I love watching Lebron

[TheMadHatter]

Anyone hear him after he rejected Ray Allen's layup:

"GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE"

[timvp]

LeBron > Kobe

[dirk4mvp]

Anyone hear him after he rejected Ray Allen's layup:

"GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE"


Yea, that was nice.


His chin was at the rim on that layup alley.

[Trainwreck2100]

LeBron > Kobe

+1

[dirk4mvp]

LeBron > Kobe


+2

[JamStone]

LeBron > Kobe

+1

Kobe might be more skillful, but for me, LeBron surpassed Kobe last season. Interesting how it was the season Kobe got his first League MVP, but LeBron is better now.

[balli]

His chin was at the rim on that layup alley.

That was a damn cool play. Thank god, it's been a long off-season.

Kori's gonna be bent about this thread title BTW.

[baseline bum]

Nice 1Q from Cleveland

[IronMexican]

I am a fan of LeBron too. He is a bit egotistical, but a damn good, and exciting player to watch.

[dirk4mvp]

Mo Williams is the shit.

[TheMadHatter]

I agree, Lebron will definitely surpass Kobe this season. He's just phenomenal and loads of fun to watch. I've got nothing but praise for the guy.

[Trainwreck2100]

+1


+2


+1

Kobe might be more skillful, but for me, LeBron surpassed Kobe last season. Interesting how it was the season Kobe got his first League MVP, but LeBron is better now.

:lol all posted at 7:30

[IronMexican]

I agree, Lebron will definitely surpass Kobe this season. He's just phenomenal and loads of fun to watch. I've got nothing but praise for the guy.

I agree. You ever go to LG? that shit is hilarious. They all call Kobe "The GOAT"

[Avitus1]

LeBron > Kobe

+1

[Thunder Dan]

I like watching Damon Jones better than Lebron

[manufor3]

LeBron > Kobe

+4

[dirk4mvp]

what a sick oop.

[Thunder Dan]

what a sick oop.

yes it was

[sook]

he really impressed you last season....was that when he shot like 17% vs the celts?

Kobe is going to be the best player this season too.

[dirk4mvp]

he really impressed you last season....was that when he shot like 17% vs the celts?

Kobe is going to be the best player this season too.


I think it was when he took a squad full of scrubs to 7 games against Boston when Kobe's team got the shit beat out of them by 40 in game 6....just my guess :bking

[angelbelow]

pierce looks damn sharp.

[Many PackYao]

:lol @ Lebron posterizing Clit Pierce on that oop.:p:

[angelbelow]

kobe is leading the list right now to who the best player in the league is. we'll see how his injuries affect him though.

[TheMadHatter]

Can you guys stop yourselves from turning any thread into a Kobe-bashing one?

Even a Lebron-praise thread from a Laker fan gets turned into a Kobe bash by Spurs and Mavs fans. You guys are too much :lmao. I suggest some anger management.

I'm still not impressed with Lebron's jumpshot though. It looks as poor as ever, I thought he would spend *some* time this off season developing it.

[pauls931]

I am a fan of LeBron too. He is a bit egotistical, but a damn good, and exciting player to watch.

He definitely needs to take a lesson from Kobe on how to be modest.

[MavDynasty]

What the fuck!!!! who plays solja boy any more????

[tlongII]

LeBron has been the best player in the league for the past 3 years.

[ShoogarBear]

Where is ducks?

[MavDynasty]

Where is ducks?

I hope he is in grammar class.

[m33p0]

LeBron has been the best player in the league for the past 3 years.
except 3 years ago.

[MavDynasty]

Thunder Dan should be happy;his browns suck ass,maybe his cavs will do better.

[dirk4mvp]

Why are they advertising that shit Live 09 game so much?

[angelbelow]

Why are they advertising that shit Live 09 game so much?

that was a pretty bad commercial. none of the gameplay shots were impressive or even realistic. live is such garbage.

[sook]

I think it was when he took a squad full of scrubs to 7 games against Boston when Kobe's team got the shit beat out of them by 40 in game 6....just my guess :bking

the cav's defense is what took boston to 7 games, look lebron's boxscores, boston's defense was so focused on him he looked like a scrub every game before the 7th one

[monosylab1k]

Kobe > LeBron, and that shit is not up for debate until LeBron practices his fucking free throws.

I really can't even take LeBron seriously when he says he wants to win a title and then throws up nonstop bricks at the line.

[MavDynasty]

lol lebron choke fest at the line

[JamStone]

Mo Williams: 12 pts, 2 asts, 4 TOs

I realize it was the first game of the season and against the Celtics and he needs some more time to adjust, but he needs to give much more than that to give the impact the Cavaliers were expecting when they got him.

[stretch]

the cav's defense is what took boston to 7 games, look lebron's boxscores, boston's defense was so focused on him he looked like a scrub every game before the 7th one
lebron may have had some bad shooting games in that series, because he was basically being guarded 5-on-1 because the rest of his team sucked so bad, but when he needed to make the big plays, he was constantly coming through for the cavs. cant say the same for kobe through pretty much the entire finals.

[stretch]

Kobe > LeBron, and that shit is not up for debate until LeBron practices his fucking free throws.

id say its definitely up for debate. lebron may not be a great free-throw shooter, but kobe is not a great leader.

leadership > free-throw shooting ability, and that is not a debatable point at all.

thus lebron > kobe, and its not up for debate

[TheMadHatter]

lebron may have had some bad shooting games in that series, because he was basically being guarded 5-on-1 because the rest of his team sucked so bad, but when he needed to make the big plays, he was constantly coming through for the cavs. cant say the same for kobe through pretty much the entire finals.

dumbest take of the thread.

[Thunder Dan]

Thunder Dan should be happy;his browns suck ass,maybe his cavs will do better.

3-4 sucks ass?

[JamStone]

Kobe might be more skillful, but for me, LeBron surpassed Kobe last season. Interesting how it was the season Kobe got his first League MVP, but LeBron is better now.

Hell no. Kobe is still better.

[IronMexican]

Kobe is still the better player in the NBA I suppose. I was expecting LeBron to take a serious leap this year. guess not.

[KidCongo]

Kobe is still the better player in the NBA I suppose. I was expecting LeBron to take a serious leap this year. guess not.

Kobe took a serious leap in his rebounding this year.

[turiaf for president]

lebron LOST the game for them tonite. how the hell does the star perimeter player miss 2 out of 4 free throws with the game on the line?
pure ability, lebron is unstoppable. the most unguardable player in the league, but kobe is still the best. but what do we know, ask the players in the league who they think is the best and they have said its kobe time after time

[TheMadHatter]

Wow thanks Lebron for doing your best to prove me wrong tonight. Choking on free throws, bringing every jump shot in sight, and losing again to the Celtics. Meanwhile Kobe looked like he hasn't aged a bit.

I guess a better argument is that Lebron is more *impactful* than Kobe is on both ends of the floor. Doesn't mean he's more skilled or talented, he just has the ability to impact the game on both ends of the floor in a greater way than anyone else in the league.

[peskypesky]

Lebron is awesome. Can't hate on him. Freak of nature.

[RsxPiimp]

lebron 1a
kobe 1b

[stretch]

what a bunch of fucking idiots. making a concrete decision based on the first game of the season.

[stretch]

dumbest take of the thread.

and what exactly did kobe do in the finals?

lebron showed 10X more heart and determination in his series against boston than kobe did in the finals.

[Thunder Dan]

Kobe is still the better player in the NBA I suppose. I was expecting LeBron to take a serious leap this year. guess not.

LMAO- so let's judge his whole season on the first game.

Kobe played a team that didn't make the playoffs at home- while Lebron was on the road facing the defending champions. I don't really care who is better because they are both good- but some of your arguments are stupid- IT'S THE FIRST GAME

[monosylab1k]

LMAO- so let's judge his whole season on the first game.

All he had to do was make his free throws. Honestly the fact that he's let his free throw shooting suck this long shows me that he isn't nearly as dedicated to improving his game as Kobe is.

[Thunder Dan]

Kobe is still the better player in the NBA I suppose. I was expecting LeBron to take a serious leap this year. guess not.


All he had to do was make his free throws. Honestly the fact that he's let his free throw shooting suck this long shows me that he isn't nearly as dedicated to improving his game as Kobe is.

Lebron is a better rebounder and passer than Kobe- that doesn't trump Kobe's free throw shooting ability? or is scoring the only thing we want to base all this on?

[turiaf for president]

^ thats more ablity than working hard. shooting a open 15 footer should be EASY for a perimeter player.

at the end of the game, you KNOW if u foul kobe its money. by contrast if u foul lebron its a circus act

[monosylab1k]

Lebron is a better rebounder and passer than Kobe- that doesn't trump Kobe's free throw shooting ability? or is scoring the only thing we want to base all this on?

LeBron had a chance to get his team within 1 point, and potentially get a game winning opportunity on their next possession. All he had to do was make his free throws.

Anybody can miss a free throw, I understand that. Kobe might have bricked one there. And LeBron certainly isn't a choker, and he didn't "choke" on his free throws.

He didn't miss his free throws last night cuz he choked, he didn't miss it just because people miss free throws once in a while.......he missed them because he sucks ass at shooting free throws and he doesn't give a shit about it. If he gave a shit, he'd have improved his free throw shooting back a couple years ago when he first started sucking ass at them. All it takes is practice and concentration, but apparently he's more interested in his "global icon" status than he is in improving a fundamental area of his game.

Not everyone can be Steve Nash at the line, but with LeBron's talent, there's no excuse for him not being able to hover around the 80% range.

[Thunder Dan]

^ thats more ablity than working hard. shooting a open 15 footer should be EASY for a perimeter player.

at the end of the game, you KNOW if u foul kobe its money. by contrast if u foul lebron its a circus act

but are you guys not arguing who is the best player? Why should ability be discounted in that argument then? I'm sure there is a guy that works harder than Manny at hitting, but Manny is still the best hitter- it doesn't matter. I mean there might be a guy that hits certain pitches better- but Manny is still the best hitter. (This isn't about Manny, I'm just making an argument)

[turiaf for president]

^ im not discrediting his ablilty. hes a freakin stud. but when youre the star perimeter player on your team, rebounds and assists are an added bonus. hes the focal point of that offense. He has to be superior in his ablilties to score. that means, yea hes unstoppable going to the hole but wut happens they they play a hard zone on him. hes gotta make jumpers! look at all the great wingmen in nba history. there were a bunch that could rebound and pass but they ALL shot the ball from the free throw line WHERE NO ONE GUARDS THEM with a high efficiency.

[Thunder Dan]

LeBron had a chance to get his team within 1 point, and potentially get a game winning opportunity on their next possession. All he had to do was make his free throws.

Anybody can miss a free throw, I understand that. Kobe might have bricked one there. And LeBron certainly isn't a choker, and he didn't "choke" on his free throws.

He didn't miss his free throws last night cuz he choked, he didn't miss it just because people miss free throws once in a while.......he missed them because he sucks ass at shooting free throws and he doesn't give a shit about it. If he gave a shit, he'd have improved his free throw shooting back a couple years ago when he first started sucking ass at them. All it takes is practice and concentration, but apparently he's more interested in his "global icon" status than he is in improving a fundamental area of his game.

Not everyone can be Steve Nash at the line, but with LeBron's talent, there's no excuse for him not being able to hover around the 80% range.

But that is just one aspect of the game. I know Lebron sucks at free throws but you are just taking one game and one aspect of Lebrons game and magnifying it. There is alot of basketball to be played. But if we judged every player on their worth by free throw shooting ability and how many points they score a night, we would be talking about how great Ricky Davis is. Yes Lebron missed some clutch free throws last night- but on most nights he will do things that Kobe doesn't do like grab more boards and dish out more assists.

They are similar players, but they are very different- so it's hard to say who is better. But you are lumping Lebron into being only a scorer- be he really isnt. Like I said, I don't really know who is better, and I don't really care. I would rather have Lebron than Kobe, but that is because he grew up 15 minutes from me. Kobe is a great player, but when you are arguing who is the best player in a sport you can't just look at points or things like that- you have to take the overall game. It's just like in the NFL, someone might say Tom Brady is the best player- but it could very well be a linemen that is the best player in history but the stats do not translate and are not something people can have conversations about

[monosylab1k]

but are you guys not arguing who is the best player? Why should ability be discounted in that argument then? I'm sure there is a guy that works harder than Manny at hitting, but Manny is still the best hitter- it doesn't matter. I mean there might be a guy that hits certain pitches better- but Manny is still the best hitter. (This isn't about Manny, I'm just making an argument)

Manny can be the best hitter in baseball while still not being the best overall player. Just like Lebron can be the best at a lot of things but not be the best overall player until he fixes pretty important shit like his free throws. It's bad enough that team has Ben Wallace.

[turiaf for president]

^ i base it on who you can count on to win games. Dan would you take lebron or kobe with the game tied wit 30 seconds to go in the game.

when 2 players are that close in the convo, i would always go with the guy who can be a dagger in the opponents back with a game winning shot

[Thunder Dan]

Manny can be the best hitter in baseball while still not being the best overall player. Just like Lebron can be the best at a lot of things but not be the best overall player until he fixes pretty important shit like his free throws. It's bad enough that team has Ben Wallace.

I know. Like I said, I really don't care who is better to be honest- they are both good, and they have both shown the ability to carry their teams. I was just throwing it out there that where Kobe is a better free throw shooter, Lebron is a better passer- so it should cancel out. If you hold everything else constant, if Lebron has one more assist than Kobe and the game comes down to the end with the Cavs or Lakers down 2- Lebron can miss 2 free throws because he has an assist, and Kobe can make the FT's and the game is tied!

[Thunder Dan]

^ i base it on who you can count on to win games. Dan would you take lebron or kobe with the game tied wit 30 seconds to go in the game.

when 2 players are that close in the convo, i would always go with the guy who can be a dagger in the opponents back with a game winning shot

I'd take Kobe- HOWEVER, I would take Lebron the rest of the night to give me the scoring AND assists to get the game to the point where the game is tied w/ 30 seconds. That is what I'm saying, I'm saying that the game isn't the final 30 seconds every night- they play 4 quarters

[Thunder Dan]

not to change the subject a whole lot, but how hot is this chick?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f196/sdpimpy/teebow.jpg

[Red Hawk #21]

LeBron had a chance to get his team within 1 point, and potentially get a game winning opportunity on their next possession. All he had to do was make his free throws.

Anybody can miss a free throw, I understand that. Kobe might have bricked one there. And LeBron certainly isn't a choker, and he didn't "choke" on his free throws.

He didn't miss his free throws last night cuz he choked, he didn't miss it just because people miss free throws once in a while.......he missed them because he sucks ass at shooting free throws and he doesn't give a shit about it. If he gave a shit, he'd have improved his free throw shooting back a couple years ago when he first started sucking ass at them. All it takes is practice and concentration, but apparently he's more interested in his "global icon" status than he is in improving a fundamental area of his game.

Not everyone can be Steve Nash at the line, but with LeBron's talent, there's no excuse for him not being able to hover around the 80% range.

Yo Mono you are spot on, I've seen so many of Lebron's games where this guy just simply can't hit his fts. If Lebron wants to be up there with Jordan and Kobe and the other greats he better get to the gym and work really hard on his fts and his jumpshooting. Because once your opponents know you have a weakness they will surely expoit it. Thats my two cents.

[turiaf for president]

^ valid point but actually the game IS the last 6 minutes of the game. when 2 evenly matched teams go at it, its usually played with lead changes all throughout the game with it being close in the final 5-6 minutes. Thats when the game tightens down and pretty much becomes a 5 minute game to close it out. thats when the "best" player should shine and i would put my money on kobe more than any other player in the league.

Its like this, are the phillies good this year cuz of cole hamels (lebron) or brad lidge (kobe). hamels is an awesome SP but lidge hasnt blown a save all year.

[turiaf for president]

Yo Mono you are spot on, I've seen so many of Lebron's games where this guy just simply can't hit his fts. If Lebron wants to be up there with Jordan and Kobe and the other greats he better get to the gym and work really hard on his fts and his jumpshooting. Because once your opponents know you have a weakness they will surely expoit it. Thats my two cents.

i just hope we dont see hack a lebron in the future.

[Thunder Dan]

^ valid point but actually the game IS the last 6 minutes of the game. when 2 evenly matched teams go at it, its usually played with lead changes all throughout the game with it being close in the final 5-6 minutes. Thats when the game tightens down and pretty much becomes a 5 minute game to close it out. thats when the "best" player should shine and i would put my money on kobe more than any other player in the league.

Its like this, are the phillies good this year cuz of cole hamels (lebron) or brad lidge (kobe). hamels is an awesome SP but lidge hasnt blown a save all year.

but Lidge can't get a save without good starting pitching


i just hope we dont see hack a lebron in the future.

he is a 73% FT shooter- it's not bad enough for a hack a Lebron

[turiaf for president]

right, without GOOD starting pitching. a GOOD team will keep the score close til the last 5 minutes and after that i want brad lidge and not jonathon broxton

[Red Hawk #21]

i just hope we dont see hack a lebron in the future.

His fts aren't that bad but what concerns me is his jumpshooting. He doesn't really have a good jumper but once in a while he can heat up. What really bails Lebron out is his strength and athleticism, if opponents try to force him to shoot he won't settle and he'll go right through the defense and serve up a facial. But after some years he won't have that strength to do that anymore which is why he needs to develop his jumper now so he can have something else to rely on.

[turiaf for president]

lebron ft's arent too bad yes. but i cant remember one time he sank them in clutch situations. im sure there were but I just dont remember. if i had a talker like arenas or reggie miller on my team, i would foul lebron when im up by 3 with 15 seconds left EVERY time. have they talk trash before lebron shoots.

[IronMexican]

LMAO- so let's judge his whole season on the first game.

Kobe played a team that didn't make the playoffs at home- while Lebron was on the road facing the defending champions. I don't really care who is better because they are both good- but some of your arguments are stupid- IT'S THE FIRST GAME

I guess you're right about the first game. But, come on mang, make soem damn FT's

[Thunder Dan]

lebron ft's arent too bad yes. but i cant remember one time he sank them in clutch situations. im sure there were but I just dont remember. if i had a talker like arenas or reggie miller on my team, i would foul lebron when im up by 3 with 15 seconds left EVERY time. have they talk trash before lebron shoots.

He has sunk them a couple times to win games or atleast keep the Cavs in the game. Last night was the 2nd time I remember when he missed them to literally take them out of the game- the other was he needed to make 2 against the Lakers in 2005 to send the game into OT and he missed one. I remember it was in LA. I remember him sinking 2 with under a second left last year to beat the Wizards (I think). I mean as a Cavs fan it sucks when he misses them, but then I remember that without him they wouldn't even be in that situation in the first place and also there were several other shots they could have made earlier in the game. I know everyone focuses on the free throws at the end, but there were other free throws missed in the other 3 quarters that were equally important and it wasn't just Lebron missing them.

[z0sa]

Anyone hear him after he rejected Ray Allen's layup:

"GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE"

Seems Lakerfan is still a bit mad about Ray's layup over Sasha

[Killakobe81]

I agree. You ever go to LG? that shit is hilarious. They all call Kobe "The GOAT"

I agree love watching Bron ...but a few things many posters have gotten wrong ...

1. He said GIVE ME THAT SHIT! not GET THAT SHIT OUTTA HERE

2. I post on LG and i dont say he is the GOAT(kobe) but he is the best in the game right NOW still if you watched the Freethrows and jumpers missed late in that SAME GAME by Lebron ...you would realize the truth Kobe still better
Physically LBJ is a freak, a beast but to get to Kobe and eventually MJ he has to hit jumpers and FT's late ...

3. I do think he will and if healthy may go down as the new GOAT even over JOrdan

[JamStone]

Lebron is a better rebounder and passer than Kobe- that doesn't trump Kobe's free throw shooting ability? or is scoring the only thing we want to base all this on?


I think LeBron has more ability and natural talent than Kobe. I even think he's a better player at this point. I said as much in this thread. But, you know damn well than an argument for Kobe being better is not just free throw shooting.

Kobe still has the the edge in perimeter man-to-man defense, overall jump shooting ability, from midrange to long range, and the trump card could arguably still be his mental toughness and killer instinct. No way is LeBron the assassin Kobe is.

I like LeBron as the better talent. Kobe is still a straight killer though. And, it's not just about free throw shooting ability.

[monosylab1k]

I think LeBron has more ability and natural talent than Kobe. I even think he's a better player at this point. I said as much in this thread. But, you know damn well than an argument for Kobe being better is not just free throw shooting.

Kobe still has the the edge in perimeter man-to-man defense, overall jump shooting ability, from midrange to long range, and the trump card could arguably still be his mental toughness and killer instinct. No way is LeBron the assassin Kobe is.

I like LeBron as the better talent. Kobe is still a straight killer though. And, it's not just about free throw shooting ability.

:tu

LeBron's FT shooting to me is just an indicator that LeBron doesn't take improving his game as seriously as he makes it sound. I'm sure he's a hard worker, but is he working on his game as hard as Kobe is working on his? Or Jordan worked on his? The FT shooting alone makes the answer to those questions obvious. If LeBron really wanted to be the GOAT and win a title, he might have mixed in a free throw shooting session or two amidst all his sexing up of Chinese hookers.

[TheMadHatter]

Actually no, Lebron is not more talented than Kobe. Kobe has refined his game to a point where he literally has no weaknesses. He can do it all and then some.

Lebron still has glaring holes in his game that are overcompensated by the fact that he can drive to the hole like a freight train, get hacked, and still make the layup.

Lebron is not the *best* player in the game. He's the most impactful.

[dirk4mvp]

LMAO- so let's judge his whole season on the first game.




Yep. A lot of great players can look bad off of one game. If he bricks late game free throws a few more times, maybe we can say something about it, but it's stupid to judge off of one game.

[Red Hawk #21]

Just watch this video to see some of Lebron's shooting :

UpCE9das-yk

[stretch]

the trump card could arguably still be his mental toughness and killer instinct. No way is LeBron the assassin Kobe is.

You sure about that? I mean we are talking about the guy who didn't do shit in the finals this past year, allowing his team to blow a 24 point lead (something Jordan or even Lebron would have NEVER let his team do), not to mention that massive 3-1 series lead he blew against the Suns, including GIVING UP on his team in the series.

No way does Lebron allow his teams to screw those kinds of situations up. You know why? Two reasons. Because hes a better leader, and he doesnt get comfortable settling for jumpshots. He is always playing aggresively, whereas Kobe these days sits back to shoot low percentage fade-aways FAR too often.

[stretch]

LMAO- so let's judge his whole season on the first game.

Kobe played a team that didn't make the playoffs at home- while Lebron was on the road facing the defending champions. I don't really care who is better because they are both good- but some of your arguments are stupid- IT'S THE FIRST GAME

It really doesn't matter. These same posters will at least 18 times through the season switch their pick as to who the better player is based off of single game performances.

[JamStone]

You sure about that? I mean we are talking about the guy who didn't do shit in the finals this past year, allowing his team to blow a 24 point lead (something Jordan or even Lebron would have NEVER let his team do), not to mention that massive 3-1 series lead he blew against the Suns, including GIVING UP on his team in the series.

No way does Lebron allow his teams to screw those kinds of situations up. You know why? Two reasons. Because hes a better leader, and he doesnt get comfortable settling for jumpshots. He is always playing aggresively, whereas Kobe these days sits back to shoot low percentage fade-aways FAR too often.

LeBron led his team all the way to the NBA Finals and failed to lead that same team to one Finals win, not one, while shooting 36% from the field and 20% from the three point range (4-for-20). That Finals series included game 4 where the Cavaliers lost to the Spurs by 1 point and LeBron missed 4 free throws. LeBron averaged 5.8 turnovers in those 2007 NBA Finals.

In LeBron's first two games against the highly touted Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference semifinal playoff series last season, LeBron shot a whopping 19% (only up from 11% from game 1 because he shot lights out for 25% from the field in game 2) from the field and committed 17 turnovers.

In the pivotal game 5 at Boston, the Cavs had a 14 point lead late in the second quarter against the Celtics. In that game 5, from the time the Cavaliers were up 14 points, 43-29, with 3:49 left in the second quarter until the end of the third quarter, where the Celtics led 72-63, LeBron played all 15:49 minutes and went 1-for-6 from the field, including 1 shot blocked, had 2 points and 1 assist, committed 1 turnover and 1 foul, shot no free throws, and pulled down no rebounds. So, on that 43-20 run by the Celtics, LeBron's leadership was on full display. This was just last season by the way, a few months ago.


I've already said in this very thread that LeBron is now the better player. He has more talent and more natural ability. But, if someone is arguing that Kobe is the better player--and it's still very much a debatable topic--it's not only free throw shooting that gives Kobe the edge. LeBron is better, but you cannot argue that he has more mental toughness or more of a killer instinct than Kobe. That's a failing argument.

[pauls931]

I think Lebron is good, but I mean Cleveland runs the same damn play every time and when they try running something else, the defense snuffs it and they get the ball back to Lebron. The question is... Does he make the players around him better?

[jonnybravo]

LeBron led his team all the way to the NBA Finals and failed to lead that same team to one Finals win, not one, while shooting 36% from the field and 20% from the three point range (4-for-20). That Finals series included game 4 where the Cavaliers lost to the Spurs by 1 point and LeBron missed 4 free throws. LeBron averaged 5.8 turnovers in those 2007 NBA Finals.

In LeBron's first two games against the highly touted Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference semifinal playoff series last season, LeBron shot a whopping 19% (only up from 11% from game 1 because he shot lights out for 25% from the field in game 2) from the field and committed 17 turnovers.

In the pivotal game 5 at Boston, the Cavs had a 14 point lead late in the second quarter against the Celtics. In that game 5, from the time the Cavaliers were up 14 points, 43-29, with 3:49 left in the second quarter until the end of the third quarter, where the Celtics led 72-63, LeBron played all 15:49 minutes and went 1-for-6 from the field, including 1 shot blocked, had 2 points and 1 assist, committed 1 turnover and 1 foul, shot no free throws, and pulled down no rebounds. So, on that 43-20 run by the Celtics, LeBron's leadership was on full display. This was just last season by the way, a few months ago.


I've already said in this very thread that LeBron is now the better player. He has more talent and more natural ability. But, if someone is arguing that Kobe is the better player--and it's still very much a debatable topic--it's not only free throw shooting that gives Kobe the edge. LeBron is better, but you cannot argue that he has more mental toughness or more of a killer instinct than Kobe. That's a failing argument.

Owned.

[lefty]

LeBron led his team all the way to the NBA Finals and failed to lead that same team to one Finals win, not one, while shooting 36% from the field and 20% from the three point range (4-for-20). That Finals series included game 4 where the Cavaliers lost to the Spurs by 1 point and LeBron missed 4 free throws. LeBron averaged 5.8 turnovers in those 2007 NBA Finals.

In LeBron's first two games against the highly touted Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference semifinal playoff series last season, LeBron shot a whopping 19% (only up from 11% from game 1 because he shot lights out for 25% from the field in game 2) from the field and committed 17 turnovers.

In the pivotal game 5 at Boston, the Cavs had a 14 point lead late in the second quarter against the Celtics. In that game 5, from the time the Cavaliers were up 14 points, 43-29, with 3:49 left in the second quarter until the end of the third quarter, where the Celtics led 72-63, LeBron played all 15:49 minutes and went 1-for-6 from the field, including 1 shot blocked, had 2 points and 1 assist, committed 1 turnover and 1 foul, shot no free throws, and pulled down no rebounds. So, on that 43-20 run by the Celtics, LeBron's leadership was on full display. This was just last season by the way, a few months ago.


I've already said in this very thread that LeBron is now the better player. He has more talent and more natural ability. But, if someone is arguing that Kobe is the better player--and it's still very much a debatable topic--it's not only free throw shooting that gives Kobe the edge. LeBron is better, but you cannot argue that he has more mental toughness or more of a killer instinct than Kobe. That's a failing argument.

Cavs almost eliminated Celtics

Lakers got destroyed by Celtics.

Enough said

[z0sa]

Cavs almost eliminated Celtics

Lakers got destroyed by Celtics.

Enough said

While matchups make a huge difference, that cavs team had no business taking Boston to 7. And there can only be one reason that happened: LeBron James.

[JamStone]

Cavs almost eliminated Celtics

Lakers got destroyed by Celtics.

Enough said

Ok. Let's play that game.

Lakers beat the Spurs.

Spurs swept the Cavaliers.

Stop with that bullshit. You want to argue that Joe Johnson is just as good as LeBron and better than Kobe as well? You know damn well that the NBA Finals is not the same as the Eastern Conference semifinals. And, Boston was playing some of its best basketball in the NBA Finals, while Ray Allen didn't even bother showing up against Cavaliers. But, I guess you can argue that Wally Szczerbiak is a defensive stopper now too.

edit: And, the Celtics destroyed the Lakers in one game, game 7. All the other games were close enough that the Lakers had chances to take the other three Boston wins.

[stretch]

LeBron led his team all the way to the NBA Finals and failed to lead that same team to one Finals win, not one, while shooting 36% from the field and 20% from the three point range (4-for-20). That Finals series included game 4 where the Cavaliers lost to the Spurs by 1 point and LeBron missed 4 free throws. LeBron averaged 5.8 turnovers in those 2007 NBA Finals.

In LeBron's first two games against the highly touted Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference semifinal playoff series last season, LeBron shot a whopping 19% (only up from 11% from game 1 because he shot lights out for 25% from the field in game 2) from the field and committed 17 turnovers.

In the pivotal game 5 at Boston, the Cavs had a 14 point lead late in the second quarter against the Celtics. In that game 5, from the time the Cavaliers were up 14 points, 43-29, with 3:49 left in the second quarter until the end of the third quarter, where the Celtics led 72-63, LeBron played all 15:49 minutes and went 1-for-6 from the field, including 1 shot blocked, had 2 points and 1 assist, committed 1 turnover and 1 foul, shot no free throws, and pulled down no rebounds. So, on that 43-20 run by the Celtics, LeBron's leadership was on full display. This was just last season by the way, a few months ago.


I've already said in this very thread that LeBron is now the better player. He has more talent and more natural ability. But, if someone is arguing that Kobe is the better player--and it's still very much a debatable topic--it's not only free throw shooting that gives Kobe the edge. LeBron is better, but you cannot argue that he has more mental toughness or more of a killer instinct than Kobe. That's a failing argument.

You can say all that, but fact is... Kobe gave up on his team, and multiple times. You can't say the same about Lebron.

Also... Kobe's cast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron's cast.

[stretch]

Ok. Let's play that game.

Lakers beat the Spurs.

Spurs swept the Cavaliers.


Kobes supporting cast > Lebron's supporting cast

Lebron has swept Kobe the past two years in their head to head matchups. In fact, the last time Kobe beat Lebron was January of 2006, and by 1 measly point. Lebron has owned Kobe for a long time now, despite having a far shittier squad.

[JamStone]

You can say all that, but fact is... Kobe gave up on his team, and multiple times. You can't say the same about Lebron.

Also... Kobe's cast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron's cast.

Why change the subject?

You argued my point that Kobe has more mental toughness and more of a killer instinct.

That post does not refute that.

Kobe gave up on his team that time against Phoenix. Ok. That doesn't suddenly mean he doesn't have more mental toughness or more of a killer instinct than LeBron overall. That is an example of Kobe quitting.

I can go back and cite Tayshaun Prince dunking on LeBron and blocking his shot in the same playoff series. That doesn't mean Tayshaun is the better athlete than LeBron because I have two examples of Tayshaun doing athletic things against LeBron.

Or, I can show some examples of LeBron missing dunks. Would those few examples support the notion that LeBron isn't one of the best dunkers in the league?

Do you know how to follow an argument?

I said Kobe was mentally tougher and had more of a killer instinct than LeBron. You ask if I was sure by saying LeBron is more of a leader. Not only does that not directly refute my point, but now you mention how Kobe quit on his team once in the playoffs as if that refutes my point as well. It doesn't. Heck, it isn't even in the same vein as the discussion. And, it's an example of Kobe being an ass.

Stay with the discussion. Stay with the argument.

[JamStone]

Kobes supporting cast > Lebron's supporting cast

Lebron has swept Kobe the past two years in their head to head matchups. In fact, the last time Kobe beat Lebron was January of 2006, and by 1 measly point. Lebron has owned Kobe for a long time now, despite having a far shittier squad.

You don't read well.

I already fucking said LeBron is the better player, you imbecile.

I was arguing someone's reasoning for their conclusion, not their conclusion.

LeBron > Kobe

I've said it several times in this thread.

R-E-A-D, P-L-E-A-S-E.

My arguments have been about specific traits of each player, the issue of mental toughness and killer instinct. While LeBron is the better player, Kobe has more mental toughness and more of a killer instinct. That's what I've been saying.

And, would you like to now argue how Paul Pierce is better than both LeBron and Kobe since he outplayed both of them in last season's playoffs and last night.

[TheMadHatter]

JamStone there is no point arguing with the stretch's and zosa's of this forum. They hate Kobe, I mean literally they hate the man for what he has done to their teams. It clouds their judgment and is clearly visible in biased postings.

The bottom line is this. Lebron still cannot shoot free throws or jumpshots at an acceptable rate for a superstar perimeter player. Until he does he will never reach MJ or Kobe's level. When the game is on the line, the last person you want to send to the line is Kobe. You KNOW Kobe is making those free throws just like you KNOW Kobe is hitting that last shot if you leave him open. What more proof of this can we look at other than the Olympics where Kobe and Lebron played together. The team unanimously gave Kobe the ball to close the game out while Lebron was camping out in the corner. And guess what, Kobe delivered.

[JamStone]

It's fine. I even gave it up for LeBron. He's the better athlete. He's the bigger, stronger, faster player. He has more natural talent than Kobe. LeBron is now a better player than Kobe. But, if we are going to dissect each player, each still has failings and flaws. And, each has different strengths over the other. Kobe is still the more clutch player, the mentally tougher player, the player with more of a killer instinct. Those are things LeBron still doesn't touch Kobe at. And, still I say LeBron is the better player.

Just learn how to read and follow the discussion before arguing with irrelevant and nonsensical points.

[TheMadHatter]

It's fine. I even gave it up for LeBron. He's the better athlete. He's the bigger, stronger, faster player. He has more natural talent than Kobe. LeBron is now a better player than Kobe. But, if we are going to dissect each player, each still has failings and flaws. And, each has different strengths over the other. Kobe is still the more clutch player, the mentally tougher player, the player with more of a killer instinct. Those are things LeBron still doesn't touch Kobe at. And, still I say LeBron is the better player.

Just learn how to read and follow the discussion before arguing with irrelevant and nonsensical points.

What do you mean by better player?

Lebron is certainly not more talented than Kobe. He has glaring weaknesses in his game that is overcompensated by his freakish athleticism. He does not share Kobe's work ethic or dedication to the game either. He's been in the league how many years and he's yet to significantly improve his F/T shooting.

More impactful player, yes. But *better* is debatable.

[JamStone]

You're getting into a semantical argument if you start arguing about definitions of the word "better."

Each of us, even ones that agree, don't have the same exact definition of what makes any player "better" than any other player. Kobe has more polished skill than LeBron. LeBron is bigger, stronger, faster. And, while LeBron's skill isn't at Kobe's level, that freakish combination of size, strength, and athleticism allows him to (as you say) over compensate for any of those failings so that he can outplay a guy like Kobe who has better polished skill. As stretch mentioned, LeBron has outplayed Kobe in the last few match-ups against each other. Not only has LeBron's team beaten Kobe's teams, LeBron has individually played better than Kobe, has been able to score on him, and even shut him down defensively the last couple times they met.

I say Kobe has more skill. But, I do sincerely believe LeBron is now the better player.

[KidCongo]

The bottom line is this. Lebron still cannot shoot free throws or jumpshots at an acceptable rate for a superstar perimeter player. Until he does he will never reach MJ or Kobe's level.

Lucky he plays to his strengths and is the games best finisher inside.

[TheMadHatter]

Lucky he plays to his strengths and is the games best finisher inside.

Are you this fucking dense?

Being a superstar player means your team counts on you to close games out. When you're a perimeter player who can't shoot free throws or jumpshots you simply aren't on the level of MJ or Kobe when the game is on the line.

[KidCongo]

Are you this fucking dense?

Being a superstar player means your team counts on you to close games out. When you're a perimeter player who can't shoot free throws or jumpshots you simply aren't on the level of MJ or Kobe when the game is on the line.

I think the Cavs had the most come from behind wins in the 4th Q last year. LeBron led the league in 4th Q scoring.

Please look at this.
http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Its not just scoring he leads Kobe in, in the 'clutch' ratings. Leads Kobe in blocks, steals, rebounds, assists, less turnovers, field goal %.

Kobe is 84% FT
LeBron is 79% FT

Kobe is much better in 3pt% but doesn't nearly attempt as many.

Kobe also shoots .430% EFG on jumpshots in the clutch, whilst James shoots .452%.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07CLE13E.HTM

http://www.82games.com/0708/07LAL7E.HTM

[Obstructed_View]

I liked the House Party dance.

[LA24]

Kobe's more like a Duncan and Lebron is more like a Shaq (fewer skills, all physical). At time's, Shaq dominated Duncan, but when it's all said and done,
Duncan > Shaq.

Someone earlier mentioned:
Lebron 1a, Kobe 1b. I think that's about right "at this point in time."

But at the end of both their careers, I'd still place my bet on Kobe being
considered a greater basketball player. Kobe's all around game and skill sets will allow him to be a threat even when he gets up there in age when athleticism plays less of a factor.

[LA24]

Please look at this.
http://82games.com/CSORT11.HTM



Are you getting Hollinger on us now ? Busting out stats and numbers ?
Even Ginoboli's stats on that look better than Kobe's. :lol
Didn't Manu have a higher PER than Kobe once ?

How bout this, 10 seconds left, tie game...would you want Kobe or Lebron shooting against your team ? According to the majority of GM's in the league, it's Kobe.

So much for you "clutch" stats.

[mystargtr34]

Kobe's more like a Duncan and Lebron is more like a Shaq (fewer skills, all physical). At time's, Shaq dominated Duncan, but when it's all said and done,
Duncan > Shaq.
Someone earlier mentioned:
Lebron 1a, Kobe 1b. I think that's about right "at this point in time."

But at the end of both their careers, I'd still place my bet on Kobe being
considered a greater basketball player. Kobe's all around game and skill sets will allow him to be a threat even when he gets up there in age when athleticism plays less of a factor.

Thats a pretty good comparison.

And id have to disagree with JamStone saying LeBron is the more naturally talented player. LeBron is definately more physically gifted, in terms of size strength and athelticism, but the overall skill level and the ease and smoothness at which Kobe does some of the things he does, you cant work to get that, and you dont learn that. I think he is definately more naturally talented than LeBron.

I cant split them.

[dirk4mvp]

Kobe's more like a Duncan and Lebron is more like a Shaq (fewer skills, all physical). At time's, Shaq dominated Duncan, but when it's all said and done,
Duncan > Shaq.

Someone earlier mentioned:
Lebron 1a, Kobe 1b. I think that's about right "at this point in time."

But at the end of both their careers, I'd still place my bet on Kobe being
considered a greater basketball player. Kobe's all around game and skill sets will allow him to be a threat even when he gets up there in age when athleticism plays less of a factor.


Was Kobe as polished as he is now when he was LeBron's age?

[stretch]

I said Kobe was mentally tougher and had more of a killer instinct than LeBron.

My point the whole time is to fucking prove this shit you dickfaced stupidfuck.

[stretch]

You don't read well.

I already fucking said LeBron is the better player, you imbecile.

after saying this?


Hell no. Kobe is still better.

Please tell me you were just joking when posting the latter quote.

[JamStone]

after saying this?



Please tell me you were just joking when posting the latter quote.

You're a fucking retard. It was after the Lakers game and I quoted myself as in arguing with myself, you ass. I was making a joke. Again, learn to read.

[JamStone]

My point the whole time is to fucking prove this shit you dickfaced stupidfuck.

And, nothing that you argued with actually refuted that point, you pussyfaced cumstain.

[z0sa]

JamStone there is no point arguing with the stretch's and zosa's of this forum. They hate Kobe, I mean literally they hate the man for what he has done to their teams. It clouds their judgment and is clearly visible in biased postings.

The truth is I appreciate Kobe's game very much, in fact love it. Anyone who can make Bowen their bitch even twice is someone who can play basketball. His defense when applied is stellar.

There is no hate for Kobe's game, and his game is the only reason anyone even knows his name. So don't talk out of your ass.

[stretch]

You're a fucking retard. It was after the Lakers game and I quoted myself as in arguing with myself, you ass. I was making a joke. Again, learn to read.

It was hard to tell, considering it came in the midst of about 500 other posters who were jumping all over Lebron for the missed FTs in the game and how Kobe is better, and you seemed like you were one of them.

Maybe if you weren't such a serious dickhead all the time, it wouldn't have been percieved that way.

[stretch]

And, nothing that you argued with actually refuted that point, you pussyfaced cumstain.

How exactly are you proving your point?

[LA24]

Was Kobe as polished as he is now when he was LeBron's age?

When Kobe was 24 (Lebron's current age), he had more bounce to his steps (obviously) and was able to do a bit more "tricks" physically. And IMO, a 24 year old Kobe would beat today's Kobe at 1 on 1. So that Kobe would still be on par with today's Lebron. But I'd give Lebron the edge maturity wise/leadership.

Kobe may not jump as high or be as explosive as he was back then, but he's much wiser now at picking his spots for attack points. He reads defenses much better now as well. I don't think Lebron has the amount of knowledge Kobe does of the game (but that'll come with age and experience). Just listen to how Kobe talks about the game, this guy knows his shit and he's a nerd at studying game films. Kobe's obsession about the game is > than Lebron's obsession of the game. Kobe's work ethic and ability to play through injury/pain > Lebron's. Kobe's a basketball nerd whereas Lebron's more socially skilled, more outspoken, has more natural ability at leading. Kobe has opened up more these last few years though,whereas he used to be a hermit back then.

But a 32-80 year old Kobe would definetly be better than a 32-80 year old Lebron (unless Lebron starts working on other aspects of his game pronto...cuz at this pace, he'll never catch up to Bryant skill wise...it's not even close). Kobe would kill Lebron 1 on 1 if they should play in their 60's. Kobe would still have all his "playground tricks." (Btw, off topic, Kobe would never lose a game of horse to a beach baller (or shoot an air ball in one). Trick shots/trick dribbles are his specialty.
Look at some of Kobe's high school to first few years of nba video clips. Him, AI, White chocolate, are some of the guys that inspired those "And 1" stuff.)

Sure Lebron may be quicker and stronger now and can be a bit more dominant in games than Kobe, but when it's all said and done,
Kobe will still be > than Lebron just as Duncan will be > than Shaq. IMHO.

[z0sa]

pussyfaced cumstain

:lol

[JamStone]

It was hard to tell, considering it came in the midst of about 500 other posters who were jumping all over Lebron for the missed FTs in the game and how Kobe is better, and you seemed like you were one of them.

Maybe if you weren't such a serious dickhead all the time, it wouldn't have been percieved that way.

First clue, while disagreeing with the quote I posted, I QUOTED MY DAM SELF. You have to be a fucking fool not to understand that... oh wait. Ok.



How exactly are you proving your point?

Here it is again. You don't have a response, you change topic by trying to flip it. Kobe has more mental toughness because he doesn't let shit phase him. He doesn't miss key free throws at the ends of games. He isn't hesitant to take a game winning shot. He has more killer instinct because when he sees opponents.

And, it's not only that Kobe is mentally tougher and has more killer instinct. It's that LeBron has been so inconsistent with his. He continues to miss free throws. He still struggles sometimes whether to take over and even allows teammates to try to take over because LeBron sometimes gets hesitant.

Two nights ago was a prime example, where LeBron missed two important free throws with seconds left in the game and Mo Williams being the one taking the big shot to try to get back in the game.

And, the Olympics showed why Kobe is mentally tougher and is more clutch and has more killer instinct. The one close game they played, the gold medal match against Spain, when things got close late in the game and players on Team USA needed someone to take over, it was Kobe. LeBron and Kobe on the same team, and it was Kobe. Kobe was mentally tougher, more clutch, more of a killer. It was him. Not LeBron. And, afterwards when asked about it, Kobe says, "it was fun." Kobe loves the pressure. LeBron is still trying to figure out whether or not he's up to the task. He's been successful before in those situations, but he's not the ice cold killer Kobe is. And, that's the difference.

You talked about LeBron being a better leader. Where was LeBron when Spain made it a--what 2 point--game in that gold medal match? Clearing out of the way for Kobe.

To me, LeBron is a better player. Kobe is the mentally tougher, cold blooded assassin you want to close games.

Your silly points don't prove LeBron is mentally tougher or has more of a killer instinct. They are just slams on Kobe. And, you didn't even address those examples of LeBron not exactly being a leader against Celtics and the Spurs... conveniently.

But, of course, instead of responding on point to real arguments, you just say, "what did you do?" Trying to flip the script. SMH. Sad as fuck.

[stretch]

First clue, while disagreeing with the quote I posted, I QUOTED MY DAM SELF. You have to be a fucking fool not to understand that... oh wait. Ok.

To me, it seemed like you were waffling on your earlier statement, and many people waffle back and forth between whether they think Kobe or Lebron is better.


Here it is again. You don't have a response, you change topic by trying to flip it.

I didn't change any fucking topic you worthless piece of shit. You keep on insisting that Kobe was more strong, and I disagreed and posted examples that showed some serious weaknesses in Kobe's mental strengths.

You simply dismissed them, and said "oh thats only a couple examples so they don't count". So I asked for your examples, in which you proceeded to post what you said here, which was no different than what I posted... ONE OR TWO FUCKING EXAMPLES.

Fact is, the times Lebron has fucked up, its NEVER been due to a lack of heart, killer instinct, or leadership (which are simply natural things that cannot really be developed) but rather due to undeveloped portions of his game, which can be worked on and developed. Kobe is completely the opposite. His shortcomings have consistently been tied to his mental game, which has massive holes.



And, you didn't even address those examples of LeBron not exactly being a leader against Celtics and the Spurs... conveniently.

But, of course, instead of responding on point to real arguments, you just say, "what did you do?" Trying to flip the script. SMH. Sad as fuck.

Lebron did a hell of a job against the Celtics. The Celtics CLEARLY were a deeper and more talented team, and he still managed to pretty much singlehandedly push them to the final seconds of a 7 game series. What did Kobe do, with a team that was MUCH more comparable in talent to the Celtics, as opposed to the Cavliers? Blow a 20+ point lead in a pivotal game, and then let his team reciever a 40 point curbstomping in their elimination game.

Despite both of them being defended pretty well, what did they do when their shots weren't falling? Lebron was getting to the line, as evidenced by his 13 FTAs a game, as opposed to Kobe only averaging 8 FTAs a game. Kobe was settling for jumpers, which led massively to blowing that huge lead.

Another thing to consider... when people pick Cleveland to win, is it because of their team, or because of the fact that they have Lebron James? Because of Lebron, every fucking time.

On the other hand, why are people picking Los Angeles to win? Because of Kobe, or because they appear to have one of the most complete teams in the league? Because they have a damn good and loaded team. Kobe really has absolutely no reason to not win a title this year, barring injuries. If this team stays healthy, and they do not win the title, I don't think there should be any question ever again about who is better between him and Kobe, ESPECIALLY in the mental department.

And the spurs crap is ridiculous. The spurs were simply a better team... MUCH better. Fucking ridiculous to even try to use that as an example. The cavs never had an upper hand or anything positive going for them for that series. Lebron did what he could do, in trying to keep the games as close as possible. His team simply sucked too much. And there has NEVER been a single playoff series in which the team Lebron faced, simply had less all around talent. His teams have ALWAYS been outmatched in terms of talent, but he still combats that and finds ways to beat teams like Washington, New Jersey, and Detroit. Lebron has done a damn good job of trying to get the best out of his team and finding ways to give his team the best chance to win every game. Better than any player in the NBA right now, by far.

[TheMadHatter]

Actually the Cavs are a very good defensive team. It's what makes them so good in the playoffs IMHO. It's why they pushed the Celtics to 7 games.....well that an Ray Allen going 0-90 from 3pt land :)

[stretch]

Actually the Cavs are a very good defensive team. It's what makes them so good in the playoffs IMHO. It's why they pushed the Celtics to 7 games.....well that an Ray Allen going 0-90 from 3pt land :)

I agree they are a good defensive team, but a lot of it also is because of the pace at which they play. Lebron drawing fouls and getting to the line as frequently as he does helps with the pace factor quite a bit.

[TheMadHatter]

Lebron isn't at Kobe's level in some very key areas of the game:

Jumpshooting
Free throws
Post up play

If he truly desires to be GOAT he needs to dedicate himself to the game like Kobe and MJ do/did. Clearly he did not do that this summer.

[stretch]

Lebron isn't at Kobe's level in some very key areas of the game:

Jumpshooting
Free throws
Post up play

If he truly desires to be GOAT he needs to dedicate himself to the game like Kobe and MJ do/did.

I agree completely with that.


Clearly he did not do that this summer.

Well, since we are on the topic of "Let's make an assessment of a player one or two games into the season"...

Since Kobe is only averaging 19 ppg, he clearly is on the decline of his career and has lost his scoring touch, while Danny Granger and Tim Duncan will battle it out for the scoring championship.

:rolleyes

Enough with the knee-jerk reactions and complete assessments after one fucking game.

[JamStone]

Underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game? Making a free throw? Not demanding the ball in a clutch situation? Passing up an open lay up attempt to kick it out to a three pointer? Those aren't underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game. That's lack of a killer instinct. Missing clutch free throws isn't an underdeveloped part of his game. It's not being mentally tough enough. It's not fatigue. It's not lack of practice. Clutch free throws is about mental focus, mental toughness.

Taking over in that close gold medal match is about being a killer, an assassin, a closer. Kobe is more of one than LeBron. I didn't say LeBron isn't a closer at all. I didn't say LeBron had no mental toughness at all. I said Kobe has more.

It's not about failing in clutch situations. All players fail sometimes. LeBron has failed in the clutch. Kobe has failed in the clutch. The difference is that Kobe isn't afraid to fail and won't question himself. LeBron is not that way. He questions himself sometimes, not only at the foul line, but in decision making whether to pass, drive, or shoot.

You act as if pushing the Celtics to 7 games early in the playoffs is that much better than making it to the NBA Finals and going 6 games. Horse shit. And, LeBron still fucked up in games 1 and 2 and at the end of game 7. You talk as if it was all on Kobe that the Lakers lost that 20 point lead against the Celtics, but when I give you a specific example of where LeBron does something similar where it's really on him as the leader of the Cavs in game 5 against Boston, nothing. That 43-20 run the Celtics had in game 5 against the Cavs in about a 16 minute span, LeBron went to the free throw line zero times, took 3 three point shots, went 1-for-6 from the field, including getting his shit blocked once. Fuck your "LeBron is a better leader" argument. That game 5 was there to be had for the Cavs. Where the fuck was LeBron when the Celtics turned a 14 point deficit into a 9 point lead? Where was LeBron's leadership there? You fucking assclown. Same shit you rag on Kobe for, and you tuck tail and run behind your stupid fucking insults. You're a moron.

And, why is the Spurs example ridiculous when my main example was game 4 where the Spurs won by one single fucking point and LeBron missed four free throws. The Spurs weren't "that" much better in that particular game if they only won by one point. One point. Four missed free throws. Spurs can't guard LeBron at the free throw line. That's absolutely on point with the discussion about being mentally tough and having a killer instinct.

Go fuck a fire hydrant, stretch. You're a retarded shit stain on LeBron's game underwear.

[stretch]

Underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game? Making a free throw? Not demanding the ball in a clutch situation? Passing up an open lay up attempt to kick it out to a three pointer? Those aren't underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game. That's lack of a killer instinct. Missing clutch free throws isn't an underdeveloped part of his game. It's not being mentally tough enough. It's not fatigue. It's not lack of practice. Clutch free throws is about mental focus, mental toughness.

Taking over in that close gold medal match is about being a killer, an assassin, a closer. Kobe is more of one than LeBron. I didn't say LeBron isn't a closer at all. I didn't say LeBron had no mental toughness at all. I said Kobe has more.

It's not about failing in clutch situations. All players fail sometimes. LeBron has failed in the clutch. Kobe has failed in the clutch. The difference is that Kobe isn't afraid to fail and won't question himself. LeBron is not that way. He questions himself sometimes, not only at the foul line, but in decision making whether to pass, drive, or shoot.

You act as if pushing the Celtics to 7 games early in the playoffs is that much better than making it to the NBA Finals and going 6 games. Horse shit. And, LeBron still fucked up in games 1 and 2 and at the end of game 7. You talk as if it was all on Kobe that the Lakers lost that 20 point lead against the Celtics, but when I give you a specific example of where LeBron does something similar where it's really on him as the leader of the Cavs in game 5 against Boston, nothing. That 43-20 run the Celtics had in game 5 against the Cavs in about a 16 minute span, LeBron went to the free throw line zero times, took 3 three point shots, went 1-for-6 from the field, including getting his shit blocked once. Fuck your "LeBron is a better leader" argument. That game 5 was there to be had for the Cavs. Where the fuck was LeBron when the Celtics turned a 14 point deficit into a 9 point lead? Where was LeBron's leadership there? You fucking assclown. Same shit you rag on Kobe for, and you tuck tail and run behind your stupid fucking insults. You're a moron.

And, why is the Spurs example ridiculous when my main example was game 4 where the Spurs won by one single fucking point and LeBron missed four free throws. The Spurs weren't "that" much better in that particular game if they only won by one point. One point. Four missed free throws. Spurs can't guard LeBron at the free throw line. That's absolutely on point with the discussion about being mentally tough and having a killer instinct.

Go fuck a fire hydrant, stretch. You're a retarded shit stain on LeBron's game underwear.

I had a nice long reply to your whole post, but figured I would save myself some time with this...

Since 2005-2006 season (the season both kobe and lebron started leading their teams into the playoffs), here are their playoff records:

Lebron: 24-20
Kobe: 14-15

Lebron > Kobe when it counts.

Die.

[JamStone]

Still don't know how to fucking follow an argument.

Wins are team accomplishments.

We've been talking about mental toughness and killer instinct.

I could go into that stupid fucking stat and say put the Cavaliers in the Western Conference and the Lakers in the Eastern Conference, and LeBron might not even have any playoff appearances.

You don't know how to follow an argument, support an argument, or refute an argument.

Plain as day, you are a moronic imbecile. Yes, it needs to be doubly stated.

Since 2005-06, when it counts, LeBron has zero championships and Kobe has zero championships.

You don't evaluate mental toughness and killer instinct by team wins or team championships. It's the individual play. We're comparing individual players.

How much of a fucking retard are you?

Get your fucking G.E.D. already.

[stretch]

Still don't know how to fucking follow an argument.

Wins are team accomplishments.

We've been talking about mental toughness and killer instinct.

I could go into that stupid fucking stat and say put the Cavaliers in the Western Conference and the Lakers in the Eastern Conference, and LeBron might not even have any playoff appearances.

You don't know how to follow an argument, support an argument, or refute an argument.

Plain as day, you are a moronic imbecile. Yes, it needs to be doubly stated.

Since 2005-06, when it counts, LeBron has zero championships and Kobe has zero championships.

You don't evaluate mental toughness and killer instinct by team wins or team championships. It's the individual play. We're comparing individual players.

How much of a fucking retard are you?

Get your fucking G.E.D. already.

Lebron: 24-20
Kobe: 14-15

Lebron > Kobe when it counts.

[JamStone]

You're the bitch who blames LeBron's teammates for losing to the Spurs and Celtics.

Now, you give all the credit to LeBron for his wins.

You're a joke.

Kobe and LeBron on the same team, Kobe the closer.

Kobe 3 titles
LeBron 0 titles

Kobe 1 League MVP
LeBron 0 League MVPs

Again, study up.

[stretch]

You're the bitch who blames LeBron's teammates for losing to the Spurs and Celtics.

Now, you give all the credit to LeBron for his wins.

You're a joke.

Kobe and LeBron on the same team, Kobe the closer.

Kobe 3 titles
LeBron 0 titles

Kobe 1 League MVP
LeBron 0 League MVPs

Again, study up.

lol, riled up

[RsxPiimp]

stretch and the hater are biggest idiots in this thread.


they're like george bush and sarah palin.

[turiaf for president]

stretch and the hater are biggest idiots in this thread.


they're like george bush and sarah palin.

which ones the bitch?

[JamStone]

lol, riled up

Like your last couple posts, and frankly most of your posts, no substance, just nonsense.

Not unexpected.

And, sure, your stupidity riled me up.

[stretch]

Like your last couple posts, and frankly most of your posts, no substance, just nonsense.

Not unexpected.

And, sure, your stupidity riled me up.

lol, posting about something other than the debate at hand

[RsxPiimp]

which ones the bitch?

stretch sounds like something a vagina would use for a username so im guessing she takes that title.

[stretch]

stretch sounds like something a vagina would use for a username so im guessing she takes that title.

:lol

that was pretty funny i must say

[TheMadHatter]

damn stretch got owned

[KidCongo]

Cavs win by large margin and LeBron plays 30 mins. It's a good day.