Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Blazers Oct. 31

[timvp]

In the first road game for the San Antonio Spurs in the 2008-09 season, the Spurs and the Portland Trail Blazers put on an entertaining show. After leading by as many as 12 points in the fourth quarter, the Blazers were able to hold on to win 100-99 when Michael Finley’s short jumper rimmed out at the buzzer.

The Spurs dug their way out of their fourth quarter hole in large part due to a barrage of three-pointers by Ime Udoka, Michael Finley and Roger Mason, Jr. With less than a minute to go in the game, LaMarcus Aldridge hit a long jumper to put the Blazers up by three points. Two free throws by Tony Parker cut the lead to one and after getting a stop with less than ten seconds to go, the Spurs pushed the ball up the court and Mason fed Finley for the potential game-winning jumper.

The Blazers deserve a lot of credit for playing a very good game. After getting rolled in their first game of the season by the Los Angeles Lakers, Portland played much better in front of their home fans. With Greg Oden out with an injured foot, the Blazers relied on their dynamic duo of Aldridge and Brandon Roy, who both played exceptionally well.

Also impressive for the Blazers was Nicolas Batum, a player the Spurs reportedly targeted in the first round of the 2008 NBA Draft. In fact, some reports indicate that Batum was actually the preferred pick when the Spurs were picking at 26th overall. However, the Blazers made a move to acquire the 25th pick of the draft to snag the 19-year-old French born small forward. At 6-foot-8 with an never ending wingspan, Batum is extremely long for a small forward. He’s active defensively, a capable ballhandler, a good passer and seems to have a decent outside jumper. It looks like Portland landed a gem.

For the Spurs, this loss was a bitter pill to swallow after making such an inspired comeback. The good news is the Spurs repeatedly fought back and had a good shot to win it at the end.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
42 minutes, 27 points, ten rebounds, two assists
12-for-19 from the field, 3-for-4 at the line

Tim Duncan had another very good offensive game. He dominated in the paint with an array of post moves and other moves that relied simply on brute strength. Unlike the first game of the season, he only hit one perimeter shot the whole game. Offensively, Duncan looks exceptionally good, especially for this early in the season. His defense and rebounding, however, still need to catch up to his offense. He did end up with ten boards but he had an opportunity to grab another half dozen or so. Although, it’s tough to nitpick when Duncan is out there giving very good effort for 42 minutes without a lot of help in the frontcourt. Overall, I’m very happy with how Duncan has started the season. He looks fresh, energized and ready for a successful season.
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Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
39 minutes, 24 points, 11 assists, four turnovers
10-for-19 from the field, 4-for-4 at the line

Despite a few bad decisions here and there, Tony Parker played well. As his statistics indicate, he did a very good job of creating for himself and others. On shots outside of the paint, he connected on five of his seven attempts. That continued a trend that began in preseason in which Parker has looked very comfortable shooting the ball. His passing and his defense were also both impressive against Portland. Like Duncan, Parker has played more than well enough for the Spurs to win their last two games.
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Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
22 minutes, two rebounds, one assist
0-for-1 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

It’s not quite time to push the panic button but this is the second straight game that Bruce Bowen had a bad performance. His defense against Roy was decent but not to the level we expect from Bowen. Offensively, he hasn’t been able to get involved. As a result of his ineffective play, he once again saw more bench minutes than playing time. While it’s possible that Bowen has lost a step, I think the more likely scenario includes a combination of factors. First, with Manu Ginobili out, it’s easier for the opposition to stay at home and take him totally out of the offense. Defensively he seems out of rhythm, plus he’s not getting much assistance in terms of help defense at the rim. If he keeps up this level of play over the next couple of weeks, it’ll be time to be alarmed. Right now, it’s too early to draw a conclusion.
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Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
34 minutes, 16 points, four assists, two rebounds
5-for-11 from the field, 3-for-5 on three-pointers, 3-for-3 at the line

Michael Finley delivered a very nice performance against the Blazers. He was the third leading scorer and hit a number of big shots. Unfortunately, he didn’t hit the shot that mattered the most at the end of the game. On offense, Finley did a good job of taking and making long three-pointers to keep the Spurs in the ballgame. Defensively, he gave good effort, although the results were still lacking. He continually sags off his man and gives wide open jumper. While it’s partly by design since his lateral quickness doesn’t allow him to effectively defend against penetration, he’d be a bigger help on that end of the court if he would avoid sagging every time up the court. That said, any defensive shortcomings were negated by his offensive production in this particular contest.
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Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
12 minutes, five points, two rebounds
2-for-2 from the field, 1-for-1 on three-pointers

Matt Bonner started at center so he could defend against Aldridge. The Blazers exploited that matchup repeatedly, with mostly positive results. However, to Bonner’s credit, he did force Aldridge into tough shots a number of times. Bonner’s biggest mistakes in the game were picking up fouls in bunches. The Spurs were hurt by Bonner getting himself in foul trouble, especially considering they only had three active bigmen. Offensively, Bonner was much more poised than usual. He made a couple of good passes and showed much better shot selection. Overall, he wasn’t nearly as frazzled as he was in the opener.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
29 minutes, 14 points, four assists, two rebounds
6-for-7 from the field, 2-for-2 on three-pointers

Watching the Spurs fall to 0-2 isn’t exactly loads of fun. What is exciting, though, is seeing how well Roger Mason, Jr. is fitting into the Spurs system. He’s showing an extremely well-rounded game that will certainly help the Spurs greatly as the season progresses. Not only is he shooting the ball very well, the pace at which he plays is perfect for how the Spurs run their offense. He’s smart with the ball and already has formed good chemistry with Duncan when they run a two-man game. He came to the Spurs with a reputation of having poor shot selection but, if anything, he’s not shooting enough. Defensively, I also really like what he’s doing. He not only can defend out on the perimeter, he’s also tough down on the blocks and when fighting through screens. He still has areas where he can improve but Mason has played just about as well as anyone could have expected after two games.
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Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
20 minutes, two points, five rebounds
0-for-1 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line

Kurt Thomas again didn’t play too well. Offensively, he was practically invisible and even though he crashed the offensive glass repeatedly, he was unable to pull down even a single offensive rebound. On the defensive end, Thomas was nothing special. He pulled down a couple of tough rebounds but also lost one or two he should have corralled. Even though he’s entering his second season with the Spurs, it appears he’s still trying to figure out where and how he can help the team.
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Ime Udoka
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3501.jpg
19 minutes, six points, three rebounds
2-for-5 from the field, 2-for-4 on three-pointers

Ime Udoka wasn’t playing too well early on but really came alive in the fourth quarter. In addition to hitting two important three-pointers, his defense was also impressive. He got placed onto Aldridge when the Spurs went small and did a better job than any big had done against him. He fought him for room on the block and forced Aldridge to go out on the perimeter. I’m impressed with the calmness Udoka is playing with so far this season. Last year, Udoka would sometimes get too trigger happy offensively and would try too hard defensively. He’s doing a great job of not trying to do too much right now.
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Desmon Farmer
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/p-farmer2.jpg
13 minutes, five points, two turnovers
1-for-3 from the field, 1-for-3 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

In search of offense, Desmon Farmer got some action against Portland. For a player who made the team basically due to his fearlessness on the offensive end of the court, he sure was hesitant and unsure of himself. While that’s understandable for a player with such little NBA experience, it probably didn’t help his cause for a long-term spot on the roster. If he’s to have a role on the Spurs, it’s going to be as a consciousless gunner who comes out looking to fill it up. He didn’t do that this game, although he’ll likely have another shot to prove to the coaches he can in fact be instant offense of the bench.
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Jacque Vaughn
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3195.jpg
Nine minutes, two rebounds

Jacque Vaughn didn’t do much of anything – good or bad. Defensively, he pressured the ball well and on the other end he came down with an offensive rebound. That’s about the extent of the available Vaughn analysis.
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Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Pop obviously didn’t want the Spurs to drop to 0-2. He played Duncan and Parker a combined 81 minutes and he was pulling out all the stops coaching-wise. He did a good job of figuring out small ball would be effective and that lineup was instrumental in the Spurs getting back in the game. Whether the Spurs should have called a timeout at the end of the game is debatable, however I liked the look Finley got at the buzzer. It’s interesting to see how fast Pop has warmed up to Mason. Not only has he involved Mason in the offense already, he had him guarding Roy for a majority of money time. Even when there was a timeout and he could come back to Bowen for a stop, he kept Mason as his lead defensive perimeter player.
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Offense
The offense was actually really good for San Antonio. They shot nearly 56% from the field, knocked in 9-of-16 three-pointers and 14-of-15 from the line. They lost the game mostly due to having 14 fewer field goal attempts and nine fewer free throw attempts. The reason for the disparity can be traced back to the eight more offensive rebounds the Blazers pulled down and the eight more turnovers for the Spurs. When the Spurs actually had the ball, they did a fine job of putting it in the hole.

Defense
Defensively, the Spurs still weren’t where they need to be to win without Ginobili. The Blazers shot 46.3% from the field, which is at least a couple percentage points too high. Letting the Blazers get 13 offensive rebounds is unacceptable, as is forcing only six turnovers. Part of the problem right now for the Spurs is their lack of intimidation in the paint. They had no blocks against the Blazers and only three in the opening game.

Drive to Five
The Spurs are off until Tuesday when they take on the Dallas Mavericks at the AT&T Center. While it’s not a must-win situation, the Spurs could really use a victory to stop the bleeding. They haven’t played too horribly in the first two games but it’s time to put that elusive first W on the board.

[mystargtr34]

Good stuff, i noticed the same thing you pointed out about Udoka in the first game. Although its only been 2 games, i feel much more comfortable with him on the court now compared to last season. He's calm, relaxed and really looks like hes fitted in and found his role in the offense. He should continue to get better.

Even though they havent got much from Bruce, Kurt and Bonner, and nothing from Oberto, the Spurs could very easily be 2-0. The Grant Hill buzzer beater swung the momentum in the Suns game and the Brandon Roy shot both were pretty much the difference in the games. Its definately got a bit to do with luck, but they really gotta knuckle down on those last second plays, not just run by the man and throw a hand up hoping for a miss.

Also, it was great to see them fight back the way they did today, im not overly worried, once we get Fab back and hopefully a bit of an athleticism injection from Ian and George, things should be fine.

[Rynospursfan]

Good to see timvp's game thoughts back this year. I really enjoyed them last year. I watch every game on league pass but it is cool to see his observations and compare them with mine.

I went to the game last night, great game even though we lost. One thing that should be kept in mind is how rocking the Rose Garden was last night. This was the home opener for the Blazers. They even had Earth Wind and Fire playing a concert while they introduced the players.

The game was fun even though we lost, would have been a lot more fun had Finley hit that shot though. BTW, happy Halloween everyone. Lots of people dressed up at the game and walking around the east side of Portland tonight. This was the first time in a while I have not been sitting at home handing out candy to all the kids watching basketball on the tube. One of the first people we saw dressed up that caught my eye was Santa. He was looking at my wife and I saying Santa is watching. My wife said that Santa has to be a Spurs fan, she just wasn't buying it. I got a picture of this dude later, he told us we were going to get cole in our stockings. Clearly not the real Santa. Speaking of Santa a buddy of mine sent me a text during the game. He said "What's up with Pop's look. I just repleyed "that is Santa Pop to you"

Even though I only sprug for nosebleed tix I wanted to go down where the Spurs were shooting around and grab some pix. I started down the tunnel to the baseline where the Spurs were shooting around and this dude stops me. "He says hey! Spurs!" or something like that. There are always plenty of Spurs fans representing at the Blazer games when the Spurs are in town. I said hey to him as I too was dressed head to waist in Spurs gear as well. I shake the guys hand and he asks me, are you a Spurs fan. I motion to my shirt and hat like what the hell do you think man? He then tells me that he is Ime Udoka's brother. I said "oh yeah, you look just like him" and he did. He said "yeah kinda" I talked to him for a little bit longer and then went to grab a couple of pictures. I got down to the court and the usher was giving me crap so I had to move away a bit.

I met back up with my wife and we went to get some drinks. I got my $8 beer and we hit up the seats. The Blazer fans seemed a lot more cocky than I had seen in a while. Even with Oden hurt there was a feeling that they had confidence in their team. Rudy Fernadez was a big hit. I expected him to be but didn't know that it would happen this quick. At the beginning of the game and throughout it to some degree the offensive rebounds that Portland was getting was really pissing me off. The Spurs didn't look like they were being fundamental. Just box out your man and trust trust your teammate that they will pull down the board.

Anyways the blazer fans around us were pretty cool. Stewie from Family Guy and the Joker were sitting in front of us. Seen a bunch of Jokers today but this guy seemed to be the best one. I try to be classy and a true Spurs fan other than when Steve Blake is involved. I just think that guy sucks and has no business being a starting point guard in this league. Plus there is always at least one Blazer that I like to boo but much less now than the Jailblazer days. My wife says that booing isn't nice.

Batum was pretty impressive. That block on Duncan was huge. I think it energized him. I hope Hill comes back soon and shows me some stuff to forget how angry I was when the Rockets took him immediately before the Spurs picked.

I thought Mason looked really good. He will be a bright spot for the the Spurs this year. We do need Oberto back though. Hope his heart is doing well. Thomas is a good backup but I don't know that he has found his role on this team yet or at least hasn't had the opportunity to play it yet.

Timmy and Tony both looked really good again. Of course Tony got to play against Steve Blake most of the night so scoring shouldn't be a problem. What happened to Bruce at the end of the game? Pop needed to put him in the game and slow down Roy. Instead he chose to have Timmy trap. I guess I can't fault him too much though we got back into the game and had a shot to win it at the end.


It was cool to see Farmer play. Not sure what to think about him though. I kept wanting for the Spurs Bigs to go set a screen for him. His outside shot looks solid but I think he needs to get to the line and build some confidence by knocking down some free throws first.

Overall I think even sitting at 0-2 the Spurs still look strong. When we get our two Argentinians back they will be as good as any team in the league. The Blazers played a strong game tonight in front of a home opener crowd that had its back. If Pop can trust Mason a little earlier to put some points on the board then maybe this team wont have to rely on Timmy and Tony to score so much.

Just have to get ready for Dallas now, life is tough in the Western Conference. Now lets go win some games.

I took a bunch of pictures but seem to be technically challenged in getting them onto the internet due to their large size. Anyways here is a video they did during a timeout with Blaze the Blazer Mascot and our very own Coyote.

I can never remember how to post Youtube vids here so here is the link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mFpOkyza_M)

[PM5K]

Am I the only one waiting (not hoping) for Mason to come back down to earth?

Has anyone ever come into this system and played even half as good in their first two games?

[timvp]

Good stuff, Rynospursfan :tu

Thanks for the in-person perspective.

[polandprzem]

Spurs are lacking a bad mofo, as always.

Once again they lost at the end, once again Tim and Tony playing big amount of minutes, while for example LA or Boston rolling to decisive wins and letting they stars get as much breath as possible.
That gives a worry even if it's just begining of a season (dallas were 0-4 the year thay had the best record in the leauge).

What is noticable is total blocked shots by the spurs

zero

Tim did not blocked a single shot and was blocked 4 times already this season.

And rebounding aspect - 31 rebs is really low. (phily grabbed 61 last night)


Bowen - he is nobody on offense, now I hear that his D came down, if that will continue next year Bowen will be a role player of the bench.

The only, and I mean the only bright sopt is Mason, but still it gives spurs nothing as they can't take adventage of it.

[Allanon]

Overall, it was an entertaining game to watch as it was close throughout.

The Dallas game is a bit worrisome as they have some bleeding to stop as well.

Anybody know if Oberto will be back for the Dallas game?

[cool hand]

bruce may be done.

[mystargtr34]

Overall, it was an entertaining game to watch as it was close throughout.

The Dallas game is a bit worrisome as they have some bleeding to stop as well.

Anybody know if Oberto will be back for the Dallas game?

No definate but they said he would miss the first 2 games only so i would assume so. Either way were gonna get torched by Dirk, but Fab will at least limit some of the damage, Dirk might have gone for a 100 if Thomas is forced to defend him.

[Spurs Brazil]

The biggest problem in the 2 games were the lack of interior D.

Oberto may be back on Tuesday and think it'll help because it's impossible to play worst than Thomas now.

I hope when Oberto comeback Bonner is the 1st big of the bench and Thomas play less minutes until he gets in shape

[diego]

The biggest problem in the 2 games were the lack of interior D.

Oberto may be back on Tuesday and think it'll help because it's impossible to play worst than Thomas now.

I hope when Oberto comeback Bonner is the 1st big of the bench and Thomas play less minutes until he gets in shape

especially the rebounding! i'm worried about KT and bonner rebounding so poorly right now. several times i felt bad for duncan, he was alone out there having to do everything only for his teammates to give up the boards.

but mostly i wanted to say, how about TP! his shot has been great and he's made some excellent passes, i think he is STILL improving. Tony setting up Tim inside should be the first option every time down (more points in the paint= less 3's)

[raspsa]

The most frustrating thing for me was seeing the Spurs getting outhustled on their defensive board. Any idea when Tolliver will rejoin the team? He might have provided some badly needed rebounding.

[Spurs Brazil]

The most frustrating thing for me was seeing the Spurs getting outhustled on their defensive board. Any idea when Tolliver will rejoin the team? He might have provided some badly needed rebounding.

I think he'll be ready to go on tuesday

[SenorSpur]

Good to see timvp's game thoughts back this year. I really enjoyed them last year. I watch every game on league pass but it is cool to see his observations and compare them with mine.

Same here. These recaps are a must read and very much appreciated.

Batum was pretty impressive. That block on Duncan was huge. I think it energized him. I hope Hill comes back soon and shows me some stuff to forget how angry I was when the Rockets took him immediately before the Spurs picked.

For me watching this kid Batum was indeed a bitter sweet experience. One on hand, I enjoyed getting an extended look at him in real game action and not against summer league scrubs. He reminds me a bit of Tayshaun Prince, with his length and defensive prowess. On the other hand, it was such a "kick to the groin" knowing the Spurs were literally one pick away from having him on the roster. :nutkick:

He is exactly what our SF position has been lacking. It's a goddamn shame that he's not here and I curse both the Rockets and Blazers for their maneuver. Two new teams have just been added to my personal shit list.

[Spurs Brazil]

On the other hand, it was such a "kick to the groin" knowing the Spurs were literally one pick away from having him on the roster. He is exactly what our SF position has been lacking.

I don't even want to think about it. The guy is only 19 and would be perfect in our system.

[Bender]

I couldn't believe all the ORs the blazers were getting.

First time I've seen Farmer... couldn't watch any preseason games.

Mason seems a great pickup. Someone posted above that he will "come back to earth..." But it's not like he's playing like a superstar now, he's just playing a good all-around game.

a few times, the commentators said something like "it's Parker & Duncan against the Blazers"

10 minutes to go, I considered turning the game off and spending some time with the wife. But next thing I knew, spurs were making a push and the game went to the wire... so the wife lost and I stayed to end.

I'm not a huge fan of oberto, but I am more than ready for him to come back.

Vaughn is the perfect 3rd string PG, but it sure would be nice to have more of a scorer for a 2nd PG. I've never seen Hill play either since I couldn't watch any SL or preseason games. I wonder when Hill can start playing...

Ryno - thanks, good read. timvp - thanks again for the game recaps.

[Spurs Brazil]

Defense
Defensively, the Spurs still weren’t where they need to be to win without Ginobili. The Blazers shot 46.3% from the field, which is at least a couple percentage points too high. Letting the Blazers get 13 offensive rebounds is unacceptable, as is forcing only six turnovers. Part of the problem right now for the Spurs is their lack of intimidation in the paint. They had no blocks against the Blazers and only three in the opening game.

Do you think Pop will give Ian a chance to show what he can do?
I think he can help improve our interior D but I don't know if Pop will play him, especially with the time he's out.

[picnroll]

Bruce Bowen

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
22 minutes, two rebounds, one assist
0-for-1 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

It’s not quite time to push the panic button but this is the second straight game that Bruce Bowen had a bad performance. His defense against Roy was decent but not to the level we expect from Bowen.

Bowen is sure getting a gold ticket pass. Roy was blowing by him down the middle tearing the Spurs D apart like Bruce was a week old cadaver. He was doing a Finley impersonation trying to stay in front of Roy.

[benefactor]

Thanks for the thoughts timvp. Once again, this is another loss that you come away knowing that it would have been different if we actually had Oberto. Thomas has struggled so far but he missed a lot of training camp, so he might need a little more time to find his rhythm. Mason again looked great which means Finleys extended minutes days are numbered. Finley still looks like he can contribute, but with Mason's great play on both sides of the ball he will be better served coming off the bench and hitting a few shots in situations that play to his strengths...like the set plays they run for him occasionally.

I have two big worries right now. Rebounding and Bowen. The rebounding might improve some when Tolliver and Oberto get back, but we are still lacking big time in the physicality department. Hopefully we can make a move at some point to bring in another PF/C to help shore up what looks to be a rather soft front line. In regards to Bowen...I am also not quite ready to hit the panic button. But make no mistake, we cannot afford for him to have a significant drop off this season if we have any plans on being a title contender. His perimeter defense has been key in the playoffs at some point almost every year that we have won it all. I hope we are not still having this conversation in December.

[SenorSpur]

One thing about older players, when they start to decline, it seemingly happens overnight. We've got 80 games to go, but Bruce looks as though he's really declined. However, if anyone paid attention to the Fakers series, the evidence was there then too. We were all focused on the Manu injury and it's impact on the series, meanwhile Kobe, Vujacic and others were running circles around our perimeter defenders - Bowen being the biggest surprise.

How Pop could've honestly expected to continue gambling on Bowen to maintain his usual level of defensive excellence without showing some dropoff, season after season is beyond me. Especially given Bowen's age and the fact that he routinely has to guard the opposition's best player and best athlete. Compare that to the fact there is no younger, defensive-minded, swingman (and I do not count Udoka), waiting in the wings, it's short-sighted and inexcusable.

[Mr. Body]

Batum was tailor-made to be a Spur. He is not.

[SenorSpur]

Thanks for the thoughts timvp. Once again, this is another loss that you come away knowing that it would have been different if we actually had Oberto.
I disagree. Sure we could've used Oberto's size as another body on the frontline, along with his six fouls, but Oberto isn't exactly the kind of player who routinely has a direct effect on the game. His skill set is severely limited in several areas. Areas in which the Spurs are sorely lacking.


I have two big worries right now. Rebounding and Bowen. The rebounding might improve some when Tolliver and Oberto get back, but we are still lacking big time in the physicality department. Hopefully we can make a move at some point to bring in another PF/C to help shore up what looks to be a rather soft front line. In regards to Bowen...I am also not quite ready to hit the panic button. But make no mistake, we cannot afford for him to have a significant drop off this season if we have any plans on being a title contender. His perimeter defense has been key in the playoffs at some point almost every year that we have won it all. I hope we are not still having this conversation in December.

Agreed on both points.

With regard to the frontline, the lack of rebounding and physicality was obvious in the playoffs, as the Hornets man-handled the Spurs on the glass and in virtually every other aspect of the series - except experience. Oberto and KT simply do not provide enough help on the boards, protecting the rim or defending the low post area to qualify as solid running mates for Tim. If Tim doesn't get all these things done, it simply doesn't happen.

As for Bowen, and I will say this again, we saw the first signs of the Bowen decline during the WCF versus the Fakers. In several sequences, Kobe ran around him as though he was standing still. Sure Kobe normally does that to everyone - everyone except Bowen. Without Bowen at the top of his game defensively, and his sometimes clutch 3's from the corner, the Spurs have no shot of making a deep playoff run, much less winning a title.

It's sad that we have to start the season and witness what was, in my mind, already evident when last season ended. The Spurs needed a bigger boost from their complimentary players. I'm pleased that Pop sought to address the backcourt depth, as Mason and Hill look like keepers. Time will tell if Ian is worthy of being a rotation player. However, while he was chasing PGs, Pop should've paid more attention to the backup SF & backup C positions too.

[romad_20]

He is exactly what our SF position has been lacking. It's a goddamn shame that he's not here and I curse both the Rockets and Blazers for their maneuver. Two new teams have just been added to my personal shit list.

Agreed. He looked great.

The team just needs time. A lot of injuries and new pieces and nothing but time is going to help get this team playing as a unit. I think Mason is going to be big once Manu comes back. He's going to start taking Finely's minutes, I hope.

I still hope we make a trade. Not that there is much out there, but we have got to get someone longer and more athletic at the 3. How many years have we been saying this?

[SenorSpur]

Agreed. He looked great.

The team just needs time. A lot of injuries and new pieces and nothing but time is going to help get this team playing as a unit. I think Mason is going to be big once Manu comes back. He's going to start taking Finely's minutes, I hope.

I still hope we make a trade. Not that there is much out there, but we have got to get someone longer and more athletic at the 3. How many years have we been saying this?

If the clock started ticking when SJax left the building, that would be five years ago.

[manufor3]

mason, why didn't you take the shot!!!

[Indazone]

Bowen and Kurt Thomas taking up 40 min of game play and scoring a grand total of 2 pts between them did not help you guys either.

[Mr. Body]

I still hope we make a trade. Not that there is much out there, but we have got to get someone longer and more athletic at the 3. How many years have we been saying this?

Enough to know it won't happen. We have nothing to trade, and unfortunately there are young SF talents springing up in the league everywhere, even a guy like Wilson Chandler.

[SenorSpur]

Enough to know it won't happen. We have nothing to trade, and unfortunately there are young SF talents springing up in the league everywhere, even a guy like Wilson Chandler.

A point which makes Pop's negligence of this position even more inexcusable.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The thing that worries me about the Dallas game is that the Mavericks have gone back to run and gunning it. If the Spurs transition D doesn't improve we will quickly see an 0-3 hole.

However, this team has shown some promising signs and any game against Dallas is always a good game.

[The Truth #6]

Maggette turned us down. Houston and Portland worked together to steal Batum from us. There has been some effort to address the situation. I can't blame the FO completely. As always people don't want to come here unless they have something to prove. And when we do target people, other teams zero in on it. Pritchard probably didn't need to workout Batum to roll the dice on him. He knew Pop enough to trust our judgement. Our success can work against us.

However, given the situation, I would have kept Gist this season instead of sending him off unprotected. He was long, athletic, and had a nose for the ball that would help on defense and rebounds. Unfortunately, we're stuck (still) in finding someone to fit into the Robert Horry plaster-caster we created, why I'll never know. If we keep chasing ghosts, we'll become ghosts.

The positive so far is that Mason looks very, very capable and we still haven't seen Ian or Hill, both of whom are young and athletic and show promise. Hill looked solid in preseason in my opinion. Hill, though a point guard, seems to be an excellent rebounder. It's not ideal or probably wise to hope for rebounds out of your backup point guard but at this point we're going to have to take whatever we can get.

Right now we're a finesse team that is going to have to rely on smarts and execution to win at times. With better ball movement, like what we saw in the 4th quarter, our bench should get more involved. Though in reality, it's our defense that's lacking.

[ploto]

The trick: Bowen and Thomas

The treat: Mason

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I know it's early, but Bowen looks done. He looked like he had the lateral aptitude of Finley last night, and I suspect it's why Mason got so much run on Roy late.

This could be the year that father time finally takes down Bruce, and with our criminal lack of talent at the 3, that could be the Achilles heel for this team. Too bad no one saw the problems at the 3 spot coming for the last five years running :rolleyes

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Maggette turned us down. Houston and Portland worked together to steal Batum from us. There has been some effort to address the situation. I can't blame the FO completely. As always people don't want to come here unless they have something to prove. And when we do target people, other teams zero in on it. Pritchard probably didn't need to workout Batum to roll the dice on him. He knew Pop enough to trust our judgement. Our success can work against us.

However, given the situation, I would have kept Gist this season instead of sending him off unprotected. He was long, athletic, and had a nose for the ball that would help on defense and rebounds. Unfortunately, we're stuck (still) in finding someone to fit into the Robert Horry plaster-caster we created, why I'll never know. If we keep chasing ghosts, we'll become ghosts.

The positive so far is that Mason looks very, very capable and we still haven't seen Ian or Hill, both of whom are young and athletic and show promise. Hill looked solid in preseason in my opinion. Hill, though a point guard, seems to be an excellent rebounder. It's not ideal or probably wise to hope for rebounds out of your backup point guard but at this point we're going to have to take whatever we can get.

Right now we're a finesse team that is going to have to rely on smarts and execution to win at times. With better ball movement, like what we saw in the 4th quarter, our bench should get more involved. Though in reality, it's our defense that's lacking.

Maggette didn't turn us down. He took the money.

Our pathetic depth at three is on Pop and R.C. They've had five years to address the situation, but for some reason thought Bowen was going to be able to play forever.

There's just no excuse for the situation - damn near every other team in the league has a serviceable SF, while our front office continues to think the solution there is for us to trot out a 900 year old defensive specialist.

It's suicidal.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oh, and one more thing while we're talking about the SF spot... we could still have Jackson on this squad if our front office wasn't so fucking cheap. AND they let him walk without getting anything back in return.

:pctoss

[SenorSpur]

Maggette didn't turn us down. He took the money.

Our pathetic depth at three is on Pop and R.C. They've had five years to address the situation, but for some reason thought Bowen was going to be able to play forever.

There's just no excuse for the situation - damn near every other team in the league has a serviceable SF, while our front office continues to think the solution there is for us to trot out a 900 year old defensive specialist.

It's suicidal.


Amen brother. Finally someone who's echo's my sentiments. :tu

I don't see how anyone could give R.C. and Pop a pass on this. They've had more than enough time to address the deficiency at this position. Instead they chose to ignore it. It is indeed suicidal, especially when considering that the majority of the NBA's best athletes play either the SF/SG position.

The Bowen situation exposes a flaw in the FO's poor planning and decision-making. Same is true for the backup C/PF position. Tim is carrying an extremely heavy load on both ends of the court, with little to no help. They have done a very poor job of surrounding Tim with capable complimentary frontline talent that can help share his offensive and defensive load. Until Ian can prove himself and become part of the rotation, the jury is still out on him.

I'm sure the Spurs want to remain in contention as long as possible. In order to reload, you must have some bullets available at the ready. Other than the backup PG position, the Spurs do not. The FO is doing nothing more than aiding the competition by repeatedly igorning the deficiencies at some of the backup positions.

[DPG21920]

The only thing that worries me is playing Timmy so long. I am sure Pop won't play him 40 minutes a night every night.

[Darkwaters]

Mason is quickly becoming one of my favorite Spurs. And Udoka has been my boy for a while. I really liked his play late yesterday. When hes calm and realizes he doesn't need to jack up bad shots to help the team he is a great player to have. And his versatility is paying dividends already.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The only thing that worries me is playing Timmy so long. I am sure Pop won't play him 40 minutes a night every night.

Well I'm sure that when Tolliver comes back that will help somewhat, but we're still woefully thin up front. The lack of depth at the 3-4-5 is criminal for a front office that prides itself on shrewd planning.

[mexicanjunior]

Good game thoughts, I always enjoy reading them.

If Duncan and Parker are forced to keep up this minutes pace until Manu gets back, I think Duncan will be fried by the 3/4 mark of the season. Can't expect a 32 year old big man, pretty much manning the paint by himself, to keep up this kind of burn. Oberto and Tolliver will help when they return but I think they will still have to keep Duncan out there for his scoring, since neither of them can carry that kind of load to keep the Spurs in the game.

I also agree with alot of the sentiment regarding Bowen in this thread, he just doesn't look like he can stay in front of quick guys with good handles anymore. If he isn't contributing on the defensive side of the ball, and not hitting open corner 3's, there really isn't much reason to have him on the court. Tis a sad time to see him start looking his age...

[DPG21920]

Well I'm sure that when Tolliver comes back that will help somewhat, but we're still woefully thin up front. The lack of depth at the 3-4-5 is criminal for a front office that prides itself on shrewd planning.

Ya, having Tolliver and Oberto will help address this; so will Ian. But when you look at that, even though it adds depth with regards to numbers, it leaves a lot of ???. Hopefully Tim, KT, Oberto and Bonner/Ian/Tolliver can do better than Tim, KT, Oberto, Horry did last year. Which I think they can, especially since Tim is playing so well.

[Manufan909]

Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
29 minutes, 14 points, four assists, two rebounds
6-for-7 from the field, 2-for-2 on three-pointers

Watching the Spurs fall to 0-2 isn’t exactly loads of fun. What is exciting, though, is seeing how well Roger Mason, Jr. is fitting into the Spurs system. He’s showing an extremely well-rounded game that will certainly help the Spurs greatly as the season progresses. Not only is he shooting the ball very well, the pace at which he plays is perfect for how the Spurs run their offense. He’s smart with the ball and already has formed good chemistry with Duncan when they run a two-man game. He came to the Spurs with a reputation of having poor shot selection but, if anything, he’s not shooting enough. Defensively, I also really like what he’s doing. He not only can defend out on the perimeter, he’s also tough down on the blocks and when fighting through screens. He still has areas where he can improve but Mason has played just about as well as anyone could have expected after two games.
+1

Within seconds of me bitching about Mason not taking any shots, he swished a j that he created for himself(he might've come off a screen, I can't remember), but I definitely want him shooting more. And I know he's averaging 30 minutes a game, but I want him in even more. And I hope Farmer can start eating away at Finley's minutes, the sooner the better. When Finley, and Vaughn are beat out of the rotation is when the Spurs truly become a better team. Desmon and Hill will have to play like gods for that to happen, though.

EDIT: And if KT doesn't become 5 times the player he's been so far, Ian will ony have to be mediocre to take his spot.

[The Truth #6]

+1

Within seconds of me bitching about Mason not taking any shots, he swished a j that he created for himself(he might've come off a screen, I can't remember), but I definitely want him shooting more. And I know he's averaging 30 minutes a game, but I want him in even more. And I hope Farmer can start eating away at Finley's minutes, the sooner the better. When Finley, and Vaughn are beat out of the rotation is when the Spurs truly become a better team. Desmon and Hill will have to play like gods for that to happen, though.

EDIT: And if KT doesn't become 5 times the player he's been so far, Ian will ony have to be mediocre to take his spot.

I think Hill's thumb must be hurting. I get the sense Pop loves Hill and will play him soon enough.

I also want to see Farmer get a chance, and as much as I've been against Finley, it would be lying if I didn't admit that he's been playing better than expected the last two games. He looks quicker than last year and has been hitting shots. I'm not saying he's good but he's been better. I think Farmer looked a bit lost last night out there. With time he hopefully will get a sense of the System, but not let it overwhelm him. He needs to continue to look for his shot, otherwise he isn't doing himself or the team any good.

[Manufan909]

True, he really needs to get comfortable. And I was suprised to see Mason driving and finishing, that doubled the active players that can do that. I bet Farmer can too, but he has to show he can when it counts. It was nice to see in preseason, but I want to see it now.

I'll admit Finley has been looking decent, I'd switch him out for being the 11th man with Bruce if there was someone besides Ime to take his place. I'd love to see a lineup of Tony, Mason, Tolliver, Fab, and Tim, just to see if Tolliver could be a big small forward(oxymoron, I know). It would be nice to find out Tolliver has the kind of versatility.

[Manufan909]

I think Hill's thumb must be hurting. I get the sense Pop loves Hill and will play him soon enough.

I also want to see Farmer get a chance, and as much as I've been against Finley, it would be lying if I didn't admit that he's been playing better than expected the last two games. He looks quicker than last year and has been hitting shots. I'm not saying he's good but he's been better. I think Farmer looked a bit lost last night out there. With time he hopefully will get a sense of the System, but not let it overwhelm him. He needs to continue to look for his shot, otherwise he isn't doing himself or the team any good.

Pop needs to love Ian, Hill, and Mason, and hate Finley, Bruce and KT. How bad will the old timers have to play for Pop to realize they shouldn't be playing?

Fuck!!! I did it again. MY rage towards losing Barry hopped onto Fin, I keep mentioning him in concert with KT and Bruce, even though he's easily been the 4th best player on the team so far, behind Timmy, Tony, and Mase. KT and Bruce are fighting for the 10th best spot. Shit, and the Spurs only have had 10 so far!!! I'm assuming they're up to a full roster now, with at least 2 of Fab, Tolliver, or Hill being back now. I'm curious who will be the odd man out, since Ian and Manu are out cuz of healing ankles. Hope it's Vaughn, I want to see me some Hill!!!

[The Truth #6]

I hear you. But Bruce and KT really haven't been playing that much. I think Pop realizes their lack of production in the last few games and has been rewarding Mason for his good work. In fact, one could almost hear the pep talk he must have given Mason at half time as he came out a wholly different player.

It would be unfair to kick Bowen to the curb immediately. He has been huge for us. He deserves the benefit of the doubt, and like I said Pop is pulling him the last two games once it's clear he isn't producing.

I think Pop might be hard on Ian but that's just a guess. We'll see.

[Indazone]

Bowen should be coming off the bench as a shutdown defender while you need a better SF with some offensive skills. Had you gotten Artest instead of us, I would have said the Spurs would be the hands on favorite to win it all.

[DPG21920]

I am happy with the way the Spurs are playing overall. Good news is that Tim and Tony are combining for 50+ points. Bad news is that we are still losing. Given, we played tough teams, but it would be nice to have a win with that production. If the Spurs can play just like they did, get Oberto and Hill back, I think we will win much more than we will lose.

[Indazone]

You had nearly zero production from the combined Thomas/Bowen duo. You've got to have some better scoring from that SF position.

[objective]

Oh, and one more thing while we're talking about the SF spot... we could still have Jackson on this squad if our front office wasn't so fucking cheap. AND they let him walk without getting anything back in return.

:pctoss

how can the front office be called cheap?

They gave Matt Bonner the same money they offered to Stephen Jackson. When you offer an out-of-rotation end of bench never accomplished anything player like Matt Bonner the same money offered to a starter who nailed clutch shots in WCF and Finals clinching 4th quarters, that's some open-wallet policy.

[objective]

It's not just Bowen maybe showing his age, but Kurt Thomas too. He's wasn't the player he was three years ago even last year, and now he sure looks worse. Maybe it's still the lingering camp injury, but he's 36 and hasn't been an iron man the 3 seasons prior to this.

The bad news is the Spurs have all these same guys who aren't helping Duncan and Parker too much all locked up through next season. KT. Bonner. Finley. Oberto. And if the wheels really ever do fall off, Bowen. And people who think Oberto is some missing link to success I believe are mistaken. He'll be 34 by the playoffs and he's not some great productive player when healthy anyway. Doesn't matter if he starts or KT starts you still will have one of the worst starting centers in the league.

[polandprzem]

private message

[timvp]

Bowen is sure getting a gold ticket pass.


second straight game that Bruce Bowen had a bad performanceI'm not sure what designation below "bad" you want for Bowen . . .


Roy was blowing by him down the middle tearing the Spurs D apart like Bruce was a week old cadaver. He was doing a Finley impersonation trying to stay in front of Roy.The two times Roy got middle on Bowen, I think he traveled. But yeah, Bowen hasn't looked good at all to start the season. It's too early to blame it all on age, though. Bowen's problem so far is he's been out of position on defense. It's like his head isn't all the way in the game.

I'd be more worried he had lost a step and is done if players were dancing on him or he wasn't able to get around picks anymore. But right now, he keeps on just getting confused and isn't in the right spot.

If Bowen's struggles in the first two games are due to falling off the age cliff, the season is already over . . .

[timvp]

It's not just Bowen maybe showing his age, but Kurt Thomas too. He's wasn't the player he was three years ago even last year, and now he sure looks worse. Maybe it's still the lingering camp injury, but he's 36 and hasn't been an iron man the 3 seasons prior to this.Yeah, Thomas is the player to actively be worrying about. He's playing about as good of defense as Bonner is right now -- which tells you how far he's fallen. He's also slower and he's gotten outrebounded by guards and small forwards so far in the season.

It's gotten to the point that it's going to be difficult to play Thomas together with Duncan. That combo just makes the team too slow. Thomas has a role as Duncan's backup but that's about it if he can't find some mobility and a couple inches of vertical jump.

Right this second, $8M and a first round draft pick for Thomas doesn't look like the greatest of moves.


The bad news is the Spurs have all these same guys who aren't helping Duncan and Parker too much all locked up through next season. KT. Bonner. Finley. Oberto. And if the wheels really ever do fall off, Bowen. And people who think Oberto is some missing link to success I believe are mistaken. He'll be 34 by the playoffs and he's not some great productive player when healthy anyway. Doesn't matter if he starts or KT starts you still will have one of the worst starting centers in the league.


http://spurstalk.com/the-savior.jpg

:wakeup

[Manufan909]

Just curious, who's face was photoshopped into Jesus?

[Allanon]

A point which makes Pop's negligence of this position even more inexcusable.

Spurs passed over Darrell Arthur to get Hill.

Arthur's the perfect size for a long 3.

Arthur's got 25 rebounds, 11 points, 4 blocks 3 steals in his 2 games. Grizz just beat the Magic yesterday.

[mystargtr34]

Spurs passed over Darrell Arthur to get Hill.

Arthur's the perfect size for a long 3.

Arthur's got 25 rebounds, 11 points, 4 blocks 3 steals in his 2 games. Grizz just beat the Magic yesterday.

He has not outside game, until he can put the ball on the floor AND develop a jumper, he wont have much success.

[mystargtr34]

At the three that is

[Allanon]

Yah, Arthur's not much of an offensive player in the half court. But in transition, he'd look good running the wing with Tony instead of Bowen.

But his main asset would be defense and rebounds. Spurs wouldn't get killed by athletic long 3's any more (Batum + Outlaw scored 23 points). Nor would they get outrebounded 37-31 like last night.

[picnroll]

I'm not sure what designation below "bad" you want for Bowen . . .
. . .




... His defense against Roy was decent but not to the level we expect from Bowen. ....

There's the golden pass.

What do you define as "decent"? Upper 10%? Upper 25%? Mid-range of an NBA player? Calling Bowen's defense pedestrian for an NBA player would be accurate. Is decent a guy who jumps three feet at every jab step to compensate? Who gets beat on curls even when he isn't getting picked?

[timvp]

He had some possessions against Roy where he denied him the ball. And he wasn't burned every single time, as you are making it out to be.

His defense was bad based on Bowen level defense. For your average NBA player, it was still halfway decent. To compare Bowen's defense to Finley's defense is still laughable even if Bowen played 25% worse than he did.

[SenorSpur]

Pop needs to love Ian, Hill, and Mason, and hate Finley, Bruce and KT. How bad will the old timers have to play for Pop to realize they shouldn't be playing?


Agree. The only sacred cows on this team are the Big Three. Everybody else should have to earn their time based on their performance. Despite the minor injection of some youth, this is still a very old team. Finley, KT and Bowen are really giving diminished returns to start the season. And to think, they comprise 2 starters and 1 major rotation player. Unbelievable the Pop would continuously gamble on players with declining skills.

Message to Pop: There are some young players that can play too. You saw that last night versus Portland.

[The Truth #6]

Again, I would say Bowen and KT ARE getting PT based on their performance because Pop has hardly played them, especially considering how much we need defense from Bowen and rebounding from KT. Pop has gone with Ime and Mason to close out the games.

I agree that the infatuation with Finley is probably still there but he's made a majority of his shots so far so to be fair we can't really demand to bench him until he goes into a shooting slump, which, I admit can always happen at any moment with him, and when it does then will be the time to give more minutes to Farmer.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Good and Bad, I guess.

I saw the game the same way TimVP saw it.

I was surprised at how many points we were able to score. Tony and Tim played great, at least on offense and were productive.

Until late in the game, it seemed like Tim and Tony were the only ones who were able to score or doing anything on the offensive end.

But what killed us is our lack of defensive rebounding. Kurt Thomas seemed useless out there. Bonner wasn't much better.

Defense isn't complete until you secure the defensive rebound. Due to limited bigs and the slowness of KT, we couldn't play two bigs together very often and we got killed on the boards partly as a result. Tim and 4 smalls.

In the first half, the fears about who else would score for us besides Tim and Tony were as daunting as originally thought to be, but they were joined by poor defensive rebounding.

As the game wore on, however, Mason, Finley and Udoka hit some big shots and we were able to get back into the game.

We can be encouraged by Mason's performance. He looks like he could be a real contributor to the team. Also, Finley's offense was adequate. So, with Hill back and Oberto back, our offense might be adequate. not very good. but mediocre at least.

However, going forward, we have some major issues with Tim's minutes. It is just like the bad old days when Tim sitting down meant we were going to lose 10 points in our margin. Tim can't play 40 minutes a game. If he does, he will be worn out by March or April. Plus, he will become less effective during the minutes that he does play. We probably won't make the playoffs, but if we did, he would not be effective at that time either.

We are in desperate need of a better rebounding big. If we allow that many second shot attempts, we will lose most of our games. Maybe Oberto will help some in that regard, but how much?

Third, lack of contribution from various players:

Bowen isn't a great offensive contributor. So, if he isn't a lock-down defender, then he isn't helping our team. Plus, we need points now. So, if he has lost a step or his defense has diminished, his minutes will need to be reduced too. It is too early to say, but given that points are at a premium, I would begin with the presumption that Bruce needs to play less than 20 minutes a game unless new evidence demonstrates that he is playing such good defense that it helps our team for him to play more minutes presents itself.

Bonner is not going to be very productive offensively or defensively, nor is he is a great rebounder. He can hit a wide open set 3. That is the only thing he can do. And very few points per game. When points are at a premium, his value is limited.

Finley: Michael did an adequate job scoring and shot an adequate percentage last game. We need double-digit scoring from him since Manu is gone. 11 points barely qualifies and he did shoot below 50%; however, he also shot 60% from the 3 point line which is outstanding. It would help a lot if he could give us 14 points a game until Manu is back. We desperately need his offense. Finley has had up and downs with the Spurs. We need an up year from him this year with Manu out.

Thomas: Thomas was at one time a double double guy and a solid defender. Until Oberto returns or Mahimni recovers, Thomas will be Tim's back-up. He has to defensive rebound and help protect the paint during that time. So far, he hasn't done it. He hasn't given us anything.

Farmer: Didn't do much last game. His role is to score in order to make up for Manu's absence. So, he needs to put the ball in the basket for us because we will need the points.

Vaughan: can't expect him to put a lot of points on the board, but still we will need points from everybody.

When Hill, Mahinmi, Oberto, and Tolliver return to the line-up, they will also need to be productive.

I just think that there might be too many unproductive offensive players on our team when we need to replace the scoring of one of our top 3 players.
I don't know if we will be able to keep up this kind of scoring through out the regular season until Manu gets back.

When everybody but Manu is back, I hope that we get production out of:

1. Tim Duncan 24 ppg, 10 reb
2. Tony Parker 24 ppg, 8 assists, 4 reb
3. Roger Mason 14 ppg, 4 reb
4. Michael Finley 14 ppg, 3 reb
5. Ime Udoka 7 ppg 3 reb
6. Oberto 7 ppg 4 reb
7. Ian Mahinmi 7 ppg 7 reb
8. Hill 7 ppg 3 assists
9. Farmer 4 ppg
10. Bonner 4 ppg 2 reb
11. Thomas 2 ppg 1 reb
12. Bowen 1 ppg 1 reb
13. Tolliver 1 ppg 1 reb
14. Vaughan 1 ppg 1 assist

Roger replaces Manu (in the line-up), Ime replaces Bruce (in the line-up), we go small so Michael is in and we get scoring, and Tim is the lone big [this is option 1 and we are small- similar to against the Trailblazers].

Or Tim and Oberto are in together (instead of Tim and Micheal - so we are not going small, we are normal) [option 2 - when everyone is healthy except Manu]. Then, Kurt and Mahinimi sub in for Tim or Oberto (respectively, Kurt subs in for either Tim or Oberto, when Tim or Oberto returns, then Mahinmi subs in for the other). Hill subs in for Tony Parker. Either Tony or Tim is in at all times. Roger is is the starting line up still. Michael starts. Udoka subs in for Michael Finley off the bench.

[Mr. Body]

What burns me up is we blew a first round draft pick on Kurt Thomas. It burned me up at the time, burns me up now. I know we've been absolute shite at picking in the draft, but there's practically no other way to get talent on this team next summer.

[Fingaroll44]

Message to Pop: There are some young players that can play too. You saw that last night versus Portland.

Manu is hurt, Hill is hurt, Ian is hurt, Tolliver had a death in the family and Farmer played. I dont understand the complaints when all our young guys are hurt or having misfortune right now. Patience is a truly a virtue. And by the way Farmer got trapped on the baseline and had a costly turnover that could've been the difference in the game.

[SenorSpur]

What burns me up is we blew a first round draft pick on Kurt Thomas. It burned me up at the time, burns me up now. I know we've been absolute shite at picking in the draft, but there's practically no other way to get talent on this team next summer.

Bingo! :tu

[Manufan909]

Good and Bad, I guess.

I saw the game the same way TimVP saw it.

I was surprised at how many points we were able to score. Tony and Tim played great, at least on offense and were productive.

Until late in the game, it seemed like Tim and Tony were the only ones who were able to score or doing anything on the offensive end.

But what killed us is our lack of defensive rebounding. Kurt Thomas seemed useless out there. Bonner wasn't much better.

Defense isn't complete until you secure the defensive rebound. Due to limited bigs and the slowness of KT, we couldn't play two bigs together very often and we got killed on the boards partly as a result. Tim and 4 smalls.

In the first half, the fears about who else would score for us besides Tim and Tony were as daunting as originally thought to be, but they were joined by poor defensive rebounding.

As the game wore on, however, Mason, Finley and Udoka hit some big shots and we were able to get back into the game.

We can be encouraged by Mason's performance. He looks like he could be a real contributor to the team. Also, Finley's offense was adequate. So, with Hill back and Oberto back, our offense might be adequate. not very good. but mediocre at least.

However, going forward, we have some major issues with Tim's minutes. It is just like the bad old days when Tim sitting down meant we were going to lose 10 points in our margin. Tim can't play 40 minutes a game. If he does, he will be worn out by March or April. Plus, he will become less effective during the minutes that he does play. We probably won't make the playoffs, but if we did, he would not be effective at that time either.

We are in desperate need of a better rebounding big. If we allow that many second shot attempts, we will lose most of our games. Maybe Oberto will help some in that regard, but how much?

Third, lack of contribution from various players:

Bowen isn't a great offensive contributor. So, if he isn't a lock-down defender, then he isn't helping our team. Plus, we need points now. So, if he has lost a step or his defense has diminished, his minutes will need to be reduced too. It is too early to say, but given that points are at a premium, I would begin with the presumption that Bruce needs to play less than 20 minutes a game unless new evidence demonstrates that he is playing such good defense that it helps our team for him to play more minutes presents itself.

Bonner is not going to be very productive offensively or defensively, nor is he is a great rebounder. He can hit a wide open set 3. That is the only thing he can do. And very few points per game. When points are at a premium, his value is limited.

Finley: Michael did an adequate job scoring and shot an adequate percentage last game. We need double-digit scoring from him since Manu is gone. 11 points barely qualifies and he did shoot below 50%; however, he also shot 60% from the 3 point line which is outstanding. It would help a lot if he could give us 14 points a game until Manu is back. We desperately need his offense. Finley has had up and downs with the Spurs. We need an up year from him this year with Manu out.

Thomas: Thomas was at one time a double double guy and a solid defender. Until Oberto returns or Mahimni recovers, Thomas will be Tim's back-up. He has to defensive rebound and help protect the paint during that time. So far, he hasn't done it. He hasn't given us anything.

Farmer: Didn't do much last game. His role is to score in order to make up for Manu's absence. So, he needs to put the ball in the basket for us because we will need the points.

Vaughan: can't expect him to put a lot of points on the board, but still we will need points from everybody.

When Hill, Mahinmi, Oberto, and Tolliver return to the line-up, they will also need to be productive.

I just think that there might be too many unproductive offensive players on our team when we need to replace the scoring of one of our top 3 players.
I don't know if we will be able to keep up this kind of scoring through out the regular season until Manu gets back.

When everybody but Manu is back, I hope that we get production out of:

1. Tim Duncan 24 ppg, 10 reb
2. Tony Parker 24 ppg, 8 assists, 4 reb
3. Roger Mason 14 ppg, 4 reb
4. Michael Finley 14 ppg, 3 reb
5. Ime Udoka 7 ppg 3 reb
6. Oberto 7 ppg 4 reb
7. Ian Mahinmi 7 ppg 7 reb
8. Hill 7 ppg 3 assists
9. Farmer 4 ppg
10. Bonner 4 ppg 2 reb
11. Thomas 2 ppg 1 reb
12. Bowen 1 ppg 1 reb
13. Tolliver 1 ppg 1 reb
14. Vaughan 1 ppg 1 assist

Roger replaces Manu (in the line-up), Ime replaces Bruce (in the line-up), we go small so Michael is in and we get scoring, and Tim is the lone big [this is option 1 and we are small- similar to against the Trailblazers].

Or Tim and Oberto are in together (instead of Tim and Micheal - so we are not going small, we are normal) [option 2 - when everyone is healthy except Manu]. Then, Kurt and Mahinimi sub in for Tim or Oberto (respectively, Kurt subs in for either Tim or Oberto, when Tim or Oberto returns, then Mahinmi subs in for the other). Hill subs in for Tony Parker. Either Tony or Tim is in at all times. Roger is is the starting line up still. Michael starts. Udoka subs in for Michael Finley off the bench.

You know the Spurs would be averaging 110 if that happened, right? I'm hoping for

1. Tim Duncan 24 ppg, 10 reb
2. Tony Parker 24 ppg, 8 assists, 4 reb
3. Roger Mason 14 ppg, 4 reb
4. Michael Finley 14 ppg, 3 reb
5. Ime Udoka 7 ppg 3 reb
6. Oberto 7 ppg 4 reb
9. Farmer 4 ppg
10. Bonner 4 ppg 2 reb
11. Thomas 2 ppg 1 reb


too, but everyone else, who know?

... fuck. Even what I cut and pasted gets 100 ppg, which I believe is possible, if they had more possesions. Fab should help in the rebound department. Then again, they couldn't do that with Manu, so I don't see it happening this year unless something just clicks.

[polandprzem]

Is that possible LJ to read my PM to you?

Or am I blocked somehow?

[SpursDynasty]

Here's my game review:

The Spurs had the game won but missed a shot at the end. The Blazers celebrated like they just won the championship, only to lose to Phoenix the next night.

[Manufan909]

I think we'll stick to timvp's takes.

[objective]

Unbelievable the Pop would continuously gamble on players with declining skills.


Hasn't Pop usually gone the route of gambling on players with declining if not rapidly declining skills?

Damon Stoudamire, Nick Van Exel, Terry Porter, Steve Smith, Michael Finley, soon to be Kurt Thomas, etc, and that's just off the top of my head.

That's what Pop does. Steve Smith and Terry Porter fell all over themselves with bricks while Stephen Jackson was de-activated for the playoffs. Van Exel continuously getting minutes against Dallas when he was a disaster on both ends of the court. And so on and so on.

That's just the Spurs way, isn't it?

[The Truth #6]

Hasn't Pop usually gone the route of gambling on players with declining if not rapidly declining skills?

Damon Stoudamire, Nick Van Exel, Terry Porter, Steve Smith, Michael Finley, soon to be Kurt Thomas, etc, and that's just off the top of my head.

That's what Pop does. Steve Smith and Terry Porter fell all over themselves with bricks while Stephen Jackson was de-activated for the playoffs. Van Exel continuously getting minutes against Dallas when he was a disaster on both ends of the court. And so on and so on.

That's just the Spurs way, isn't it?

I think Pop sometimes doesn't realize that the human body, unlike a bottle of wine, doesn't always improve with age.

Having SJax on the team at all is such an aberration given the context of what type of players we usually seek out.

[TJastal]

I think Pop sometimes doesn't realize that the human body, unlike a bottle of wine, doesn't always improve with age.

Having SJax on the team at all is such an aberration given the context of what type of players we usually seek out.

Nice analogy. =)

I'm usually negative about Popovich too, but I've decided to go on hold right now to wait and see how the new players gel and contribute, I'm hoping Hill and Mahinmi can provide some youthful spark off the bench.

Picking up Mason (whom I thought would be 1 dimensional, ie another Finley), was a very shrewd pickup, as he has proven to be a great all around player, and clutch too. Udoka was also a good pickup and is becoming an important cog in the spurs rotation.

A successful team will have a good blend of youth and experienced veterans. Right now to start the season, the youthful elements are getting all the attention and making the most noise with fresh legs and monster jams. Later on however, the veterans and their experience will slowly assert themselves. Which I'm hoping that the spurs will have that right balance, and the odds fall to their favor the longer the season wears on barring injuries.

So Pop has earned a reprieve from me for now for the development of Udoka, the pickup of Mason, and hopefully 1 or more of Hill / Mahinmi / Tolliver can show us something special.

[Solid D]

I'm a little late to come in this time, but nice game thoughts, timvp. Nice fresh look for 2008-09.

I will just add a few observations about the Portland game. The first half had Duncan, Parker and Finley in double figures and the only other scorer was bench scorer Desmon Farmer. The 2nd quarter got away from the Spurs with the bench really not doing much of anything at either end of the floor. The Spurs were never able to close the separation the Blazers gained in the 2nd until the 4th quarter, where at just under the 10-minute mark of the 4th, the Spurs went small and stayed small with the exception of 1 trip at the end with KT coming for defense. Finley and Udoka played the 4 and by spreading the floor, TP, Vaughn and Mason were able to draw and kick to the open shooters.

The shooting was phenomenal for both teams. The Spurs played soft on the pick and pops, in an attempt to cover the interior a bit more, and the Blazers made them pay. Roy and Aldridge were knocking down shots like there was nobody else on the floor. Even when the Spurs trapped Roy off the screen, Aldridge did the deed from long range on at least two trips. This was as good an all-around game as I've seen from LaMarcus Aldridge. His post footwork, lower body leverage, and turn to the baseline jumper were impressive. He looks stronger and his defense and physicality are much improved. His helpside shot-altering and rebounding seemed to feed the transition game. If I'm gushing a bit on him, it's not without merit.

One other thing I'll mention about Mason and his offensive contributions to this team, thusfar. Roger showed some nice awareness and aggressiveness with dribble-drives and dribbling to open space for jumpshots. By awareness, I mean, he waited for the player at the top to rotate around and draw his man away from the middle, using a nice cross-over, between the legs move before starting his dribble drive. Mace has primarily been a catch and shoot player, much like Mike Finley....until this year. It seems Roger has stepped up and added that element to his game to provide what Manu always brings to the team.

It will be good to get a look at this year's Spurs with Fab, Tolliver and Hill in the mix.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I, too, am late chiming in, but kudos to Timvp for another nice recap.

I just have a couple of thoughts to add. For the second game in a row I noticed that Kurt Thomas just didn't add anything of value out there. As a big KT fan I was pretty disappointed. I'm wondering if he's still slowed by his injury out there. Even as a team, we just seemed to stagnate with KT on the floor.

Bonner played a lot better than his game 1 I thought. When we have our full frontcourt I'm not going to feel as bad about those fouls of his. If he can play spot minutes and be really aggressive on defense and hit an open three, that's about all I think we can expect, or hope from him.

Udoka impressed. I think we shouldn't be afraid of playing small ball with Udoka depending on the matchup. Our defense looked the best it looked all night when he was in the paint with Tim. He's not the fastest guy, but he's so strong that having him defend the post, especially in lieu of Bonner/Thomas is probably a good move.

I, like Solid, am looking forward to see how Fabricio, Hill and Tolliver fit in.

[whottt]

When everybody but Manu is back, I hope that we get production out of:

1. Tim Duncan 24 ppg, 10 reb
2. Tony Parker 24 ppg, 8 assists, 4 reb
3. Roger Mason 14 ppg, 4 reb
4. Michael Finley 14 ppg, 3 reb
5. Ime Udoka 7 ppg 3 reb
6. Oberto 7 ppg 4 reb
7. Ian Mahinmi 7 ppg 7 reb
8. Hill 7 ppg 3 assists
9. Farmer 4 ppg
10. Bonner 4 ppg 2 reb
11. Thomas 2 ppg 1 reb
12. Bowen 1 ppg 1 reb
13. Tolliver 1 ppg 1 reb
14. Vaughan 1 ppg 1 assist


Why not just hope Kurt Thomas goes for 50 points per game this year...it's got about the same chance of happening.