Fun With Maps

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

Most of us are familiar with the red state/blue state, or even the red county/blue county maps. One thing that is traditionally confusing about such maps is how red they are. When a nation is mostly half and half, how can there be so much red? While we know the obvious answer is that rural areas have more land, but fewer people and tend to all lean red, it still seems not to represent the popular vote that we see reflected by the numbers.

Well, this site (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emejn/election/2008/) has a guy who has worked out cartograms where the size of the land is adjusted in size to represent its population. He has also used shades of red and blue to make areas that are effectively even more purple.

2008 (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emejn/election/2008/countycartnonlin1024.png) shows a significant trend toward blue from the 2004 (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Emejn/election/2004/countycart3070large.png) cartogram.

The vascular symbolism in the images is also interesting to me. But I'm a geek that way.

[boutons_]

Here's another one:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/11/02/opinion/20081102_OPCHART.html

[RandomGuy]

Here's another one:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/11/02/opinion/20081102_OPCHART.html

Not much of a surprise there, if you think about the math.

Minimum number of congress members from any state is 3, so the smaller your population is compared to the minimum required for 4, the greater your vote counts.

On the other end are the really populous states. As the population gets larger, the more the proportion will resemble the number required for one seat in the house of representatives.

[baseline bum]

I like this map, since it doesn't take a black or white stance:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/countymappurpler1024.png

[tp2021]

2008 shows a significant trend toward blue from the 2004 cartogram.

The vascular symbolism in the images is also interesting to me. But I'm a geek that way.It looks like a liberal goo monster breaking out of a conservative web.

[Spurminator]

Some of those look like Rorschach tests.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/countycartnonlin384.png

It's the Dark Angel!

[DarrinS]

Texas should really be a separate country.

[MannyIsGod]

I like the ones on the Princeton election consortium better.

http://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/autographics/EV_map.png

[MannyIsGod]

My favorite map right now though is this one. It shows how much the counties shifted and in which direction. What do you think the areas in red have in common?

http://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/shift_nyt_08_04.png

[implacable44]

My favorite map right now though is this one. It shows how much the counties shifted and in which direction. What do you think the areas in red have in common?

http://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/shift_nyt_08_04.png

lots of mexicans ?

[implacable44]

all of this "data" is irrelevant. You all fail to consider the harsh truth - that conservatives had no vote. Lots of them stayed home. Added to which - the youth will grow up and get some values and morals and vote conservative - combined with the fact that the media pounded republican hate - republican blame for everything gone wrong with the country -- it was something like 90% positive reporting for the prez elect vs. 7% for Mcain.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, Mexicans dominate Arkansas, Oklahoma, Easter Texas, Louisiana and Appalachia.

[MannyIsGod]

all of this "data" is irrelevant. You all fail to consider the harsh truth - that conservatives had no vote. Lots of them stayed home. Added to which - the youth will grow up and get some values and morals and vote conservative - combined with the fact that the media pounded republican hate - republican blame for everything gone wrong with the country -- it was something like 90% positive reporting for the prez elect vs. 7% for Mcain.


:lmao

[baseline bum]

all of this "data" is irrelevant. You all fail to consider the harsh truth - that conservatives had no vote. Lots of them stayed home. Added to which - the youth will grow up and get some values and morals and vote conservative - combined with the fact that the media pounded republican hate - republican blame for everything gone wrong with the country -- it was something like 90% positive reporting for the prez elect vs. 7% for Mcain.

Or maybe the youth is growing up and fed up with your right wing dogma.

[implacable44]

Or maybe the youth is growing up and fed up with your right wing dogma.

I would love to see similar maps with breakdowns - after say FDR - Hoover - Carter -- Reagan -- Clinton -

[boutons_]

"it was something like 90% positive reporting for the prez elect vs. 7% for Mcain."

Nearly all of that was due to Obama running a positive campaign, and McNasty running a character-assassination campaign, full of lies that even the timid media called him on eventually.

When he started lying, the media were being balanced by giving his lies the benefit of the doubt. His lying became so egregious the media turned on him.

[DarrinS]

My favorite map right now though is this one. It shows how much the counties shifted and in which direction. What do you think the areas in red have in common?

http://election.princeton.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/shift_nyt_08_04.png


I don't know -- what do they have in common?

[MannyIsGod]

They're obviously filled with people making over 250k who were afraid of Obama's future tax policies.

Obviously.

[DarrinS]

They're obviously filled with people making over 250k who were afraid of Obama's future tax policies.

Obviously.

:lmao

[Viva Las Espuelas]

They're obviously filled with people making over 250k who were afraid of Obama's future tax policies.

Obviously.
are serious?

[MannyIsGod]

are serious?

Maybe I am, Maybe I'm not. :downspin:


Do you have an opinion on why republican voting in these areas went up while it went down in the rest of the country? Are they simply more Pro America?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Maybe I am, Maybe I'm not. :downspin:


Do you have an opinion on why republican voting in these areas went up while it went down in the rest of the country? Are they simply more Pro America?
i really don't know why. one thing i would like to know is what the percentage of straight ticket voting was according to both parties. for this and the 2006 election. personally i think everyone is on the bushbash bus. i'm no hardcore supporter of him though or the republican party. if you screw up, you screw up. i'll leave the pro-american judgement up to you and the like.

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously there was a lot of sentiment to vote against Bush in the nation and that is one of the leading reasons the nation as a whole voted strongly for the democratic candidate and why their share of the vote went up almost universally.

That's exactly why there must be some other reason - and i'll stop beating around the bush and say what everyone here knows it is: racism - that Eastern Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Appalachia all saw in increase in percentage of the vote for the Republican candidate while the rest of the country did not.

Now, since I know you're a bit slow in the reading comprehension department let me break it down for you a bit more so you don't misunderstand. No, not everyone who voted for McCain is a racist and no not everyone who voted for McCain in those areas did so on the basis of Obama's race and yes many of Obama's voters were racist themselves in the opposite way. However, it is extremely clear that McCain saw his percentage of the vote rise to levels higher than Obama on the levels of increased racism in these areas.

[Spurminator]

I'd add that Arkansas looks especially strange, and an additional factor could have been Hillary loyalists.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Obviously there was a lot of sentiment to vote against Bush in the nation and that is one of the leading reasons the nation as a whole voted strongly for the democratic candidate and why their share of the vote went up almost universally.

That's exactly why there must be some other reason - and i'll stop beating around the bush and say what everyone here knows it is: racism - that Eastern Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Appalachia all saw in increase in percentage of the vote for the Republican candidate while the rest of the country did not.

Now, since I know you're a bit slow in the reading comprehension department let me break it down for you a bit more so you don't misunderstand. No, not everyone who voted for McCain is a racist and no not everyone who voted for McCain in those areas did so on the basis of Obama's race and yes many of Obama's voters were racist themselves in the opposite way. However, it is extremely clear that McCain saw his percentage of the vote rise to levels higher than Obama on the levels of increased racism in these areas.

keep your cause alive.

[MannyIsGod]

keep your cause alive.

Post evidence contradicting what I said. I realize the difficulty you have in thinking for yourself or actually taking a look at a situation and acknowledging what the data says but if you have anything that points to a different scenario please share it with us.

Then again just 2 posts above you admitted your ignorance on the subject but that hasn't stopped you from asserting my informed opinion is incorrect.

That's pretty damn ironic.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd add that Arkansas looks especially strange, and an additional factor could have been Hillary loyalists.

Sure, except that Hillary loyalists broke almost entirely for Obama around the country. Hillary did do better in these regions through the Democratic primary as well. Why would she crush in West Virginia against an almost identical candidate when it came to the issues?

Look, its obvious that Obama got many older African American votes for the same reason that these regions went for McCain. But anyone who thinks that we're completely over some racism hump in this country should take a look at those maps and recognize that while we've made and we're making great strides we're not done yet. In anothe couple of generations I don't think you'll see a situation like this either, but I don't believe we should just ignore it right now because of that.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

That's pretty damn ironic.
I believe we have established for some time now that they don't do irony.

[jav]

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2199540/2200161/081022_BS_MAP1.jpg

This map shows self reported ancestry. People who described themselves of American heritage are in the areas that voted in higher %'s for McCain.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1108/Real_America.html

[Nbadan]

I believe we have established for some time now that they don't do irony.

:lol

They're not great with logic either.....you could make a GOPer's head explode..

[Duff McCartney]

Added to which - the youth will grow up and get some values and morals and vote conservative

I'm 25 years old...and I probably have more values and morals than you'll ever.

What I still don't understand is how Lousiana which has a huge African-American population still went Red. Shit I fucking lived in Georgia for two years and there was nothing but brothas and sistas and I don't understand how THAT state went Red.

I guess because in those states there is hardly any other "minorities" I swear I felt like an outside when I lived in Georgia because while there were some mexicans and other hispanics...it was pretty much black and white there. Literally.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm 25 years old...and I probably have more values and morals than you'll ever.

What I still don't understand is how Lousiana which has a huge African-American population still went Red. Shit I fucking lived in Georgia for two years and there was nothing but brothas and sistas and I don't understand how THAT state went Red.

I guess because in those states there is hardly any other "minorities" I swear I felt like an outside when I lived in Georgia because while there were some mexicans and other hispanics...it was pretty much black and white there. Literally.

African Americans are still a minority in Georgia. They are a minority in Louisiana too. Those are 2 of the states (maybe the top 2 actually) in AA population but they still make up a minority.

Even so, I really thought Georgia was going blue.

[Bigzax]

not to state the overly obvious, but if you're white/hispanic and live on the east side, your probably voting McCain too. you can't be around shit like that and not develop a prejudice.

to fail to lay any of the blame for the perpetuation of racism on the doorstep of black America is a fatal flaw.

[MannyIsGod]

not to state the overly obvious, but if you're white/hispanic and live on the east side, your probably voting McCain too. you can't be around shit like that and not develop a prejudice.

to fail to lay any of the blame for the perpetuation of racism on the doorstep of black America is a fatal flaw.

Racism against blacks is their own fault?

Wow.

[cherylsteele]

all of this "data" is irrelevant. You all fail to consider the harsh truth - that conservatives had no vote. Lots of them stayed home.
They stayed home and did not vote? :violin

It is a right and a priveledge to vote, if they do not exercise that right do not cry about the outcome.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

to fail to lay any of the blame for the perpetuation of racism on the doorstep of black America is a fatal flaw.
Oh, please explain. I can't wait to hear this one.

[Kamnik]

why cant we all just geat along! :P

[Cry Havoc]

keep your cause alive.

Our "cause" is now heading for the White House. I don't think we have to do much to keep support for Obama alive. Just my opinion, though.

[Centaur of the Sun]

Hmmm... It would appear that the Houston and Dallas suburbs are the last bastion of densely populated Republican voters in Texas. Obama won Bexar, Travis, Harris, and Dallas counties.