Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Suns Oct. 29

[timvp]

(It’s great to be back in the saddle again for another season as we get to watch the San Antonio Spurs in their journey for a fifth NBA championship. Here’s to a season of good health, many wins and a fun and memorable time for players, coaches and fans alike :toast)

In the 2008-09 season opening game, the San Antonio Spurs and the Phoenix Suns played another close contest that came down to the wire. It wasn’t your typical Spurs and Suns affair, as the Spurs were adjusting to life without Manu Ginobili and the Suns were adjusting to life without Mike D’Antoni.

When the smoke cleared, the Suns were able to escape San Antonio with a 103-98 victory. The key stretch came with about three minutes to go in the fourth quarter. With the game tied at 94, Amare Stoudemire produced a three-point play and then followed it up with a layup. The Spurs fought back from that 5-0 run but in the final forty seconds both Tony Parker and Tim Duncan missed three-pointers that would have tied the game.

Although many NBA scribes and talking heads have already written the obituary for these Suns, I thought Phoenix looked good. Steve Nash and Shaquille O’Neal didn’t appear to have lost a step over the summer. Stoudemire, even though he never really seemed to get in a rhythm, was productive. Grant Hill was obviously much healthier than he was last year in the postseason. Leandro Barbosa even had a rare good game against the Spurs. Rookies Robin Lopez and Goran Dragic should help the Suns on the defensive end of the court and in terms of energy and hustle.

The Spurs, who lost for the first time on opening night in the Tim Duncan Era, were a mixed bag of goodness and ugliness. The most glaring aspect that must be worked on was transition defense. Under Pop’s coaching guidance, the Spurs always excel in that area – but that wasn’t the case tonight. The Suns got way too many easy buckets on the break. Rebounding, overall hustle and finding scoring outside of Tim Duncan and Tony Parker were also issues that need improvement.

Overall, however, the Spurs didn’t play too poorly. It’s going to be difficult to win games against good teams without Ginobili but the Spurs mostly lost due to correctable errors. Hopefully the Spurs can address their problem areas, regroup quickly and get on the winning track as they come out of the gates for the 2008-09 campaign.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
36 minutes, 32 points, six rebounds, three assists
13-for-21 from the field, 6-for-10 at the line

Tim Duncan played well in the preseason and that carried over into the first game of the regular season. He looked very smooth offensively as he knocked in a variety of shots from the perimeter. His post game also looked solid and he made very good decisions for much of the night. The only problem for Duncan offensively was that his teammates weren’t always finding him when he was open. With as well as Duncan was rolling, the Spurs should have given him the ball much more often. Defensively, Duncan wasn’t quite as sharp but he held his own. A few more rebounds would have helped but he usually had his hands full guarding either O’Neal or Stoudemire. The aspect I liked most from Duncan was his fire. He showed postseason level determination and really left everything he had out on the court. It was a very good showing for Duncan to begin a new campaign.
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Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
36 minutes, 32 points, five rebounds, five assists
13-for-24 from the field, 6-for-8 at the line

In the first quarter, Tony Parker missed all five of his shots. He finished the first half only 4-for-12 from the floor. In the second half Parker came alive, mostly because he started connecting on all the short chippies he missed in the first half. Late in the game, Parker carried the Spurs offensively, scoring 13 of the final 15 points. It was definitely an up-and-down game for Parker but he redeemed any first half follies with his play over the final two quarters. His playmaking was decent enough and his defense was actually quite good in stretches. He was part of the problem in regards to the transition defense but he was one of the few Spurs hustling on that end. With Ginobili sidelined, Parker is going to have to be more productive than usual. This was a good start.
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Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
21 minutes, two rebounds, one steal
0-for-1 from the field

Bruce Bowen struggled throughout the first game of the season. Defensively, he was slow to figure out what the Suns were trying to do under the new coaching staff. He oftentimes found himself out of place, which is obviously rare for Bowen on the defensive end. He wasn’t helping offensively either so Pop limited his minutes. It’s way too early to say Bowen won’t be able to provide his usual production this season. Phoenix doesn’t have a swingman who warrants Bowen’s attention, so he was mostly put on Nash. We’ll get a much better idea of where Bowen stands in the next few games.
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Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
31 minutes, eight points, three assists
4-for-7 from the field, 0-for-2 on three-pointers

Over the summer, Michael Finley did a lot of work to improve his conditioning. Even though he’s in much better shape this year, he’s still basically the same player we saw last year. If you draw up a play for him, he’ll hit the shot at a high percentage. He’ll mix in a couple stand-still jumpers. However, other than that, Finley doesn’t offer much. Defensively, at his very best he’s still below average. Against the Suns, Finley was also no help on the boards and his lack of hustle was apparent on multiple occasions. It’d be nice if he could step up with Ginobili is out but his game is so limited at this point in his career that there is only so much you can expect out of him.
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Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
27 minutes, two points, seven rebounds
1-for-5 from the field

Usually a steady player, Kurt Thomas had a poor outing tonight. He missed most a number of open jumpers and defensively he was nothing special. In fact, Stoudemire’s late three-point play was with Thomas defending. The 36-year-old Thomas is a player to watch to see if he loses a step. This wasn’t a good opening performance but it didn’t look like it was due to losing a step – or at least that should be the hope.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
30 minutes, 12 points, four rebounds, three assists, two blocks
4-for-7 from the field, 3-for-4 on three-pointers

Personally, the biggest bright spot for the Spurs was the play of Roger Mason, Jr. After an uneven preseason, Mason showed why the coaching staff has been gushing over him since he signed as a free agent. Outside of Duncan and Parker, Mason was the only Spur to hit double-figures in scoring. Offensively, he showed a wide repertoire. He hit a mid-range jumper off the dribble and also had a stop and pop three-pointer on a fast break. I was also impressed with his patience and his ballhandling on the offensive end. Defensively, he also showed a lot of promise. He still is a work in progress, especially on transition defense, but he’s an active defender. Whether he was on Barbosa on the wing or Matt Barnes in the low block, Mason competed and gave the appearance that he could grow into being a good defender in the Spurs system. On the whole, I was very impressed with what I saw from Mason in his San Antonio debut.
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Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
30 minutes, eight points, seven rebounds
3-for-9 from the field, 2-for-5 on three-pointers

It was a tale of two halves for Matt Bonner. In the first half, Bonner played quite well. He was hitting shots, rebounding the ball and being aggressive on defense. In the second half, it was a totally different story. Bonner became spastic offensively as he grew unsure of himself and he compounded the issue by not crashing the boards as much. The one aspect of his game I was impressed with for the most part was his individual post defense. He fought for position early and didn’t bail out the opposing player by fouling like he typical has done in the past. His defensive rotations, on the other hand, need a whole lot of work. If Bonner can bottle what he did in the first half, that would be enough for him to be a rotation player for the duration of the season. But the second half was an example of why Pop always seems to lose confidence in him.
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Ime Udoka
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3501.jpg
16 minutes, two points, five rebounds
1-for-4 from the field, 0-for-2 on three-pointers

Ime Udoka gave good effort in his 16 minutes of action. Like Bowen, Pop likely opted to go with Finley and Mason due to Udoka’s shortcomings on offense. But while he was out there, Udoka did a very nice job on the boards and was arguably the team’s most physical presence. He ended up leading the team in plus/minus with a +13. With Fabricio Oberto out with a reoccurrence of his heart condition, Ian Mahinmi out with an ankle injury and Anthony Tolliver at home dealing with the death of his mother, Udoka is the emergency bigman on the roster – even though he’s only 6-foot-5.
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Jacque Vaughn
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3195.jpg
12 minutes, two points, three assists
1-for-2 from the field

Jacque Vaughn got the call as the backup point guard behind Parker. George Hill will likely be given a chance soon enough to supplant Vaughn, but Vaughn held on for at least another game. And actually, Vaughn wasn’t half bad. He gave good effort defensively and even mixed in an impressive drive to the basket. At this stage of his career, Vaughn is more suited to be a third string point guard but showed tonight that it’s not the end of the world if he’s forced into backup duty.
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Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Pop had a lot of interesting maneuvers in the opening game of the season. He broke out Hack-a-Shaq in the first half, with marginal success. He opted against using Hill but he did give Mason a larger than expected amount of minutes. Seeing Mason out there to close the game was surprising considering that Pop usually likes to go to his known quantities to close out games. Either Pop already has a high level of confidence in Mason or he was doing some early season experimenting.
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Offense
The Spurs offense was good but not as good as the 98 points would indicate. Duncan bailed the Spurs out with a number of difficult perimeter jumpers. The Spurs were also way too reliant on Duncan and Parker for their scoring, especially in the second half and down the stretch. The ball movement was good and San Antonio only had seven turnovers, so it has to be considered a better than average offensive start to the season.

Defense
Phoenix scored 84 points over the final three quarters of the game, which is obviously way too much as far as the Spurs’ defense is concerned. I can’t reinforce enough how bad the transition defense was tonight and I’m sure that Pop will have the tape ready tomorrow to show the team exactly that point. The pick-and-roll defense also needs work but I thought the one-on-one defense was good for the most part.

Drive to Five
The Portland Trail Blazers will host the Spurs for a Halloween game on Friday. Greg Oden will miss the contest but the Blazers have more than enough talent to make it a difficult contest for San Antonio. It’s going to be a tough game to win but if the Spurs can improve their transition defense, keep the crowd out of the game and get production from their role players, win number one should be within reach.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Thanks LJ, great recap. :toast

C'mon Roger Mason - if he can give that sort of effort for the rest of the year we have a shot.

[Obstructed_View]

The one thing the Spurs didn't suffer from tonight was lack of effort. Everyone showed up to play. It seems easier to fix mistakes so long as everyone is working hard on both ends. I expect the errors to diminish as the guys become more accustomed to each other, and that's after a game where they only turned the ball over seven times.

[KidCongo]

I don't even support the Spurs but always read this. Props.

[Manufan909]

Hope Bonner can take what he did in the first half, and do that the whole game against Portland. Also, I'd love for TD and TP to force a blowout by the second half. That seems the only way to get Farmer and Hill serious minutes. With Fin and JV playing so much yeterday, I know there are enough minutes to spread around. Hill might still be hurt/sick, but I know Farmer is raring to go.

[DPG21920]

Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
30 minutes, eight points, seven rebounds
3-for-9 from the field, 2-for-5 on three-pointers

It was a tale of two halves for Matt Bonner. In the first half, Bonner played quite well. He was hitting shots, rebounding the ball and being aggressive on defense. In the second half, it was a totally different story. Bonner became spastic offensively as he grew unsure of himself and he compounded the issue by not crashing the boards as much. The one aspect of his game I was impressed with for the most part was his individual post defense. He fought for position early and didn’t bail out the opposing player by fouling like he typical has done in the past. His defensive rotations, on the other hand, need a whole lot of work. If Bonner can bottle what he did in the first half, that would be enough for him to be a rotation player for the duration of the season. But the second half was an example of why Pop always seems to lose confidence in him.
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I did not get to watch the live game because I was at the Kings of Leon concert. I am watching the replay and these are my observations for the first half.

People have been way overreacting. The first half was solid overall. I like how they are going to Tim and spacing the floor. Tim is being aggressive and people are in the right spots. People are getting good looks and they just have to knock them down, which Mason did. Matt Bonner had a very good first half, but judging by everyone's comments his second half did not match his first. But if Bonner can string two halves together like the first, the Spurs will really benefit. Parker looked good and as I have said before, TP and Tim are going to have to average 48-50 points in order for the Spurs to win.

As always, the defense looked pretty good. The Suns had some nice shooting and Shaq made free throws at the end of the second quarter. I think there were nice defensive plays all around, but the Suns just hit some shots. Once again, judging by the comments it seems as if the Spurs defense worsens in the second half. I will see. It is going to come down to the Spurs staying disciplined and confident. The offense looks good running through TP and Tim, it will just be up to the rest of the guys to hit their open looks.



Looks like we saw some of the same stuff

[polandprzem]

Hey LJ you need to put bearded Pop pic next time :)

And damn I hate "The Gibobili excuse" eklement. Well I hate all the excuses but excuse like this can weaken the team.
Well we were playing without Manu, we will be fine when he come back
And if they will lose with Gino out there, then the mentality (of a fighters) can go down.

btw. Are they so weak without Manu? Because I can't imagine jordan Bulls being so much worse of a team without Scottie.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i really like a mason/ginoboli/bowen back court off the bench....

still need a big who can rebound and play defense....

[benefactor]

Hey LJ you need to put bearded Pop pic next time :)

And damn I hate "The Gibobili excuse" eklement. Well I hate all the excuses but excuse like this can weaken the team.
Well we were playing without Manu, we will be fine when he come back
And if they will lose with Gino out there, then the mentality (of a fighters) can go down.

btw. Are they so weak without Manu? Because I can't imagine jordan Bulls being so much worse of a team without Scottie.
If you sincerely believe this, you should probably stop watching basketball all together...or at least stop talking about it.

[TJastal]

Can I add my 2 cents on the officiating? ----It was very 1 sided in favor of Phoenix. I hate to bemoan officitiating, but when its so 1 sided in favor of 1 team, it simply must be pointed out, there's really no excuse for it.

And the main culprit was Violet Palmer. Numerous times mostly in the first half, she bailed out the suns' big men with cheap fouls (esp ticky tack fouls on Bonner). And I mean cheap, the kind of foul where Bonner had his arms extended straight not trying to block a shot, but might have made slight body contact, which is normally never called, esp when the offensive player is initiating the contact. I remember at least 3 possessions where solid defense was played, Suns missed the shot, and ol' Violet bailed them out with free throws. So 5-6 freebies there. Oh, and on the other end of the floor, Duncan gets a knocked to the floor on his driving layup by Shaq. I watched the replay in slo-mo on my direct-tv. Shaq just took the flat of his hand and pushed him in the chest. It really can't get any more obvious. And all 3 officials fail to make the foul call, and of course its a turnover, cuz Duncan was forced to heave up a shot while crashing to the floor. Irony on that one being they call Bonner immediately after that for the tick-tack foul. That pissed me off.

And Bennet Salvatore (I think? the silver haired one) picked up in the 4th quarter where Violet Palmer left off in the first half. I remember this guy from last year, he is generally very unfair on his fouls in regards to the spurs. Duncan had a great block on Stoudemire driving baseline, just smothered it completely. Salvatore somehow thought this was a foul. So Stoudemire got 2 more cheap ones on that play. He also called a traveling on Roger Mason, which (at least on my replay) showed he had established his pivot as his left, and drove leading with his right foot which is perfectly legal. Salvatore was right there 10 feet away making this call too, with no obstruction. That was a critical play as the spurs were building some momentum in the 4th quarter, that traveling snuffed out that momentum.

There was other "questionable" if not outright terrible calls. Kurt Thomas getting called for that foul on Stoudemire going baseline, very questionable.

There was 1 lone play that I thought was a bad call against the suns, and that was in the 4th quarter, when Parker drove to the basket, and used his forearm to push off Grant Hill before making a layup, and they called Hill for a foul. But that was just ONE bad call that went against the Suns the whole game, in contrast to a dozen or so the other way. And yet the spurs still managed to play well enough to almost pull it out at the end, and that was without 1 of their top players (Ginobili)

I think what it shows (other than Stoudemire is making late night visits to Violet Palmer) is that the spurs are far from finished, but my fear is the officials are going to beat them down so hard this year, they may barely miss the playoffs in a very stacked western conference. Hope that's not the case and the spurs can overcome it all, because if they make it into the playoffs and are healthy, they will be honed and tough to take out.

[Darkwaters]

I was appalled at the majority of the calls that Amare got. He got so many preferential calls all night that we were calling it "Amare Welfare Night". The guy couldn't buy a FG until late in the 3rd, but he still had plenty of points off of ticky tack fouls.

[venitian navigator]

i really like a mason/ginoboli/bowen back court off the bench....

still need a big who can rebound and play defense....

...and run!
It could be Mahinmi, but this summer I would have signed/traded for De Sagana Diop with the nets...who lost him for nothing!
Diop, differently from Thomas, is still young enough to run on defense, intimidate shots and block them, rebound.
Everybody say he's a liability on offense, but I think that, for the offense, consiering he would be paliyng with tim, his offensive rebounding would have been enough to let him play more than our "centers".
Oh, and he also run enough to be good also for our transition defense.

Any chance to deal for him ? in Dallas he's still the back-up center...with limited minutes (Dampier, Bass and Nowitzki being their primary bigs).

[Darkwaters]

How long until Mason is the starting SG?

[urunobili]

Pop should have gone to Farmer and play more small ball vs. playing Bonner that much on the second half.

[bigfundamental21]

Thanks for the thoughts, timvp. It's always great to read your game thoughts after every game.

I agree that our defense was the reason we lost this game. Especially our fourth quarter defense in the paint. It seemed like every possession, the Suns were getting quality shots and even uncontested shots at the rim during the final minutes of the game.

Duncan and Parker were fantastic, but they got almost zero help offensively from the rest of the team. I was impressed with Mason's debut as well and I hope to see him get even more minutes as the season goes on.

Although this was our first season opening loss in the Duncan era, I was not disappointed with the overall effort. It was a close game throughout and it just came down to execution at the end. Hopefully, the Spurs will bounce back with a victory on Friday. It's going to be a tough road until Manu comes back, but I still feel that we will be okay.

[TJastal]

Pop should have gone to Farmer and play more small ball vs. playing Bonner that much on the second half.

+1

Pop could bump up Udoka's minutes too if needed, as I think Udoka's game is more well rounded, and he just plays smarter out there. Bonner just seems to make too many miscues, and his offensive repertoire is too limited for him to be an effective NBA player IMO. I also recall at least 2 times he got outrebounded by Barnes, who is playing small forward. Having Bonner out getting alot of minutes is just a liability any way you slice it. Hopefully, once Oberto is back, the spurs will at least have a guy out there that can outrebound most small forwards.

[1Parker1]

I think you're being a little too generous with Bonner. He's just not the type of player who you ever want to be out there when the game is within 7-8 points and still reachable. He showed that tonight in the second half. :pctoss

[pauls931]

Officiating? I thought it was one sided to the Spurs? Guess it depends on who you're going for. BTW, you guys scared the hell out of Dragic, hope he's not traumatized.

[sandman]

OK, put any spin on it that is needed, but Bonner in the second half was straight up awful on both ends of the floor. But Pop kept putting him in.

He has GOT to have photos of Pop doing something with a wine bottle when they were over in Europe.

[I Love Me Some Me]

I don't know if this is going to be a permanent thing, but it looks like the Spurs went away from the alleged "motion" offense for the most part, and went back to the old reliable "4-down", and had relative success. The offense ran mostly through Duncan, and that is never a bad thing.

[VaSpursFan]

bonner does not show that he has the propensity to string 2 solid halves of basketball together. further, he has the b-ball IQ of a brick. one play in particular sticks out in my mind that demonstrates this. timmy is WIDE open under the basket and motioning for the ball...bonner catches it and jacks up a 3. timmy showed the most frustration i have even seen for a teamate. he was livid. why chuck a 3 for the sure 2? that's bonner in a nutshell.

[sandman]

bonner does not show that he has the propensity to string 2 solid halves of basketball together. further, he has the b-ball IQ of a brick. one play in particular sticks out in my mind that demonstrates this. timmy is WIDE open under the basket and motioning for the ball...bonner catches it and jacks up a 3. timmy showed the most frustration i have even seen for a teamate. he was livid. why chuck a 3 for the sure 2? that's bonner in a nutshell.

When you do something stupid enough for Timmy to show frustration about in on the court, then you did something really stupid.

I know that Bonner is trying to play the Horry role, but Robert got a pass on jacking up a three early in the shot clock because, well, he was sort of known for being able to make them.

[Chomag]

I have said this in another thread but..
We didn't lose because of Bonner, or even that Manu is out.
We also didn't lose because of the officiating tonight.
We lost because the suns exploited our greatest weakness which is our defensive presence in the paint. We really need to get some intimidation in there or else I see every team using this area to beat us.
Timmy just cant hold the paint all by himself...

[TJastal]

Officiating? I thought it was one sided to the Spurs? Guess it depends on who you're going for. BTW, you guys scared the hell out of Dragic, hope he's not traumatized.

If you have to frame your comment as a question, then maybe your just not 100% sure... maybe... possibly?... perhaps?...

Okay, if you think the big bad official crew of Violet and Bennett was so bad and awful to your poor lil' suns, name me 2 other bad calls on the suns (or no calls against the spurs) .. besides the one I mentioned on Parker.

If you can actually come up with two things, I will have to go by memory because I already deleted the game off my direct tv disk, but I am going to start saving them to dvd so I can review later because I'm 100% sure anything you say is going to be 100% bullshit

[lefty]

Timvp should be working for ESPN, instead of all those " experts "

:toast

[TJastal]

I have said this in another thread but..
We didn't lose because of Bonner, or even that Manu is out.
We also didn't lose because of the officiating tonight.
We lost because the suns exploited our greatest weakness which is our defensive presence in the paint. We really need to get some intimidation in there or else I see every team using this area to beat us.
Timmy just cant hold the paint all by himself...

Your point is valid about the lack of interior defense.. but the other points are just as valid, you can't just dismiss them.

Sorry, but:

Spurs DID lose because Bonner is inconsistent, and lacks nba skills in a lot of areas.

Spurs DID lose because Violet Palmer fantasizes about Amare every night she pulls out the vibrator, and Bennet Salvatore just plain hates the spurs; I'm guessing he probably lost money on a bet he made against the spurs some years ago.

Spurs DID lose because they do not have Manu.

[Bender]

what about the sun's defense...? I thought it was pretty good.

and what you think about Porter, can he take them to the next level, or do you think the suns will still be the same old same old... not quite enough to make it all the way...?
I don't know much about porter as a coach except that he hasn't accomplished much yet.

[xellos88330]

Do you get paid for putting up these threads Timvp??? You are a bad ass recapper.

[xellos88330]

what about the sun's defense...? I thought it was pretty good.

and what you think about Porter, can he take them to the next level, or do you think the suns will still be the same old same old... not quite enough to make it all the way...?
I don't know much about porter as a coach except that he hasn't accomplished much yet.

Hard to really say how the Suns defense is. It looked pretty solid at times.

What I really want to know is how does any team stop the Nash/Amare pick and roll? An athletic big maybe???

[lefty]

what about the sun's defense...? I thought it was pretty good.

and what you think about Porter, can he take them to the next level, or do you think the suns will still be the same old same old... not quite enough to make it all the way...?
I don't know much about porter as a coach except that he hasn't accomplished much yet.

Yeah, but Manu didn't play, so we have yet to see how they defend us with Manu in.

[SuperDave]

I thought Bonner's basketball IQ was perfectly exemplified by his decision-making in the last possession. With the Spurs down 5 and, what, 4 seconds remaining, Bonner's got the ball open on the perimeter for 3, but a defender is closing. Instead of immediately taking the contested 3, he wastes 2 seconds to dribble in and clang a mid-range jumper. Granted, the game is 99% over there anyway, but the only way you win is if you take, and make, the immediate 3.

Bonner's a smart dude who is "basketball IQ challenged." This is not something that is going to change.

[Mr. Body]

What I really want to know is how does any team stop the Nash/Amare pick and roll? An athletic big maybe???

Tiago Splitter.

[Steve-O-Matic]

First you said that his teammates should have gotten Duncan the ball more often, then you said the team was too reliant on Duncan and Parker for offense. HUH?!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Great analysis as always Timvp! :tu





I thought Bonner and Thomas both looked pretty weak out there, and if there's a glaring weakness in this team it's the big men. I still like Thomas as the primary backup against most teams, but he didn't show a lot last night.

I'll be interested to see if Tolliver and Mahinmi are given a chance to prove themselves once they're available.




I noticed when Parker took his three down the stretch that Mason looked to be open on the wing. I'm all for the stars taking the big shots, but Parker's three was forced a bit and Mason had been hitting all night. Having Parker and Duncan shoot those threes down the stretch may not have been the best plays.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I noticed when Parker took his three down the stretch that Mason looked to be open on the wing. I'm all for the stars taking the big shots, but Parker's three was forced a bit and Mason had been hitting all night. Having Parker and Duncan shoot those threes down the stretch may not have been the best plays.
ITA. In watching the game I didn't see anything that struck me as odd for what I've come to expect from the Spurs early in the season up until the last few minutes where anything resembling execution on either end of the floor went entirely out the window. Parker had a good look, but it was obvious the second he went into his motion that he was out of rhythm. Looked more like a heat check than a guy shooting for the game. As for Tim's, I can only assume 21 was having some flashbacks or something.

[FromWayDowntown]

I tend to agree with most of the comments in this thread, but I'll add a couple of my own.

I think the effort on Opening Night was great and if the Spurs play that hard for the bulk of the season, with or without Manu, they're going to win a lot of games. It's going to be difficult to beat a relatively elite team like Phoenix even on the best of nights; trying to do it with Matt Bonner getting big minutes is not a big help. It's harder still when you're without a guy who is part of the foundation that the team's structure depends upon. More Manu might have meant less Mason, for instance, so I'm not sure that there's a 1-to-1 correlation in thinking that the Spurs definitely win with Manu; but I thought it was apparent in Game 1 just how much Manu does for the Spurs, particularly against the Suns.

I hear complaints about rebounding, but I thought the Spurs did a relatively good job of gang rebounding -- they hung in there against a team with a handful of guys who gobble up rebounds and were neck-and-neck with the Suns all night long in that category. There were, unfortunately, a couple of instances where their lack of size and athleticism showed in individual rebounding match -- and among the 3 worst plays of the game was Bonner's inability to rebound the ball after Barnes missed a 3rd quarter bunny in transition, which was abysmal.

The possession that won the game for the Suns was the Spurs' third-to-last one, I think. After a Phoenix miss, Mason had the ball above the arc on the wing. With a someone closing him out, he put the ball on the floor and kicked out to Parker, who was above the arc, too. Instead of trying to work the ball to Timmy and running some offense, Parker bricked an ill-advised 3 (IMO) and the die was cast. Obviously, Parker had been shooting the ball well in the 2nd half and had carried the offense late, but I think that you have to work the ball to Tim in those situations and let him see what he can create for himself or others. That struck me as a purely mental mistake.

I disagree with whomever is claiming that the officials cost the Spurs the game. There were some missed calls, to be sure, but the Spurs did get the benefit of a few of those missed calls. The Suns were probably able to be a bit more physical with Duncan than, say Bonner was allowed to be physical with Stoudemire. But, several of the ticky-tack calls against Bonner were expressly for having two hands on the offensive player in the post, which has clearly been a foul for several years now. Amare got called for one of those as well, in the first half, so it's not like those calls were one-sided, either.

In the end, the free throw numbers, excepting the Hack-a-Shaq, were even (and that's with the Spurs intentionally fouling late) at 19 and the Spurs had their chances to win that game. Had they, for instance, corralled a loose ball with about 6 minutes to go, the Spurs might have extended a one-point lead and given themselves some breathing room; instead, Finley and Mason (I think) each fail to grab the loose ball, the Suns collect it and get it to Barbosa who drains a jumper to give the lead back to the Suns. In such a close game, plays like that one are killers.

It was a disappointing loss, but one that gives me substantial hope going forward.

[tonylongoriafan]

How long until Mason is the starting SG?

+1

[SenorSpur]

Kudos, as always, for a very-documented recap :tu

Never thought I'd see the day that the Suns transition defense would be equal to or better than the Spurs.

No kidding about Finley. No matter how much weight he's lost or how more well-conditioned he is, it's still that same ol' result. There is very little net benefit. I'm still mystified at Pop's fascination with this guy. I'd would've rather the team went in another direction here.

Keep an eye on Bowen this year for any noticeable decline.

[Solid D]

Nice "Game Thoughts", timvp! Professional grade quality.

I noticed that Bruce Bowen has completely forgotten how to run the break in transition, both offensively and defensively. Ugly.

I also noticed that Bennett Salvatore is in mid-season form and has gained new confidence in his court vision, making several calls much farther away from the other two officials on the floor and also showcasing his eagle-eye, detecting the slightest move of any pivot foot. He's back!

I also learned from a post-game TV interview that San Antonio has had only 3 dominant big-men, starting on Harry Wurzbach and Rittiman road with Shaquille O'Neal. I could have sworn Artis Gilmore was around before Shaq but...maybe not. :smokin

[Bruno]

Pop biggest task during the first couple of months is to settle a rotation.
Right now, there is 13 players who can be part of the future rotation. Spurs are damn late in the process of setting a hierarchy. It's almost impossible to judge how good will be this team in a couple of months when everybody should be healthy and when Pop will have figure who should play or not.

November will be a preseason for Spurs. What sucks is that it counts and Spurs will be behind other teams for the playoff race. Spurs fans will have to be patient.

[SenorSpur]

Last night would've been a perfect opportunity for Tolliver and Ian to get some burn. I can't wait until we get the full compliment of players back so we can actually see what we're working with.

[nashty]

If you have to frame your comment as a question, then maybe your just not 100% sure... maybe... possibly?... perhaps?...

Okay, if you think the big bad official crew of Violet and Bennett was so bad and awful to your poor lil' suns, name me 2 other bad calls on the suns (or no calls against the spurs) .. besides the one I mentioned on Parker.

If you can actually come up with two things, I will have to go by memory because I already deleted the game off my direct tv disk, but I am going to start saving them to dvd so I can review later because I'm 100% sure anything you say is going to be 100% bullshit

I don't think it was bad officiating for any side...but if you want two examples of questionable calls going the spurs way here they are:

1. non call on offensive foul on parker pushing off Nash near the free-throw line.

2. Charge called on Amare while going to the basket on a dunk while Thomas was still not set.


There you go........ it's the first game of the season and you are already making excuses for your team??.... I'd rather read form spurs fans that your team was incomplete and all those things....but officianting??? common.....you sound like what you guys like to call a suns fan.....

[romad_20]

I though Bonner looked pretty lost on defense all night. He was looking around like he didn't even know who to guard. Timmy and Pop got in his ass a couple of times during the game and he responded with more of the same. I don't think he passed the ball well or had very much confidence. I didn't think his first half was that impressive, he just hit a couple of three's but I didn't see the effort in rebounding. I knew it was over once he missed that open 3 after he had hit the others.

Mason played excellent. Aggressive on offense and tried to make his rotations on D. Not afraid to shoot and it looks like he will be able to run and finish with Parker on the break, something no one else can do while Manu is out.

All in all its what I thought we'd look like. I don't think this team has what it takes this year, you never know though. We know what Finely, Bowen and Bonner will give, they're not going to get any better. Udoka still has room for improvement and we haven't seen the new guys that much, but in Pop's system they won't matter that much anyway.

PS

Stop complaining about Refs. We know Palmer sucks, but she wasn’t the reason we lost.

[Solid D]

Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I f***, what I take into my body-as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? -Bill Hicks

Response to sig. Because to others, Bill Hicks is... "another human being on this planet" where potential harm might come. Love for fellow man is important, too and with greater positive results and impact than the importance of self-indulgence.

[romad_20]

Response to sig. Because to others, Bill Hicks is... "another human being on this planet" where potential harm might come. Love for fellow man is important, too and with greater positive results and impact than the importance of self-indulgence.

I will try not to hijack this thread, but I don't really get your point. His point is he has free will to do with himself as he pleases as long as he doesn't hurt anyone else and other people should not be able to tell him what to do with his personal temple. It has nothing to do with self-indulgence.:toast

[Solid D]

I'll PM you when I have a few minutes and try to help you understand the point. Mr. Hicks died at age 32 of liver cancer and he may well have caused some harm to his friends and family, including Jim and Mary Hicks.

[024]

i think defense was the spurs' greatest weakness. barnes kept getting open looks at the three point line and hill hit a few wide open jumpers. i blame most of this on finley because he was the one who was guarding them when they got their open looks. i think the time has come for bowen to stop defending the quick point guards in the NBA. as evident last year against NO, bowen can't keep up with smaller and quicker guards. it would be much more productive to assign him to shut down a wing player and let parker deal with the PG. since popovich insists on starting finley, putting finley on the lesser wing threat seems much better.

another reoccurring issue the spurs must deal with is finding someone who can defend very mobile PF's. west, stoudemire and odom ran wild against the spurs' defenders last postseason and it seems like they will continue to do so again this year unless something happens. stoudemire may not have scored explosively this time but he did make some key plays down the stretch that cost the spurs the game.

[Spurs Brazil]

Great recap timvp

The player I was most disappointed last night was Thomas. He usually plays smart but yesterday he was terrible. A step slow on D and missing some rotations. On offensive he had a bad shot selection.

Too bad Ian got injured again. He’d have a lot of chances in the preseason and could become a rotation player. Now he’s a big question mark. I hope he gets healthy and be able to help especially on interior D.

TD and TP were fantastic

Mason did a very good job and I hope we can see more of the 1st half Bonner, if not he’ll be in trouble.

[Fingaroll44]

Can I add my 2 cents on the officiating? ----It was very 1 sided in favor of Phoenix. I hate to bemoan officitiating, but when its so 1 sided in favor of 1 team, it simply must be pointed out, there's really no excuse for it.

And the main culprit was Violet Palmer. Numerous times mostly in the first half, she bailed out the suns' big men with cheap fouls (esp ticky tack fouls on Bonner). And I mean cheap, the kind of foul where Bonner had his arms extended straight not trying to block a shot, but might have made slight body contact, which is normally never called, esp when the offensive player is initiating the contact. I remember at least 3 possessions where solid defense was played, Suns missed the shot, and ol' Violet bailed them out with free throws. So 5-6 freebies there. Oh, and on the other end of the floor, Duncan gets a knocked to the floor on his driving layup by Shaq. I watched the replay in slo-mo on my direct-tv. Shaq just took the flat of his hand and pushed him in the chest. It really can't get any more obvious. And all 3 officials fail to make the foul call, and of course its a turnover, cuz Duncan was forced to heave up a shot while crashing to the floor. Irony on that one being they call Bonner immediately after that for the tick-tack foul. That pissed me off.

And Bennet Salvatore (I think? the silver haired one) picked up in the 4th quarter where Violet Palmer left off in the first half. I remember this guy from last year, he is generally very unfair on his fouls in regards to the spurs. Duncan had a great block on Stoudemire driving baseline, just smothered it completely. Salvatore somehow thought this was a foul. So Stoudemire got 2 more cheap ones on that play. He also called a traveling on Roger Mason, which (at least on my replay) showed he had established his pivot as his left, and drove leading with his right foot which is perfectly legal. Salvatore was right there 10 feet away making this call too, with no obstruction. That was a critical play as the spurs were building some momentum in the 4th quarter, that traveling snuffed out that momentum.

There was other "questionable" if not outright terrible calls. Kurt Thomas getting called for that foul on Stoudemire going baseline, very questionable.

There was 1 lone play that I thought was a bad call against the suns, and that was in the 4th quarter, when Parker drove to the basket, and used his forearm to push off Grant Hill before making a layup, and they called Hill for a foul. But that was just ONE bad call that went against the Suns the whole game, in contrast to a dozen or so the other way. And yet the spurs still managed to play well enough to almost pull it out at the end, and that was without 1 of their top players (Ginobili)

I think what it shows (other than Stoudemire is making late night visits to Violet Palmer) is that the spurs are far from finished, but my fear is the officials are going to beat them down so hard this year, they may barely miss the playoffs in a very stacked western conference. Hope that's not the case and the spurs can overcome it all, because if they make it into the playoffs and are healthy, they will be honed and tough to take out.

Grant Hill DID foul Tony on that play. As he was slipping and falling he slapped down @ the ball and hacked TP across the arm. Up until that point it was a no call. The officiating is inconsistent all across the board. I try my best to convince myself it all evens out because we can go on forever about the calls. For instance Chris Paul pushes off more than any one i know yet....

[TJastal]

I don't think it was bad officiating for any side...but if you want two examples of questionable calls going the spurs way here they are:

1. non call on offensive foul on parker pushing off Nash near the free-throw line.

2. Charge called on Amare while going to the basket on a dunk while Thomas was still not set.


There you go........ it's the first game of the season and you are already making excuses for your team??.... I'd rather read form spurs fans that your team was incomplete and all those things....but officianting??? common.....you sound like what you guys like to call a suns fan.....

Hey, I never said it was all the refs fault, in fact I pointed out several things the spurs did wrong. It was defenitely a factor in the game however, no matter how you look at it.

The Parker charge into Grant Hill was missed. That's one bad one against the Suns. I pointed that one out before.

The charge Thomas took was questionable, but then again it was Stoudemire, and he was barreling to the basket in usual Amare Stoudemire fashion, and clipped him in the side. The charge they called on Parker was more questionable IMO, that one late in the 4th quarter when he drove baseline and slowed up to loft a cross court pass and just slightly bumped into a suns defender who promptly flopped on his back and was granted the call. Now, if it was Nash he bumped I could possibly believe that the smallest guy on the court (Parker) could run him over. But it wasn't Nash, so its hard to believe, and even JVG pointed out it should have been a no-call. So those two virtually cancel each other out and were still left with the ton of ticky tack calls they fed Stoudemire all game long with and the phantom 4th quarter traveling violation on Mason.

Like I said before, I don't like having to point out the facts, but the facts do exist, and the fact is the spurs got shafted alot in that game.

[hater]

Mason + Ginobili are gonna be a dangerous pair. Both fast, fearless and clutch.

Props to Vaughn. He always does his job to the fullest.

[Fingaroll44]

Officiating? I thought it was one sided to the Spurs? Guess it depends on who you're going for. BTW, you guys scared the hell out of Dragic, hope he's not traumatized.

There were bad calls on both sides. Dragic just flinched right now thinking Jacque Vaughn is stealing the ball from him again. j/k j/k Hes a rookie and he survived so he should be stronger from it.

[Fingaroll44]

OK, put any spin on it that is needed, but Bonner in the second half was straight up awful on both ends of the floor. But Pop kept putting him in.

He has GOT to have photos of Pop doing something with a wine bottle when they were over in Europe.

LOL...thats funny but we only had 3 big men. Tim cant play every single minute.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop should have gone to Farmer and play more small ball vs. playing Bonner that much on the second half.

:lol

Yeah, that would have worked wonders against Amare and Shaq.

Glad you aren't the coach.:lol

[DPG21920]

I am beginning to wonder if people watch the games? Some of the reactions are crazy. These same people are going to be stroking Bonner once he has a good game on Friday.

[Phenomanul]

The only major officiating gaffe... with many of the other 'usual' calls/non-calls evening out... was not calling a flagrant foul on Shaq for raising his forearm to Udoka's face (the intention was clear).

[DPG21920]

The only major officiating gaffe... with many of the other 'usual' calls/non-calls evening out... was not calling a flagrant foul on Shaq for raising his forearm to Udoka's face (the intention was clear).

True. I did not think the officials did a bad job. But that call should have been made.

[TJastal]

The only major officiating gaffe... with many of the other 'usual' calls/non-calls evening out... was not calling a flagrant foul on Shaq for raising his forearm to Udoka's face (the intention was clear).

I wonder sometimes if people who comment on here really watch the games closely or are drinking beer / playing the Xbox while the game is going in the background, or shooting pool at the bar while the game is playing 30 feet above them. And then come on here and feel qualified to share their "expert"
opinions.

There was defenitely some strange calls (*cough* favoritism) going on in this game. And specifically it was Violet Palmer & Bennet Salvatore that were behind it. The other ref did a fine job from what I saw. But Salvatore I already knew was going to be a problem going into this game. I remember him from last year, as the brill-creamed silver haired guy. He was always the first to nail the spurs asses any chance he could for any infraction. So no big surprise really with him. The one that I didn't expect was Palmer, who's calls last night would make one think Stoudemire was her true love and main squeeze. So now we got 2 refs out of 3 who aren't playing fair, and that's a big problem.

Now in regards to the your so called "major" gaffe, I thought that was hilarious watching Shaq get frustrated and knock Udoka on his butt. Even Jeff Van Gundy made light of it, saying Udoka is gonna make Kurt Thomas get in there and take the foul next. It was fucking funny, Udoka was not hurt or injured, and the refs played it off the right away in that instance IMO.

It was the 1000 smaller gaffes the officials committed 98% of which oddly went against the spurs that is the real problem.

[SpursDynasty]

Spurs looked alive out there. When Phoenix beats us, it's usually because our shots didn't fall. That's all that happened.

[angelbelow]

good read.

[Slippy]

Thanks for your thoughts Timvp. I look forward to seeing them through-out the season. For a season opener there's only so much we can take in. had to remind myself not to jump to any early conclusions. Considering how thin the spurs were in the big man department and the tough opponent they were up against, this game had me upbeat about the season coming up. All you can say is that the suns seemed more desperate for the win and spurs more intent about finding out about themselfs.

The biggest plus for me was how impressive Mason looked. The guy just seemed so cool on both ends of the court. I Liked how selective he was with his shot, no pressing for a first timer but they all looked to be in his comfort zone. Tim, Manu and Tony have to feel good knowing they have a teammate such as Mason out on the perimeter to deliver. While Pop got to be content he has a player that will play adequate defense with-out losing any ground on offense. Mason doesn't look like he gonna suffer much from first season blues like many other past and present players.

[Ice009]

I have said this in another thread but..
We didn't lose because of Bonner, or even that Manu is out.
We also didn't lose because of the officiating tonight.
We lost because the suns exploited our greatest weakness which is our defensive presence in the paint. We really need to get some intimidation in there or else I see every team using this area to beat us.
Timmy just cant hold the paint all by himself...

That's exactly why a few of us wanted Watkins. I thought he could give us 5-10 spot minutes a game against teams with athletic bigs.

[Odin-Loon]

Spurs looked alive out there. When Phoenix beats us, it's usually because our shots didn't fall. That's all that happened.


This is true and it was only game #1 of the new season

[Ice009]

I am beginning to wonder if people watch the games? Some of the reactions are crazy. These same people are going to be stroking Bonner once he has a good game on Friday.

I haven't liked Bonner since I first saw him play for the Spurs.

Also, are you fucking kidding me about getting on the Bonner bandwagon if he has a good game Friday? He's going to have to 50 good games before I say he's any good. LOL one good game is not going to make all the Bonner haters love him.

btw I do not hate Matt Bonner or anything like that. I actually like the guy. I just don't like his game or what he does out on the court for the Spurs. Even if he has a ton of good games I still don't know if I'd really want him out there in critical situations or crunch time.

[Obstructed_View]

Also, are you fucking kidding me about getting on the Bonner bandwagon if he has a good game Friday? He's going to have to 50 good games before I say he's any good. LOL one good game is not going to make all the Bonner haters love him.

Refreshing that you recognize it. But 50 games won't be enough. Actually, it'll never happen because if he fills up the stat sheet someone will bitch about his defensive lapse, and if he has no defensive lapses someone will mention the turnover that he caused, but didn't actually get credited for, or the time that the all-NBA player he had to cover scored on him or made a play.

Frankly, if he goes for an entire game without looking to the fucking sideline waiting to get the hook I'll call that a good game. That'll be a good start.

[byrontx]

When Bonner is in he moment, he plays well. When he starts questioning himself he starts screwing up. Some consistent playing time would do him some good.

Thanks for the recap.

[timvp]

I must be the only Spurs fan who was fine with Parker and Duncan shooting those threes. In my view, both players had it rolling. Duncan was shooting lights out from the perimeter. Parker was hitting practically everything he shot. Down three points with under 40 seconds to play, I'll take that chance.

Maybe if Manu were healthy, I'd rather him taking that shot. But when Pop would have drawn up a play for Finley or Mason, I don't think the Parker and Duncan shots were much lower percentage-wise. If you go for two, it would have been nice to play for a stop but the Spurs were getting absolutely no stops. If you foul, Steve Nash is going to the line.

If you give Parker and Duncan an open look apiece to hit a three, chances are one of them would hit it.

Besides, the classicness of Duncan hitting the three to tie the game would have been off the charts :lol

[tlongII]

Suns didn't look too good last night. Bad omen?

[urunobili]

I must be the only Spurs fan who was fine with Parker and Duncan shooting those threes. In my view, both players had it rolling. Duncan was shooting lights out from the perimeter. Parker was hitting practically everything he shot. Down three points with under 40 seconds to play, I'll take that chance.


You're definitively no the only one no.... :nope

[Phenomanul]

Suns didn't look too good last night. Bad omen?


They don't match up well with Paul's Hornets...

[HarlemHeat37]

Phoenix was 0-4 vs. New Orleans last year..