I'm so glad we privatized Social Security.

[RandomGuy]

I'm so glad that Bush managed to push through a privatization of Social Security in his first year.

"The markets would make better returns if everybody invested lock stock and barrel into the stock market" he said, and we all went along.

The stock market did nothing but go up and now all sorts of people are saying "wow, my gauranteed returns from the stock market have made me rich enough to retire right now, how silly we were to be worried that the stock market would go down, and to accept anything less than a 10% return..."

I mean the flood of people retiring early is providing a huge boost to the tourism industry...

[RandomGuy]

:flipoff

I told you so, biyatches.

[101A]

I'd still like to opt out, and take my 14.5% back; I'll take care of myself, and pay whatever the going tax rate is when I retire, and come out way, way, way ahead.

Hell, buying at these prices today is kicking ass; if I could invest that much more, great.


You told me nothing. Go ahead and praise Social Security. It's doomed to failure; gonna take higher and higher taxes (as we've learned, throw enough money at ANYTHING, and you can "fix" it), to keep it afloat; hell, once the baby boomers voting block starts dying, they'll probably means-test me right out of ANY benefits.

Just like Medicare and Medicaid; it hasn't lived up to its promise, and has cost more than anybody could have conceived when it was proposed. Go ahead, be a champion of failure and waste, of failed programs; it's all you've got. Demonize, condemn, scream that WE; the ones who might want to try something NEW to fix the problems of society ARE the problem. No - YOU are the problem. YOU think that the only problem these great panaceas of wealth have, is that, I guess, there aren't ENOUGH of them? Social Security is doomed; so start Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare - ALL of those fail to accomplish what the politicians said they would accomplish, and cost WAY more than anyone said they would; SO lets go ahead and give the govt. control of ALL of healthcare!!!!! Do you EVER admit that these programs are too expensive, and don't do what they are supposed to? You seem like a rational guy, but you can't see the forest for the trees through your partisan glasses!

Go ahead, do the math. A guy retiring TODAY - say he started work in '63 - the DOW was at $625 - any single dollar he invested then, well, again, you do the math. It hit $1,000 in '81 - then your money would have quadrupled during the '80s - the Dow hit 4,000 around 1990 - The Dow is now back at the level that it hit in 1998 - 99; Sure, it skyrocketed under Bush to 14K - and has lost all of that in the last few weeks; but it won't stay down forever - you know it, I know it, and, again, DO the math; if you had put away the same % throughout your working career; JUST like they make you do with SS - YOU would have more money now; EVEN with the current crisis. Would you have as much as you had a couple of weeks ago? No - but that's a non-comparison - Social Security WILL NOT give returns like that, and, hell, my old man kicked at 60 - mom got all of $250 from SS for him; dude PAID in over 200 grand.

You didn't tell anybody shit.

[LnGrrrR]

101A,

Good points.

[Anti.Hero]

Social security is a joke and the people should be allowed to opt out.


I'm sorry that RG is another poor sap who has allowed the current market conditions to throw support behind another failed government welfare program.

[2centsworth]

Stocks are not short-term investments. Since 1929 including the Great Depression, WWII, Vietnam, Tech Bubble, Real Estate Bubble, Etc... stocks have averaged (keyword) about 10% per year.

So hell yeah I wish Social Security was privatized for me, because I would be gobbling up stocks right now to spend 30 years from now.

[RandomGuy]

I'd still like to opt out, and take my 14.5% back; I'll take care of myself, and pay whatever the going tax rate is when I retire, and come out way, way, way ahead.

Hell, buying at these prices today is kicking ass; if I could invest that much more, great.


You told me nothing. Go ahead and praise Social Security. It's doomed to failure; gonna take higher and higher taxes (as we've learned, throw enough money at ANYTHING, and you can "fix" it), to keep it afloat; hell, once the baby boomers voting block starts dying, they'll probably means-test me right out of ANY benefits.

Just like Medicare and Medicaid; it hasn't lived up to its promise, and has cost more than anybody could have conceived when it was proposed. Go ahead, be a champion of failure and waste, of failed programs; it's all you've got. Demonize, condemn, scream that WE; the ones who might want to try something NEW to fix the problems of society ARE the problem. No - YOU are the problem. YOU think that the only problem these great panaceas of wealth have, is that, I guess, there aren't ENOUGH of them? Social Security is doomed; so start Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare - ALL of those fail to accomplish what the politicians said they would accomplish, and cost WAY more than anyone said they would; SO lets go ahead and give the govt. control of ALL of healthcare!!!!! Do you EVER admit that these programs are too expensive, and don't do what they are supposed to? You seem like a rational guy, but you can't see the forest for the trees through your partisan glasses!

Go ahead, do the math. A guy retiring TODAY - say he started work in '63 - the DOW was at $625 - any single dollar he invested then, well, again, you do the math. It hit $1,000 in '81 - then your money would have quadrupled during the '80s - the Dow hit 4,000 around 1990 - The Dow is now back at the level that it hit in 1998 - 99; Sure, it skyrocketed under Bush to 14K - and has lost all of that in the last few weeks; but it won't stay down forever - you know it, I know it, and, again, DO the math; if you had put away the same % throughout your working career; JUST like they make you do with SS - YOU would have more money now; EVEN with the current crisis. Would you have as much as you had a couple of weeks ago? No - but that's a non-comparison - Social Security WILL NOT give returns like that, and, hell, my old man kicked at 60 - mom got all of $250 from SS for him; dude PAID in over 200 grand.

You didn't tell anybody shit.

Thanks.

I was being a little snotty, and you handed it back to me without missing a beat.

I wish I had time for a decent discussion. You and I need to get together over a pitcher of beer at some point. :toast

[lurker23]

This is one point I agree with the Republicans on. I have zero faith that Social Security will be around when I retire, so I'm investing pretty heavily on my own for retirement. It's a while until I retire, so I'm being pretty aggressive with my money. I'm losing some right now, but I'll gain every penny of it back plus more when the market goes back up in the next 1-15 years. Meanwhile, I'm also throwing thousands of dollars at Social Security, helping to pay for current retirees, while I'd be very surprised if I see any of that money back at all.

[101A]

Thanks.

I was being a little snotty, and you handed it back to me without missing a beat.

I wish I had time for a decent discussion. You and I need to get together over a pitcher of beer at some point. :toast

Deal.

Next time your in Indiana, Pa; make sure you let me know.

[boutons_]

"about 10% per year."

including inflation and brokerage fees?

[101A]

"about 10% per year."

including inflation and brokerage fees?


OF course not inflation; 10% is WAY above inflation. With the kinds of dollars we're talking about over a lifetime of work, brokerage fees are irrelevant; what, are you against ANYONE making money? In your world, what jobs are legitimate?

I won't get 0% out of SS - I'll take a loss.

[2centsworth]

"about 10% per year."

including inflation and brokerage fees?

inflation has been a little over 3% and brokerage fees on a market index fund run less than 1/2 % per year.