopsfan and boutons should open up a bi-partisan school for ridiculous exaggerations.

[ChumpDumper]

ACORN doesn't produce fraudulent votes. Only fraudulent registrations. That's where people get tripped up on both sides. What they do is create a situation, that taken one more step, allows corrupt people inside the election offices to cheat. This happened in King County, Washington, in the 2004 Governor's election. The circumstantial evidence was overwhelming, but there was no hard evidence. Once registrations of people are known bad, but look good enough, Elections Volunteers can manipulate the system in mass.What was the overwhelming circumstantial evidence?


It can not be said this is happening in more places with accuracy.And yet folks claim Massive Vote Fraud every day here.

[Anti.Hero]

I can't wait until the far-left takes full control.

The rush to institutionalize voter fraud same day registration/voting. The unions getting free reign on bullying tactics....



It's going to be awesome.

[Mr. Peabody]

The Gestapo and Hitler are dramatic analogies, but I like the ones linking Obama directly to Satan better. Check this out:

Barack= 6 letters
Hussein= 7 letters
Obama= 5 letters

675.

If you just move one letter from his middle name to his last name, making him Nobama (the cute name invented by some who don't like him), then you've got:

Barack Hussei Nobama!!!

You see?? 666!!!

Holy shit-- undeniable truth! He's the anti-christ!


I'm still voting for him.

Plus, he was born in Hawaii. The show "Lost" is filmed in Hawaii. If you're not familiar with the show, it's a show about people stranded on an island that appears to have it's own laws of physics, exists outside of time, has magical properties, etc. One of the theories about the show is that the island the characters inhabit is actually Hell.

So, Obama may have been born in Hell.

[Anti.Hero]

Nah it's a time machine man!


I love that show. Ecko was based on Obama and will come back last episode to save the day. Book it.

[Mr. Peabody]

Nah it's a time machine man!


I love that show. Ecko was based on Obama and will come back last episode to save the day. Book it.

Yeah, but what was Mr. Ecko - a false priest. Hence, Obama is the anti-Christ.

Then again, many religious people insist that Jesus Christ is a hero to them and you, from all appearances (and be appearances, I mean your screen name), are the - Anti.Hero.

Hmmmmm.......:makemyday

[Anti.Hero]

Many modern antiheroes possess, or even encapsulate, the postmodern rejection of traditional values symptomatic of Modernist literature in general, as well as the disillusion felt after World War II and the Nuclear Age. It has been argued that the continuing popularity of the antihero in modern literature and popular culture may be based on the recognition that a person is fraught with human frailties, unlike the archetypes of the white-hatted cowboy and the noble warrior, and is therefore more accessible to readers and viewers. This popularity may also be symptomatic of the rejection by the avant-garde of traditional values after the counter-culture revolution of the 1960s.

In the postmodern era, traditionally defined heroic qualities, akin to the classic "knight in shining armor" type, have given way to the "gritty truth" of life, and authority in general is being questioned. The brooding vigilante or "noble criminal" archetype seen in characters like Batman is slowly becoming part of the popular conception of heroic valor rather than being characteristics that are deemed un-heroic.


:bking

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Aggie hoopsfan and boutons should open up a bi-partisan school for ridiculous exaggerations.

You should open one up for reading comprehension, you'd do well :tu

[ElNono]

You should open one up for reading comprehension, you'd do well :tu

What part did we not understand? That Obama's campaign asked the DOJ not to waste resources investigating unfounded accusations?

[boutons_]

McLiar and pitbull bitch are LYING about ACORN as a smokescreen for Repug voter suppression/intimidation/purging/disenfranchisement.

If HUSSEIN can stop them lying and stop the Repugs from cheating, what's not to like?

[Tully365]

You should open one up for reading comprehension, you'd do well :tu

Here's what I comprehended-- Your opinion is that Obama using his influence to stop an investigation is the same as Hilter exterminating 8 million+ Jews, Slavs, Poles, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, gypsies, Russians, political dissenters, disabled and mentally ill people in concentration camps, invading numerous countries, and preaching a philosophy of racial superiority.

That's ridiculous exaggeration by any reckoning, so I stand by my original statement.

You'd have to at least compare him to Nixon 100 times before you leap right to Hitler.

[Tully365]

Plus, he was born in Hawaii. The show "Lost" is filmed in Hawaii. If you're not familiar with the show, it's a show about people stranded on an island that appears to have it's own laws of physics, exists outside of time, has magical properties, etc. One of the theories about the show is that the island the characters inhabit is actually Hell.

So, Obama may have been born in Hell.

How can he be born in Hell when he constructed it with his own two hands??

[Ignignokt]

Here's what I comprehended-- Your opinion is that Obama using his influence to stop an investigation is the same as Hilter exterminating 8 million+ Jews, Slavs, Poles, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, gypsies, Russians, political dissenters, disabled and mentally ill people in concentration camps, invading numerous countries, and preaching a philosophy of racial superiority.

That's ridiculous exaggeration by any reckoning, so I stand by my original statement.

You'd have to at least compare him to Nixon 100 times before you leap right to Hitler.

i AGREE he should have instead used Stalin. Both sides would have been satisfied with that assesment.

[Tully365]

If you don't like Obama and his views, I have no problem understanding that stance. Perfectly understandable. But if you can really think that you can start drawing analogies between Obama and some of the darkest and most evil political leaders in history now, then I'd say you are using ridiculous hyperbole to demonize him, which is completely unreasonable.

I think G W Bush is a terrible president, but I wouldn't compare him to Hitler.

[Ignignokt]

If you don't like Obama and his views, I have no problem understanding that stance. Perfectly understandable. But if you can really think that you can start drawing analogies between Obama and some of the darkest and most evil political leaders in history now, then I'd say you are using ridiculous hyperbole to demonize him, which is completely unreasonable.

I think G W Bush is a terrible president, but I wouldn't compare him to Hitler.
so you support suppressing dissent?

[Tully365]

so you support suppressing dissent?

I'm not suppressing anything. AHF expressed his opinion, and I expressed mine. I don't want anyone to suppress AHF.

[Ignignokt]

I'm not suppressing anything. AHF expressed his opinion, and I expressed mine. I don't want anyone to suppress AHF.

We're talking Obama and his suppression of the message about his acorn ties.

Now you're just dodging questions.

I win, but we all lose in the end.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, This is a horrible move by Obama because well, its not like the Republicans have any history of fucking with the Justice Dept and trying to force voter fraud investigations that weren't merited so I'm sure they'd never try that again.

How is Alberto Gonzales doing these days?

[Tully365]

We're talking Obama and his suppression of the message about his acorn ties.

Now you're just dodging questions.

I win, but we all lose in the end.

I wasn't dodging-- I thought you were saying I was trying to suppress AHF.
But you've changed the debate. My original post said that this story does not equate to "gestapo" or "hitler" comparisons. Do you agree with that opinion?

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

We're talking Obama and his suppression of the message about his acorn ties.

Now you're just dodging questions.

I win, but we all lose in the end.

Okay I can't help it. Words have meaning. There is no suppression going on here. Having lawyers petition according to the rule of law and writing a letter requesting an investigation are not what Hitler would have done and they are certainly not the acts of an oppressive regime.

When someone does something you don't like, you follow the rules you have and you avail yourself of the means you have to seek redress. This is called civilized society. I have it on the authority of many School House Rock interludes that society (especially that of an American nature) is a good thing.

Now, if Obama starts suspending the Constitution and outsourcing torture, I'm with you. Until then you're upset because a presidential candidate is seeking legal recourse against suspect and possibly illegal behavior.

And while two wrongs will never make a right - it should be noted that the concerns generated by suspicious voter registrations (again, not confirmed votes - just registrations) pale in potential to:

A) The fact that most of the people who create the hardware and software for voting machines are Republican in their general make-up and have gotten exclusive contracts from this administration even though they have ignored evidence proving their security is lax;

B) The fact that many states have purged possibly thousands of legitimate voters from their lists (this is an overwhelmingly Republican tactic ever since Kathrine Harris and Jeb Bush proved its worth back in 1999/2000).

So, one one side you have fake registrations that we have no likely reason to believe will translate into false votes. On the other side, you have the possibility of hijacking voting machines and denying thousands of legitimate voters the right to cast their ballots.

I agree all voter fraud is unacceptable and must be investigated and dealt with (something I've been waiting to happen since 2000). But to suggest that ACORN is the worst problem we have in this regard is simply to be uninformed.

[ChumpDumper]

What ACORN ties?

[ElNono]

We're talking Obama and his suppression of the message about his acorn ties.

Now you're just dodging questions.

I win, but we all lose in the end.

What suppression of his ties to Acorn? Did you read the article?

[fyatuk]

A) The fact that most of the people who create the hardware and software for voting machines are Republican in their general make-up and have gotten exclusive contracts from this administration even though they have ignored evidence proving their security is lax;

If the federal administration is giving out exclusive contracts for voter machines, there's a bigger problem than that they were created by Republicans and have security issues.

There's not such thing as federal voting. Everything is on the state level and the voting method is almost universally determined by county.

While Bush has certainly pushed towards getting electronic voting machines implemented over paper ballots (he's a technophile and would do that even if the manufacturers weren't regular republican contributors), he has not handed out any contracts for them.

[ElNono]

If the federal administration is giving out exclusive contracts for voter machines, there's a bigger problem than that they were created by Republicans and have security issues.

There's not such thing as federal voting. Everything is on the state level and the voting method is almost universally determined by county.

While Bush has certainly pushed towards getting electronic voting machines implemented over paper ballots (he's a technophile and would do that even if the manufacturers weren't regular republican contributors), he has not handed out any contracts for them.

The US Election Assistance Commission has assumed federal responsibility for accrediting voting system test laboratories and certifying voting equipment through the Voting System Certification & Laboratory Accreditation Program.[1] The purpose of the program is to independently verify that voting systems comply with the functional capabilities, accessibility, and security requirements necessary to ensure the integrity and reliability of voting system operation, as established in the Voluntary Voting System Guidelines (VVSG). With this program the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) will recommend labs for accreditation through its National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program (NVLAP).

[fyatuk]

The US Election Assistance Commission has assumed federal responsibility for accrediting voting system test laboratories and certifying voting equipment through the Voting System Certification & Laboratory Accreditation Program.[1] The purpose of the program is to independently verify that voting systems comply with the functional capabilities, accessibility, and security requirements necessary to ensure the integrity and reliability of voting system operation, as established in the Voluntary Voting System Guidelines (VVSG). With this program the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) will recommend labs for accreditation through its National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program (NVLAP).

That's an acceditation program. It's meant to simplify things by guaranteeing they are accurate to the states (obviously there's issues with that, however). It has nothing to do with the manufacturing or programming of said machines other than intending to verify their usability and reliability.

The claim was that voting machine manufacturers had gotten exclusive contracts from the federal goverment.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

If the federal administration is giving out exclusive contracts for voter machines, there's a bigger problem than that they were created by Republicans and have security issues.

There's not such thing as federal voting. Everything is on the state level and the voting method is almost universally determined by county.

While Bush has certainly pushed towards getting electronic voting machines implemented over paper ballots (he's a technophile and would do that even if the manufacturers weren't regular republican contributors), he has not handed out any contracts for them.

You're right, of course. I totally skipped a step. I should have said state officials with close ties to the current administration. There's no proof Bush/Rove directly interfered in such.


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/company-connect.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0406-27.htm

[fyatuk]

You're right, of course. I totally skipped a step. I should have said state officials with close ties to the current administration. There's no proof Bush/Rove directly interfered in such.


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/company-connect.html

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0406-27.htm

That makes sense then.

I still can't say there's anything wrong, other than the above mentioned accreditation system needs to be stricter (and require human readable paper receipt that can be voter verified and used for hand recounts), with it, IMO. There's pretty much no voting machine on the market not made by Republicans, and after the "hanging chad" fiasco, the country was certainly going to be moving towards electronic voting machines.

[ElNono]

That's an acceditation program. It's meant to simplify things by guaranteeing they are accurate to the states (obviously there's issues with that, however). It has nothing to do with the manufacturing or programming of said machines other than intending to verify their usability and reliability.

The claim was that voting machine manufacturers had gotten exclusive contracts from the federal goverment.

Making sure that program works properly goes a long ways toward dispelling the notion of voting machine hacking.
I'm going to tell you I don't know much about the program, but I'm also going to tell you that voting system companies fight tooth and nail to prevent independent reviews of their systems, and when they did happen, by court order, the findings have been suppressed from being published.
That some of these companies believe that their claims of 'trade secrets' are more important than ensuring the transparency of an election is nothing but mind-boggling. Not only that, but what kind of 'trade secrets' you could possibly have on a system running Linux with a GUI app to pick your votes? Also, if you truly innovated, you probably filed for a patent, which automatically discloses your invention anyways.
When these companies stop the bickering and the suing to hide information is when we're going to start trusting these devices.

(And FWIW, I'm not making this a partisan dispute. This needs to be addressed regardless of what party you support)

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

I still can't say there's anything wrong, other than the above mentioned accreditation system needs to be stricter (and require human readable paper receipt that can be voter verified and used for hand recounts), with it, IMO.

Aye, but I wasn't intending to provide proof of wrong-doing; I was merely explaining that the potential of voter fraud, given the examples, was clearly worse for one side than the other.

Point-of-polling voter fraud is a much harder feat than hacking or purging voter rolls.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

...I'm also going to tell you that voting system companies fight tooth and nail to prevent independent reviews of their systems, and when they did happen, by court order, the findings have been suppressed from being published.

The first part is true, but the second is not. There have been several high-profile documentaries about the findings and they were reported nationally. The sad truth is that this just doesn't seem to be a big issue for the general public.


(And FWIW, I'm not making this a partisan dispute. This needs to be addressed regardless of what party you support)

I completely agree, and I don't really understand why it hasn't been a bigger part of the debate in previous years. obviously with the war and economy I understand why it's regulated to smear-tactics just now, but that's unfortunate, imho.

[spurster]

Welcome to the Obamagestapo....?

So does the AntiChrist go after the Jews first?

[ElNono]

The first part is true, but the second is not. There have been several high-profile documentaries about the findings and they were reported nationally. The sad truth is that this just doesn't seem to be a big issue for the general public.


I stand corrected. I actually see that the report in NJ about the Sequoia machines might have been released already (It was originally suppressed). I'm actually gonna go read it now. Thanks!

[RandomGuy]

This shit didn't work the first 3 times you tried the same bit.

Make up your fucking mind. Are liberals fascists or communists?

Pick one and stick to it.

[fyatuk]

Aye, but I wasn't intending to provide proof of wrong-doing; I was merely explaining that the potential of voter fraud, given the examples, was clearly worse for one side than the other.

Point-of-polling voter fraud is a much harder feat than hacking or purging voter rolls.

Well, that depends on how strictly people follow the safeguards in place.

The way it seems to go, is Republicans seem to favor things like voter suppression and disappearing votes, while Democrats seem to favor more towards non-existant voters casting votes.

Certainly the unreliability of the voting machines is worse than ACORN innundating the system with misdone and fraudulent voter registration cards, but since many polling places (none of my friends, or I, have ever been to one that checked IDs if you had your reg card) don't follow the rules to guarantee the person voting is the registered voter, a fraudulent voter card can be a big problem.

[RandomGuy]

Well, that depends on how strictly people follow the safeguards in place.

Given that the Justice Department has been launching seperate investigations into this kind of thing for YEARS, and that those investigations were AT LEAST occasionally politically motivated, the fact that they haven't found any cases of widespread fraud of any sort, even on the local county level (feel free to prove me wrong on this), I would say that the safegaurds seem to be enforced fairly well.

[fyatuk]

Given that the Justice Department has been launching seperate investigations into this kind of thing for YEARS, and that those investigations were AT LEAST occasionally politically motivated, the fact that they haven't found any cases of widespread fraud of any sort, even on the local county level (feel free to prove me wrong on this), I would say that the safegaurds seem to be enforced fairly well.

Not really going to argue that. The checks on new registrations have become a lot better done over the last few decades. Just saying the key is getting the registration cards through the checks, since there pretty much aren't any checks to make sure the person matches the card, at least not in practice.

I've always wanted state ID cards (not drivers licenses, just ID cards) free, but required to vote. It concerns me that most of the resistance to such an idea comes from groups that advocate for illegal immigrants and other groups that wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

I haven't heard of any cases of widespread fraud on voting machines either. There have been cases of the machines malfunctioning (which is a HUGE concern and why I advocated human readable paper receipts earlier), but as far as I know, no serious allegations of electronic voting fraud (as in taken seriously in court).

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

Certainly the unreliability of the voting machines is worse than ACORN innundating the system with misdone and fraudulent voter registration cards, but since many polling places (none of my friends, or I, have ever been to one that checked IDs if you had your reg card) don't follow the rules to guarantee the person voting is the registered voter, a fraudulent voter card can be a big problem.

Where in the hell do you people vote? I live in God's waiting room here in nowhere, Florida and not only do I have to show my voter card and a photo ID, but I have to sign my name on the dotted line of a clipboard that has my name, address, and DL# pre-printed beside where my signature goes.

Of course that was last time. I vote by absentee ballot now. But still I had to verify my name and address so it could be mailed and I have to mail it in with my signature and affirmation under penalty of law.

And seriously, I still don't think there's any comparing potential. One hacker could, in theory, overturn the popular vote of an entire state. The same would take a conspiracy of several hundred, organized and going all day (and willing to get caught and face jail time at every stop - or if anyone leaked) and still they'd face voting lines to slow them down. Polling place fraud just isn't practical. Maybe it once was in the 1960s, but it just isn't now.

[fyatuk]

Where in the hell do you people vote? I live in God's waiting room here in nowhere, Florida and not only do I have to show my voter card and a photo ID, but I have to sign my name on the dotted line of a clipboard that has my name, address, and DL# pre-printed beside where my signature goes.


In a lot of places, measures to require photo IDs have been defeated. The reason usually given is that photo IDs have a cost, so requiring them could disenfranchise the poor, or because you then have to pay to vote that makes it an illegal poll tax. Personally, I wouldn't require photo IDs unless they were made free because frankly, I agree with the poll tax arguments (and I think IDs should be free anyway).

And yes, we have to sign the form that lists our name, address, etc. You can show your ID card to vote if you forgot your reg card (I've done that before), but I've never really been asked for it if I had my reg card. I have no idea how the law is set up here in Texas, but at least in my neck of the woods, I haven't seen it done in practice.

You have a point about it being easier to organize fraud on the e-voting machines. Easier to do depends on how the machines setup. Logically, they should be set up on wired, closed networks at each polling place and force the black-box to be taken to a central location to upload it's data to the main tabulation system, and I believe that's used in some locations.

Malfunctioning/miscalibrated equipment is a far bigger concern than hacking though, IMO.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

Malfunctioning/miscalibrated equipment is a far bigger concern than hacking though, IMO.

Agreed. I used hacking as a throw-away term to cover "messing with machines" or "getting machines wrong" just to illustrate that we're entering a frightening place where a handful of people could really tinker with it all. And while we don't have any proof that it's happened yet - I'm not at all sure we would find proof if it did and that possibility really gnaws at me.

Being worried about polling place fraud seems antiquated to me. But maybe it's that vent shaft on the Death Star that Darth's architects forgot about that blows it all to hell. I just don't see it.

I've always been against a national ID but the reasons I'd list would make my above use of the word antiquated way too ironic. I'd be okay with state issued ID cards being free and acceptable, though.

[fyatuk]

Agreed. I used hacking as a throw-away term to cover "messing with machines" or "getting machines wrong" just to illustrate that we're entering a frightening place where a handful of people could really tinker with it all. And while we don't have any proof that it's happened yet - I'm not at all sure we would find proof if it did and that possibility really gnaws at me.

Stricter measures definitely need to be in place regarding security and reliability of e-voting machines. We can absolutely agree on that.


Being worried about polling place fraud seems antiquated to me. But maybe it's that vent shaft on the Death Star that Darth's architects forgot about that blows it all to hell. I just don't see it.

At this point in time, polling place fraud attempts would probably focus on local elections, etc. There's no way to make an organized fraud attempt to affect an election of the size of our federal elections.

I actually don't think there's much in the way of any sort of real election fraud going on. At least, not on such a scale that it would be an actual concern. Voter suppression is the most likely form of illegally influencing an election. That's one of the reasons ACORN annoys me. I'm concerned that some people who think they are registered to vote, are in fact not because ACORN didn't fill out the cards correctly or whatnot (not saying intentionally). Besides, when in some areas of the country 80% or so of their submitted cards have turned out invalid for whatever reason, that's a huge waste of resources in the public sector to verify.


I've always been against a national ID but the reasons I'd list would make my above use of the word antiquated way too ironic. I'd be okay with state issued ID cards being free and acceptable, though.

I'm a big fan of the 10th amendment and I can't STAND the concept of a national ID. I don't even like the idea of standardized state IDs that is the goal of things like REAL ID. I do firmly believe state IDs should be free, but driver's licenses should be charged for (and count as IDs of course).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's what I comprehended-- Your opinion is that Obama using his influence to stop an investigation is the same as Hilter exterminating 8 million+ Jews, Slavs, Poles, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, gypsies, Russians, political dissenters, disabled and mentally ill people in concentration camps, invading numerous countries, and preaching a philosophy of racial superiority.

That's ridiculous exaggeration by any reckoning, so I stand by my original statement.

You'd have to at least compare him to Nixon 100 times before you leap right to Hitler.

Where the fuck did I ever say shit about exterminating Jews?

This was a reference to Hitler and how when he took control of Germany he used intimidation and the law and concern over allegations to censor anyone opposed to him.

The only ridiculous exaggeration is that you somehow took my original post and came to any sort of conclusion that I was equating Obama's DOJ bitchfest with Hitler's practicing mass murder.

Comical, but typical from you libtards.

[boutons_]

There is already a hodge podge of IDs.

Why not make a free, official national photo ID readable with bar code and mag stripe?

Americans' privacy has been raped 100s of times by corps and govt, there is no personal privacy, so why cling to the long-dead myth that a national ID card would be an invasion of privacy or whatever else is imagined?

[Cry Havoc]

Where the fuck did I ever say shit about exterminating Jews?

Aggie, if you really think you can make a comparison between Obama and Hitler (Godwining yourself in the process) without being called out for exaggerating, you're horribly naive. To compare a presidential candidate for the United States of America to a mass-murderer, in any form or context, is ridiculous, uncalled for, and can be seen as little other than trolling. For you to think the reference is adequate speaks to your lack of objectivity and your inability to accurately assess the situation. I'm no McCain fan, but I would never even breathe his name in the same sentence as some of the most heinous criminals in human history. You don't have to respect Obama, but when you attempt to have rationale discourse, perhaps you should keep the Nazi references to a minimum.


This was a reference to Hitler and how when he took control of Germany he used intimidation and the law and concern over allegations to censor anyone opposed to him.

Yes. Obama is certainly censoring everyone who's opposed him. That's why McCain is on TV almost every day, Palin is rolling through the country calling him a terrorist by association, and thousands of McCain supporters are showing up at his rallies. THEY'RE ALL SO INTIMIDATED OH NOES WTF!!!!11

You're ridiculous.

[boutons_]

"he used intimidation and the law and concern over allegations to censor anyone opposed to him."

he = dubya, rummy, dickhead, gonzo, etc.

Oppose me, dickhead? expose yellowcake as bullshit, throwing doubt on entire pile of bullshit "justifying" Iraq-for-oil? I out your wife.

Refuse to witch-hunt "massive voter fraud"? All you US Attorneys are fired.

[Tully365]

Where the fuck did I ever say shit about exterminating Jews?

This was a reference to Hitler and how when he took control of Germany he used intimidation and the law and concern over allegations to censor anyone opposed to him.

The only ridiculous exaggeration is that you somehow took my original post and came to any sort of conclusion that I was equating Obama's DOJ bitchfest with Hitler's practicing mass murder.

Comical, but typical from you libtards.

Literally thousands of politicians in history have tried to manipulate and influence investigations. There is an entire profession of people-- lawyers-- who do this every day. The fact that you chose to compare Obama not to Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Churchill, Lincoln, Jefferson, or Marcus Aurelius but rather to Hitler, the man that almost all people agree is among the most evil in history clearly shows that you are prone to melodramatic exaggerations to make a heavy-handed point. Being coy now and saying, oh gee, I didn't mean to infer anything about holocausts or evil world domination plans is, at best, weak. people don't make analogies without reasons-- the whole point of analogies in a political debate is to show connotative similarities, which is exactly what you were doing. It would be like me saying that you look a lot like like Hillary Clinton.... no, no, I don't mean you look like a woman.... I'm just saying that you have arms and legs and a head!

[Tully365]

"he used intimidation and the law and concern over allegations to censor anyone opposed to him."

he = dubya, rummy, dickhead, gonzo, etc.

Oppose me, dickhead? expose yellowcake as bullshit, throwing doubt on entire pile of bullshit "justifying" Iraq-for-oil? I out your wife.

Refuse to witch-hunt "massive voter fraud"? All you US Attorneys are fired.

I swear you and Aggie hoopsfan were separated at birth. You two share the exact same temperament.

[fyatuk]

There is already a hodge podge of IDs.

Why not make a free, official national photo ID readable with bar code and mag stripe?

Americans' privacy has been raped 100s of times by corps and govt, there is no personal privacy, so why cling to the long-dead myth that a national ID card would be an invasion of privacy or whatever else is imagined?

That has nothing to do with my objections. My objections center around the repeated raping and violations of the 10th Amendment that have occurred over the last 140 years or so and not wanting yet another program to ignore what was once a key point in getting the Constitution ratified.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you know that Mike Godwin went to UT?

[Tully365]

Did you know that Mike Godwin went to UT?

Are you fu&king kidding me?! That place is like a Police State!!! The sky above UT is a disgusting collection of baby-killing clouds! The milk in the cafeteria brainwashes students to grow up into little hilters, stalins, and jerry springers!!

[Winehole23]

Are you fu&king kidding me?! That place is like a Police State!!! The sky above UT is a disgusting collection of baby-killing clouds! The milk in the cafeteria brainwashes students to grow up into little hilters, stalins, and jerry springers!!