PDA

View Full Version : So making a type of porno now earns you 4 years in prison.



BacktoBasics
11-10-2008, 10:53 AM
I can't wait for a few of you guys to start justifying this kind of sentencing.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/07/adult-film-director.html

A US District Court in Florida has sentenced "extreme shock porn" gonzo director and distributor Max Hardcore, aka Paul F. Little, to four years in prison over obscenity charges. Writing for Salon, Glenn Greenwald wrote that he believes the verdict is a blow to first amendment rights:


“So, to recap, in the Land of the Free: if you’re an adult who produces a film using other consenting adults, for the entertainment of still other consenting adults, which merely depicts fictional acts of humiliation and degradation, the DOJ will prosecute you and send you to prison for years. The claim that no real pain was inflicted will be rejected; mere humiliation is enough to make you a criminal. But if government officials actually subject helpless detainees in their custody to extreme mental abuse, degradation, humiliation and even mock executions long considered “torture” in the entire civilized world, the DOJ will argue that they have acted with perfect legality and, just to be sure, Congress will hand them retroactive immunity for their conduct. That’s how we prioritize criminality and arrange our value system.”

The hometown Tampa, FL paper where Little was convicted wrote about the case in a condemning tone:

His pornographic persona, Max Hardcore, is all swagger and sadism – forcing women in his movies to do things that can't be described in a family newspaper. But in federal court today, as he faced a federal prison sentence, Paul F. Little trembled and begged a woman for mercy. "It just seems a very high price to pay, I think," Little told U.S. District Judge Susan Bucklew, "and I ask you to understand how much I've suffered."

Judge Sentences Porn Producer To 46 Months In Prison (Tampa Bay Online). Similar accounts published in Max Hardcore's home town paper, The Pasadena (CA) Star-News, and in this Tampa Bay paper.

Why was Little, aka Hardcore, convicted in Florida, when the offending material was produced elsewhere and distributed in many places, even overseas? IANAL, but as I understand it: producers are subject to obscenity charges in any state the material can be downloaded when local standards deem the material to be obscene. The landmark Supreme Court case of Hustler Magazine v. Falwell is informative background reading.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But the most authoritative voice I have read on the Max Hardcore case is that of Susannah Breslin, whose work I've blogged here many times. If you read one piece on this story, read hers.

Unlike most (perhaps all) of the voices you'll read on this topic, she's actually spent time on the kind of porn sets where "shock producers" like Hardcore preside, and she's watched more of his work than I could ever stomach. I can't speak for her, but I think the point of this powerful essay she's just published is this: the story is complicated. If we're going to talk about the big, abstract, meta issues -- and we should -- we owe it to the human beings involved to observe the human story, up close, with all the ugly details. Stories like this aren't easy or binary, and deserve complex, respectful treatment. We send reporters to Baghdad for in-depth reporting about the war; reporters covering this story would do well to understand this reality up close and personal, unromanticized. From Breslin's piece:

In Max Hardcore movies--"Anal Agony," "Hardcore Schoolgirls," "Max! Don't F**k Up My Mommy!"--women are verbally and physically degraded in an unprecedented myriad of ways. They are choked, slapped, throat-****ed, penetrated with fists, given enemas, pile-driven, urinated upon, vomited upon, and in some instances instructed to drink from glasses the money shots that have been delivered into their rectums. Most of the time, Little as Hardcore is the perpetrator of these acts.

Not infrequently, his scenes are fraught with pedophilia themes, beginning when he stumbles upon his subjects in playgrounds, where they sit alone, in pigtails, talking baby-talk, and sucking on lollipops. Mostly, the sex scenes end with his latest costar a mess and Hardcore triumphant. Even for the most jaded porn watcher, Little's ouevre is over the top.

Watching Little's work is less like watching a porn movie than it is akin to witnessing a vivisection. On the screen, Hardcore bends over the female bodies before him, sometimes with speculum in hand, as if attempting to get at something within her at which he can never quite get, and so to which he is doomed to return, his methods more and more hardcore.

In Porn Valley, Little is something of a pariah. The larger, more mainstream-oriented and consumer-friendly adult production companies like Vivid Video and Wicked Pictures pride themselves on turning out adult content that plays by the rules, thereby, they hope, protecting the industry from legal persecution. In contrast, Little and company, other producers believe, put the entire industry at risk by creating content more likely to be targeted in obscenity indictments. (See: The Cambria List.)

In 2005, the Bush administration launched its so-called "War on Porn," forming the Obscenity Prosecution Task Force, a Department of Justice outfit dedicated to pursuing obscenity prosecutions, and the FBI began recruiting for a "porn squad," otherwise known as the Adult Obscenity Squad, focused on "manufacturers and purveyors" of pornography. In late 2005, federal agents raided Little's offices in Altadena, California, but it wasn't until early 2007 that his indictment was unsealed. As it turned out, OPTF Director Brent Ward had found getting US Attorneys to pursue obscenity prosecutions wasn't easy. Consequently, US Attorneys who preferred dedicating their resources to crimes other than obscenity in districts more likely to win the administration obscenity convictions were eliminated.

Late last year, the OPTF's first trial began in Phoenix, Arizona, pitting the US government against a producer of bukkake videos, but the result was an embarrassment, the pornographer slipping out of the government's hands in the courtroom. When it came to Little, prosecutors were gunning for a win. Finally, three years after the OPTF was formed, the Feds got their man.

To The Max (contains explicit language; reversecowgirl blog)
UPDATE: Susannah Breslin has added a new update post with critical responses to her essay, and first-person testimonies related to this story from folks who grew up in or spent time in the "world" at issue. Really interesting read. Go have a look. Excerpt from one reader response:


"Greenwald's entire point in discussing the farcical proceedings that convicted Little is that they specifically selected a venue for prosecution best suited to clearing that first hurdle:"

"Even though he lived and worked in California, the Bush DOJ dragged him to Tampa, Florida in order to try him under Tampa's "community standards," on the theory that his website used servers physically based in Central Florida and some of the films were sent to Tampa customers who purchased them."

"And that's no legal standard at all - that's the whim of men, and most specifically men with a very particular kind of agenda regarding any and all public expressions or discussions of sex and sexuality - repulsive or otherwise. I think that the way to address this is not by a rigged judicial process but by passing better obscenity laws that have in mind as their first principles not moral scolding but the protection of porn performers, and that clearly lay down what is accepted and what is not rather than leaving those judgments to the whim of a given prosecutor."

Dr. Gonzo
11-10-2008, 10:58 AM
His pornos are entertaining.

hater
11-10-2008, 11:02 AM
this type of film is freely available on the internets. why would anyone pay money to get this, is beyond me.

I guess Max Hardcore is gonna be on the receiving end in prison :lol

TDMVPDPOY
11-10-2008, 11:04 AM
that dude, if any of u females wanna get into gonzo shit, you gotto go through him....GONZO biatches....

baseline bum
11-10-2008, 11:25 AM
In other words, fuck the first amendment. Thank you Bush you sick fuck for trampling on our great constitution yet again.

JoeChalupa
11-10-2008, 11:25 AM
Who am I to judge?

Bigzax
11-10-2008, 11:53 AM
Bush is just preserving the sanctity of good ol American traditional porn!

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-10-2008, 12:02 PM
"Even though he lived and worked in California, the Bush DOJ dragged him to Tampa, Florida in order to try him under Tampa's "community standards," on the theory that his website used servers physically based in Central Florida and some of the films were sent to Tampa customers who purchased them."

"And that's no legal standard at all - that's the whim of men, and most specifically men with a very particular kind of agenda regarding any and all public expressions or discussions of sex and sexuality - repulsive or otherwise. I think that the way to address this is not by a rigged judicial process but by passing better obscenity laws that have in mind as their first principles not moral scolding but the protection of porn performers, and that clearly lay down what is accepted and what is not rather than leaving those judgments to the whim of a given prosecutor."



That part sums up my thoughts on all of this. I don't understand how this guy can be convicted if there were no clearcut rules on acceptable behavior. If his actors were of legal age and consented, and the viewers were consenting by having to pay to view the films, I'm amazed that they were able to convict this guy.

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-10-2008, 12:04 PM
But I do believe that the actors are the ones that probably need protecting from abuses by the filmmakers, and again, the only way to do that is to have clearcut rules on what allowable acts are and are not.

Strike
11-10-2008, 01:09 PM
Here's the thing...

That type of porn isn't for me. I don't get off on women getting treated that way. So, here's what I do...I don't watch it. I make a personal choice not to watch that which I don't find entertaining and/or stimulating.

If ya don't like the product, don't patronize the product. If you don't want your kids stumbling upon it via the net, (here's where I rock the boat) be a parent and keep tabs on where they surf.

I. Hustle
11-10-2008, 01:11 PM
:downspin:

BacktoBasics
11-10-2008, 01:47 PM
That part sums up my thoughts on all of this. I don't understand how this guy can be convicted if there were no clearcut rules on acceptable behavior. If his actors were of legal age and consented, and the viewers were consenting by having to pay to view the films, I'm amazed that they were able to convict this guy.It really is amazing that it can get as far as a sentenced jail term and no one stepped up or in to say hey this unconstitutionally wrong on so many levels.

How can it be so broken that breaking the law via the court system can be done and done so easily right in front of everyones eyes. I feel bad for this guy because he's being violated and its going to be tough to find support for a guy who produces something as taboo as he does.

This country is fucked beyond repair. There are no rules anymore just judge and persecute.

baseline bum
11-10-2008, 01:57 PM
The sad thing is there are obscenity laws on the books that are so vague, practically anything unpopular can fit under their umbrella.

PBS's Frontline did a great story on it a few years ago. The full program can be watched here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/porn/view/

BTW, Frontline has to be the best show on TV by far.

timvp
11-10-2008, 02:34 PM
In other words, fuck the first amendment. Thank you Bush you sick fuck for trampling on our great constitution yet again.

Is Obama gonna make this legal?

:hungry:

Viva Las Espuelas
11-10-2008, 02:57 PM
he's in jail and 2 girls with a cup are free?

BacktoBasics
11-10-2008, 02:59 PM
Even I think 2 girls one cup should be illegal.

Sometimes you see things that you can never unsee.

baseline bum
11-10-2008, 02:59 PM
Is Obama gonna make this legal?

:hungry:

Obama's not going to go on the witch hunt against porn that Reagan and Bush have.

Anti.Hero
11-10-2008, 03:00 PM
Obama will pardon him!

He can go back to producing girls vomiting on each other yaaaaaaaay :toast

TwAnKiEs
11-10-2008, 03:06 PM
A US District Court in Florida has sentenced "extreme shock porn" gonzo director and distributor Max Hardcore, aka Paul F. Little, to four years in prison over obscenity charges. Writing for Salon, Glenn Greenwald wrote that he believes the verdict is a blow to first amendment rights


Super Pun...

:lmao:lmao

baseline bum
11-10-2008, 03:07 PM
Obama will pardon him!

He can go back to producing girls vomiting on each other yaaaaaaaay :toast

So do you think it should be illegal?

spurs_fan_in_exile
11-10-2008, 03:13 PM
Don't bet on Obama getting a chance to do so. I'm hoping that Bush goes out in style with a dizzying drunken spree of 11th hour presidential pardons, possibly including this one.

timvp
11-10-2008, 03:15 PM
Obama's not going to go on the witch hunt against porn that Reagan and Bush have.So do you think that it will be fair game when Obama is president and such pornographers won't have anything to worry about?

Legit question.

Dr. Gonzo
11-10-2008, 03:18 PM
Obama will pardon him!

He can go back to producing girls vomiting on each other yaaaaaaaay :toast

Actually the Max Hardcore chicks get pissed on. I'm not too sure about vomit.

baseline bum
11-10-2008, 03:39 PM
So do you think that it will be fair game when Obama is president and such pornographers won't have anything to worry about?

Legit question.

I do not think Obama is going to waste time and money pushing the DOJ to go after pornography.

Heath Ledger
11-10-2008, 05:33 PM
We are waterboarding terrorists yet these fuckers have the gall to put these people in prison? Wow. I love this country.

Viva Las Espuelas
11-10-2008, 05:43 PM
Even I think 2 girls one cup should be illegal.

Sometimes you see things that you can never unsee.a friend of mine admitted that he saw that video 5 times in a row.

MannyIsGod
11-10-2008, 06:31 PM
So do you think that it will be fair game when Obama is president and such pornographers won't have anything to worry about?

Legit question.

I think under Obama the DoJ will operate much differently. I think going after items such as Internet Gambling and this type of shit will be greatly reduced. Obama isn't on some moral crusade and I would hope that is reflected in his DoJ.

Nbadan
11-11-2008, 01:35 AM
....the theme of this thread should be 'sometimes you see shit that can't be unseen'...I'm not saying this guy should be in prison, but he should be in hell (if there is such a thing), minds warp when they see this kinda stuff, its like the teen kid who gets violent from watching to many rated R movies, things happen to people how watch too much of this trash, you just can't forget it and go back to before you watched it....

2centsworth
11-11-2008, 01:58 AM
These women have been molested and abused since the day they were born. You freakin sickos think these women actually enjoy eating poop or having dudes urinate on them. Sick trash like this Max just continues the abuse of these women. May he rot in hell and God have mercy on your soul if you support this dog crap.

Flight3107
11-11-2008, 02:12 AM
The women are the ones who should be in jail or put in a Psychiatric hospital for allowing someone to shit in their mouth or pee on their face.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 02:15 AM
These women have been molested and abused since the day they were born. You freakin sickos think these women actually enjoy eating poop or having dudes urinate on them. Sick trash like this Max just continues the abuse of these women. May he rot in hell and God have mercy on your soul if you support this dog crap.

Then let your god judge him, as this country has no right to. Each of those women chose their career.

2centsworth
11-11-2008, 02:21 AM
Then let your god judge him, as this country has no right to. Each of those women chose their career.

well apparently this country does have a right to because the piece of crap is serving 4 years. He's a freakin abuser of emotionally unstable women. You beat, rape and shit on children, and this is what you get. Then you freakin sick ass pervs wanna jerk off to watching them get abused more. F you and max and god have mercy on your souls.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 02:33 AM
well apparently this country does have a right to because the piece of crap is serving 4 years. He's a freakin abuser of emotionally unstable women. You beat, rape and shit on children, and this is what you get. Then you freakin sick ass pervs wanna jerk off to watching them get abused more. F you and max and god have mercy on your souls.

They're not children, you prick, and it's all consensual.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Every one of you who is against pornography, cancel your AT&T phone service. Drop you AT&T U-Verse. Quit going to Spurs games or watching them on TV, since every Spurs home game has giant advertisements for AT&T on the floor. Get rid of your General Motors vehicle. Encourage your simple-minded friends to never buy Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn, etc. Every single dollar you give to AT&T and General Motors is a dollar to the two largest pornographers in the world.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 02:44 AM
well apparently this country does have a right to because the piece of crap is serving 4 years. He's a freakin abuser of emotionally unstable women. You beat, rape and shit on children, and this is what you get. Then you freakin sick ass pervs wanna jerk off to watching them get abused more. F you and max and god have mercy on your souls.

Is this your argument?

1. There exist emotionally unstable women.
2. An emotionally unstable woman can be destroyed by the demented sex acts performed in Max Hardcore films.
3. Max Hardcore films women performing demented sex acts.
4. Max Hardcore is likely to attract emotionally unstable women to star in his films.
5. With high certainty, being in Max Hardcore films destroys the lives of some women.
6. Therefore, Max Hardcore should be put in prison.

TDMVPDPOY
11-11-2008, 08:32 AM
neo cons wont allow obama do what he wants...

the adult industry is a billion dollar business, alot of revenue in taxes is to be collected

RuffnReadyOzStyle
11-11-2008, 08:53 AM
Sometimes you see things that you can never unsee.

So true. :lmao

Interesting thread, by the way. I have no comment except to say: surely two girls one cup involves a fair bit of chocolate icecream? I mean, there are a lot of jump cuts in there... ;)

If not... :vomit:

2centsworth
11-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Is this your argument?

1. There exist emotionally unstable women.
2. An emotionally unstable woman can be destroyed by the demented sex acts performed in Max Hardcore films.
3. Max Hardcore films women performing demented sex acts.
4. Max Hardcore is likely to attract emotionally unstable women to star in his films.
5. With high certainty, being in Max Hardcore films destroys the lives of some women.
6. Therefore, Max Hardcore should be put in prison.

here's the progression:

1. child is born
2. child is raped & beaten
3. child becomes an emotionally distraught adult
4. perv exploits the now emotionally unstable adult

TDMVPDPOY
11-11-2008, 09:47 AM
Even I think 2 girls one cup should be illegal.

Sometimes you see things that you can never unsee.

http://image.linkinn.com/userfile/pictures_0710/Image/2382.jpg

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 09:56 AM
here's the progression:

1. child is born
2. child is raped & beaten
3. child becomes an emotionally distraught adult
4. perv exploits the now emotionally unstable adult

So you dodge the question. Nice.

leemajors
11-11-2008, 10:12 AM
here's the progression:

1. child is born
2. child is raped & beaten
3. child becomes an emotionally distraught adult
4. perv exploits the now emotionally unstable adult

generalizations kick ass.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 10:48 AM
I'd like to amend the argument I proposed for Max Hardcore's imprisonment, as there is an implicit premise (6) in it:

So do you agree with this one, 2cents?

Is this your argument?

1. There exist emotionally unstable women.
2. An emotionally unstable woman can be destroyed by the demented sex acts performed in Max Hardcore films.
3. Max Hardcore films women performing demented sex acts.
4. Max Hardcore is likely to attract emotionally unstable women to star in his films.
5. With high certainty, Max Hardcore knowingly destroys the lives of some women.
6. A person who knowingly destroys the life of a woman deserves to be imprisoned.
7. Therefore, Max Hardcore should be put in prison.

Your post above makes no argument that Max Hardcore deserves prison time. It's rather like the kind of argument you can see from conspiracy theorists such as the producers of Loose Change. Throw about a bunch of unsubstantiated premises, and then tell the person you present them to to connect the dots for himself instead of making any kind of logical argument.

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-11-2008, 11:19 AM
These women have been molested and abused since the day they were born. You freakin sickos think these women actually enjoy eating poop or having dudes urinate on them. Sick trash like this Max just continues the abuse of these women. May he rot in hell and God have mercy on your soul if you support this dog crap.

Personally, I don't see what the fascination is, and why people buy those films. It seems to be the opposite of arousing, and I'd bet that a lot of the men that really get off on that stuff have experienced some sort of trauma in their own lives. I could be wrong, I just have never been able to figure out the draw to films like those.

But...I don't know if you can convict this filmmaker simply because he makes these type of films. Not without solid laws in place that specifically state that what he's doing is against the law.

I agree that the guy is an opportunistic scumbag, but I didn't realize that we were allowed to throw people in prison for that offense these days. If so, I think a lot of banking executives and hedge fund managers might be in trouble.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 11:23 AM
Personally, I don't see what the fascination is, and why people buy those films. It seems to be the opposite of arousing, and I'd bet that a lot of the men that really get off on that stuff have experienced some sort of trauma in their own lives. I could be wrong, I just have never been able to figure out the draw to films like those.

But...I don't know if you can convict this filmmaker simply because he makes these type of films. Not without solid laws in place that specifically state that what he's doing is against the law.

I agree that the guy is an opportunistic scumbag, but I didn't realize that we were allowed to throw people in prison for that offense these days. If so, I think a lot of banking executives and hedge fund managers might be in trouble.

Lots of people have fetishes that are considered taboos. Pissing, shitting, vomiting, rape fantasy, foot fetish, violence, etc. I consider all of these pretty disgusting ways to get off, but there are a lot of individuals and couples who enjoy things like this, and no one is justified in telling consenting adults what they can or can't do or like in the privacy of their own homes.

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-11-2008, 12:03 PM
no one is justified in telling consenting adults what they can or can't do or like in the privacy of their own homes.

I agree with that for the most part. But I also see 2Cents point that some people might not be in the proper frame of mind to make rational decisions. If this "consenting" with fetishes becomes abusive, shouldn't there be rules in place to protect people, or at least limit what can be done on film?

To spin that a bit, you hear about women all the time that get the crap beaten out of them by their boyfriends, husbands, etc., who then refuse to press charges against him later on, and take him back into their home. These women 'consent' to getting beaten, but to an outside party, it's obvious that this woman's abuse has clouded her judgment. Do we say that's ok?

If some young woman is literally getting crapped and pissed upon, is she really thinking rationally? Getting hit almost sounds less abusive than eating some guy's crap.

I don't know where the law should draw the line on that. But my original point in the thread was that if there were no actual laws broken, this filmmaker shouldn't have been convicted. Should there be new laws enacted to limit what acts can be shown on film? My opinion is a resounding maybe.

Bigzax
11-11-2008, 12:13 PM
i don't want to live in a country where people can't consensually shit on each other...i have a dream!


a dream of a country where people are judged by the content of their character and not the content of their fecal matter!


Let feedom reign down upon us like the stream of urine from from the good max hardcore! let it reign!

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-11-2008, 12:20 PM
Thinking about it, if folks really want companies like Max Hardcore to go away, some smart attorney needs to get some of the former actresses or actors to sue over the 'abuses' they suffered during filmmaking. With the video evidence it likely wouldn't be too hard to convince a jury that these folks were abused by the filmmaker (whether that's true or not). Some multi-million dollar judgments against these companies and the hardcore porn industry will slither away into the night.

Clandestino
11-11-2008, 07:48 PM
all i gotta say is MONEY TALKS! Chicks are making videos for free! They are getting paid!

Duff McCartney
11-11-2008, 11:16 PM
Where do you get the notion that these people were abused/molested? I think that's a myth associated with the porn industry.

I remember Tyra Banks interviewing Sasha Grey on her show one time. Tyra Banks was adament that Sasha Grey was abused/molested as a child and that's why she is in porn even though Grey said that never happened and she's made a conscience choice to be in porn. It was a laughable stretch by Tyra Banks.

2centsworth
11-11-2008, 11:28 PM
i think you guys may have brain damage. this thread is not about the porn industry.
people who want to participate and watch porn should have all the freedom in the world to do so.

the crap max does does isn't porn. btw, my opinions are based on interview that I have read and heard about the women who are turned into "human toilets". They are usually very tormented and so far out of their right minds.

baseline bum
11-11-2008, 11:59 PM
Way to keep dodging my question as to the logic behind throwing Max Hardcore in prison.

baseline bum
11-12-2008, 12:01 AM
If the first amendment doesn't protect unpopular speech and expression, then what's the point of even having it?

Sigmund
11-12-2008, 01:47 PM
i think you guys may have brain damage. this thread is not about the porn industry.
people who want to participate and watch porn should have all the freedom in the world to do so.

the crap max does does isn't porn. btw, my opinions are based on interview that I have read and heard about the women who are turned into "human toilets". They are usually very tormented and so far out of their right minds.

I see.

Does pornography excite you so much that you are afraid of it?

Tell me how it makes you feel.

BacktoBasics
11-12-2008, 01:48 PM
Every single women who has participated in his videos did so with full consent and full well knowing what they were getting into.

Dr. Gonzo
11-12-2008, 01:56 PM
here's the progression:

1. child is born
2. child is raped & beaten
3. child becomes an emotionally distraught adult
4. perv exploits the now emotionally unstable adult

That can be said about any female that goes into the porn industry, not just the ones that get pissed and shit on. What else could make a person want to have sex with hundreds of different people, on camara for the world to see and for money? They must be emotionally unstable if they choose to do that. So if this is really your argument than you must also say that all porn directors should be doing time for exploiting these "emotionally unstable adults".

baseline bum
11-12-2008, 02:02 PM
That can be said about any female that goes into the porn industry, not just the ones that get pissed and shit on. What else could make a person want to have sex with hundreds of different people, on camara for the world to see and for money? They must be emotionally unstable if they choose to do that. So if this is really your argument than you must also say that all porn directors should be doing time for exploiting these "emotionally unstable adults".

Maybe they like fucking and making money. It has to beat the hell out of getting bent over at McDonald's for $7/hour. 2centsworth's generalization is stupid, but typical of the dogma from the religious right. Also typical of 2cents is his complete inability to make a logical argument why a pornographer should go to prison, and how we should trample the first amendment because he finds something objectionable.

BacktoBasics
11-12-2008, 02:06 PM
I've slapped a few women around in my day. Even pissed on a few some knew some didn't but they all loved it. Toss some money into the equation and its no wonder there is an endless amount of available porn for us to watch.

You can't jail someone for abusing a person who wants to be abused and is fiscally compensated for it. You might as well jail the conscenting participants too.

baseline bum
11-12-2008, 02:14 PM
Implicit in this whole argument for his imprisonment is the ridiculous idea that people don't like dominating, being dominated, gangbangs, water sports, shit fetishes, slapping and hitting, and role-playing in their personal sex lives. It seems like the right is always trying to push the myth of the missionary-only sex life.