Game blog: Preseason Game 7: Spurs vs. Heat

[Obstructed_View]

All tied up with five minutes to go. Timeout Spurs. We'll see who Pop puts out for the final stretch.

[Ice009]

Why has Farmer taken only one shot. This is great though that he's showing an all around game and proving he can be on the court not only shooting the ball.

No court time for Hairston and Tolliver. What does this mean?

[completely deck]

How much the score changed while they where on the floor...


I think it's how many points the team scores compared to the opponent while a player is in the game.

Thanks, just looked it up :)

[traitoravery]

All tied up with five minutes to go. Timeout Spurs. We'll see who Pop puts out for the final stretch.
I have the Heat up four with 5 mins to go...

[Manufan909]

All tied up with five minutes to go. Timeout Spurs. We'll see who Pop puts out for the final stretch.

Fuck, it is my internet. I'm still on 5:06 86-82.

[Obstructed_View]

Why has Farmer taken only one shot. This is great though that he's showing an all around game and proving he can be on the court not only shooting the ball.

No court time for Hairston and Tolliver. What does this mean?

He probably hasn't been open. If he's passing up a low-percentage shot to give a teammate a better shot then it actually helps him. Nobody in the organization thinks he can't hit shots. His plus minus numbers are pretty impressive.

[Ice009]

Give Farmer the green light now with the game on the line.

[Obstructed_View]

Farmer just missed a three. He's running the point.

[024]

just looked at the box score, hairston and tolliver not playing at all? kind of strange.

[Joe Schmoogins]

It looks to me as if the last spot is Farmer's to lose.

[tp2021]

Give Farmer the green light now with the game on the line.


Farmer just missed a three.

:lol

[Manufan909]

Yay Bonner!!!

[Obstructed_View]

Farmer just scored again. He makes Bonner good. It's possible he's going to make the team just for that.

[Spurs Brazil]

4:19 SA - M. Bonner makes shot
4:38 SA - M. Bonner offensive rebound

Heat up 2

[Obstructed_View]

Farmer's had the green light. That three he missed was within the offense.

[Spurs Brazil]

2:59 MIA - S. Marion misses a running dunk

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is smokin.

[Manufan909]

How the hell did Marion miss a dunk?

[timtonymanu]

2:59 MIA - S. Marion misses a running dunk

lol

[Obstructed_View]

Farmer missed another one.

[Fermixalot]

Farmer with a layup. 88-86 3:15 left. Let's see where this goes. I'm not sure what to make of Pop's rotation so far. Farmer is being given a chance, maybe his last? He's looked good.

[ace3g]

Flint Michigan Tropics .... I mean OKC Thunder playing the Lakers now on ESPN

[Manufan909]

Bonner and Desmon combine for +25!!!

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner, Mason and Parker have all played better when Farmer's on the court. I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but I think this kid has to make an NBA roster this year.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Matt Bonner is having an excellent game! That's encouraging...

(that's also why I voted no on the waive bonner now petition)

[Obstructed_View]

I wonder what "whoever contributes" means when only one guy actually gets into the game?

[Ice009]

Bonner doing it.

I'd like to see Bonner take a few shots with the game on the line.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bonner, Mason and Parker have all played better when Farmer's on the court. I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but I think this kid has to make an NBA roster this year.


If he doesn't, I'm going to kick Tolliver's ass for wasting a spot

[Manufan909]

Come on OKC!!! I can't believe I'm watching a Lakers game.

[Obstructed_View]

No love from the zebras tonight.

[Spurs Brazil]

DAMN Mason bad pass

[tp2021]

Farmer's had the green light. That three he missed was within the offense.

I know, I just thought it was funny that those two comments were right after each other.

[Obstructed_View]

Ball game.

[Obstructed_View]

I spoke too soon!

Roger Mason with a three. One point game with 24.1 to go.

[Fermixalot]

Mason for 3!

[Joe Schmoogins]

Mason for 3!!!

[timtonymanu]

Mason for three!

[Ice009]

Mason and Bonner fucked up here.

[Spurs Brazil]

:24.9 SA - R. Mason makes a 24-foot three-pointer from the right wing

Heat up 1

[ace3g]

big 3 by RMJ, only down 1, 91-92

[angelbelow]

what do you guys think of farmers performance?

[Ice009]

lol I spoke too soon too. GAME ON AGAIN.

[Obstructed_View]

I know, I just thought it was funny that those two comments were right after each other.

I know. I just didn't want people thinking that Farmer was jacking up shots like he was the other night. He's got good awareness of the game situation, which you don't always get from either scorers or young guys.

[Ice009]

This is awesome. I hope we get the ball back with a shot to win the game and run a play for it.

[Obstructed_View]

Udoka puts Beasley at the line. The Spurs will have a chance to tie or win.

[Spurs Brazil]

19.7 MIA - M. Beasley misses the first free throw

[Obstructed_View]

Mason ties it with a layup. 10.5 to go.

[Fermixalot]

whoa. Mason with the tying bucket.

[Spurs Brazil]

:10.9 SA - Layup by R. Mason

TIE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timtonymanu]

Mason!

[Manufan909]

Beasley misses!!! Then Mason for the layup!!!!!!!!!!!

[Obstructed_View]

Mason went around a screen and went hard baseline for that layup.

[Spurs Brazil]

OT in the last preseason game?

[Manufan909]

Damn OV, you juked me. I thought my internet was a fucktard, and the game was done.:lmao

[Ice009]

Mason playing well in crunch time. That's what it's all about.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Mason with his clutch pants on!

[Obstructed_View]

Mason playing well might actually be the death blow for Farmer.

[Fermixalot]

Mason went around a screen and went hard baseline for that layup.

That's good to hear. The more people with the ability to take it hard to the bucket the better.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

OT in the last preseason game?

Which means MORE FARMER!!!!!

[Obstructed_View]

Mario Chalmers with the game winner.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

.....

[Fermixalot]

NO WAY!!!!

Fucking Chalmers.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Spurs lose...

[timvp]

In before "The Spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill".

[timtonymanu]

Fuck u Chalmers!

[Spurs Brazil]

Mario Chalmers with the game winner.

That's OK

Playing a OT game in the last preseason meeting wasn't necessary

[mando6599]

In before "The Spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill".

ironic, huh?

[Ice009]

THAT IS THE WORST PLAYER TO HIT THAT SHOT.

WOW. LOL. Spurs fans gotta love that.

[Spurs Brazil]

In before "The Spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill".

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Damn OV, you juked me. I thought my internet was a fucktard, and the game was done.:lmao

Sorry. When he hit that bucket to put the lead at 4 with 28 seconds left, I figured it was over, and then Mason hit the three a second later.

[traitoravery]

Fuck now we have to hear a bunch of man love for Chalmers on Sportscenter Tomm,

[Joe Schmoogins]

I bet that felt good for Chalmers... a little F.U. to the Spurs for letting him drop to the second round.

[Ice009]

lol we've got to love that. Out of all the players to hit the game winner.

[traitoravery]

Who was guarding him...?

[Obstructed_View]

I'd be more than happy with Farmer and Hairston, and I could live with Hairston and Tolliver. I'd still rather have Hill than Chalmers.

[mando6599]

I bet that felt good for Chalmers... a little F.U. to the Spurs for letting him drop to the second round.


So what, I'd bet my house he'd rather be on the Spurs and had lost that game b/c it's the playoffs that matter to this team, and Miami won't be there.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

damn, Chalmers with 80% shooting and 10 assists (!)

[completely deck]

Ouch, sore loss :(

[Ice009]

How was Farmer's D tonight?

[vy65]

Does anyone get the feeling that Farmer's gone? His being the only one (out of him, Hairston, and Tollivor) to get any playing time probably means he's cut, doesn't it? It just seems as though Pop had made up his mind already, and give Hairston/Tollivor's minutes to Farmer to show-case his stuff for another team with an open spot?

It just seems weird that in a situation where three people are fighting for two spots, only one gets any PT while two sit on the bench the entire time and watch.

[Fermixalot]

damn, Chalmers with 80% shooting and 10 assists (!)

but 4 TOs. I'm happy with Hill, he seems like Spurs material. Good D, good attitude.

[xtremesteven33]

So Hill didnt play, Hairston didnt play and TOlliver didnt play??

[ElNono]

Well, this concludes the Spurs preseason, and I have to say that I liked what the team did this year as far as bringing good talent to make the roster. Whoever makes it will be fine by me, honestly. You could argue that player A was better than player B, but in general you can't deny that all of them deserved a spot. We really were left with the best from training camp.

Now, let's start the season and as usual...
:flag:

[Manufan909]

Yep. Hope Farmer made a good enough case to have Pop choose him over Tolliver.

[Fermixalot]

Can anyone make some sense out of Pop's playing time decisions.

Farmer has already made the team and Pop's giving him his minutes?
Hariston made the team and Farmer is being showcased?
Something unknown to us that happened in practice?

The halftime interview did seem to suggest that Pop and the staff had come to decision.

[Obstructed_View]

Does anyone get the feeling that Farmer's gone? His being the only one (out of him, Hairston, and Tollivor) to get any playing time probably means he's cut, doesn't it? It just seems as though Pop had made up his mind already, and give Hairston/Tollivor's minutes to Farmer to show-case his stuff for another team with an open spot?

It just seems weird that in a situation where three people are fighting for two spots, only one gets any PT while two sit on the bench the entire time and watch.

Yeah, I have that feeling too, but Farmer has played some good basketball. I didn't know who he was when he showed up. All I know now is that the other two better fucking bring all their effort to make me forget about him.

[Obstructed_View]

Can anyone make some sense out of Pop's playing time decisions.

Farmer has already made the team and Pop's giving him his minutes?
Hariston made the team and Farmer is being showcased?
Something unknown to us that happened in practice?

The halftime interview did seem to suggest that Pop and the staff had come to decision.

Pop didn't put Farmer in until 30 seconds to go in the second quarter. The halftime interview happened earlier today so it didn't fit with the reality of the game. We all just assumed that they'd all get playing time to determine who was on the team. It's probably that Farmer's getting cut. I can't imagine cutting a guy and not giving him a chance to play in the final game. I hope he gets a chance to come back and drop 30 on the Spurs this year.

[Ice009]

So you think Farmer's gone Obstructed_View?

[beck210]

i was just at the game, and Toliver wasnt even on the bench, did he get cut already or what?

[vy65]

Yeah, I have that feeling too, but Farmer has played some good basketball. I didn't know who he was when he showed up. All I know now is that the other two better fucking bring all their effort to make me forget about him.

From the stats I've seen/ESPN gamecast, I think you're right about Farmer being a good team player. That, in addition to Pop's comments at halftime lead, I think, to two scenarios.

Another thing to think about is: how does Bonner's play affect the A-To situation? Bonner, from the looks of it, had himself a relatively decent outing. He's had a couple this offseason. Does his "stepping it up," as Tim would put it, mean that Tolliver is redundant? Might Tolliver's minutes have gone to Matty, who then showed why we don't need another shooting big man?

[Ice009]

Pop didn't put Farmer in until 30 seconds to go in the second quarter. The halftime interview happened earlier today so it didn't fit with the reality of the game. We all just assumed that they'd all get playing time to determine who was on the team. It's probably that Farmer's getting cut. I can't imagine cutting a guy and not giving him a chance to play in the final game. I hope he gets a chance to come back and drop 30 on the Spurs this year.

Why do you want him to drop 30 on us?

Do you think he should have made the team after tonight's game?

[ElNono]

i was just at the game, and Toliver wasnt even on the bench, did he get cut already or what?

Interesting... :hat
CIA Pop at work?

[Solid D]

Who was guarding him...?

According to the radio broadcast, Mason was screened by Beasley and Bonner switched to Chalmers on a straight-on 3.

[Fermixalot]

Pop didn't put Farmer in until 30 seconds to go in the second quarter. The halftime interview happened earlier today so it didn't fit with the reality of the game. We all just assumed that they'd all get playing time to determine who was on the team. It's probably that Farmer's getting cut. I can't imagine cutting a guy and not giving him a chance to play in the final game. I hope he gets a chance to come back and drop 30 on the Spurs this year.

You're probably right, it would be unfair after all these guys have given to not give him a chance in the final game. That sucks though, Farmer was pretty decent. But Hariston is by no means settling, so I'm ok with the decision.

[Obstructed_View]

So you think Farmer's gone Obstructed_View?

Yeah, I think he probably is. Bonner's good play may actually doom Tolliver. We can always hope.


Why do you want him to drop 30 on us?

Do you think he should have made the team after tonight's game?
I thought he should have made the team after the Detroit game, but if he's gone then I hope he makes a team and does well. If he gets on with someone and extracts a little revenge on the Spurs later, it's all in good fun.

[Solid D]

Coach Brett Brown said in the post-game interview that he would be lying if he told you he didn't already know Pop's decision on who was going to get cut. The decision has been made.

[Obstructed_View]

You're probably right, it would be unfair after all these guys have given to not give him a chance in the final game. That sucks though, Farmer was pretty decent. But Hariston is by no means settling, so I'm ok with the decision.

It still puts a knot in my stomach that it looks like it's been between Farmer and Hairston all along. That pretty much means Farmer never had a chance because of Pop's crush on Tolliver.

[Ice009]

How do you guys know that is the decision? Pop's had people fooled before.

[beck210]

being at the game i found farmers night to be impressive, no he didnt hit all the threes that we are used to him making, but he made several nice hustle plays. One included a dive out-of-bounce to save the ball (he caught the ball and threw it around his back and it bounced off beasley). He also had what should have been a block right before halftime, he was called for a foul, but i believe he got allot of the ball.

[Fermixalot]

How do you guys know that is the decision? Pop's had people fooled before.

We don't for sure, but Pop's mancrushes can override his logical capacities at times. :lol

[Ice009]

So the decision is definitely made then.

Surely they won't waste anymore money going back to think about it some more would they? Would they say who tonight?

[beck210]

and Toliver wasnt even in the stadium

[Obstructed_View]

How do you guys know that is the decision? Pop's had people fooled before.
We'll just have to wait and see. I'm one of the few holding out hope that Tolliver actually is the final cut, but I've watched Pop make what I think are bad decisions before, and I've long since given up expecting that he sees what I see.

[Ice009]

and Toliver wasnt even in the stadium

Maybe he's getting his stuff to move to San Antonio? Either that or he's gone.

[Fermixalot]

We'll just have to wait and see. I'm one of the few holding out hope that Tolliver actually is the final cut, but I've watched Pop make what I think are bad decisions before, and I've long since given up expecting that he sees what I see.

I agree. It would be sweet to see both Hariston and Farmer to make it. When are the final cuts going to be announced?

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe he's getting his stuff to move to San Antonio? Either that or he's gone.

He's probably meeting with the realtor.

[Fermixalot]

He's probably meeting with the realtor.

He's gonna get a deal in this market!:toast

[Spurs Brazil]

FOURTH QUARTER

Miami's Mario Chalmers hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to give the Heat a 96-93 victory over the Spurs on Friday in their final preseason game.

Roger Mason scored eight points in the fourth quarter and nearly sparked a come-from-behind victory by the Spurs. His driving basket with 10.5 seconds left in regulation tied it 93-93. Mason hit his second 3-pointer of the fourth quarter with 24.7 seconds left in the game to cut the Heat's lead to one point.

Mason hit a 3-pointer early in the fourth quarter. Matt Bonner's second basket of the period put the Spurs in front 75-74 for their first lead since the first two minutes of the game.

The Spurs opened the fourth quarter with Jacque Vaughn, Desmon Farmer, Mason, Bonner and Fabricio Oberto.

Tim Duncan and Tony Parker sat out the fourth quarter. Parker had 16 points (12 in the third quarter) and six assists. Duncan had 11 points and four rebounds. The Heat's Dwyane Wade did not play.

George Hill, Anthony Tolliver and Malik Hairston did not see action for the Spurs. Hill had been sidelined with a sprained thumb.
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/spursworld/2008/10/gameday_spurs_vs_heat.html

[Slinkyman]

Coach Brett Brown said in the post-game interview that he would be lying if he told you he didn't already know Pop's decision on who was going to get cut. The decision has been made.

I think it was made before the game and farmer's the only one that made it, spurs like to have an extra roster spot for someone later on.

[DMX7]

Has Chalmers been playing good throughout pre-season. I know he played well during the summer league but dang.... he is a great athlete and super clutch.

[Obstructed_View]

Has Chalmers been playing good throughout pre-season. I know he played well during the summer league but dang.... he is a great athlete and super clutch.

His stats are about the same as Hill's are, but he's played four more games IINM.

[newspursfan]

I know as fans we all like to have these speculative discussions, but for many of your uninformed opinions Tolliver was not at the game due to a family emergency. He made the final cut. WAHOOOOOOO!! :flag:

[Obstructed_View]

Another thing to think about is: how does Bonner's play affect the A-To situation? Bonner, from the looks of it, had himself a relatively decent outing. He's had a couple this offseason. Does his "stepping it up," as Tim would put it, mean that Tolliver is redundant? Might Tolliver's minutes have gone to Matty, who then showed why we don't need another shooting big man?

Apparently it had none. As soon as Bonner starts screwing up, Pop's going to shoehorn Tolliver into games where he's going to be encouraged to throw up shots every time he touches the ball. I hope to God they start going in again. Apparently he's a Spur now.

As for Farmer, I don't know why they didn't just cut him with Green and Watkins. Seems like it's going to be all that much harder for him to catch on with someone else, unless Pop wanted to give Farmer the extra few thousand dollars he earned by lasting this long as a thank you for almost making the team.

[Biggems]

you know, as much as I want him gone, Bonner has had a very nice preseason. if he can carry that over to the regular season, then he may win me over again.

i think he has suffered from being in Pop's doghouse too much. In fact, I can only think of 3 players who never spent time in Pop's Casa de Perro.....Robinson, Elliott, and Duncan. I am also certain that Manu, Parker, and Bowen have probably taken Pop to the brink of a marine drill sargeant tirade, but remained free of the doghouse. However, every other player who has played under Pop, I am sure has lived in his doghouse at one time or another. For some, once they crawled in, they basically took up residence (Malik, Beno, Elson, Bonner)......If Bonner can get some consistent minutes, maybe just maybe, he can give us some decent numbers from the F/C position.


I still say cut Vaughn and keep Hairston and Farmer.

[vy65]

Apparently it had none. As soon as Bonner starts screwing up, Pop's going to shoehorn Tolliver into games where he's going to be encouraged to throw up shots every time he touches the ball. I hope to God they start going in again. Apparently he's a Spur now.

As for Farmer, I don't know why they didn't just cut him with Green and Watkins. Seems like it's going to be all that much harder for him to catch on with someone else, unless Pop wanted to give Farmer the extra few thousand dollars he earned by lasting this long as a thank you for almost making the team.

I think you're right about Tolliver being a Spur now. What's frustrating is that he seems so damned redundant with Bonner: long-ball shooting, un-athletic streak shooter. Every team needs a guy who makes the hustle- (Tolliver) but what's the point if you don't have points on the board (Farmer).

From the sounds of it, it seems like there was/possibly still is an on-going discussion of Hairston v. Farmer. I think that the debate is whether we go all-in on scoring now (Farmer) vs. a long-term project (Hairston). That's why, I think, Farmer didn't get cut with Green, Watkins, et. al. But, given who got playing time today, it appears highly likely Farmer's going to get his pink slip soon.

Although, when Salim got nixed, we found out that night. Nothing's been said about Farmer, so maybe the decision hasn't been made yet.

[SenorSpur]

I see Hairston didn't see any action. I wonder if that means he's gone.

[Obstructed_View]

Hairston was a draft pick, and he fits a need. No way he gets cut. He steps right in and is one of the best individual defenders on this team. That's the one characteristic of the players that are left that isn't a question mark. Hairston can play defense in the NBA, and he can play big guys. That makes him invaluable. Unless Pop is worried that Hairston's going to bloat up as soon as he makes the team, his job should have been as safe as Tollivers seems to have been all along.

If Tolliver was indeed a lock, then Farmer's only prayer was if he did something earth shattering against Miami, and even then he'd probably have gotten cut. The only reason I thought Farmer had a chance is because I can't grasp how Tolliver got elevated from surprise camp invitee to rotation player based upon what he did in preseason and Farmer didn't get a sniff.

[Ice009]

I know as fans we all like to have these speculative discussions, but for many of your uninformed opinions Tolliver was not at the game due to a family emergency. He made the final cut. WAHOOOOOOO!! :flag:

What are you some kind of Tolliver jock rider?

The guy stunk it up in preseason. If he shot like this is summer league he may not have even made it to training camp.

[Ice009]

If Tolliver was indeed a lock, then Farmer's only prayer was if he did something earth shattering against Miami, and even then he'd probably have gotten cut. The only reason I thought Farmer had a chance is because I can't grasp how Tolliver got elevated from surprise camp invitee to rotation player based upon what he did in preseason and Farmer didn't get a sniff.


You mean what Tolliver did in summer league? Because Tolliver sure didn't show me much in preseason to get a spot on the team over Farmer and Hairston.

[Obstructed_View]

You mean what Tolliver did in summer league? Because Tolliver sure didn't show me much in preseason to get a spot on the team over Farmer and Hairston.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I can't grasp how Tolliver did anything to secure his position on the team based upon what he did in camp. Perhaps you are correct and the shooting in summer league has been enough for Pop to ignore that Tolliver never shot nearly that well before or since.


When he was invited to camp based upon that scorching SL performance, we were all surprised and happy for him to have gotten an opportunity. He has done little with that opportunity to have somehow transformed into a stone cold lock to make the team. He's done something to make Pop fall in love with him, and I suspect that what he's done is to remind Pop of Robert Horry. I think I'd rather have Hairston and Farmer and try to get the real Horry back later if a roster spot opens up.

And in case you're wondering: Yes, I'm well aware that I'm WAY too invested in something that will most likely be inconsequential to how the Spurs do this year, but the season's approaching, and the adrenaline is starting to flow.

[Ice009]

I was very pleased to see Beno traded last offseason. This season I'm not really happy that Tolliver made it with WORSE performances than some of Beno's worst ;).

I just don't get it. You're also right I remember being surprised when Tolliver got that contact after SL. I didn't even think he was that great in SL either.

All I can say is wtf!

[Ice009]

I also gotta say if Pop is looking for players to be other players then it may never happen. Robery Horry is Robert Horry you may never find another one.

Just because Scola didn't have a Robery Horry like game didn't mean he wasn't any good. Instead of grabbing another Robert Horry it looks like he's grabbed another Bonner.

[TJastal]

Boy... its gonna be a long season, spurs look discombobulated as hell. Poor drafts / personnel decisions by spurs' management are really starting to catch up with em and its getting impossible to plug / hide all the holes in this team. The way it looks now, the spurs will be a .500 club and miss the playoffs. :bang

I can't help but say it again.... spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill :p:

And... if Popovich chooses to unload Farmer for Tolliver, I think that decision is also gonna bite em in the ass. Farmer is a keeper.

I think the spurs have two glaring needs right now .. a decent starting quality center / pf to go with Duncan preferably a center and prefereably younger. Where is Mahinmi, and why wasn't he brought on board? And Gist? I think both of these guys should have been given a chance to show their stuff in preseason.

Other glaring need is a guard / forward who can create off the dribble. Hairston and Hill are too young, Mason, Bowen, Finley all spot up shooters only. The strategy of stacking all shooters around Duncan might have worked once but its not enough in today's NBA. Spurs should have went after Kelenna Azubuike with their lump of money this off season, not Roger Mason.

If I were running the team, I'd be looking at packaging some combination of Mason, Bonner, KT, Oberto, Finley, Bowen for a decent big man who can help Duncan. As it stands right now, Duncan is going to have to carry alot of the load, with little help.

[SenorSpur]

Boy... its gonna be a long season, spurs look discombobulated as hell. Poor drafts / personnel decisions by spurs' management are really starting to catch up with em and its getting impossible to plug / hide all the holes in this team. The way it looks now, the spurs will be a .500 club and miss the playoffs. :bang

I can't help but say it again.... spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill :p:

And... if Popovich chooses to unload Farmer for Tolliver, I think that decision is also gonna bite em in the ass. Farmer is a keeper.

I think the spurs have two glaring needs right now .. a decent starting quality center / pf to go with Duncan preferably a center and prefereably younger. Where is Mahinmi, and why wasn't he brought on board? And Gist? I think both of these guys should have been given a chance to show their stuff in preseason.

Other glaring need is a guard / forward who can create off the dribble. Hairston and Hill are too young, Mason, Bowen, Finley all spot up shooters only. The strategy of stacking all shooters around Duncan might have worked once but its not enough in today's NBA. Spurs should have went after Kelenna Azubuike with their lump of money this off season, not Roger Mason.

If I were running the team, I'd be looking at packaging some combination of Mason, Bonner, KT, Oberto, Finley, Bowen for a decent big man who can help Duncan. As it stands right now, Duncan is going to have to carry alot of the load, with little help.

One the first major problems with your trade scenario is Bowen, Finley, KT and Oberto all have little to know trade value.

However, I do share your concern regarding the lack of frontline depth and a solid running mate for Tim. It is a legitimate concern, too. There just isn't another shotblocking, rebounding, rim-protecting-type presence on this team. A point I've been harping on all offseason.

Darryl Watkins was raw, but at least he showed a penchant for some of those skills. I wish there had been room for the Spurs to develop him. I hope to see him again in Spurs camp next season.

I wince everytime I see highlights of Tyson Chandler, Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum and other Western Conference bigs. Because I remember how it looked last year with Tim going up against many of these guys - almost single-handedly.

[ulosturedge]

I don't know how you guys equate Tolliver missing the game due to a family emergency to being a lock for the Spurs roster. Even if they wanted to see more of him in this final game they couldn't because a family emergency is a family emergency. If they already had their minds made up I don't think Tolliver not playing had anything to do with it.

But unfortunately I do believe Tolliver and Hairston are in and Farmer is out. In my opinion he is just a victim of circumstances. Regardless if Tolliver didn't have quite as an impressive preseason as Farmer he still fills our needs better. He's a big that can help spread the floor with his shooting and also gives Duncan all the space he needs to go to the bucket. Hairston is in because he has shown he can play NBA level defense and is a more rounded player then Farmer. You know the Spurs love players who can play "D". Defense wins championships. Not only that but the fact that the Spurs have a vested interest in him working out since he was aquired through draft trades and such makes him more of a shoe in.

So the only way Farmer could be put on the roster would be along side taking Hairston which wouldn't make any sense because the "2" position is slutted enough as it is. Having Manu, Mason, Hairston, Farmer(and not to mention even Hill could play some "2") would be an overkill on smaller shooters. Its a shame though cause Farmer is really deserving of a spot and his pure shooting would be of some value to the Spurs.

Correct me if i'm wrong but if we didn't put Hairston on our roster would he be free to sign with anyone or would we have his rights still or something?

[benefactor]

Wow...guess I shouldn't have went to bed. :) Enough 12hr shifts will make that decision for you though. Good to see Mason stepping up and going clutch. He will probably need to fill Manu's shoes some in that department while he is out.

I am really surprised at the outcome here. I agree with others that say Pop seemed to already have his mind made up. I think he sees Tolliver and Hairston as better fits for our system and that they are younger and more teachable at this point. He talked about the future in the interview and that seems to lean more that direction. I hope he is right. I feel bad for Farmer. He really played balls out throughout the preseason. I wish him the best and hopefully another team picks him up and gives him a chance...as long as that team is not in our division. :tu

[The Truth #6]

I don't know how you guys equate Tolliver missing the game due to a family emergency to being a lock for the Spurs roster. Even if they wanted to see more of him in this final game they couldn't because a family emergency is a family emergency. If they already had their minds made up I don't think Tolliver not playing had anything to do with it.

But unfortunately I do believe Tolliver and Hairston are in and Farmer is out. In my opinion he is just a victim of circumstances. Regardless if Tolliver didn't have quite as an impressive preseason as Farmer he still fills our needs better. He's a big that can help spread the floor with his shooting and also gives Duncan all the space he needs to go to the bucket. Hairston is in because he has shown he can play NBA level defense and is a more rounded player then Farmer. You know the Spurs love players who can play "D". Defense wins championships. Not only that but the fact that the Spurs have a vested interest in him working out since he was aquired through draft trades and such makes him more of a shoe in.

So the only way Farmer could be put on the roster would be along side taking Hairston which wouldn't make any sense because the "2" position is slutted enough as it is. Having Manu, Mason, Hairston, Farmer(and not to mention even Hill could play some "2") would be an overkill on smaller shooters. Its a shame though cause Farmer is really deserving of a spot and his pure shooting would be of some value to the Spurs.

Correct me if i'm wrong but if we didn't put Hairston on our roster would he be free to sign with anyone or would we have his rights still or something?


It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.

As for Tolliver's shooting being the reason he should be on the team - he hasn't shown it consistently enough to assume this is a given. The best shooter was Farmer. That seems clear.

It may not have been from a post player but I'd rather have a wing be our outside shooter than our post player. Tim needs more help inside with rebounds than a trigger happy one trick pony who camps outside. I'm sure others will disagree but I think we need a legitimate post player to go along with Tim.

It's odd that the team preaches defense then gets seduced by these post players who are outside shooters and don't play defense. To go back to the idea that Pop is locked into finding the next Horry - it wasn't just outside shooting that made Horry special. Horry played good defense - that was his important trait. Yes, he made occasional outside shots, but that was more and more rare. By the end he was actually a horrible outside shooter but he could contribute in other ways. (Though in truth, even that was in question for long stretches of the last 2 years.)

It's funny that Farmer gets critiqued for being a one dimensional shooter. Isn't that the exact same trait for Tolliver, with the exception being that Farmer has a long history of being a solid outside shooter and actually delivers, whereas Tolliver is more of a mystery.

I think people underestimate or forget how Kurt Thomas is also a big who shoots from the outside. No, not all the way from the 3 point line but he was getting many open looks from about 18 feet on the baseline a few games ago. Given that we're going to play him and he isn't going anywhere considering we just signed him, I rather just roll with him as big who shoots from the outside. The fact that Tolliver shoots the 3 is more a theoretical distinction to me. Yeah, I know it's an extra point but as far as spacing it's only a few feet difference.

This whole scenario makes no sense. I suppose if we hadn't given Finley that ridiculous contract this Summer we could have kept both Farmer and Hairston, though of course no one knew we actually have two quality players to choose from. And in fairness, to Finley he has shown up in better shape so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, even though in my opinion it was clearly time to move on from him when he became a complete liability for us last year for the majority of the season.

Yes, I suppose there is a glut of wings ("small shooters") now but there isn't a huge separation between them. Hairston could be better than Udoka by the end of the season, and Farmer could easily be more productive than Finley by the end of the season, if not sooner.

Ha, sorry for this rambling post. It's been a relatively interesting pre-season. We might as well wish the best for Tolliver and Hairston because that's who is going to be on the team. I think it was bad taste to make it seem like there really was a competition for the last spot and then keep Tolliver and Hairston away because it might look bad if they make mistakes or get outplayed. What goes on in the FO meetings must be fascinating. I can only assume there actually is an active discussion going on over decisions, but in the end the choices were predictable and obvious from a mile away.

[lurker23]

It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.


The Spurs staff has seen Tolliver play for over a dozen games now, and over a dozen practices as well. They weren't going to make their decision based solely on this single game, but rather a culmination of the entire Anthony Tolliver Experience (which I think should be his band's name if this basketball thing doesn't work out). The Spurs are a family organization, and I'm sure they encouraged Tolliver to take care of any family or personal business he may have. I don't think they'd hold it against him, and if anything they'd probably count it as a point in his favor if he chose his family first.

[tp2021]

The Spurs staff has seen Tolliver play for over a dozen games now, and over a dozen practices as well. They weren't going to make their decision based solely on this single game, but rather a culmination of the entire Anthony Tolliver Experience (which I think should be his band's name if this basketball thing doesn't work out). The Spurs are a family organization, and I'm sure they encouraged Tolliver to take care of any family or personal business he may have. I don't think they'd hold it against him, and if anything they'd probably count it as a point in his favor if he chose his family first.
Sort of like Splitter.

[byrdman31]

i was at the game... mason showed great leadership at the end, with that three and the drive. overall it was an decent game untill 4th quarter got a lil better. i think our starters are ready for the season, but i dont know about the bench yet.

[tp2021]

i was at the game... mason showed great leadership at the end, with that three and the drive. overall it was an decent game untill 4th quarter got a lil better. i think our starters are ready for the season, but i dont know about the bench yet.

Did Mason look good enough to be the starter when the season begins, or do you think Fin will get the nod at the 2?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know how you guys equate Tolliver missing the game due to a family emergency to being a lock for the Spurs roster.
Many folks reading the tea leaves think Pop made up his mind on Tolliver some time ago. Tolliver might have been reluctant to leave if he thought he really needed to play well in this game to make the team.


But unfortunately I do believe Tolliver and Hairston are in and Farmer is out. In my opinion he is just a victim of circumstances. Regardless if Tolliver didn't have quite as an impressive preseason as Farmer he still fills our needs better. He's a big that can help spread the floor with his shooting and also gives Duncan all the space he needs to go to the bucket.
The only downside of that you don't spread the floor if you never make a basket. The Spurs don't really need another guy who misses outside shots, and they don't need another tall guy who plays soft defense and doesn't rebound.

[Obstructed_View]

I can't help but say it again.... spurs should have drafted Chalmers instead of Hill :p:
Their stats are virtually identical, except that Hill is a far far better defender.


Where is Mahinmi, and why wasn't he brought on board?
He's been sitting behind the bench in a suit. He's injured.

[angelbelow]

i dont regret hill, chalmers played well but i dont see much potential for improvement. im chalmers is capped at as a role player/solid back up. but i honestly believe hills potential is higher even though hes currently not as polished as chalmers is.

my hope is that our to be coach jackie can really help hill out with the right mentality.

[Ice009]

It would have to be a HUGE family emergency for Tolliver to miss this game unless he already knew he was on the team. But let's assume he wasn't told he was on the team - he'd be putting his family in a much worse situation by potentially not getting an NBA contract by missing the game. I can't see anyone possibly throwing away hundreds of thousands of dollars over a family situation.

As for Tolliver's shooting being the reason he should be on the team - he hasn't shown it consistently enough to assume this is a given. The best shooter was Farmer. That seems clear.

It may not have been from a post player but I'd rather have a wing be our outside shooter than our post player. Tim needs more help inside with rebounds than a trigger happy one trick pony who camps outside. I'm sure others will disagree but I think we need a legitimate post player to go along with Tim.

It's odd that the team preaches defense then gets seduced by these post players who are outside shooters and don't play defense. To go back to the idea that Pop is locked into finding the next Horry - it wasn't just outside shooting that made Horry special. Horry played good defense - that was his important trait. Yes, he made occasional outside shots, but that was more and more rare. By the end he was actually a horrible outside shooter but he could contribute in other ways. (Though in truth, even that was in question for long stretches of the last 2 years.)

It's funny that Farmer gets critiqued for being a one dimensional shooter. Isn't that the exact same trait for Tolliver, with the exception being that Farmer has a long history of being a solid outside shooter and actually delivers, whereas Tolliver is more of a mystery.

I think people underestimate or forget how Kurt Thomas is also a big who shoots from the outside. No, not all the way from the 3 point line but he was getting many open looks from about 18 feet on the baseline a few games ago. Given that we're going to play him and he isn't going anywhere considering we just signed him, I rather just roll with him as big who shoots from the outside. The fact that Tolliver shoots the 3 is more a theoretical distinction to me. Yeah, I know it's an extra point but as far as spacing it's only a few feet difference.

This whole scenario makes no sense. I suppose if we hadn't given Finley that ridiculous contract this Summer we could have kept both Farmer and Hairston, though of course no one knew we actually have two quality players to choose from. And in fairness, to Finley he has shown up in better shape so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, even though in my opinion it was clearly time to move on from him when he became a complete liability for us last year for the majority of the season.

Yes, I suppose there is a glut of wings ("small shooters") now but there isn't a huge separation between them. Hairston could be better than Udoka by the end of the season, and Farmer could easily be more productive than Finley by the end of the season, if not sooner.

Ha, sorry for this rambling post. It's been a relatively interesting pre-season. We might as well wish the best for Tolliver and Hairston because that's who is going to be on the team. I think it was bad taste to make it seem like there really was a competition for the last spot and then keep Tolliver and Hairston away because it might look bad if they make mistakes or get outplayed. What goes on in the FO meetings must be fascinating. I can only assume there actually is an active discussion going on over decisions, but in the end the choices were predictable and obvious from a mile away.

Great post. I was saying earlier about the Spurs seeing Tolliver and Hairston since SL so I don't think they needed to play them. Pop knows what both of those guys can do by now. He's seen enough so one more game probably wasn't going to change Pop's opinion about those two players.

I really do not think it's guaranteed that Farmer has been cut just because he played last night. Maybe it's the opposite and Pop made up his mind on Farmer making the team? Since he hasn't seen as much of Farmer like he has of the others, maybe he wanted to give him one more run to be sure.

I also agree with your Horry bit. Pop seems to be looking at the shooting aspect of these guys. Horry did way more than just shoot. He needs to stop getting these one dimensional scrubs to try and replace Horry. That is an insult to Robert Horry. He's passing up better players like Scola for one dimensional scrubs like Bonner. If you want one dimensional shooter look at getting them at the SF or SG postitions. We need big men that can play like big men. Grab rebounds, play defense and score some inside.

Having said that if Bonner is on the team I hope he does well as we really need him to get it, and start playing well, step up like Tim said.

[Ice009]

I love Hill's defense so far. That gets me just as excited or even more so than offense.

[Obstructed_View]

I love Hill's defense so far. That gets me just as excited or even more so than offense.

Hill, Hairston and Gist is looking like an all-defensive trifecta for the Spurs.

[tav1]

In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?

[Bruno]

In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?

I don't see why someone would lied about that.

[tav1]

I don't see why someone would lied about that.

Agree. But it was the person's first post. Don't know whether they can be trusted.

[angelbelow]

In another thread someone suggested Tolliver's mother passed away. Any truth to the claim?

if thats true.. then best wishes to him and i hope everything is ok.

[Bruno]

Agree. But it was the person's first post. Don't know whether they can be trusted.

I don't see someone registering just to make a that bad taste joke. Saying that, everything is possible...
IMO, he is someone who know Tolliver and was upset about people "blaming" Tolliver for missing the game.

Very sad news. Life is full of that.

[Obstructed_View]

The funny thing is, I don't recall anyone "blaming" Tolliver for anything. I certainly didn't see any reason for someone to call people assholes in their only post. It's probably a family member who did a search to make sure we weren't bad mouthing Anthony, which is understandable.

If what that poster said is true, my certainty of Tolliver's making the team just doubled.

[Bruno]

The funny thing is, I don't recall anyone "blaming" Tolliver for anything.

Note the quote I've used around blaming.
In all likelihood, his/her friend has lost his mother. I'm sure you could understand that he/she is very sensitive about that.

[Obstructed_View]

Note the quote I've used around blaming.
In all likelihood, his/her friend has lost his mother. I'm sure you could understand that he/she is very sensitive about that.

Right, I understand. My point is that I haven't seen anyone take a personal shot at any of the three guys who are fighting for a job. The only joke anyone made when we found out that Tolliver wasn't at the game was to suggest that he was busy packing to move to San Antonio because he made the team.

Besides, if that person is so sensitive, maybe a message board isn't the best place for them right now, particularly if they can't keep from calling people "assholes" without any justification whatsoever.

[letsgospurs]

It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836

[benefactor]

He made the team.


Her death came on the same day that Tolliver, a former Creighton star, officially learned that he made the San Antonio Spurs' roster.

[ElNono]

It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836

My condolences to Anthony and his family.
Maybe the moderators want to open a new thread to offer support for him in these difficult times?

[Obstructed_View]

That's heartbreaking. What should have been the happiest day of his life.

[duncan228]

It is true about Tollivers mother. This just posted in the Omaha World Herald http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836

That's so sad. My thoughts are with him and his family.

Here's the article:

NBA: Basketball dream on hold for Tolliver after mother's death
BY STEVEN PIVOVAR
WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER

Creighton coach Dana Altman recalls Donna Lewis bubbling with pride in July as they watched her son, Anthony Tolliver, play in a professional summer basketball league in Las Vegas.

"We watched two games together," Altman said. "She was so excited for Anthony. She had just retired, and she had planned to spend time following Anthony, whether he was in the NBA or playing overseas."

Lewis won't get that opportunity as she died Thursday of an apparent heart attack in Springfield, Mo. She was 56.

Her death came on the same day that Tolliver, a former Creighton star, officially learned that he made the San Antonio Spurs' roster.

Tolliver was practicing with the Spurs on Thursday when informed of his mother's death. He left the team to return to Springfield to be with his family.

"Anthony's devastated," said Larry Fox, Tolliver's agent. "I've talked to him but what can you say? There are no magical words that you can say that can make this make sense.

"I got to know his mother, and she was one of the nicest ladies you'd ever meet. She was well-respected in the community. I spoke with her regularly, and I could hear the pride in her voice whenever she talked about Anthony."

Fox said the Spurs, who open the regular season this week, have given Tolliver a leave of absence.

"They've been very classy," Fox said. "They called right away to ask what needs to be done. They said they were willing to help Anthony any way possible. They're going to give him whatever time he needs to get through this. They're not even thinking about the basketball part of it.

"It's going to be hard. She was a very special lady, and Anthony was very, very close to her. I'm just glad she got a chance to see what a man her son had become and how he had accomplished some of his goals."

Tolliver signed as a free agent with the Spurs last summer after impressing the team with his summer-league play. Tolliver was an All-Missouri Valley Conference selection in 2007 who originally signed with the Cleveland Cavaliers. He made the team's opening day roster last fall but was waived shortly before the first game.

He played last season with Des Moines of the NBA's Development League and in Germany.

Tolliver was the youngest of seven children raised by Lewis, a single parent. A teacher, Lewis instilled the value of education in her children. That figured heavily into Tolliver winding up at Creighton, Altman and Athletic Director Bruce Rasmussen said.

"We got a big assist from her in getting Anthony here," Altman said. "She was in our corner. As an educator, she really thought that Creighton, with its academic reputation, was the place for Anthony. She was a very strong lady, and she was very supportive of Anthony, our school and our program."

Tolliver struggled in his first two seasons, playing sparingly as a freshman and inconsistently as a sophomore.

"His struggles were well-chronicled, and there were times when Anthony probably thought about leaving," Rasmussen said. "His mom wouldn't have let him. She always said that Creighton was the school for him. She was always very supportive of Creighton and him being here."

Rasmussen said Tolliver had a special relationship with his mother.

"I know Anthony was very, very close to his mom," Rasmussen said. "When we're on the road, most guys get on their cell phones after a game to call their girlfriends or friends. Anthony typically was on the phone with his mom.

"I always sensed that Anthony's mom was his best friend and he was his mom's best friend. That's the kind of relationship they had. She wanted the best for Anthony. She was very supportive and had a very strong influence on him."

That influence will help Tolliver get through this tragedy, Altman said.

"This would be hard on anyone, but knowing how close the two of them were, it's going to be especially tough," Altman said. "He was devastated but I also know Anthony is a tough, young man. He's a man of faith. He'll bounce back."

Other survivors include Tolliver's sisters, Leslie, RaVonda, Angela, JaVonna and Suzie and brother Armani. Arrangements are pending.

[duncan228]

My condolences to Anthony and his family.
Maybe the moderators want to open a new thread to offer support for him in these difficult times?

There aren't really mods here. It's a great idea to start a thread for this, you should do it.

Edit: benefactor started one.

[ElNono]

There aren't really mods here. It's a great idea to start a thread for this, you should do it.

Edit: benefactor started one.

I just couldn link the original article.

Thanks benefactor!

[benefactor]

I just couldn link the original article.

Thanks benefactor!
:tu

[Obstructed_View]

But back to basketball, I'm gonna be pissed if Hairston gets cut. Losing Farmer's disappointing, but if they can't make a roster move, then Hairston has to make this team.

[Ice009]

We'll have to wait and see, but I'm going by what Pop originally said about wanting offense. If they can't keep both I'm going to say that Pop picks Farmer.

[Obstructed_View]

We'll have to wait and see, but I'm going by what Pop originally said about wanting offense. If they can't keep both I'm going to say that Pop picks Farmer.

If that's the case, then I'm not sure why Pop picked Hill, Hairston and Gist.

[Ice009]

If that's the case, then I'm not sure why Pop picked Hill, Hairston and Gist.

Good point. I don't think any of us know what Pop is doing.

It's actually starting to piss me off when he says anything now because I don't know if he means it.

[Obstructed_View]

If he picks a guy known for long arms and good defense, who has proven that he can play good NBA defense, and then cuts him for shooters, including a BAD shooter, then it's really going to be hard to defend him when I start attacking this year. :)

[Ice009]

lol what is Pop doing. I have no clue what he is looking for. Like you guys said in another thread I would have preferred they got Tim some help up front.

[galvatron3000]

lol what is Pop doing. I have no clue what he is looking for. Like you guys said in another thread I would have preferred they got Tim some help up front.

I think we all would have but from where and at what price. Remember the Spurs aren't paying top dollar and aren't bringing in player who will demand as much money as Tim with nothing to give in return outside of the big three. Always factor in salary and needs when figuring what the Spurs are going to do.

[Obstructed_View]

I think we all would have but from where and at what price. Remember the Spurs aren't paying top dollar and aren't bringing in player who will demand as much money as Tim with nothing to give in return outside of the big three. Always factor in salary and needs when figuring what the Spurs are going to do.

I don't know, how about in the draft? The Spurs passed up a lot of guys that can score for guys that can play defense, and then let two of those guys go despite their impressive play because there's a "need" on offense. The perceived needs were there well before the draft.

The Spurs targeted the same positions in free agency that they did in the draft and ended up with a bunch of players that were all competing for basically one spot, while another was basically guaranteed a spot because he's two inches taller. Hell, Gist showed a real ability to hit jumpers, plus he can rebound and block shots. I'm beginning to suspect that he was allowed to go to Europe so he wouldn't challenge for Tolliver's spot.

[Ice009]

Hell, Gist showed a real ability to hit jumpers, plus he can rebound and block shots. I'm beginning to suspect that he was allowed to go to Europe so he wouldn't challenge for Tolliver's spot.


Gist may have destroyed Tolliver had he been here for preseason.

[Obstructed_View]

Gist may have destroyed Tolliver had he been here for preseason.

Exactly. It seems pretty likely that Pop made the decision about Tolliver way before camp, so Gist's exodus may have been politically motivated.

[The Truth #6]

Exactly. It seems pretty likely that Pop made the decision about Tolliver way before camp, so Gist's exodus may have been politically motivated.

I'll agree that in sending Gist away it was a commitment to Tolliver. The rationale, like many things with the FO, is something we will never be able to fully understand. On one hand there seems to be vigorous discussions in meetings but in the end it seems to come down to the whims of Pop.

He preaches defense and is smitten by shooters is a shorter answer.

[Obstructed_View]

I'll agree that in sending Gist away it was a commitment to Tolliver. The rationale, like many things with the FO, is something we will never be able to fully understand. On one hand there seems to be vigorous discussions in meetings but in the end it seems to come down to the whims of Pop.

He preaches defense and is smitten by shooters is a shorter answer.

Another good short answer is that he's listened to the boring talk too long and secretly dreams of being Mike D'Antoni.

[SenorSpur]

I'll agree that in sending Gist away it was a commitment to Tolliver. The rationale, like many things with the FO, is something we will never be able to fully understand. On one hand there seems to be vigorous discussions in meetings but in the end it seems to come down to the whims of Pop.

He preaches defense and is smitten by shooters is a shorter answer.

Which is why I'm still baffled at the choice of Farmer over Hairston...even though I shouldn't be. The Spurs identity is defense, yet they've got a few players who are terrible defenders.

[tp2021]

He preaches defense and is smitten by shooters is a shorter answer.

His wife of 7 years is Bruce Bowen, but the hot coworker he has fantasized about at the office for years is Michael Finley.