who will put up a better stats, pau or bynum?

[RsxPiimp]

this season, who do you think would put up an overall better stats for a big man?

[mavs>spurs2]

laker fan says bynum will break all of wilt's records

so im gonna go with pao

[TheMadHatter]

What Laker fan has ever said Bynum will break Wilt's records?

Are you that dense moron? There is a difference from thinking Bynum will be a good player and possibly an All-Star in this league and thinking he will be a HOF lock.

[DPG21920]

I think Bynum can legitimately put up 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks on 53% shooting. Pau will probably put up 17 points, 8 rebounds and 1 block on 50% shooting. But Bynum will play much better D. So I think Bynum will do better.

[Allanon]

There are plenty of great power forwards but not enough good Centers so I'm guessing Bynum is going to have a better year than Gasol.

Pau's gonna have to go up against a talented Power Forward almost every night (Duncan, West, Amare, Dirk, Boozer, Bosh, KG, Brand, Sheed, Aldridge, Okafur, K-Mart, Horford, Josh Smith, etc.

Meanwhile, Bynum will have a relative size/speed and skill advantage over 25+ Centers. DHo, Yao, Oden are at the top and the rest are a definite cut below starting with Chris Kaman, Okur, Bogut, etc.

[21_Blessings]

I think Bynum can legitimately put up 14 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks on 53% shooting.

Bynum basically did that last season but on 60% shooting and 29 mintues.

If Phil gives Bynum more than 30 minutes a game he'll be grabbing around 12 board and blocking around 3 shots. Points are going to be hard to come by I would think with Kobe/Pau getting their shots and the MINUTE MEN sharing the scoring load.

[RsxPiimp]

im guessing 13 ppg 11 rpg 55% shooting and 1.92 bpg for bynum

[Hemotivo]

Gasol

[Indazone]

Waiting for this to turn into the Odon thread.

[Mad_Hatter]

There are plenty of great power forwards but not enough good Centers so I'm guessing Bynum is going to have a better year than Gasol.

Pau's gonna have to go up against a talented Power Forward almost every night (Duncan, West, Amare, Dirk, Boozer, Bosh, KG, Brand, Sheed, Aldridge, Okafur, K-Mart, Horford, Josh Smith, etc.

Meanwhile, Bynum will have a relative size/speed and skill advantage over 25+ Centers. DHo, Yao, Oden are at the top and the rest are a definite cut below starting with Chris Kaman, Okur, Bogut, etc.

since when is aldridge, okafor, k-mart, josh smith in the same category as duncan, kg, dirk... ? guess against weak ass defense of Pau Gasol they are. ya do know horford is a center right.

please tell me you dont think Oden and Bynum are at the top of the centers list?

[RsxPiimp]

please tell me you dont think Oden and Bynum are at the top of the centers list?
they are. i think by default though

[DPG21920]

Bynum basically did that last season but on 60% shooting and 29 mintues.

If Phil gives Bynum more than 30 minutes a game he'll be grabbing around 12 board and blocking around 3 shots. Points are going to be hard to come by I would think with Kobe/Pau getting their shots and the MINUTE MEN sharing the scoring load.

Minus Gasol.

[Allanon]

since when is aldridge, okafor, k-mart, josh smith in the same category as duncan, kg, dirk... ? guess against weak ass defense of Pau Gasol they are.

I said "talented", I did not say "in the same category".



ya do know horford is a center right.

Ya do know Horford plays Power Forward, is an undersized Center in the West and is listed as a C-F on the Hawks website, aight.



please tell me you dont think Oden and Bynum are at the top of the centers list?

Yao, DHo, Bynum, Oden + the rest.

Please tell me who is a better Center than those 4?

[DPG21920]

That depends on how you define "center". If you use the Horford argument and go by what the teams websites list, then:

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Amare Stoudemire
Marcus Camby
Tim Duncan
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler

just to name a few

[Allanon]

That depends on how you define "center". If you use the Horford argument and go by what the teams websites list, then:

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Amare Stoudemire
Marcus Camby
Tim Duncan
Rasheed Wallace
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler

just to name a few

Yao and DHo are the 2 Centers I'd put in front of Bynum.

You can't really use Horford as an argument as 7'2, 285 pound Bynum would tear 6'10, 245 pound Horford a new one if Horford tried to guard him. It's not really fair, just like Amare trying to guard Bynum. Too much lost size.

Off your list, as a starter, Bynum already put a beating on Amare and Kaman.

Coming off the bench, he played toe to toe with Camby, Sheed, Chandler. As a starter, I don't think he'll have much problems beating them.

Duncan's the only guy who'd be able to guard Bynum but I think he'll have his hands full with Pau at the Power Forward position.

[DPG21920]

Yao and DHo are the 2 Centers I'd put in front of Bynum.

You can't really use Horford as an argument as 7'2, 285 pound Bynum would tear 6'10, 245 pound Horford a new one if Horford tried to guard him. It's not really fair, just like Amare trying to guard Bynum. Too much lost size.

Off your list, as a starter, Bynum already put a beating on Amare and Kaman.

Coming off the bench, he played toe to toe with Camby, Sheed, Chandler.

Duncan's the only guy who'd be able to guard Bynum but I think he'll have his hands full with Pau at the Power Forward position.

OK.

[turiaf for president]

depends on what stats. pau will get more points and andrew will have more boards and blocks

[21_Blessings]

Minus Gasol.

And? Bynum will take rebounds away from Gasol just like he did to Odom.

Gasol has been getting Bynum easy buckets all preseason so I don't see Bynum's FG% falling all that much.

[turiaf for president]

as it stands i have yao, howard, bynum, chandler, kaman as my top 5 TRUE centers.

True PF's who play center from time to time

duncan, kg, amare, camby, pau
the rest of the 4's like dirk, brand, boozer, etc.....they play the 4 exclusively and isnt really considered a 4-5 so they are in a different category for me

[DPG21920]

All of the guys I listed have done much more than Bynum for years. The fact that Bynum has had a few good games means he has potential. But we are playing this year, not in the future. Every guy I listed would be taken over Bynum if a team is trying to win now.

[RsxPiimp]

do you guys think the lakers could win a champinship with a healthy bynum but no gasol?

[DPG21920]

And? Bynum will take rebounds away from Gasol just like he did to Odom.

Gasol has been getting Bynum easy buckets all preseason so I don't see Bynum's FG% falling all that much.

He will take rebounds from Pau and Odom now? I think you will see Bynum average exactly what he did last year.

[RsxPiimp]

All of the guys I listed have done much more than Bynum for years. The fact that Bynum has had a few good games means he has potential. But we are playing this year, not in the future. Every guy I listed would be taken over Bynum if a team is trying to win now.

kaman and camby as your big man if u want championship?

wtf

[Allanon]

do you guys think the lakers could win a champinship with a healthy bynum but no gasol?

No, I don't think so. The Lakers would have to get rid of Odom at the 4 spot. He does not have consistent power forward skills.

The odd thing about the Pau trade is I think the Lakers would be in a better position this year if they hadn't traded for Pau. With Bynum & Odom, the Lakers actually need Marc Gasol more than they need Pau. Financially, they'd be paying only $1 million compared to $15 million (something like that, I don't know the exact #'s).

[Allanon]

All of the guys I listed have done much more than Bynum for years. The fact that Bynum has had a few good games means he has potential. But we are playing this year, not in the future. Every guy I listed would be taken over Bynum if a team is trying to win now.

Duncan I definitely agree. Yao too.

If the Lakers didn't have Pau, I'd take Amare to win today. To build a team today, I'd take Bynum.

Camby, Sheed, Kaman, at their current ages and skill level, I would not take over Bynum if I wanted to win this year. Sheed used to be bad-ass but he's alot older now. Camby, Kaman have low ceilings and I'd say Bynum is a better player today than those two.

Chandler is a great defensive player but he has no offense.

For perspective, I think I remember the Wolves were getting a trade on the table with KG for Bynum + Farmar. Or maybe it was Odom + Bynum, I'm not sure. And of course there was the Jason Kidd for Bynum deal which Kobe was a little unhappy with. The Lakers would part with one of them but wouldn't let go of Bynum so they turned it down.

[DPG21920]

Duncan I definitely agree. Yao too.

If the Lakers didn't have Pau, I'd take Amare to win today. To build a team today, I'd take Bynum.

Camby, Sheed, Kaman, at their current ages and skill level, I would not take over Bynum if I wanted to win this year. Sheed used to be bad-ass but he's alot older now. Camby, Kaman have low ceilings and I'd say Bynum is a better player today than those two.

Chandler is a great defensive player but he has no offense.

For perspective, I think I remember the Wolves were getting a trade on the table with KG for Bynum + Farmar. Or maybe it was Odom + Bynum, I'm not sure. And of course there was the Jason Kidd for Bynum deal which Kobe was a little unhappy with. The Lakers would part with one of them but wouldn't let go of Bynum so they turned it down.

Ya because you are trying to distort the argument. The fact remains that you are trying to rank Bynum today. If you take potential and age into consideration then Bynum clearly moves up. But for teams winning today, his potential does not matter. Bynum, even when playing his best last year for that short amount of time, was not better than anyone I mentioned, especially with regards to experience. You keep acting like Bynum is this offensive genius. He is limited, just like everyone else for the most part. If he is not in the paint, he is not scoring. He has not shown a consistent shot, maybe some small flashes, but the body of work is not enough for any gm to pass up on the centers I listed if their goal is to win now.

[DPG21920]

Duncan I definitely agree. Yao too.

If the Lakers didn't have Pau, I'd take Amare to win today. To build a team today, I'd take Bynum.

Camby, Sheed, Kaman, at their current ages and skill level, I would not take over Bynum if I wanted to win this year. Sheed used to be bad-ass but he's alot older now. Camby, Kaman have low ceilings and I'd say Bynum is a better player today than those two.

Chandler is a great defensive player but he has no offense.

For perspective, I think I remember the Wolves were getting a trade on the table with KG for Bynum + Farmar. Or maybe it was Odom + Bynum, I'm not sure. And of course there was the Jason Kidd for Bynum deal which Kobe was a little unhappy with. The Lakers would part with one of them but wouldn't let go of Bynum so they turned it down.

IMO, that was stupid as hell, because the Lakers would of had a championship last year and possibly for the next 3 years. Kobe + KG is better than Kobe+Pau+Bynum

[DPG21920]

kaman and camby as your big man if u want championship?

wtf

Over Bynum. Yes.

[Allanon]

Ya because you are trying to distort the argument. The fact remains that you are trying to rank Bynum today. If you take potential and age into consideration then Bynum clearly moves up. But for teams winning today, his potential does not matter. Bynum, even when playing his best last year for that short amount of time, was not better than anyone I mentioned, especially with regards to experience. You keep acting like Bynum is this offensive genius. He is limited, just like everyone else for the most part. If he is not in the paint, he is not scoring. He has not shown a consistent shot, maybe some small flashes, but the body of work is not enough for any gm to pass up on the centers I listed if their goal is to win now.

No, I'm not talking about potential, I'm talking about today.

The preseason showed that Bynum has improved yet again with his new jump shot. His size just makes everything easy for him on the court. Just a couple of nights ago, he had like 23 points, a bunch of rebounds, couple blocks in <30 minutes.

Of all the Centers, only Yao scores easier than Bynum.

The only guy on your list that could put up those numbers right now is Amare. And Amare pitted against Bynum last Christmas was not good for Amare.

Camby, Kaman, Chandler were never very good stat stuffers to begin with.

[Allanon]

Camby + Kaman over Bynum for a championship?

Over Bynum. Yes.

That's craziness in my opinion. Maybe it's because I've never had much regard for Camby + Kaman.

[Allanon]

IMO, that was stupid as hell, because the Lakers would of had a championship last year and possibly for the next 3 years. Kobe + KG is better than Kobe+Pau+Bynum

Kobe + KG would have definitely been better in the short term and probably would have gotten them at least the next 2 championships. But across the next 6 years, I think Kobe+Pau+Bynum will be the better investment. And Bynum is the 10 year investment.

[DPG21920]

Kobe + KG would have definitely been better in the short term and probably would have gotten them at least the next 2 championships. But across the next 6 years, I think Kobe+Pau+Bynum will be the better investment. And Bynum is the 10 year investment.

But chips are whats important. Without Kobe, Bynum's value goes way down imo. He is a good big in comparison to most, but not the KG, Duncan...type of big that is so good on both ends that he can carry a team.

[Allanon]

But chips are whats important. Without Kobe, Bynum's value goes way down imo. He is a good big in comparison to most, but not the KG, Duncan...type of big that is so good on both ends that he can carry a team.

That is true. Bynum is not a leader...maybe after 5 more years, right now, he's 2nd or 3rd man.

[DPG21920]

I do know one thing though, I have Bynum on my fantasy team

[Allanon]

I do know one thing though, I have Bynum on my fantasy team

You won't regret the stat stuffing.

:toast

[RsxPiimp]

Over Bynum. Yes.

i could understand maybe kaman but camby is a overrated

[DPG21920]

i could understand maybe kaman but camby is a overrated

And Bynum isn't?

[TheMadHatter]

Kobe + KG > Kobe + Pau + Bynum???

Give me whatever you're smoking.

[RsxPiimp]

And Bynum isn't?

bynum can score and is a much more efficient rebounder than camby. he doesnt even deserve that dpoy.

[DPG21920]

bynum can score and is a much more efficient rebounder than camby. he doesnt even deserve that dpoy.

Says who, you?

[DPG21920]

Kobe + KG > Kobe + Pau + Bynum???

Give me whatever you're smoking.

Yes. Two of the best players in the league on both sides of the ball, plus two of the most fiercest competitors in the league are better. For the short term.

[RsxPiimp]

Says who, you?

watch the game. marcus is limited offensively. bynum led the league in fg% in limited touches and also grabs the board at a higher rate in less minutes


also tim duncan is a better choice for dpoy that year



watch the game dont read it.

[DPG21920]

watch the game.


thread

Oh, so the people who voted did not watch the games.

[RsxPiimp]

Oh, so the people who voted did not watch the games.
well people DID vote kobe for all defense first team the last 2 years. and ben wallace has been milking that defensive player credibility the past few seasons.


whats ur point?

[DPG21920]

well people DID vote kobe for all defense first team the last 2 years. and ben wallace has been milking that defensive player credibility the past few seasons.


whats ur point?

Whats yours? You are trying to say your OPINION has more bearing that those who know basketball a lot more than you do. Bynum rebounds well, but per minute stats are not accurate. If a guy plays one minute and scores one point, that means his per 48 would = 48 points. It does not really work like that. Fact is Camby is always top 3 in rebounds and blocks.

[DPG21920]

watch the game. marcus is limited offensively. bynum led the league in fg% in limited touches and also grabs the board at a higher rate in less minutes


also tim duncan is a better choice for dpoy that year



watch the game dont read it.

Ha, Andris Biedrins led the league in FG% for a while but all he does is dunk, same with Dwight Howard. Bynum leading the league if FG% is not indicative of his all around offensive game. He plays in the paint and dunks, not outside of it.

[RsxPiimp]

Whats yours? You are trying to say your OPINION has more bearing that those who know basketball a lot more than you do. Bynum rebounds well, but per minute stats are not accurate. If a guy plays one minute and scores one point, that means his per 48 would = 48 points. It does not really work like that. Fact is Camby is always top 3 in rebounds and blocks.


create a thread in every forum and ask the same question.


who is more efficent offensively? bynum or camby?


who grabs a higher rebounding rate? bynum or camby?


forget the experts. they dont know more than your casual basketball fan. ask the people.

[RsxPiimp]

Ha, Andris Biedrins led the league in FG% for a while but all he does is dunk, same with Dwight Howard. Bynum leading the league if FG% is not indicative of his all around offensive game. He plays in the paint and dunks, not outside of it.

biedrins is a player who can definitely give more. but he plays in a structured offense meant to run and gun.


you have monta ellis,baron davis,stephen davis taking majority of the shots and their post presence is neglected.


your exapmle of dwight further proves how close bynum is closing in among the best of the best in efficiency category. he just needs more playing time.


bynum can bang down low. and he has a soft touch for a player that is barely hitting the scratch of his potential.

[DPG21920]

create a thread in every forum and ask the same question.


who is more efficent offensively? bynum or camby?


who grabs a higher rebounding rate? bynum or camby?


forget the experts. they dont know more than your casual basketball fan. ask the people.

So you think that Bynum will out rebound Camby given the same minutes?

Bynum is a better finisher around the rim and is more efficient, but I have seen Camby hit jumpers and 3 pointers, Bynum cannot do that.

That is the empirical fallacy of being a fan. You think you know more than people getting paid. If that was the case, you could find a job doing this.

[RsxPiimp]

Whats yours? You are trying to say your OPINION has more bearing that those who know basketball a lot more than you do. Bynum rebounds well, but per minute stats are not accurate. If a guy plays one minute and scores one point, that means his per 48 would = 48 points. It does not really work like that. Fact is Camby is always top 3 in rebounds and blocks.

i didnt even mention PER 48 as the end all be all indicative of productions. its a good aspect of stats so it shouldnt be disregarded anyway.


what im saying is that with the way the lakers/phil is using bynum, he is certainly a player that can outperform camby.

[DPG21920]

biedrins is a player who can definitely give more. but he plays in a structured offense meant to run and gun.


you have monta ellis,baron davis,stephen davis taking majority of the shots and their post presence is neglected.


your exapmle of dwight further proves how close bynum is closing in among the best of the best in efficiency category. he just needs more playing time.


bynum can bang down low. and he has a soft touch for a player that is barely hitting the scratch of his potential.

The guy hasn't played at all. Does not mean he does not have potential, but guys like you overrate him at the expense of ignoring DPOY awards and guys that have been doing it for years.

Saying that he dunks and is limited offensively is not putting him in a class. Biedrins cannot shoot, have you watched him take a free throw? Dwight? Just because you can dunk, does not mean you have skill. That is where you wrong. Being able to dunk is valuable and you will shoot a high% but it is not a skill.

[DPG21920]

Efficiency is always skewed towards big men. Same with per 48.

[RsxPiimp]

So you think that Bynum will out rebound Camby given the same minutes?.


yes.




Bynum is a better finisher around the rim and is more efficient, but I have seen Camby hit jumpers and 3 pointers, Bynum cannot do that. ?.

Bynum is a traditional center. any center who shoots threes and uses that as his case why he's a much more efficient player needs to evaluate his career.




That is the empirical fallacy of being a fan. You think you know more than people getting paid. If that was the case, you could find a job doing this.

I dont think i do. But what I do know is that an overwhelming amount of fan knows more basketball than Rick Kamla, Jalen Rose and Bill Walton.


dont confuse knowledge with actual basketball skills

[RsxPiimp]

The guy hasn't played at all. Does not mean he does not have potential, but guys like you overrate him at the expense of ignoring DPOY awards and guys that have been doing it for years.

Saying that he dunks and is limited offensively is not putting him in a class. Biedrins cannot shoot, have you watched him take a free throw? Dwight? Just because you can dunk, does not mean you have skill. That is where you wrong. Being able to dunk is valuable and you will shoot a high% but it is not a skill.

im not overrating bynum.


im advocating the fact that camby is overrated.oppositions where having a field day in the paint with camby manning the post.

[DPG21920]

Thats what happens when you have players that suck at defense and a coach who does not hold them accountable.

[RsxPiimp]

Thats what happens when you have players that suck at defense and a coach who does not hold them accountable.

nah man. camby is a stat freak who would give you 2 bpg but its impact hardly shows on the court.



kinda like how iverson used to give the sixers 2 thefts a game but he is easily one of the worst defensive point guard.


not saying camby and iverson are a like but you get the point.

[DPG21920]

nah man. camby is a stat freak who would give you 2 bpg but its impact hardly shows on the court.



kinda like how iverson used to give the sixers 2 thefts a game but he is easily one of the worst defensive point guard.


not saying camby and iverson are a like but you get the point.

Lets put it this way. If Camby was on the Spurs, our defense would be the best in the league.

[turiaf for president]

comparing bynums offensive game to dho and biedrins is stupid. Howard has yet to develop a low post game. hes offensive game is comparable to shaq when he first came in the league. can he get better? of course. shaq developed a lil jump hook to go along with his strength. Bynum can use his right and his left around the basket. he improved his jump hook tremendously during the offseason and showed it in the preseason. having kareem as ure personal coach always helps.

u keep bringing up his potential. and yes its true but its not like he had 3-4 games last year where he put up good numbers. he did it night in and night out and only improved as the season progressed. compared to a nba career, 30-35 games is miniscule but its still a good indicator of the body of work. there is not ONE GM in the league that doesnt think he will have an offseason this year. if it was soley on potential, they would say hes got upside but wont have him as a key piece in a championship team.

[RsxPiimp]

Lets put it this way. If Camby was on the Spurs, our defense would be the best in the league.

camby and duncan? of course man, no one would argue.

[SpursDynasty]

Over the last 2 seasons Andrew Bynum has averaged about 10 points a game. Big deal.

[21_Blessings]

He will take rebounds from Pau and Odom now?

With Odom coming off the BENCH, yes.

[DPG21920]

With Odom coming off the BENCH, yes.

Who cares if he is coming off the bench, he will be getting plenty of playing time. You are over inflating his stats I think, but that does not over inflate his value. There are so many rebounders (plus you have to factor in foul trouble) and scorers it is going to be hard to surpass what he did last year statistically I believe. I do believe he might take a board a game away from Pau.

[TheMACHINE]

lol at Bynum vs Camby

lol at whoever choses Camby over Bynum.

[21_Blessings]

Who cares if he is coming off the bench, he will be getting plenty of playing time.

He'll be getting less playing time than last year. And fact that he's coming off the bench does matter. As he'll be backing up Bynum and Gasol so most of the time you'll see a front court of Bynum/Odom, Bynum/Gasol or Gasol/Odom instead of a Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Bynum was able take boards away from Odom when they were on the court together last season and that not going to change. If anything, Odom's boards will decrease by about 3.


You are over inflating his stats I think, but that does not over inflate his value. There are so many rebounders (plus you have to factor in foul trouble) and scorers it is going to be hard to surpass what he did last year statistically I believe.

You're deflating his stats based on pure ignorance. Bynum was grabbing that many rebounds last season in just under 29 minutes and after coming off the bench the first 2-3 weeks of the season. Now, he'll be starting, playing more minutes and is in much better physical shape than he was last year. That means more rebounds.

[21_Blessings]

Bynum isn't scoring 20 points a game, Phil has even said as much. Not with Kobe/Pau on the team. And none of those players you mentioned are going to be stealing boards away from Bynum when he's in the game as he engulfs anything in his vicinity.

[RsxPiimp]

Not to mention that Bynum has added a nice 15ft shot and a fall away 10fter. Most people who arent Lakers fans didnt see what we saw during the month of Jan. last year. Its rare that you see a 20 year old delcare that he would have a break out year, and he actually does it. Everything about Bynum has improved, so I expect his numbers to improve as well. Look for him to do all season what he did in Jan.

ive seen those preseason games.


bynum should stick with his low post moves rather than pop those jumpers.

[RsxPiimp]

I was only suggesting that he should be a 20/10 guy. Ive adopted the theory of establishing the Big man first, and the Lakers do just the opposite. If I was coaching the Lakers, both of my 7fters would be averaging 20 a night. Kobe would have to swallow his pride and dump that ball inside. And Bynum even admited that Odom gets all the rebounds.

look


stop

listen


bynum aint gonna avg 20 a game with kobe,odom,and pau.

[IronMexican]

look


stop

listen


bynum aint gonna avg 20 a game with kobe,odom,and pau.

Lol, Odumb. I agree with you though. Well, except the Odumb part. Bynum wont get enough touches. Maybe if he can get a lot of put backs, but other wise, no.

[RsxPiimp]

Read

Understand

Comprehend

I never said he will be a 20/10 guy. I said he could be. He was putting up 17/12 for the month of Jan, playing only around 32 minutes, and shooting 70%.

alright my bad


i do have problems with comprehension sometimes. i knocked my head a couple o times when i was snorting some cocaine when i was 16.

[21_Blessings]

And Bynum even admited that Odom gets all the rebounds.

Which wasn't the case when Bynum was starting last season. Odom's boards dropped dramatically and only went back up when Bynum went down and Pau was playing center.