My Five Final Reasons Against McCain/Palin

[spurster]

1. Bush doctrine of preventive war.

"Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb. bomb, Iran". Yeah, this doctrine has worked out so well for us. McCain's "joke" and his belligerence on Russia would indicate this continuing. Amazingly, Iraq is a non-issue because they are going to kick us out.

2. Division of the US into pro- and anti-America.

I am so tired of the traitor card.

3. Drill, Baby, Drill.

We need to take action on global warming. We need to make informed decisions based on the best science and the best research, rather than blind ideology.

4. Fiscal Irresponsibility.

I don't see anywhere where McCain is going to diverge from Bush's path to national bankruptcy. If anything, he will go faster down that path. Obama's policies aren't so great here either, but they are better.

5. Torture.

End torture now. "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he's [Obama is] worried that someone won't read them their rights." McCain/Palin are ambiguous on this, so one can only guess it will continue secretively. As for AQ, Obama wants to get OBL as badly as anyone else.

[DarkReign]

All fair points except #5.

McCain is ardently against torture, period.

[Oh, Gee!!]

All fair points except #5.

McCain is ardently against torture, period.

but he defines it so narrowly that pretty much nothing qualifies as torture.

[hater]

All fair points except #5.

McCain is ardently against torture, period.

Mccain also does not consider torture the act of hanging someone from the wrists and this way keeping them awake for 24 straight hours.

[DarkReign]

but he defines it so narrowly that pretty much nothing qualifies as torture.


Really?! I would have sworn I remember him saying almost quote for quote "No torture for any reason" or some such.

Man, if he for torture, Ive lost all respect for him.

Torture has been proven to not work. There is little to fabricated "actionable intelligence" derived from torture. They just start telling you what you want to hear so the pain stops. They'll admit anything and everything.

I remember watching some PBS special and a former CIA interogator straight said, "Torture doesnt work. Leverage works." That basically, the captive can help their family or their situation or whatever if they start talking. Otherwise, your family is going to be arrested and prosecuted, youre going to a small, dark cell for the rest of your life with no chance of ever getting out.

Anyway, I hope youre wrong about McCain.

[Bartleby]

I wouldn't say McCain has done a total flip-flop on torture, but he appears to have softened his position when he voted against the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2008, which bans waterboarding.

[101A]

Really?! I would have sworn I remember him saying almost quote for quote "No torture for any reason" or some such.

Man, if he for torture, Ive lost all respect for him.

Torture has been proven to not work. There is little to fabricated "actionable intelligence" derived from torture. They just start telling you what you want to hear so the pain stops. They'll admit anything and everything.

I remember watching some PBS special and a former CIA interogator straight said, "Torture doesnt work. Leverage works." That basically, the captive can help their family or their situation or whatever if they start talking. Otherwise, your family is going to be arrested and prosecuted, youre going to a small, dark cell for the rest of your life with no chance of ever getting out.

Anyway, I hope youre wrong about McCain.

Dude.

You need to watch 24.

Torture WORKS - unless you're torturing Jack Bauer; then it NEVER works - and YOU end up dead (well, sometimes so does he, but he always comes back to life and kills you).

[Shastafarian]

Dude.

You need to watch 24.

Torture WORKS - unless you're torturing Jack Bauer; then it NEVER works - and YOU end up dead (well, sometimes so does he, but he always comes back to life and kills you).

:lol

People should watch Taxi to the Dark Side. Excellent Documentary on torture and the United States Military/Government.

[LnGrrrR]

Really?! I would have sworn I remember him saying almost quote for quote "No torture for any reason" or some such.

Man, if he for torture, Ive lost all respect for him.

He railed against... the Patriot Act, I believe it was, or an update, in 2006. Said something about being one of the worst things as a country we can do. Then he voted for it. :p

[hater]

Really?! I would have sworn I remember him saying almost quote for quote "No torture for any reason" or some such.

Man, if he for torture, Ive lost all respect for him.

Torture has been proven to not work. There is little to fabricated "actionable intelligence" derived from torture. They just start telling you what you want to hear so the pain stops. They'll admit anything and everything.

I remember watching some PBS special and a former CIA interogator straight said, "Torture doesnt work. Leverage works." That basically, the captive can help their family or their situation or whatever if they start talking. Otherwise, your family is going to be arrested and prosecuted, youre going to a small, dark cell for the rest of your life with no chance of ever getting out.

Anyway, I hope youre wrong about McCain.


Torture Survivors Ask McCain to Renounce His Support for TortureTue Aug 5, 2008 3:23pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] Former Abu Ghraib interrogator and torture survivors say torture is immoral
and ineffective

MEDIA ADVISORY for Thursday, August 7th, 11:00 a.m.

TELEPHONE PRESS CONFERENCE CALL

A former U.S. military interrogator at Abu Ghraib and a survivor of torture
will recount their experiences and ask U.S. Senator John McCain to renounce
his recent positions on torture and stand firm against the use of torture as
an interrogation technique.
As the military commissions in Guantanamo Bay demonstrate, torture is not only
immoral, but also ineffective. Evidence collected with the use of torture was
inadmissible in the prosecution of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, Osama Bin Laden's
driver. Also, concerns that much of the evidence against another Guantanamo
detainee, Mohamed al Qahtani, would similarly be ruled inadmissible forced the
government to drop the case entirely.

Joshua Casteel, who served at the Abu Ghraib prison camp; Father Roy
Bourgeois, founder of School of Americas Watch, Purple Heart recipient, and
torture survivor; and USAction Program Director Alan Charney will participate
in a press conference at 11 a.m. Thursday, August 7th. Call in number is
1-219-509-8111. Passcode is 36170.

"When I served in Iraq, every camera in the world was pointed at Abu Ghraib
and two things happened as a result," Casteel said. "Practices at Abu Ghraib
vastly improved, but the dark activity which previously happened there went
elsewhere. Techniques [in other prison facilities] included induced
hypothermia, smashing hands with hammers and all sorts of activities which
clearly are within the bounds of torture by any reasonable, humane standard."
The press conference comes after more than 20,000 Americans signed a petition
urging Senator McCain to renounce torture. The petition drive was sponsored by
Catholics United, School of the Americas Watch, and TrueMajority.org.
TrueMajority.org is the online project of USAction, a key member of the
coalition of groups opposing the Iraq war.

The three groups participating in Wednesday's press conference recently
distributed a video in which Casteel asks Senator McCain to appeal to his
"better angels" and recommit himself to the fight against torture.

Once, McCain was a leader in the struggle against torture by sponsoring
legislation to ban U.S. military personnel from using torture as an
interrogation tactic. This year, McCain abandoned his stand and voted against
an anti-torture amendment to the intelligence authorization bill and voted in
favor of granting interrogators retroactive immunity for past instances of
torture. There is extensive documentation of torture and abuse not only at
Abu Ghraib, but also at the Guantanamo Bay prison facility and in the secret
CIA interrogation program.


/PRNewswire-USNewswire -- Aug. 5/

[DarkReign]

:lol

People should watch Taxi to the Dark Side. Excellent Documentary on torture and the United States Military/Government.

That was what I watched, now that you mention it.

[DarkReign]

Torture Survivors Ask McCain to Renounce His Support for TortureTue Aug 5, 2008 3:23pm EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page | Recommend (0) [-] Text [+] Former Abu Ghraib interrogator and torture survivors say torture is immoral
and ineffective

....

interrogation tactic. This year, McCain abandoned his stand and voted against
an anti-torture amendment to the intelligence authorization bill and voted in
favor of granting interrogators retroactive immunity for past instances of
torture. There is extensive documentation of torture and abuse not only at
Abu Ghraib, but also at the Guantanamo Bay prison facility and in the secret
CIA interrogation program.


/PRNewswire-USNewswire -- Aug. 5/

Well that seals it then. Dude would do anything and everything to be elected, abandoning his own principles in some weird attempt at garnering the vote he should have never wanted in the first place.

Sad, very sad.

[ElNono]

I would also add Palin's stance on keeping and growing the VP office powers, an invention of Cheney to over extend executive powers. Man, I can't wait for these fuckers in office to take a hike.

[implacable44]

1. Bush doctrine of preventive war.

"Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb. bomb, Iran". Yeah, this doctrine has worked out so well for us. McCain's "joke" and his belligerence on Russia would indicate this continuing. Amazingly, Iraq is a non-issue because they are going to kick us out.

2. Division of the US into pro- and anti-America.

I am so tired of the traitor card.

3. Drill, Baby, Drill.

We need to take action on global warming. We need to make informed decisions based on the best science and the best research, rather than blind ideology.

4. Fiscal Irresponsibility.

I don't see anywhere where McCain is going to diverge from Bush's path to national bankruptcy. If anything, he will go faster down that path. Obama's policies aren't so great here either, but they are better.

5. Torture.

End torture now. "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he's [Obama is] worried that someone won't read them their rights." McCain/Palin are ambiguous on this, so one can only guess it will continue secretively. As for AQ, Obama wants to get OBL as badly as anyone else.


#3 is garbage - Nobody -- nobody calls it global warming - it evolved to global climate change because they have not got a leg to stand on with that global warming Al Gore con job. Pretty soon it will be global cooling with another ice age....

[The Reckoning]

LOL on global warming. the other day, october 29th, while the house of commons was passing a bill to fight global warming, the first london snowfall since 1922 was falling on parliament. also, while earth was warming up so was the moon. i think its more refreshing to have a greener agenda because it paves way for better ingenuity, but to say we're being cooked solely by our own actions is stupid.

[boutons_]

"McCain is ardently against torture, period."

you haven't been paying attention.

One of McNasty's career-long, defining characteristics was anti-torture, until he caved in to dubya's pro-torture policy, exposing another aspect of McNasty's deeply flawed character.

[implacable44]

"McCain is ardently against torture, period."

you haven't been paying attention.

One McNasty's defining characteristics was anti-torture, until he caved in to dubya's pro-torture policy, exposing another aspect of McNasty's deeply flawed character.

as compared to that oak -- the Messiah of character - Obama who cannot possibly cut rev. wright off - then "does" for public concern - denies relationships with william Ayers - lets not get into his home purchase or Acorn -

[FromWayDowntown]

I would also add Palin's stance on keeping and growing the VP office powers, an invention of Cheney to over extend executive powers. Man, I can't wait for these fuckers in office to take a hike.

I'm shocked, really, that so little was made of Palin's view of Vice Presidential powers during this campaign, particularly given the extent to which Cheney's efforts to expand those powers have been criticized.

[doobs]

3. Drill, Baby, Drill.

We need to take action on global warming. We need to make informed decisions based on the best science and the best research, rather than blind ideology.


Sorry, this one made me laugh. Global warming alarmism is blind ideology.

[RandomGuy]

Well that seals it then. Dude would do anything and everything to be elected, abandoning his own principles in some weird attempt at garnering the vote he should have never wanted in the first place.

Sad, very sad.

Yup.

I have argued against torture for years, and always counted on McCain as having the bully pulpit when it came to that issue, and the fact that he was so outspoken against it. He cast another vote outside of the one this August about waterboarding that essentially went along with the administration (1-2 years ago if memory serves). That blew my mind.

Don't get me wrong here, I am a grown up and know that candidates for national office tend to roll a bit in an effort to widen their appeal, but this just was one of those things that I couldn't forgive McCain for. One hopes that somewhere there are deeply held principles that a man just won't go back on no matter what, but I have yet to see McCain stand for anything this election cycle other than winning.

It is the "win at all costs" streak that worries me so much about the right-wing of this nation.

Can one associate the greater tendency of most business school students (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aEL5ZnKhQuXY&refer=us)to cheat with their tendency to vote Republican?

[implacable44]

I am still laughing -- amazed that someone still is clinging to GLobal Warming. Al Gore must be so proud that he still has like 5 or 10 stupid people holding on to the global warming disaster.

[implacable44]

Well that seals it then. Dude would do anything and everything to be elected, abandoning his own principles in some weird attempt at garnering the vote he should have never wanted in the first place.

Sad, very sad.

That is true for both candidates.. The MEssiah or the old guy. This is an accurate description for both parties.

[spurster]

Sorry, this one made me laugh. Global warming alarmism is blind ideology.

Tell that to the Arctic and the Antarctic.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jzJJOEuw2YD_XOO3w2wckTQGK2UwD93RNNVG2

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=warmer-antarctica-proves-global-climate-change

[DarkReign]

That is true for both candidates.. The MEssiah or the old guy. This is an accurate description for both parties.

While I certainly agree in general with you, I dont really have a prime example of Obama in this instance like I do with McCain.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primaries for his center-right positions. He was not a neocon (before I even knew what a neocon was). He was not a warmonger, he was a fiscal conservative with a track record to prove it, etc.

Granted, Obama hasnt been around long enough to see what issues he would scuttle on under pressure from the elctorate...I concede that point.

But McCain has basically abandoned every principle I admired him for in an effort to become POTUS. Unfortunately for him (and for me personally), he has convinced me that he isnt lying about what he would do in office. If he had somehow lied about his current economic/domestic policies in an effort to be elected, only to then renig on all of that and revert to his circa 2000 agenda, I'd be very happy with him.

But he picked Palin. Fucking Palin. Palin, for chrissakes...

That convinced me he wasnt bullshitting or lying his way to the Oval Office, he really has sold out and would be complicit with whatever agenda his party had in mind.

Honestly, it saddens me.

I said this in the big thread...The Dems will fuck up just as bad if not a lot worse than the Repubs did with the majority in Congress and the White House. Especially because our economy sucks and we just increased our national debt by nearly $1 trillion in bailouts alone (with more to come).

But we have been given no believable alternative to this trainwreck. I am happy that a mjority of the country is colorblind, I am proud our country will elect a minority President for reasons that transcend Affirmative Action. Obama is actually a pretty damn intelligent human being...that will be a nice change right off the bat. He actually commands the English language with aplomb, who knew right?

But he is also very green, and Obama doesnt scare me, the Democrat Congress does.

[implacable44]

While I certainly agree in general with you, I dont really have a prime example of Obama in this instance like I do with McCain.

I voted for McCain in the 2000 primaries for his center-right positions. He was not a neocon (before I even knew what a neocon was). He was not a warmonger, he was a fiscal conservative with a track record to prove it, etc.

Granted, Obama hasnt been around long enough to see what issues he would scuttle on under pressure from the elctorate...I concede that point.

But McCain has basically abandoned every principle I admired him for in an effort to become POTUS. Unfortunately for him (and for me personally), he has convinced me that he isnt lying about what he would do in office. If he had somehow lied about his current economic/domestic policies in an effort to be elected, only to then renig on all of that and revert to his circa 2000 agenda, I'd be very happy with him.

But he picked Palin. Fucking Palin. Palin, for chrissakes...

That convinced me he wasnt bullshitting or lying his way to the Oval Office, he really has sold out and would be complicit with whatever agenda his party had in mind.

Honestly, it saddens me.

I said this in the big thread...The Dems will fuck up just as bad if not a lot worse than the Repubs did with the majority in Congress and the White House.

But we have been given no believable alternative to this trainwreck. I am happy that a mjority of the country is colorblind, I am proud our country will elect a minority President for reasons that transcend Affirmative Action. Obama is actually a pretty damn intelligent human being...that will be a nice change right off the bat. He actually commands the English language with aplomb, who knew right?

But he is also very green, and Obama doesnt scare me, the Democrat Congress does.


I Can agree with you on the last sentence. and I also agree it is refreshing to see that American has come along far enough to elect a black president ( hopefully this will be the end of the race card being played over and over and if it is - then it will all be worth it for me to not have to listen to the race card ever again)

I disagree with you on Palin - you condemn her for her mistakes / gaffes / greenm status - yet you don't do the same for Obama ( i.e. Auschwitz, punished with a baby, typical white person, calling gradma racist, supposedly being the man for the poor folks yet between he and Biden they gave less to charity in 2007 than I did, his statements on how he would elect supreme court justices, 57 states?)

Hell, Al Gore has a command of the English language - yet he invented the internet and believes in Global Warming ?

But - like I said - Obama won't have nearly as much power without that super majority --if he gets a super majority then I really do fear for this country and where he and THEY will take us.

[Bartleby]

Palin is in idiot. Plain and simple. Why is that so hard to accept?

[CuckingFunt]

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/61204-colbert-report-how-to-be-a-maverick

[implacable44]

Palin is in idiot. Plain and simple. Why is that so hard to accept?

How is she more of an "idiot" (as you define it) than the Messiah ?

[hater]

How is she more of an "idiot" (as you define it) than the Messiah ?

is this a serious question?

she is more of an idiot that the Messiah's gardener

[Gino]

1. Bush doctrine of preventive war.

"Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb. bomb, Iran". Yeah, this doctrine has worked out so well for us. McCain's "joke" and his belligerence on Russia would indicate this continuing. Amazingly, Iraq is a non-issue because they are going to kick us out.

2. Division of the US into pro- and anti-America.

I am so tired of the traitor card.

3. Drill, Baby, Drill.

We need to take action on global warming. We need to make informed decisions based on the best science and the best research, rather than blind ideology.

4. Fiscal Irresponsibility.

I don't see anywhere where McCain is going to diverge from Bush's path to national bankruptcy. If anything, he will go faster down that path. Obama's policies aren't so great here either, but they are better.
5. Torture.

End torture now. "Al-Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he's [Obama is] worried that someone won't read them their rights." McCain/Palin are ambiguous on this, so one can only guess it will continue secretively. As for AQ, Obama wants to get OBL as badly as anyone else.


That has to be the dumbest thing ive read in my entire life. McCain request zero earmarks as a senator, proposes a spending freeze that Obama calls "using a hatchet when u need a scalpel" in three different debates, yet you believe that McCain and not Obama is the one that will spend us into bankruptcy?

Obama supporters have to be the dumbest people on the planet.

[DarkReign]

I disagree with you on Palin - you condemn her for her mistakes / gaffes / greenm status - yet you don't do the same for Obama ( i.e. Auschwitz, punished with a baby, typical white person, calling gradma racist, supposedly being the man for the poor folks yet between he and Biden they gave less to charity in 2007 than I did, his statements on how he would elect supreme court justices, 57 states?)

I dont like Palin because she was never vetted by her own party, much less the media.

I dont like Palin because shes a lacky who gets by on her folksy speech pattern and her incessant pandering to the "redneck in you".

I dont like Palin because she preaches, in no uncertain terms, about division in America. She wants to categorize you as "Us" and me as "Them". You as pro-America, me as anti-America. You as Patriotic, me as Treasonous. While you have Obama being as all-inclusive as possible (unless you make over $250k...shit, someone has to get the shaft, guess its me this time).

I dont like Palin because she hasnt ever even shown a prior interest in foreign affairs before she was selected as the RNC VP.

I dont like Palin because it took her 6 colleges to get a bachelor's degree. Her stick-to-it-iveness is severly lacking.

I dont like Palin because she tries to qualify herself as an executive because she is governor of Alaska. Newsflash: The Mayor of Chicago oversees almost 5x (4.6x to be exact) more people than the governor of Alaska does. She is a first term governor of a state that receives more money in Federal funds than it contributes by the widest margin per capita in the entire United States! I'm sorry, you are not a proven executive when the deck is stacked for you to succeed.

I dont like Palin because she has such a minimal amount of intellectual curiosity. Honestly, I think before she was VP, I knew more about the world than she does/did. Thats scary friend, because there are people on this forum who make me look like an elementary student when it comes to foreign affairs. None of us are in line to be VP.

I dont like Palin because she would be the penultimate puppet for whatever interest group inside the Republican Party got her nominated in the first fucking place. McCain wanted Lieberman or (damnit, can never remember this guy's name) the-governor-from-Alabama-or-Arkansas, but yet he somehow....magically picked Palin after meeting her twice previously. Bullshit. He was "strongly encouraged" to pick Palin by either 1) the senior Republican Leadership or 2) a secretive coalition of powers that can influence the Republican Leadership to "strongly encourage" Palin as VP pick. Either way, someone not named John McCain wanted Palin as VP....to the oldest potential President-elect in the history of the US.

Palin the VP who has 1) little to no interest in the world outside Wasilla, 2) little to no working knowledge of the Federal government besides what she read in whatever-the-fuck-she-reads magazine, 3) little problem with dividing the country based on patriotism and American...-ism.

But worst of all, Palin the Vice President would owe someone or some group a HUGE debt of gratitude. She went from Ms Alaska, to mayor of Podunk, Nowhere to Governor of Alaska to Vice President of the United States.

One of those is not like the other.

I think Palin represents everything thats wrong with modern politics. A cute smile, a "dontchaknow" here with a "you betcha" there, and you automatically have 40% of the electorate in your corner. She has never been vetted, she still hasnt been vetted and McCain has the highest possible chance of dying in office that I can remember.

Palin, as VP or God forbid, as President would be a puppet for whomever she owes for her rapid ascension, and she is far too dumb and uninterested to know the damn difference.

Palin represents everything that is wrong with our country on soooo many levels. She does and represents nothing to a vast majority of people in this country. She appeals to hardcore Republicans, religious zealots and lonely older males. Period.

No offense, but I detest partisanship, I am no man of an organized God and I dont vote with my penis. Guess I'm un-American.

[implacable44]

I dont like Palin because she was never vetted by her own party, much less the media.

I dont like Palin because shes a lacky who gets by on her folksy speech pattern and her incessant pandering to the "redneck in you".

I dont like Palin because she preaches, in no uncertain terms, about division in America. She wants to categorize you as "Us" and me as "Them". You as pro-America, me as anti-America. You as Patriotic, me as Treasonous. While you have Obama being as all-inclusive as possible (unless you make over $250k...shit, someone has to get the shaft, guess its me this time).

I dont like Palin because she hasnt ever even shown a prior interest in foreign affairs before she was selected as the RNC VP.

I dont like Palin because it took her 6 colleges to get a bachelor's degree. Her stick-to-it-iveness is severly lacking.

I dont like Palin because she tries to qualify herself as an executive because she is governor of Alaska. Newsflash: The Mayor of Chicago oversees almost 5x (4.6x to be exact) more people than the governor of Alaska does. She is a first term governor of a state that receives more money in Federal funds than it contributes by the widest margin per capita in the entire United States! I'm sorry, you are not a proven executive when the deck is stacked for you to succeed.

I dont like Palin because she has such a minimal amount of intellectual curiosity. Honestly, I think before she was VP, I knew more about the world than she does/did. Thats scary friend, because there are people on this forum who make me look like an elementary student when it comes to foreign affairs. None of us are in line to be VP.

I dont like Palin because she would be the penultimate puppet for whatever interest group inside the Republican Party got her nominated in the first fucking place. McCain wanted Lieberman or (damnit, can never remember this guy's name) the-governor-from-Alabama-or-Arkansas, but yet he somehow....magically picked Palin after meeting her twice previously. Bullshit. He was "strongly encouraged" to pick Palin by either 1) the senior Republican Leadership or 2) a secretive coalition of powers that can influence the Republican Leadership to "strongly encourage" Palin as VP pick. Either way, someone not named John McCain wanted Palin as VP....to the oldest potential President-elect in the history of the US.

Palin the VP who has 1) little to no interest in the world outside Wasilla, 2) little to no working knowledge of the Federal government besides what she read in whatever-the-fuck-she-reads magazine, 3) little problem with dividing the country based on patriotism and American...-ism.

But worst of all, Palin the Vice President would owe someone or some group a HUGE debt of gratitude. She went from Ms Alaska, to mayor of Podunk, Nowhere to Governor of Alaska to Vice President of the United States.

One of those is not like the other.

I think Palin represents everything thats wrong with modern politics. A cute smile, a "dontchaknow" here with a "you betcha" there, and you automatically have 40% of the electorate in your corner. She has never been vetted, she still hasnt been vetted and McCain has the highest possible chance of dying in office that I can remember.

Palin, as VP or God forbid, as President would be a puppet for whomever she owes for her rapid ascension, and she is far too dumb and uninterested to know the damn difference.

Palin represents everything that is wrong with our country on soooo many levels. She does and represents nothing to a vast majority of people in this country. She appeals to hardcore Republicans, religious zealots and lonely older males. Period.

No offense, but I detest partisanship, I am no man of an organized God and I dont vote with my penis. Guess I'm un-American.

Who cares if she was vetted by a bias media ? Why does that matter?

she appeals to middle america so what ? Obama doesn't do the same with his " I dont look like the other presidents" comments ?

Obama preaches division too - along racial and economic lines. All of them preach division.

What interest did Obama have in foreign affairs - to your knowledge - before he threw his hat in the ring for the presidency with his 129 " Present" votes ? I can't remember who called him a chickens---- ,, but the shoe definitely fits.

Who cares how many colleges she attended before she got her bachelors degree. She got it done.

Obama tries to qualify himself as an executive because he organized communities - and that is okay with you ? She was a Mayor and a Governor - meaning she was CEO of a town and a state - she was an executive.

Palin is a puppet and yet there are several - maybe yourself included - - who have called her ROGUE on here... ?? You can't have it both ways. Either she is a pupper or she is rogue .. which will it be ? The same can be said of Obama - only it will actually fit .. He is a puppet for the FAR LEFT - Acorn - William Ayers - Soros funded groups - he is a puppet.

Obama went from Community organizer to the Senate- - all with help from several groups ACORN , etc... who he owes a HUGE debt too.

I am not a hardcore republican ( A conservative and registered independent) , religious zealot ( I believe in and worship God but I also believe everyone is free to worship who, how, when, where and whom they choose to - or choose not to) , or a lonely older male... nor do I vote with my genitals. She sure as hell appeals to me.

[Anti.Hero]

Implacable laying down the OWANGE on ppl too ignorant to realize it!

[Mr. Peabody]

I dont like Palin because she was never vetted by her own party, much less the media.

. . . .
No offense, but I detest partisanship, I am no man of an organized God and I dont vote with my penis. Guess I'm un-American.

Nice post.....as usual.

[baseline bum]

Palin is the stupidest person to ever run for an office this high, and it's an insult to America for McCain to pick such a moron. The only things Palin have going for her are sex appeal and the church to hide behind. Palin is one of the main reasons McCain's campaign has gone to hell this last month, and if the Republicans try to throw her or someone like her out in 2012, they're going to kill their own party. Palin is another Bush, and America most certainly does not want that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Palin is a puppet and yet there are several - maybe yourself included - - who have called her ROGUE on here... ?? You can't have it both ways. Either she is a pupper or she is rogue .. which will it be ?

Given that Palin isn't at the top of the ticket, it's actually quite feasible to think that she's a rogue with respect to the McCain campaign -- at least occasionally going off script and avowing positions that vary with McCain's -- and yet remain susceptible of being a puppet to those who have philosophical differences with McCain. I'm not sure that rogue and puppet are entirely binary choices.

There's little doubt to me that the faction of the Republican party that earnestly supports McCain is different than the faction of that party that earnestly supports Palin. I'm oversimplifying, to be sure, but there is a big split among Republicans, from what I've seen, between those who are ardently socially conservative and those who are more socially moderate. And there's little doubt (to me anyway) that, at bottom, McCain and Palin are not in the same camp on those issues. And I think it's completely realistic to perceive that Palin (and/or those who've seen to it that she is where she is) are interested in pressing their view of those issues as this campaign winds down.

In that way, she can be both a rogue and a puppet.

[FromWayDowntown]

I dont like Palin because she was never vetted by her own party, much less the media.

* * * *


This might be among the best thought-out criticisms of Palin that I've read here or elsewhere. I think Palin's lack of intellectual curiosity (which seems evident in her manner -- to say nothing of the overt distaste for intellectuals) and her willingness to essentially blame others for her failings (screeds about the biased media after she objectively fell on her face with Couric) are troubling.

I'll admit, as well, to being philosophically at odds with Palin on almost everything (from what I can discern of her political and philosophical moorings) and would not vote for her on that basis alone, even if she all of her many non-political faults didn't exist.

[spurster]

That has to be the dumbest thing ive read in my entire life. McCain request zero earmarks as a senator, proposes a spending freeze that Obama calls "using a hatchet when u need a scalpel" in three different debates, yet you believe that McCain and not Obama is the one that will spend us into bankruptcy?

Obama supporters have to be the dumbest people on the planet.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/presidential_candidates.cfm

From the full report:

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that the federal budget will run a cumulative deficit of $2.3 trillion over the 2009-2018 period under current law (see Summary Table 1). If federal spending evolves as CBO predicts, the proposed tax cuts would add to those deficits and substantially increase the national debt. Senator Obama’s plan as described by his economic advisers would increase the ten-year cumulative deficit by about $3.6 trillion to $5.9 trillion; Senator McCain’s plan would boost it by $5.1 trillion to nearly $7.4 trillion. Adding to their plans proposals made in stump speeches but not confirmed by campaign advisors would lower the cumulative deficit over the decade slightly to $5.4 trillion for Obama and raise it to almost $11 trillion for McCain. Beyond this, the health proposals and campaign promises not in the official descriptions could increase the costs still further.

[implacable44]

Palin is the stupidest person to ever run for an office this high, and it's an insult to America for McCain to pick such a moron. The only things Palin have going for her are sex appeal and the church to hide behind. Palin is one of the main reasons McCain's campaign has gone to hell this last month, and if the Republicans try to throw her or someone like her out in 2012, they're going to kill their own party. Palin is another Bush, and America most certainly does not want that.

the stupidest? Really ? Jimmy Carter ? Hoover ? Jessie Jackson ran for office remember ? Really ??

[implacable44]

Given that Palin isn't at the top of the ticket, it's actually quite feasible to think that she's a rogue with respect to the McCain campaign -- at least occasionally going off script and avowing positions that vary with McCain's -- and yet remain susceptible of being a puppet to those who have philosophical differences with McCain. I'm not sure that rogue and puppet are entirely binary choices.

There's little doubt to me that the faction of the Republican party that earnestly supports McCain is different than the faction of that party that earnestly supports Palin. I'm oversimplifying, to be sure, but there is a big split among Republicans, from what I've seen, between those who are ardently socially conservative and those who are more socially moderate. And there's little doubt (to me anyway) that, at bottom, McCain and Palin are not in the same camp on those issues. And I think it's completely realistic to perceive that Palin (and/or those who've seen to it that she is where she is) are interested in pressing their view of those issues as this campaign winds down.

In that way, she can be both a rogue and a puppet.

It is amazing to me FWDT that you can believe this way and yet think Obama is free from such "debts" that he is not being guided by anyone. amazing.

[FromWayDowntown]

It is amazing to me FWDT that you can believe this way and yet think Obama is free from such "debts" that he is not being guided by anyone. amazing.

You know, I never said anything about Obama, good or bad. You absurdly assume things that I've not said.

My sole point dealt with your nonsensical question in the context of Palin. That's all.

[Spurminator]

The Palin pick was a cynical testament to Republican leadership's low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists, and Palin's popularity among many of those loyalists is evidence that they're correct to have that opinion, with a few fortunate exceptions.

Of course, Democrats rallied around Kerry in 2004 only to bemoan his nomination and his weakness as a candidate after he lost, so perhaps we'll see the same with Palin.

[Shastafarian]

That has to be the dumbest thing ive read in my entire life. McCain request zero earmarks as a senator, proposes a spending freeze that Obama calls "using a hatchet when u need a scalpel" in three different debates, yet you believe that McCain and not Obama is the one that will spend us into bankruptcy?

Obama supporters have to be the dumbest people on the planet.

You're actually championing the spending freeze? Seriously?

[implacable44]

You know, I never said anything about Obama, good or bad. You absurdly assume things that I've not said.

My sole point dealt with your nonsensical question in the context of Palin. That's all.


nonsensical ? so you pretend to ASSume that these "people" behind the Palin pick had that much influence over the MAverick guy that she got the nod over others he wanted. That they had him so much in their corner that he listened and obeyed them - yet at the same time - they instruct her to be a rogue and come up with different talking points than McCain who "they" had so much influence over when they VP choice was made ? Interesting....

Well lets be fair -- do you think Obama is being run by some "group" or "organization" and that he will owe debts and favors to if elected ?

[implacable44]

The Palin pick was a cynical testament to Republican leadership's low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists, and Palin's popularity among many of those loyalists is evidence that they're correct to have that opinion, with a few fortunate exceptions.

Of course, Democrats rallied around Kerry in 2004 only to bemoan his nomination and his weakness as a candidate after he lost, so perhaps we'll see the same with Palin.

"low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists"? Yeah - next time you see a Mccain voter talking about McCain paying her mortgage and her gas and taking care of everything for her -- let me know.....

[Spurminator]

"low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists"? Yeah - next time you see a Mccain voter talking about McCain paying her mortgage and her gas and taking care of everything for her -- let me know.....

That doesn't make a shred of sense as a response to what I posted.

[Shastafarian]

"low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists"? Yeah - next time you see a Mccain voter talking about McCain paying her mortgage and her gas and taking care of everything for her -- let me know.....

FIY5lqi0eXQ

[FromWayDowntown]

Well lets be fair -- do you think Obama is being run by some "group" or "organization" and that he will owe debts and favors to if elected ?

It would be absurd to think that any politician isn't beholden to someone.

[ploto]

The Palin pick was a cynical testament to Republican leadership's low opinion of the intelligence of their party loyalists, and Palin's popularity among many of those loyalists is evidence that they're correct to have that opinion, with a few fortunate exceptions.

The Palin pick was also a testament to Republican leadership's low opinion of the intelligence of women and Palin's falling popularity among many of them is evidence that they're wrong to have THAT opinion.

[Bartleby]

the stupidest? Really ? Jimmy Carter ? Hoover ? Jessie Jackson ran for office remember ? Really ??

Carter was fairly inept as a president, but I would hardly call him stupid, especially with regard to national affairs.

[FromWayDowntown]

Carter was fairly inept as a president, but I would hardly call him stupid, especially with regard to national affairs.

Maybe implacable just thinks that someone must be stupid to hold views that aren't the same as his.

[implacable44]

Carter was fairly inept as a president, but I would hardly call him stupid, especially with regard to national affairs.

I would.

[Shastafarian]

Who cares how many colleges she attended before she got her bachelors degree. She got it done. :lmao
This is almost sig worthy.


Obama tries to qualify himself as an executive because he organized communities - and that is okay with you ? She was a Mayor and a Governor - meaning she was CEO of a town and a state - she was an executive. You claim to not be an ardent republican but you sure do spew their talking points a lot.

[ploto]

Carter was fairly inept as a president, but I would hardly call him stupid, especially with regard to national affairs.

He has a BS in Physics from the US Naval Academy- hardly stupid. Most of all, Carter sets a high standard for what a former president can do in the world after he leaves office.

[Drachen]

nonsensical ? so you pretend to ASSume that these "people" behind the Palin pick had that much influence over the MAverick guy that she got the nod over others he wanted. That they had him so much in their corner that he listened and obeyed them - yet at the same time - they instruct her to be a rogue and come up with different talking points than McCain who "they" had so much influence over when they VP choice was made ? Interesting....

Well lets be fair -- do you think Obama is being run by some "group" or "organization" and that he will owe debts and favors to if elected ?


I just wanted to say that I think the reason that he came up with this conspiracy theory about the Palin pick is that we, even as Democrats, really want to believe that at least a little bit of the John McCain of 2000 still exists. On one hand we have the possiblity that John McCain picked Palin of his own free will because he thought she would be the absolute best for the job. The ramifications of this option is that (in our eyes) John McCain has lost all possible claim to being a "Maverick," bipartisanship, and heck it greatly calls HIS judgement into question. I don't want to believe that he has completely changed because I thought he was great at the time (would have voted for him if he won the nom in 2000, and I liked Gore, so that's saying something). I think that there are a lot of people who are shocked and dismayed by the decisions he has made in this campaign and the changes in his previously stated policies ( I mean TORTURE for crying out loud, you would think that this would be the ONE area he wouldn't mess with). So with that being said, I think there are a great many of us who would rather believe some kind of cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, than to have to believe the man that we had so much respect for has fallen this far.

I know I used "we" in here a lot, I guess I only speak for myself, but maybe there are others out there like me.

[Shastafarian]

Maybe implacable just thinks that someone must be stupid to hold views that aren't the same as his.

Boy I wish that were true! Then I could call that bastard Scott Baio stupid.

[implacable44]

I missed the part in that video where the lady was oveercome with joy that obama would take care of her mortgage and her gas ?????

[implacable44]

:lmao
This is almost sig worthy.

You claim to not be an ardent republican but you sure do spew their talking points a lot.

why ? so you think your degree is more valid than the one she got -- assuming you have a degree -- and where did it come from ?

[Shastafarian]

I missed the part in that video where the lady was oveercome with joy that obama would take care of her mortgage and her gas ?????

That's because there wasn't a woman who said that. There were only several people who were on the same level dumb talking about "bringing the black".

[implacable44]

He has a BS in Physics from the US Naval Academy- hardly stupid. Most of all, Carter sets a high standard for what a former president can do in the world after he leaves office.

because he won the nobel ? wow. We really do differ on views.

[Shastafarian]

why ? so you think your degree is more valid than the one she got -- assuming you have a degree -- and where did it come from ?

Yes. I think my degree, along with anyone who got one in less than 6 accredited schools, is more "valid" when it comes to being selected to be 2nd in line to run the United States of America.

[ploto]

because he won the nobel ? wow. We really do differ on views.

His work with the Carter Center.
http://www.cartercenter.org/homepage.html

[implacable44]

That's because there wasn't a woman who said that. There were only several people who were on the same level dumb talking about "bringing the black".

that isn't what I asked for. I am sure we can you tube racist videos all day from both sides -- we can find farakkhan or rev. wright or some black panthers talking about the black man getting in office or the black house -- or killy whitey -- and we can find more racist white folks talking about bringing the black -- but then that would be divisive -- you know something you and Obama and the Dems dont do.. that is for those hate monger repubs - so why bring race into it shastaboy ? We were talking intellect and you want to bring race into it..... wierd. One might thing you were a divisive republican or something...

[implacable44]

Yes. I think my degree, along with anyone who got one in less than 6 accredited schools, is more "valid" when it comes to being selected to be 2nd in line to run the United States of America.

and why ? How ? please elaborate.

[Shastafarian]

that isn't what I asked for. I am sure we can you tube racist videos all day from both sides -- we can find farakkhan or rev. wright or some black panthers talking about the black man getting in office or the black house -- or killy whitey -- and we can find more racist white folks talking about bringing the black -- but then that would be divisive -- you know something you and Obama and the Dems dont do.. that is for those hate monger repubs - so why bring race into it shastaboy ? We were talking intellect and you want to bring race into it..... wierd. One might thing you were a divisive republican or something...

So you think those people are intelligent? Cool.

[Shastafarian]

and why ? How ? please elaborate.

How about you answer a question. Where did you go to college?

[CubanMustGo]

because he won the nobel ? wow. We really do differ on views.

Yes. No matter what accomplishments a democrat has, you give them no credence. The fucking Nobel Prize isn't a worthy accomplishment in your mind?

Get Thee To A O'Reilly Circle Jerk, already.

[Shastafarian]

I'm having trouble finding a nice video of some (more) stupid McCain/Palin supporters so I'll post this.

Np9v_mPQND0

[implacable44]

So you think those people are intelligent? Cool.

I didn't say they were intelligent or not.. you brought race into it - not me.

[implacable44]

How about you answer a question. Where did you go to college?

I already asked you that sir. and I asked you to explain why your degree from whatever institution you graduated from is superior to hers. ....waiting...tick tock.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yes. No matter what accomplishments a democrat has, you give them no credence. The fucking Nobel Prize isn't a worthy accomplishment in your mind?

I'd agree with the idea that winning a Nobel Prize (particularly the Nobel Peace Prize) does not necessarily equate to a high intellect.

But, I don't think that Jimmy Carter was an idiot either. I might not have agreed with some of his policy decisions, but for most people there's a wide gulf between disagreeing with someone and thinking someone is an intellectual lightweight.

[Shastafarian]

I didn't say they were intelligent or not.. you brought race into it - not me.

You said that video didn't have to do with the low intellect of McCain/Palin supporters. So either you didn't watch it or you think they're intelligent.

[Shastafarian]

I already asked you that sir. and I asked you to explain why your degree from whatever institution you graduated from is superior to hers. ....waiting...tick tock.

Fine. I graduated from Washington University (only college I attended!). Now you.

[implacable44]

Fine. I graduated from Washington University (only college I attended!). Now you.

University of Utah and I also played JC ball at Ricks College in Rexburg Idaho for 1 year.

[implacable44]

Fine. I graduated from Washington University (only college I attended!). Now you.

now your elaboration as to why your degree is superior to hers?

[Shastafarian]

University of Utah and I also played JC ball at Ricks College in Rexburg Idaho for 1 year.

Only 2. Congratulations! You have more respect from me than does Sarah Palin.

[Shastafarian]

now your elaboration as to why your degree is superior to hers?

Because it takes intelligence and possibly more importantly effort to attend under 6 colleges to attain a degree in journalism? Maybe?

[DarkReign]

Who cares if she was vetted by a bias media ? Why does that matter?

It is of extreme importance that any candidate be vetted. Think about what youre saying there for a moment.


she appeals to middle america so what ? Obama doesn't do the same with his " I dont look like the other presidents" comments ?

She does not appeal to middle America. She appeals to the religious south and low information voters.


Obama preaches division too - along racial and economic lines. All of them preach division.

Dont agree with racial lines, but I certainly agree with economic.


What interest did Obama have in foreign affairs - to your knowledge - before he threw his hat in the ring for the presidency with his 129 " Present" votes ? I can't remember who called him a chickens---- ,, but the shoe definitely fits.

I never said Obama/Biden was an expert, nor did I say the VP had to be. But just have an interest, a curiosity, a passing knowledge of current events and the players in the game. 3 of the 4 people in this election have that in spades.

She had none of that prior to be selected VP. Which makes me wonder who wanted her to be VP in the first place knowing that about her?


Who cares how many colleges she attended before she got her bachelors degree. She got it done.

Fair point. Very fair.


Obama tries to qualify himself as an executive because he organized communities - and that is okay with you ? She was a Mayor and a Governor - meaning she was CEO of a town and a state - she was an executive.

Please....this just doesnt fly with me and it never will.

Population of Alaska: ~680,000
Population of Chicago: ~2,800,000

GDP of Alaska: $39.9 Billion
GMP of Chicago: $440 Billion

Federal money spent per dollar contributed:
Alaska = $1.84
Illinois = $0.75

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

Like I said, this whole governor of Alaska doesnt mean shit to me anymore. The deck is stacked in that poition's favor. When youre the governor of Alaska, Big Brother bails you out, year in and year out. (Thank you, Ted Stevens!)

Shes never balanced a budget in her political life. Nor has Obama, nor has McCain or Biden or Palin.

But if I had to trust someone, would it be the born into nothing Ivy League grad and his chump VP or would it be the military man who was legacied through Anapolis and graduated fourth form the bottom and his total chump of a VP?

Tough decision, I know.


Palin is a puppet and yet there are several - maybe yourself included - - who have called her ROGUE on here... ?? You can't have it both ways. Either she is a pupper or she is rogue .. which will it be ? The same can be said of Obama - only it will actually fit .. He is a puppet for the FAR LEFT - Acorn - William Ayers - Soros funded groups - he is a puppet.

Obama went from Community organizer to the Senate- - all with help from several groups ACORN , etc... who he owes a HUGE debt too.

OK, now youre not making sense and youre slinging partisan mud. What, pray tell, does ACORN have to do with Obama? And somehow Ayers helped him?

Regardless, Palin isnt running against Obama. Lets not muddy the waters here.

I look at Palin knowing she was never McCain's choice, she is incurious and about as interested in the outside world as a hermit.

She starkly reminds me of a female Bush. There is a reason the RNC liked Bush, namely his trifecta of Rove/Rummy/Cheney. He was malleable and dumb, he was the fall guy, the puppet, the pitchman.

Funny, they were/are both governors. But keep giving them credit. You dont hear me kissing the ass of the Michigan governor, do you? No, because she sucks ass nor does she deserve to be in the VP chair. Nor does Palin, yet here we are....


I am not a hardcore republican ( A conservative and registered independent) , religious zealot ( I believe in and worship God but I also believe everyone is free to worship who, how, when, where and whom they choose to - or choose not to) , or a lonely older male... nor do I vote with my genitals. She sure as hell appeals to me.

Then I think youre being less than truthful about your genitals.

[DarkReign]

I just wanted to say that I think the reason that he came up with this conspiracy theory about the Palin pick is that we, even as Democrats, really want to believe that at least a little bit of the John McCain of 2000 still exists. On one hand we have the possiblity that John McCain picked Palin of his own free will because he thought she would be the absolute best for the job. The ramifications of this option is that (in our eyes) John McCain has lost all possible claim to being a "Maverick," bipartisanship, and heck it greatly calls HIS judgement into question. I don't want to believe that he has completely changed because I thought he was great at the time (would have voted for him if he won the nom in 2000, and I liked Gore, so that's saying something). I think that there are a lot of people who are shocked and dismayed by the decisions he has made in this campaign and the changes in his previously stated policies ( I mean TORTURE for crying out loud, you would think that this would be the ONE area he wouldn't mess with). So with that being said, I think there are a great many of us who would rather believe some kind of cloak and dagger conspiracy theory, than to have to believe the man that we had so much respect for has fallen this far.

I know I used "we" in here a lot, I guess I only speak for myself, but maybe there are others out there like me.

:tu

Go ahead and include me in the "we" portion.

[Drachen]

:tu

Go ahead and include me in the "we" portion.

Done!

[implacable44]

Because it takes intelligence and possibly more importantly effort to attend under 6 colleges to attain a degree in journalism? Maybe?

oh well I will sleep much better tonight...

I still say her degree is just as good - regardless of how many colleges she attended.

[implacable44]

Obama appeals to low information and uneducated voters.

[Shastafarian]

oh well I will sleep much better tonight...

I still say her degree is just as good - regardless of how many colleges she attended.

And I say her behavior and perceived mentality back then is partly what's wrong with our country's education system. People don't have the desire to learn.

[FromWayDowntown]

Obama appeals to low information and uneducated voters.

Just how broad is that brush that you paint with?

And I was under the impression that one major problem with Obama is that he appealed too much to the intellectual elite in their Ivy League ivory towers.

[implacable44]

Just how broad is that brush that you paint with?

And I was under the impression that one major problem with Obama is that he appealed too much to the intellectual elite in their Ivy League ivory towers.

I will consider it just as broad as the brush D.R. painted with.

Obama does appeal to the ivey league elite - professors because the majority of them favor socialism - marxism or basically anything but capitalism and democracy.

[FromWayDowntown]

I will consider it just as broad as the brush D.R. painted with.

Obama does appeal to the ivey league elite - professors because the majority of them favor socialism - marxism or basically anything but capitalism and democracy.

So wait, does Obama appeal to low information and uneducated voters? or to highly educated and highly informed voters?

[Shastafarian]

So wait, does Obama appeal to low information and uneducated voters? or to highly educated and highly informed voters?

Since he's gonna win in a landslide, it must be both.


Couldn't resist.

[ChumpDumper]

implacable has the numbers to back his contentions up, of course.

[implacable44]

So wait, does Obama appeal to low information and uneducated voters? or to highly educated and highly informed voters?

No he appeals to the social elite liberal left - professors and those who want Socialism and definitely to those less educated -- uninformed voters who are looking for a handout and for the government to provide for them -- which sadly in these united states is a HUGE number.

[Bartleby]

Why do you always capitalize socialism and capitalism?

[ChumpDumper]

We've been over this. Voters of every education level favor Obama -- but please, keep whining.

[FromWayDowntown]

No he appeals to the social elite liberal left - professors and those who want Socialism and definitely to those less educated -- uninformed voters who are looking for a handout and for the government to provide for them -- which sadly in these united states is a HUGE number.

So to those who have the most education and to those who have the least, right?

[implacable44]

Why do you always capitalize socialism and capitalism?

I dont. - punctuation is the least of my concerns - I can barely see this box I am typing in here at work -- gotta keep it small.

[implacable44]

We've been over this. Voters of every education level favor Obama -- but please, keep whining.

and voters of every education favor McCain. and D.R whined -- I just stated the same comment he did -- so I guess he was whining, Dung - so redirect your stupidity.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Obama does appeal to the ivey league elite - professors because the majority of them favor socialism - marxism or basically anything but capitalism and democracy.

Ivy league professors favor socialism and hate capitalism and democracy?? seriously, how full of shit do you have to be for it to be spilling out like that??

[implacable44]

How full of it do you have to be to think otherwise - check who was the largest donor to Obama ? - if memory serves three of the top 5 were universities - Harvard -- Cal and I forget the other one -- with Cal being #1

[ChumpDumper]

and voters of every education favor McCain.No, they don't. Voters of every education level favor Obama over McCain.

[ChumpDumper]

How full of it do you have to be to think otherwise - check who was the largest donor to Obama ? - if memory serves three of the top 5 were universities - Harvard -- Cal and I forget the other one -- with Cal being #1Please provide a link to this information about donors to the Obama campaign..

[DarkReign]

and voters of every education favor McCain. and D.R whined -- I just stated the same comment he did -- so I guess he was whining, Dung - so redirect your stupidity.

Huh? Does this make sense to you? Doesnt to me.

[DarkReign]

No, they don't. Voters of every education level favor Obama over McCain.

Seriously, implac, I remember this graph of ownage. The educated favor Obama far more than McCain. We concluded its because liberal college professors brainwash grown adults.

IIRC, the chart went waaaaaaaaay over to Obama when you got to PhD-level education. Something like 70-80% of doctorates, or something. Dont skewer me if I am off on that.

[implacable44]

Please provide a link to this information about donors to the Obama campaign..

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638

[implacable44]

Huh? Does this make sense to you? Doesnt to me.

D/R/ I posted my comment in response to you saying she appealed to "low information" voters.

and I am sure the PHD level chart does swing to Obama because that is the liberal elite - those who think the "common" man cannot make it - does not understand and so a decision must be made for him. My uncle has a PHd from Harvard and he is Mormon and the biggest democrat out there for that very reason -- that and he is pro choice... but he doesn't believe that those less educated fuly comprehend or are capable to make decisions.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

How full of it do you have to be to think otherwise - check who was the largest donor to Obama ? - if memory serves three of the top 5 were universities - Harvard -- Cal and I forget the other one -- with Cal being #1

so now donating to Obama means you're a socialist and against capitalism and democracy...

your douchebag-level just jumped up a few notches, congrats! :tu

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638US Government $400,819

:lol

[implacable44]

mmmhh -- not necessarily -- I mean you cn infer that I guess -- but I am not saying that. Who knows what Obama will do in office.. I am just saying and have said -- that his associations - his comments about the constitution and wealth redistribution would lead me to believe he doesn't like capitalism or democracy and favors socialism - so if that is douchebaggish then okay -- i guess so. Does that make you a tampon or a maxi pad?

[FromWayDowntown]

Polling data by Education Level (http://www.gallup.com/poll/108043/Candidate-Support-Education.aspx)

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/Electiondemo6.gif

[MaNuMaNiAc]

mmmhh -- not necessarily -- I mean you cn infer that I guess -- but I am not saying that. Who knows what Obama will do in office.. I am just saying and have said -- that his associations - his comments about the constitution and wealth redistribution would lead me to believe he doesn't like capitalism or democracy and favors socialism - so if that is douchebaggish then okay -- i guess so. Does that make you a tampon or a maxi pad?

I asked you if you believed that Ivy League proffessors are socialists and hate capitalism and democracy, you replied that how could I not, if I had seen who Obama's main campaign donators were. In other words, either you believe that donating to Obama's campaign makes you a socialist and both anti-capitalism and democracy, or you quite simply need to learn how to express yourself better.

To put it more succinctly, you're either a douchebag, or have a communication impediment.

[implacable44]

Polling data by Education Level (http://www.gallup.com/poll/108043/Candidate-Support-Education.aspx)

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/Electiondemo6.gif

who did they poll ? how many people ? how many were registered democrats? where were they polled ( state-- city --???) age??

[ChumpDumper]

Voters of every education level favor Obama over McCain.


Polling data by Education Level (http://www.gallup.com/poll/108043/Candidate-Support-Education.aspx)I knew someone would look it up again. Thanks.

I also knew someone would try to question the poll. :lol

[Bartleby]

who did they poll ? how many people ? how many were registered democrats? where were they polled ( state-- city --???) age??

Probably a few people sitting in coffee shops in Cambridge.

[LnGrrrR]

Probably a few people sitting in coffee shops in Cambridge.

Of all pollers, I think Pew is the best. I've read their reports for a long while, and I don't think you'll see many (mainstream) conservatives argue that they are partisan.