So I have a tough decision to make. It must be God week around here.

[BacktoBasics]

If you've read any of my posts or visited the political forum recently you know I'm not a huge advocate for religion and God speak. This doesn't mean I hate it entirely. One of our girls has been going to local church functions with my wife's brother for some time now. I've given her the run down on what church and religion is all about she has a pretty good grasp on the good, bad and ugly when it comes to what an organized religious based system is all about. I told her she could decide for herself what she wants to believe and not believe but that we would have no part in any activities that pushed a childs belief in one direction based on fear or damnation. This has all been more of a social thing than a church function. Pretty much all the activities and gatherings have been positive and fun nearly devoid of hardcore religious propaganda and general pandering.

Well there is a retreat coming up and its not just a day thing but a weekend planned to gather the kids and go camping in a safe not so far away area. Advertised to bring kids closer to nature and god. My fear is this is where they take it from egg tosses, hay rides and innocent socializing to serious preaching. I'm inclined to tell her she can't go. Not because I don't want her to be friends with her peers but I don't want them warping her mind with hellfire and brimstone. Now so far I haven't seen any of that and a good part of me feels if she's preached to she'll see through it but these regular social gatherings are accessible by just about anyone and its a come and go thing where as this is going to be an isolated somewhat closed door event. 30 kids 3 already in place chaperones so I've explored that avenue.

Judgement call. Your thoughts?

[Slomo]

How old is she?

[I Love Me Some Me]

What is it exactly that you're afraid of?

[CosmicCowboy]

volunteer to chaperone and see for yourself since you aren't selling any trailers these days. You could make some extra cash by getting a bag from bigzak and selling dirt weed joints to the kids.

[CavsSuperFan]

LOL@ an atheist giving a child an objective opinion on what “church and religion is all about”…

I guess you skipped the part about “salvation by grace through faith”….

[ORION]

dang what religion is this? They really don't try and scare kids anymore not that I'm aware of.

[BacktoBasics]

How old is she?

12


What is it exactly that you're afraid of?

Brainwashing her into believing that there is only one way to live her life and thats by the word of god or she'll be damned to hell. I feel like she's old enough to be beyond that but even grown adults have been manipulated before.

They tell you weird shit too like dinosaurs walked with man and crap like that. I don't want false info diluting her mind.

If it was anything else I'd be hardly worried but the Angel Luv posts has scared the crap out of me. You know she didn't wake up one day being that way it was instilled in her over time. Maybe at a camp I don't know.

[SpursWoman]

I let my daughter go with one of her friends to a weekend retreat (her friend is not the same religion) and she didn't come back brainwashed or anything. :lol

She actually had a good time, and we're not a particularly religious household.


Oh, and since your stepdaughter is the same age my daughter was when she went, there should be plenty of hormonal pre-teenage drama to distract her. Because that neven ends, even in church camp. :spin

[xtremesteven33]

I think you should be more scared of, of what she watches on tv or does with her friends on the weekend then what she learns in church.

[ORION]

:lol

[BacktoBasics]

volunteer to chaperone and see for yourself since you aren't selling any trailers these days. You could make some extra cash by getting a bag from bigzak and selling dirt weed joints to the kids.
I did that. They already have 3 or 4 set in place. They aren't making room for anymore because they don't want the kids to feel like their being watched over by mommy and daddy. This way they can explore nature independently.

I probably worded that in a bad light. Didn't sound that bad the way it was described to me. Doesn't mean it didn't scare me shitless.

Thanks for reminding me how bad my job is right now.

[ORION]

maybe its outdoors so they can watch for the alien landings

[desflood]

I think you should be more scared of, of what she watches on tv or does with her friends on the weekend then what she learns in church.
+1

[BacktoBasics]

LOL@ an atheist giving a child an objective opinion on what “church and religion is all about”…

I guess you skipped the part about “salvation by grace through faith”….

Sorry but I'm not raising my kids to think without common sense. My opinions are based on rational thought and real applicable truths not mumbo jumbo.


dang what religion is this? They really don't try and scare kids anymore not that I'm aware of. I'm not sure.

[ORION]

I went through 12 years of catholic schooling and I turned out great

[xtremesteven33]

12



Brainwashing her into believing that there is only one way to live her life and thats by the word of god or she'll be damned to hell. I feel like she's old enough to be beyond that but even grown adults have been manipulated before.

They tell you weird shit too like dinosaurs walked with man and crap like that. I don't want false info diluting her mind.

If it was anything else I'd be hardly worried but the Angel Luv posts has scared the crap out of me. You know she didn't wake up one day being that way it was instilled in her over time. Maybe at a camp I don't know.




I just find it funny how people think that Christians are these psycho,wierd,ignorant fools who dont know how to take part in critical thinking.

Christian people are some of the most intelectual people in the world. Even if you are not a Christian. Being an atheist doesnt prove anything as far as intelect goes along.

And believing in the Bible isnt called being brainwashed. Being brainwashed by a certain sect of people would imply that they are a cult. Christianity is not a cult. That girl is safe.

[BacktoBasics]

I think you should be more scared of, of what she watches on tv or does with her friends on the weekend then what she learns in church.
Unlike previous generations these kids are desensitized to TV and movies....just doesn't have the same impact it on america it once did. We do keep our eyes on who they run with on the weekends.

[Soul_Patch]

I think thins like this can only help her make up her own mind over time. At her age, she isn't going to have any huge revelation regardless of what they tell her (if they tell her anything). She probably wont even be paying attention long enough to remember anything official anyway.

She wants to go, to hang out with her friends and get into the pre-teen drama, as Spurswoman said...

Let her go...she needs to experience these things, you arent goint to force her hand one way or the other, regardless of what you think.

[lurker23]

I'll preface my reply in the same manner I did in the political forum: I am a person of faith, so therefore my world view is obviously impacted by this.

I think one thing is fairly certain here: Whether directly or indirectly, your daughter will be preached to at this event. It could be something as subtle as thanking God around the campfire, or it could be something as direct as a sermon on Sunday and direct question/answer sessions among the group. If this makes you uncomfortable, it is within your rights as a parent to not allow her to go.

However, if you are asking for advice, I would suggest that you allow her to go. The bottom line is, she's going to hear information like this at one point or another. It could be now, it could be in college while walking from one class to another, or any of another dozen events where religion enters our life intentionally or unintentionally. However, this is your opportunity to control how and when she hears this. It sounds like this will be a safe, controlled environment with people she knows and trusts. I'd say that's a much better way to get introduced to Christian concepts than from a yelling preacher on the street corner shouting about hellfire.

The bottom line is that one day she'll have to make up her own mind about where she stands with such beliefs. If you'd like, you can continue to reiterate to her that no matter how persistent people are, she needs to choose for herself what to believe, and not be forced into anything. That's perfectly fine, but I don't think you have to worry about anyone brainwashing her at this event. She'll likely just get information, which she'll get one way or another anyway.

[mrsmaalox]

You say she's been hanging out with these people for a while now? So you've met and talked with the parents and the kids? I think you should be able to tell to what degree they are involved. These kids are her peers, so outside of you, they are her first line of information. Has she told you that her friends have presented that kind of thinking to her? Because if you're worried about kids being influenced, well her friends have likely been raised in that church, and you should be able to see that influence in them. It's just like anything else in parenting, you don't want her to associate with people who may not be the kind of influence you want for her; check out her friends, you'll know right away if they are being "indoctrinated." Then if you decide to let her go, just open up a line of discussion when she gets back and let her tell you what she saw/heard and how she felt about it. I really think it would take more than a weekend to make a serious impression. :)

[xtremesteven33]

Unlike previous generations these kids are desensitized to TV and movies....just doesn't have the same impact it on america it once did. We do keep our eyes on who they run with on the weekends.



Yea what was on back then?

Elvis being filmed from waist up on TV so people wouldnt see him shaking his hips?


Tv and movies are so much worse now than ever. Kids are being brainwashed on TV. not in church. Actually a Good Christian church would speak out on brainwashing children.

[BacktoBasics]

I just find it funny how people think that Christians are these psycho,wierd,ignorant fools who dont know how to take part in critical thinking.

Let me introduce you to Angel Luv

Christian people are some of the most intelectual people in the world. Even if you are not a Christian. Being an atheist doesnt prove anything as far as intelect goes along.

I never said I was smarter

And believing in the Bible isnt called being brainwashed. Being brainwashed by a certain sect of people would imply that they are a cult. Christianity is not a cult. That girl is safe.In my eyes they are a cult. I'm not saying they are bad though I'm just fearing that behind closed doors they'll bring the damnation and going to hell unless you do as we say talk.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think there are far worse circles your 12 year old could be running in.


My memories of retreats I attended as a kid are mostly about my friends and the fun we had. I don't remember fire and brimstone. You've obviously taught your daughter to take a critical look at things and think for herself. She'll be fine.

[BacktoBasics]

Yea what was on back then?

Elvis being filmed from waist up on TV so people wouldnt see him shaking his hips?


Tv and movies are so much worse now than ever. Kids are being brainwashed on TV. not in church. Actually a Good Christian church would speak out on brainwashing children.:lmao I'm not saying that TV isn't worse now than it once was but kids these days aren't affected by it nearly as much as they once were. The majority of kids these days aren't freightened by horror movies they realize its fiction not reality. How many people holed themselves up after the Exorcist? Times have changed.

I don't think its a Christian church though. Baptist, Methodist, non-denominational....I can't remember.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I think you should let her make her own decision when it comes to spiritual matters. And it's better to have your daughter get into a church group and have morals and principals based on religion than have her out blowing guys for cigarettes.

[Soul_Patch]

Not all christians are "fire and brimstone" type christians though, those are honestly few and far between.

B2B, im not at all a hard core christian, i rarely go to church, and wouldn't be ashamed to say, i dont even fully believe in god...but really, when it comes down to it...What is wrong with havnig faith in something? Regardless, we are going to die, and the inevitable will happen, regardless of what that is...we have absolutely no control over it.

Dont force your child to believe the way you do...just let her be, and she will become her own person...you are there to answer the questions along the way, or point out reference material if the questions are unanswerable. (what is god, what happens when you die, etc...)

[CuckingFunt]

I don't think that a full on cult-ish brainwashing will be possible in one weekend. She may find something in the church that she likes, but if you're serious about wanting her to make her own decisions on faith, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I grew up in a similar household in terms of religion -- both of my parents gave up their faith long before I was born, I was never baptized, etc. -- and was already so cynical by 12 that no amount of church functions could have changed my mind.

[CavsSuperFan]

BTB- I can see why you are so annoyed at your daughter attending Bible Camp…She might develop friendships with other girls who read the Bible instead of watching “the girls next door”…Boys who volunteer for community services instead of "getting high & playing X-Box"…Women who advocate responsible behavior…Men who believe in treating women with love & respect…

This goes against everything you stand for!

[BacktoBasics]

BTB- I can see why you are so annoyed at your daughter attending Bible Camp…She might develop friendships with other girls who read the Bible instead of watching “the girls next door”…Boys who volunteer for community services instead of "getting high & playing X-Box"…Women who advocate responsible behavior…Men who believe in treating women with love & respect…

This goes against everything you stand for!Those things are fine. I just don't want to wake up one day and realize I should have put a stop to something that ultimately led to her becoming a person like Angel Luv.

I think I'll probably let her go but I'm going to grill the shit out of her when she returns.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Those things are fine. I just don't want to wake up one day and realize I should have put a stop to something that ultimately led to her becoming a person like Angel Luv.

I think I'll probably let her go but I'm going to grill the shit out of her when she returns.

Is Angel Luv really a terrible person? I'd rather have a daughter end up a Christian Jesus Freak that is polite, nice and caring rather than an immoral, superficial person.

I don't agree with everything Angel Luv believes but there is nothing wrong with being strong in faith and strong in moral values.

[Mixability]

I'd be hardly worried but the Angel Luv posts has scared the crap out of me.

:rollin

[BacktoBasics]

Is Angel Luv really a terrible person? I'd rather have a daughter end up a Christian Jesus Freak that is polite, nice and caring rather than an immoral, superficial person.

I don't agree with everything Angel Luv believes but there is nothing wrong with being strong in faith and strong in moral values.
I don't think she's a terrible person but I would consider myself and my child a failure if they turned out like that. Just because she isn't a murdering thug doesn't negate the ramification of people who are like that.

As a matter of fact you could easily argue that people like her account for more death and destruction than your typical "bad guy".

[Slomo]

12

...

At 12 it's very difficult to brainwash today's kids. At worst (and I think it's improbable) she might come back with some new questions, and given what you wrote you told her so far, questions are not a bad thing.

[Jekka]

If you've read any of my posts or visited the political forum recently you know I'm not a huge advocate for religion and God speak. This doesn't mean I hate it entirely. One of our girls has been going to local church functions with my wife's brother for some time now. I've given her the run down on what church and religion is all about she has a pretty good grasp on the good, bad and ugly when it comes to what an organized religious based system is all about. I told her she could decide for herself what she wants to believe and not believe but that we would have no part in any activities that pushed a childs belief in one direction based on fear or damnation. This has all been more of a social thing than a church function. Pretty much all the activities and gatherings have been positive and fun nearly devoid of hardcore religious propaganda and general pandering.

Well there is a retreat coming up and its not just a day thing but a weekend planned to gather the kids and go camping in a safe not so far away area. Advertised to bring kids closer to nature and god. My fear is this is where they take it from egg tosses, hay rides and innocent socializing to serious preaching. I'm inclined to tell her she can't go. Not because I don't want her to be friends with her peers but I don't want them warping her mind with hellfire and brimstone. Now so far I haven't seen any of that and a good part of me feels if she's preached to she'll see through it but these regular social gatherings are accessible by just about anyone and its a come and go thing where as this is going to be an isolated somewhat closed door event. 30 kids 3 already in place chaperones so I've explored that avenue.

Judgement call. Your thoughts?

I got sent to Bible-beater camp with hardcore southern baptists for 7 summers of my youth, hundreds of other retreats through the high school church youth group, and lots of adventures with Reverend Mom, and there were still a lot of us participating who knew that we weren't really going to hell, and were just there for the outdoor activities. It comes down to whether or not your kid's got a good head on her shoulders, and how you plan on debriefing once she gets back.

One trip like this is probably going to be a good learning experience. And, if it's free of alter-calls, feet-washing, shaming, games with analogies of damnation, etc., then it's really not a bad deal. I would check for any of the aforementioned activities upon her return, though, those are my personal red flags.

[xtremesteven33]

Before i became a Christian i never was a Critical thinker.

Its funny how people say that if you believe in the Bible you abandon common sense and rationality. When in fact i know of MANY teenagers and young people who never actually started to think about Truth,Philosophy,Culture until they became a Christian.

So the notion that once someone becomes a Christian THEY STOP thinking is totally false. I actually since i became A Christian never stop thinking. Critical thinking is one of the main strong points of Christianity.

[BacktoBasics]

Before i became a Christian i never was a Critical thinker.

Its funny how people say that if you believe in the Bible you abandon common sense and rationality. When in fact i know of MANY teenagers and young people who never actually started to think about Truth,Philosophy,Culture until they became a Christian.

So the notion that once someone becomes a Christian is totally false. I actually since i became A Christian never stop thinking. Critical thinking is one of the main strong points of Christianity.I'm not in any way saying all Christians are like that. I'm talking about the hardcore warriors who's judgement is clouded by gods word.

[xtremesteven33]

I'm not in any way saying all Christians are like that. I'm talking about the hardcore warriors who's judgement is clouded by gods word.



well you cant really have it both ways. A TRUE Christian is someone who takes the words of Christ with heart. When Jesus said "Preach the Gospel".
That means we gotta do it.

You cant be a morally good Christian and yet not obey they commandments of Christ. According to the Bible. At first it sounds harsh but people dont realize the entire story of Salvation.

[BacktoBasics]

well you cant really have it both ways. A TRUE Christian is someone who takes the words of Christ with heart. When Jesus said "Preach the Gospel".
That means we gotta do it.

You cant be a morally good Christian and yet not obey they commandments of Christ. According to the Bible. At first it sounds harsh but people dont realize the entire story of Salvation.
I can absolutely have it both ways just like the Christians do. A true Christian may be expected to think and do a certain way but not all do. Therefore I can assess my situation based on reality not the idea of their perfect world.

I can fear some and not rationally thinking others.

[remingtonbo2001]

I just find it funny how people think that Christians are these psycho,wierd,ignorant fools who dont know how to take part in critical thinking.

Christian people are some of the most intelectual people in the world. Even if you are not a Christian. Being an atheist doesnt prove anything as far as intelect goes along.

And believing in the Bible isnt called being brainwashed. Being brainwashed by a certain sect of people would imply that they are a cult. Christianity is not a cult. That girl is safe.


I think you should let her make her own decision when it comes to spiritual matters. And it's better to have your daughter get into a church group and have morals and principals based on religion than have her out blowing guys for cigarettes.


BTB- I can see why you are so annoyed at your daughter attending Bible Camp…She might develop friendships with other girls who read the Bible instead of watching “the girls next door”…Boys who volunteer for community services instead of "getting high & playing X-Box"…Women who advocate responsible behavior…Men who believe in treating women with love & respect…

This goes against everything you stand for!


Is Angel Luv really a terrible person? I'd rather have a daughter end up a Christian Jesus Freak that is polite, nice and caring rather than an immoral, superficial person.

I don't agree with everything Angel Luv believes but there is nothing wrong with being strong in faith and strong in moral values.

+1

Veronica is one of the kindest individuals that I know of. I also know there are numerous individuals which would stand up for character that Veronica embodies.

Really, what's your deal B2B? Christianity isn't soley defined by a Johnathan Edwards sermon. In most cases, church provides a healthy and proactive environment.

Honestly, I think you should grow up a little.

However, I do understand that you care deeply for your daughter, and you are attempting to look out for her best intrests. I admire that. There are many children, even with a present gardian, who don't recieve the attention they deserve.

I hope you are able to take the advice others have offered and come to a wise decision.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Brainwashing her into believing that there is only one way to live her life and thats by the word of god or she'll be damned to hell. I feel like she's old enough to be beyond that but even grown adults have been manipulated before.

They tell you weird shit too like dinosaurs walked with man and crap like that. I don't want false info diluting her mind.

If it was anything else I'd be hardly worried but the Angel Luv posts has scared the crap out of me. You know she didn't wake up one day being that way it was instilled in her over time. Maybe at a camp I don't know.

Depends on the church/minister. I would just guess that if they haven't tried to "brainwash" her by now, it's not going to happen on this retreat. A lot of churches nowadays are turning very far away from the "fire and brimstone, come to Jesus" message. The message they are sending now is one of God's love, and his acceptance of who they are, the way they are.

That being said, it's not entirely beyond the realm of possiblity that she will have a very real spiritual experience on this trip. That is known to happen.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

I'm not a parent, but I'd likely let her go and then have a conversation before telling her that she has the right to question anything she doesn't understand, that she can call you to come get her if she ever feels uncomfortable and that you'll happily help her with whatever questions she might have afterward. This is the sort of disclaimer I always got when embarking on such events.

I had several encounters with Bible camps when I was a kid and they were mostly innocuous. Granted, I got sent home once for asking uncomfortable questions, but most of the other experience were fun and harmless. By and large most Christians do mean well -- even the loopy ones. And if they really crazy fundamentalist types, you'd have some indication by now.

In these sorts of things it is my experience very little time is spent on high-pressure faith, they are mostly about bonding and fellowship which is a good way for your daughter to learn about coming to terms with being in the company of religious people, even if she does not choose to follow their faith.

Really by 12 she should have some basic skepticism all built up. It's not like she's 5 where they introduce the brainwashing along with grape soda and nilla wafers after nap time.

[clambake]

don't do it. anyone that tells me they prefer that i'm not around while they're taking care of my kid is nuts.

[leemajors]

Before i became a Christian i never was a Critical thinker.

sounds like a personal problem to me.

[BacktoBasics]

+1

Veronica is one of the kindest individuals that I know of. I also know there are numerous individuals which would stand up for character that Veronica embodies.

Really, what's your deal B2B? Christianity isn't soley defined by a Johnathan Edwards sermon. In most cases, church provides a healthy and proactive environment.

Honestly, I think you should grow up a little.

However, I do understand that you care deeply for your daughter, and you are attempting to look out for her best intrests. I admire that. There are many children, even with a present gardian, who don't recieve the attention they deserve.

I hope you are able to take the advice others have offered and come to a wise decision.

I said I would likely let her go and I never once said that Angel isn't a good intentioned person I just don't want my kids to end up so dependent on something other than themselves, especially religion or god. Just because she's dillusional and irrational doesn't mean I think she's an ugly person. Even though she is the epitome with whats wrong in this world I still don't think she's an evil soul. Mistaught, misguided, misled...on and on.

She's a complete loon but I'd be happy to do anything for her if she asked. I'd even let her babysit the kids. Its not as much of a personal attack as you think.


don't do it. anyone that tells me they prefer that i'm not around while they're taking care of my kid is nuts.That was my initial thought.

[ploto]

Any chance you will tell us the church or denomination because that really has a lot to do with it. Some retreats for kids are more fun and community building and some are very controlled and geared toward one end result- altar call.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not 100% certain but I just asked my other brother in law and he thinks its non-denominational.

I'm not sure what exactly that harbors but their aunt (the brothers wife for retards) believes the bible word for word verbatim and yeah I've touched on that with the kids before.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Why not do a little google search on it and see what comes up.

[xtremesteven33]

sounds like a personal problem to me.



yea i was the typical high school "get drunk, get laid" mindset.

[ploto]

They should have no problem telling you exactly what is planned for the weekend- especially if you are allowing a 12 year old to go. Any hesitation to be forthright would raise concern for me- no matter the situation.

[Soul_Patch]

I think you should send her to this camp! This is fuckin awesome! Maybe she could hang out with that kid with the rat tail!

FzOaaLN5vvk

[xtremesteven33]

They should have no problem telling you exactly what is planned for the weekend- especially if you are allowing a 12 year old to go. Any hesitation to be forthright would raise concern for me- no matter the situation.



ur right. I dont agree with alot of the "Jesus Camps" that go on now days. I do think that SOME of the activities do seem like it is brainwashing but at the same time this is not a reflection on Christianity.

That movie "Jesus Camp" did potray Christians as the nuttiest people on the face of the earth. HAHA.....it was very wierd what they made them do but i know for sure those kind of camps are very few and far between. But i think you should look into what shes getting into.

[MannyIsGod]

She's 12, you should be more worried that there's a cute boy she finds at the camp and sneaks off into the bushes with than anything else.

I say let her go. I went all kinds of catholic retreats in my teen years and for the most part they were fun. There was a good deal of preaching that went on but its not like any of us really cared.

[xtremesteven33]

She's 12, you should be more worried that there's a cute boy she finds at the camp and sneaks off into the bushes with than anything else.

I say let her go. I went all kinds of catholic retreats in my teen years and for the most part they were fun. There was a good deal of preaching that went on but its not like any of us really cared.


i think hes scared like she might come back like a robot.

but you are absolutely right

[Soul_Patch]

ur right. I dont agree with alot of the "Jesus Camps" that go on now days. I do think that SOME of the activities do seem like it is brainwashing but at the same time this is not a reflection on Christianity.

That movie "Jesus Camp" did potray Christians as the nuttiest people on the face of the earth. HAHA.....it was very wierd what they made them do but i know for sure those kind of camps are very few and far between. But i think you should look into what shes getting into.



Yea obviously the "jesus camp" movie is the extreme, and i doubt there are many like it...the fact that there are ANY like it is fuckin disturbing though. The fact that there are MILLIONS of folks in this country that dont see anything wrong with it is REALLY fucking disturbing.

In conclusion though, i stick with my original sentiment. Unless you can verify it is some whackjob demonination of christianity, let her go and have fun.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

She's 12, you should be more worried that there's a cute boy she finds at the camp and sneaks off into the bushes with than anything else.

I strongly suspect this is NOT the way to win over the father of a 12-year-old girl. New talking points, hon.

[JudynTX]

Church Forum

[BacktoBasics]

Ok she's going but she has to sit through Jesus Camp and Zeitgeist before she goes.

[Soul_Patch]

Ok she's going but she has to sit through Jesus Camp and Zeitgeist before she goes.

Lol...thats not a bad idea...i watched that shit a while back and its scary stuff.

If she comes back with a rat tail haircut, then you know something went wrong.

[xtremesteven33]

Ok she's going but she has to sit through Jesus Camp and Zeitgeist before she goes.



then wouldnt that be a form of brainwashing also?

[JoeChalupa]

Generally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Unless you suspect it is cult I wouldn't worry too much about it. My kids have gone with friends to church services and they didn't come back with a brainwashed view at all. If anything they learned a slightly different way of worshiping is all. I'm raising them Catholic but we've also gone to other churches, although Mouse will dispute it since I didn't go to CrazyOne's church, when invited. No harm done.

[JoeChalupa]

then wouldnt that be a form of brainwashing also?

I concur :tu

[JoeChalupa]

Church Forum

:lmao

[BacktoBasics]

then wouldnt that be a form of brainwashing also?Two ends of the spectrum ok. You can see one extreme to the other and hopefully come to the conclusion that normality is somewhere inbetween.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Ok she's going but she has to sit through Jesus Camp and Zeitgeist before she goes.

JC, the movie, was awesomeness. When the fuck did everyone get so crazy?

And why does my lion avy look like MaryAnn? WTF?

[xtremesteven33]

Two ends of the spectrum ok. You can see one extreme to the other and hopefully come to the conclusion that normality is somewhere inbetween.




r u serious?

[MannyIsGod]

I strongly suspect this is NOT the way to win over the father of a 12-year-old girl. New talking points, hon.

Oh I didn't want to win him over. My only purpose was to make him squirm with the fear that is teenage pregnancy. Its cruel but awfully entertaining.

[BacktoBasics]

r u serious?
No it was sarcasm. That doesn't mean that there isn't something to gain from either movie about the extremes in beliefs we live in.

[BacktoBasics]

Oh I didn't want to win him over. My only purpose was to make him squirm with the fear that is teenage pregnancy. Its cruel but awfully entertaining.Abortion Forum

[xtremesteven33]

No it was sarcasm. That doesn't mean that there isn't something to gain from either movie about the extremes in beliefs we live in.



eh i can see what ur saying but dont you think 12 is way too young for all that information?

Best thing to do man is just let it be. There is so much info out there, intriguing minds will get it.

[jcrod]

How does your brother in law act, does he have kids and how do they act?

I honestly don't think its a brainwashing type function. She'll be fine, as everyone stated, at her age they're thinking of other things than going to hell if they don't follow a certain path.

[Stump]

First off, I am a Christian, if that is important to you.

I agree with many of the posters who are saying that if this group were the 'fire and brimstone' type, you'd probably already know at this point. Those kinds don't reach out to outsiders as much, anyway.

Didn't you mention that this is your brother-in-law's church? If so, you should direct some of your questions towards him. I'm sure he will be willing to talk with you. Also, what is your wife's stance?

I respect the fact that you are allowing your daughter to explore these issues somewhat on her own even if you disagree. Much of your approach displays a lot of wisdom to me. However, I do think your view towards Christians is stereotyped and slightly paranoid. Although there are certainly some 'Christian' groups that are really out there and not even I would allow my kids to go along with, I think you shouldn't be so distrustful if they've done no wrong so far.

[BacktoBasics]

eh i can see what ur saying but dont you think 12 is way too young for all that information?

Best thing to do man is just let it be. There is so much info out there, intriguing minds will get it.I'm not trying to be offensive but that is one of the most idiotic things ever stated. Its our jobs as parents to teach our youth and educate them on as much as possible about whats really around us.

To assume that our kids will "seek info" is highly irresponsible especially in this day and age of entitled slackers who flood the workforce with shitty habits and even less brain work and common sense.

12 is way to old to just begin stuffing their minds with as much as possible. My son is 3 and we've already burned two bibles together.

[dirk4mvp]

I go to a youth group thing on Wednesdays night for the sole fact they we play basketball after. Am I going to hell?

[Soul_Patch]

12 is way to old to just begin stuffing their minds with as much as possible. My son is 3 and we've already burned two bibles together.



http://boldt.us/4556-3/ROFL_MAO

[desflood]

My son is 3 and we've already burned two bibles together.
He's 3 already? Holy sh*t, time flies.

At any rate, it already sounds like you've brainwashed your girl into thinking religion is poison. It'll take a lot more than one weekend with the Bible-thumpers to change that opinion.

[BacktoBasics]

How does your brother in law act, does he have kids and how do they act?


To you and Stump. My brother in law thinks religion is a crutch. He's not an advocate for any of it. His wife however lives by the bible. Shockingly and I mean shockingly they've managed to have a good relationship for the last 6 or so years. She has no clue that he could careless about god or religion. He goes to church, plays guitar at their church functions and general plays by her rules. For him the sacrifice of living in a world he doesn't approve of is worth having her rather than losing her. He made that decision years back. When she's not around he drinks, smokes dope listens to rap/rock music and is a normal average dude. Pussy is a powerful drug.

I am planning on asking questions tonight when we get together for pool. I'll feel better after tonight I'm sure.

[BacktoBasics]

I go to a youth group thing on Wednesdays night for the sole fact they we play basketball after. Am I going to hell?

No

basketball > potentially being brainwashed


He's 3 already? Holy sh*t, time flies.

At any rate, it already sounds like you've brainwashed your girl into thinking religion is poison. It'll take a lot more than one weekend with the Bible-thumpers to change that opinion.
He'll be three Dec. 14th.

[xtremesteven33]

I'm not trying to be offensive but that is one of the most idiotic things ever stated. Its our jobs as parents to teach our youth and educate them on as much as possible about whats really around us.

To assume that our kids will "seek info" is highly irresponsible especially in this day and age of entitled slackers who flood the workforce with shitty habits and even less brain work and common sense.

12 is way to old to just begin stuffing their minds with as much as possible. My son is 3 and we've already burned two bibles together.



I dont get you atheists. i seriously dont. If Christianity is false. Why do you hate it so much? If it is of no use and is fake, why do you guard your children from it as if they will suffer eternal damnation if they were to even hear the words spoken by Jesus?


Atheists are the most complicated people. Seriously. And by the way, You burning the Bible with your 3 year old son just shows how obsessive you are with a "false" religion that you claim is making people crazy.

U burned a Bible with your 3 year old son???? psycho

[dirk4mvp]

No

basketball > potentially being brainwashed




lol, brainwashed

I don't pay attention. I spend the entire hour talking to the females. What's he gonna do tell me to get out of god's house?

[JoeChalupa]

Brainwashing works both ways. You either brainwash them to think religion is ridiculous or that religion is helpful. We are brainwashed from birth into what our parents want us to be. Some kids are being brainwashed not to eat red meat, or to excercise, or to study, or to bathe...etc....

[BacktoBasics]

I dont get you atheists. i seriously dont. If Christianity is false. Why do you hate it so much? If it is of no use and is fake, why do you guard your children from it as if they will suffer eternal damnation if they were to even hear the words spoken by Jesus?


Atheists are the most complicated people. Seriously. And by the way, You burning the Bible with your 3 year old son just shows how obsessive you are with a "false" religion that you claim is making people crazy.

U burned a Bible with your 3 year old son???? psychoI don't guard my children from it. She goes to church functions for christ sake. I just don't feel good about them isolating her for a weekend. I hate it because it distorts the truth and affects the ability to make good decisions by not just normal people but all people.

I don't believe in eternal damnation I just think Christianity isn't believable as a source of fact. Some of the very core beliefs and morals I have and instill in my kids aren't different or very different from Christian beliefs.

Don't kill
be good to others
don't steal

some fundamental shit is ok I just don't add the proverbial

or god will frown on you

or you're going to hell

or because god says so

I preach doing whats right because its right and you have the free will to be and act properly not becuase their is a fear of god behind it.

:rolleyes I'm even going to address your last line. What I burn with my son is my personal business.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's only one weekend.

Let her watch R rated movies when she comes back.

Problem solved.

[JoeChalupa]

It's only one weekend.

Let her watch R rated movies when she comes back.

Problem solved.

Or a Bible burning.

[thispego]

dontlet her go, you dont want her buying in to that bullshit

[JoeChalupa]

Buyer beware!

[BacktoBasics]

Brainwashing works both ways. You either brainwash them to think religion is ridiculous or that religion is helpful. We are brainwashed from birth into what our parents want us to be. Some kids are being brainwashed not to eat red meat, or to excercise, or to study, or to bathe...etc....
I won't disagree.

I teach that in a moral capacity some aspects of religion are of great value but when the core belief in god is used as a weapon its fundamentally wrong and disasterous. Wanna read the bible no problem because I think the bible was written to tell stories, some based in truth and some based in fiction, but for the most part it was written to teach right from wrong on many many levels and there is good to be taken from it just like all fables and fairy tales.

I don't tell my kids to hate on god or hate all religion I do however tell them that for many people its the only thing they have that allows them to get up each day and function and without it they're lost because they've put all of themselves into it. The majority of people in this world are incapable of existing without purpose, they're incapable of being orderly and accountable unless there is something to actually hold them accountable. A higher power...a purpose a reason. They have to have a reason.

I tell my kids that they can be every bit as good a person and strong of a person by their own hand and mind without the help of anything or anyone else. Its already inside you and you don't need gods guidence to be a good, successful, responsible person.

[JoeChalupa]

I won't disagree.

I teach that in a moral capacity some aspects of religion are of great value but when the core belief in god is used as a weapon its fundamentally wrong and disasterous. Wanna read the bible no problem because I think the bible was written to tell stories, some based in truth and some based in fiction, but for the most part it was written to teach right from wrong on many many levels and there is good to be taken from it just like all fables and fairy tales.

I don't tell my kids to hate on god or hate all religion I do however tell them that for many people its the only thing they have that allows them to get up each day and function and without it they're lost because they've put all of themselves into it. The majority of people in this world are incapable of existing without purpose, they're incapable of being orderly and accountable unless there is something to actually hold them accountable. A higher power...a purpose a reason. They have to have a reason.

I tell my kids that they can be every bit as good a person and strong of a person by their own hand and mind without the help of anything or anyone else. Its already inside you and you don't need gods guidence to be a good, successful, responsible person.

I can understand that point of view I just happen to be one that does believe in the guidance of God's hand. I've had too many incidents in my life that for me anyway cannot just be described as just a "coincidental" event. But that is just me.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

To assume that our kids will "seek info" is highly irresponsible especially in this day and age of entitled slackers who flood the workforce with shitty habits and even less brain work and common sense.

Hey! I was unschooled and I couldn't agree with it more. The entire foundation (and success) of unschooling is that children are innately curious. Children today have more information coming at them in a day than most of their parents did in a week. They are not slackers or lazy. Studies, in fact, indicate, they're just exhausted and over-stimulated.

Of course i have been playing on a web forum all day....

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

U burned a Bible with your 3 year old son???? psycho

I'd assume he was joking. B2B is too poor to afford two bibles.

[BacktoBasics]

Hey! I was unschooled and I couldn't agree with it more. The entire foundation (and success) of unschooling is that children are innately curious. Children today have more information coming at them in a day than most of their parents did in a week. They are not slackers or lazy. Studies, in fact, indicate, they're just exhausted and over-stimulated.

Of course i have been playing on a web forum all day....Perhaps its more of a lack of ability to digest info not the actual quantity.

Not to mention the fact that everything is exhausting and over stimulating to a slacker.

[xtremesteven33]

I'd assume he was joking. B2B is too poor to afford two bibles.


No he said he did.....

so let me get this straight...

- U think the Bible has some truth to it
-U think alot of it is "made up" stories
-U burn the Bible
-U hate the Bible
-U hate Christianity
-U want your kids to be morally good apart from believeing all the words of the Bible
-U think all people who believe the words of the Bible are delusional
-U dont believe ALL the words of Jesus
-U admit the Bible carries good moral life standards
-Hence the Bible would make you a better person
- But you burn the Bible????



dude......

[IronMexican]

I'm like complete opposite of you're situation. I don't believe in none of that shit, but my family is all about god and that. I did my confirmation cause my dad paid me 5 bills though.

[BacktoBasics]

No he said he did.....

so let me get this straight...

- U think the Bible has some truth to it YES
-U think alot of it is "made up" stories YES
-U burn the Bible NO
-U hate the Bible NO
-U hate Christianity Tough answer I dislike organized religion and I don't believe in god
-U want your kids to be morally good apart from believeing all the words of the Bible Somewhat correct
-U think all people who believe the words of the Bible are delusional If you believe it to based in pure fact and that the bible should be taken word for word then yes
-U dont believe ALL the words of Jesus I don't know all the words but there is some stuff I completely disagree with
-U admit the Bible carries good moral life standards From what I know for the most part the basis is morally agreeable but not in its entirety
-Hence the Bible would make you a better person No not entirely depends on how the tool is used.
- But you burn the Bible???? lol



dude......I HAVE NEVER BURNED A BIBLE I WASN'T SERIOUS. :rolleyes

[xtremesteven33]

I HAVE NEVER BURNED A BIBLE I WASN'T SERIOUS. :rolleyes



Well you got me all riled up there. I know someone who used to tear pages and write profanity all over his Bible so it wouldnt come off as a TOTAL suprise if you had done it. My apologies.

[BacktoBasics]

Well you got me all riled up there. I know someone who used to tear pages and write profanity all over his Bible so it wouldnt come off as a TOTAL suprise if you had done it. My apologies.
Apology accepted.

[baseline bum]

LOL@ an atheist giving a child an objective opinion on what “church and religion is all about”…

I guess you skipped the part about “salvation by grace through faith”….

Better than someone who tells a kid he's going to hell for not believing the fairy tales.

[xtremesteven33]

Better than someone who tells a kid he's going to hell for not believing the fairy tales.



:sleep

[JoeChalupa]

Nothing like a good fairy tale to put my kid to sleep.

[CuckingFunt]

No he said he did.....

so let me get this straight...

- U think the Bible has some truth to it
-U think alot of it is "made up" stories
-U burn the Bible
-U hate the Bible
-U hate Christianity
-U want your kids to be morally good apart from believeing all the words of the Bible
-U think all people who believe the words of the Bible are delusional
-U dont believe ALL the words of Jesus
-U admit the Bible carries good moral life standards
-Hence the Bible would make you a better person
- But you burn the Bible????



dude......

I wonder if Jesus hate the unnecessary abbreviation of a 3-letter word as much as I do.

[xtremesteven33]

I wonder if Jesus hate the unnecessary abbreviation of a 3-letter word as much as I do.


:blah

[DarkReign]

I wonder if Jesus hate the unnecessary abbreviation of a 3-letter word as much as I do.

:lmao

Fucking awesome.

[BacktoBasics]

I wonder if Jesus hate the unnecessary abbreviation of a 3-letter word as much as I do.Perfection 10/10

[CubanMustGo]

I wonder if Jesus hate the unnecessary abbreviation of a 3-letter word as much as I do.

What, is that the eleventh commandment? Thou shalt not abbreviate? :downspin:

[CuckingFunt]

Perfection 10/10

I don't normally like to argue with my own compliments, but it can't possibly score higher than a 9.8. There's a typo.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't normally like to argue with my own compliments, but it can't possibly score higher than a 9.8. There's a typo.I thought about that but since it was more like a 12/10 the 10/10 compensated accurately.

[marini martini]

Just got back from Coushatta, La:greedy:greedy:greedy:toast
and am catching up on ST posts.:wakeup

B2B, this show must have really traumatized you!!!:toast

PEhwQ7rLZaA

[JudynTX]

Just got back from Coushatta, La:greedy:greedy:greedy:toast
and am catching up on ST posts.:wakeup

B2B, this show must have really traumatized you!!!:toast

PEhwQ7rLZaA

:lmao:lmao:lmao Oh no's! Not the crazy God Warrior!

[BacktoBasics]

Her daughter died in a car wreck last year. Kinda sad.

[to21]

I can understand that point of view I just happen to be one that does believe in the guidance of God's hand. I've had too many incidents in my life that for me anyway cannot just be described as just a "coincidental" event. But that is just me.Do you also use God's hand to hold all those joints you smoke with the mouse?

:lol

[marini martini]

Do you also use God's hand to hold all those joints you smoke with the mouse?

:lol

God made marijuana, so yes he does!:hat:lmao

[ALVAREZ6]

Is Angel Luv really a terrible person? I'd rather have a daughter end up a Christian Jesus Freak that is polite, nice and caring rather than an immoral, superficial person.

I don't agree with everything Angel Luv believes but there is nothing wrong with being strong in faith and strong in moral values.
Since when do you have to be religious to be polite, nice, caring, and have morals?

[peewee's lovechild]

Let her go and tell her to say that she doesn't believe that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

See how that goes.

[ALVAREZ6]

I dont get you atheists. i seriously dont. If Christianity is false. Why do you hate it so much? If it is of no use and is fake, why do you guard your children from it as if they will suffer eternal damnation if they were to even hear the words spoken by Jesus?


Atheists are the most complicated people. Seriously. And by the way, You burning the Bible with your 3 year old son just shows how obsessive you are with a "false" religion that you claim is making people crazy.

U burned a Bible with your 3 year old son???? psycho
Atheists are the most complicated people?

I think it's quite the opposite. An atheist's life is quite simple, never worrying or thinking about religion or having to go to church or living by "God's word".. When I listen to the things some religious people believe in or regularly think about, I realize how complicated their minds can be. I don't see how atheists are the most complicated, there's a huge chunk of material that doesn't pass through their brains and affects their lives regularly...everything is actually much simpler.

[peewee's lovechild]

Will Angel_Luv be a camp counselor?

[phyzik]

whats the difference between organized religion and a cult?

One is older than the other..... thats it.

[marini martini]

Let her go and tell her to say that she doesn't believe that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

See how that goes.

So if they don't "stone" her, she can go back next year????????:toast

[BacktoBasics]

So if they don't "stone" her, she can go back next year????????:toast
I don't know about stone but I'd bone.

[peewee's lovechild]

At 12 it's very difficult to brainwash today's kids. At worst (and I think it's improbable) she might come back with some new questions, and given what you wrote you told her so far, questions are not a bad thing.

I beg to differ.

When I was teaching middle school, one of the things that bothered me the most is that the kids who came into middle school were basically nice, good kids. By the time the first semester was over, they completely changed.

Some of those kids became total sluts, while the boys adopted a violent streak in them. Kids that age are EXTREMELY impressionable.

However, I doubt you'll see many changes over a weekend.

But, I understand were B2B is coming from.

[marini martini]

So if they don't "stone" her, she can go back next year????????:toast


I don't know about stone but I'd bone.

:nope:nope:nope

[ALVAREZ6]

My problem with some religious people is that they are 100% committed to the whole god thing. How can you be 100% sure of something so uncertain, so unprovable? I at least am open minded, I can't be sure what's true, I really don't know. I don't come out and say I'm 100% confident there is no god. The thing is there is nothing yet to lead me to believe their is one, but even if there was or maybe sometime something will happen, I won't say I'm 100% sure there's a god. I think it's irrational to apparently be sure there is a god when it is so uncertain. Also, I just don't understand how people can believe in creationism.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Let her go. . .once she reaches a certain age, she'll be a able (or should be able) to dissect all her beliefs and conlcude whether they're rational or irrational.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

that's what happened to a lot of people I know at least.

[I Love Me Some Me]

My problem with some religious people is that they are 100% committed to the whole god thing. How can you be 100% sure of something so uncertain, so unprovable? I at least am open minded, I can't be sure what's true, I really don't know. I don't come out and say I'm 100% confident there is no god. The thing is there is nothing yet to lead me to believe their is one, but even if there was or maybe sometime something will happen, I won't say I'm 100% sure there's a god. I think it's irrational to apparently be sure there is a god when it is so uncertain. Also, I just don't understand how people can believe in creationism.

My problem with some ATHEIST people is that they are 100% committed to the whole THERE IS NO god thing. How can you be 100% sure of something so uncertain, so unprovable? I at least am open minded, I can't be sure what's true, I really don't know. I don't come out and say I'm 100% confident there is a god. The thing is there is nothing yet to lead me to believe their is NOT one, but even if there wasn't or maybe sometime something will happen, I won't say I'm 100% sure there's no god. I think it's irrational to apparently be sure there is NO god when it is so uncertain. Also, I just don't understand how people can believe in a spontaneous earth.

[BacktoBasics]

My problem with some ATHEIST people is that they are 100% committed to the whole THERE IS NO god thing. How can you be 100% sure of something so uncertain, so unprovable? I at least am open minded, I can't be sure what's true, I really don't know. I don't come out and say I'm 100% confident there is a god. The thing is there is nothing yet to lead me to believe their is NOT one, but even if there wasn't or maybe sometime something will happen, I won't say I'm 100% sure there's no god. I think it's irrational to apparently be sure there is NO god when it is so uncertain. Also, I just don't understand how people can believe in a spontaneous earth.
Most of you do.

[ashbeeigh]

I am a confirmed United Methodist, b2b. I was confirmed around 12 and went to my confirmation classes with a friend to a church I no longer attend because I lost touch with the friend but still consider myself very much a Methodist. I went to the youth group events and retreats and the whole shebang at the time because that's what my friends were doing. There were small moments of clarity for a 12/13 year old at these retreats and youth group things, but I don't remember word for word what they said. Kindness and Faithfulness is what I remember. Of course, this is my experience and experience is different for everyone. I was very happy then (not that I wasn't happy after). My parents didn't have much to do with the church because they went to another church, but they knew this church made me happy, and as parents they knew a happy 12/13 year old was better then an angry or upset one. There are much worse things I could have been doing at the time. I've lost touch with that church, but it shaped who I was and what I've done since. But, whatever she does now will shape her future. And even though this is just a "weekend" come a few months, even weeks from now, she's not even going to remember that "fire and brimstone" message, even if there was a type of message. She's going to remember the fun she had.

Point being, my parents encouraged me to do what made me happy, and doing what makes me happy made me who I am today. I hope that made sense, I was speaking from the heart there.

[ALVAREZ6]

n00bs

[Blake]

.....I'm inclined to tell her she can't go. Not because I don't want her to be friends with her peers but I don't want them warping her mind with hellfire and brimstone.

Good Lord....

a parent that's actually afraid of letting his teenage daughter go on a church retreat because he's afraid that they'll hold out a stopwatch on a chain in front of her and hypnotize the kid into being a Bible beater that rides around on bicycles banging on people's doors during dinner time.

I've got a better idea. Let her hang out with the gangsta kids at school instead and see what kind of retreats they go to on the weekends.

Gimme a friggin break.

[BacktoBasics]

Good Lord....

a parent that's actually afraid of letting his teenage daughter go on a church retreat because he's afraid that they'll hold out a stopwatch on a chain in front of her and hypnotize the kid into being a Bible beater that rides around on bicycles banging on people's doors during dinner time.

I've got a better idea. Let her hang out with the gangsta kids at school instead and see what kind of retreats they go to on the weekends.

Gimme a friggin break.
you can't compare the two you fucking moron. I don't want her being seduced by the thumpers anymore than I want her hanging out with gang members. What a fucking pointless analogy.

Not all bible beaters run around on Huffy's just to make pals. Some and right here on this board want their religion to dominate all humans, their governments and all of mankind. Pretty fucking sick shit regardless of the god facade.

[baseline bum]

My problem with some ATHEIST people is that they are 100% committed to the whole THERE IS NO god thing. How can you be 100% sure of something so uncertain, so unprovable? I at least am open minded, I can't be sure what's true, I really don't know. I don't come out and say I'm 100% confident there is a god. The thing is there is nothing yet to lead me to believe their is NOT one, but even if there wasn't or maybe sometime something will happen, I won't say I'm 100% sure there's no god. I think it's irrational to apparently be sure there is NO god when it is so uncertain. Also, I just don't understand how people can believe in a spontaneous earth.

Few atheists would claim to be 100% sure there is no god. Most atheists believe it's highly unlikely, and that it's ridiculous to believe something that has never been demonstrated. As an atheist, I find it extremely illogical the way believers can't give objective ways to measure god's existence. Everyone says you can feel his presence during prayer, but that more likely to just be people feeling happy when they do something they believe to be good. When I was religious the first 19 years of my life, I always found myself not really believing any of the stuff I tried hard to get, and never feeling this alleged presence of god.

[peewee's lovechild]

I've got a better idea. Let her hang out with the gangsta kids at school instead and see what kind of retreats they go to on the weekends.

Retarded post of the day.

[ALVAREZ6]

Few atheists would claim to be 100% sure there is no god. Most atheists believe it's highly unlikely, and that it's ridiculous to believe something that has never been demonstrated. As an atheist, I find it extremely illogical the way believers can't give objective ways to measure god's existence. Everyone says you can feel his presence during prayer, but that more likely to just be people feeling happy when they do something they believe to be good. When I was religious the first 19 years of my life, I always found myself not really believing any of the stuff I tried hard to get, and never feeling this alleged presence of god.
Probably because this feeling is created by humans. How can they really know or be sure that they've really experienced/witnessed god?

[I Love Me Some Me]

Few atheists would claim to be 100% sure there is no god. Most atheists believe it's highly unlikely, and that it's ridiculous to believe something that has never been demonstrated. As an atheist, I find it extremely illogical the way believers can't give objective ways to measure god's existence. Everyone says you can feel his presence during prayer, but that more likely to just be people feeling happy when they do something they believe to be good. When I was religious the first 19 years of my life, I always found myself not really believing any of the stuff I tried hard to get, and never feeling this alleged presence of god.

Believe. That's what we all do. In fact, it seems to take a heck of a lot more faith to be an Atheist than it does to acknowledge the existence of God.

[Blake]

you can't compare the two you fucking moron. I don't want her being seduced by the thumpers anymore than I want her hanging out with gang members. What a fucking pointless analogy.

Not all bible beaters run around on Huffy's just to make pals. Some and right here on this board want their religion to dominate all humans, their governments and all of mankind. Pretty fucking sick shit regardless of the god facade.

Hey jeenyus. You just did compare the two.

my God, the way you rambled on like a scared myopian to begin this thread, you'd think you were more scared of the church goers than gang bangers.

It's a friggin church retreat. They teach good moral principles to kids, which these kids need to hear from someone other that mom or idiot dad. You sure as hell arent gonna find the public schools teaching your kid good morals any more because they are too scared to even look the wrong way at a kid without being afraid of getting sued by a parent.

yeah, there are some sick people out there that try to impose their belief system on other people whether they want it or not, whether it be regarding religion, politics, sports or BBQ joints, but to lump everyone that believes in God into this category of overblown religious fanatic is disgustingly ignorant.

And if you brought up your daughter the right way already, then by the age of 12, she should have a pretty good grasp of making up her own belief system that YOU arent trying to impose on her, you hypocritical sumbeetch.

[baseline bum]

Believe. That's what we all do. In fact, it seems to take a heck of a lot more faith to be an Atheist than it does to acknowledge the existence of God.

It takes more faith to be an atheist? Are you serious? It takes more faith to believe something we cannot see, hear, touch, smell, etc. doesn't exist than to think it does? So it also takes faith to say it's extremely unlikely there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster just like it's extremely unlikely there is a holy trinity?

[Blake]

Retarded post of the day.

really? let's review:

1. basic doesn't like his kids hanging out with the church kids because they might [and I quote] "warp his daughter's mind"

2. add that to the way he cusses off anyone that even posts in a 3 thread vicinity of his greatness

Basic's daughter: "hey dad, can I go hang out with my church friends this weekend on a church retreat?"

basic: "WHAT?!?! No Fukkin way any daughter of mine is gonna go on some sheety church retreat where they will warp your mind and fark up your belief system. You neede to stay away from these no good POS friends of yours.

daughter: "well, I got some friends who are gonna do some drive by shootings this weekend.....can I go with them?"

basic: "hmmmm.......it's dangerous and illegal, but gosh, it sure is better than you hanging out with those bible thumpers that will mess you up for the rest of your life....."

[I Love Me Some Me]

It takes more faith to be an atheist? Are you serious? It takes more faith to believe something we cannot see, hear, touch, smell, etc. doesn't exist than to think it does? So it also takes faith to say it's extremely unlikely there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster just like it's extremely unlikely there is a holy trinity?

Without evidence to the contrary, an atheist (by denying a god) has to say that everything comes from nothing. Life comes from non-life. Order comes from chaos. Natural law comes from randomness. The effects are greater than the cause. These are all things anyone rejecting a form of theism must engage.

Now, Christianity certainly has unanswered questions. Not as many as people think, but they are there. I struggle with these, not because of a lack of faith, but because I am interested in knowledge.

Ultimately it may be that everything came from nothing, life came from non-life, order from chaos, natural law from randomness, and effects are greater than their causes. But man...you sure do have to have a lot of faith to believe that to be the case! It certainly seems much more reasonable, given the evidence, that an Intelligent Designer is responsible for these things.

[Blake]

Without evidence to the contrary, an atheist (by denying a god) has to say that everything comes from nothing. Life comes from non-life. Order comes from chaos. Natural law comes from randomness. The effects are greater than the cause. These are all things anyone rejecting a form of theism must engage.

Now, Christianity certainly has unanswered questions. Not as many as people think, but they are there. I struggle with these, not because of a lack of faith, but because I am interested in knowledge.

Ultimately it may be that everything came from nothing, life came from non-life, order from chaos, natural law from randomness, and effects are greater than their causes. But man...you sure do have to have a lot of faith to believe that to be the case! It certainly seems much more reasonable, given the evidence, that an Intelligent Designer is responsible for these things.

you know what I've learned in these arguments over the years? You can make the most perfect, most logical argument ever in the history of debating and it won't matter........people are gonna believe what they want to and you aint changing anyone's mind.

[BacktoBasics]

really? let's review:

1. basic doesn't like his kids hanging out with the church kids because they might [and I quote] "warp his daughter's mind"

2. add that to the way he cusses off anyone that even posts in a 3 thread vicinity of his greatness

Basic's daughter: "hey dad, can I go hang out with my church friends this weekend on a church retreat?"

basic: "WHAT?!?! No Fukkin way any daughter of mine is gonna go on some sheety church retreat where they will warp your mind and fark up your belief system. You neede to stay away from these no good POS friends of yours.

daughter: "well, I got some friends who are gonna do some drive by shootings this weekend.....can I go with them?"

basic: "hmmmm.......it's dangerous and illegal, but gosh, it sure is better than you hanging out with those bible thumpers that will mess you up for the rest of your life....."
So basically you're incapable of making a rational thought about a simple concern. You'd prefer to turn into something its clearly not because you're a pointless worthless boring piece of shit who's only capable of looking at something in his own slanted way.

You're doing what weakminded idiotic god warriors do when they're unable to rationally approach something they stand so strongly behind.....turn it into something its not.

Never once have I suggested that I wouldn't give the retreat the benefit of the doubt. I ALREADY LET HER FUCKING SPEND TIME WITH THESE PEOPLE. You obviously didn't read the entire thread.

Go. Fuck. Your. Self.

[baseline bum]

Without evidence to the contrary, an atheist (by denying a god) has to say that everything comes from nothing. Life comes from non-life. Order comes from chaos. Natural law comes from randomness. The effects are greater than the cause. These are all things anyone rejecting a form of theism must engage.

Now, Christianity certainly has unanswered questions. Not as many as people think, but they are there. I struggle with these, not because of a lack of faith, but because I am interested in knowledge.

Ultimately it may be that everything came from nothing, life came from non-life, order from chaos, natural law from randomness, and effects are greater than their causes. But man...you sure do have to have a lot of faith to believe that to be the case! It certainly seems much more reasonable, given the evidence, that an Intelligent Designer is responsible for these things.

Order can come from chaos when there is energy powering it. As far as the idea of something coming from nothing, there is no logical time before the big bang, as any information from what we would call before it would have been destroyed by the gravity at the singularity this universe came from. Information has to have some physical manifestation, and a black hole destroys any kind of bond at the atomic level so there can be no surviving evidence of anything. Hence, the big bang is called the beginning of the universe since there is no possible way to extract any information that could have preceded it in any concept of time. It's hilarious that people want to equate believing in a 2000 year-old unchanging document with a field dominated by skepticism that does change when inconsistencies are found.

[peewee's lovechild]

daughter: "well, I got some friends who are gonna do some drive by shootings this weekend.....can I go with them?"

basic: "hmmmm.......it's dangerous and illegal, but gosh, it sure is better than you hanging out with those bible thumpers that will mess you up for the rest of your life....."

I need to correct myself.

This is the retarded post of the day.

[BacktoBasics]

I need to correct myself.

This is the retarded post of the day.The funniest part in that post is that there are thousands of reformed gang members but I've never seen a reformed god warrior.

[peewee's lovechild]

Without evidence to the contrary, an atheist (by denying a god) has to say that everything comes from nothing. Life comes from non-life. Order comes from chaos. Natural law comes from randomness. The effects are greater than the cause. These are all things anyone rejecting a form of theism must engage.

Now, Christianity certainly has unanswered questions. Not as many as people think, but they are there. I struggle with these, not because of a lack of faith, but because I am interested in knowledge.

Ultimately it may be that everything came from nothing, life came from non-life, order from chaos, natural law from randomness, and effects are greater than their causes. But man...you sure do have to have a lot of faith to believe that to be the case! It certainly seems much more reasonable, given the evidence, that an Intelligent Designer is responsible for these things.

How do you propse that "god" created life?

Is it not by making order out of chaos?

There's all sorts of novas, super novas, and explosions going on in the Universe as we speak. That is chaos. And, if we are to believe in "god", is he not the one creating, or letting these explosions happen?

And, there is absolutely no evidence of an Intelligent Designer. That's just a bunch of crap.

As for you "life from non-life" comment . . . where did this "god" come from?

The bible says that there was nothing before him. So, didn't "god" come from non-life?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The funniest part in that post is that there are thousands of reformed gang members but I've never seen a reformed god warrior.

Wouldn't the people who leave cults count?

[BacktoBasics]

Wouldn't the people who leave cults count?touche

[JoeChalupa]

All I know is that when my children were born I got down and thanked God for the beauty of life. Carry on.

[peewee's lovechild]

All I know is that when my children were born I got down and thanked God for the beauty of life. Carry on.

When my child was born, I was glad that we evolved the way we have.

It's a testament to our species' strenght and adaptability.

[BacktoBasics]

All I know is that when my children were born I got down and thanked God for the beauty of life. Carry on.
I hate to say it pal but recently your posts are sounding more and more like naive Angel Luv posts. I've known you to be more well rounded than that.

[ashbeeigh]

I just don't understand why this has to be about your beliefs. Shouldn't this be about your daughter finding out about her own beliefs?

[BacktoBasics]

I just don't understand why this has to be about your beliefs. Shouldn't this be about your daughter finding out about her own beliefs?Yes. However if they go and fill her head with half truths and lies thats not exactly a fair level playing field.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

God is real.


Trust the Chopper. I wouldn't lie to any of you.






For those of you seeking some proof...there you go.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Yes. However if they go and fill her head with half truths and lies thats not exactly a fair level playing field.

Yeah, leave that shit to the public education system..

[BacktoBasics]

Yeah, leave that shit to the public education system..
QFT

[Blake]

So basically you're incapable of making a rational thought about a simple concern. You'd prefer to turn into something its clearly not because you're a pointless worthless boring piece of shit who's only capable of looking at something in his own slanted way.

You're doing what weakminded idiotic god warriors do when they're unable to rationally approach something they stand so strongly behind.....turn it into something its not.

Never once have I suggested that I wouldn't give the retreat the benefit of the doubt. I ALREADY LET HER FUCKING SPEND TIME WITH THESE PEOPLE. You obviously didn't read the entire thread.

Go. Fuck. Your. Self.

The fact that you ended up letting her go is besides the point.

The point is that you are an ignorant jerk that is so concerned about someone else brainwashing your own child that you can't even see that you yourself are trying to control your daughter's belief system......

....which appears to be "if they don't agree with you, call them names. This makes you look smarter than they are."

you win dad of the year award. congrats, big man.

[Blake]

When my child was born, I was glad that we evolved the way we have.

It's a testament to our species' strenght and adaptability.

shocker....never would have guessed what side of the fence you are on....

if at first you dont agree, just call them retarded right off the bat.

[phyzik]

"All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."
- Baron d'Holbach, 1772

all I know is that unproven religious beliefs deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven beliefs (including atheism). The difference is, most (not all) religious people are unwilling or unable to accept that, where as atheist live by it.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The point is that you are an ignorant jerk that is so concerned about someone else brainwashing your own child that you can't even see that you yourself are trying to control your daughter's belief system......




Gee, that only includes any parent who's forced their child to go to church/bible study/catechism/etc.

[Blake]

I just don't understand why this has to be about your beliefs. Shouldn't this be about your daughter finding out about her own beliefs?

no....this is about "if anyone is going to brainwash his kid, it's gonna be him......not some evil doing church god warriors"

[ashbeeigh]

Yes. However if they go and fill her head with half truths and lies thats not exactly a fair level playing field.

B2B, you are her stepfather. You are probably more of a father to her then her own father is (from what I have read). If she's anything like I was, she probably took your thoughts into consideration, but you need to let her see the other side of things too. I'm not going to argue about your atheistic views, but if you want to try to tell her your truth afterwards that's fine, but she's an individual and she should be able to decide after she sees both sides of things. How long as she seen your side of things? A pretty long time right? What will a weekend do to her?

[BacktoBasics]

The fact that you ended up letting her go is besides the point.

The point is that you are an ignorant jerk that is so concerned about someone else brainwashing your own child that you can't even see that you yourself are trying to control your daughter's belief system......

....which appears to be "if they don't agree with you, call them names. This makes you look smarter than they are."

you win dad of the year award. congrats, big man.
I'm not brainwashing her by giving her both sides of the story. I'm brainwashing her by letting her go and hang out with people who's beliefs I don't agree with. I've told her that I feel one way and some feel the same way and others don't. I don't call them names I call you names and I call the extremist names when she's not around. I don't need to say anything when she sees tards flopping around on the ground because god has entered their body she already knows how absurd that is.

You know nothing about what you're talking about because you haven't paid attention to anything I've said. You assume that because I don't agree with something or that I don't see things your way that I'm blasting them to her. I'm only blasting you for turning a perfectly legitimate concern into me being an advocate for her rolling with the wrong crowd in lue of bible beating freaks. I said in the beginning that I don't agree with fire and brimstone and that I don't agree with them telling her that she's going to hell if she doesn't worship god and live by his name. Not many parents would.

If thats bad parenting then you're an idiot.

You have no basis in your points you have simply ranted on about how you don't like with no shread of reality to go off of. Congradulations for accomplishing nothing.

[Blake]

Gee, that only includes any parent who's forced their child to go to church/bible study/catechism/etc.

don't disagree with ya there.

[BacktoBasics]

B2B, you are her stepfather. You are probably more of a father to her then her own father is (from what I have read). If she's anything like I was, she probably took your thoughts into consideration, but you need to let her see the other side of things too. I'm not going to argue about your atheistic views, but if you want to try to tell her your truth afterwards that's fine, but she's an individual and she should be able to decide after she sees both sides of things. How long as she seen your side of things? A pretty long time right? What will a weekend do to her?She may or may not believe in god. She's undecided. I don't care what she ultimately decides. I'm going to let her go. The only thing I didn't want was for her to feel that she was a bad person or that she would be destined to live a life of misery if she didn't believe in god. I think thats reasonable. Blake doesn't get it.

[JoeChalupa]

I hate to say it pal but recently your posts are sounding more and more like naive Angel Luv posts. I've known you to be more well rounded than that.

I'm not sorry about it so why should you be? Being well rounded, to me at least, is the ability to believe in what I believe and understanding that there are millions who don't believe as I do and accepting that with an open mind. I totally understand the anti-religion sentiment many have and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't see how that makes me less well rounded and if you'd see me in person you'd see that I am very well rounded.

[BacktoBasics]

no....this is about "if anyone is going to brainwash his kid, it's gonna be him......not some evil doing church god warriors"
You completely fail to pay attention. Typical thumper attitude. Glad you've read me enough to make such a well thought opinion. You are so far off on what you think you know about me its not ever funny.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not sorry about it so why should you be? Being well rounded, to me at least, is the ability to believe in what I believe and understanding that there are millions who don't believe as I do and accepting that with an open mind. I totally understand the anti-religion sentiment many have and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't see how that makes me less well rounded and if you'd see me in person you'd see that I am very well rounded.It doesn't. I meant your simpleton style of posting that I've read recently. Just seems out of character.

I don't need to see you in person to know you're well rounded. Its why I commented.

[JoeChalupa]

It doesn't. I meant your simpleton style of posting that I've read recently. Just seems out of character.

I don't need to see you in person to know you're well rounded. Its why I commented.

True. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve and I don't really put much thought into my "style" of posting. I just post what I'm thinking but in more simple terms than having to post a long winded rant...you know what I mean.

[BacktoBasics]

True. I don't wear my religion on my sleeve and I don't really put much thought into my "style" of posting. I just post what I'm thinking but in more simple terms than having to post a long winded rant...you know what I mean.
10-4 Captain

[JoeChalupa]

10-4 Captain

Roger that.

[marini martini]

As long as this retreat isn't run by Pentecostals. I wouldn't worry too much about her witnessing kids flopping around on the floor, because God entered there bodies, nor any rattlesnake kissers, for that matter. Just be sure you send her with a 12 pack of Sprite, for protection, just in case:toast

[BacktoBasics]

As long as this retreat isn't run by Pentecostals. I wouldn't worry too much about her witnessing kids flopping around on the floor, because God entered there bodies, nor any rattlesnake kissers, for that matter. Just be sure you send her with a 12 pack of Sprite, for protection, just in case:toast
:lmao

[ploto]

Just to let you know there are many different types of religious people and experiences within these communities. Sure, some are aggressive, but others are not. I am a person of faith but I do not attend nor want to be a part of any fire and brimstone. I do not believe that God is sitting there waiting to see me do something wrong so he can get me. That is the exact opposite of my belief system. I also was raised to believe that God helps those who help themselves. I believe strongly in free will and personal responsibility. I do not explain everything away by "blaming" God and I surely do not blindly follow any HUMAN. There is an old episode of Designing Women where Charlene is upset because her minister does not believe that women should be ministers. When she goes to talk to him about it, he says to her-- "You can not question the wisdom of God." To which she replies, "It is not His wisdom I am questioning. It is YOURS."

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

"All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."
- Baron d'Holbach, 1772




"I'd argue that d'Holbach never had a conversation with an infant to prove that theory correct."

- Chopper Jones, 2008

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I don't think there's anything to worry about. Most of these fundamentalists are religiously sheltered their whole lives, and never know about the other possibilites like athiesm and agnosticism until they're older (and by then there beliefs have already been hammered into their head that they can't see things any other way and call these beliefs "facts").

just my .2

[Bigzax]

"Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me."




embrace the persecution Angel...it means you're doing something right...:wakeup

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't think there's anything to worry about. Most of these fundamentalists are religiously sheltered their whole lives, and never know about the other possibilites like athiesm and agnosticism until they're older (and by then there beliefs have already been hammered into their head that they can't see things any other way and call these beliefs "facts").

just my .2


It's .02, gotdammit! Or do you want to just give it your 20 cents?


Now why don't you just make like a tree, and get outta here!!

[jack sommerset]

She is 12. You don't feel comfortable with her going its a big fat NO. Take her to High School Musical this weekend. 6 years down the road she can make decsions for herself. Ur opinion will mean shit then.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

It's .02, gotdammit! Or do you want to just give it your 20 cents?


Now why don't you just make like a tree, and get outta here!!

hey, douchebag, it's called inflation.

[peewee's lovechild]

shocker....never would have guessed what side of the fence you are on....

if at first you dont agree, just call them retarded right off the bat.

I never called Chalupa a retard.

You however, I called out as a retard for your retarded analogy.

[peewee's lovechild]

"I'd argue that d'Holbach never had a conversation with an infant to prove that theory correct."

- Chopper Jones, 2008

Tabula Rasa . . . all infants are born with it.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Tabula Rasa . . . all infants are born with it.

theory.

[peewee's lovechild]

theory.

So is god.

[Blake]

I never called Chalupa a retard.

You however, I called out as a retard for your retarded analogy.

I never said Chalupa but that's a fine job of making an assumption when nobody asked you to make one. You need to listen to the short bus driver a little more when he tells you to sit down and shut up.

[I Love Me Some Me]

So is god.

So believing in theories doesn't make someone crazy, does it?

[BacktoBasics]

I never said Chalupa but that's a fine job of making an assumption when nobody asked you to make one. You need to listen to the short bus driver a little more when he tells you to sit down and shut up.

If anyone needs to listen its you. You went off without even bothering to read the entire thread. Then peppered your posts with idiotic analogies.

[Blake]

You completely fail to pay attention. Typical thumper attitude. Glad you've read me enough to make such a well thought opinion. You are so far off on what you think you know about me its not ever funny.

I aint a thumper and so far, I dont care to know you. I only know what you posted so far.

Fact is, in an effort to not offend any Catholics here, I will use the word 'dislike' when I say I dislike the Catholic religion.

Yet when my step daughter came along and asked if she could go on something called an acts retreat with a catholic friend a while back, I didn't like it, but we let her go without even blinking. If you do your job as a parent in teaching core values, then you should have no problem trusting your kid when he/she walks out that front door. Trust me, dude.....the tighter the grip you try to put on that kid, the more she tries to fight that grip. If she aint breaking the law, sometimes you just gotta let go and let her make her own way.

[JoeChalupa]

I've been called much worse things than "retarded" and I'm Catholic and I'm well aware of the dislike by many of the Catholic Church and that doesn't bother me either. I never introduce myself as "Hi, I'm Jose and I'm Catholic." But I won't deny it if asked, ever.
I have enough confidence in my kids not to worry about something as trivial as a retreat. But I do understand why some would have a concern.

[JoeChalupa]

I aint a thumper and so far, I dont care to know you. I only know what you posted so far.

Fact is, in an effort to not offend any Catholics here, I will use the word 'dislike' when I say I dislike the Catholic religion.

Yet when my step daughter came along and asked if she could go on something called an acts retreat with a catholic friend a while back, I didn't like it, but we let her go without even blinking. If you do your job as a parent in teaching core values, then you should have no problem trusting your kid when he/she walks out that front door. Trust me, dude.....the tighter the grip you try to put on that kid, the more she tries to fight that grip. If she aint breaking the law, sometimes you just gotta let go and let her make her own way.

I concur.

[Blake]

If anyone needs to listen its you. You went off without even bothering to read the entire thread. Then peppered your posts with idiotic analogies.

beh. fine. I read the entire thread and it was 8 pages of the same thing mixed in with some Bible burning humor. I fail to see where your opinion changed from page 1 to page 8.
Sure, you're letting her go but you still would rather handcuff her to the dining room table than let her attend the horrors of a church camp.

[peewee's lovechild]

All I know is that when my children were born I got down and thanked God for the beauty of life. Carry on.


When my child was born, I was glad that we evolved the way we have.

It's a testament to our species' strenght and adaptability.


shocker....never would have guessed what side of the fence you are on....

if at first you dont agree, just call them retarded right off the bat.


I never called Chalupa a retard.

You however, I called out as a retard for your retarded analogy.


I never said Chalupa but that's a fine job of making an assumption when nobody asked you to make one. You need to listen to the short bus driver a little more when he tells you to sit down and shut up.

That was how the conversation went.

Quit making an ass out of yourself.

[peewee's lovechild]

So believing in theories doesn't make someone crazy, does it?

Did I say that?

God damn, you're dumber than Blake.

Someone posted a quote that said that babies are born with no idea who god is, and Chopper posted his own quote that said something to the effect that "show me where this guy had conversations with infants."

I then posted that infants are born with Tabula Rasa, and then you posted that it was a theory and then I posted that god is a theory . . . . . where was anything posted about believing in theories makes someone crazy.

Look, I know what you're doing.

You're trying to defend whatever you believe in and trying to make me look like a dick about it.

But, it's not working.

[peewee's lovechild]

I've been called much worse things than "retarded" and I'm Catholic and I'm well aware of the dislike by many of the Catholic Church and that doesn't bother me either. I never introduce myself as "Hi, I'm Jose and I'm Catholic." But I won't deny it if asked, ever.
I have enough confidence in my kids not to worry about something as trivial as a retreat. But I do understand why some would have a concern.

No one called you "retarded" JC.

[Blake]

That was how the conversation went.

Quit making an ass out of yourself.

ehhh.....

dude, if you read c a r e f u l l y, instead of posting the mixed up quotes....it's pretty clear that I knew you were referring to me when you said retard......especially when you called my posts retarded not once but twice.

Now let it go before you get hurt. It's not too late.

[Blake]

No one called you "retarded" JC.

bingo.

sheez.

[Blake]

.....and trying to make me look like a dick about it.



Id say youre doing a good enough job on your own without his help

[marini martini]

Did I say that?

God damn, you're dumber than Blake.

Someone posted a quote that said that babies are born with no idea who god is, and Chopper posted his own quote that said something to the effect that "show me where this guy had conversations with infants."

I then posted that infants are born with Tabula Rasa, and then you posted that it was a theory and then I posted that god is a theory . . . . . where was anything posted about believing in theories makes someone crazy.

Look, I know what you're doing.

You're trying to defend whatever you believe in and trying to make me look like a dick about it.[/SIZE]

But, it's not working.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Yes it is!!!!

I love you PeeWee, but.............

[peewee's lovechild]

ehhh.....

dude, if you read c a r e f u l l y, instead of posting the mixed up quotes....it's pretty clear that I knew you were referring to me when you said retard......especially when you called my posts retarded not once but twice.

Now let it go before you get hurt. It's not too late.

Retard, go back and see that you quoted my retort to JC's post when you made your "shocker" statement.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Did I say that?

God damn, you're dumber than Blake.

Someone posted a quote that said that babies are born with no idea who god is, and Chopper posted his own quote that said something to the effect that "show me where this guy had conversations with infants."

I then posted that infants are born with Tabula Rasa, and then you posted that it was a theory and then I posted that god is a theory . . . . . where was anything posted about believing in theories makes someone crazy.

Look, I know what you're doing.

You're trying to defend whatever you believe in and trying to make me look like a dick about it.

But, it's not working.

Try again...I simply asked a question. Does believing in theories make someone crazy? I didn't acuse you of thinking anyone is crazy, and I never said you stated that. I just asked.


The point I'm making is that everyone, whether they want to admit it or not, believes in something that does not have physical evidence to exist. Why is it then, when someone believes in a God that does not have physical evidence of existence, it's a lack of common sense or knowledge that guides them to that belief?

[peewee's lovechild]

bingo.

sheez.


My original post in the previous page:



I never called Chalupa a retard.

You however, I called out as a retard for your retarded analogy.

[peewee's lovechild]

Try again...I simply asked a question. Does believing in theories make someone crazy? I didn't acuse you of thinking anyone is crazy, and I never said you stated that. I just asked.


The point I'm making is that everyone, whether they want to admit it or not, believes in something that does not have physical evidence to exist. Why is it then, when someone believes in a God that does not have physical evidence of existence, it's a lack of common sense or knowledge that guides them to that belief?

Fucking aye, all I said was that babies are born with Tabula Rasa.

If you want to get into a theological discussion, then by all means, do it.

But, don't bring it in when all I'm saying is that babies are born with no previous knowledge whatsoever.

Do you know what Tabula Rasa is??
Do you understand that concept?

However, you want a theological discussion . . . let's do it.

Start a new thread or join in the thread in the Politics Forum where Angel_Luv said that Obama might indeed be the Anti-Christ.

[JoeChalupa]

No one called you "retarded" JC.

I know and I didn't mean to make it read that way. :tu

[I Love Me Some Me]

Fucking aye, all I said was that babies are born with Tabula Rasa.

If you want to get into a theological discussion, then by all means, do it.

But, don't bring it in when all I'm saying is that babies are born with no previous knowledge whatsoever.

Do you know what Tabula Rasa is??
Do you understand that concept?

However, you want a theological discussion . . . let's do it.

Start a new thread or join in the thread in the Politics Forum where Angel_Luv said that Obama might indeed be the Anti-Christ.

Tabula Rasa...clean slate, or blank slate. Babies are born with no knowledge.

But this is a theory that has no evidence to support it, and no means by which to prove it's legitimacy. BUT....people believe it, and are not ridiculed for doing so.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't agree that babies are born with no knowledge.

[BacktoBasics]

beh. fine. I read the entire thread and it was 8 pages of the same thing mixed in with some Bible burning humor. I fail to see where your opinion changed from page 1 to page 8.
Sure, you're letting her go but you still would rather handcuff her to the dining room table than let her attend the horrors of a church camp.This is where you're all wrong and completely fail at comprehending the thread. I don't know if there are horrors at church camp or not thats why I asked. I don't have any problem with her going what so ever I was just concerned if this was the point where the church tries to take a hold of these kids. Parents are gone and kids are isolated....sounds like a prime time to push their beliefs.

If its just a normal fun church social outing then I'm fine becaue I've been fine with this church in the past but if its going to be all kinds of hellfire and death to non believers then no thank you.

This is why I asked because I haven't done church retreats. You turned this thread into me being a bigot to all church and god worshippers and I'm only a bigot to the extremists.

[I Love Me Some Me]

This is where you're all wrong and completely fail at comprehending the thread. I don't know if there are horrors at church camp or not thats why I asked. I don't have any problem with her going what so ever I was just concerned if this was the point where the church tries to take a hold of these kids. Parents are gone and kids are isolated....sounds like a prime time to push their beliefs.

If its just a normal fun church social outing then I'm fine becaue I've been fine with this church in the past but if its going to be all kinds of hellfire and death to non believers then no thank you.

This is why I asked because I haven't done church retreats. You turned this thread into me being a bigot to all church and god worshippers and I'm only a bigot to the extremists.

To answer you original concern with this thread...the things you see and hear about in movies like Jesus Camp, and other anecdotes about crazy Christian camps are not the norm. In fact, any Christian church that makes the news for any reason is usually not the norm.

Your daughter will have fun, and will socialize with decent kids. She will be preached to, and she will probably be invited to "get saved." She will not be pressured to do so, if the people doing it are doing it right. If this were some kooky church, you seem intuitive enough to have picked up on that already, and you seem to be enough of an influence on your kids that she would have probably picked up on it also, and wouldn't want to go anyway.

[mrsmaalox]

I don't agree that babies are born with no knowledge.

I don't know....conscience for sure and instinct, but actual knowledge?

[BacktoBasics]

To answer you original concern with this thread...the things you see and hear about in movies like Jesus Camp, and other anecdotes about crazy Christian camps are not the norm. In fact, any Christian church that makes the news for any reason is usually not the norm.

Your daughter will have fun, and will socialize with decent kids. She will be preached to, and she will probably be invited to "get saved." She will not be pressured to do so, if the people doing it are doing it right. If this were some kooky church, you seem intuitive enough to have picked up on that already, and you seem to be enough of an influence on your kids that she would have probably picked up on it also, and wouldn't want to go anyway.If thats true I will talk to her about "getting saved".

[peewee's lovechild]

Tabula Rasa...clean slate, or blank slate. Babies are born with no knowledge.

But this is a theory that has no evidence to support it, and no means by which to prove it's legitimacy. BUT....people believe it, and are not ridiculed for doing so.

Aaaaaand?

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't agree that babies are born with no knowledge.

They are born with instinct.

What kind of knowledge do you think they are born with?

[I Love Me Some Me]

If thats true I will talk to her about "getting saved".

Absolutely you should.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Aaaaaand?

http://andthen.ytmnd.com/

[peewee's lovechild]

If thats true I will talk to her about "getting saved".

They will hit her with that, and many times they will be pressured into getting "saved".

I have first hand experience with this.

They're quite subtle at this.

But, they'll come at an angle like "don't you love all that god has given you" . . . "don't you want to thank him for everything in your life" . . . "do you know what happens to you if you don't get saved (hell)?" . . .

Stuff like that.
And, they'll say it with a nice, warm, gentle smile on thier face.

Those young kids who have been saved will be urging her and all that.

Of course, this particular camp might not function that way. But, I've been to a few and it pretty much goes that way.

[BacktoBasics]

:lmao
http://andthen.ytmnd.com/

[peewee's lovechild]

http://andthen.ytmnd.com/

Yea.

[BacktoBasics]

They are born with instinct.

What kind of knowledge do you think they are born with?I think some will argue that instinct is knowledge. I think they're born with no knowledge though.

[JoeChalupa]

They are born with instinct.

What kind of knowledge do you think they are born with?

Baby knowledge. And to me instinct IS knowledge but it doesn't really matter because what I believe you don't so and that is fine. I respect that for I have no proof and neither do you but you do believe it to be true. No?

[Blake]

This is why I asked because I haven't done church retreats. You turned this thread into me being a bigot to all church and god worshippers and I'm only a bigot to the extremists.

huh?

I really don't know why you are asking anyone anything around here about this camp. Last I checked, pretty much all camps are different in some form or another, but to answer your original question from page 1 which still appears to not have been answered:

"yes, the church goers will spend the time explaining their beliefs to your kid"

To what extent? Who the hell around here is gonna know that? As long as they don't ask her to bring two dozen boxes of sleeping pills and some white Nikes in order to catch the next spaceship that flies by, I think she'll be just fine.

But since you obviously still don't get it, what you need to do is find a kid that's been to one of these things, pull him/her aside and drill them about what goes on at the camp and how hard they get hit over the head with the Bible.

[mrsmaalox]

They will hit her with that, and many times they will be pressured into getting "saved".

I have first hand experience with this.

They're quite subtle at this.

But, they'll come at an angle like "don't you love all that god has given you" . . . "don't you want to thank him for everything in your life" . . . "do you know what happens to you if you don't get saved (hell)?" . . .

Stuff like that.
And, they'll say it with a nice, warm, gentle smile on thier face.

Those young kids who have been saved will be urging her and all that.

Of course, this particular camp might not function that way. But, I've been to a few and it pretty much goes that way.

See that's why I asked if he knows the kids she's going with. Those kids have been raised in that church and she's already gone to some functions with them. I think if they were the extreme type, they would have tried to influnce her already. Just ask her.

[BacktoBasics]

huh?

I really don't know why you are asking anyone anything around here about this camp. Last I checked, pretty much all camps are different in some form or another, but to answer your original question from page 1 which still appears to not have been answered:

"yes, the church goers will spend the time explaining their beliefs to your kid"

To what extent? Who the hell around here is gonna know that? As long as they don't ask her to bring two dozen boxes of sleeping pills and some white Nikes in order to catch the next spaceship that flies by, I think she'll be just fine.

But since you obviously still don't get it, what you need to do is find a kid that's been to one of these things, pull him/her aside and drill them about what goes on at the camp and how hard they get hit over the head with the Bible.

So you're recommending that I kidnap a child for questioning?

[marini martini]

B2B, I hope this settles your fears. My youngest daughter went to an excellent Christian Sports camp,when she was 15 & 16. There were many "inner city" youth that had never experienced the out doors before. They claimed my daughter as "their favorite little white girl", because she knew all the words to the rap music. At any rate, she did answer the alter call, and turned her life over to God.

Fast forward to now......She smokes, drinks, cusses, loves metal, has been pierced, and tatted, and has a baby out of wedlock. She's also going to school while working, not taking a penny from the govt., and is a really a pretty well rounded young person. So just know your daughter, will choose her own path, no matter what you do or say. Just don't try to keep her from having fun, as long as it doesn't hurt her or any one else.

Prozac & prayer, works for me:toast

[JoeChalupa]

B2B, I hope this settles your fears. My youngest daughter went to an excellent Christian Sports camp,when she was 15 & 16. There were many "inner city" youth that had never experienced the out doors before. They claimed my daughter as "their favorite little white girl", because she knew all the words to the rap music. At any rate, she did answer the alter call, and turned her life over to God.

Fast forward to now......She smokes, drinks, cusses, loves metal, has been pierced, and tatted, and has a baby out of wedlock. She's also going to school while working, not taking a penny from the govt., and is a really a pretty well rounded young person. So just know your daughter, will choose her own path, no matter what you do or say. Just don't try to keep her from having fun, as long as it doesn't hurt her or any one else.

Prozac & prayer, works for me:toast

Great post. :tu Kids WILL choose their own path but I do believe, there's that believe word again, that parents have a huge influence on them. I know mine did.

Although there is nothing wrong with getting govt help to go to college but that is a topic for the political forum.

[Blake]

So you're recommending that I kidnap a child for questioning?

think of it as homeland security

[ashbeeigh]

marini's daughter and I have very cool non fire and brimstone Christian mutual friends as well, B2B.

[Bigzax]

She smokes, drinks, cusses, loves metal, has been pierced, and tatted, and has a baby out of wedlock.


my kinda sancha! PM me the pix, k thx! :toast

[marini martini]

marini's daughter and I have very cool non fire and brimstone Christian mutual friends as well, B2B.

Yep, and she still loves the Lord, and I'm learning to trust He will keep her & my grandson safe, more & more everyday!:toast


my kinda sancha! PM me the pix, k thx! :toast

She quit drinking & smoking when she got pg., and has remained clean since. So nay nay putay!!!:nope No pm pix fo yo, fo sho!!!:lmao

[peewee's lovechild]

If instinct is knowledge, then most members of the animal kingdom have knowledge as well.