The Official: Show some love to MATT BONNER!

[Joe Schmoogins]

8 points, 7 boards, 1 block, 2 threes tonight. Well done Matt keep up the good work!:toast

[tp2021]

I don't think we need a facility the size of a church, so...


Treehouse of Bonner!

[Many PackYao]

I love u Matt!!Keep up clanking those three-pointers when you play against the Rockets!kthx bye!:toast

[m33p0]

:lol

[dbreiden83080]

Fuck Bonner, he is clueless out there. He plays no D, can't rebound for shit, is a streaky shooter and is soft as vanilla ice cream. Other than that, he rocks...

[HarlemHeat37]

I'll give him some credit..

he's a VERY good 3-point shooter..but other than that, he sucks at everything..it's sad though, because I don't wanna hate on him..he seems like a good guy..

-he gets down on himself and loses confidence too easily..
-he can't defend consistently..
-he can't rebound..
-he lacks toughness..he had a few rebounds STOLEN from him tonight, and one was stolen by the pussy Boris Diaw IIRC..
-he can't pass..

[Dex]

I'm done trying to pretend like this dude is gonna work out.

I just wish Pop would get with the same notion.

[ss1986v2]

im going to give him a bit of love. he looked adequate during the 2nd quarter. he looked good on defense for bonner (ie, not actually good, but not atrocious) and he actually showed a spark of confidence out there.

but apparently they have a mirror or something in the looker room, because he came out in the 2nd half having noticed that he was indeed still matt bonner, and then proceeded to play like it.

but for 6 or 7 minutes last night, boy was he adequate...

[tp2021]

I think Tim getting in his face will light a fire under his ass. It can't hurt.

[Spur-Addict]

I'm done trying to pretend like this dude is gonna work out.

I just wish Pop would get with the same notion.

:lol

[byrdman31]

he was doing alright until he missed duncan down low wide open... and shot a three which he missed... then pop went off on him... after that it was same ol bonner

[duncan228]

Some Duncan love for Bonner.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/10-29-0814.jpg

[tp2021]

Some Duncan love for Bonner.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/10-29-0814.jpg

Nothing like tough love from a Hall of Famer to get your head out of your ass.

[Whisky Dog]

I'm done trying to pretend like this dude is gonna work out.

I just wish Pop would get with the same notion.


He has, and that's why Anthony Tolliver is on the team and Hairston isn't. Pop knows that Bonner is such a defensive liability that he just can't be on the court when it matters. Tonight his late or absent rotations gave some easy, easy baskets to Stoudemire in crunch time in a close game. The team defense was horrible tonight and Bonner was a big reason why. Another reason was Kurt Thomas was poor as well.

[SpurSupremacist]

Fuck Bonner, he is clueless out there. He plays no D, can't rebound for shit, is a streaky shooter and is soft as vanilla ice cream. Other than that, he rocks...

By can't rebound for shit, you mean had more rebounds than Duncan. AND the player who had 20/20 with Tim out last year.

By soft, you mean the player who made Garnett his bitch and threw him to the ground.

Stick to watching trailer park sports like the UFC, the NBA is above your level of comprehension.

[hater]

Pop gave him way too many minutes. Should have sat his ass down for the night mid 3rd quarter. (But I do understan we really had no other big on the bench)

Pop needs to realize bonner is a <10 minutes per game player. that's about it.

Get Oberto back. get mahinmi back. shit, get Tolliver in.

[The Truth #6]

For Bonner this was a step forward. Mistakes were made but there were positive moments, more than usual, and the important thing is for him not to get down on himself. He should follow Finley's example. That dude has plenty of reason to get down on himself but somehow keeps on going, and that could be the main reason Pop sticks with him. It sure isn't anything quantifiable in the box score.

[Whisky Dog]

By soft, you mean the player who made Garnett his bitch and threw him to the ground.


I know you like Bonner, but it's more than obvious that he's a huge defensive liability who just doesn't stay in front of mobile bigs and is either late or non-existent on his rotations. He's been that way since day 1, and that isn't going to change in his 3rd year. Once Tolliver and Oberto get back I'm sure Bonner's minutes are getting slashed to nil.

[hater]

the important thing is for him not to get down on himself. He should follow Finley's example.

Finley's example??

no. Bonner needs to follow The Machine Vujachick's example. That dude is not afraid to suck any given night.

Bonner at least needs to go down firing away.

Bonner needs to stop looking at Spurs bench any time he makes a stupid ass play.

Bonner needs to start talking shit to the refs and to the opposing players.

Fuck. Bonner needs to show he has some balls for a change.

[SpurSupremacist]

I know you like Bonner, but it's more than obvious that he's a huge defensive liability who just doesn't stay in front of mobile bigs and is either late or non-existent on his rotations. He's been that way since day 1, and that isn't going to change in his 3rd year. Once Tolliver and Oberto get back I'm sure Bonner's minutes are getting slashed to nil.

Yes, I like Bonner, and there's a reason for it. It's because he can play. He can board and shoot the 3. Hey, it's tough to play good D when the referees call you for a foul every play, simply because you're guarding a star and your hair is red. And that's the damn truth.

[Spurtacus]

Some Duncan love for Bonner.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/10-29-0814.jpg

*Duncan trying to find the fuse for the Red Rocket*

[Spurtacus]

Bonner exceeded my expectations tonight. But, I don't want to get use to seeing him playing 30 minutes a game. No. Just no.

[angelbelow]

he is a good shooter.. but its obvious he shouldnt play too much..

[Obstructed_View]

There's not one of you that wouldn't take that stat line every night of the week from Bonner.

[Budkin]

Zero basketball IQ. He's not good... at all.

[Manufan909]

There's not one of you that wouldn't take that stat line every night of the week from Bonner.

But not the ass plays that came with it.

[sexinthatsx]

If you guys are going to expect Matt Bonner to fulfill the position Robert Horry once had, it's be nearly impossible because the truth of the matter is that Matt Bonner will never (well, maybe never) be as clutch of a 3 shooter as Robert Horry, not to mention the defense. Granted, watching Matt Bonner shoot he has a very quick release, and that's probably the only thing he has left going for him...

[Obstructed_View]

But not the ass plays that came with it.
Yeah, you'll have to list all of them, because if you think that he made too many mistakes against Diaw, Amare and Shaq, then your standards are WAY too fuckin' high.

[mystargtr34]

8 points and 7 rebounds looks alright for Matt Bonner, expect he was on the court for 30 minutes. Thats just not good enough, not enough production.

[pauls931]

I love Matt Boner, I recommend you play him at least 40 mins a night with his 8 minutes off in the 2nd quarter.

[ORION]

I bet Amare loves him too

[Mad Bonner]

Did I fall short of my projected 22 points?
Yes.
Did I fall short of my projected rebounds?
Yes.
Do I still get paid millions of dollars?!
YES!
Do I give two shits about what you all think?
NO!
Did I pass on my post game hooker frenzy?
NO!

Suck on deez nuts bitches!!!!!

[ElNono]

8 points and 7 rebounds looks alright for Matt Bonner, expect he was on the court for 30 minutes. Thats just not good enough, not enough production.

Amare outscored him in the 4th quarter alone. Not that I'm comparing Amare with Bonner, but Matt was supposed to be guarding him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Every team needs a ginger and he is ours. I like Bonner.

[Mad Bonner]

Every team needs a ginger and he is ours. I like Bonner.

One the day of judgement I will spare you.

[cheguevara]

he sucked in 2nd half

[Mad Bonner]

I love Matt Boner, I recommend you play him at least 40 mins a night with his 8 minutes off in the 2nd quarter.


And I love you. I recommend that you gargle my balls for 40 mins a night.

[Mad Bonner]

he sucked in 2nd half


Yeah but you've sucked your whole life.

[cheguevara]

Yeah but you've sucked your whole life.

Bonner even sucks at trolling :lol

[DPG21920]

Amare outscored him in the 4th quarter alone. Not that I'm comparing Amare with Bonner, but Matt was supposed to be guarding him.

You do realize that Amare schools the Spurs, even in the playoffs. He is more than capable of averaging 30 a night in the playoffs against one of the Spurs best defensive teams.

[DPG21920]

he sucked in 2nd half

Yes he did, but as I have said it looks like a confidence issue not a skill issue. His first half was more than solid on both ends. He just needs to put a full game together. He looks to everyone when he makes a mistake; Manu doesn't do that. Just play. He is going to make mistakes, but he needs to focus on his strengths: shooting when he is open and hustling his ass off.

[romad_20]

Yes he did, but as I have said it looks like a confidence issue not a skill issue. His first half was more than solid on both ends. He just needs to put a full game together. He looks to everyone when he makes a mistake; Manu doesn't do that. Just play. He is going to make mistakes, but he needs to focus on his strengths: shooting when he is open and hustling his ass off.

This is year 3. He's not going to get any confindence. Remember the play last year where he had 10 footer to win the game and missed? That play is what we're going to get from Bonner, close but always falling short. Hopefully Ian can get his minutes. I would rather have size and rebounding than spotty 3-point shooting and crappy defense.

[Mad Bonner]

And I would rather have a 14 incher instead of a 13 and a halfer but I work with what I got.

[DPG21920]

This is year 3. He's not going to get any confindence. Remember the play last year where he had 10 footer to win the game and missed? That play is what we're going to get from Bonner, close but always falling short. Hopefully Ian can get his minutes. I would rather have size and rebounding than spotty 3-point shooting and crappy defense.

Remember when he won us the game last year when Tim was hurt against Golden State by posting a 20/20 game? I will be the first to admit he has had more bad moments than good, but it is not a skill thing. It is a mind thing. IF he can put that together and toughen up (knowing he is going to play should help) then he can help.

[romad_20]

IF he can put that together and toughen up (knowing he is going to play should help) then he can help.

That's a big if. I hope you are right, I just have not seen the evidence. I was also surprised with Tim's scolding of Bonner. Bonner didn't look like he was too happy about it at the time, and Tim showed some real emotion.

[I. Hustle]

People sure love to mention that ONE 20/20 game. One out of 82 doesn't cut it.

[DPG21920]

People sure love to mention that ONE 20/20 game. One out of 82 doesn't cut it.

It shows potential. It shows that he does have the skill. He has done wayyy more bad than good, but with time and the right attitude he can help. He will not be a 20/10 guy, but he can space the floor, rebound, defend in the post adequately and hustle. Only time will tell. This will be the first year where he gets a lot of minutes. I am not saying he will turn out good, but that I have seen enough flashes to show he can.

[I. Hustle]

Alot of players show potential and do jack. He played one good game in 2 years.

[Reggie Miller]

I'm showing lots of love to Matt Bonner by every second I refrain from hunting him down for sport.

Hell, he'd probably suck at that too. Gingers that tall don't have much natural camouflage.

[z0sa]

You do realize that Amare schools the Spurs, even in the playoffs. He is more than capable of averaging 30 a night in the playoffs against one of the Spurs best defensive teams.

Exactly - Bonner did not just good, but exceptional against one of the most athletic big men in the L. And although he was outrebounded a couple times by a smaller man, thats THEIR man to box out, not Bonner, who was tied up on Amare.

So ... how is that even Bonner's fault Barnes got it over him? He's supposed to box out two guys at once now, one of them being Amare f'n Stoudemire?

[z0sa]

Alot of players show potential and do jack. He played one good game in 2 years.

Inconsistent PT = inconsistent play

[DPG21920]

With players that lack confidence like Bonner, putting him in the dog house makes him play worse and less confident. I am not saying Pop should coddle him, but some players you can ride hard (TP) some you cannot (Bonner). You have to coach him up. He will get his chances to prove his worth, it could go either way. I am just saying Bonner has shown enough to warrant a chance and the support of fans.

[z0sa]

With players that lack confidence like Bonner, putting him in the dog house makes him play worse and less confident. I am not saying Pop should coddle him, but some players you can ride hard (TP) some you cannot (Bonner). You have to coach him up. He will get his chances to prove his worth, it could go either way. I am just saying Bonner has shown enough to warrant a chance and the support of fans.

No doubt at all, but you have to remember that, according to ST, Bonner's contract is the reason we couldnt sign Maggette or anyone else decent this offseason (apparently Mason wasnt enough for most, though he shut some mouths last night)

[DPG21920]

Even without Bonner's contract, the Spurs still would of been over the salary cap and still would of only had the MLE to offer.

[I. Hustle]

It seems that either of you are MAD about BONNER

[DPG21920]

It seems that either of you are MAD about BONNER

It seems that you are a FAN of the SPURS and not a FAN of BASKETBALL

[I. Hustle]

Hey I am a basketball fan. Don't question that bro.



seriously that narrows it down to z0sa.

[lurker23]

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I've long said that Matt Bonner can be a good NBA player, he just needs to get some solid playing time. I thought he looked good last night, despite some bad moments. No matter what, though, he has to prove himself on the floor.

[SequSpur]

Matt Bonner couldn't get playing time for the Memphis Grizzlies.

[romad_20]

The best thing he's ever done is piss off Kevin Garnett.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Bonner, you're a PIMP

[peacemaker885]

Wooohooooo! Good job Matt!

[SpursFanFirst]

good game, matty b! :clap

[SpursFan0728]

good job Bonner

your were clutch for us today

[remingtonbo2001]

Props to Big Red. :clap

[Spurs Brazil]

Good job today

11pts (3-4 3PT)

[HarlemHeat37]

he actually showed a little confidence tonight..he didn't look at Pop, he didn't hesitate to shoot the open shot..great game for Bonner..

[timvp]

I had given up on Bonner but he looked pretty damn good tonight. He wasn't his typical goofy self ... he was more stoic and businesslike.

Plus he hit the first clutch shot of his Spurs career. This is the Bonner the Spurs thought they had when they signed him to that contract.

[SequSpur]

I had given up on Bonner but he looked pretty damn good tonight. He wasn't his typical goofy self ... he was more stoic and businesslike.

Plus he hit the first clutch shot of his Spurs career. This is the Bonner the Spurs thought they had when they signed him to that contract.

dude, go pick him up and give him a hug.

[timvp]

dude, go pick him up and give him a hug.Why don't you go apologize to his sock.

[SequSpur]

Why don't you go apologize to his sock.

so in 6 games he does a few tricks and you get all on his back... dude.. come on....

[mVp]

Let's trade him now that he has some value!!! LOL

[galvatron3000]

Where's MAD Bonner when I need a very good laugh?

[SpursPreacher]

On this night bonner gets a good job lets hope its continues beyond midnight tonight.

[Manufan909]

I love u Matt!!Keep up clanking those three-pointers when you play against the Rockets!kthx bye!:toast

This is just too funny.:downspin::downspin::downspin:

[ShoogarBear]

Plus he hit the first clutch shot of his Spurs career.

No kidding. If he just hit the wide open shots he's always going to get in the clutch, everything else would be forgotten.

[tp2021]

Is Sequ a cool guy in person or something? Nobody seems to really call him on how shitty a poster he is.

[Obstructed_View]

Funny how all he has to do is hit a couple of shots. He's certainly capable of it. Let's hope he liked it enough to do it again.

[SpurSupremacist]

Bonner balling and tearing up the +/-? Am I surprised? Of course not.

[Manu-of-steel]

This is year 3. He's not going to get any confindence. Remember the play last year where he had 10 footer to win the game and missed? That play is what we're going to get from Bonner, close but always falling short. Hopefully Ian can get his minutes. I would rather have size and rebounding than spotty 3-point shooting and crappy defense.

ian won't get any minutes soon coz he's been assigned to the austin toros just this morning.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i say we stick to the plan and get out of the city, fukn bonner

[duncan228]

Bonner's 3-pointers spark Spurs' decisive late charge (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_Mahinmi_sent_to_Austin_for_conditioning.html )
By Mike Monroe

Don’t ask Spurs coach Gregg Popovich what prompted him to give forward Matt Bonner a healthy dose of playing time in Friday’s game against the Houston Rockets at the AT&T Center after keeping him chained to the bench in the previous two games.

Popovich isn’t in the habit of explaining his personnel decisions.

After his most productive game of the season, though, Bonner is apt to get another early call in Sunday’s game at Sacramento.

Bonner played 19 minutes and 37 seconds in the Spurs’ dramatic, 77-75 victory over the Rockets, and that included some key time in the fourth period. he made two 3-pointers in the final 4:20, when the Spurs reeled off 12 unanswered points to complete a comeback from a 14-point deficit for just their second home win of the season.

“Matt did a fine job,” Popovich said. “He was aggressive offensively. He focused well on defense and helped us win the basketball game.”

[Blackjack]

Popovich isn’t in the habit of explaining his personnel decisions.

I realize Monroe and others are just trying to do their job, but it never gets old seeing Pop make grown men cower like children.:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner's 3-pointers spark Spurs' decisive late charge (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_Mahinmi_sent_to_Austin_for_conditioning.html )
By Mike Monroe

Don’t ask Spurs coach Gregg Popovich what prompted him to give forward Matt Bonner a healthy dose of playing time in Friday’s game against the Houston Rockets at the AT&T Center after keeping him chained to the bench in the previous two games.

Popovich isn’t in the habit of explaining his personnel decisions.

After his most productive game of the season, though, Bonner is apt to get another early call in Sunday’s game at Sacramento.

Bonner played 19 minutes and 37 seconds in the Spurs’ dramatic, 77-75 victory over the Rockets, and that included some key time in the fourth period. he made two 3-pointers in the final 4:20, when the Spurs reeled off 12 unanswered points to complete a comeback from a 14-point deficit for just their second home win of the season.

“Matt did a fine job,” Popovich said. “He was aggressive offensively. He focused well on defense and helped us win the basketball game.”

Damn, girl, do you ever sleep?

[Avitus1]

He had a good game, doubt he'll keep it up.

[Jahivah]

No love here. One game does not make up for three years of ineptness. Hooray for him.

[Obstructed_View]

No love here. One game does not make up for three years of ineptness. Hooray for him.

You mean hooray for the Spurs, unless you'd have rather he missed his shots and the team lose, right?

[SenorSpur]

I gotta give "big ups" to the Big Redhead. Like many, I bitched and moaned because he was in the game, at Tolliver's expense. I also rolled my eyes when his first 3-pointer caromed off the rim. So, I just wanna stop and give him some love for now. 'Cause it may not happen again for a while. (I couldn't resist another backhanded swat on the way out). :lol

[Xylus]

I'm getting hard just thinking about that stat line.

[Manufan909]

I think this is the first time in his life as a Spur he can be considered clutch. He's rarely clutch, but the Spurs will take what they can get.

[SenorSpur]

I think this is the first time in his life as a Spur he can be considered clutch. He's rarely clutch, but the Spurs will take what they can get.

You're plumb right. I don't recall one clutch shot that he's made since he's been a Spurs. I do recall, however, him missing about 2-3 would-be clutch shots last season. Hope this will "spur" him to higher heights (pun intended)

[SpursFanFirst]

Damn, girl, do you ever sleep?

:lol I've wondered that same thing numerous times!

[SpurSupremacist]

I'm getting hard just thinking about that stat line.

You mean the 20/20 statline he put up last year when Duncan was out? That one?

[urunobili]

glad his trade stock is starting to rise... :devil

[m33p0]

Damn, girl, do you ever sleep?
she's a bot.

[Obstructed_View]

she's a bot.

Maybe we should start calling her "the machine"...

[8ft.tall.tejano]

i don't think we should trade him cos he sucks...
I think we should trade him cos pop don't trust him, if he can't get playing time, he's really worthless...
let him hit the floor against the shit teams, then throw him in w/JV and some cash(or a used Volvo) for a big...
all in all both are great guys, the red one has some potential on a team that'll let him play, JV can be an assistant for the Clippers or something, but we need fresh blood...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He's Horry with orange hair.

[jman3000]

I'd rather not.

Let's just say we showed him love, yeah?

[PeterBurns]

Need to have a big shot like that to spur a good season.
The Spurs need Bonner to contribute on this team until #20 and #9 get back to stay in the race.

This was a huge win, and a huge shot for Bonner.
Hopefully this is a building block for both

[duncan228]

she's a bot.


Maybe we should start calling her "the machine"...

Can I be a Duncan-bot? :)

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/oddsandends/robot.jpg

[Obstructed_View]

Can I be a Duncan-bot? :)

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/oddsandends/robot.jpg

I just thought the nickname "the machine" sounded a lot cooler on an actual girl. ;)

You need an official title around here. "Newsbabe" isn't too demeaning, is it? :wow

[Manufan909]

Sexism alert, sexism alert!!!!! Run for your lives!!!!!!!

[MrChug]

I'll give the motherfucker some props if he can AVERAGE that shit...one night after many a shitty one does not appreciation manifest.

[duncan228]

You need an official title around here. "Newsbabe" isn't too demeaning, is it? :wow

Will they still call me 'dude' if 'babe' is in my name? :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Will they still call me 'dude' if 'babe' is in my name? :lol

Two birds, one stone. I'd imagine you could still keep your spur.

[SpurSupremacist]

I'll give the motherfucker some props if he can AVERAGE that shit...one night after many a shitty one does not appreciation manifest.

And I bet you were one of the people that loved having Robert Horry around.

[z0sa]

Matt Fucking Bonner:

27mins
4-9 shooting (3-5 three pointers) for 11 points
7 rebounds
1 assist
2 steals

Additionally, had a +/- of +5

GO SPURS GO

[HarlemHeat37]

Matt Bonner was great again..this time, with his all-around game..solid defensively, solid on the boards and made a few good passes..he also drove to the basket twice aggressively and made one(the other one was missed partly due to bad spacing)..

[timvp]

Second straight damn good game.

This is what the Spurs were hoping when they gave him his contract. His numbers are nice but more importantly his defense is vastly improved and he's not making dumb plays constantly like usual.

Not sure what he ate in his latest trip to the doghouse but it must have been some good ish.

[ducks]

Second straight damn good game.

This is what the Spurs were hoping when they gave him his contract. His numbers are nice but more importantly his defense is vastly improved and he's not making dumb plays constantly like usual.

Not sure what he ate in his latest trip to the doghouse but it must have been some good ish.

he wants to go down fighting

he does not want to lose his playing time to a rookie

[timvp]

he wants to go down fighting

he does not want to lose his playing time to a rookie

Whatever the reasoning, let's just hope he keeps playing like this. This version of Bonner makes the Spurs much tougher to defend because he's a legitimate triple threat when he catches the ball right now.

[z0sa]

Second straight damn good game.

This is what the Spurs were hoping when they gave him his contract. His numbers are nice but more importantly his defense is vastly improved and he's not making dumb plays constantly like usual.

Not sure what he ate in his latest trip to the doghouse but it must have been some good ish.

:tu I think Pop's frustration with him on the defensive end is finally near an end - which can only mean good things for the Spurs. They've been desperately needing another big man to step up and Bonner did so in a big way, especially the rebounding department.

[Obstructed_View]

A lot of people on this site would love nothing more than to eat crow if it means Bonner's playing well and contributing to wins. Bonner's got to keep it up, though.

[Obstructed_View]

:tu I think Pop's frustration with him on the defensive end is finally near an end - which can only mean good things for the Spurs. They've been desperately needing another big man to step up and Bonner did so in a big way, especially the rebounding department.

It's also surprising how much patience pop has with guys that are scoring. See Finley, Michael and Mason, Roger.

[z0sa]

he wants to go down fighting

he does not want to lose his playing time to a rookie

I wonder if Timvp has some reason why Tolliver pulled another Mbah a Moute ... while he was switched off on Beno :lol

Still believe it was only the scouting report behind Tolliver not getting out on perimeter guys oncesoever?

[Avitus1]

Keep it going Red Rocket.

[timvp]

I wonder if Timvp has some reason why Tolliver pulled another Mbah a Moute ... while he was switched off on Beno :lol

Still believe it was only the scouting report behind Tolliver not getting out on perimeter guys oncesoever?That was a double-team on the block. Bad play but he obviously expected help.

You do know it is possible to root for a player without tearing down another play on his same team, right? You tearing down Tolliver to prop Bonner is the poor man's version of the CoM's who tears down Parker to prop Ginobili.

:td

[Joe Schmoogins]

I didn't get to see the game tonight, but the stat line looked nice. Bonner will be huge for us if he can continue hitting his threes at a solid rate... I see no reason why he can't keep it up as long as he keeps his confidence up.

[DPG21920]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108386&highlight=positive+energy

[z0sa]

That was a double-team on the block. Bad play but he obviously expected help.

You do know it is possible to root for a player without tearing down another play on his same team, right? You tearing down Tolliver to prop Bonner is the poor man's version of the CoM's who tears down Parker to prop Ginobili.

First and foremost, I've been very positive about Tolliver; a simple search will find you as much. I even said he looked like he was a better fit than Bonner since Pop was giving him PT.

Second, its apples and oranges to compare my comments on Tolliver to a Manu v. Parker. Parker and Manu play two different positions with two different styles of games. The idiots who compare them (or compare any two players on a championship-winning squad with great chemistry) deserve such words. Which leads to my next point ...

Third, Bonner and Tolliver have similar skillsets and play the same position, while both come off the bench. So in order for Bonner to get big minutes, he must outplay Tolliver, especially on the defensive end, where Pop is going to have a microscope on him. It has nothing to do with breaking a player down - its a competition for minutes. Surely this isn't a new concept to you.


:td

I called out obvious errors on Tolliver's part. How can you justify them? And how do I deserve a thumbs down, when everyone on the board besides me has been calling for Bonner's head?

It was not a personal attack against you Timvp. I just think Tolliver got off too easy when it was a big run he helped ignite on Wednesday night, and could have been a reason the King's fought off our run in the fourth by giving Beno such a wide open look.

[T Park]

Agreed with TIMVP. This was the Matt Bonner I witnessed those years in Toronto.

If he keeps this up, this team gets to championship level after teh other big 2 and Mahinmi get back.

[tomtom]

props for another good game by bonner keep it up red rocket!

[timvp]

First and foremost, I've been very positive about Tolliver; a simple search will find you as much. I even said he looked like he was a better fit than Bonner since Pop was giving him PT.:lol Look at the thread you started after the Rockets game.


And Pop, thanks for pulling your head out of your ass, benching Tolliver for his lackadaisical D in the fourth quarter against the bucks + his shitty play last night, and inserting someone who can actually get the job done night in and night out, should you give him the chance.

That's hilarious. You classify Tolliver barely playing and getting a steal for a dunk as "sh!tty play" and now try to paint yourself as an unbiased observer. You've torn down Tolliver to praise Bonner, if you've realized it or not.

And regarding those two Mbah a Moute plays you continually reference, go back and watch the tape. On the second open jumper, it was actually Kurt Thomas who didn't go out on him. So either both Tolliver and Thomas both made the exact same mistake or the Spurs *gasp* had it in their scouting report to not defend a player who is a 20% outside shooter.


Third, Bonner and Tolliver have similar skillsets and play the same position, while both come off the bench. So in order for Bonner to get big minutes, he must outplay Tolliver, especially on the defensive end, where Pop is going to have a microscope on him. It has nothing to do with breaking a player down - its a competition for minutes. Surely this isn't a new concept to you.Your whole reasoning for tearing down Tolliver is built on a false premise. Tolliver and Bonner aren't competing. The competition is between Oberto, Tolliver, Bonner and Thomas. Just look at tonight's game as an example. Bonner got Thomas' minutes. There's plenty of room for both Bonner and Tolliver to get minutes if both are playing well. It's not an either or situation.

[AC#21_TD ERA]

Originally psoted by AC#21_TD ERA

If Matt Bonner get's out of the stinking dog house and gets consistent minutes then he'll be a success. Obviously if your not getting minutes how are you supposed to peform? Look what Bonner did when he filled in for Duncan.

:hat

[Obstructed_View]

That was a double-team on the block. Bad play but he obviously expected help.

You do know it is possible to root for a player without tearing down another play on his same team, right? You tearing down Tolliver to prop Bonner is the poor man's version of the CoM's who tears down Parker to prop Ginobili.

:td

While I agree that there are a couple of people that are doing exactly what you say they're doing, you do know it's possible to point out when a guy makes a mistake and not be tearing him down, right? Whether you intend to or not, you're making it sound like Tolliver isn't making mistakes.

[timvp]

While I agree that there are a couple of people that are doing exactly what you say they're doing, you do know it's possible to point out when a guy makes a mistake and not be tearing him down, right? Whether you intend to or not, you're making it sound like Tolliver isn't making mistakes.Sure. I criticize players all the time. But if someone is overly hyping one player's mistakes while at the same time giving heavy praise to another player, and it happens continuously, I'd expect there is an agenda.

Regarding Tolliver, he made a number of mistakes tonight. He rotated off of Beno when there wasn't a help defender in sight. And twice he was in the wrong spot offensively, causing a forced turnover on one possession. On the other one, he got bailed out by Hill's jumper.

[z0sa]

:lol Look at the thread you started after the Rockets game.

That's hilarious. You classify Tolliver barely playing and getting a steal for a dunk as "sh!tty play" and now try to paint yourself as an unbiased observer. You've torn down Tolliver to praise Bonner, if you've realized it or not.

The post you speak of: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109818


And Pop, thanks for pulling your head out of your ass, benching Tolliver for his lackadaisical D in the fourth quarter against the bucks + his shitty play last night, and inserting someone who can actually get the job done night in and night out, should you give him the chance.

The main point I was trying to make. I trusted people wouldn't take it so much as a personal attack on Tolliver, as stating Bonner deserves more minutes than any other big at this point - hence the Pop comments.

I ask: Why did Pop bench him and bring in someone with the exact same skillset? And I made that thread the very next game after he fucked up, not before. Did Tolliver deserve to be called out for his play against Houston? Maybe not. But Bonner definitely deserved his props, which is the main reason I made that thread, the other reason being Pop is foolish to not give him minutes.


And regarding those two Mbah a Moute plays you continually reference, go back and watch the tape. On the second open jumper, it was actually Kurt Thomas who didn't go out on him. So either both Tolliver and Thomas both made the exact same mistake or the Spurs *gasp* had it in their scouting report to not defend a player who is a 20% outside shooter.

Who was planning on boxing him out then? It was going to be a long rebound, don't you think? We already have enough trouble boarding without our big guys refusing to box their men out.

I never said it wasn't part of the scouting report Timvp. I put more weight in the fact no one got out on him the second time, after just swishing a jumper from the exact same spot. He is still at fault for not even making an effort this early in the season, with PT as unguaranteed as it is. I admit I thought it was Tolliver both times, but notice Tolliver has received about 6.5 minutes of playing time in both games since the Bucks. I think Pop is agreeing with me here that he's shown lapses.


Your whole reasoning for tearing down Tolliver is built on a false premise. Tolliver and Bonner aren't competing. The competition is between Oberto, Tolliver, Bonner and Thomas. Just look at tonight's game as an example. Bonner got Thomas' minutes. There's plenty of room for both Bonner and Tolliver to get minutes if both are playing well. It's not an either or situation.

For now, you're correct. But I assume one of two things is going to happen:

1) Ian Mahinmi makes a big splash. I am hoping against hope for this to happen.

2) Kurt Thomas returns to form on a nightly basis.

If either one happens, that leaves room for one more big to have substantial minutes. It's possible Pop splits the burn between Tolliver AND Bonner, but I don't see it happening. Both have the same skillset, and Pop is only going to call on one to fulfill it.

If either one of those two DON'T happen, I'm worried, because Tolliver is not the physical presence we need on the interior, and Bonner is just Bonner.

One last thing:


Tolliver and Bonner aren't competing. The competition is between Oberto, Tolliver, Bonner and Thomas.

Bit of an oxymoron, though i understand it. The truth is they are competing, however.

[baseline bum]

I'm afraid if I say anything good about him, he'll go back into the slump he went in when I started giving him props. With that said, Fuck Bonner's Florida Gator ass!

[timvp]

The main point I was trying to make.Not bolding the Tolliver slam doesn't make it any less of a Tolliver slam.


I trusted people wouldn't take it so much as a personal attack on Tolliver, as stating Bonner deserves more minutes than any other big at this point - hence the Pop comments.Exactly what had Bonner done to "deserve" more minutes than "any other big"? Prior to the Rockets game, he had played poorly all season. In preseason, he was nothing special ... especially when he was playing against starters.

Bonner didn't deserve anything. Pop gave him another shot and he's making the most of it.


I ask: Why did Pop bench him and bring in someone with the exact same skillset?After watching Tolliver more, his skillset is actually quite different from Bonner's skillset. Tolliver is more mobile on the perimeter, while Bonner is more physical down low and better equipped to hold his position. Tolliver is better at making the hi-low pass, while Bonner is better at making passes out on the perimeter. Tolliver is best defending lighter bigs who can move their feet, while Bonner is best at defending rugged bigs who try to use brute strength. Tolliver seems like a better offensive rebounder than Bonner, but Bonner is a much better defensive rebounder.

Once you delve into their attributes beyond the fact they are both relatively the same size and both like to shoot threes, they are very different.



Did Tolliver deserve to be called out for his play against Houston? Maybe not.That didn't stop you . . .


But Bonner definitely deserved his props, which is the main reason I made that thread, the other reason being Pop is foolish to not give him minutes.Again, I don't follow this logic. Instead of giving Pop props for giving Bonner yet another chance, you call him foolish for not playing him more previously? Bonner was horrible to start the season. His trip to the doghouse has seemed to have made him focus and play with more smarts and intensity. I fail to see what ills Pop has done to Bonner.


Who was planning on boxing him out then? It was going to be a long rebound, don't you think? We already have enough trouble boarding without our big guys refusing to box their men out.Since when do bigs run out from under the basket to box out a player at the three-point line? :huh


I never said it wasn't part of the scouting report Timvp. I put more weight in the fact no one got out on him the second time, after just swishing a jumper from the exact same spot. He is still at fault for not even making an effort this early in the season, with PT as unguaranteed as it is. I admit I thought it was Tolliver both times, but notice Tolliver has received about 6.5 minutes of playing time in both games since the Bucks. I think Pop is agreeing with me here that he's shown lapses.Eh, I think that's simplifying it. Tolliver was kept in after "failing to defend" the 20% shooter (so was Thomas, for that matter). He came into the game prior to Bonner against the Rockets. To Bonner's credit, he has played very well since being given another shot. I think it's more Bonner playing well than anything Tolliver has done horribly. Plus, the personnel has something to do with it as well. In the last two games, the Spurs have gone against two huge frontcourts. Against all that size, Bonner is more valuable because he's stronger and doesn't get pushed around. Tolliver is more useful against small teams such as Miami, New York and Milwaukee.



For now, you're correct. But I assume one of two things is going to happen:

1) Ian Mahinmi makes a big splash. I am hoping against hope for this to happen.

2) Kurt Thomas returns to form on a nightly basis.

If either one happens, that leaves room for one more big to have substantial minutes. It's possible Pop splits the burn between Tolliver AND Bonner, but I don't see it happening. Both have the same skillset, and Pop is only going to call on one to fulfill it.

If either one of those two DON'T happen, I'm worried, because Tolliver is not the physical presence we need on the interior, and Bonner is just Bonner.

I agree that the situation will change if Mahinmi is able to carve out a niche and if Thomas (or Oberto) start playing better. Next to Duncan, there are about 60 minutes up for grabs.

I think Tolliver is the longest shot to win consistent playing time. Bonner has the inside track on him due to his experience alone. For the sake of the Spurs, hopefully Mahinmi wins minutes because he could provide the aspects the Spurs lack (athleticism, shot blocking, height).

We'll see, though. I think Pop will be fair and give all five of the complementary bigs enough minutes to let the cream rise to the top. Right now, Bonner is making a good case for himself. Tolliver has shown some interesting talents. KT and Oberto have been mediocre but they should hopefully get better as the season progresses.

[Obstructed_View]

:And regarding those two Mbah a Moute plays you continually reference, go back and watch the tape. On the second open jumper, it was actually Kurt Thomas who didn't go out on him. So either both Tolliver and Thomas both made the exact same mistake or the Spurs *gasp* had it in their scouting report to not defend a player who is a 20% outside shooter.

I was just messing with you about the scouting thing because, well, it's fun, but I have to point out that it wasn't KT who was supposed to pick up Moute. I've watched that game enough times that I pretty much have it down by heart.

Bogut went right to the front of the rim when Tolliver showed on the pick and roll, and Thomas picked him up. Tolliver should have rotated to Moute and didn't, quickly realizing he was in the wrong spot and running toward the open shooter. He did a good job on the PnR but just simply picked the wrong guy to run to. On the first jumper he got caught cutting across to stop the dribbler and just ended up on the opposite side of the court from his man. Even though they both resulted in wide open shots, they were completely different mistakes.

The Spurs run that same defense several times a game on pick and roll, and the design is for the second big to pick up the guy going to the rim if the first big shows. The Bucks ran that several times in the first half with Duncan showing and both Tolliver and Oberto picking up Bogut. The Spurs' spacing was really good in the first half where nobody was going to get an open shot even if the rotating guy was late because there'd have been someone else to pick it up. I wouldn't say it was game planning that left the guy that wide open, but after looking at the terrible team defense the Spurs were playing at that point, I wouldn't just put it all on Tolliver by any stretch.

A note on why Tolliver was covering Bogut on that second Moute jumper: KT's PnR defense was embarassingly bad. He went outside Bogut's pick opposite the point guard allowing the guy a lane right to the basket not once, but twice. He also just did a vomitously bad job of blocking out. After watching that fourth quarter a couple of times, I'd rather have had two Anthony Tollivers out there instead of one and Kurt Thomas. There were individual mistakes aplenty in the last 13 minutes of that game, and Toll made up for most of his with hustle.

For the record, I thought that the post by Z0sa talking up Bonner ciriticized Tolliver just as unfairly as a lot of the guys that have been crapping on Bonner. Doing one or the other doesn't make it right. Bonner has put up some stinkers so far this year, so he deserves as much criticism for those as he deserves praise for the last two games. His praise doesn't have to come at the cost of one of his teammates.

[z0sa]

Not bolding the Tolliver slam doesn't make it any less of a Tolliver slam.

I began, and ended the sentence, with Pop bashing. The Tolliver "slam" was in the middle of what most people probably caught as almost primarily a Pop slam. Too bad you consider a "slam" to be calling out one's mistakes, mistakes even you admitted were made.

EDIT: if you really think my thread was made to bash Tolliver, take a look at the "Beno balls on Hill" thread.


Exactly what had Bonner done to "deserve" more minutes than "any other big"? Prior to the Rockets game, he had played poorly all season. In preseason, he was nothing special ... especially when he was playing against starters.

He had a more than decent first half against Phoenix, including guarding Amare better than any Spur could or has. His defense against Dirk was great, just not enough - NO spur would have been enough, except maybe Bowen. His rotations have been chippy, but if you want the real answer to why he deserves more minutes, just take a look at the last two games.



Bonner didn't deserve anything. Pop gave him another shot and he's making the most of it.

Bonner shows nothing but hustle out there, and with PT it was clear to me he would shore up his defensive rotations. He showed far more potential as a contributor than Tolliver or Thomas, and has instead been benched repeatedly over and over. He DESERVED a fair shot instead of an expectation of failure which many, including yourself, had.


Once you delve into their attributes beyond the fact they are both relatively the same size and both like to shoot threes, they are very different.

Their primary weapon for the spurs is their three pointer and their size at 6'10 to defend bigs and rebound. You bloat their differences to make a point.




That didn't stop you . . .

Why do you like this guy so much anyway?


Again, I don't follow this logic. Instead of giving Pop props for giving Bonner yet another chance, you call him foolish for not playing him more previously? Bonner was horrible to start the season. His trip to the doghouse has seemed to have made him focus and play with more smarts and intensity. I fail to see what ills Pop has done to Bonner.

:huh How can you say this? Bonner could have been contributing last season had Pop let him work out the kinks with consistent PT. Its obvious now, especially if Bonner keeps up the intensity. He's spent months in the doghouse. Really, honestly, this argument you're making for Pop holds no water since Bonner has proven him wrong about his iq. Unless he takes a step backwards which would require him to get stupid or lazy (which Bonner has never been lazy, and even if you think hes stupid, he learned the defensive rotations - lets hope he doesn't suffer from amnesia), its safe to say Pop was very wrong in sitting him so long.


Since when do bigs run out from under the basket to box out a player at the three-point line? :huh

The high school three point line you mean? Call me crazy to ask our bigs to be near the free throw line when their man shoots a jumper from outside it. :rolleyes


Eh, I think that's simplifying it. Tolliver was kept in after "failing to defend" the 20% shooter (so was Thomas, for that matter). He came into the game prior to Bonner against the Rockets.

It was already fourth quarter. Pop was not going to bring Matt Bonner in with zero PT in the game. I would have thought him foolish for it, and you know I love Bonner.




To Bonner's credit, he has played very well since being given another shot. I think it's more Bonner playing well than anything Tolliver has done horribly. Plus, the personnel has something to do with it as well. In the last two games, the Spurs have gone against two huge frontcourts. Against all that size, Bonner is more valuable because he's stronger and doesn't get pushed around. Tolliver is more useful against small teams such as Miami, New York and Milwaukee.

Which is my very point. Bonner has the skills we need, the experience in the system to excel, and no lack of heart or hustle. Tolliver should not be playing while Bonner gets no PT.






I agree that the situation will change if Mahinmi is able to carve out a niche and if Thomas (or Oberto) start playing better. Next to Duncan, there are about 60 minutes up for grabs.

I think Tolliver is the longest shot to win consistent playing time. Bonner has the inside track on him due to his experience alone. For the sake of the Spurs, hopefully Mahinmi wins minutes because he could provide the aspects the Spurs lack (athleticism, shot blocking, height).

We'll see, though. I think Pop will be fair and give all five of the complementary bigs enough minutes to let the cream rise to the top. Right now, Bonner is making a good case for himself. Tolliver has shown some interesting talents. KT and Oberto have been mediocre but they should hopefully get better as the season progresses.

[Borosai]

Bonner's gonna destroy KG this year.

[z0sa]

Bump. Out of the last three games Bonner's worst, but defensively he made essentially no mistakes, including a nice block in transition D. If he keeps up the defense, he won't be seeing Pop's doghouse any time soon.

17:25 mins
3-7 FG/A (1-3 3PT)
4 Rebounds
1 AST
1 BLK
2 TO

Go spurs Go!

[Obstructed_View]

First two possessions I saw when Bonner came in, two different guys scored on him. Again, he didn't play bad defense on either play, but I had to laugh.

[T Park]

I thought Bonner was solid tonight.

Shot wasn't there, but the defensive effort was good, and the transistion block was nice.

I really love how hes playing right now.


Keep shooting Matty :tu

[timvp]

Bonner was again pretty good. Although Duncan looked like he wanted to murder him when Bonner missed him wide open after sealing off his man. :lol

[z0sa]

First two possessions I saw when Bonner came in, two different guys scored on him. Again, he didn't play bad defense on either play, but I had to laugh.

I honestly missed his first minute or two of action fucking with this laptop ... :bang

They weren't mistakes at least - I can handle him getting scored over, just not lapses that will cause his PT to decrease.


Bonner was again pretty good. Although Duncan looked like he wanted to murder him when Bonner missed him wide open after sealing off his man.

I'm beginning to think you're right about that hi-low pass - but I've seen him make successfully before. I'm more glad Baron didn't steal it from him though :lol

[T Park]

Bonner was again pretty good. Although Duncan looked like he wanted to murder him when Bonner missed him wide open after sealing off his man. :lol

Or that running left handed hook he threw up when Duncan got doubled.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Regardless of how much better Bonner gets in terms of shooting rhythm and defensive position, he still has absolutely no feel for the game in terms of offensive movement and is therefore always going to be a liability. Mookie two thousand fucking one is a better passer than Bonner.

[z0sa]

Regardless of how much better Bonner gets in terms of shooting rhythm and defensive position, he still has absolutely no feel for the game in terms of offensive movement and is therefore always going to be a liability. Mookie two thousand fucking one is a better passer than Bonner.

You've missed the last couple games before the Clips where, in both, he made excellent cuts down the lane for layups, or that cut to the 3pt line for a three against HOU.

[SequSpur]

You've missed the last couple games before the Clips where, in both, he made excellent cuts down the lane for layups, or that cut to the 3pt line for a three against HOU.

i need some phenergan.

[T Park]

You've missed the last couple games before the Clips where, in both, he made excellent cuts down the lane for layups, or that cut to the 3pt line for a three against HOU.

Hes still stuck back in summer 2007

ignore him.

[Joe Schmoogins]

the RED ROCKET is on FIYAH!

[m33p0]

It's official!

We love us some ROCKET!





















































.... until the next time he sucks that is.

[m33p0]

Regardless of how much better Bonner gets in terms of shooting rhythm and defensive position, he still has absolutely no feel for the game in terms of offensive movement and is therefore always going to be a liability. Mookie two thousand fucking one is a better passer than Bonner.

tell george karl that.

[intlspurshk]

AS good as Bonner right now, he and Duncan can't match KG and P, Gasol and Odom, .. may be just enough to beat Yao and Scola

[Joe Schmoogins]

AS good as Bonner right now, he and Duncan can't match KG and P, Gasol and Odom, .. may be just enough to beat Yao and Scola

interesting take...

he sure seemed good enough this afternoon!




Congrats to Bonner on another excellent game. I'm sure it was extra sweet for him in front of the home town crowd.

[SpursFan0728]

props to bonner

[Texas_Ranger]

:clap:clap Matthew

[Penya]

Bonner's gonna destroy KG this year.

Hell, yeah :lol

[WalterBenitez]

Great game!, :clap for the record I love that assist over the basket :D

[Fernando TD21]

Red Rocket! :toast

[superbigtime]

Matt bonner amazed me today, and not just with his shooting. Great hustle and defense. Tough on boards. He stole the ball from Garnett. No errors. Just a great game...he was like Ron Artest out there! Except he shot well!