Where are Yonivore, XrayZebra, Whottt... [Archive]

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JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 02:48 PM

and all the other Bush lovers been?

Come on in and stand up for your man Palin and McCain!!

I'll be here after the election no matter who wins. I've eaten crow before.

AntiChrist

10-24-2008, 02:53 PM

LoL at stupid conservatives.

My people will riot and loot even when I win. Life is good.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 02:54 PM

I'm here and will be here after the election no matter who wins. Just had a lot of work since Obama went up so big in the polls...company is planning for the increased tax rate but wants to keep the same effective tax rate so that means we'll be cutting some headcount and shipping overseas. I'm working on negotiating with the local jurisdictions of the potential site closures to see which ones will give us the best deal on local taxes (property and sales/use) if we keep that site open.

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 02:57 PM

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 03:01 PM

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 03:02 PM

There will be some crying in the streets if the Dems lose this one...lol

There will be crying if the repubs lose this one too. But like I've said...I'm not taking anything for granted right now.

florige

10-24-2008, 03:02 PM

Whottt I think said was volunteering in Austin. Yoni is mia though....:lol

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 03:04 PM

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 03:05 PM

Youre wonderful. Nice shipping those jobs overseas.

Tell me, do you sell your products/service to anywhere outside the US? Canada and Mexico excluded.

yup

Damn, all that and the election hasn't even taken place? :lol

I see, run so you don't have to pay taxes?

The way of the world...in the end it's all about money.

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 03:05 PM

That's happening anyway...deregulation, corporate greed and dipshit economic advisors made that happen...nothing else.

That is a correct statement.

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 03:05 PM

yup

The way of the world...in the end it's all about money.

Sounds like the Palin/McCain way.

BRHornet45

10-24-2008, 03:06 PM

when the democrats lose and riot in big cities ... hopefully at least some of them kill each other and not innocent people.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 03:07 PM

That's happening anyway...deregulation, corporate greed and dipshit economic advisors made that happen...nothing else.

the internets made it possible as well...10-15 yrs ago it was much more difficult to communicate quickly with overseas divisions/employees.

Oh, Gee!!

10-24-2008, 03:08 PM

xray is a walmart greeter now to supplement his retirement income. whott is under arrest in PA for filing a false police report. yoni lost the "copy and paste" button on his computer and consequently has nothing to add to this forum.

romad_20

10-24-2008, 03:08 PM

when the democrats lose and riot in big cities ... hopefully at least some of them kill each other and not innocent people.

Awesome! Pro-lifers are the best. god bless

101A

10-24-2008, 03:30 PM

Sounds like the Palin/McCain way.

It is EVERYBODIES way!!!!

Why can't you figure that out?

What is Obama talking about?

Taking money from people - giving it to other people; people want the money GREEDILY, so they vote for Obama.

What is McCain talking about?

About Obama wanting to take their money; people want to keep their money GREEDILY; so they vote for McCain.

Both sides - money. Why is wanting to keep yours any greedier than wanting to get someone elses - IT'S ALL GREED!!!!

AND - it's not good or bad; it JUST IS!!!!

THAT is why, ultimately, economies that don't allow people to keep the fruits of their own labor, ultimately, fail - they simply don't have incentive to produce; at ANY level. You are going to get paid whether you work hard or not, whether you are efficient or not, whether your ideas are novel, OR NOT!!!! SOOOO all of those things suffer.

IT IS ALSO the reason a completely, dog eat dog, absolutely unregulated/ungoverned capitilistic system CANNOT work - the haves will continually NOT have ENOUGH - for most, there is never ENOUGH - we, apparentlly hard-wired that way. They will entrench themselves, and eventually the people at the bottom (the vast majority of people) will be held there through monetary power - and inventivess and productivity for MOST people will be irrelevant; productivity will slow - same effect, ultimately of the govt. doing it; just slower, and more obvious as to whose at fault.

Balance is requred - along with constant vigilance that we are not drifting too far one way or the other - we MUST allow people to feel like they can succeed, that the fruits of their labor will be, first and foremost, THEIR fruits; enlightened self-interest; where people can see beyond themselves and their family to how contributing to the entire society, is a view and philosophy reserved for VERY few individuals - and, I know you liberals hate to hear about this; the most CONSISTENT purveyor of that idea IN ACTION is organized religion in general, and in the United States (the most charitable country in the world) in Christian Churches!!!

If we could get our got-damned politicians to focus on what works, and throw the fuck away that which is a proven failure; we'd be there; but, alas, they are ALSO driven by Greed and self-interest; and when they get a formula that works to scratch that itch; they stick with it baby!!!!!

Ultimately?

We're fucked.

Saying $$$$$ is one sided is naive.

Gordon Gekko

10-24-2008, 03:34 PM

It is EVERYBODIES way!!!!

Why can't you figure that out?

What is Obama talking about?

Taking money from people - giving it to other people; people want the money GREEDILY, so they vote for Obama.

What is McCain talking about?

About Obama wanting to take their money; people want to keep their money GREEDILY; so they vote for McCain.

Both sides - money. Why is wanting to keep yours any greedier than wanting to get someone elses - IT'S ALL GREED!!!!

AND - it's not good or bad; it JUST IS!!!!

THAT is why, ultimately, economies that don't allow people to keep the fruits of their own labor, ultimately, fail - they simply don't have incentive to produce; at ANY level. You are going to get paid whether you work hard or not, whether you are efficient or not, whether your ideas are novel, OR NOT!!!! SOOOO all of those things suffer.

IT IS ALSO the reason a completely, dog eat dog, absolutely unregulated/ungoverned capitilistic system CANNOT work - the haves will continually NOT have ENOUGH - for most, there is never ENOUGH - we, apparentlly hard-wired that way.

Balance is requred - along with constant vigilance that we are not drifting too far one way or the other - we MUST allow people to feel like they can succeed, that the fruits of their labor will be, first and foremost, THEIR fruits; enlightened self-interest; where people can see beyond themselves and their family to how contributing to the entire society, is a view and philosophy reserved for VERY few individuals - and, I know you liberals hate to hear about this; the most CONSISTENT purveyor of that idea IN ACTION is organized religion in general, and in the United States (the most charitable country in the world) in Christian Churches!!!

If we could get our got-damned politicians to focus on what works, and throw the fuck away that which is a proven failure; we'd be there; but, alas, they are ALSO driven by Greed and self-interest; and when they get a formula that works to scratch that itch; they stick with it baby!!!!!

Ultimately?

We're fucked.

Saying $$$$$ is one sided is naive.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save , AIG, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 03:36 PM

It is EVERYBODIES way!!!!

Taking money from people - giving it to other people; people want the money GREEDILY, so they vote for Obama.

What is McCain talking about?

About Obama wanting to take their money; people want to keep their money GREEDILY; so they vote for McCain.

Both sides - money. Why is wanting to keep yours any greedier than wanting to get someone elses - IT'S ALL GREED!!!!

AND - it's not good or bad; it JUST IS!!!!

THAT is why, ultimately, economies that don't allow people to keep the fruits of their own labor, ultimately, fail - they simply don't have incentive to produce; at ANY level. You are going to get paid whether you work hard or not, whether you are efficient or not, whether your ideas are novel, OR NOT!!!! SOOOO all of those things suffer.

IT IS ALSO the reason a completely, dog eat dog, absolutely unregulated/ungoverned capitilistic system CANNOT work - the haves will continually NOT have ENOUGH - for most, there is never ENOUGH - we, apparentlly hard-wired that way. They will entrench themselves, and eventually the people at the bottom (the vast majority of people) will be held there through monetary power - and inventivess and productivity for MOST people will be irrelevant; productivity will slow - same effect, ultimately of the govt. doing it; just slower, and more obvious as to whose at fault.

Balance is requred - along with constant vigilance that we are not drifting too far one way or the other - we MUST allow people to feel like they can succeed, that the fruits of their labor will be, first and foremost, THEIR fruits; enlightened self-interest; where people can see beyond themselves and their family to how contributing to the entire society, is a view and philosophy reserved for VERY few individuals - and, I know you liberals hate to hear about this; the most CONSISTENT purveyor of that idea IN ACTION is organized religion in general, and in the United States (the most charitable country in the world) in Christian Churches!!!

If we could get our got-damned politicians to focus on what works, and throw the fuck away that which is a proven failure; we'd be there; but, alas, they are ALSO driven by Greed and self-interest; and when they get a formula that works to scratch that itch; they stick with it baby!!!!!

Ultimately?

We're fucked.

Saying $$$$$ is one sided is naive.

Oh where to begin. A free market economy relies on people not stowing their money under their mattress or in a coffee can in the back yard. It's money FLOWING. Unfortunately, there have been those in every party who have more POWER than others and are able to keep the money flowing in their own ranks.

And don't tell me Christians are charitable...they cherry pick that charity as much as everyone else.

fyatuk

10-24-2008, 03:37 PM

While I no longer believe that McCain will win, its the great timing of an economic crisis that did him in. As soon as the words "bailout" were first uttered, McCain's campaign was doomed.

Not that it matters much. I don't have faith that either of them won't make things worse.

101A

10-24-2008, 03:38 PM

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

And greed -- you mark my words -- will not only save , AIG, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

Thanks, G. I hear you're doing another flick.

I didn't say it was good, or bad; I said greed just IS.

01.20.09

10-24-2008, 03:39 PM

Things will get worse before they get better and the repubican pundits will be all over Obama on 01/21/09 since he hasn't fixed it yet.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 03:46 PM

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 03:47 PM

Things will get worse before they get better and the repubican pundits will be all over Obama on 01/21/09 since he hasn't fixed it yet.

I think we'd at least give him a whole week (working days only though).

baseline bum

10-24-2008, 03:49 PM

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 03:52 PM

Fuck you.

Cool, thanks.

fyatuk

10-24-2008, 03:53 PM

Yeah. Lost all faith in McCain after he voted for the bailout.

I never had any to begin with. I still think McCain would win without the economic crisis, but I was never too terribly fond of the idea of a McCain presidency.

101A

10-24-2008, 03:57 PM

Oh where to begin. A free market economy relies on people not stowing their money under their mattress or in a coffee can in the back yard. It's money FLOWING. Unfortunately, there have been those in every party who have more POWER than others and are able to keep the money flowing in their own ranks.

And don't tell me Christians are charitable...they cherry pick that charity as much as everyone else.

"Oh where to begin".

Sanctimonious bitch.

Don't use that tone with me.

Ah yes, the cry of money ebbing and flowing, coming and going; It's that view that allows people to justify TAKING money, to give; flow is the deal, right? So, ultimately, it doesn't matter how it ultimately into various hands, as long as it get around, right? Perfectly logical. Perfectly WRONG!!!

It assumes a FINITE amount of money - which there is not. The money supply is infinite; the key to a succesfull society is NOT wealth redistribution; it is maximizing wealth creation. Then there is MORE to go around; EVERYTHING gets easier - everything, ultimately COULD be possible. It takes, however, a balance we have never achieved, and with the prevalent view that you just espoused being preached by a bunch of never-been-there-never-done-that economics professors at our universities (which, no doubt, you sound like you currently spend some time with these days, thus the sanctimony) - we are getting further and further from it.

When I go in my back yard, chop down a tree (I live in Pa, it's OK, there are lots); dry the wood; cure it; plane it, and make a really cool table out of it; I have created value, I have created some amount of wealth that DID NOT exist before, through my labor, skill and ingenuity.

Money flowing certainly is a part of it, but wealth creation is far more important.

Now, Ayn Rand, in many ways is WAY over the top; but the gyst of the concept are included in Francisco's "Money Speach" from Atlas Shrugged.

"Francisco's Money Speech"

by Ayn Rand (http://www.capmag.com/author.asp?ID=61) (August 30, 2002)
http://www.capmag.com/images2y346y/people/ayn_rand.jpg The following is an excerpt from Atlas Shrugged, © Copyright, 1957, by Ayn Rand (http://www.aynrand.org/). It is reprinted with permission from the Estate of Ayn Rand.
"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Anconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?
"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears not all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor--your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money, Is this what you consider evil?
"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.
"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is made--before it can be looted or mooched--made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.'
"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss--the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery--that you must offer them values, not wounds--that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of goods. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best that your money can find. And when men live by trade--with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, the man of best judgment and highest ability--and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.
"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants: money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve the mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?
"Money is your means of survival. The verdict you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?
"Or did you say it's the love of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money--and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it.
"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.
"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.
"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich--will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt--and of his life, as he deserves.
"Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.
"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.
"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are.
"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while you're damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, whose names changed, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves--slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer, Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers--as industrialists.
"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money--and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being--the self-made man--the American industrialist.
"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to make money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.
"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide-- as, I think, he will.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

I'm out.

Gonna go spend some of the wealth I created this week!!!

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 04:02 PM

yup

The way of the world...in the end it's all about money.

Great, so you and your company are cutting-heads under the assumption that the tax system will change under Obama, yet he hasnt won the election.

Youre cowards and hypocrites. Nice combo :tu

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:03 PM

Ack...I don't want to read all that you empty headed cock...it's called capitalism...look up it's principles

ChumpDumper

10-24-2008, 04:03 PM

They'll end up cutting the jobs regardless. Money is money.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:06 PM

[quote=101A;2847020]"Oh where to begin".

Sanctimonious bitch.

Don't use that tone with me.

Ah yes, the cry of money ebbing and flowing, coming and going; It's that view that allows people to justify TAKING money, to give; flow is the deal, right? So, ultimately, it doesn't matter how it ultimately into various hands, as long as it get around, right? Perfectly logical. Perfectly WRONG!!!

It assumes a FINITE amount of money - which there is not. The money supply is infinite; the key to a succesfull society is NOT wealth redistribution; it is maximizing wealth creation. Then there is MORE to go around; EVERYTHING gets easier - everything, ultimately COULD be possible. It takes, however, a balance we have never achieved, and with the prevalent view that you just espoused being preached by a bunch of never-been-there-never-done-that economics professors at our universities (which, no doubt, you sound like you currently spend some time with these days, thus the sanctimony) - we are getting further and further from it.

When I go in my back yard, chop down a tree (I live in Pa, it's OK, there are lots); dry the wood; cure it; plane it, and make a really cool table out of it; I have created value, I have created some amount of wealth that DID NOT exist before, through my labor, skill and ingenuity.

Money flowing certainly is a part of it, but wealth creation is far more important.

Now, Ayn Rand, in many ways is WAY over the top; but the gyst of the concept are included in Francisco's "Money Speach" from Atlas Shrugged.

And duh...there isn't a finite amount of money...because dipshits like Greenspan and Bernake think we can fix EVERYTHING by printing more to cover the asses of the dumbass bankers who loaned a batch of money to a pack of idiots who didn't have any credit....hufff....pufff...and Paulson who says "Let's give it all to the same dipshits who fucked it up in the first place...thereby creating a shitload of inflation...." omg I'm tired

101A

10-24-2008, 04:07 PM

Ack...I don't want to read all that you empty headed cock...it's called capitalism...look up it's principles

Weak.

peewee's lovechild

10-24-2008, 04:08 PM

Weak.

I thought you were leaving.

101A

10-24-2008, 04:09 PM

[quote=101A;2847020]

And duh...there isn't a finite amount of money...because dipshits like Greenspan and Bernake think we can fix EVERYTHING by printing more to cover the asses of the dumbass bankers who loaned a batch of money to a pack of idiots who didn't have any credit....hufff....pufff...and Paulson who says "Let's give it all to the same dipshits who fucked it up in the first place...thereby creating a shitload of inflation...." omg I'm tired

I guess I should have used "wealth" instead of money. Greenspan, Paulson, Bernake, et al. create no wealth; they simply print money; it a bastardization band-aid, eywash, candy-assed way of making a problem worse.

Really, I'm gone.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:11 PM

[quote=only1wwff;2847038]

I guess I should have used "wealth" instead of money. Greenspan, Paulson, Bernake, et al. create no wealth; they simply print money; it a bastardization band-aid, eywash, candy-assed way of making a problem worse.

Really, I'm gone.

Sanctimonious because I'm in school...that's a pretty big word for an Ayn Rand spouting furniture maker

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 04:12 PM

Great, so you and your company are cutting-heads under the assumption that the tax system will change under Obama, yet he hasnt won the election.

Youre cowards and hypocrites. Nice combo :tu

read my post...key words: "Planning", "potential site closures", "same effective rate"

If taxes aren't raised it probably won't happen. But in business you always need a plan in case stuff happens. You don't just sit there and let it happen and THEN start planning.

baseline bum

10-24-2008, 04:13 PM

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 04:16 PM

I hope your company gets royally fucked over. American companies shipping jobs to India, Mexico, and so on is so chickenshit. You and the politicians you assholes are paying off are what's killing America. It's why we don't make shit in this country anymore; because there's always an arbitrage opportunity in China/India/Mexico/etc. Thank you for fucking our nation, piece of shit.

Shit isn't made in the US anymore because nobody in the US wants to pay 30% more for a product of equal quality that is made entirely in the US versus one made overseas.

clambake

10-24-2008, 04:20 PM

Shit isn't made in the US anymore because nobody in the US wants to pay 30% more for a product of equal quality that is made entirely in the US versus one made overseas.

thats because they buried quality years ago and adopted your philosophy.

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 04:23 PM

I hope your company gets royally fucked over. American companies shipping jobs to India, Mexico, and so on is so chickenshit. You and the politicians you assholes are paying off are what's killing America. It's why we don't make shit in this country anymore; because there's always an arbitrage opportunity in China/India/Mexico/etc. Thank you for fucking our nation, piece of shit.

While it seems Ken is not the executive making the decision (it seems he is tasked with executing the decision more than anything) and with his obvious agreement in his attitude he displayed in this thread (and another), I like this post when directed at companies who outsource.

I often wonder what is so wrong with protectionism. Thats an honest question.

ElNono

10-24-2008, 04:23 PM

Shit isn't made in the US anymore because nobody in the US wants to pay 30% more for a product of equal quality that is made entirely in the US versus one made overseas.

So it's just about greed and bottom line... 'tough cookies' for everyone else. Not that we didn't know it was anything different.

That's why I'll be real pleased if Obama wins and then tax the shit out of you greedy assholes.

TheMadHatter

10-24-2008, 04:25 PM

McCain likely would have lost even if the economic crisis hadn't happened. He was down in all the polls before the crisis, only taking the lead after his RNC bounce. But that's all it was, a bounce. Obama would still have squeaked out a win by taking the Southwest.

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 04:26 PM

thats because they buried quality years ago and adopted your philosophy.

boom.

The best example I have is the auto companies. They were quasi-monopolies and thought this whole Japan-thing was just an upstart that was to never be paid any heed.

Or the power company (at least here in Michigan), it has a monopoly on the market. So it is not beholden to its customers....what are you going to do, cancel? Good luck living without electricity in the upcoming winter, sucker! They have no reason to change unless they have competition.

I sincerely hope Obama passes the law that taxes the ever-loving hell out of people who ship their jobs overseas to make products that sell in the US.

I dont honestly know what that will do to current companies, but it might close some businesses....but when their is a vacuum, it is inevitably filled. At least it will be filled by an American company, not companies like the one you work for, Ken.

I believe shit is going to get A LOT worse before it ever gets better. If this country is to change, might as well make all of them now, starting with making shit in our country by our citizens. Fuck corporations...they were illegal for a long time for a reason.

clambake

10-24-2008, 04:27 PM

back to the title.

whottt said he was campaigning for mccain..........IN TEXAS!!!!

how fucking stupid is that?

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:28 PM

While it seems Ken is not the executive making the decision (it seems he is tasked with executing the decision more than anything) and with his obvious agreement in his attitude he displayed in this thread (and another), I like this post when directed at companies who outsource.

I often wonder what is so wrong with protectionism. Thats an honest question.

I've heard the outsourcing thing is biting companies in the ass.

romad_20

10-24-2008, 04:29 PM

back to the title.

whottt said he was campaigning for mccain..........IN TEXAS!!!!

how fucking stupid is that?

Considering some of the things I've seen him post on here, it seems pretty reasonable to me.

CubanMustGo

10-24-2008, 04:29 PM

I often wonder what is so wrong with protectionism. Thats an honest question.

Protectionism increases prices, thus Joe the Consumer won't support it. Joe want cheap crap from China!!!!

Just like Joe the Consumer doesn't want to do anything but pay less tax. Joe focuses on his wallet to the exclusion of ALL else.

baseline bum

10-24-2008, 04:30 PM

Seriously, fuck you and your company. People like you are why China is going to own us all in 50-100 years. Enjoy sticking your pencil-dick up your grandkids' asses.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:31 PM

Protectionism increases prices, thus Joe the Consumer won't support it. Joe want cheap crap from China!!!!

Just like Joe the Consumer doesn't want to do anything but pay less tax. Joe focuses on his wallet to the exclusion of ALL else.

Shit...what would happen to Wal-Mart???!!!

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 04:35 PM

While it seems Ken is not the executive making the decision (it seems he is tasked with executing the decision more than anything)

Absolutely 100% correct...I am just one spoke of many in the wheel. Like I said...my part is negotiating with the local jurisdictions to see who give us the best deal on local taxes. The cities/counties/states that do will likely see jobs remain in place (since I didn't clarify in my other thread, the locals that normally give us the best deals are normally the conservative ones who realize that we help their local economy tremendously. Not just in the direct jobs that are created by the company, but by the indirects like restaurants, shopping malls, etc. that open to service mainly our employees and their families).

and with his obvious agreement in his attitude he displayed in this thread (and another), I like this post when directed at companies who outsource.

I often wonder what is so wrong with protectionism. Thats an honest question.

With the protectionism...I just don't see the consumers willing to buy goods at the additional cost. Especially with the upcoming recession.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:37 PM

With the protectionism...I just don't see the consumers willing to buy goods at the additional cost. Especially with the upcoming recession.

people don't think long-term and take quality into consideration

TheMadHatter

10-24-2008, 04:37 PM

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 04:47 PM

The Global Economy is the way of the future. Outsourcing was bound to happen.

All you free market proponents should understand this. Businesses will go where they can maximize profits, and quite frankly cheap labor doesn't exist in this country. Everything that can be outsourced will be outsourced. The only way America can stay ahead is if we make a serious commitment becoming the leading technology center of the world.

:toast This is absolutely true.

Cheap labor is GONE in this country...and it's not just in manufacturing. We had a position open for 8 months for someone to make copies and file paperwork at $13 an hour. Nobody accepted the job for 8 months until we raised the pay to $15. That is WAYYY to high for making copies and filing paperwork. Shit, I worked my way through college 10 yrs ago at $7.25 and I had a lot more responsibilities than making copies and filing.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:49 PM

:toast This is absolutely true.

Cheap labor is GONE in this country...and it's not just in manufacturing. We had a position open for 8 months for someone to make copies and file paperwork at $13 an hour. Nobody accepted the job for 8 months until we raised the pay to $15. That is WAYYY to high for making copies and filing paperwork. Shit, I worked my way through college 10 yrs ago at $7.25 and I had a lot more responsibilities than making copies and filing.

Oh my fucking GOD I would have taken that job...but something tells me that's a regional issue...every out of work secretary in Colorado Springs would have submitted their resume for 13.00 an hour

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 04:50 PM

With the protectionism...I just don't see the consumers willing to buy goods at the additional cost. Especially with the upcoming recession.

Upcoming? You obviously dont live in Michigan...

DarkReign

10-24-2008, 04:51 PM

:toast This is absolutely true.

Cheap labor is GONE in this country...and it's not just in manufacturing. We had a position open for 8 months for someone to make copies and file paperwork at $13 an hour. Nobody accepted the job for 8 months until we raised the pay to $15. That is WAYYY to high for making copies and filing paperwork. Shit, I worked my way through college 10 yrs ago at $7.25 and I had a lot more responsibilities than making copies and filing.

Move that shit to Michigan. There will be a line out the door for that position. No exaggeration.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 04:52 PM

Oh my fucking GOD I would have taken that job...but something tells me that's a regional issue...every out of work secretary in Colorado Springs would have submitted their resume for 13.00 an hour

That's what I thought when people kept passing on the job!!!

boutons_

10-24-2008, 04:54 PM

One of big negatives of lowered oil prices is that the fuel transport cost of importing steel, cars, cement, garlic, computers, etc has gone down, so the make-here or buy-there decision is biased again towards buy-there.

btw, by international convention, trans-oceanic ships don't pay taxes on transport fuel, subsidizing the buy-there decision.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 04:56 PM

That's what I thought when people kept passing on the job!!!

What's up with your HR department, because I know Masters graduates who would have hopped on it...there must be more to it than that

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 04:58 PM

I don't get why people won't work for $13 an hour. Have Americans become that greedy?

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 05:00 PM

What's up with your HR department, because I know Masters graduates who would have hopped on it...there must be more to it than that

Yeah our HR dept. sucks (we've had different position open for a year and they've given us 3 resumes) but everyone we interviewed and liked didn't accept the offer. We probably offered 5-7 people the job @ $13 before we upped it to $15 and someone accepted.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 05:02 PM

I don't get why people won't work for $13 an hour. Have Americans become that greedy?

That's what I couldn't believe. For that $13 position we were just asking for 1-2 yrs general office experience, HS grad only college not required.

MannyIsGod

10-24-2008, 05:03 PM

LOL so its not that you couldn't find people to fill the position for 13 an hour its that you couldn't find anyone you liked to fill the position for 13 an hour.

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 05:04 PM

I don't get why people won't work for $13 an hour. Have Americans become that greedy?

Oh hell yeah people in this country will work for 13 an hour...especially for the benefits...

only1wwff

10-24-2008, 05:07 PM

That's what I couldn't believe. For that $13 position we were just asking for 1-2 yrs general office experience, HS grad only college not required.

Are you leaving out the blow job requirement....because that's either 2.00 an hour or an extra day of paid leave

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 05:08 PM

LOL so its not that you couldn't find people to fill the position for 13 an hour its that you couldn't find anyone you liked to fill the position for 13 an hour.

We offered it to 5-7 people. All of them were either not making $13 at their current jobs or not working at all. The ones that were working already I guess I could understand. But the ones that were unemployed when they interviewed and didn't make that much at their last job?? WTF?? We're a big company so the benefits are pretty good as well.

Maybe they just didn't like me or my boss who they also interviewed with?? Could have been the issue I guess.

KenMcCoy

10-24-2008, 05:09 PM

Are you leaving out the blow job requirement....because that's either 2.00 an hour or an extra day of paid leave

:rollinThat could've been it. We were only offering 1/2 day.

JoeChalupa

10-24-2008, 05:10 PM

That's what I couldn't believe. For that $13 position we were just asking for 1-2 yrs general office experience, HS grad only college not required.

I could live off of $27,000 a year easily in TX.

whottt

10-24-2008, 08:34 PM

and all the other Bush lovers been?

Come on in and stand up for your man Palin and McCain!!

I'll be here after the election no matter who wins. I've eaten crow before.

I've been working the election for 12 hours a day and I go to school. Plus I have another job...I'm not going to be around much until early voting ends on the 31st.

PS: I still think McCain is going to win. I don't have a doubt about it.

RandomGuy

10-27-2008, 12:24 PM

I've been working the election for 12 hours a day and I go to school. Plus I have another job...I'm not going to be around much until early voting ends on the 31st.

PS: I still think McCain is going to win. I don't have a doubt about it.

oooh boy let's not let this bit slide.

Goin in my siggy on Nov 5th, it is.

hater

10-27-2008, 12:46 PM

:lmao

xrayzebra

10-27-2008, 02:45 PM

I lurk occasionally. To many new folks on here, I will wait until election
is over with to come back and haunt you...........pun intended.

I couldn't take the job at Wal-Mart. Obama's tax cut would have taken
all of it.

Got that OG?

All I got to say about Obama, he is what he is. An street thug and
rabble rouser. Like, you know, a good leftie, with a vision of grandeur.

Oh, guess you haven't heard the latest, he thinks the Constitution is flawed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11OhmY1obS4

ElNono

10-27-2008, 02:50 PM

ChumpDumper

10-27-2008, 02:50 PM

Oh, guess you haven't heard the latest, he thinks the Constitution is flawed.So have millions of Americans over the years. That's why they amend it, genius.

xrayzebra

10-27-2008, 02:59 PM

So have millions of Americans over the years. That's why they amend it, genius.

So you want it amended again to provide for wealth distribution.

We could start now, you want to send me some money. Let me know I
will send you an address to send it to.:toast

JoeChalupa

10-27-2008, 03:00 PM

There he is!

JoeChalupa

10-27-2008, 03:01 PM

I've been working the election for 12 hours a day and I go to school. Plus I have another job...I'm not going to be around much until early voting ends on the 31st.

PS: I still think McCain is going to win. I don't have a doubt about it.

I have no doubt you do. And please tell me you are not working 12 hours a day working for McCain in TX. He has TX in the bag.

xrayzebra

10-27-2008, 03:02 PM

Joe, we still gotta do our thing one of these days.....

JoeChalupa

10-27-2008, 03:03 PM

Joe, we still gotta do our thing one of these days.....

I agree. :toast

ChumpDumper

10-27-2008, 03:05 PM

So you want it amended again to provide for wealth distribution.Nope.

RandomGuy

10-27-2008, 03:37 PM

All I got to say about Obama, he is what he is. [A] street thug...

...with a Harvard Law degree.

Good to see ya Ray, this place wouldn't be the same without ya.

DarkReign

10-27-2008, 04:11 PM

...with a Harvard Law degree.

Good to see ya Ray, this place wouldn't be the same without ya.

http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/barack-obama-bling-bling-25322.jpg

Peace and luv to all ma' Harvard bitches!

Im Robin Hood and up to no good
Takin from the rich, givin it to the hood
Dont know if I can or even if I could
But these crackas dont know even if they should

BHO up in this bitch
Harvard law degree done paid for my grits
Have no patience for elitist pricks,
Redneck racists or ignorant hicks.
Take yo money to get my kicks
So all you honkeys can suck my dick!

I says "Give me all yo money
so we poor folk can afford the honey
You have so much it aint funny

You never needed it, so why you gone trip?
Nigga, President BHO dont ever slip!

DarkReign

10-27-2008, 04:19 PM

...weak...

byrontx

10-27-2008, 07:43 PM

KenMcCoy must have a weak product if the profits are driven by sweatshop wages.

mouse

10-28-2008, 07:05 AM

When Bush got re-elected all you saw in this forum was a bunch of silly republicans laughing and posting stupid "ha ha, I told you so!" comments.

They was all over the forum like a bunch of crabs on the back of Madonnas ass.
And now that we are days away from payback brown brutha style they are MIA.. ..Just like Spur fans after a 5 game losing streak no where to be found.

Mr. Peabody

10-28-2008, 07:32 AM

I don't get why people won't work for $13 an hour. Have Americans become that greedy?

According to McCain, people won't pick lettuce for $50/hour.....

rWOZKeOauNI

Mr. Peabody

10-28-2008, 07:37 AM

smeagol

10-28-2008, 01:36 PM

:lmao @ people who complain about outsourcing jobs and don't see the bigger picture.

Isn't it time for mookie to give us his brilliant insight on the subject . . . ?

baseline bum

10-28-2008, 03:13 PM

:lmao @ people who complain about outsourcing jobs and don't see the bigger picture.

Isn't it time for mookie to give us his brilliant insight on the subject . . . ?

What's the bigger picture? That we should let our standard of living drop until it equals that of China and there will then be no need to outsource?

only1wwff

10-28-2008, 03:33 PM

JoeChalupa

10-28-2008, 03:56 PM

According to McCain, people won't pick lettuce for $50/hour.....

rWOZKeOauNI

Lettuce pray.

smeagol

10-28-2008, 05:48 PM

What's the bigger picture? That we should let our standard of living drop until it equals that of China and there will then be no need to outsource?

Unfortunately the US has become too rich for certain jobs to be perfomed within its borders. Especailly when there are other countries, poorer countries, that have a population that is willing to perform those jobs for 1/10th of what Americans want to earn.

xrayzebra

10-28-2008, 08:33 PM

What's the bigger picture? That we should let our standard of living drop until it equals that of China and there will then be no need to outsource?

Hell that is where Obama wants to take us. He even said China was
a much nicer country than ours, remember?