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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Mavericks Nov. 4



timvp
11-05-2008, 08:32 AM
Hoping for their first victory of the season, the San Antonio Spurs had their hopes smashed by the Dallas Mavericks on Tuesday night in the AT&T Center. Losing by a final score of 98-81, the Spurs struggled to even keep it competitive for most of the contest.

San Antonio’s only run in the second half came courtesy of rookie point guard George Hill. Starting with about nine and a half minutes to go in the fourth quarter, he scored six points in the span of about two minutes to cut the deficit to seven points. But the Mavs once again awoke and soon after put the game out of reach.

The Mavs, playing the night after getting embarrassed by the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Dallas, played with much more desperation and energy than the Spurs. Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry and Josh Howard all played very well. Jason Kidd was all over the floor for Dallas and hurt the Spurs in just about every way possible. The game was very reminiscent of the Game 7 the two teams played in the 2006 playoffs, however these Mavs put the Spurs out of their misery in the fourth quarter.

For the Spurs, 0-3 is definitely disappointing. It’s easy to say the Spurs will bounce back but this game was a step in the wrong direction. The first two games were at least competitive, while this affair was a total domination for most of the 48 minutes.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
40 minutes, 19 points, 15 rebounds, two assists
8-for-15 from the field, 3-for-6 at the line

After two stellar games offensively, Tim Duncan came back down to earth. The Mavs defended him well but he also helped by missing a few shots he usually makes. Defensively, Duncan was a bit better than his first two contests of the year. He was much more active on the boards and picked up his first blocked shot of the season. While Duncan wasn’t great, he actually played well enough for the Spurs to win. Going forward, he’s going to have to figure out a way to get his teammates going offensively and become even more of an anchor defensively.
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Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
29 minutes, 22 points, three assists, three turnovers
8-for-15 from the field, 5-for-5 at the line

Tony Parker didn’t produce at the needed level. For the second time in three games, Parker struggled mightily in the first quarter to hit his shots. He did a good job of regrouping and scored well the final three quarters, but the game was out of hand by the time Parker found his stroke. For the Spurs to win games, Parker needs to come out of the game producing right away. If he’s not creating offense one way or another, the Spurs simply don’t have the personnel to make up for it.
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Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
12 minutes, five points, two rebounds
2-for-3 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers

Another game, another unavailable conclusion regarding whether Bruce Bowen has anything left in the tank. Bowen actually played relatively well offensively, but he produced his third consecutive poor defensive showing. He had the task of slowing Terry for most of his minutes and his simply did not do so. Uncharacteristically, he was slow to fight through screens and didn’t do a good job of staying in front of him. The only good news, if you can call it that, is Bowen has never defended Terry that well. So again, we are left with more questions than answers. However, Bowen left the game with four minutes to go in the second quarter and never saw the court again. Perhaps the coaching staff has come to some sort of conclusion – or they could have simply wanted more offense on the court.
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Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
27 minutes, three points, five rebounds
1-for-6 from the field, 1-for-3 on three-pointers, 0-for-2 at the line

The Spurs needed some offense out of Michael Finley against his former team but Finley didn’t provide much of anything. In the first two games, I thought he had better than usual shot selection. This contest, he hoisted some ill-advised attempts and generally appeared to be forcing the issue. I thought he competed well defensively but the results were lacking. Finley started the second half at small forward and stayed at that position for the rest of the game, which we might see a lot more of depending on Bowen’s future.
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Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
20 minutes, five rebounds
0-for-5 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers

Matt Bonner started at center for the second straight game and didn’t help much at all. Defensively, he was simply no match for Nowitzki, who is too long and too talented for Bonner. Although he didn’t play horrible on defense, he was ineffective. On the other end of the court, Bonner putting up a goose egg in 20 minutes accounted for some of the offensive troubles for the Spurs on this night. Bonner did pull down three offensive rebounds, so it wasn’t a total disaster.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
30 minutes, 11 points, two assists, two rebounds, two steals
4-for-8 from the field, 2-for-4 on three-pointers

Roger Mason, Jr. was a beacon of hope for the third straight game. Offensively, he gave the Spurs a few moments of life. Though he didn’t shoot lights out and he did have a couple of ugly turnovers, San Antonio is functioning much better offensively when he’s on the court. He started the second half and Mason continues on the path of earning more and more minutes as the season goes along. Defensively, he had both good moments and poor moments but overall he appears to be picking up the schemes quite well.
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Ime Udoka
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3501.jpg
17 minutes, one point, four rebounds
0-for-4 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers

After last game, I praised Ime Udoka for having good shot selection. In this game, that aspect of his game regressed and he ended forcing most of his shots. When he plays too hurriedly on offense, he tends to break the rhythm of the entire offense. Compounding issues on this night for Udoka was his very pedestrian defense. Usually you can count on him having a positive affect on that end of the court but that was not the case tonight. On the whole, this was a very forgettable game for Udoka.
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George Hill
http://www.iupuijags.com/images/2007/12/12/player_hill.jpg
16 minutes, 11 points, one assist, one steal
3-for-7 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers, 4-for-4 at the line

If you are looking for something positive to take from this drubbing, look no further than the play of George Hill. The rookie out of IUPUI performed quite well in his NBA debut. After sitting out due to a thumb injury, Hill almost instantly showed why the Spurs were so high on him following the draft. The two aspects of his game that stand out when you first watch him play are his composure and his defense. While his point guard skills are a work in progress, he has improved greatly from his summer league showing and actually ran the team pretty well against the Mavs. Defensively, he’s extremely long and very active. Hill is also fearless on that end of the court, which was apparent when he hounded both Kidd and Terry relentlessly. Add in the fact that he looks like he has the potential to be a more than a capable scorer on the NBA level and there’s a good chance he won the backup point guard job on this night.
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Fabricio Oberto
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3988.jpg
14 minutes, two points
1-for-1 from the field

It was good to see Fabricio Oberto back on the court after missing the first two games due to a heart condition. Oberto was obviously rusty and didn’t play too well. Going without a rebound in his 14 minutes hurt the Spurs, although he was chasing around Nowitzki for a portion of his minutes so he wasn’t always in the paint. I expect Oberto to play much better after he shakes off the rust.
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Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
12 minutes, one assist
0-for-1 from the field

After not playing at all in the first three quarters, Kurt Thomas played the entire fourth quarter. That said, he was hardly noticeable even when he was in the game. He handed out an assist within the first few moments of the quarter but then did literally nothing else. No points, no rebounds … not even a foul. Over the course of the first three games of the season, Thomas has looked like a player who has reached the end of the line in his career. He’s not moving well, doesn’t appear to be in great shape and doesn’t even seem capable of helping out unless he’s defending a large, immobile player. Hopefully he snaps out of this funk or else the Spurs just gave an $8 million contract to a player who won’t be able to be much more than an end of the bench spot player.
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Desmon Farmer
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/p-farmer2.jpg
12 minutes, three points, one rebound
1-for-2 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers

Desmon Farmer played better than he did in his Spurs debut, however he still needs to play with more aggression. Farmer is put into the game to score the ball but he hasn’t taken advantage of his green light nearly enough. He hit a big three-pointer in the fourth quarter to help ignite the team’s run but that was about all he did in his 12 minutes of action.
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Jacque Vaughn
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3195.jpg
Ten minutes, four points, one assist rebound
2-for-5 from the field

Jacque Vaughn didn’t play horribly but he likely saw the end of his run as the backup point guard. Hill came in and showed qualities that Vaughn simply doesn’t have. Expect Vaughn to play as the third point guard once again from here on out – unless Hill hits a rookie wall at some point.
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Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

In the first two games, I thought Pop coached decently well. In this game, I wasn’t nearly as happy with Pop. First of all, starting the game off with Bonner on Nowitzki was a joke. That’s asking the impossible from Bonner and when that matchup was exploited by Dallas, the rest of the defense broke down when attempting to send help. I also don’t know what Pop was thinking by playing Duncan 40 minutes in such a lopsided game, especially when the Spurs are playing a back-to-back contest the next night. Thirdly, with the way Hill played late in the game, it would have been nice for Pop to put him in earlier. And finally, while I realize Bonner is still adjusting to time spent outside of the doghouse, Oberto is rusty and Thomas is on life support, Pop has to figure out a way to get production from a bigman on the roster not named Tim Duncan.
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Offense
The offense wasn’t a major problem in either of the first two games. In this third game, offense was a major issue. The Spurs scored only 16 points in the first quarter and never had a quarter in which they scored over 23 points. For the game, the Spurs shot only 41.7% from the field and missed 13 of their 20 three-point attempts. Most of the problem is the team is playing with a lack of purpose on the offensive end. Instead of attacking, they are waiting around for one player to try to carry the entire scoring burden. A more desperate and aggressive mindset would help the Spurs on the offensive end.

Defense
Plainly said, the defense was horrible. The Mavs exposed most of the holes in the defense on their way to shooting a scorching 53.1% from the field. The lack of a mobile big next to Duncan is so very noticeable. Nowtizki had all he could eat on the offensive end. When the Mavs got into the lane, they did so without fear of a shotblocker coming over to help. Bowen didn’t play at his expected level out on the perimeter either, which trickled down to everybody else. Instead of defending, the Spurs were basically just chasing the Mavs around the court aimlessly. To compound issues, the rebounding was once again poor as the Mavs outrebounded the Spurs 45-34.

Drive to Five
At 0-3, while hope isn’t lost, some sort of change is needed. Personally, I think that change should be even more minutes for Mason and also giving Hill the backup point guard job. Mason gives the Spurs life offensively and is also playing relatively well defensively, while Hill is needed to supply more scoring and more pressure on defense. I’m not ready to give up on Bowen yet but that situation definitely needs to be watched closely. While the offense certainly isn’t flowing perfectly, most of the problems are due to the liberal defense the Spurs are employing. There is virtually no backbone to speak of right now on that end of the court. Can we as Spurs fans expect the Spurs to bounce back? Yes we can. Although the Spurs really do need to go into Minnesota on Wednesday night and come away with a victory to stop this ship from taking on even more water.

Believe.

hater
11-05-2008, 08:54 AM
Kidd was the reason we got killed. He owned the entire Spurs team.

Dayum. I don't expect Kidd to play like that in a playoff series. But last night, he destroyed us.

Lebowski Brickowski
11-05-2008, 08:58 AM
Finley started the second half at small forward and stayed at that position for the rest of the game, which we might see a lot more of depending on Bowen’s future.

God help us all.

Lebowski Brickowski
11-05-2008, 08:58 AM
and to think -- we coulda had Matt Barnes for scratch.

pauls931
11-05-2008, 09:09 AM
and to think -- we coulda had Matt Barnes for scratch.

No thanks, we need the attitude.

SpursFanFirst
11-05-2008, 09:14 AM
Is that a mugshot for Hill? :lol
I am so glad he did well in his first NBA game! Hopefully this will continue, and all the people who doubted him because he came from a little known Indiana school will see why the Spurs liked him so much. The flashiest and most well-known players aren't always the best bets. Who better to understand this than Spurs fans?

And Mason continues to impress me. I cannot believe how quickly he's picked up the system. I can't think of the last time a player has walked right into the team and done so well right from the get-go.

LEONARD
11-05-2008, 09:15 AM
Great Game!!

BELIEVE

yavozerb
11-05-2008, 09:22 AM
Pop, please call portland today and trade Bowen for outlaw...both contracts are the same and the blazers get some much needed experience.

century
11-05-2008, 09:27 AM
The Lakers are gonna rape the Spurs. 50 points or so...

gingerwave
11-05-2008, 09:32 AM
The Lakers are gonna rape the Spurs. 50 points or so...
The lakers are going to use a sandpaper condom on the Spurs. Won't be pretty

Killakobe81
11-05-2008, 09:48 AM
The lakers are going to use a sandpaper condom on the Spurs. Won't be pretty

I would't got that far i still respect the Spurs

Indazone
11-05-2008, 09:53 AM
Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
20 minutes, five rebounds
0-for-5 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers

Why is this guy even in the NBA?

tlongII
11-05-2008, 09:55 AM
Good takes timvp. Especially on Popovich. I can't believe he played Duncan 40 minutes either. Duncan is playing WAY too much early in the season and imo is an injury waiting to happen.

Obstructed_View
11-05-2008, 10:29 AM
Seemed like Duncan spent almost no time in the post.

Cant_Be_Faded
11-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Duncan's minutes alarm me as well, but you have to realize what other option do we have? We heard about how he had to pick up the slack with Manu gone. Now the Scola/Splitter/Ian/Gist/Bonner woes come really in to play.

wildchild
11-05-2008, 10:51 AM
In the first two games, I thought Pop coached decently well. In this game, I wasn’t nearly as happy with Pop. First of all, starting the game off with Bonner on Nowitzki was a joke. That’s asking the impossible from Bonner and when that matchup was exploited by Dallas, the rest of the defense broke down when attempting to send help. I also don’t know what Pop was thinking by playing Duncan 40 minutes in such a lopsided game, especially when the Spurs are playing a back-to-back contest the next night. Thirdly, with the way Hill played late in the game, it would have been nice for Pop to put him in earlier. And finally, while I realize Bonner is still adjusting to time spent outside of the doghouse, Oberto is rusty and Thomas is on life support, Pop has to figure out a way to get production from a bigman on the roster not named Tim Duncan.

Believe.

I disagree. Even if Oberto is rusty, Bonner isn't the best option.
Pop opened the second half with Mason and Oberto in the lineup and I think Oberto frustrated Nowitzki a bit tonight on defense more than Bonner.
So, why the hell Pop chose him to do the job against Dirk? A guy like Bonner as starter in the preseason and the start season?
Don't get me wrong. I like Bonner hustle but his D and O...last two games...C´mon.
The Spurs loss in the early minutes of the game 'cause the defense rotation of Bonner are awful.
With KT as starter I guess the lineup is too slow KT and Tim together, with Bonner we suck on D. C'mon Pop. If Ian isn't available yet, Oberto's the best option for now.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 11:04 AM
I wonder if Spurs have something in the tank.

They sure will be better, but chasing the record after February with the age and with last years experience is more then worrysome in an aspect that they won't be able to demonstrate their strong points being empty in the tank.

They need to work as hell to get to the point where they can play on equal basis with the best in the leauge.

They lost to Dallas, a Dallas team that was in a second game of b2b.
U kiddin?

The spurs won't panic, but if it matters when they don't have enough strenght to make something big happen.
It is not in previous years that spurs could just switch into a gear that could guarantee a win.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 11:14 AM
Fuck grammar

z0sa
11-05-2008, 11:29 AM
Bonner's D was badass, sadly Dirk makes us his bitch time and time and time ...

VaSpursFan
11-05-2008, 11:29 AM
hopefully pop realizes the talent he has on the bench. Hill needs more burn, Farmer needs to jack up more shorts because I sense the SJax fearlessness in him and Mason is just steady as hell. If we're going to fly under the radar until Manu returns, get these guys significant minutes on the court.

tav1
11-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Pop needs to play with the line-ups, starting with starting Mason and playing Tolliver instead of Bonner. Hill should be the first guard off the bench. I'd even consider starting Udoka over Bowen and Finley. Or, give Farmer extended as Mason's primary sub. I'm not saying these things will necessarily work, but now is the time to experiment.

I'm a long way from the panic button, but Pop needs to shake it up and find better court combinations. The new players don't know the system, but force-feeding them will help in the long term. I'd rather they get burn prior to Manu's return and the Spurs go 9-15 than overplaying vets early in the season.

mexicanjunior
11-05-2008, 11:38 AM
Good read as always...I do like how well Mason is playing. Eventhough I wasn't a huge fan of drafting Hill, I like his agressive approach to the game. It was a refreshing change of pace after seeing Vaugh just play the caretaker role while giving Parker some rest.

timvp
11-05-2008, 11:40 AM
Tonight's game against the Timberwolves won't give us any answers regarding Bowen. They don't have anyone for him to be tested against.

But then the next five games should give us an idea where Bowen stands. In that stretch, Bowen will face Dwyane Wade, Jamal Crawford, Michael Redd, Tracy McGrady and Kevin Martin. After those five games, we'll know whether Bowen is done or whether he can still be a shutdown defender.

Expect to see small ball tonight, especially considering that the T'Wolves are starting Gomes at power forward. If that start that lineup again, I actually wouldn't be against just starting Udoka at power forward.

tlongII
11-05-2008, 11:45 AM
What will be telling about tonight's game is how much Duncan plays. Al Jefferson is a BIG TIME low post player and they have Kevin Love coming off the bench. The T-Wolves have the capacity to inflict some serious damage on the Spurs in the frontcourt.

timvp
11-05-2008, 11:45 AM
Duncan's minutes alarm me as well, but you have to realize what other option do we have?Just play Duncan regular minutes. The Spurs were playing bad with or without him on the court. Losing by 17 with Duncan playing 40 minutes is probably even worse than losing by 27 and Duncan playing 32 minutes.


I disagree.I didn't see anything you disagreed with me on.

Harry Callahan
11-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Good takes timvp. Especially on Popovich. I can't believe he played Duncan 40 minutes either. Duncan is playing WAY too much early in the season and imo is an injury waiting to happen.

You mean like oden who has played 13 regular minutes in the last year?

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 11:47 AM
Drive to Five
At 0-3, while hope isn’t lost, some sort of change is needed. Personally, I think that change should be even more minutes for Mason and also giving Hill the backup point guard job. Mason gives the Spurs life offensively and is also playing relatively well defensively, while Hill is needed to supply more scoring and more pressure on defense. I’m not ready to give up on Bowen yet but that situation definitely needs to be watched closely. While the offense certainly isn’t flowing perfectly, most of the problems are due to the liberal defense the Spurs are employing. There is virtually no backbone to speak of right now on that end of the court. Can we as Spurs fans expect the Spurs to bounce back? Yes we can. Although the Spurs really do need to go into Minnesota on Wednesday night and come away with a victory to stop this ship from taking on even more water.

Believe.

I agree with you whole heartedly there.

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-05-2008, 11:52 AM
When Tony and Tim are average this team is not very good. The Spurs are clearly suffering with Manu being out, but even at that I was hoping for no worse than .500 ball while we adjust to life without him. We can't win without others stepping up.

I keep hoping KT is just hurt, because he's playing well below my expectations for him. Bonner is awful. Our frontcourt right now, if you remove Timmy, is the worst in the league, and that's obviously what's killing us in these games.

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 11:54 AM
Well, I know I saw Tolliver behind the bench. Any idea if he will be playing against the T'Wolves tonight? If he does, at least he is more athletic than Bonner. :lol

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-05-2008, 11:55 AM
I agree with Timvp that playing Duncan 40 minutes in a game like this was a mistake. Wearing him out at the beginning of the season goes against the philosophy of this team, and hasn't produced a win yet.

duncan228
11-05-2008, 11:56 AM
Well, I know I saw Tolliver behind the bench. Any idea if he will be playing against the T'Wolves tonight?

Everything I'm finding says he's "Projected Inactive".

tav1
11-05-2008, 11:57 AM
According to Hollinger's team stats, the Spurs are the worst defensive team in basketball right now. They're the second best offensive team.

leemajors
11-05-2008, 12:03 PM
tolliver hasn't been with the team for a while, i doubt he steps in and plays. maybe in a week or so after he gets back into it. but i hope i'm wrong.

timvp
11-05-2008, 12:05 PM
When Tony and Tim are average this team is not very good. The Spurs are clearly suffering with Manu being out, but even at that I was hoping for no worse than .500 ball while we adjust to life without him. We can't win without others stepping up.As great of a player as I think Manu is, I'm not too sure the Spurs still wouldn't be 0-3 with Manu in the lineup. The biggest problem the first three games has been defense. With Bowen playing the worst basketball of his Spurs career and absolutely no resistance at the rim, I'm not sure the Spurs could win games right now if both Manu and LeBron were added to the perimeter rotation.


I keep hoping KT is just hurt, because he's playing well below my expectations for him. Bonner is awful. Our frontcourt right now, if you remove Timmy, is the worst in the league, and that's obviously what's killing us in these games.True. When Roger Mason, Jr. is leading your team in blocked shots, you know something is terribly wrong. Either one of the bigs needs to step up or Mahinmi or Tolliver need to come to the rescue.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:05 PM
Tolliver is not a savior ...

Pop will have to decrease Tims minutes and he knows it. Maybe he trying to figure who is the best with Tim on the floor - that's why Tim needs to be on the court so many minutes so early in the season.
His minutes will drop at some point of a season so I hold myself to worry about that right now.

Bowen - the Bowen case might be a diferent. Bowen maybe knows he can't handle all 82 games of a season. That's why he is not giving maximum effort and can be out of perfect shape right now. He maybe is preparing himself for last 3 months of a season.
I don't know. But he regressed dramaticly.

Next 5 games the answer?

What will Pop do?

there was a great record in Bruce starting every game. Pop putted him in every game last season even when he did not want him to play (at the end). So I wonder if Bowen wil go to the bench this year. Pop in some cases is really stubborn

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 12:08 PM
Well, I think Pop should start Mason for Finley, and have Hill give it a shot as backup PG for the game against the Wolves. I would probably also have Udoka start in place of Bowen or Bonner. Especially if the Wolves want to play small.

After all, Pop does seem to be interested in playing with the lineups. Maybe this will shake something loose.

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 12:10 PM
Everything I'm finding says he's "Projected Inactive".

Thanks!! :toast

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:10 PM
btw. I said that Hill must to be a backup PG, if not spurs would be in a deep shieyit.

It seems that he will be right there.

So now we need to think about other stuff, like froncourt or swings.

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 12:15 PM
btw. I said that Hill must to be a backup PG, if not spurs would be in a deep shieyit.

It seems that he will be right there.

So now we need to think about other stuff, like froncourt or swings.

I always have trouble with the front court rotations. It is especially difficult since I still have yet to see what Mahinmi can bring. The Spurs really lack a big who can play "above the rim" on a consistent basis. I have watched a couple D-League games and saw that Mahinmi does have the athleticism that the Spurs seem to lack in the frontcourt. I am highly optimistic about him and have been ever since I saw him play against the Bucks last year. He was a dunking machine.

duncan228
11-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Post game interviews. Duncan: "Luckily Playoffs don't start anytime soon."

http://www.nba.com/video/teams/spurs/2008/11/05/081104_gd.nba/index.html?player=team&q=SAS

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:21 PM
Spurs are lacking stellar squad.

I mean they need to have 5 guys (starters) plus 4 bench pleyers which can provide punch.
Spurs rotation sucks, we have no idea what a certain player can bring. We are only hoping that player A can bring this and player B can bring that. so it not helping and Pop also is unsure of his bench players. Having 10 equal guys is worst then having 3 great bench players and 7 below average.

ALAMO_DEFENSE
11-05-2008, 12:26 PM
Bonner is republican? He is supposed to be out with Bush administration. Sending him to Guantanamo military base in Cuba will be a great idea.

td4mvp21
11-05-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm just wondering why the defense is so terrible. It just sucks and there has been no improvement over the past three games. Is Pop even addressing it?

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:33 PM
Post game interviews. Duncan: "Luckily Playoffs don't start anytime soon."

http://www.nba.com/video/teams/spurs/2008/11/05/081104_gd.nba/index.html?player=team&q=SAS


Thanks

:lol

Anybody counted how many Times Tim said umm in that interview?

I bet it was 21 times :)

timvp
11-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Post game interviews. Duncan: "Luckily Playoffs don't start anytime soon."

http://www.nba.com/video/teams/spurs/2008/11/05/081104_gd.nba/index.html?player=team&q=SASThanks for the link. I like the attitude coming from Mason and Hill. Plus Pop looks ready to implode, which is good.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Is implode an opposition to explode?

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Well, it isn't like the Spurs defense is absolutely terrible. They seem to be sagging into the lane alot more, and I am thinking it is because of the lack of big men. Everyone on the perimeter seems to be quite coy about applying defensive pressure because they are afraid of foul trouble and giving more problems to the Spurs interior. It is something that I believe only time and good healing can fix.

Whisky Dog
11-05-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm just wondering why the defense is so terrible. It just sucks and there has been no improvement over the past three games. Is Pop even addressing it?

Front. Court.

No one to guard the paint effectively with no mobile bigs to play next to Timmy means no interior defense.

Mahinmi is going to have to bring that presence in the front court and Tolliver is going to have to take Bonner's minutes and produce so the Spurs can go with a rotation of Tim, Oberto, Mahinmi, and Tolliver with KT getting some spot minutes against guys he matches up with.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Is implode an opposition to explode?

I've checked.

It's like in polish

xellos88330
11-05-2008, 12:43 PM
:flag: Well guys I am out. Cyall after the game tonight. :flag:

duncan228
11-05-2008, 01:06 PM
Thanks

:lol

Anybody counted how many Times Tim said umm in that interview?

I bet it was 21 times :)

I stopped counting the umm's long ago. It's how he talks. :lol


Thanks for the link. I like the attitude coming from Mason and Hill. Plus Pop looks ready to implode, which is good.

I felt better after hearing it. They're playing lousy and they know it. No excuses and hopefully the right attitude to address it. I've got no problem with them figuring it out, as long as we see the effort and not just hear about it. I hope we see Pop respond tonight.

It was frustrating last night, the link was to the Sun's post game from opening night. I was surprised at how long it took them to correct it.

temujin
11-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Watched only the first half.
Terrible defense by most players, except Mason.
Bowen was a ghost.
Bonner was not even close to bother Nowitski.
No hustle, no fouls.
It looked like a pre-season.

On the offense, a lot of people standing and watching.
Little circulation, lots of forced shots.

Quite a few outright bricks from JV, Bonner and Udoka.

Finley even missed 2 FTs in a row. Enough said.

It might not be a bad idea to give more minutes to the newcomers,
so that the old guard doesn't get too much exposed.

Overall, Spurs should hope for .500 while Manu is out.

SenorSpur
11-05-2008, 01:21 PM
Great takes by Tiimvp, as always.

There are several concerns, just pick one.


Bruce Bowen
Another game, another unavailable conclusion regarding whether Bruce Bowen has anything left in the tank. Bowen actually played relatively well offensively, but he produced his third consecutive poor defensive showing. He had the task of slowing Terry for most of his minutes and his simply did not do so. Uncharacteristically, he was slow to fight through screens and didn’t do a good job of staying in front of him. The only good news, if you can call it that, is Bowen has never defended Terry that well. So again, we are left with more questions than answers. However, Bowen left the game with four minutes to go in the second quarter and never saw the court again. Perhaps the coaching staff has come to some sort of conclusion – or they could have simply wanted more offense on the court.


The Hurricane watch is officially out for Bowen. This is not to say that he's done, but the climate and conditions are favorable for an eminent threat. Time will tell if this is a slump or slide. This is certainly no indictment on him. However, as I keep saying, what's more bothersome than anything about his situation is there is no other established perimeter defender on the roster. If Farmer is eventually cut when Manu return, it'll be interesting to see what direction Pop goes with that final roster spot. A perimeter defender to replace him (Hairston, Gelebale) or a big to help shore up the frontline (McDyess, Watkins)


Matt Bonner
Matt Bonner started at center for the second straight game and didn’t help much at all. Defensively, he was simply no match for Nowitzki, who is too long and too talented for Bonner. Although he didn’t play horrible on defense, he was ineffective. On the other end of the court, Bonner putting up a goose egg in 20 minutes accounted for some of the offensive troubles for the Spurs on this night. Bonner did pull down three offensive rebounds, so it wasn’t a total disaster.


Injuries to the frontline have obviously handcuffed Pop's options, which means extensive court time for Bonner. He is one of the few players on the team where extended court time means diminished returns. At this point, Bonner is what he is. We can only hope that Tolliver, once he gets back, will become productive enough to surpass him in the rotation.


Kurt Thomas
After not playing at all in the first three quarters, Kurt Thomas played the entire fourth quarter. That said, he was hardly noticeable even when he was in the game. He handed out an assist within the first few moments of the quarter but then did literally nothing else. No points, no rebounds … not even a foul. Over the course of the first three games of the season, Thomas has looked like a player who has reached the end of the line in his career. He’s not moving well, doesn’t appear to be in great shape and doesn’t even seem capable of helping out unless he’s defending a large, immobile player. Hopefully he snaps out of this funk or else the Spurs just gave an $8 million contract to a player who won’t be able to be much more than an end of the bench spot player.


Probably a bigger frontline concern for me more than Bonner (whom I have no expectations) or Oberto (who I just want to be healthy) is KT. I cannot believe he looks this bad so quickly. If the hurricane watch is out on Bowen, the hurricane warning is now issued for KT - meaning there is an eminent certainty that he's finished. It's even harder for me to believe that the Spurs offered up and wasted a 1st round pick on him. KT looks like Horry did at this point last year - DONE. If KT is unable to provide any production, this will have been one of the worst trades in Spurs history. It's certainly trumps the infamous NVE acquisition, whom they signed in free agency. Ian where are you when we need you most?


Jacque Vaughn
Jacque Vaughn didn’t play horribly but he likely saw the end of his run as the backup point guard. Hill came in and showed qualities that Vaughn simply doesn’t have. Expect Vaughn to play as the third point guard once again from here on out – unless Hill hits a rookie wall at some point.

It looks to be the end of the line for Vaughn too. His play is consistent - consistently bad. He needs to give way to Hill, effective immediately and should only see court time in blowout situations.

Overall, if you throw in Finley, the Spurs have five roster spots (Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn and KT), where they are currently getting little to no production out of. Roster spots that have been critical to Pop's current rotation during this horrific start. It's no wonder the Spurs are 0-3. If this trend continues, Pop may be forced to rework his entire rotation on the fly, and inject it with the younger players and live with the results.

MoSpur
11-05-2008, 01:26 PM
Less of Bowen, Bonner, Vaughn, and Finley. More of Mason, Farmer, Hill and when available more of Tolliver.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 01:29 PM
I stopped counting the umm's long ago. It's how he talks. :lol

Yup, umm I'm catching myself on that. It does not sounds in polish as good as in english but I use it when I'm speaking polish as well :)

urunobili
11-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Overall, if you throw in Finley, the Spurs have four roster spots (Bowen, Finley, Bonner and KT), where they are currently getting little to no production out of. Roster spots that have been critical to Pop's current rotation during this horrific start. It's no wonder the Spurs are 0-3. If this trend continues, Pop may be forced to rework his entire rotation on the fly, and inject it with the younger players and live with the results.

Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto and specially KT are giving us ZERO, NADA offensive production... all of them are expendable IMO

SenorSpur
11-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Bowen, Finley, Bonner, Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto and specially KT are giving us ZERO, NADA offensive production... all of them are expendable IMO

Right there you have the source of the Spurs offensive woes. Their negligible contributions have forced Tony and TD to have to carry the offensive burden each and every game. They cannot afford to have a bad game. The way this thing is currently setup, it's starting to stink. Pop better get Mason and Hill acclimated - FAST!

Spurs Brazil
11-05-2008, 01:40 PM
I still think Bruce can give us something but I'm sure Thomas is done.

I hope Pop plays Ian when he's healthy

Hill must be the backup PG tonight

Flux451
11-05-2008, 01:57 PM
Do yall feel the unit that brought the surge should stayed in?

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 02:00 PM
If Bowen will be as bad as he is right now. IT IS OVER.
He almost single covered all opposite teams best scorers and most dangerous permeter players. Spurs defense standed on TD and him. Not having Bowen there will change the philosphy and weaken the foundation of a D.

SpursFanFirst
11-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a competitive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode. At this point, he isn't concerned with winning, but rather figuring out which combination is going to be best a little later in the year?
A huge section of the team is new (and young). Now's the time to experiment since it's still so early.
I'm not into hitting the panic button yet. Now, if we don't win a game until December..yeah, I'll start questioning everything Spurs...until then though, I totally trust the future Hall-of-Famer known as Gregg Popovich.

polandprzem
11-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a competitive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode. At this point, he isn't concerned with winning, but rather figuring out which combination is going to be best a little later in the year?
A huge section of the team is new (and young). Now's the time to experiment since it's still so early.
I'm not into hitting the panic button yet. Now, if we don't win a game until December..yeah, I'll start questioning everything Spurs...until then though, I totally trust the future Hall-of-Famer known as Gregg Popovich.

Spurs can't afford to drop from the ladder

Especialy in the West


man they need to start climbing the ladder

temujin
11-05-2008, 02:18 PM
The oldies played like they take it for granted that Spurs WILL make the playoffs.
Even Duncan's statements hints in this direction.

Wrong.

Four oldies -Thomas, Finley, Bowen and Oberto- are probably too much for a contender.

You need two maximum, playing no more than 20'.

Obstructed_View
11-05-2008, 02:38 PM
Well, it isn't like the Spurs defense is absolutely terrible.
Yes, it is. It absolutely is. It completely, totally and in all other ways is terrible.

Amuseddaysleeper
11-05-2008, 02:40 PM
Obviously, the regular has started, so we need to be in a competitive mode with our eye on the playoffs....but...
Is it possible that, with our roster now set, Pop is still kind of in pre-season mode.

Playing TD 40 minutes a night is not preseason mode.

It's a sign of desperation when you have no front line, and virtually no team outside of TD and TP.


I just pray that Pop has the heart to bench Finley if need be. I already respect Pop for cutting Bruce's minutes if he isn't playing up to par.

SpursFanFirst
11-05-2008, 02:44 PM
Playing TD 40 minutes a night is not preseason mode.

It's a sign of desperation when you have no front line, and virtually no team outside of TD and TP.

...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

Manufan909
11-05-2008, 02:45 PM
I know Farmer will get another chance tonight, and this time he needs to emulate Hill, even on O. Hill's a fucking rookie and he's drove twice, Farmer is the leading D-League scorer, and all he can do is catch the ball and shoot a perimeter 3. Pop needs to limit Finleys and JVs minutes like he's done with Bowen. If they do play small ball, then that won't work. At least that'll mean less Bonner.

Amuseddaysleeper
11-05-2008, 02:47 PM
...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

lol no. You don't kill your superstar for the sake of combinations, you play him to get the W. If Pop wants to experiment he should play his young bunch as much as his veterans outside TD and TP.

Hopefully a win tonight will get us back on track.

Manufan909
11-05-2008, 02:48 PM
...OR...is he playing Timmy 40 minutes a night so he has time to try combinations with Tim in them - see who works with him and who doesn't?

No, it's desperation. There are still only 3 bigs, Bonner+KT make one. Hopefully Tolliver can make it 4, not 3.5. I know Tolliver can rebound and get steals, which automatically makes him better than Bonner.

Was it just me, or did Tony seem tired? He shot WAYYYYYYYYYy too many jumpers. If they were going in I'd be cool, but all he did was miss unless he shot that one 3, or drove it.

xtremesteven33
11-05-2008, 02:48 PM
The Spurs lost to 3 Good teams!

they didnt lose to a bunch of scrubby teams. The Suns wanted to beat the Spurs really bad as some kind of retrebution for last year. We couldve won that had pop called a timeout maybe.

Portland is a talented team as well. They just outrebounded us plain and simple. No Oberto there to block out and rebound really hurt us.

And the Mavericks are a good team as well. you got about 3 potential allstars in KIDD,NOWITZKI, and HOWARD. here we are with only 2. and a bunch of new guys.

No way am i in panic mode just yet. Spurs are pissed off. The only thing that worries me is that Tim and Tony will carry a whole lot of minutes just to win a game now. hopefully pop can somehow manage to control thier minutes while managing to pull off victories.

I also love the lineup that Pop had last night of....
Parker
Hill
Mason
Duncan
Oberto/Thomas

hopefully we see more of that tonight

phxspurfan
11-05-2008, 02:53 PM
Spurs won't make the playoffs this year.

Chomag
11-05-2008, 03:05 PM
Great write up Timvp, thanks:toast
The thing that seems to trouble me the most is not the 0-3, although it does suck because in the west, even the 8th seed will need to have a staler winning year just to make the final cut in the playoffs..

Its more that I'm worried about TP and Timmy getting burnt out in about a month or so. More so Timmy though.

Great news to hear Hill still looking like he did in pre-season before his injury. I really am starting to fall in love with this kids game. I hope to see him break into the regular rotation because he could make an impact now.

I don't know but it truly might be time to do spring cleaning and throw out the old, used, washed up, or broken pieces, and do it now, and not when Tim is retiring, because with the right players contributing to rolls the big 3 still has some rings left in them.

galvatron3000
11-05-2008, 03:05 PM
Tim and Tony carry a loarge load because Pop has put too much faith in Mike Finley when Mason at this stage is just better. Mason should start and allow Farmer the green light off the bench. Finley is going to be great grooming the shooting guards but his time has past. He may have a few night on but not enough to keep him in the current rotation. We are getting killed on the glass and can't score so if you can't get Rodman atleast put the best players you have on the floor and see what develops. Finley won't even be there next year so try something else because this is not working.

I'm not panicking either but we aren't going to be a better rebounding club with what we have unless Ian plays and does it so with that question mark, go with what you know works. Mason does a great job on the floor and defensively so start him. You bring Farmer into the fold to provide a spark because "ball go in hole...muchly" then play that dude in that role because Manu is hurt, Finley is past his prime and that what you signed these guys for. This is about winning so check your ego at the door which is what was done when Fin was brought in, who knows him going to the bench maybe the best thing for him and the club, perhaps when he does play occassionally he will do a better job with limited minutes but as it stands now what he is doing with starter minutes won't cut it against the better team and I thought the Spurs would beat Dallas easily.

Allanon
11-05-2008, 05:21 PM
The losses haven't been that bad, they were against Playoff contenders. Last night's Mavs game was kind of embarrassing, I switched off it in the early 4th.

But what disturbs me most is the lack of Defense. Spurs are giving up 100 points per game, i believe they gave up something like 89 points per game last year.

And this isn't something that's fixed by Manu coming back. Manu would add scoring but he can't fix the defensive issues.

I believe this lack of D revolves around a couple of players:

1) Bowen. A wise man once said "Once father time catches you, he doesn't let go." I noticed he had lost a step last year in the WCF but it seems he's lost 3 steps more. How many times did JTerry waltz into the lane last night for a layup?

2) Kurt Thomas. Wow, this one took me by surprise, I thought KT would be serviceable this year but he looks like he's playing in mud. 50 year old Mutumbo is probably better.

3) Bonner never has and never will be a good defender.

4) I've never been high on Oberto, he's better than Bonner but that's about all I can say

People have said that Duncan's defense isn't that good this year, I think it's not so much about Timmy but the fact that he keeps having to pick up the defensive slack for the other Bigs. You've seen Duncan trying to knock some sense into Bonner when he blows his assignment and leaves Duncan out to dry.

All is not lost though, there's still Tolliver and Mahinmi waiting in the wings, we'll see if they can bring in some defense to the interior. I liked Watkins' D and energy in the pre-season and thought the Spurs should have kept him, instead of Tolliver, for that purpose.

The Truth #6
11-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Tim and Tony carry a loarge load because Pop has put too much faith in Mike Finley when Mason at this stage is just better. Mason should start and allow Farmer the green light off the bench. Finley is going to be great grooming the shooting guards but his time has past. He may have a few night on but not enough to keep him in the current rotation. We are getting killed on the glass and can't score so if you can't get Rodman atleast put the best players you have on the floor and see what develops. Finley won't even be there next year so try something else because this is not working.

I'm not panicking either but we aren't going to be a better rebounding club with what we have unless Ian plays and does it so with that question mark, go with what you know works. Mason does a great job on the floor and defensively so start him. You bring Farmer into the fold to provide a spark because "ball go in hole...muchly" then play that dude in that role because Manu is hurt, Finley is past his prime and that what you signed these guys for. This is about winning so check your ego at the door which is what was done when Fin was brought in, who knows him going to the bench maybe the best thing for him and the club, perhaps when he does play occassionally he will do a better job with limited minutes but as it stands now what he is doing with starter minutes won't cut it against the better team and I thought the Spurs would beat Dallas easily.

I agree with your analysis but I believe Finley signed a TWO YEAR contract when what he deserved was no contract.

Basically, the FO didn't know what to do so they retreated into what they thought was the safe move of bringing back the old guys, namely KT and Finley, however that really was a huge gamble considering their physical limitations.

They resigned KT because they had already given up a 1st rounder for him but they should have realized he wasn't going to fix our needs. It's possible he still could help but he looks to slow to do much and possibly too old to care. Because they see him everyday I would think they could have made a more educated assessment of that before giving him that contract.

As for Finley, I don't know what they were thinking. The guys tries, he's a pro, and does the best he can. However, he's too old and slow and never was much other than a scorer and now he's only a shooter who rarely shoots well.

When Hill and Farmer entered the game it was interesting to note how much faster we were at getting to loose balls, steals, and those sort of things.

Until Ian comes back I expect to see a lot of small ball with Ime trying to man up larger sized PFs and a variety of shooters surrounding Tim.

Farmer could have been more aggressive last night but I think it's clear that his strength is spot up shooting. He drove a few times in preseason but with mixed results. He clearly wanted the ball more last night when he was in but only got it once when he was actually open. I think they could have looked to get him the ball more, at least a little bit.

However, Hill was playing well so it was good to see him assert himself so quickly. The guy is an athlete and exactly what we need right now. He could be our only lock down defender on the team right now.

Obstructed_View
11-05-2008, 06:07 PM
People have said that Duncan's defense isn't that good this year, I think it's not so much about Timmy but the fact that he keeps having to pick up the defensive slack for the other Bigs. You've seen Duncan trying to knock some sense into Bonner when he blows his assignment and leaves Duncan out to dry.
At least Duncan has an excuse when Bonner's on the floor. Duncan hasn't done any better against Amare, Aldridge or Dirk than Bonner has. Duncan got a block last night, so now they're tied with one.