Pregnant "Man" Pregnant Again

[desflood]

By ALAN B. GOLDBERG and KATIE N. THOMSON
Nov. 13, 2008

Thomas Beatie, the controversial "pregnant man" who gave birth to a daughter earlier this year, reveals to Barbara Walters in an exclusive interview that he is pregnant again with his second child.

Thomas Beatie, a transgender, welcomed a baby girl, Susan, June 29. Since sharing the story of Susan's birth with ABC News, he and his wife, Nancy Beatie, hadn't spoken to the media until they sat down last month with Walters.

Beatie, who is in his first trimester, tells Walters he did not go back on the male hormone testosterone after Susan's birth so he could have another baby.

"I feel good," he said. "I had my checkups with my hormone level, as far as the HCG. And everything is right on track." He says the baby is due June 12.

Thomas also spoke to Walters about Susan's birth, which was not via Caesarean section. He was in labor for 40 hours; Nancy Beatie cut the umbilical cord.

'We're Just a Family'
In the spring, Thomas Beatie wrote an article in the national gay magazine The Advocate, revealing that he was legally male and that he was pregnant. He released a photo showing his bearded face and pregnant belly. The news -- and the controversial photo -- ignited a media frenzy and provoked questions about traditional notions about sex and gender.

"Hiding a pregnant man is like hiding an 800-pound gorilla," he said of his decision to go public. "Nancy and I wanted to tell our story from our own mouths before it got out."

Thomas Beatie says he was surprised at how quickly the news of the "pregnant man" spread.

"I was shocked that it looped around the world in 24 hours," he told Walters. "I mean, it was on Chinese Web sites and, you know, Web sites in Romania and Russia and Brazil."

He became an instant target of the tabloids and paparazzi, and fodder for talk shows and late-night television. Some people called Thomas Beatie a freak. He received death threats, and thousands of hateful comments still litter the Internet. To this day, he continues to receive anonymous hate messages.

Since Susan's birth four months ago, he, 34, and his wife, Nancy Beatie, 46, have been living a quiet life in Bend, Ore., and have rarely been seen in public, keeping their blinds drawn and monitoring surveillance cameras that surround their property.

Despite concerns for his family's safety, Thomas Beatie says that he won't let fear rule their lives and that he feels they are a traditional family.

[BacktoBasics]

I still haven't figured out how a female can call herself a preggo man because she dresses and looks like a dude.

[CuckingFunt]

I still haven't figured out how a female can call herself a preggo man because she dresses and looks like a dude.

Because gender identity is a lot more complex than male and female, and is based on a lot more than how someone dresses.

[BacktoBasics]

Because gender identity is a lot more complex than male and female, and is based on a lot more than how someone dresses.So you're telling me that having a penis or a vagina isn't what defines male or female?

[CuckingFunt]

So you're telling me that having a penis or a vagina isn't what defines male or female?

Biologically, yes. But biology doesn't always dictate identity.

[I. Hustle]

Because gender identity is a lot more complex than male and female, and is based on a lot more than how someone dresses.

Yeah dude! It is if you were born with penis or born with a vagina! I'm with you CF!












:lol

[I. Hustle]

Damn I missed it

[JoeChalupa]

At least he's man enough to be a father, err...mother...a parent to his children.

[I. Hustle]

To this day there never has been nor never will be a pregnant man. PERIOD

[Richard Cranium]

At least he's man enough to be a father, err...mother...a parent to his children.

But does he have the balls?

[JoeChalupa]

But does he have the balls?

:lol

[ashbeeigh]

gender and sex are two different things.


gender: b: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender


sex: 1: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sex

More info: http://www.now.org/nnt/fall-2001/viewpoint.html

[BacktoBasics]

Biologically, yes. But biology doesn't always dictate identity.
Well I'd love to identify myself as a professional athlete but acting the part doesn't constitute the reality of actually being.

I don't see how having a penis doesn't dictate gender identity. That is by definition exactly how you identify identity.

Wanna pretend you're something you're not....ok I don't really have a problem with it but she isn't a man. By definition she's a female who acts and wants to be a man.

The rules don't change because some chic wants to have a penis or felt she should have had one at birth. You can't all of sudden redefine identity because you act, dress and look the part of the opposite sex.

I think you're reaching a bit CF. This gender identity thing is something these types of people have created to distance themselves from what they truely are. Possibly because they don't like being relagated to reality to begin with. Psychologically it would make perfect sense to find any was possible to "redefine" yourself if you don't like or feel good about you're original or true identity.


BTW I appreciate you.

[BacktoBasics]

gender and sex are two different things.





More info: http://www.now.org/nnt/fall-2001/viewpoint.htmlWhoa I don't know who you are but give ash her password back.

[ashbeeigh]

Whoa I don't know who you are but give ash her password back.

School just paid off. :lol

[RichardSimmons]

gender and sex are two different things.





More info: http://www.now.org/nnt/fall-2001/viewpoint.html

:elephant :elephant

[BacktoBasics]

According to Merriam-Webster, gender is “the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex” – while sex is defined as “either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male.” In other words, gender is subjective. Sex is biological.

Now "she" is refering to herself as "he". So if she is sexed as a she then just because she acts like a he doesn't mean she is actually a he.

I'm not seeing how or where the line is between gender and sex. Seems like a behavior doesn't constitute a "sex" change. Even the article ties the two together based on "sex".

[ashbeeigh]

Now "she" is refering to herself as "he". So if she is sexed as a she then just because she acts like a he doesn't mean she is actually a he.

I'm not seeing how or where the line is between gender and sex. Seems like a behavior doesn't constitute a "sex" change. Even the article ties the two together based on "sex".

The key word is subjective. Gender is subjective. The definitions vary from person to person. So, you could have one definition of "male" and this Thomas Beatie has a completely different definition. Until there is a generally agreed upon definition of "gender" the two will be tied together.

In popular society the two are so closely connected that there really isn't a distinction. This case really brings up the subjectivity of the two, imho.

[mrsmaalox]

The gender is in the DNA, but the gender identity is in the brain.

[I. Hustle]

The gender is in the DNA, but the gender identity is in the brain.

:lol

[BacktoBasics]

:lolbut but I have two brains

[CuckingFunt]

Well I'd love to identify myself as a professional athlete but acting the part doesn't constitute the reality of actually being.

It's hard to compare the situations, as being a professional athlete usually involves several steps in which your acceptance is placed in someone else's hands. Other people have to determine whether or not you're worthy of being in the NBA, for example, but that's not necessarily the case with gender identity. Or, perhaps even more explicitly, how one chooses to express that identity.


I don't see how having a penis doesn't dictate gender identity. That is by definition exactly how you identify identity.

Wanna pretend you're something you're not....ok I don't really have a problem with it but she isn't a man. By definition she's a female who acts and wants to be a man.

The rules don't change because some chic wants to have a penis or felt she should have had one at birth. You can't all of sudden redefine identity because you act, dress and look the part of the opposite sex.

I think you're reaching a bit CF. This gender identity thing is something these types of people have created to distance themselves from what they truely are. Possibly because they don't like being relagated to reality to begin with. Psychologically it would make perfect sense to find any was possible to "redefine" yourself if you don't like or feel good about you're original or true identity.

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I think, because it seems that we have a fundamental difference in beliefs as to what constitutes identity, and I'm not sure that either of us could make much headway in an argument.

Also a fundamental difference in beliefs as to what constitutes "reality," in this context. I don't think that a rigid male/female biological binary is "reality," so much as it is a social construct designed to put everyone into neat and tidy boxes.



BTW I appreciate you.

Well, really, who doesn't?

[I. Hustle]

but but I have two brains

:toast

[JoeChalupa]

but but I have two brains

Two heads doesn't mean two brains.

[BacktoBasics]

This is definately an agrument no one can win. Lets just talk shit about Viva instead.

[BacktoBasics]

Two heads doesn't mean two brains.Sincerely,

John Wayne Bobbitt

[Trainwreck2100]

Its not a man, it's a bitch that didn't have the balls to go all the way in HER gender switcharoo surgery.

[I. Hustle]

Its not a man, it's a bitch that didn't have the balls to go all the way in HER gender switcharoo surgery.

There we go with the Viva bashing

[MANGINA]

Interesting.

[kwhitegocubs]

Well, here is the thing. There IS significant evidence that transsexuals develop the brains of the opposite sex (possibly based on the interactions between genetics and pre-natal hormones in the mother's womb).

Since the brain is physical and there are SOME sex differentiations (in general) between men and women's brains - isn't that a physical manifestation of sex?

You can pick any individual behavior and label it male or female. Most people do. Figure skating? Female. Football? Male. However, are there men who figure skate and women who play football? Of course. If gender were a Venn Diagram, there would be more overlap than separation.

I hate how people are so concerned with categorizing people so firmly. Why does it matter? We (as a culture) seem to arbitrarily feel that some cross-sex/gender behaviors are acceptable and others horrible, and I can't see any reason for the distinctions.

[Anti.Hero]

This is such a non-story.

It's not even a man ffs. No one gives a shit you are pregnant and everyone feels sorry for your future kid.

[Biernutz]

This is nothing more than two lesbians saying "LOOK AT ME---LOOK AT ME"

[CuckingFunt]

This is nothing more than two lesbians saying "LOOK AT ME---LOOK AT ME"

The fact that it is a successful ploy for attention (if, in fact, that's what it is) says far more about our country's obsession with everyone's bedroom than it does about their lifestyle. If we, as a society, weren't so wrapped up in how everyone else chooses to live their life, you could have forty pregnant female-to-male transsexuals holding a rally to solicit attention and it wouldn't work because no one would give a fuck.

[lefty]

Nice to see that Inagra is building a family :tu

[DarkReign]

I am sure I am not the first person to say this, but...

She is not a man.

I am quite sick of seeing shit on TV that says "He's pregnant...again!"

He is not a fucking "he". She was born a woman that decided to cut her hair, wear guy clothes and paint a nasty mustache on her face.

And the lemmings in Oprah's audience lap that shit up. "Oh this" and "Oh that".

She is a chick, you fucking nitwits! Of course she got pregnant, she has a uterus for chrissakes!

/rant

[DarkReign]

So basically, I just have to knock my wife up, cut her hair, throw in some overalls with a painted soul patch, and I am on Oprah, right?

Because everyone in media-induced fairyland will think "Oh, thats so weird! He got pregnant! Where are my bon-bons..."

I mean, sh...I mean he could write a book, get on Oprah's book club, and instant million copies sold, right?

Greatest scheme ever.

[dimsah]

I am sure I am not the first person to say this, but...

She is not a man.

I am quite sick of seeing shit on TV that says "He's pregnant...again!"

He is not a fucking "he". She was born a woman that decided to cut her hair, wear guy clothes and paint a nasty mustache on her face.

And the lemmings in Oprah's audience lap that shit up. "Oh this" and "Oh that".

She is a chick, you fucking nitwits! Of course she got pregnant, she has a uterus for chrissakes!

/rant


+1
Human males do not bear children.

[Blake]

uh yeah, I'm with the "not a man" group on this one.

If it were really a "man" that were pregnant, then there would be no need to get off the "male hormones" in order to follow through with a friggin vaginal delivery.

the ones that want to say "no, it's really a man that's pregnant" are the same hippie tree hugging PCers that get shocked and offended when you use the word "handicapped" or "retarded" instead of "[insert problem here] challenged"

This chick is penally challenged. End of story.

[I. Hustle]

It's my understanding that her brain is a man's brain but her body is female. So I guess that means her brain has a penis. I wonder if she gets paralyzed every time her brain gets a boner.

[mrsmaalox]

It's my understanding that her brain is a man's brain but her body is female. So I guess that means her brain has a penis. I wonder if she gets paralyzed every time her brain gets a boner.

Just from the forehead up, like every other man.

[I. Hustle]

Just from the forehead up, like every other man.

:lol

[Blake]

It's my understanding that her brain is a man's brain but her body is female. So I guess that means her brain has a penis. I wonder if she gets paralyzed every time her brain gets a boner.

I bet she has more concussions that Troy Aikman

[CuckingFunt]

uh yeah, I'm with the "not a man" group on this one.

If it were really a "man" that were pregnant, then there would be no need to get off the "male hormones" in order to follow through with a friggin vaginal delivery.

the ones that want to say "no, it's really a man that's pregnant" are the same hippie tree hugging PCers that get shocked and offended when you use the word "handicapped" or "retarded" instead of "[insert problem here] challenged"

This chick is penally challenged. End of story.

Again, I don't think there's anyone who is claiming this is a case of a biological male being pregnant. That would be stupid. It is someone who identifies as male, and saying "he" is just a way of respecting that identity.

[I Love Me Some Me]

I'm not an alcoholic, I just like beer a lot.

[I Love Me Some Me]

My mom is white and my dad is hispanic, but in my mind I just KNOW that I'm a black man.


Is it reasonable of me to ask the people around me to think of me as black?

[CuckingFunt]

My mom is white and my dad is hispanic, but in my mind I just KNOW that I'm a black man.


Is it reasonable of me to ask the people around me to think of me as black?

Race =/= gender.

[I. Hustle]

My mom is white and my dad is hispanic, but in my mind I just KNOW that I'm a black man.


Is it reasonable of me to ask the people around me to think of me as black?

WHAT UP MY NIGGA?!

[I Love Me Some Me]

Race =/= gender.

But it does = sexual orientation?

You don't have to answer that.

[I Love Me Some Me]

WHAT UP MY NIGGA?!

:rollin

[CuckingFunt]

But it does = sexual orientation?

You don't have to answer that.

Depends on how much of sexual orientation is biologically determined, which is still unclear.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Depends on how much of sexual orientation is biologically determined, which is still unclear.

Why does that matter? Aren't race and gender biologically determined as well?

[CuckingFunt]

Why does that matter? Aren't race and gender biologically determined as well?

Race is biologically determined, sex is biologically determined, gender is not.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Race is biologically determined, sex is biologically determined, gender is not.

So in the case of this woman...since she was not biologically predisposed to think she was a man...what happened that made her decide that she was one? Was there an external force that influenced her frame of mind?

[CuckingFunt]

So in the case of this woman...since she was not biologically predisposed to think she was a man...what happened that made her decide that she was one? Was there an external force that influenced her frame of mind?

Honestly, I don't know. Biology may play a part in gender identity (and sexual orientation), but I don't know how or how much. It's not as simple as penis = male identified and vagina = female identified, though, which seems to be the argument in this thread.

[I Love Me Some Me]

Honestly, I don't know. Biology may play a part in gender identity (and sexual orientation), but I don't know how or how much. It's not as simple as penis = male identified and vagina = female identified, though, which seems to be the argument in this thread.

Well...this woman's psychology had nothing to do with the biological reproduction of a child. Her female anatomy is responsible for that. Therefore, SHE is pregnant, HE cannot be.

[CuckingFunt]

Well...this woman's psychology had nothing to do with the biological reproduction of a child. Her female anatomy is responsible for that. Therefore, SHE is pregnant, HE cannot be.


Again, I don't think there's anyone who is claiming this is a case of a biological male being pregnant. That would be stupid. It is someone who identifies as male, and saying "he" is just a way of respecting that identity.

[I Love Me Some Me]

^^gotcha!

thx

[Blake]

Again, I don't think there's anyone who is claiming this is a case of a biological male being pregnant. That would be stupid. It is someone who identifies as male, and saying "he" is just a way of respecting that identity.

No, but when I first saw an article about a "pregnant man", I clicked on it because, silly me, I thought it was a real man that was being reported on.

I got about halfway down the original article the first time this chick got pregnant before I read the fine print that said "transexual".

This whole media blitz has been purposely misleading to sell papers.

I actually had to argue with my wife that it wasn't really a dude that was coming on Oprah. She said "well why would Oprah say it's a pregnant man then?"

ugh.

[E20]

Who cares what this flaming faggot has to say or wants to do? Leave the guy/girl/it alone and ignore the attention whore.

[kwhitegocubs]

So my assertion about the nature of what we classify as "gendered" in terms of behavior and performance is not even worthy of discussion?

Last time I checked, our daily lives do not revolve around the presence of a vagina or penis. Do you people walk around staring for any sign of bulges or lack of bulge in people's pants or do you base your interactions on, say, actions, voice, mannerisms, interests, etc...

The only time SEX matters is in the actual act of intercourse, reproduction, or analyzing one's capability to pee standing up.

Gender is much broader, much more variable, and much more pertinent to everyday life!

[CuckingFunt]

So my assertion about the nature of what we classify as "gendered" in terms of behavior and performance is not even worthy of discussion?

Last time I checked, our daily lives do not revolve around the presence of a vagina or penis. Do you people walk around staring for any sign of bulges or lack of bulge in people's pants or do you base your interactions on, say, actions, voice, mannerisms, interests, etc...

The only time SEX matters is in the actual act of intercourse, reproduction, or analyzing one's capability to pee standing up.

Gender is much broader, much more variable, and much more pertinent to everyday life!

It's absolutely worthy of discussion, but all I'd be able to add is a rather uninteresting "I agree."

[I Love Me Some Me]

So my assertion about the nature of what we classify as "gendered" in terms of behavior and performance is not even worthy of discussion?

Last time I checked, our daily lives do not revolve around the presence of a vagina or penis. Do you people walk around staring for any sign of bulges or lack of bulge in people's pants or do you base your interactions on, say, actions, voice, mannerisms, interests, etc...

The only time SEX matters is in the actual act of intercourse, reproduction, or analyzing one's capability to pee standing up.

Gender is much broader, much more variable, and much more pertinent to everyday life!

Ok...so then how is GENDER defined in everyday life?

[I. Hustle]

Here is the thing. If she really wants to be taken seriously as a man then what's with the whole pregnancy. There is still some part of her that is holding on to her femininity because throughout everything she knows what she really is and that is a woman.
I understand that the partner can't have kids but oh well, that's the price you pay for being a "man".

[desflood]

Last time I checked, our daily lives do not revolve around the presence of a vagina or penis.
:lol

Have to laugh at that. Last time I checked, men's daily lives did indeed revolve around vagina.

[CuckingFunt]

Here is the thing. If she really wants to be taken seriously as a man then what's with the whole pregnancy. There is still some part of her that is holding on to her femininity because throughout everything she knows what she really is and that is a woman.
I understand that the partner can't have kids but oh well, that's the price you pay for being a "man".

Where's the law that says s/he has to be all the way one thing in order to be taken seriously? The fact that s/he hasn't had the full sex change operation would be a pretty clear indication that she wants to hold on to her female biology, and if that's her choice she's entitled to it.

[I. Hustle]

Where's the law that says s/he has to be all the way one thing in order to be taken seriously? The fact that s/he hasn't had the full sex change operation would be a pretty clear indication that she wants to hold on to her female biology, and if that's her choice she's entitled to it.

Cool then don't go around saying you are a man.

It's stupid to say yes I am definately a man. I know I was born with a vagina but in my heart I am a man. Oh wait. What? My SO can't have kids? I'M A WOMAN AGAIN! I'M A WOMAN! When I am done having babies then I will go back to being a man. Unless of course I see a shoe sale!

[Blake]

Race is biologically determined, sex is biologically determined, gender is not.

gimme a break. Now you're just getting bogged down in semantics. Gender and sex mean the same thing in most of the modernized countries of the world.

what if I were to darken my skin and curl my hair because while growing up even though the other white kids like to play the piano, I liked to play basketball which just proved what I had always known: I was a Black man on the inside.

Does that mean I now can apply to the United Negro College Fund?
Of course not. It's the same reason (most) sport organizations do not recognize a transgendered athlete. They don't want guys going around cutting off their manhoods just so they can go out and dominate the women's sports circuits.
If Yao had a sex change, even if underwent the hormone therapy, he would still average about 85 points a game because of his sheer size alone.

If you're a chick that uses hormone therapy to grow a beard and wants to look like a man, fine, just don't try to tell me you are a man if you get pregnant. It doesn't work and it confuses the hell out of my wife and kids that think you have a natural born peenus.

These media outlets aren't calling her a man because they are respecting her identity. They are calling her a man because they make more money by saying "look, we have a pregnant man on our show"

[Blake]

Where's the law that says s/he has to be all the way one thing in order to be taken seriously? The fact that s/he hasn't had the full sex change operation would be a pretty clear indication that she wants to hold on to her female biology, and if that's her choice she's entitled to it.

fine, but that does not make her a man.

The best I can label her as is a 'tweener. I guess she can play at either the two spot or the three spot.

[DarkReign]

First time I saw this chick, I could only think about one thing...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Juniorposter.jpg/406px-Juniorposter.jpg

Ahhhh, the magic between Devito and Arnold was sooooo god in Twins, they just had to work together again.

[CuckingFunt]

Cool then don't go around saying you are a man.

It's stupid to say yes I am definately a man. I know I was born with a vagina but in my heart I am a man. Oh wait. What? My SO can't have kids? I'M A WOMAN AGAIN! I'M A WOMAN! When I am done having babies then I will go back to being a man. Unless of course I see a shoe sale!

I guess I just don't see how this person's identity could possibly have an effect on your, or anyone else's, life. She identifies as a man in every other aspect of her life, but does that mean she's supposed to completely ignore the working, in tact plumbing when she and her partner want to have their own children? That's not my call to make.

As a queer-identified bisexual, I'm a member of the GLBT community. But this isn't my lifestyle. In fact, despite knowing several people who identify as transsexual (in all the ways one possibly can), it's not even a lifestyle that I particularly understand. Ultimately, however, it's a personal choice that doesn't require my approval, or anyone else's.

[I. Hustle]

I guess I just don't see how this person's identity could possibly have an effect on your, or anyone else's, life. She identifies as a man in every other aspect of her life, but does that mean she's supposed to completely ignore the working, in tact plumbing when she and her partner want to have their own children? That's not my call to make.

As a queer-identified bisexual, I'm a member of the GLBT community. But this isn't my lifestyle. In fact, despite knowing several people who identify as transsexual (in all the ways one possibly can), it's not even a lifestyle that I particularly understand. Ultimately, however, it's a personal choice that doesn't require my approval, or anyone else's.

That is fine and I can see your viewpoint. Mine is though if she is not looking for approval then why go on a million talk shows? Yes I know people will see her and ask questions but that is something she brought on herself. Putting it out there in the media the way she is is just begging for attention.

I have a friend that is lesbonic. Her partner looks like the dude of the two and dresses and acts like a guy for the most part. Upon looking at them you would think that she was the dominant "male" of the relationship. If you get to know them though you would see that the dainty one is the more like a male. The one that looks like a dude is the one trying to get pregnant. In fact she was pissed because they were trying before my wife and I were and our kid is already born. Why the hell should I feel bad for having the right equipment? They both know I don't agree with that stuff but when we go out for drinks or whatever they know that are always invited. They even show up.

[Blake]

I guess I just don't see how this person's identity could possibly have an effect on your, or anyone else's, life. She identifies as a man in every other aspect of her life, but does that mean she's supposed to completely ignore the working, in tact plumbing when she and her partner want to have their own children? That's not my call to make.

As a queer-identified bisexual, I'm a member of the GLBT community. But this isn't my lifestyle. In fact, despite knowing several people who identify as transsexual (in all the ways one possibly can), it's not even a lifestyle that I particularly understand. Ultimately, however, it's a personal choice that doesn't require my approval, or anyone else's.

this doesn't affect any of our lives on a personal level.

The question at the root of this is, "why the hell is this a story?"

It's a story because it says "pregnant man".

....even though it's not a real "man".

If the story told the truth, it wouldn't even be on the back page of her home town paper.
"Woman that looks like man is pregnant" = boring

[CuckingFunt]

That is fine and I can see your viewpoint. Mine is though if she is not looking for approval then why go on a million talk shows? Yes I know people will see her and ask questions but that is something she brought on herself. Putting it out there in the media the way she is is just begging for attention.

Oh, I've got huge problems with the attention whore element of this story. I don't know that it necessarily translates to seeking approval, though, which I would equate to asking permission.

I'm okay with the idea of presenting an alternative lifestyle choice in a manner that emphasizes the commonalities they have with straight couples -- wanting to raise a happy, healthy, well-adjusted family, etc. -- as I think that recognizing how much we all have in common is an important way of building tolerance and acceptance. But the fact that they appear to be specifically looking for fame really rubs me the wrong way.


I have a friend that is lesbonic. Her partner looks like the dude of the two and dresses and acts like a guy for the most part. Upon looking at them you would think that she was the dominant "male" of the relationship. If you get to know them though you would see that the dainty one is the more like a male.

Crazy theory, I know, but I'm guessing that if they're a lesbian couple, perhaps neither of them is the "male" in the relationship.

[I. Hustle]

Crazy theory, I know, but I'm guessing that if they're a lesbian couple, perhaps neither of them is the "male" in the relationship.

:lol I just meant the attitude. The dressing and trying to act like a guy.


Hey so we at least agree on the attention whore crap and how it is freakin annoying can we just agree to disagree on everything else?

[CuckingFunt]

Hey so we at least agree on the attention whore crap and how it is freakin annoying can we just agree to disagree on everything else?

That's been my suggestion since my third post in this thread.

[I. Hustle]

That's been my suggestion since my third post in this thread.

Then let's just kiss and make up http://myphoto.eu/img/smiles_dark/SmileyKissW_01.gif

[CuckingFunt]

Then let's just kiss and make up http://myphoto.eu/img/smiles_dark/SmileyKissW_01.gif

I don't swing that way.

[Tully365]

gimme a break. Now you're just getting bogged down in semantics. Gender and sex mean the same thing in most of the modernized countries of the world.

what if I were to darken my skin and curl my hair because while growing up even though the other white kids like to play the piano, I liked to play basketball which just proved what I had always known: I was a Black man on the inside.

Does that mean I now can apply to the United Negro College Fund?
Of course not. It's the same reason (most) sport organizations do not recognize a transgendered athlete. They don't want guys going around cutting off their manhoods just so they can go out and dominate the women's sports circuits.
If Yao had a sex change, even if underwent the hormone therapy, he would still average about 85 points a game because of his sheer size alone.

If you're a chick that uses hormone therapy to grow a beard and wants to look like a man, fine, just don't try to tell me you are a man if you get pregnant. It doesn't work and it confuses the hell out of my wife and kids that think you have a natural born peenus.

These media outlets aren't calling her a man because they are respecting her identity. They are calling her a man because they make more money by saying "look, we have a pregnant man on our show"

But just as there actually are people in this world who are literally both white and black (Our president-elect for one), Nature does occasionally produce actual hermaphrodites or intersexuals, who have characteristics of both genders. Granted, this isn't common, but it does happen. How would you classify them? Haven't you known women and men your entire life who clearly seem either much more or less feminine or masculine than their peers? I'd say that along with different socializing factors, a lot of it has to do with varying levels of testosterone, estrogen, etc-- these biological chemicals are very similar to drugs which the human body cannot resist reacting to. No one would reasonably expect a group of test subjects who've been given large doses of cocaine to behave as calmly as test subjects who've been given large doses of valium... and in my opinion, many of the chemicals, neurotransmitters, and other biological elements of human beings are pretty much the same.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

transgender
Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth.
If that preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly.

[Obstructed_View]

Dude's wife needs to get a vasectomy.

[Blake]

But just as there actually are people in this world who are literally both white and black (Our president-elect for one), Nature does occasionally produce actual hermaphrodites or intersexuals, who have characteristics of both genders. Granted, this isn't common, but it does happen. How would you classify them? Haven't you known women and men your entire life who clearly seem either much more or less feminine or masculine than their peers? I'd say that along with different socializing factors, a lot of it has to do with varying levels of testosterone, estrogen, etc-- these biological chemicals are very similar to drugs which the human body cannot resist reacting to. No one would reasonably expect a group of test subjects who've been given large doses of cocaine to behave as calmly as test subjects who've been given large doses of valium... and in my opinion, many of the chemicals, neurotransmitters, and other biological elements of human beings are pretty much the same.

that's not the issue here.

The issue is that this woman is being called a man when she is pretty clearly not a man. She is not a hermaphrodite and has no sign of any male parts other than what she has modified her body with.

Have you seen those people that think that they are animals? Like that tiger dude that tatooed his body with stripes and had long whiskers implanted?

If there was a chick that looked like a tiger and wants to be called a tiger that got pregnant, should the headline read: "Tiger pregnant with human baby"?

[Tully365]

that's not the issue here.

The issue is that this woman is being called a man when she is pretty clearly not a man. She is not a hermaphrodite and has no sign of any male parts other than what she has modified her body with.

Have you seen those people that think that they are animals? Like that tiger dude that tatooed his body with stripes and had long whiskers implanted?

If there was a chick that looked like a tiger and wants to be called a tiger that got pregnant, should the headline read: "Tiger pregnant with human baby"?

:lol Ah, but what if the analogy was more like this: a lion and a tiger mate: what do you call the offspring? Again, this is rare, but it does happen in nature. My point is more along the lines of I find it plausible that a person can have the outer signs of one gender but more the chemical make-up of the other gender. Most people react to people like this by pointing out the seemingly crossed wires of typical gender characteristics. If a bunch of regular guys sitting in a bar see a typical "bull dyke" walk in and she has large biceps, short hair, a thick neck, etc., the chances are one of them is going to say, "dude, she looks like a guy!" And in many ways, she does: due probably to a higher than average level of testosterone and other possible factors, she has more masculine and fewer feminine characteristics than the average woman.

[The sone]

slut

[Blake]

:lol Ah, but what if the analogy was more like this: a lion and a tiger mate: what do you call the offspring? Again, this is rare, but it does happen in nature. My point is more along the lines of I find it plausible that a person can have the outer signs of one gender but more the chemical make-up of the other gender. Most people react to people like this by pointing out the seemingly crossed wires of typical gender characteristics. If a bunch of regular guys sitting in a bar see a typical "bull dyke" walk in and she has large biceps, short hair, a thick neck, etc., the chances are one of them is going to say, "dude, she looks like a guy!" And in many ways, she does: due probably to a higher than average level of testosterone and other possible factors, she has more masculine and fewer feminine characteristics than the average woman.

who cares what you call the offspring? It has the genes of both. The only way this "man" was pregnant was that he wasn't a man at all.

at the end of the day, the bull dyke is still a woman

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Why is anyone in this thread arguing with CF? She is undoubtedly the forum expert on transgender matters. I mean, who here could have a firmer grasp on the issues than he does? As soon as I read her comments all I could say was "he's absolutely correct."

Lock this thread down because there's nothing more to discuss.

[Iakchos Kadmos]

Is ok. In Greece this story is publish so many times. You see our women are very hairy and sometimes to be having penis as well.

[Tully365]

who cares what you call the offspring? It has the genes of both. The only way this "man" was pregnant was that he wasn't a man at all.

at the end of the day, the bull dyke is still a woman

This debate is interesting, because there are other posters in different threads saying that Obama, despite having a white mother, should still be considered a black man because anyone seeing him on the street would see him as that. How do you stand on that subject?

[Blake]

This debate is interesting, because there are other posters in different threads saying that Obama, despite having a white mother, should still be considered a black man because anyone seeing him on the street would see him as that. How do you stand on that subject?

where do I stand? What, am I running for office? :lol

Have you seen Tropic Thunder where Robert Downey Jr is trying to come off as a Black man?

I wouldn't compare this woman to Obama at all.......I would compare her to Robert Downey Jr.

[Tully365]

where do I stand? What, am I running for office? :lol

Have you seen Tropic Thunder where Robert Downey Jr is trying to come off as a Black man?

I wouldn't compare this woman to Obama at all.......I would compare her to Robert Downey Jr.

:lol That might be the best comparison yet!

But even Eminem and Clarence Thomas deserve a shot at happiness, no?:lol

[Blake]

:lol That might be the best comparison yet!

But even Eminem and Clarence Thomas deserve a shot at happiness, no?:lol

of course they do, but if Eminem has another kid, I don't want to see the headlines read "Black rapper Eminem has another kid on the way"

[ashbeeigh]

On Larry King Live tonight (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/18/lkl.beatie.qanda/index.html) I won't be watching

[I. Hustle]

On Larry King Live tonight (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/18/lkl.beatie.qanda/index.html) I won't be watching

I'm with the rasist. I'm not watching either

[Shaolin-Style]

Dress and behave like a man and get pregnant and be famous basically?

Boring.

[The Franchise]

I am sure I am not the first person to say this, but...

She is not a man.

I am quite sick of seeing shit on TV that says "He's pregnant...again!"

He is not a fucking "he". She was born a woman that decided to cut her hair, wear guy clothes and paint a nasty mustache on her face.

And the lemmings in Oprah's audience lap that shit up. "Oh this" and "Oh that".

She is a chick, you fucking nitwits! Of course she got pregnant, she has a uterus for chrissakes!

/rant
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Now you're free to act how you want but the bottom line is natural facts just won't back your argument.

[johnsmith]

Why is anyone in this thread arguing with CF? She is undoubtedly the forum expert on transgender matters. I mean, who here could have a firmer grasp on the issues than he does? As soon as I read her comments all I could say was "he's absolutely correct."

Lock this thread down because there's nothing more to discuss.

:lol

[jack sommerset]

This is getting to be to much. Society decided it was OK for guys to have sex with each other (more often than not) and now look what it has turned into. Sex changes, guys getting pregnant,trannys, its time Society takes it back. Guys quick screwing each other. You are perverted.

[Creepn]

Very interesting topic. I honestly never seen it as the point of view as CF put it and thank you for that. But my initial reaction still aligns with Dark Reign's.

[CuckingFunt]

Why is anyone in this thread arguing with CF? She is undoubtedly the forum expert on transgender matters. I mean, who here could have a firmer grasp on the issues than he does? As soon as I read her comments all I could say was "he's absolutely correct."

Lock this thread down because there's nothing more to discuss.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5378/2709165395a9c0691efej7.jpg

[Tully365]

This is the Larry King Interview:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/18/lkl.beatie.qanda/

This is the part of the interview that might make Lou Reed go back and record another verse to Walk on the Wild Side:

King: Where did you learn how to do this? From the Internet, you said, right. You can't have the normal kind of intercourse, right?

Thomas: We can.

King: Oh.

Nancy: Not to make a baby.

Thomas: Because of hormones, my -- my clitoris has enlarged and it looks like a penis. I can have intercourse with my wife.

King: That's fascinating to me. I didn't know that. So you have a clitoris that looks likes a penis so it can fit into having love relations?

Thomas: Basically.

Nancy: I'm the mother.

Thomas: I'm the father.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Regardless of how "she" or "he" defines "her" or "him" self, there's nothing out of the ordinary going on here. This is a female (as in born with a woman's reproductive system) becoming pregnant through artificial insemination I imagine. The only place where she's a he is in her mind. I don't really understand what is news worthy about it. People are entitled to do whatever they want, but don't try and sell people on the whole "pregnant man" bullshit.

[ashbeeigh]

They were on The View today. they justified the media blitz by saying, "We needed legal advice...we're both listed as parents. We believe this is the first time this has happened..."

Yeah. Okay.