What, on the Spurstalk blogosphere, has startled you the most?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What has surprised you the most in the spurstalk world during this election season?


I have been most startled by the ongoing deluge of timvp political posts.

(Not that theres anything wrong with that.)

Honorable mention goes to whottt posting how black people don't even like Obama anymore and won't be voting for him.

[Shastafarian]

angelu_luv thinking it's possible Obama is the anti-christ. Hands down.

[Oh, Gee!!]

whottt and wild cobra getting stupider by the day. didn't think it could get worse, but it did--and does. daily.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This thread is a complete abortion until ChumpDumper posts a 4 word reply.

[Findog]

whottt and wild cobra getting stupider by the day. didn't think it could get worse, but it did--and does. daily.

There's a 1% part of me that thinks he could be right that the polls are oversampling Democrats and this is a tight race. About the same chance that McCain has of winning the election.

Tucker Carlson was on one of those screaming head shows and said "Everybody knows it's over except for paranoid and self-loathing Democrats." I hope he's right. For those of us that have opposed Bush at every turn, there's a part of us that always will feel like Charlie Brown lining up to kick the football.

[balli]

That anybody, even one person, is in support of Sarah Palin. It's one thing to have been a conservative and upon finding out what she was (a corrupt idiot, sound familiar?) to have disowned her. It's beyond me though, that anybody could possibly support this woman's candidacy or truly wish for her to serve in office. It's sickening really, you Palin apologists are the dregs of humanity, the American Taliban; fuck you all.

[PixelPusher]

The inpenetrability of the reality distortion field that surrounds whottt.

[ChumpDumper]

This thread is a complete abortion until ChumpDumper posts a 4 word reply.My brevity isn't startling.

[Warlord23]

Initially it was whottt and the ridiculous fantasy world he lives in, but he's overdone it. Same with Hornet, one too many loony takes.

It'd have to be Angel_luv and her Bible-thumping act. Tough to believe that such a nice girl is missing so many screws.

[timvp]

What has surprised you the most in the spurstalk world during this election season?The massive shift to the far left. In 2004, the political forum was W territory. Now anyone who thinks about voting for McCain is considered nutty. Radical far left ideals are usually praised, whereas four years ago those thoughts would be massively scoffed.

[whottt]

Hmmmm...the SpursKos poster that has startled me the most in recent weeks is Spurminator...by far.

I've generally considered him to be the smartest poster on this forum and he's definitely one of the most level headed, and I mean both of those comments sincerely...but he's definitely got a case of media driven PDS. He's been making a lot of what I consider to be out of character posts for him in the last couple of months. And no...it's not becuase he's supporting Obama...he's always been a slightly left leaning moderate IMO.

[InRareForm]

A gauntlet that one has to go thru when posting any slight liberal post.

[whottt]

The massive shift to the far left. In 2004, the political forum was W territory. Now anyone who thinks about voting for McCain is considered nutty. Radical far left ideals are usually praised, whereas four years ago those thoughts would be massively scoffed.


The lefties outnumbered the conservatives in 2004 as well.


Conservatives don't have the fanatacism to argue with the manic left...and the smart ones realize it accomplishes nothing...it's always been this way.

I argue...then again, I've been a lefty before.

Dude...take a look at the hardcore lefties on this forum...are any of them other than Chump over 30? And Chump's not that hardcore...

Random Guy may be over 30 but he's definitely a true liberal...

Most of them are guys in their early 20's, in College...young enough to where the brainwashing they got in college is still strong and they don't have a great deal of life experiences to overide their naivete and idealism...that's why Obama is going after them...


These leftis on this forum are not true liberals...they are genrally hate filled, antagonistic and obnoxious...they post deliberate mistruths and smears and they completely hate Republicans...that's not liberalism.

Most of them consider Mid-Easterners as savages etc and they every bit as bigoted and intolerant towards the religious views of the right as they claim the right is...in fact they more intolerant and bigoted. And they think calling themselves liberal somehow makes it ok or something.

That's the ignorance of youth...they won't be the way they are now in 10 years....well most of them won't...but some of them will be like boutons.

[boutons_]

"for McCain is considered nutty"

everything McSame, the Repugs, and the conservatives who got damn nearly everything they wanted these past 8 years has been demonstrated inarguably to result in the current, unnecessary financial disaster.

nutty for McSame? no, fucking stupid.

[Findog]

These leftis on this forum...they are genrally hate filled, antagonistic and obnoxious...they post deliberate mistruths and smears and they completely hate Republicans...that's not liberalism..


Classic projection.

[ElNono]

For the record, I'm 35 years old...

[whottt]

Classic projection.

Classic Dumbass ^^^^

I know I'm an asshole...what's funny is you think you aren't.

[ElNono]

Classic Dumbass ^^^^

I know I'm an asshole...what's funny is you think you aren't.

You're a clown... BIG difference.

[Kori Ellis]

What has surprised you the most in the spurstalk world during this election season?


I have been most startled by the ongoing deluge of timvp political posts.


Me too. He normally thinks that whoever is President doesn't really effect him personally - so he doesn't comment much on politics.

I think he just got bored from the lack of arguments in the Spurs forum in the offseason.

[ElNono]

I think Angel's revelation on her suspicions of Obama being the Anti-Christ really set the bar high, shattered records, brought new posters, etc. I think that's the winner.
The 'Manu doesnt believe in God' was pretty amusing too.

[Findog]

For the record, I'm 35 years old...

Being an Obama supporter makes you a "hardcore leftie" by definition. No doubt people on the far left end of the political spectrum are supporting either him, Cynthia McKinney or Nader, but you can't pull 50-52% of the vote with only a "hard-core leftie" coalition. I don't like Obama's stances on the 2nd Amendment or corporate taxes, and I think he's promising way more than he can realistically deliver.

In whottt's mind, if you don't support dumb fucking wars that shouldn't be fought, if you think Sarah Palin is unqualified for the office she seeks, and you don't want to see John McCain succeed George W. Bush when he has no major philosophical differences with the man on economics or foreign affairs, if you're tired of the GOP initiating bullshit culture wars and practicing wedge politics, then you're a brainwashed sheep and a "hardcore leftie." Jeezus! I'm a middle manager that doesn't even really like the smell of marijuana anymore. I like to relax by listening to "smooth jazz." And whottt probably thinks we're all of a bunch of dumbass college kids rocking out to Rage Against the Machine and sharing a hookah.

[Findog]

Classic Dumbass ^^^^

I know I'm an asshole...what's funny is you think you aren't.

I'm rude to people that can't exhibit common courtesy and respect to me. I don't have these kinds of contentious back and forths with timvp, who disagrees with me on a lot of things, because he doesn't personalize disagreements and lash out like a little bitch when somebody has the fucking gall to disagree with him.

I haven't been on this forum long enough to decide if you're this lacking in self-awareness or if you're just trolling and playing a character. Sometimes I feel like you're Andy Kaufman and we're just a bunch of gullible wrestling fans. I have a hard time accepting that you're for real.

[ElNono]

In whottt's mind, if you don't support dumb fucking wars that shouldn't be fought, if you think Sarah Palin is unqualified for the office she seeks, and you don't want to see John McCain succeed George W. Bush when he has no major philosophical differences with the man on economics or foreign affairs, if you're tired of the GOP initiating bullshit culture wars and practicing wedge politics, then you're a brainwashed sheep and a "hardcore leftie." Jeezus! I'm a middle manager that doesn't even really like the smell of marijuana anymore. I like to relax by listening to "smooth jazz." And whottt probably thinks we're all of a bunch of dumbass college kids rocking out to Rage Against the Machine and sharing a hookah.

If you're trying to somehow convince me that whottt is a complete clown, save your typing. Since the day he posted that memorable 'Why's everyone laughing?', I knew this guy was to be toyed with.

[only1wwff]

Jeezus! I'm a middle manager that doesn't even really like the smell of marijuana anymore. I like to relax by listening to "smooth jazz." And whottt probably thinks we're all of a bunch of dumbass college kids rocking out to Rage Against the Machine and sharing a hookah.


SMOOTH JAZZ!!!!???

[timvp]

Me too. He normally thinks that whoever is President doesn't really effect him personally - so he doesn't comment much on politics.I still think the role of the President is massively overrated by most people.


I think he just got bored from the lack of arguments in the Spurs forum in the offseason.Mostly it's because it's a fascinating point in time in the political world. It's been a pretty fun ride recently in the political forum. Although the bottomfeeders can become pretty damn annoying.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The massive shift to the far left. In 2004, the political forum was W territory. Now anyone who thinks about voting for McCain is considered nutty. Radical far left ideals are usually praised, whereas four years ago those thoughts would be massively scoffed.

It's like CBF has been saying. The pendulum is swinging so far to the left only because it was thrown so far to the right.

[only1wwff]

RIght now the most startling thing I can think of is that now the insurance companies are getting bailed out...wanna talk about bottomfeeders...

[Findog]

SMOOTH JAZZ!!!!???

Eh, not really. The Brian Jonestown Massacre is really the only band for me. God I love those motherfuckers:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hhsIyC5_a68&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hhsIyC5_a68&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o80pE90CAxI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o80pE90CAxI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[spurster]

The most surprising thing is that whottt decided to vote for McCain after much agonizing.

More seriously, it's been Extra Stout's turn to the left (well, at least the center). I've always depended on ES to get a sensible conservative view, now what do I do? I'm starting to feel that I'm right of the Spurstalk center.

[Nbadan]

My most startling isn't any poster - stay here long enough and you'll have seen it all, although Angle luv's revelation about believing Obama is the anti-christ breaks new ground in the 'I beleive' threshold.....my most startling is how so many people have seem to forgotten the most important lessons of the 00 and 04 general elections - wide spread e-voter fraud with vote switching, massive disenfranchisements in swing states, hell, even pulling out the state troopers in Florida to intimidate minorities on their way to the polls, and using the guise of 'national security' to close a very important polling place in Ohio in 04 for reasons that have never really been fully explained - Democrats and lose 'leaning left' need to remember those lessons and don't take for granted that anything is won until all the votes are counted and FAUX News has been forced to declare Obama the winner and the next President of the United States.....until then, anything can happen and that scares the hell out of me - especially because the future of so many powerful people and their 'legacy' or very freedom may lay on the balance of this election....

[boutons_]

"The most surprising thing is that whottt decided to vote for McCain after much agonizing."

shocking!! :lol

[whottt]

I'm rude to people that can't exhibit common courtesy and respect to me.

I don't have these kinds of contentious back and forths with timvp, who disagrees with me on a lot of things, because he doesn't personalize disagreements and lash out like a little bitch when somebody has the fucking gall to disagree with him.


You think I was talking about the nature of your arguments with me?


Denial indeed :lol








I haven't been on this forum long enough to decide if you're this lacking in self-awareness or if you're just trolling and playing a character.

Sometimes I feel like you're Andy Kaufman and we're just a bunch of gullible wrestling fans. I have a hard time accepting that you're for real.


Ya'll are hive...

[Findog]

You think I was talking about the nature of your arguments with me?


Denial indeed :lol


Nobody knows what you're talking about anymore. You're as hard to parse as Sarah Palin.

[ElNono]

Ya'll are hive...

Well, there's certainly no doubt you're 'different'...

[Anti.Hero]

I grew up in the internet age. Nothing startles me!

[whottt]

Nobody knows what you're talking about anymore.

I know...the inability of you guys to comprehend simple statements is probably more annoying to me than it is to you...

Nontheless, that's your limit...not mine. I very seldom have that problem with anyone.



You're as hard to parse as Sarah Palin.

Regardless of how difficult she may be to parse...she's very easy to understand.

[Tully365]

Eh, not really. The Brian Jonestown Massacre is really the only band for me. God I love those motherfuckers:


You scared me there for a second with the cool jazz joke. Whew.

I saw BJM last year at a small club in Tucson and it was a really good show, but there were three or four guys in the audience who kept yelling out things in between songs, trying to bait the singer, who's temper is as legendary as McCain's!

After the show, I went to an afterhours party and half the band showed up, and unfortunately behaved like annoying L.A. hipsters.

[Findog]

You scared me there for a second with the cool jazz joke. Whew.

I saw BJM last year at a small club in Tucson and it was a really good show, but there were three or four guys in the audience who kept yelling out things in between songs, trying to bait the singer, who's temper is as legendary as McCain's!

After the show, I went to an afterhours party and half the band showed up, and unfortunately behaved like annoying L.A. hipsters.

Yeah, ever since Dig! people want to bait Anton. And given how rarely he plays in the US anymore, there's a good chance he'll either put on a great show or show up drunk and quit playing after 3 songs.

This is what Tully is talking about, for anybody who cares:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jSm5optFVUw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jSm5optFVUw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[LnGrrrR]

angelu_luv thinking it's possible Obama is the anti-christ. Hands down.

+666

[LnGrrrR]

These leftis on this forum are not true liberals...they are genrally hate filled, antagonistic and obnoxious...they post deliberate mistruths and smears and they completely hate Republicans...that's not liberalism.

Yeah. Those damn hate filled liberals. Like Bachmann, the congressman who called right-wingers "anti-American". Or the VP of the Democratic party, calling out "Real America" and implying that the other side isn't patriotic.

Man, all this hate is working me up! I guess I'll listen to some calm words from Rush Limbaugh.

[LnGrrrR]

SMOOTH JAZZ!!!!???

You know, as opposed to hardcore jazz. :D

[baseline bum]

DPG ragging on Manu for saying he wasn't a believer, making a case he should be more PC, and then denying it all.

[DarkReign]

Palin surpised me and continues to surprise me.

I hadnt realized so many Americans are as easily taken as that. Supporting McCain, I understand. Supporting Obama, I understand.

Supporting Palin is and wil always be a mystery I will never solve. Hopefully, I'll never have to.

[only1wwff]

Palin surpised me and continues to surprise me.

I hadnt realized so many Americans are as easily taken as that. Supporting McCain, I understand. Supporting Obama, I understand.

Supporting Palin is and wil always be a mystery I will never solve. Hopefully, I'll never have to.

it's a loyalty thing. She's connected to McCain now and if she goes down...so does he...and by default the party...

[DarrinS]

That I actually voted for Obama.


That the best candidates this country could produce are two left-of-center, borderline socialist candidates.


That the Republican candidate who claims to be a cost-cutter offered to buy all the bad mortgages.

[ploto]

As always- politics makes strange bedfellows.

[TheMadHatter]

That I actually voted for Obama.


That the best candidates this country could produce are two left-of-center, borderline socialist candidates.


That the Republican candidate who claims to be a cost-cutter offered to buy all the bad mortgages.

You don't even fucking know what socialism is you dumb shit.


Economically, socialism denotes an economic system of state ownership and / or worker ownership of the means of production and distribution. In the U.S.S.R., state ownership of the means of production was combined with central planning – what goods and services to make and provide, how they were to be produced, the quantities, and the sale prices (cf. Economy of the Soviet Union). Soviet economic planning was an alternative to allowing the market (supply and demand) to determine prices and production. During the Great Depression, socialists considered Soviet-style planned economies the remedy to Capitalism's inherent flaws – monopoly, business cycles, unemployment, unequally distributed wealth, and the economic exploitation of workers.

In the West, neoclassical liberal economists, e.g. Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, said that socialist planned economies would fail, because planners could not have the business information inherent to a market economy (cf. economic calculation problem), nor would managers in Soviet-style socialist economies match the motivation of profit.

Consequent to Soviet economic stagnation in the 1970s and 1980s, socialists began to accept parts of their critique. Polish economist Oskar Lange, an early proponent of "market socialism", proposed a Central Planning Board establishing prices and controls of investment. The prices of producer goods would be determined through trial and error. The prices of consumer goods would be determined by supply and demand, with the supply coming from state-owned firms that would set their prices equal to the marginal cost, as in perfectly competitive markets. The Central Planning Board would distribute a "social dividend" to ensure reasonable income equality.[53]

In Western Europe, particularly in the period after World War II, many socialist parties in government implemented what became known as mixed economies.[54] These governments nationalised major and economically vital industries while permitting a free market to continue in the rest. These were most often monopolistic or infrastructural industries like mail, railways, power and other utilities. In some instances a number of small, competing and often relatively poorly financed companies in the same sector were nationalised to form one government monopoly for the purpose of competent management, of economic rescue (in the UK, British Leyland, Rolls Royce), or of competing on the world market.[55] Typically, this was achieved through compulsory purchase of the industry (i.e. with compensation). For example in the UK the nationalization of the coal mines in 1947 created a coal board charged with running the coal industry commercially so as to be able to meet the interest payable on the bonds which the former mine owners' shares had been converted into.[56][57]

Some socialists propose various decentralized, worker-managed economic systems. One such system is the "cooperative economy," a largely free market economy in which workers manage the firms and democratically determine remuneration levels and labor divisions. Productive resources would be legally owned by the cooperative and rented to the workers, who would enjoy usufruct rights.[58] Another, more recent, variant is "participatory economics," wherein the economy is planned by decentralized councils of workers and consumers. Workers would be remunerated solely according to effort and sacrifice, so that those engaged in dangerous, uncomfortable, and strenuous work would receive the highest incomes and could thereby work less.[59] Some Marxists and Anarcho-communists also propose a worker managed economy based on workers councils, however unlike participatory economics in Anarcho communism workers are remunerated according to their needs (which are largely self determined in an anarcho communist system). Recently socialists have also been working with the Technocracy movement to promote such concepts as Energy Accounting.[citation needed]

[DarrinS]

You don't even fucking know what socialism is you dumb shit.



Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved

[TheMadHatter]

Even Obama's health care plan is nothing like socialism. He merely wants to extend coverage and lower premiums, those who have existing plans can keep them.

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with Democratic Socialism as instituted in Canada and the UK. I wish people would do their research before dismissing whole movements and ideas. Ask anyone from Canada or the UK if they would like to trade their healthcare system for a privatized system like we have. Not one of them would do that trade.

[TheMadHatter]

Again, nothing McCain nor Obama are offering even remotely comes close to what real socialism is. You're simply an idiot conservative who has listened to talk radio and Sean Hannity and now believes socialism is evil.

[sook]

BRhornet trying to convince people he's really black when he's a pasty faced racist mormon kid.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

boutons and his hatred for McCain.

I never saw that coming.


Close second to angel equating Obama to the anti-Christ. Obama's going to be a disaster for this country should he win, but calling him the anti-Christ is definitely out there.

[Shastafarian]

boutons and his hatred for McCain.

I never saw that coming.


Close second to angel equating Obama to the anti-Christ. Obama's going to be a disaster for this country should he win, but calling him the anti-Christ is definitely out there.

Is it out there to call you Nostradamus?

[Findog]

Obama's going to be a disaster for this country should he win, but calling him the anti-Christ is definitely out there.

Okay, I know that your political views would be more at home at Free Republic, but please explain to me in what way Obama would be a disaster above and beyond what we've seen from Bush. Bush fought an unnecessary war founded on lies, he presided over the biggest expansion of government this country has ever seen, he let a major American city drown on his watch, he failed to avenge 9/11, he put the regulatory agencies in the hands of the people they were supposed to regulate, he rejected science and doing anything about climate change in the name of pandering to his base and polluters, he didn't do anything about the credit default swaps that led to the current economic crisis. How could going back to Clintonian competence be worse for the country than Bush?

[boutons_]

"boutons and his hatred for McCain.

I never saw that coming."

because you're as aggie-dumb as you are dickless

[BRHornet45]

BRhornet trying to convince people he's really black when he's a pasty faced racist mormon kid.

LOL at you yet again son! you dickless clown!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Is angel-Lov really that redneck to where she called Obama the anti-christ? i thought you all were exaggerating but is there a link where she actually said this?

[Shastafarian]

Is angel-Lov really that redneck to where she called Obama the anti-christ? i thought you all were exaggerating but is there a link where she actually said this?

It's in the "Your Vote, Your Reasons" thread. She said it was possible.

[ElNono]

Is angel-Lov really that redneck to where she called Obama the anti-christ? i thought you all were exaggerating but is there a link where she actually said this?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2838653&postcount=13

[only1wwff]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2838653&postcount=13


oh shit...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

whhhhoaaaah.....what a crazy.....

*******Obama haters**************

With the way the McCain campaign has been attacking Obama...pallin' around with terrorists kinda personal shit....and knowing that easily impressionable plebes were possibly saying this guy is the anti-christ like five weeks ago....how would you feel if something seriously heinous happened to Obama due to an impressionable KKK or neo nazi member?

Don't you understand how much shit would hit the fan in this country? Do you republicans want a war? You will get a war if something godforsaken like that ever happens. And there will be nothing but fuel to add to the fire after the way McCain has been attacking Barack these past couple of weeks.

War, i said..

[sook]

Is angel-Lov really that redneck to where she called Obama the anti-christ? i thought you all were exaggerating but is there a link where she actually said this?

she basically said, " I have a gut feeling about him that i can't explain" + some stuff about how his name makes her suspicious

The way she said it made you feel like she is scared of black people and can't realize it.

[sook]

LOL at you yet again son! you dickless clown!

someone's cool....not hornet! :wakeup

[Spurminator]

but he's definitely got a case of media driven PDS. He's been making a lot of what I consider to be out of character posts for him in the last couple of months.

Like what?

[ChumpDumper]

boutons and his hatred for McCain.

I never saw that coming.


Close second to angel equating Obama to the anti-Christ. Obama's going to be a disaster for this country should he win, but calling him the anti-Christ is definitely out there.Yeah, your Hitler comparisons are the very acme of nuance.

[Duff McCartney]

she basically said, " I have a gut feeling about him that i can't explain" + some stuff about how his name makes her suspicious

The way she said it made you feel like she is scared of black people and can't realize it.

I don't think she's scared of blacks because she's part black herself. But she's a fucking whacko. Those thoughts make Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly seem normal to me.

[RandomGuy]

What has surprised you the most in the spurstalk world during this election season?


I have been most startled by the ongoing deluge of timvp political posts.

(Not that theres anything wrong with that.)

Honorable mention goes to whottt posting how black people don't even like Obama anymore and won't be voting for him.

That a Basketball team's main fan site would have a lively politcal forum worth a shit.

This is fun.

[RandomGuy]

Yeah. Those damn hate filled liberals. Like Bachmann, the congressman who called right-wingers "anti-American". Or the VP of the Democratic party, calling out "Real America" and implying that the other side isn't patriotic.

Man, all this hate is working me up! I guess I'll listen to some calm words from Rush Limbaugh.

actually bachman was a woman who called left-wingers "anti-american".

I think that was what you meant.

[ChumpDumper]

That a Basketball team's main fan site would have a lively politcal forum worth a shit.

This is fun."Lively" I'll agree with.

[LnGrrrR]

actually bachman was a woman who called left-wingers "anti-american".

I think that was what you meant.

Sorry, I forgot to put the /snark at the end of my post :)

[RandomGuy]

Random Guy may be over 30 but he's definitely a true liberal...

I am indeed over 30. And getting more liberal as I get older.

[The Reckoning]

that cbf actually started a thread in the politics forum.
and that 95% of discussion is about presidential candidates

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I don't know Whottt, I self identify as a hard core lefty--am I really all that bad?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"boutons and his hatred for McCain.

I never saw that coming."

because you're as aggie-dumb as you are dickless

:lol , you sure missed the sarcasm in my original post. Fucking idiot.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Okay, I know that your political views would be more at home at Free Republic, but please explain to me in what way Obama would be a disaster above and beyond what we've seen from Bush. Bush fought an unnecessary war founded on lies, he presided over the biggest expansion of government this country has ever seen, he let a major American city drown on his watch, he failed to avenge 9/11, he put the regulatory agencies in the hands of the people they were supposed to regulate, he rejected science and doing anything about climate change in the name of pandering to his base and polluters, he didn't do anything about the credit default swaps that led to the current economic crisis. How could going back to Clintonian competence be worse for the country than Bush?

Bush has been a disaster. I freely admit that. Last I checked, he was not running against Obama next week. My fears about Obama? Let's see...

1) He's not Clintonian in any way, so spare me.

2) Anti-second amendment.

3) Anti-first amendment.

4) He's a socialist. His policies and platforms are, whether you want to agree with them or argue over the definition of socialism or not.

5) This country is in a mess economically, and his tax plans will do nothing to fix that, instead they'll lead to more job loss.

6) The fact he comically says 95% of Americans will get a tax cut when 40% don't even pay any taxes. Misleading at best, but let's call a spade a spade - he's calling tax cuts what will be tax credits (i.e., a 'refund' check from the government) that are really welfare/wealth redistribution checks.

It sets a dangerous precedent in our country, and one that is entirely un-American.

If you need more than that, I have a hard time entrusting this country to someone with no executive leadership of any kind. Hasn't authored major legislation, seems all too happy to not take a stance but instead Monday Morning QB everything after it succeeds or fails, I could go on and on.

On a macro level, I think everyone in D.C. sucks ass but the least amount of damage to our country seems to be done when Congress and the Presidency reside with different parties. Having Obama in the WH, with Reid and Pelosi possibly presiding over a filibusterproof Senate and heavily Democratic House of Reps scares the hell out of me, and should scare the hell out of everyone in this country with a brain.

[Findog]

He's a socialist. His policies and platforms are, whether you want to agree with them or argue over the definition of socialism or not.

No, you're wrong. Socialism is when the government owns the means of production. That's the correct definition of socialism. The recent bank bailout would be an example of partial socialism.


Here, this says it better than I can:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/11/03/081103taco_talk_hertzberg



he Republican argument of the moment seems to be that the difference between capitalism and socialism corresponds to the difference between a top marginal income-tax rate of 35 per cent and a top marginal income-tax rate of 39.6 per cent. The latter is what it would be under Obama’s proposal, what it was under President Clinton, and, for that matter, what it will be after 2010 if President Bush’s tax cuts expire on schedule. Obama would use some of the added revenue to give a break to pretty much everybody who nets less than a quarter of a million dollars a year. The total tax burden on the private economy would be somewhat lighter than it is now—a bit of elementary Keynesianism that renders doubly untrue the Republican claim that Obama “will raise your taxes.”

On October 12th, in conversation with a voter forever to be known as Joe the Plumber, Obama gave one of his fullest summaries of his tax plan. After explaining how Joe could benefit from it, whether or not he achieves his dream of owning his own plumbing business, Obama added casually, “I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.” McCain and Palin have been quoting this remark ever since, offering it as prima-facie evidence of Obama’s unsuitability for office. Of course, all taxes are redistributive, in that they redistribute private resources for public purposes. But the federal income tax is (downwardly) redistributive as a matter of principle: however slightly, it softens the inequalities that are inevitable in a market economy, and it reflects the belief that the wealthy have a proportionately greater stake in the material aspects of the social order and, therefore, should give that order proportionately more material support. McCain himself probably shares this belief, and there was a time when he was willing to say so. During the 2000 campaign, on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” a young woman asked him why her father, a doctor, should be “penalized” by being “in a huge tax bracket.” McCain replied that “wealthy people can afford more” and that “the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don’t pay nearly as much as you think they do.” The exchange continued:


YOUNG WOMAN: Are we getting closer and closer to, like, socialism and stuff?. . .
MCCAIN: Here’s what I really believe: That when you reach a certain level of comfort, there’s nothing wrong with paying somewhat more.


I don't know that tossing around "socialism" is such a good strategy. Sweden has it pretty good. Western Europe aint exactly North Korea.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sweden also tops out their individual income tax rates at 60%. Not exactly my idea of a great America.

[Findog]

Sweden also tops out their individual income tax rates at 60%. Not exactly my idea of a great America.

It's a matter of personal preference, but in America, when you toss around words like "socialism," most people lazily think of the USSR. Sweden is what socialism really is. Maybe not your favorite country, but hardly a hellhole.

[Kamnik]

It's a matter of personal preference, but in America, when you toss around words like "socialism," most people lazily think of the USSR. Sweden is what socialism really is. Maybe not your favorite country, but hardly a hellhole.

+1

Sweden (and other Scandinavian countries) is one of the best countries in the world when looking how an average person lives...

[101A]

The fact that Obama said this:


We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.'

and the liberals, who SO fear wiretapping and the Patriot Act, don't care.

[DarkReign]

The fact that Obama said this:



and the liberals, who SO fear wiretapping and the Patriot Act, don't care.

link please. Seriously...

[byrontx]

Like Randomguy, I find myself getting more liberal as the years go by. Age 54, entrepreneur and, now, a getting-more-liberal Democrat.

[101A]

link please. Seriously...

Tt2yGzHfy7s

[doobs]

It's a matter of personal preference, but in America, when you toss around words like "socialism," most people lazily think of the USSR. Sweden is what socialism really is. Maybe not your favorite country, but hardly a hellhole.

Sweden is the way it is in large part because of America's presence and commitment to Europe. It's how socialism works when subsidized by a capitalist economy. It must be nice to not have to spend any money on national defense . . .

If America abandoned Europe, the Scandinavian "social democracy" model would wither away.

[implacable44]

I am amazed at the amount of people in this great country who support the far liberal left. I am amazed that the Communist goals from 1963 have all but come to pass - http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm that we could be so weak as a nation to allow such a transformation from the Constitution and the what the founding fathers fought and died for - sacrificed their lives, wealth and families for -- to what we are faced with today. How far we have fallen. How weak we have become as a nation. Totally unbelievable to me.

Good thing I hit the store this week and bought my Glock .45 and my .308 lever action to add to my collection before the HUGE tax is placed on guns.

Go Nobama -- bankrupt the coal industry -- that will do wonders for our economy -- and put that Cap and Trade in place.. that will also really help Americans!

[clambake]

refusing to accept the abuses of the last 8 years takes courage.

[implacable44]

refusing to accept the abuses of the last 8 years takes courage.

You mean the abuses of the last 80+ years.

[101A]

refusing to accept the abuses of the last 8 years takes courage.

Allowing those abuses to blind oneself to sound judgment and reason takes the mental capacity and instinctive response of a 2 year old throwing a fit.

I am not amazed that many people still support Sarah Palin - by the time she came on the scene I was already witnessing a similar astounding infatuation with a relatively unknown political figure.

[PixelPusher]

The fact that Obama said this:


We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.'

and the liberals, who SO fear wiretapping and the Patriot Act, don't care.

Am I to take it that the prospect of an Obama presidency has suddenly awakened you from 8 years of apathy and derision on the topic? Wow, I so didn't see that coming... :rolleyes

[101A]

Am I to take it that the prospect of an Obama presidency has suddenly awakened you from 8 years of apathy and derision on the topic? Wow, I so didn't see that coming... :rolleyes


I'm sorry; I missed where Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or McCain wanted to set aside half a trillion dollars annually for a police force to keep the peace within our own shores.

[PixelPusher]

I'm sorry; I missed where Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or McCain wanted to set aside half a trillion dollars annually for a police force to keep the peace within our own shores.

I see, it's not specifics like the Patriot Act, warrentless wiretapping (loved the story about agents getting off on listening to American-on-American phone sex calls, btw) or the OKing of torture for anyone deemed a terrorist suspect...it's the FUNDING that scares the shit out of you. :lol

You really are a Republican, through and through.

[101A]

I see, it's not specifics like the Patriot Act, warrentless wiretapping (loved the story about agents getting off on listening to American-on-American phone sex calls, btw) or the OKing of torture for anyone deemed a terrorist suspect...it's the FUNDING that scares the shit out of you. :lol

You really are a Republican, through and through.

I am a Conservative; I am a registered Independent.

I voted for "Joe the Plumber" - and I've said so in several threads.

If you can't see the difference between a STANDING ARMY within our borders, and Federal Agents listening to phone sex, well, O.K.

[implacable44]

I see, it's not specifics like the Patriot Act, warrentless wiretapping (loved the story about agents getting off on listening to American-on-American phone sex calls, btw) or the OKing of torture for anyone deemed a terrorist suspect...it's the FUNDING that scares the shit out of you. :lol

You really are a Republican, through and through.

wiretapping and the Patriot Act ? Are you aware of the things Woodrow Wilson did during his terms in office ? Obviously not....

[clambake]

Allowing those abuses to blind oneself to sound judgment and reason takes the mental capacity and instinctive response of a 2 year old throwing a fit.

I am not amazed that many people still support Sarah Palin - by the time she came on the scene I was already witnessing a similar astounding infatuation with a relatively unknown political figure.

you can't put "sound judgement" and "sarah palin" in the same post.

and you act like your life will turn upside down. you and i know thats just an act.

[PixelPusher]

wiretapping and the Patriot Act ? Are you aware of the things Woodrow Wilson did during his terms in office ? Obviously not....

Yes, I did, actually. That's why I'm not voting for Woodrow Wilson in this election.

[101A]

you can't put "sound judgement" and "sarah palin" in the same post.

and you act like your life will turn upside down. you and i know thats just an act.


Gotta have my fun.

The quote about a national security force, however, does give me pause.

Any of you Obamaicans know wtf he is talking about?

[implacable44]

but you can put Obama and sound judgment together ? I mean he is a great judge of character with his known relationships..

[implacable44]

Yes, I did, actually. That's why I'm not voting for Woodrow Wilson in this election.

yeah -- you pretty much are -- only this version of Woodrow Wilson will allow blacks to apply at Princeton and probably won't support segregation of federal facilities.

[boutons_]

"I missed where Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or McCain wanted to set aside half a trillion dollars annually for a police force to keep the peace within our own shores."

Then you missed the DHS build-up (of unknown effectiveness), combined with US military being stationed and committed to domestic crowd control (posse commitatus gutted), the FBI deputizing 25K local law enforcement/mercenaries, and coss of thorough militarization of local law enforcement. And throw in the conservative's punitive commitment to incarcerating non-violent drug offenders at $25K-$40K/year each in order to subsidize prison guards and corps like CCA.

[implacable44]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=69601

[PixelPusher]

yeah -- you pretty much are -- only this version of Woodrow Wilson will allow blacks to apply at Princeton and probably won't support segregation of federal facilities.

As always, I take your foaming-at-the-mouth Red Scare analysis with all the care and diligence it requires.

[clambake]

The quote about a national security force, however, does give me pause.

why don't you expand on this?

because something gives angel luv pause.

what do you got in your head about it?

[101A]

what do you got in your head about it?

What you THINK I've got in my head; but that is not reasonable; which I fully admit.

SO, I don't know what to think. Did Obama misspeak? It's not a question about what I have in MY head; what did he have in HIS head when he suggested we ought to have a security force, AS POWERFUL as our military - in this country?

I don't know; and he hasn't said it since.

Now, if Cheney had ever said that, I'm betting we would have heard more about it.

[PixelPusher]

Gotta have my fun.

The quote about a national security force, however, does give me pause.

Any of you Obamaicans know wtf he is talking about?

It could mean he wants to form a liberal Gestapo charged with rounding up all of Sarah Palin's "real" Americans into a re-education camp...or it could just be a typically vague pre-election fundraising speech, and all he's really after is more funding for nuke detection at ports. I vote based on personality and temperment, not stated campaign speeches. After all, if I took everything a Presidential candidate said as gospel, I would have had to vote for the 2000 candidate who said this:


"If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us; if we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us. And our nation stands alone right now in the world in terms of power, and that's why we've got to be humble, and yet project strength in a way that promotes freedom."

"I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be. We can help. And maybe it's just our difference in government, the way we view government. I mean I want to empower people. I want to help people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I just don't think it's the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, we do it this way, so should you."

...and we all know how that turned out, don't we?

[Spurminator]

He's talking about his community service initiatives.

Here's a column on it, and it's by no means in favor of the idea, but a key quote for anyone who is taking the worst case interpretation of the statement:


The entire plan is breathtaking in its scope. But it does not, as at least one internet writer has suggested, portend a "giant police force." It would be easier to rebut if it did. As it is, it's silly stuff born of naively fanciful dreams.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/obamas_civilian_national_secur.html

[101A]

It could mean he wants to form a liberal Gestapo charged with rounding up all of Sarah Palin's "real" Americans into a re-education camp...or it could just be a typically vague pre-election fundraising speech, and all he's really after is more funding for nuke detection at ports. I vote based on personality and temperment, not stated campaign speeches. After all, if I took everything a Presidential candidate said as gospel, I would have had to vote for the 2000 candidate who said this:



...and we all know how that turned out, don't we?


Yes, let's let this thread devolve into a discussion of 9/11, - lies getting us into Iraq; hell why don't we bring up Monica Lewinski while we're at it. We've never had a thread about that before.

The speaches are meaningless?

What the candidates are saying doesn't matter.

Then you think what Obama says and what he is going to do could be completely different.

You sound like Sean Hannity.

[101A]

He's talking about his community service initiatives.

Here's a column on it, and it's by no means in favor of the idea, but a key quote for anyone who is taking the worst case interpretation of the statement:



http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/obamas_civilian_national_secur.html


He said "National Security Force" but meant "Community Service Initiatives"?

I've probably led too sheltered of a life. Maybe he speaking ebonics or something. It gets lost in the translation.

[PixelPusher]

Yes, let's let this thread devolve into a discussion of 9/11, - lies getting us into Iraq; hell why don't we bring up Monica Lewinski while we're at it. We've never had a thread about that before.

The speaches are meaningless?

What the candidates are saying doesn't matter.

Then you think what Obama says and what he is going to do could be completely different.

You sound like Sean Hannity.
I think every President-elect has a plan, and then the very first thing they do when they step into the Oval Office is get punched in the mouth.

[clambake]

Now, if Cheney had ever said that, I'm betting we would have heard more about it.

not from him. he would've said "fuck you" and "i don't care".

[clambake]

Maybe he speaking ebonics or something.

and there you have it ladies and gentlemen. you can't keep that shit caged up forever. :lol

[implacable44]

and there you have it ladies and gentlemen. you can't keep that shit caged up forever. :lol

why is that funny ? I guess you are implying racism ? bigotry ? -- typical..

[101A]

and there you have it ladies and gentlemen. you can't keep that shit caged up forever. :lol

Keep what caged up?

Clever, racially tinged humor?

Guilty.

[LnGrrrR]

101A,

Oh snap! You one crazy cracker! You're one funny honky!

Racially tinged, yes. Clever... eh, debatable.

[implacable44]

101A,

Oh snap! You one crazy cracker! You're one funny honky!

Racially tinged, yes. Clever... eh, debatable.

only minorities speak ebonics ? and aren't you racially tinged with your reply?

[Shastafarian]

only minorities speak ebonics ? and aren't you racially tinged with your reply?

smh

[LnGrrrR]

only minorities speak ebonics ? and aren't you racially tinged with your reply?

:bang:bang:bang:bang

[DarkReign]

only minorities speak ebonics ? and aren't you racially tinged with your reply?

I used to think BRHornets was the most ignorant member here.

You my friend, take the tiara home on this one. Youre a real piece of work.

Why dont you go dig a hole in the ground and climb in while you wait for the end of the world, eh? I mean it isnt that much different than having your head in the sand for your entire life, now is it?

[implacable44]

so does that mean only minorities speak ebonics as you understand it ? I mean if you go off of the original intent on the meaning of the word - then it only applys to African Americans ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

but does the urban understanding only encompass the color of the skin ? Can a white boy copy the urban hip hop black guy - adopt his mannerisms and speech ? Will he be speaking Ebonics or is it just stupid English if one is white ?

[Shastafarian]

so does that mean only minorities speak ebonics ?

He still doesn't get it.

[DarkReign]

so does that mean only minorities speak ebonics ?

What kind of dumb-fuck, ignorant question is that?

What next, do only Chinese people speak Chinese?

Is this your idea of intelligence, or did you study under Elmer Fudd himself?

[Oh, Gee!!]

I used to think BRHornets was the most ignorant member here.

You my friend, take the tiara home on this one. Youre a real piece of work.

Why dont you go dig a hole in the ground and climb in while you wait for the end of the world, eh? I mean it isnt that much different than having your head in the sand for your entire life, now is it?

dang, he must be really stupid to get this response from you. you're normally more diplomatic

[Spurminator]

He said "National Security Force" but meant "Community Service Initiatives"?

I've probably led too sheltered of a life. Maybe he speaking ebonics or something. It gets lost in the translation.

It really makes plenty of sense if you read the article.

[DarkReign]

dang, he must be really stupid to get this response from you. you're normally more diplomatic

I honestly dont think he would "get it" if I used my more subtle powers of degradation.

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=69601
I thought Democrats generally believed the U.S. spent too much on the military. How is it possible their candidate is seeking to create some kind of massive but secret national police force that will be even bigger than the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force put together?It's so secret, he publicly announced it.

[Shastafarian]

so does that mean only minorities speak ebonics as you understand it ? I mean if you go off of the original intent on the meaning of the word - then it only applys to African Americans ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

but does the urban understanding only encompass the color of the skin ? Can a white boy copy the urban hip hop black guy - adopt his mannerisms and speech ? Will he be speaking Ebonics or is it just stupid English if one is white ?

He STILL doesn't get it.

[PixelPusher]

It really makes plenty of sense if you read the article.

Because it came from "American Thinker" I had to double check to make sure that particular blogger wasn't the same guy who wrote this. (http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html)

[Spurminator]

Because it came from "American Thinker" I had to double check to make sure that particular blogger wasn't the same guy who wrote this. (http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html)

Yeah, like I said, not a pro-Obama piece by any means but at least it gives a somewhat fair representation of what he's proposing. Rare these days.

[101A]

It really makes plenty of sense if you read the article.

Yeah, kind of; still don't understand the choice of words exactly.

and, damn, there is some thin skin bumping around.

Gonna be like this for the duration of the Obama presidency?

Tired of it already.

[101A]

Yeah, like I said, not a pro-Obama piece by any means but at least it gives a somewhat fair representation of what he's proposing. Rare these days.

That's true; however the reality of it is nearly as scary as a national police force to those of us with limited govt. sensibilities.

[Oh, Gee!!]

those of us with limited govt. sensibilities.

:lol:lol:lol after 8 years of dubya, can you honestly claim that with a straight face?

[PixelPusher]

:lol:lol:lol after 8 years of dubya, can you honestly claim that with a straight face?

By claiming to be a "pure" conservative, and thus not to be held responsible for the excesses of Republicans and other pretenders to the conservative faith.

[101A]

:lol:lol:lol after 8 years of dubya, can you honestly claim that with a straight face?


One of the reason for Bush's historic low approval ratings is because fiscal conservatives do not answer "yes" when asked if he is doing a good job.

It is going to be nice to hang EVERYTHING Obama does on everybody who voted for him for the next howevermany years. It sure makes "debating" easy, if somewhat lazy.

[Oh, Gee!!]

By claiming to be a "pure" conservative, and thus not to be held responsible for the excesses of Republicans and other pretenders to the conservative faith.

and still voting republican every chance he gets.

[101A]

and still voting republican every chance you get.

Again; didn't vote for McCain.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Again; didn't vote for McCain.

sure--we believe you. :rolleyes

[PixelPusher]

Again; didn't vote for McCain.

That's right, you voted for quintessential symbol of REAL America, "Joe the Plumber"...who's actually Sam the contractor who doesn't have a plumbing license, gets his election "research" from email chain letters, and is mighty pissed off at the extra taxes he'd have to pay for his make-believe quarter of a million plus income.

God Bless America.

[101A]

sure--we believe you. :rolleyes

So -THIS is the nature of discourse now?

I think 101A believes THIS.

101A says he doesn't.

So I think 101A DOES THIS.

101A says he doesn't.

I think 101A is lying.

Damn, this is fun!

[Oh, Gee!!]

So -THIS is the nature of discourse now?

I think 101A believes THIS.

101A says he doesn't.

So I think 101A DOES THIS.

101A says he doesn't.

I think 101A is lying.

Damn, this is fun!

just admit you're a die-hard republican. stop pretending to be an independent, or a libertarian. yoni has that market cornered already.

[101A]

That's right, you voted for quintessential symbol of REAL America, "Joe the Plumber"...who's actually Sam the contractor who doesn't have a plumbing license, gets his election "research" from email chain letters, and is mighty pissed off at the extra taxes he'd have to pay for his make-believe quarter of a million plus salary.

God Bless America.


Amazing how much you know about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.

[LnGrrrR]

Amazing how much you know about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.

Go internets! Honestly, that's why I think the idea of privacy inherent to everyone will soon go the way of the dodo in 50 years time or so.

[PixelPusher]

Amazing how much you know about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.

You can thank John McCain in the 3rd debate for that.

And don't cry for Joe "shows for every press conference and (almost) every McCain campaign stop" the Plumber...he's already lined up for a book deal.

Ironically, there's nothing make-believe about the 15% his agent will take.

[101A]

just admit you're a die-hard republican. stop pretending to be an independent, or a libertarian. yoni has that market cornered already.

Never claimed to be a libertarian. Never claimed to be open-minded for that matter. This is the first year (been voting since '88) I have not voted for the Republican candidate for President, and I made that decision when McCain voted for the bailout.

[implacable44]

Amazing how much you know about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.

amazing that liberals and the media make Joe the PLumber the focal point - when the point should be what Obama said. the plumber isn't runnig for office - he was outside playing catch with his son and asked a simple question to which Obama revealed his desire to redistribute the wealth. That is the issue - I could care less about Joe.

[101A]

You can thank John McCain in the 3rd debate for that.

And don't cry for Joe "shows for every press conference and (almost) every McCain campaign stop" the Plumber...he's already lined up for a book deal.

Ironically, there's nothing make-believe about the 15% his agent will take.

Did I say I was crying for Joe?

Dude has made the most of his 15 minutes. Ironically, now he probably will get to pay some of that 39% rate.

[101A]

amazing that liberals and the media make Joe the PLumber the focal point - when the point should be what Obama said. the plumber isn't runnig for office - he was outside playing catch with his son and asked a simple question to which Obama revealed his desire to redistribute the wealth. That is the issue - I could care less about Joe.

Personalize.

Attack.

Don't debate the issues.

(however, that is BOTH parties playbook these days)

[Oh, Gee!!]

amazing that liberals and the media make Joe the PLumber the focal point - when the point should be what Obama said. the plumber isn't runnig for office -

so the media is inviting joe to campaign for mccain? the media asked mccain to refer to joe a dozen times or more in the 3rd debate? the media asked mccain to bring up joe's name at every rally and campaign stop?

[Shastafarian]

amazing that liberals and the media make Joe the PLumber the focal point - when the point should be what Obama said. the plumber isn't runnig for office - he was outside playing catch with his son and asked a simple question to which Obama revealed his desire to redistribute the wealth. That is the issue - I could care less about Joe.

So you care about Joe. Thanks for clearing that up.

[PixelPusher]

Did I say I was crying for Joe?

Dude has made the most of his 15 minutes. Ironically, now he probably will get to pay some of that 39% rate.

A blessed fortune, forever tainted by an extra 3%.

Oh, the gut-churning tragedy of it all...

[implacable44]

So you care about Joe. Thanks for clearing that up.

No I am saying I COULD care less -- everytime I hear his name I care less and less about him because it detracts from the real issue more and more.

[Shastafarian]

No I am saying I COULD care less -- everytime I hear his name I care less and less about him because it detracts from the real issue more and more.

LOL

Say this very slowly and think about what you're saying,

I......could.....care.....less.