Article: Tony Parker: 3rd Best PG in basketball.

[yoonew1]

Tony Parker: The 3rd Best PG in basketball. (http://blog.yoonew.com/2008/11/tony-parker-is-3rd-best-point-guard-in.html)

When people think of the point guard position in the NBA, they think of the popular ones - the Nash's, Paul's, Deron's, and Baron's. But one thing all four of those player have in common is that none of them have what Tony Parker has - 3 titles.

The overlooking of Tony Parker over the years as an elite NBA PG might be one of the most egregious of any player this decade. How is it that Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, and Baron Davis get mentioned ahead of TP? For one, three of those four players, Parker has beaten on his way to a title consistently. As for Baron Davis, if your argument is that TP is not a disher, then what is Baron? He barely averages one assist more in his career per game and he isn't even a better scorer than Parker who's also much more durable.

Since the double-nickel and 10 assist game he put down on the "baby wolves" last night, I immediately flash-backed to the 2008 Western Conference playoff coverage on TNT during the Spurs-Hornets series. Charles and Kenny were speaking about the emergence of point guards like Deron and Paul and mentioned six other point guards before they mentioned Parker. I was like: "What the hell does this guy have to do to be mentioned among the best?" He's only 26 years old and has three titles already and has been an intregal part of each of them.

I understand anyone saying that Deron and Paul are better than TP. That's not even an argument because they are better all-around players. But, two to three years ago, when Paul and Deron were out at Illinois and Wake, Parker was the best PG in basketball. Not Steve Nash or Kidd - both were still great players, Nash more than Kidd, but Tony Parker has absolutely shredded Nash in the playoffs and has led his team to victory and in scoring in all three playoff series between the teams. In the 2003 NBA Finals, Parker did the same to Jason Kidd in the six game series.

Flash to now - all the players mentioned may play in bigger media markets and are in the spotlight more often, but that shouldn't be a factor in ranking the best PG's in basketball. In addition, the Spurs aren't the most loved franchise in basketball and many seem to diminish the accomplishments of Parker because he has Duncan. Like Paul doesn't have West, Nash have Shaq, or Deron has Boozer.

In the end, if it comes down to leading your team to titles, TP is the best point guard in basketball. If it comes down to assists per game, he's not even better than Ramon Sessions. But as an overall package, there are only two players on both the offensive and defensive end that are better than him and that's Paul and Deron. But if you think you can argue anyone after those two being better than a 26 year-old, three ring, could score 50 points if he wants point-guard, you're argument's as weak as the Nuggets defense.

[vander]

:lol
I love TP, but the guy is a one-trick pony, and has been very lucky to play alongside Tim Duncan.

TP on almost any other team would not be part of any top PG discussion.

[urunobili]

until CP3 or D-will get close to his accomplishments he is nbr 1

[xtremesteven33]

Parker is still improving. Hell be the best once he knocks down that 3 consistently. He gets overlooked alot due to the market he plays in and his style of play. Deron Williams is the go to guy on his team. So is Chris Paul. But with the Spurs, he shares that with 2 other guys, which takes away alot of the limelight that a PG of his caliber deserves.

[bdictjames]

Parker is still improving. Hell be the best once he knocks down that 3 consistently. He gets overlooked alot due to the market he plays in and his style of play. Deron Williams is the go to guy on his team. So is Chris Paul. But with the Spurs, he shares that with 2 other guys, which takes away alot of the limelight that a PG of his caliber deserves.
A point guard is supposed to dish out assists; Parker might average 25-27 points a game but winning-wise its very hard for a team to live with a score-first PG. That's what separates him from Paul or Williams.

[yoonew1]

I've been a Spur fan since 92 and what PG have we really had to average a lot of assists. Our offense was never predicated on a lot of point guard involvement. Even Avery didn't average much.

[mrspurs]

Tony isnt overlooked at all. Guess who came down a couple of weeks ago and seen Tonys house. CP3, thats right the evil guard people think is better then Tony. Yall would be surprised what players think of each other. Its totally different then how fans see players. Believe that.

[The Truth #6]

Avery averaged around 8 assists if I remember correctly.

[Cry Havoc]

:lol
I love TP, but the guy is a one-trick pony, and has been very lucky to play alongside Tim Duncan.

TP on almost any other team would not be part of any top PG discussion.

:rolleyes

We need more replies in this thread from people who have actually watched basketball. Seriously, one of the more idiotic takes I've seen from someone in this forum for quite some time.

[Brazil]

:lol
I love TP, but the guy is a one-trick pony, and has been very lucky to play alongside Tim Duncan.

TP on almost any other team would not be part of any top PG discussion.

wow even after a night at 55 10 and 7 there are some guys here to put TP down :wakeup. unbelievable

[MoSpur]

Saying TP is lucky to be playing alongside TD is correct. Anyone who plays alongside TD is lucky. However, to say he wouldn't be as good as he is because he plays with Duncan is wrong. He would actually have a lot more 30 + points games if he didn't have someone like Duncan on his team.

He is not the best all around PG in the game right now, but he is close and he is still very young. I think the market he is in and the fact that he doesn't throw alley-oops, no look passes, and all that also counts against him. TP is the best at finishing at the basket as far as PGs go. His jumper is looking better. He would probably average more assists, but the team he is isn't the best at putting the ball in the hole and at transition offense.

[vander]

:rolleyes

We need more replies in this thread from people who have actually watched basketball. Seriously, one of the more idiotic takes I've seen from someone in this forum for quite some time.

If a team doesn't let TP get to the rim, and any good, well coached team can do this, he becomes mostly ineffective. even now, with his improved jump shot, do you want TP shooting jumpers all game long when teams go under the screen? I'm sure the opposition does

[MoSpur]

Good point Vander, but he is improving on that jumper and that is why he is becoming one of the best PGs. If he continues to improve and really get that jumper down, how do you defend him?

[ducks]

tp is just entering his prime people

[ducks]

Good point Vander, but he is improving on that jumper and that is why he is becoming one of the best PGs. If he continues to improve and really get that jumper down, how do you defend him?

chip said it would take 3-4 years
this is year 3

what will year 4 be like:wow

[stéphane]

I think the market he is in and the fact that he doesn't throw alley-oops, no look passes, and all that also counts against him.

I'm not quoting for disagreeing on your post or anything but when I read what I quoted I had the image of pop going crimson like he would be about to kill somebody that popped in my mind... :lmao

[hater]

Parker is playing like the #1 pg in the league right now.

[ducks]

Avery averaged around 8 assists if I remember correctly.

after how many seasons with pop?
and was it with david and tim?

[timvp]

:lol
I love TP, but the guy is a one-trick pony, and has been very lucky to play alongside Tim Duncan.

TP on almost any other team would not be part of any top PG discussion.We never have to worry about Tony Parker becoming overrated because Spurs fans are the first in line to take a hatchet to his accomplishments. Amazing.

Gotta love Spurs fans.


A point guard is supposed to dish out assists; Parker might average 25-27 points a game but winning-wise its very hard for a team to live with a score-first PG.That's actually totally wrong.

Championship Starting Point Guard - Assists Per Game
2008 Rajon Rondo - 5.1
2007 Tony Parker - 5.5
2006 Jason Williams - 4.9
2005 Tony Parker - 6.1
2004 Chauncey Billups - 5.7
2003 Tony Parker - 5.3
2002 Derek Fisher - 2.2
2001 Derek Fisher - 4.4
2000 Ron Harper - 3.4
1999 Avery Johnson - 7.4
1998 Ron Harper - 3.5
1997 Ron Harper - 2.7
1996 Ron Harper - 2.6
1995 Kenny Smith - 4.0
1994 Kenny Smith - 4.2
1993 BJ Armstrong - 4.0
1992 John Paxson - 3.1
1991 John Paxson - 3.6

In the last 18 seasons, exactly one pass-first point guard has won a championship -- and most people (including Spurs fans) regarded Avery Johnson as a weakness rather than a strength. And who's second in the above list? None other than the supposed one-dimensional gunner Tony Parker.

With today's slower paced games and huge increase in scouting ability, having a pass-first point guard actually hurts in the playoffs. The most dangerous teams are the ones that don't depend on one singular player to orchestrate their offense.

You'd think Spurs fans would recognize why the Spurs were able to beat every playoff opponent in the Tim Duncan Era who has relied on a pass-first point guard. The Spurs regard such teams as "snake teams". You cut off the head of the snake and you win. That's why when AJ took over the Mavs, the first thing he did was make the team use isolation plays almost exclusively offensively. A team that comes at you with two or three points of attack is much more difficult to guard than a team that has only one person running the show - as we found out the hard way in the 2006 playoffs.

I agree that pass-first point guards are fun to watch. But wishing for the Spurs to have a pass-first point guard is stupid unless you don't care about championships. The fact that their offense has three playmakers who get about equal shares of touches is a big reason why they have three championships together. You turn Ginobili and Duncan into simply scorers instead of creators and the Spurs wouldn't be nearly as much of a force in the playoffs.

[stéphane]

I never had looked at this stat.
Great one Timvp

[Allanon]

Tony Parker IS the #3 point guard right now. Nash, Chauncey, whatever are nowhere close. And if you only talk about performance this season, Tony's been the best.

You have CP3, DWill & Tony, then you have the rest.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

You know -- Sequ is Sequ, but he's way closer to right than wrong about TP.

This article is bogus. Tony is better than CP and D Williams. You can't prove me wrong. Have your opinion but I'll win any argument on that point.

There's no other PG I'd rather have, but it on the Spurs or any other team in the league. You can have either CP or Williams but Tony is more clutch and a better winner than either one of those two. Tony could lead utah to a ship. -- Williams won't. Are you kidding me!? TP running Sloan's offense? Please.

[MoSpur]

Good find timvp. To me its the fact the TP isn't all that flashy with his passing and the market he is in that gets him overlooked. The guy is only 26 years old and has three rings. He does a great job of getting his teammates involved even though his assists stat say he averages around 6 per game.

[spursfan09]

:lol
I love TP, but the guy is a one-trick pony, and has been very lucky to play alongside Tim Duncan.

TP on almost any other team would not be part of any top PG discussion.

how the hell can we expect the media to give TP the proper respect, if even Spur fans themselves wont.

[ginobilized]

Great work TiMVP.

Whether TP is #1 or #3 really doesn't matter and is infinitely debatable...BUT, he is playing the best basketball of his career and has improved steadily every season and he will continue to improve I predict.

How could TP be playing any better than he is?

[Fermixalot]

Wow, TiMVP, that is an incredible stat.

Tony has steadily improved every year he's been with us. Chip's work with him has been nothing less that remarkable as Tony's jump shot has become money. Combine that with his fearlessness at the rim, his will to win (as evidenced against the Wolves and other countless occassions) and his facilitator skills you've got a PG for the ages.

His "downfall" in the press is the same as Tim, he just goes out there and does his job. Doesn't need to talk about it, he just goes out there, shreds your defense and wins championships. But sadly, that's not what the media wants to report, they want to report the alley-oops and no look passes of PGs that Tony has consistently beaten in the playoffs.

Go Spurs!

[timvp]

As far as ranking point guards, I don't really care. Point guard stats depend so much on the offense that it's the one position that is almost impossible to rank. Looking at stats, you'd have to say Steve Nash is better than Tony Parker. But then watch how Parker has destroyed Nash over the years and that argument loses water.

You can make pretty convincing arguments that CP3, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and a healthy Gilbert Arenas are better than Parker. But honestly, that doesn't matter at all. I'll gladly take Parker on the Spurs with no complaints whatsoever.

[Brazil]

I hope that TP will have a good game tonight if not the Trade Parker threads will prosper again.

[romain.star]

I hope that TP will have a bad game tonight if not the Parker is the best player in the History of the game threads will prosper again.

[50 cent]

We never have to worry about Tony Parker becoming overrated because Spurs fans are the first in line to take a hatchet to his accomplishments. Amazing.

Gotta love Spurs fans.


It really is mind blowing. Spurs fans are idiots.

[duncan228]

I hope that TP will have a good game tonight if not the Trade Parker threads will prosper again.

:lol Get used to it. There are 'Fire Pop' and 'Trade Tim/Manu/Tony' threads after pretty much every loss all season.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

It's all about Clutch -- the last 2 years, Tony has blatantly demonstrated that he is money in "Winning Time." Growing up in the NBA with Tim and Manu had to help, but the 2003 finals (which were bad but weren't so disastrous as some remember) was a crucible for him.

He can, through sheer force of will, lead his team to victories they didn't earn. He can do it when it is most important not to lose, in the biggest games, against the toughest opponents.

And he can do it in a big-time way with points, and1s, jumpers, threes, assists, stops, you name it.


One could not honestly say that about paul or d. williams. Not yet, anyway. Nut punching disappearing acts, in game fighting, no leadership --
and lots of assists.........

Their stats might be better for all eternity
but it's Clutch Time that matters.

[Brazil]

:lol Get used to it. There are 'Fire Pop' and 'Trade Tim/Manu/Tony' threads after pretty much every loss all season.


:lol I get the picture but I've never seen a Trade Tim Duncan thread.

[polandprzem]

:lol I get the picture but I've never seen a Trade Tim Duncan thread.

You've been here too short.

I could not imagine spurs without TP right now. I know I was not happy with his passing and court vision as a point guard. But a value getting into the lane and slashing to the basket makes him priceless as a PG these days.
I surely can say that Paul is better PG then TP - not onlt stats but a creation of a team, choosing the best ways to score either to hit shot or makes a perfect pass which translates into assissts.

[duncan228]

:lol I get the picture but I've never seen a Trade Tim Duncan thread.

There have been some that think we should trade him while he's still got some high value. I'm sure if you search you'll find them.

If the Spurs hit a rough patch anything goes on ST. :lol

[jcrod]

There have been some that think we should trade him while he's still got some high value. I'm sure if you search you'll find them.

If the Spurs hit a rough patch anything goes on ST. :lol

Yeah, but overall Tony gets all the blame and hatred threads. He can do nothing right. Manu is the savior and TD is pretty quite nowadays.

Unknowledge Spurs fans are the worst. I don't even open half the threads here anymore, because they're idiotic.

[jcrod]

Nice find btw timvp, love that stat.

[polandprzem]

What I learned here at the ST is being selective

[CubanMustGo]

A point guard is supposed to dish out assists; Parker might average 25-27 points a game but winning-wise its very hard for a team to live with a score-first PG. That's what separates him from Paul or Williams.

Oh?

SA records since TP joined the ball club:

01-02 58-24
02-03 60-22 NBA Champions
03-04 57-25
04-05 59-23 NBA Champions
05-06 63-19
06-07 58-24 NBA Champions
07-08 56-26
08-09 01-03

TOTAL 412-166 (.713) + 3 NBA Championships

Yeah, you're right, it's hard.

[Ghost Writer]

Tony Parker has turned out to be a lot better than I had imagined back in the Chris Whitney days.

My gripe is still that he is not and never will be the traditional playmaker of the Paul, Kidd, Nash, D. Williams mold.

But on the Spurs, I guess he doesn't have to be.

But if you notice, Parker is setting up teammates more.

another thing is that it's easier to get assists when you have talented finishers on your team.


Parker is expected to carry much of the scoring burden.



It's hard to evaluate PGs on an individual basis, because the team and system they play in dictates a lot.

[honestfool84]

timvp just schooled anyone who wants a pass-first-tony.

[Ghost Writer]

Pass to who?

[himat]

5th best. He is starting to get rated too high.

CP3
Deron Williams
Nash/Billups (depending on what you think defines a good PG)
Tony Parker
Baron Davis

Tony Parker isn't even the best guard you have on the team. Manu is waaay better.

[diego]

tony doesnt get that press because he isnt as flashy as the other guys- no dunks, few 3s, mostly just layups and floaters, which for some reason arent appreciated despite their high difficulty level

i used to criticize parker, but he has improved so much in the last 5 years that i have nothing but good things to say about him. His shooting, passing, decision making and now leadership have all improved tremendously. I do worry that if he loses speed he lacks the height to still be effective, but maybe he has a little iverson in him, its too early to tell.

[m33p0]

I'm not quoting for disagreeing on your post or anything but when I read what I quoted I had the image of pop going crimson like he would be about to kill somebody that popped in my mind... :lmao
rod strickland?

[mVp]

Tony Parker isn't even the best guard you have on the team. Manu is waaay better.

Manu is a much better all around player than TP, Manu can do just about anything, maybe Tony relies to much on his speed, but he's younger than Manu, and he's just entering his prime, so he has time to improve on his game, like he's doing now.

[anakha]

Well, now the Parker bashers can see what not having a supposed 'PG who doesn't pass' on the team means for the Spurs... :flipoff

[Cry Havoc]

Damnit. :pctoss

[spursfan09]

Well, now the Parker bashers can see what not having a supposed 'PG who doesn't pass' on the team means for the Spurs... :flipoff

QFT.

Hopefully he won't be out too long. :(