8 House Members View Draft Bill on Independent Science/Tech Probe of WTC 1, 2, 7 Coll

[Galileo]

8 House Members View Draft Bill on Independent Science/Tech Probe of WTC 1, 2, 7 Collapses

by Dr. Barbara Ellis

Page 1 of 22 page(s)

www.opednews.com

A draft bill setting up an independent science and technology investigation into the destruction of World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, and 7 to mandate construction-code changes was presented Sept. 16-17 in Washington D.C. by three Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice for consideration to eight House members and the director and staff of the House Science and Technology committee.[1]

The bill proposes a 25-member committee with subpoena power, selected from the national and international community of renown scientists, structural engineers, architects, and other technological specialists including those in demolition, advanced weaponry, and 9/11 first-responders.[2]

The proposed legislation was researched and authored by four members of the Scholars for 9/11 Truth organization from Oregon and Maryland.[3]

The pdf of the suggested bill is at the end of this article.

Presentations were made to science and technology legislative staffers of House members Reps. Rush Holt (D-NJ-12), Jay Inslee (D-WA-1), Walter Jones (R-NC-3), Dan Lipinski (D-IL-3), Jim McGovern (D-MA-3), Ed Markey (D-MA-78), Dana Rohrabacker (R-CA-46), and John Tierney (D-MA-6). Two are members of the House Science and Technology committee: Lipinski is vice chair, and Rohrabacker is the third-ranking Republican. Only one staffer (Tierney’s) was disinterested. Another (Rohrabacker’s) asked the presenters for an additional hour of discussion.[4]

The bill’s aim is to investigate the 14 major theories about what destroyed WTC 1, 2, and 7 that have been widely circulating nationally and internationally since September 2001, and, secondly, to urge Congressional action to mandate federal building-code changes for high-rise buildings (115+ feet ) both before construction or in remodeling the more than the existing 16,000.[5]

They made three points in the presentation:

• That determination of the cause(s) of WTC 1, 2, 7 collapses are vital for a federally mandated national change in building codes for high-rise structures consistent with the investigation’s findings.

•That previous investigations on the collapses were either significantly limited, as was that of the 9/11 Commission in 2004 and the Federal Emergency Management agency (FEMA) in 2002. Two later studies by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)—2005 on WTC 1/2 and 2008 on WTC 7— at an estimated public cost of $50 million have been judged by scientific and technical experts to be significantly limited, biased, and heavily flawed in fundamental research methods.[6]

•That both national and international demands are growing for a substantive science and technology investigation by an independent group to determine the collapse cause(s).

If this proposed bill—with a $10 million price tag—is accepted by one or several House members, it will be revised for hoppering in the next session of Congress and presumably assigned to the 40-member House Science and Technology committee for hearings and a vote. If passed, it will move to a House floor vote and, from there, to the Senate committee for the same process. If signed into law by the next President, the House committee will select 25-member investigation group giving it subpoena power to probe the 14 theories of collapses to determine the cause(s). They will have a six-month deadline to issue a report on findings for recommendations to Congress mandating federal codes for developers, builders, and remodelers of high-rise buildings.

The draft bill’s origins stemmed from 2007 correspondence between Joel S. Hirschhorn, Ph.D. and Oregon attorney Virginia Ross. Hirschhorn was a former professor of engineering at the University of Wisconsin/Madison before becoming a Capitol Hill veteran as a senior associate at the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment. He was involved in providing expertise, drafting bills, and appearing in hearings as an expert witness on technology issues. Ross is former Air Force officer and an expert and lecturer on 9/11 events, and member of the Portland 911 Truth Alliance organization.

The two were among the thousands of science and technology experts questioning as limited, significantly flawed and largely implausible preliminary reports on the WTC collapses issued by FEMA and NIST indicating fire was the cause. This conclusion has even run counter to President George Bush’s press- conference statement in mid-September 2006 that “explosives” might have been planted in the three buildings. To draft and promote a bill to Congress, Ross contacted Portland’s three Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice: Barry Ball, Barbara G. Ellis, Ph.D., and Warren Pease.[7]

Their draft bill took months of research, discussion, and writing before the final draft was sent for review and changes to Hirschhorn and 22 nationally recognized experts either on the 9/11 event or renown in the scientific and technological fields about the collapses. Among them were three other Scholars in the vanguard of science and technology field issuing the initial adverse verdicts on NIST’s August 2008 report about the WTC 7.[8]

The last step was determining which of the 435 U.S. House members might have interest in and/or expertise in building-code safety regulations or in settling the 9/11 controversy concerning the WTC collapses. That involved a content analyses of every bill that members hoppered from January 2007 to August 2008 regardless of party affiliation. They followed up by the September trip to Washington, D.C. to talk to the Representative’s science and technology legislative assistants.

Post 9/11 Code Changes for High-Rise Buildings

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22

Dr. Ellis is the principal of Ellis & Associates, LLC, a writers group in Portland OR, a nominee for a Pulitzer Prize in history in 2004, and a former journalism professor at Louisiana's McNeese State University and Oregon State University. She is an active member of the South Side DFA MeetUp Group of Portland and a Scholar for 9/11 Truth & Justice as well as the PDX 9/11Truth Alliance.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/8-House-Members-View-Draft-by-Barbara-Ellis-081018-925.html

[I Love Me Some Me]

You lost me at "page 1 of 22".

[DarrinS]

How many THOUSANDS of structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, etc etc etc have to weigh in on this assinine subject before it goes away?


911 CONSPIRACIES HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED -- GET A LIFE !!!!!

[Galileo]

How many THOUSANDS of structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, etc etc etc have to weigh in on this assinine subject before it goes away?


911 CONSPIRACIES HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED -- GET A LIFE !!!!!

If it's been debunked, why are they investigating it again?

[Galileo]

You lost me at "page 1 of 22".

click on the link at the bottom of the page, Sarah.

[Galileo]

http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/images/wtc-7.gif

[Shastafarian]

Lasers? Aliens? Strategically places demolitions? What took down the towers?

[Galileo]

Lasers? Aliens? Strategically places demolitions? What took down the towers?

The Axis of Evil: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld.

[Shastafarian]

The Axis of Evil: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld.

How'd they do it? Fake planes? Fake passengers? Fake terrorists?

[LnGrrrR]

So who are the names of the 9/11 truthers in office? lol

[LnGrrrR]

If it's been debunked, why are they investigating it again?

Probably because they have friends doing the research...

[BacktoBasics]

It will never go away. Its the core cause of the wars this country is waging right now. A war with zero proof of justification has ever taken place.

[doobs]

The Earth is the center of the universe.

Investigate Galileo.

[Galileo]

How'd they do it? Fake planes? Fake passengers? Fake terrorists?

explosives

[Galileo]

So who are the names of the 9/11 truthers in office? lol

Sarah Palin, governor of Alaska.

[Galileo]

The Earth is the center of the universe.

Investigate Galileo.

Galileo WAS investigated!

http://faithjustice.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/galileo_facing_the_roman_inquisition.jpg

http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/HistImages/A_003_3GalileoBeforeInquisition.jpg

http://www.galilean-library.org/images/trial.jpg

http://www.exploringmars.com/history/galileo_trial_m.gif



:ihit

[Shastafarian]

explosives

So they went in and placed explosives in each building? Who supervised such an undertaking? Is there a super-secret demolition company I don't know about?

[Galileo]

So they went in and placed explosives in each building? Who supervised such an undertaking? Is there a super-secret demolition company I don't know about?

It was a military operation.

No, they did not hire a commercial demolition company. If they had done that, they would have been caught.

the military does not hire commercial demolition companies, stupid, they have their own explosives.

[ChumpDumper]

Silent, invisible explosives that can be placed by teleportation and leave no trace.

[Shastafarian]

It was a military operation.

No, they did not hire a commercial demolition company. If they had done that, they would have been caught.

the military does not hire commercial demolition companies, stupid, they have their own explosives.

Oh so they got the military to do it. Where were these men stationed? How many were used? It seems to me that to place explosives so extensively throughout buildings of that size would take a very long time unless you have a lot of men working.

[Galileo]

Silent, invisible explosives that can be placed by teleportation and leave no trace.

They left a huge trace, the ripped steel of the WTC, explosive dust clouds, and loud noises.

[Galileo]

Oh so they got the military to do it. Where were these men stationed? How many were used? It seems to me that to place explosives so extensively throughout buildings of that size would take a very long time unless you have a lot of men working.

Who is "they"?

[ChumpDumper]

They left a huge trace, the ripped steel of the WTC, explosive dust clouds, and loud noises.That's all from the collapse.

No explosive residue. No detcord. No cuts through walls and fireproofing to attach to structural members. No logical placement point for a top-down collapse.

[Shastafarian]

Who is "they"?

You tell me. Who orchestrated all of this?

[RandomGuy]

If it's been debunked, why are they investigating it again?


:lmao

Dude, they are not "investigating" it again, you dimwit.

[Galileo]

That's all from the collapse.

No explosive residue. No detcord. No cuts through walls and fireproofing to attach to structural members. No logical placement point for a top-down collapse.

What's your evidence they used det cord and not radio controlled explosives?

[Galileo]

You tell me. Who orchestrated all of this?

The evildoers did it.

[ChumpDumper]

What's your evidence they used det cord and not radio controlled explosives?What's your evidence they used radio controlled explosives?

[Shastafarian]

The evildoers did it.

Seriously. Who orchestrated this, the largest cover up in the history of the United States?

[Galileo]

What's your evidence they used radio controlled explosives?

They didn't find any det cord.

[Shastafarian]

It was a military operation.

No, they did not hire a commercial demolition company. If they had done that, they would have been caught.

the military does not hire commercial demolition companies, stupid, they have their own explosives.


They didn't find any det cord.

:lol at this guy calling me stupid

[Galileo]

Seriously. Who orchestrated this, the largest cover up in the history of the United States?

What was the largest cover up in the history of the United States, and who orchestrated it?

[ChumpDumper]

They didn't find any det cord.So that is evidence that laser beams from space and David Blaine did it as well. Hell, I present the absence of detcord as evidence you did it.

You have no defense for that. You might as well turn yourself in now.

[Shastafarian]

I'm gonna go ahead and claim the Colossus of Rhodes was demolished on purpose. They did it by radio transmitter and there's nothing you can do to disprove me because they didn't find any det cord in the ruins.

[Shastafarian]

What was the largest cover up in the history of the United States, and who orchestrated it?

Huh? The largest cover up would be the military secretly demolishing a portion of Lower Manhattan.

[RandomGuy]

They didn't find any det cord.

So... if they didn't find pink pixies, it was evidence that the purple pixies did it?

[RandomGuy]

They didn't find any det cord.

They didn't find any det cord, so that means it was unicorn dust that was used to drop the buildings?

[Galileo]

I'm gonna go ahead and claim the Colossus of Rhodes was demolished on purpose. They did it by radio transmitter and there's nothing you can do to disprove me because they didn't find any det cord in the ruins.

Wrong, it was an earthquake. they didn;t have radios back then.

:rollin

[RandomGuy]

Wrong, it was an earthquake. they didn;t have radios back then.

:rollin

They didn't find any det cord when the Hindenberg went up in flames.

[ChumpDumper]

Wrong, it was an earthquake. they didn;t have radios back then.

:rollinTime machine.

Prove to me a time machine wasn't used.

[Shastafarian]

Wrong, it was an earthquake. they didn;t have radios back then.

:rollin

:bang

[LnGrrrR]

Ok, I have some experience with military EOD (got through half the course before failing out). I'm sure that some special ops units used radio controlled fusings, but for the most part, EOD uses det cord and sympathetic detonation, or just use JRODs. And I highly doubt that you would be able to a) make sure each soldier that was involved didn't speak, b) were able to hide the equipment, and c) activate the signal via radio waves without some third party noticing.

Disclaimer: Not an expert, but as listed above, some experience with EOD, and I am now a comm troop, so some experience with radio signals and propagation.

[Shastafarian]

Time machine.

Prove to me a time machine wasn't used.

There was no time machine residue, therefore one much have been used but everyone who knows about it keeps secrets really well.

[Galileo]

So that is evidence that laser beams from space and David Blaine did it as well. Hell, I present the absence of detcord as evidence you did it.

You have no defense for that. You might as well turn yourself in now.

There's no evidence of laser beams. No one saw them.

[Galileo]

Huh? The largest cover up would be the military secretly demolishing a portion of Lower Manhattan.

bigger than killing all the Indians or slavery. Nope.

[ChumpDumper]

There's no evidence of laser beams. No one saw them.There's no evidence of planted explosives. No one saw any evidence of planted explosives.

[ChumpDumper]

bigger than killing all the Indians or slavery. Nope.Those weren't covered up at all.

[Galileo]

They didn't find any det cord when the Hindenberg went up in flames.

That blew up from a spark igniting the hydrogen. You're right, no det cord.

[LnGrrrR]

bigger than killing all the Indians or slavery. Nope.

Ok, this post, and the post before it, proves Galileo to be a troll right? No one would honestly say, "No one saw laser beams" as an excuse that laser beams weren't used, after saying that no det cord was found so that means it must be radio-fused. And no one would say slavery or killing Native Americans was a coverup. He's GOTTA be a troll heh.

[Galileo]

There was no time machine residue, therefore one much have been used but everyone who knows about it keeps secrets really well.

The time machine residue was blasted into the 22nd century. We won't find it for another 100 years or so.

[Shastafarian]

bigger than killing all the Indians or slavery. Nope.

Are you serious? Killing Indians and Slavery were "cover ups"? You're not that stupid. Please tell me you're not that stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, this post, and the post before it, proves Galileo to be a troll right? No one would honestly say, "No one saw laser beams" as an excuse that laser beams weren't used, after saying that no det cord was found so that means it must be radio-fused. And no one would say slavery or killing Native Americans was a coverup. He's GOTTA be a troll heh.He's mentally ill.

[RandomGuy]

There's no evidence of laser beams. No one saw them.

Silly vanilli.

Light is not restricted to visible wavelengths, so neither are lasers.

(hint: xrays)

[ChumpDumper]

Silly vanilli.

Light is not restricted to visible wavelengths, so neither are lasers.

(hint: xrays)xrayzebra is in on it!

[RandomGuy]

Ok, this post, and the post before it, proves Galileo to be a troll right? No one would honestly say, "No one saw laser beams" as an excuse that laser beams weren't used, after saying that no det cord was found so that means it must be radio-fused. And no one would say slavery or killing Native Americans was a coverup. He's GOTTA be a troll heh.

Since you are new:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65131

Read through a good chunk of it. He comes in towards the middle.

He isn't quite a troll, just very fervent in his religion. (9-11 truth cult)

[Shastafarian]

Since you are new:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65131

Read through a good chunk of it. He comes in towards the middle.

He isn't quite a troll, just very fervent in his religion. (9-11 truth cult)

He thinks slavery and killing indians were cover ups. Either he's an immense idiot or he's a troll. You going with immense idiot?

[Galileo]

Ok, this post, and the post before it, proves Galileo to be a troll right? No one would honestly say, "No one saw laser beams" as an excuse that laser beams weren't used, after saying that no det cord was found so that means it must be radio-fused. And no one would say slavery or killing Native Americans was a coverup. He's GOTTA be a troll heh.

You don't think killing millions of Indians is worse than 9/11?

[Galileo]

He thinks slavery and killing indians were cover ups. Either he's an immense idiot or he's a troll. You going with immense idiot?

If it wasn't a cover up, how did the white man get away with killing the Indians?

[RandomGuy]

He thinks slavery and killing indians were cover ups. Either he's an immense idiot or he's a troll. You going with immense idiot?

Yeah, I would go more for an idiot than a troll.

A troll is a semi-fake act. This guy isn't acting like he is an idiot, he IS an idiot.

[RandomGuy]

If it wasn't a cover up, how did the white man get away with killing the Indians?

um, what?

There wasn't any det cord, so we can be pretty sure that they were killed in a controlled demolition.

[DarrinS]

So, to be a 911 truther you have to believe the following scenarios:


Explosives were planted in WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 (we can't leave out WTC7, because WTC7, being less than ½ the height of WTC1,2 will cause twice as much terror.) No one saw anybody plant these explosives and there is no evidence of any after the collapse.


Then, the govt had get some remote controlled airplanes to crash into the buildings at the exact area where they planted the explosives. After all, the building began to fail at the locations where the planes struck (except for mysterious WTC7 <gasp>). They had to get some airplaines, because terrorists have never been known to just plant bombs in buildings and, besides, airplanes with fake hijackers create even more terror.


The govt then had to hire actors to portray the real passengers that were on the 4 flights. These actors had to make phone calls to family members of people that were on the planes. They also had to hire actors to play the part of the terrorists. These actors had to attend flight schools and had to purchase tickets and board the planes. After all, they had to fly the REAL passengers to some undisclosed location, like Area 51.


Then, for some reason, instead of using an airplane again, the govt decided to fire a missle at the Pentagon. The missle had to be loaded with real aircraft parts, which would be scattered about the site to make it look real.


Then, for whatever reason, the govt crashed or shot down something that wasn't an airplane into some field near Shanksville, PA. I guess they wanted to terrorize nearby cows. This unidentified object also was loaded with real aircraft parts to make it look real.



All sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Galileo]

Yeah, I would go more for an idiot than a troll.

A troll is a semi-fake act. This guy isn't acting like he is an idiot, he IS an idiot.

RandomGuy is an idiot posing as an intelligent person!

[ChumpDumper]

If it wasn't a cover up, how did the white man get away with killing the Indians?It wasn't a cover up because it wasn't covered up.

[Galileo]

So, to be a 911 truther you have to believe the following scenarios:


Explosives were planted in WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 (we can't leave out WTC7, because WTC7, being less than ½ the height of WTC1,2 will cause twice as much terror.) No one saw anybody plant these explosives and there is no evidence of any after the collapse.


Then, the govt had get some remote controlled airplanes to crash into the buildings at the exact area where they planted the explosives. After all, the building began to fail at the locations where the planes struck (except for mysterious WTC7 <gasp>). They had to get some airplaines, because terrorists have never been known to just plant bombs in buildings and, besides, airplanes with fake hijackers create even more terror.



Sounds good so far.




The govt then had to hire actors to portray the real passengers that were on the 4 flights. These actors had to make phone calls to family members of people that were on the planes. They also had to hire actors to play the part of the terrorists. These actors had to attend flight schools and had to purchase tickets and board the planes. After all, they had to fly the REAL passengers to some undisclosed location, like Area 51.



The hijackers and passengers were real, never heard this one before.




Then, for some reason, instead of using an airplane again, the govt decided to fire a missle at the Pentagon. The missle had to be loaded with real aircraft parts, which would be scattered about the site to make it look real.



The plane hit the Pentagon.




Then, for whatever reason, the govt crashed or shot down something that wasn't an airplane into some field near Shanksville, PA. I guess they wanted to terrorize nearby cows. This unidentified object also was loaded with real aircraft parts to make it look real.



They shot FL93 down in Pennsylvannia.




All sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Agreed.

[Galileo]

It wasn't a cover up because it wasn't covered up.

What's your definition of a cover up?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would they shoot down flight 93?

[ChumpDumper]

What's your definition of a cover up?Covering something up.

[DarrinS]

The hijackers and passengers were real, never heard this one before.




How did they get the hijackers to cooporate?

[Galileo]

Why would they shoot down flight 93?

Between 9:45 and 9:55, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld consulted. The operation was over, so they had to shoot FL93 down before it got back to NYC to hit WTC 7.

It would have been too suspicious for FL93 to fly in and hit WTC 7 that late.

[Galileo]

How did they get the hijackers to cooporate?

cashola.

[DarrinS]

Between 9:45 and 9:55, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld consulted. The operation was over, so they had to shoot FL93 down before it got back to NYC to hit WTC 7.

It would have been too suspicious for FL93 to fly in and hit WTC 7 that late.



Yeah, because WTC7 collapsing by itself wouldn't arouse any suspicion. :rolleyes

[Galileo]

Covering something up.

Covering what up?

[DarrinS]

cashola.


Pretty hard to use the cashola when you're dead.

[Galileo]

Yeah, because WTC7 collapsing by itself wouldn't arouse any suspicion. :rolleyes

It didn't rouse you from your slumber.

[DarrinS]

It didn't rouse you from your slumber.


I was too busy paying attention to the big buildings.

[Galileo]

Pretty hard to use the cashola when you're dead.

They didn't tell 'em that part. Remember, these are evildoers doing this.

:downspin::downspin::downspin:

[DarrinS]

They didn't tell 'em that part. Remember, these are evildoers doing this.

:downspin::downspin::downspin:



So, the hijackers thought they would survive a 500 mph crash into a building? Man, they are dumb.

[ChumpDumper]

Between 9:45 and 9:55, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld consulted. The operation was over, so they had to shoot FL93 down before it got back to NYC to hit WTC 7.It wasn't flying to NYC.

There is no evidence of a shootdown.

[ChumpDumper]

Covering what up?Something.

[Galileo]

So, the hijackers thought they would survive a 500 mph crash into a building? Man, they are dumb.

No, they thought they were going to Cuba. The planes were remote controlled into the towers. The hijackers were shitty pilots anyway.

[ChumpDumper]

No, they thought they were going to Cuba.Why would Arabs hijack a plane to Cuba?


The planes were remote controlled into the towers. The hijackers were shitty pilots anyway.You don't have to be a good pilot to crash a plane.

[Galileo]

It wasn't flying to NYC.

There is no evidence of a shootdown.

There's a lot of evidence. For one thing, the plane broke up at high altitude.

[Galileo]

Why would Arabs hijack a plane to Cuba?

You don't have to be a good pilot to crash a plane.

Maybe at the WTC, but not the Pentagon. That required super-expert skill.

People go to Cuba to live out their days on the beach, drinking Pina Colada's and banging cheap native women. That fits in with the Atta playboy lifestyle.

[ChumpDumper]

There's a lot of evidence. For one thing, the plane broke up at high altitude.Except it didn't. It hit a field at a fairly steep angle.

[CubanMustGo]

Galileo must be a penguin.

http://penguingeek.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/humor-penguin-logic.jpg

[Galileo]

Except it didn't. It hit a field at a fairly steep angle.

Wrong. The debris was found over several square miles.

The first hijacking was reported at 8:15.

You don't think the military could track down a giant airliner by 10?

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld decided to shoot the last plane down at about 9:50.

The plane was hit at 9:58.

[ChumpDumper]

Maybe at the WTC, but not the Pentagon. That required super-expert skill.Not at all.


People go to Cuba to live out their days on the beach, drinking Pina Colada's and banging cheap native women. That fits in with the Atta playboy lifestyle.That wasn't Atta. All this has been debunked long ago.

[ChumpDumper]

Wrong. The debris was found over several square miles.Because it hit the ground at 563 mph.


The first hijacking was reported at 8:15.

You don't think the military could track down a giant airliner by 10?Considering the military wasn't notified of the hijackings until after the crashes and the general confusion of the day, no.


Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld decided to shoot the last plane down at about 9:50.Except they didn't. All three were surrounded by many people who heard no such thing.


The plane was hit at 9:58.No, it was flown into the ground at 10:03.

[Galileo]

Not at all.

That wasn't Atta. All this has been debunked long ago.

Pilot who flew 2 planes used on 9/11 doesn't believe official story

Former Air Force fighter pilot Russ Wittenberg, who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam, sat in the cockpit for Pan Am and United for over 30 years, and previously flew two of the actual airplanes that were allegedly hijacked on 9/11 (United Airlines Flight 175 & 93), does not believe the government's official 9/11 conspiracy theory... RUSS WITTENBERG: "I flew the two actual aircraft which were involved in 9/11... Fight number 175 and Flight 93, the 757 that allegedly went down in Shanksville and Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for... a so-called terrorist to train on a 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns,.. pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's... I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3606159506368831731&ei=N0IKSZ6wLJSM-QHc6NiXCg&q=russ+wittenburg&hl=en

THE SECRET WORLD OF MOHAMED ATTA

An exclusive 19-minute video interview with Amanda Keller, Mohamed Attaâ s erstwhile American girlfriend, refuting sworn testimony given by a Pentagon official last week at the Able Danger hearing, who said the U.S. had not identified Mohamed Atta prior to 9/11. The interview makes it clear that the hijackers werenâ t hidingâ not even in plain sightâ before the attack. The only thing hiding has been the major media, which has refused to report honestly the true story of the terrorists who lived in our midst. Atta drank,did cocaine, and partied in KeyWest, all dubious actvities for an Islamic fundamentalist...but not for a drug smuggler... During the same month Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi arrived at his Venice, FL flight school, the flight school ownerâ s Lear jet was seized by DEA agents who found 43 pounds of heroin aboard. Heroin comes from Afghanistan, doesn't it? And before 9.11 Osama Bin Laden RAN Afghanistan. So who was he trading with in the U.S.?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7746174590105525480&ei=rEIKSZiwNYfA-wGrkvz3Dg&q=amanda+keller&hl=en

[ChumpDumper]

In a taped interview that has circled the Internet, Keller casually discusses intimate details about her relationship with "Mohamed." She claimed it was Atta, but changed her story soon after.

"It was my bad for lying," Keller said. "I really didn't think about it until after I did it."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609100466/1007/BUSINESS

Like I said. Debunked long ago.

[Galileo]

Because it hit the ground at 563 mph.

Considering the military wasn't notified of the hijackings until after the crashes and the general confusion of the day, no.

Except they didn't. All three were surrounded by many people who heard no such thing.

No, it was flown into the ground at 10:03.

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are not accounted for between 9:45 and 9:55:

9/11 Commission Deception, Cheney's Actions on 9/11, and Why He Should Testify Under Oath
by Peter Dale Scott
http://journalof911studies.com/volum...ustTestify.pdf

No phone calls on FL93 were attempted after 9:58, or lasted beyond 9:58.

(except the calls of Todd Beamer and Jeremy Glick, which lasted until 10:43 and 11:43. These two calls were fake, the rest were real.)

[Galileo]

In a taped interview that has circled the Internet, Keller casually discusses intimate details about her relationship with "Mohamed." She claimed it was Atta, but changed her story soon after.

"It was my bad for lying," Keller said. "I really didn't think about it until after I did it."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/609100466/1007/BUSINESS

Like I said. Debunked long ago.

This is just a second hand reprt, not admissible evidence. Keller is obviously NOT lying on the video. You obviously have not watched it.

[ChumpDumper]

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are not accounted for between 9:45 and 9:55:Sure they are.


No phone calls on FL93 were attempted after 9:58, or lasted beyond 9:58.Because the passengers were trying to break into the cockpit. Forgive them, they were a little too busy to talk to you.


(except the calls of Todd Beamer and Jeremy Glick, which lasted until 10:43 and 11:43. These two calls were fake, the rest were real.)Quit making up stuff.

[ChumpDumper]

This is just a second hand reprt, not admissible evidence. Keller is obviously NOT lying on the video. You obviously have not watched it.I have watched it and Keller said she lied first hand.

[romad_20]

You don't have to be a good pilot to crash a plane.

Ask John McCain

Zinger!

[Galileo]

Sure they are.

Because the passengers were trying to break into the cockpit. Forgive them, they were a little too busy to talk to you.

Quit making up stuff.

15 phone call factoids that contradict the official government conspiracy theory

[please note that these were all AIRPHONE CALLS, not cell phone calls, except CeeCee Lyle's unconnected call from FL93]

1) Betty Ong and Madeline Sweeney on FL11 said there were 4 hijackers, not 5. Both gave the "wrong" seat numbers for the hijackers.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=betty_ong

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=madeline_(_amy_)_sweeney

2) Mark Bingham on FL93 said there were 3 hijackers, not 4.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=mark_bingham&printe...

3) Renee May on FL77 said there were 6 hijackers, not 5.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/0...

4) Most of Ong's phone call recording is missing.

5) Ong and/or Sweeney gave specific information that the hijackers had guns (which contradicts the "boxcutters" theory). They even gave the exact seat number of the shooter and the shoo-tee.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a833passengerdead

6) Tom Burnett on FL93 said the hijackers had guns.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=deena_burnett

7) Todd Beamer's call on FL93 lasted until 10:48 AM, long after the plane was shot down/crashed. The person who took Beamer's call, Lisa Jefferson, heard no screaming or crashing noises.

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/calldetail.html

8) Jeremy Glick's call on FL93 lasted until 11:43 AM, long after the plane was shot down/crashed. The person who took Glick's call, Joanne Makely, heard no screaming or crashing noises.

9) No call on FL93 was attempted after 9:53 (Honor Waino's), except unconnected calls by Edward Felt and CeeCee Lyles at 9:58. No call (besides Beamer's and Glick's) lasted beyond 9:58, when the Sandy Bradshaw and Waino calls ended. The plane supposedly crashed at 10:03 or 10:06.

10) Ted Olson on FL77 lied, he never got a phone call from Barbara Olson.

11) Call recordings are missing for calls by Beamer (FL93), Bradshaw (FL93), and Sweeney (FL11).

12) Five "unknown" calls were made from FL77 to unknown numbers.

13) A 95-second "unknown" call was made from FL93 and the recording is missing.

14) The recording of 2 calls on FL175 are missing.

15) Sweeny on FL11 gave the "wrong" time for the cockpit takeover. She said it happened no earlier than 8:22, but communication with FL11 was supposedly lost at 8:15.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=aa11&timelin...

Conclusions

1) The hijackers had guns. We don't know exactly who they were, were they were seated, or how many there were.

2) Missing recordings indicate that most of the calls contained information which contradicts the official conspiracy theory.

3) The most heavily promoted calls are most likely to be suspect, and the least promoted calls are most likely to be genuine.

Air Traffic Controller Andy Kornkven (who was mysteriously NOT scheduled to work on 9/11), has some good analysis of the phone calls on his blog:

andrewkornkven's blog
http://www.911blogger.com/blog/253

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16015#comment-189325

[Galileo]

I have watched it and Keller said she lied first hand.

You lied, not Keller.

[smeagol]

Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld decided to shoot the last plane down at about 9:50.

I'm sure you have plenty of evidence to back this up . . .

[ChumpDumper]

You lied, not Keller.Keller lied and admitted it.

[Galileo]

I'm sure you have plenty of evidence to back this up . . .

Peer reviewd paper proves it:

9/11 Commission Deception, Cheney’s Actions on 9/11, and Why He Should Testify Under Oath
Prof. Peter Dale Scott
http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:WOg2g9sxoFwJ:www.journalof911studie s.com/+9/11+Commission+Deception,+Cheney%27s+Actions+on+9/11,+and+Why+He+Should+Testify+Under+Oath&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

[Galileo]

Keller lied and admitted it.

Once you've made an admission, you can't just take it back. The video interview is closer to 9/11, so it is more reliable.

[ChumpDumper]

blah blah blahYes the Bush decided to put a sixth hijacker on a plane and not account for him. Brilliant.

[ChumpDumper]

Once you've made an admission, you can't just take it back.:lol Quit making stuff up.

Her admission was she lied, and she never took that back.

[Galileo]

Yes the Bush decided to put a sixth hijacker on a plane and not account for him. Brilliant.

That's what the eyewitness reported. She was in the plane (FL77), not the FBI.

[Galileo]

:lol Quit making stuff up.

Her admission was she lied, and she never took that back.

Here interview is detailed and specific and on camera and close to the time of 9/11. Your stuff is vague and far removed from 9/11, and she was pressured by the NWO.

[ChumpDumper]

That's what the eyewitness reported. She was in the plane (FL77), not the FBI.so why would Bush put a sixth hijacker on a plane without accounting for him at all.

In a stressful situation like a hijacking, it is definitely possible and more believable that she was just off by one.

[ChumpDumper]

Here interview is detailed and specific and on camera and close to the time of 9/11. Your stuff is vague and far removed from 9/11, and she was pressured by the NWO.She wasn't pressured by anyone.

She lied.

She admitted she lied.

[Galileo]

so why would Bush put a sixth hijacker on a plane without accounting for him at all.

In a stressful situation like a hijacking, it is definitely possible and more believable that she was just off by one.

Almost all the passengers on every plane was "off". How in the hell does the FBI know how many hijackers there were on each plane? They can only go by what the witnesses say.

In stressful situations, you are going to be more accurate and precise.

[Galileo]

She wasn't pressured by anyone.

She lied.

She admitted she lied.

She lied about what?

[ChumpDumper]

Almost all the passengers on every plane was "off".Exceept they weren't.


How in the hell does the FBI know how many hijackers there were on each plane?They used their own names and left a paper trail of all their actions and movements.


In stressful situations, you are going to be more accurate and precise.Absolutely not.

[ChumpDumper]

She lied about what?About knowing Atta.

[Shastafarian]

I was gonna go on about how stupid Galileo is for thinking slavery and killing indians were cover ups but he's done a much better job of proving he's an idiot than I ever could have.

[Nbadan]

Keller didn't lie about knowing Atta...and Atta and his 'religious fanatic' buddies were shoving coke up every cheap hooker's nose in Venice Florida.....this is well documented.......don't know if Keller refuted her story later about knowing Atta because she was intimidated or because she got tired of being hassled by every tom, dick and joe after the 911 Commission (which had less cred than the Warren commission) ignored her story...the owner of the aviation company Atta was training at has some dubious connections to planes that later got busted in Mexico with tons of coke that had connection to a secret front company...

[Nbadan]

For all we know Atta and some of his buddies were in the exact same bar where Amanda Keller worked the night before 9/11, but Chumpy wants us to believe that Amanda didn't know Atta...


(AP) Three men spewed anti-American sentiments in a bar and talked of impending bloodshed the night before the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, a Daytona Beach strip club manager interviewed by the FBI said Thursday.

"They were talking about what a bad place America is. They said 'Wait 'til tomorrow. America is going to see bloodshed,"' said John Kap, manager of the Pink Pony and Red Eyed Jack's Sports Bar. Kap said they made the claims to a bartender and a patron.

Federal agents were investigating on several fronts in Florida on Thursday after searching homes and rental car documents and poring over flight school student records across the state.

The Boston Globe reported on its web site Thursday that it had obtained a copy of the complete manifest list of the planes hijacked from Boston.

The Globe said according to the manifest, Mohamed Atta, one of the suspected terrorists, was assigned seat 8D in business class on American Airlines Flight 11, directly across the aisle from Hollywood producer David Angell and his wife, Lynn, who were in seats 8A and 8B, respectively. Seated next to Atta in seat 8G was Abdul Alomari. FBI investigators have searched Alomari's home in Vero Beach.

The Globe reported the passenger list for United Air Lines Flight 175 shows that Marwan Alshehri got on the plane that left Boston and slammed into one of the Manhattan skyscrapers 15 minutes after Flight 11. An FAA pilot directory information spelled his name Marwan Alshehhi.

In Daytona Beach, Kap said he told FBI investigators the men in his bar spent $200 to $300 apiece on lap dances and drinks, paying with credit cards. Kap said he gave the FBI credit card receipts, photocopied driver's licenses, a business card left by one man and a copy of the Quran - the sacred book of Islam - that was left at the bar.

The FBI asked him not to reveal the men's names publicly, Kap said. He said they lived in three central Florida communities between Daytona Beach and Orlando. FBI Miami spokeswoman Judy Orihuela did not immediately return a phone call.

CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/14/national/main311268.shtml)

[Nbadan]

Muhamed Atta, Wolfgang Boringer and Amanda Keller..

9mQYkrAm9rI

hmmmmmm.......with all these dubious connections we may not know about Atta's real connections in Venice, Germany, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for many, many years...

[ChumpDumper]

For all we know Atta and some of his buddies were in the exact same bar where Amanda Keller worked the night before 9/11, but Chumpy wants us to believe that Amanda didn't know Atta...



CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/14/national/main311268.shtml)Sorry, that article doesn't say that was Atta and his buddies.

Amanda says she lied about Atta.

That's all there is to it.

After seven years, all you have is nothing.

[DarrinS]

The more elaborate the conspiracy, the dumber the conspiracy theorist.


The OJ Simpson "frame job" conspiracy is so much more likely than the 911 conspiracy and the OJ conspiracy is VERY unlikely.


BTW, lone gunman Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK. Sorry Oliver Stone.


You may now proceed with the rest of this retarded thread.

[Galileo]

Muhamed Atta, Wolfgang Boringer and Amanda Keller..

9mQYkrAm9rI

hmmmmmm.......with all these dubious connections we may not know about Atta's real connections in Venice, Germany, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia for many, many years...

Great post. The idea that Atta, a drunken stripclub loving, pork-chop loving gambling and alcohol addict was the fundamentalist ringleader of the hijackers is idiotic.

[DarkReign]

They didn't tell 'em that part. Remember, these are evildoers doing this.

:downspin::downspin::downspin:

Ugh, man, if youre going to try and be the spokesman for Truthers, at least learn to lie better.

When someone asks the rhetroical question "What good is money when youre dead?"

You should respond with "The money wasnt for them, it was for their families. They were martyrs for their religion and were promised their families would ahve a better life..." or some such shit.

Either way, Im done caring about 9/11. Yeah, I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing, but some times you just got to GTFOI.

[Galileo]

Ugh, man, if youre going to try and be the spokesman for Truthers, at least learn to lie better.

When someone asks the rhetroical question "What good is money when youre dead?"

You should respond with "The money wasnt for them, it was for their families. They were martyrs for their religion and were promised their families would ahve a better life..." or some such shit.

Either way, Im done caring about 9/11. Yeah, I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing, but some times you just got to GTFOI.

I forgot to mention that Atta was a big coke-head. The $100,000 the ISI wired to Atta could buy a lotta good blow, and get Atta wired.

[ChumpDumper]

Atta didn't do drugs. Amanda Keller lied about knowing him. There is no corroboration from phone records or any records that would connect the two. Keller said she lied and the facts back that up.

Now you're lying.

[Galileo]

Atta didn't do drugs. Amanda Keller lied about knowing him. There is no corroboration from phone records or any records that would connect the two. Keller said she lied and the facts back that up.

Now you're lying.

Keller lied about telling a lie.

[ChumpDumper]

Keller lied about telling a lie.There was never any corroborating evidence that she knew Atta at all.