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timvp
11-09-2008, 07:34 AM
The San Antonio Spurs suffered two losses on Friday night in the AT&T Center against the Miami Heat. The biggest loss was when Tony Parker went down with an ankle injury while going up for a layup in the first quarter. Parker, who was playing his first game after scoring a career-high 55 points, will be sidelined up to a month with an ankle sprain.

Oh and the Spurs also lost the game.

The Heat basically put it away in the first quarter. With San Antonio leading 9-6, Miami scored 18 straight points and never looked back. The Spurs made a few runs here and there but the contest was never really in doubt. The 99-83 victory was the Heat’s first win in San Antonio since 1996.

Although the Spurs definitely helped them out by playing poorly for most of the night, the Heat also looked much improved from last season. Superstar Dwyane Wade looks healthy and rookie Michael Beasley is one of the most naturally gifted and effortless players to hit the NBA in a while.

For the Spurs, they are just a bad basketball team right now. It’d be easy to blame this loss on Parker’s injury, but the Spurs were playing horribly even before he got hurt. It’d be easy to point to Manu Ginobili’s absence as an excuse, but even his return wouldn’t be enough at the moment. The problems begin with their atrocious defense and also include inconsistent effort levels and a lack of desperation. Against the Heat, the Spurs mixed in a sputtering offense for good measure.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
28 minutes, 22 points, 11 rebounds, two assists
9-for-16 from the field, 4-for-5 at the line

Even though his statistics look good, this wasn’t a very impressive outing for Tim Duncan. His decision-making on offense was much slower than we’ve seen out of him this season, which aided in stagnating the offense. He was effective when he made quick decisions but he didn’t do so nearly enough. Defensively, he was poor. While it’s true that he had a difficult matchup against the perimeter-oriented lineups the Heat utilize, more effort defensively would have gone a long ways. Instead, the Heat got almost every shot they wanted with Duncan having a first row seat to it all. For about the next month, Duncan is going to have to play at a very high level if the Spurs are going to win with only their Big One remaining.
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Tony Parker
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3527.jpg
10 minutes, four points
2-for-5 from the field

Prior to getting injured, Tony Parker wasn’t playing too well against Miami. He seemed a bit fatigued after his 55-point performance against the Minnesota Timberwolves. I’m not sure if fatigue played a part in his injury, although that he hurt his ankle without contact from another player points to that possibility. The most important thing Parker can do now is make sure he stays out until he’s 100%. Last year he came back too soon from an ankle injury. As a result, he played at less than 100% for virtually the entire regular season. Parker can’t rush back even if the Spurs begin to massively struggle.
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Bruce Bowen
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3167.jpg
12 minutes, two points, two turnovers
1-for-3 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

Bruce Bowen didn’t get much playing time but his defense didn’t look as bad as it had earlier in the season. It was still sub par when compared to his normal level of defense but he stayed in front of Wade for the most part and showed a decent amount of quickness. That said, he still wasn’t completing plays defensively and had a number of mental errors on that end of the court. Offensively, he was poor. Bad decisions and late decisions were prevalent. With both Parker and Ginobili sidelined, Pop may be forced to continue to drastically limit Bowen’s minutes. The Spurs will need to find a way to create offense – and that answer will not be found within Bowen’s offensive arsenal.
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Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
38 minutes, 18 points, six assists, five rebounds
6-for-17 from the field, 5-for-11 on three-pointers

Roger Mason, Jr. started for the first time in his Spurs career – and he also struggled for the first time in his Spurs career. He seemed a bit overwhelmed as a starter and he didn’t begin the game playing as crisply as he has played in the previous four contests. As a result, Mason was hesitant and a step slow on both ends of the court. After finishing the first half 0-for-5 from the field, Mason regrouped and played much better in the final two quarters. He hit six of his first eight shots in second half and actually performed quite well when put at point guard. Fatigue seemed to slow him at the end of the game as he missed his final four shots but overall, Mason played pretty well. He showed a lot of variety to his game on the offensive end in the second half and also played relatively good defense during that time. Going forward, Mason is going to have to become a consistent if not explosive scorer for the Spurs to have a chance until one of their two backcourt stars returns.
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Kurt Thomas
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3012.jpg
13 minutes, four points, six rebounds
2-for-3 from the field


Kurt Thomas finally showed some signs of life. Starting at center, Thomas rebounded the ball decently well and wasn’t a total waste defensively. The bad news is that most of his damage came in the fourth quarter when the game was all but decided. Even though his production didn’t matter much, it was good to see that he’s still alive and kicking. Over the first four games, Thomas looked like he had already etched his basketball tombstone. He was still bad, don’t get me wrong, but at least there’s a smidgen of hope now.
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Desmon Farmer
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/usc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_headshot/p-farmer2.jpg
29 minutes, five points, five rebounds, two assists
2-for-9 from the field, 1-for-7 on three-pointers

Desmon Farmer led the bench in minutes played as Pop desperately searched for someone would could put the ball in hole muchly (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108060). Farmer didn’t shoot the rock well but I like how his aggression level was higher than we've seen previously. He relied mostly on three-pointers, however he was actually much more impressive when driving to the basket. Farmer made a couple of nice passes off the dribble and showed that he had a nose for the rim. Defensively, he’s still a major work in progress but he was improved from the last time he played. If Farmer can provide some offense over the next few weeks, he could find himself playing a lot more minutes.
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Ime Udoka
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3501.jpg
27 minutes, 14 points, four rebounds, two assists
5-for-10 from the field, 3-for-5 on three-pointers

Offensively, Ime Udoka appeared to be one of the few players on the team who could do anything right in the first half. His three-pointer ended the 18-0 run and for almost a full quarter of the game, Udoka was the only source of offense for San Antonio. Defensively, Udoka didn’t have nearly as much success. His lack of speed was obviously when he matched up against the smaller and quicker swingmen on the Heat. Udoka really needs to play well for the Spurs right now and if he does, he may find himself in the starting lineup soon.
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Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
24 minutes, four rebounds, three assists
0-for-8 from the field, 0-for-3 on three-pointers

It’s difficult to play much worse than Finley played on Friday night. The Spurs on a whole were bad but Finley took bad to a whole new level. He missed all eight shots he attempted and didn’t attempt to play defense much at all. The Spurs simply can’t afford for Finley to not carry his weight right now. If he can provide scoring in the upcoming games, that’d be great. If he can’t break out of his current slump that has seen him make only one of his last 22 shots, he’ll have to be buried on the bench for the Spurs to have a fighting chance.
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Anthony Tolliver
http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4371.jpg
22 minutes, eight points, four rebounds, three assists
3-for-7 from the field, 2-for-6 on three-pointers

The NBA debut of Anthony Tolliver was one of the few bright spots for the Spurs. The first aspect of Tolliver’s game that stands out when you watch him play is his energy. He’s constantly moving, he’s physical and he actually moves his feet quite well for a 6-foot-9, 245 pound power forward. He wasn’t tested much defensively but he was aggressive on his pick-and-roll defense, which should score him some points with Pop. Offensively, he’s going to be almost exclusively a three-point shooter, but Tolliver also made two very good passes that led to a pair of three-point plays for Duncan. He definitely earned himself more minutes and if the rest of the complementary bigmen continue to struggle, Tolliver may see a lot more time.
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George Hill
http://www.iupuijags.com/images/2007/12/12/player_hill.jpg
21 minutes, six points, two assist
2-for-7 from the field, 2-for-4 at the line

George Hill didn’t play too well against the Heat. His offensive play didn’t have much consistency or cohesion to it and on defense he failed to play with as much tenacity as we saw out of him in his first two games. But now with Parker sidelined, Hill will likely get the first crack at the point guard starting gig. He could get replaced by Vaughn or Mason if he struggles but the coaching staff would love for him to thrive in his new role. If Hill can concentrate at hitting the open shots offensively and harassing his opponent defensively, that would likely be enough to earn him big minutes. He must avoid trying to do too much because that’ll be his quickest ticket to the sidelines.
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Fabricio Oberto
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3988.jpg
16 minutes, three rebounds

I gave Fabricio Oberto a few warm up games after his heart scare but now after his third so-so performance, I’m not too sure what he has left in the tank. He’s not that old (especially considering Spurs’ standards) but he’s playing like he’s on his last basketball leg. Oberto isn’t rebounding well, he’s not getting open offensively and he just appears overmatched constantly. Hopefully he can bounce back but right now he’s surviving on his grit and smarts alone.
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Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
13 seconds

Prior to the season, Pop said that Matt Bonner was going to play a big role for the team this year. A number of missed shots, some blown assignments and a few boneheaded plays later and Bonner’s run outside of Pop’s doghouse appears to have lasted all of three and a half games. Now with Tolliver in the fold, Bonner will likely remain leashed up unless Tolliver struggles.
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Gregg Popovich
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

Pop didn’t help matters on Friday with his coaching. First, we also have to retroactively question Pop’s decision to play Parker so much to begin the season after seeing Parker go down possibly due to fatigue. Going with an ice cold Finley 24 minutes was highly questionable. Starting Thomas against a team who didn’t start even one interior player was a head scratcher. Though to be fair, Pop didn’t have much to work with against the Heat. Most every player he put in the game struggled and he wasn’t going to be able to find a winning combination. What he needs to do now is stress defensive even more than he usually does and find a rotation that gives the Spurs enough offense without sacrificing too much defense. All alliances to veterans should go out the window and he can’t be afraid to shake things up until he locates a few answers. Bottomline is that Pop is going to have to coach his beard off for San Antonio to have a chance to win any of the upcoming ballgames.
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Offense

The offense hadn’t been much of a problem in the first four games of the season. It was a rather large problem against the Heat. Scoring in the first half was very problematic and by the time the team found its way in the second half, the game was over. On the night, the Spurs shot 37.6% from the field, 31.4% from beyond the three-point arc and 61.5% at the charity stripe. Some of the problems were due to the over reliance on three-point shooting, as the Spurs shot a whopping 35 threes. Other problems were due to simple mechanical flaws in the offense such as poor spacing, bad play calling and questionable decisions.

Defense

The defense was again very bad. The Heat played offense like they were in an empty gym playing against pylons. San Antonio gave almost no resistance and were burned every way possible. When the Heat would penetrate, they’d have a choice whether to go all the way to the rim or kick it out to an open shooter. Even though the Spurs had a size advantage for much of the night, the Heat ended up with more rebounds and they were also the much more physical team. Basically, the Spurs are playing defense right now like they are the Mike D’Antoni Suns or the Don Nelson Mavericks – not the Gregg Popovich Spurs.

Drive to Survive

At 1-4 and without Parker and Ginobili, to say things look bleak would be an understatement. Even though their upcoming schedule isn’t that hard, the Spurs couldn’t beat the worst of the worst without improving upon their performance against the Heat. Between now and Tuesday when the Spurs play the New York Knicks, Pop needs to show why he’s a Hall of Fame coach and start figuring things out. It’s going to be a very bumpy road for at least the next few weeks but San Antonio has the personnel to play a lot better than what we’ve seen to begin the 2008-09 campaign.

Believe.

Kori Ellis
11-09-2008, 08:05 AM
Testing

Mr. Body
11-09-2008, 08:28 AM
Testing.

polandprzem
11-09-2008, 09:09 AM
Tasteing

mrspurs
11-09-2008, 09:15 AM
Wouldnt put much into the offensive points scored by a few of the guys. Alot of those points were scored from beyond the arc. This is the team I expected. Not sure about anyone else.

mrspurs
11-09-2008, 09:17 AM
Oh my bad. That was a good write up for the time spent, Im sure of it.

Chomag
11-09-2008, 09:18 AM
A very great take. Thank as always.

I'm growing so tiered of people saying we are only losing because we don't have Manu, and now Tony. It's true that we miss them, but even though we had them both right now do you all really think we would be much better with the current level of play? Plain and simple, our defencive effort is killing us, and most importantly our presence in the paint is just completely non-existent.. Teams are doing exactly what they want on offense without any resistance. Be it to much dead weight or to much worn out old knees the spurs look effortless out there.

Bottom line, us being without Manu, and tony has nothing to do with our current record.

SenorSpur
11-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Testing 1, 2, 3. Another great summary.

The Finley refrain seems the same after every game. In fact, you could bookmark those comments and stat line use them almost every game. The hope is always for Finley to shoot better, make good decisions, and at least play average defense. Personally, I think it's time to stop holding out hope that he is going undergo some magical rebirth or reclaim the ability that once made him a feared 2-guard in this league.

It's time to accept the fact that, at this point in his career, Finley is an extreme liabiltity on the court. He is what he is. And what he is is DONE. In fact, he was one the way down when he arrived in '06 and he bottomed out last year. Anything the Spurs get from his is gravy.

The mere fact that Finley is on the roster at all is an insult to the Big 3 and it's indicative of Pop's tendency to overvalue bargain-basement veterans, who are well past their prime.

ducks
11-09-2008, 09:56 AM
I think starters and duncan mailed the game in after tp went down

they played with no energy
hopefully they will not feel sorry for themselves and atleast put an effort out there

ShoogarBear
11-09-2008, 10:01 AM
Pop needs to show why he’s a Hall of Fame coach

ducks
11-09-2008, 10:07 AM
Oberto is like horry sucks tell allstar break
but does not have postseason success to warrant such garbage play now

The Truth #6
11-09-2008, 11:31 AM
As Timvp hinted at, this is going to be a huge challenge for Pop to adjust to this new reality. So far his attitude and success have been built around a safe foundation of the Big 3. I'm curious to see how he responds. In some ways this is probably a shock to his system to see his firm belief in the usefulness of veterans blow up in his face. We've never had to invest too much in role players because if they didn't work out they were gone after the year and someone else came into replace them. Now, the coaches will really have to work on developing talent as a primary goal.

I hope Pop can adapt, and more importantly, wants to adapt. If at some point later in the season he thinks the Run is over, I'm curious to see how he reacts.

Earlier in the preseason Tony commented on the team wanting to give it one more run before blowing things up. They don't have much to blow up unless Bowen, Finley, and KT all graciously retire and not take their money. To me their only move was to trade one of the Big 3 and Manu was probably the only one that could mean. Tim is the foundation and Tony is younger.

If the team really wanted to give this season a last chance, at what point do they realize the reality. I'm not saying it's over now but the recent failure must make them look at whatever plans they've already considered.

If somehow by February we're not doing better, do they do something before they even get to the draft?

I'm not jumping the gun, only trying to connect some dots and throw this out for discussion.

Supreme_Being
11-09-2008, 12:58 PM
I still fuckin' believe.

Allanon
11-09-2008, 01:45 PM
I'm not really sure if you can take much from Timmeh's performance.

I mean his BFF just went down, he looked pretty worried there on the sidelines. And then he gets out on the court, realizes there's no Manu, but rather a bunch of guys he's never played with before. I'd betcha a million dollars he kept looking around at these new faces and thinking "I'm f*cked".

If it were me, I'd tell Pop to get me out and give Bonner some burn. Can't blame him for being distracted.

tlongII
11-09-2008, 02:00 PM
I have to disagree with the prevailing sentiment regarding what the Spurs' biggest problem is currently. I think you'll see that their biggest problem is lack of offense, not lack of defense. The reason the Spurs were in games at the start of the season is that they shot the ball uncommonly well. Without any reliable inside game they are going to depend on jump shots and I don't think they will fare well. I expect their offense to be atrocious.

Obstructed_View
11-09-2008, 02:06 PM
When you shoot uncommonly well and still can't get the lead, that means there's a problem with your defense.

tlongII
11-09-2008, 02:09 PM
When you shoot uncommonly well and still can't get the lead, that means there's a problem with your defense.

It means you're in for a big surprise when your jumpers stop falling. You were at least competitive in the earlier games.

duncan228
11-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Defensively, he was poor.

This about sums it up on their defense for me. Duncan anchors our defense and he was far from his usual standard. For me, when the Spurs play their best the offense flows from the defense. When the defense is lacking it impacts everything else. I don't know if he's playing hesitant for fear of foul trouble with no one to decently spell him or if he's off for some other reason. But Duncan needs to step it up on the defensive end for us to have any kind of shot at treading water while we wait for Parker and Manu to return.

bdictjames
11-09-2008, 02:17 PM
When you shoot uncommonly well and still can't get the lead, that means there's a problem with your defense.
Exactly, it separates the Spurs from at least 75% of teams in the NBA.

polandprzem
11-09-2008, 02:19 PM
Duncan looked little lost on D in Heat game.

tlongII
11-09-2008, 02:19 PM
Duncan's playing fine, imo. He's the leading scorer despite being doubled and tripled everytime he has the ball. He has to use too much energy on offense and rebounding to expect him to dominate defensively.

bdictjames
11-09-2008, 02:20 PM
Duncan looked little lost on D in Heat game.
He's just lacking athleticism, and teams have begun to notice that.

Obstructed_View
11-09-2008, 02:20 PM
It means you're in for a big surprise when your jumpers stop falling. You were at least competitive in the earlier games.

Fortunately you said "when" not "if". Jumpers stop falling sometimes, and defense is the vaccine for it. When you are competetive and lose despite shooting uncommonly well, it points to your defense and rebounding. Period.

By the way, do you actually think the Spurs came out of their close losses saying "well at least we were competetive"? If so, you've been rooting for a crappy team WAY too long.

spurster
11-09-2008, 02:20 PM
Testing

Tanking.

tlongII
11-09-2008, 02:23 PM
Fortunately you said "when" not "if". Jumpers stop falling sometimes, and defense is the vaccine for it. When you are competetive and lose despite shooting uncommonly well, it points to your defense and rebounding. Period.

By the way, do you actually think the Spurs came out of their close losses saying "well at least we were competetive"? If so, you've been rooting for a crappy team WAY too long.

Of course not. I'm just using that point to illustrate the veracity of my opinion. I will still argue that your offense is what needs fixing.

SenorSpur
11-09-2008, 02:32 PM
The realization of this season is becoming clearer with each game. First, the unexpected injuries to Manu and TP. Second, the awful, uninspired performances of veteran players, who Pop has relied on heavily in the past, but are now at or near the end of their careers. Third, the emerging, yet inconsistent, contributions of inexperienced young players, whose arrival on the team is long overdue. They are now just getting their first taste of NBA action.

Pop's most critical mistake is that he unwisely gambled on the continued productivity of the older veterans on this roster, for yet another year. To date, they've all looked horrible and uninspired. Looks like age have finally caught up to guys like Finley, Thomas and Oberto. As a result, he is forced play the younger guys sooner than expected. He is now faced with the most significant challenge of his coaching career. A roster mixed with end-of-the-line veterans, a few of young, hungry, developing players and the Big Three at the core. He's going to have to rebuild on the fly.

However all is not lost. A young prospect via a high draft pick next year, the continued development of the supporting cast of young players and the replacement of the non-functioning vets with possible players like Gist and Splitter (pending buyout), and there's no reason the Spurs shouldn't be right back in the championship hunt again next season. .

Remember the Fakers went through a similar "on-the-fly" rebuild a few seasons ago, following their NBA Finals appearance in 2004. They made some smart draft picks (Bynum, Farmar) and a couple of smart moves in free agency (Gasol, Ariza) and they propelled themselves right back in contention.

Obstructed_View
11-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Of course not. I'm just using that point to illustrate the veracity of my opinion. I will still argue that your offense is what needs fixing.

The Spurs' PPG is the second most they've scored since Timmy's been here, 2 points more than last year.

They're allowing more points per game than they have since 1989, 15 ppg more than last year.

When you shoot lights out and STILL LOSE, there's something more than your offense that needs help.

polandprzem
11-09-2008, 02:51 PM
He's just lacking athleticism, and teams have begun to notice that.

Not agreeing

polandprzem
11-09-2008, 02:53 PM
Pop's most critical mistake is that he unwisely gambled on the continued productivity of the older veterans on this roster, for yet another year. To date, they've all looked horrible and uninspired. Looks like age have finally caught up to guys like Finley, Thomas and Oberto. As a result, he is forced play the younger guys sooner than expected. He is now faced with the most significant challenge of his coaching career. A roster mixed with end-of-the-line veterans, a few of young, hungry, developing players and the Big Three at the core. He's going to have to rebuild on the fly.
Right on a money

timvp
11-09-2008, 04:00 PM
I have to disagree with the prevailing sentiment regarding what the Spurs' biggest problem is currently. I think you'll see that their biggest problem is lack of offense, not lack of defense.The Spurs are the worst defensive team in the NBA and one of the top five best offensive teams in the NBA, yet their problem is offense.

Gotcha :tu

SenorSpur
11-09-2008, 04:12 PM
OMG! They've now morphed into the Phoenix Suns. God help us all!

mystargtr34
11-09-2008, 06:33 PM
Spurs offense is actually pretty good, even without Manu and Parker for a full game. There 6th in offensive efficiency in the NBA.

Defensively, only Sacramento is worse.

Man Mountain
11-10-2008, 06:10 PM
Thanks for these...................................

tlongII
11-10-2008, 06:19 PM
What you've been seeing on offense for the Spurs is an illusion. This will become evident soon enough.

timvp
11-10-2008, 06:21 PM
What you've been seeing on offense for the Spurs is an illusion. This will become evident soon enough.
:lmao Way to go out on a limb there. Parker out will hurt the offense.

Props for the insight.

Manufan909
11-10-2008, 06:27 PM
He must be psychic.

mytespurs
11-10-2008, 07:00 PM
I saw that film of Tony rolling the ankle-it looked bad.

wildchild
11-10-2008, 08:16 PM
Oberto is like horry sucks tell allstar break
but does not have postseason success to warrant such garbage play now

I think Oberto looked good against Dallas and Minnesota. Then Pop chose Thomas as starter and Oberto lost his confidence. I've seen that movie last playoffs.
Maybe Oberto makes up for his lack of confidence by working hard but I don't sure. In few games of preseason Oberto did a pretty good job, but against Miami he slept through the whole game.