Crimes by air marshals raise questions about hiring [Archive]

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:02 PM

Crimes by air marshals raise questions about hiring

By Michael Grabell, ProPublica

Shawn Nguyen bragged that he could sneak anything past airport security using his top-secret clearance as a federal air marshal.

READ THE REST:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-11-12-air-marshals_N.htm

This is the front page, lead story of the USA Today, today.

If anyone is wondering how guns or special commando agents or patsies or poisonous gas or people dressed up like Arabs, or whatever happened on the planes on 9/11, now you know.

If it is an inside job, its easy.

Just ask Shawn Nguyen.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 03:05 PM

It was easy in 2001 when it was Islamic extremists with boxcutters and fake bombs.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:08 PM

It was easy in 2001 when it was Islamic extremists with boxcutters and fake bombs.

No, it wasn't easy. Many of the alleged hijackers were searched and were on terror watch lists.

Others were late and almost missed their flight.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 03:09 PM

But they made it on the planes. Much easier than it would be today.

boutons_

11-13-2008, 03:25 PM

TSA's airport shit is a song-and-dance routine to convince suckers that TSA is doing their job, and planes are secure. It has been violated numerous times by TSA's own attackers.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:36 PM

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 03:39 PM

Before 9/11, the Air Marshal Service was a nearly forgotten force of 33 agents with a $4.4 million annual budget.So pretty much every air marshal had to be in on it.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:41 PM

So pretty much every air marshal had to be in on it.

bad analysis. Please try again.

florige

11-13-2008, 03:42 PM

See it's idiots like this that make the hiring process such a pain in the ass when you are trying to get hired into federal law enforcement.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 03:43 PM

It's a great analysis. There were only 33 of them during the time of 9/11, so if marshals were used on 9/11, they would almost all have to have knowledge of the conspiracy.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:51 PM

It's a great analysis. There were only 33 of them during the time of 9/11, so if marshals were used on 9/11, they would almost all have to have knowledge of the conspiracy.

You don't get it.

It doesn't matter if the it was Air Marshals on 9/11. What matters is that someone with security clearance brought guns onto the planes. The guns were used to shoot the pilots, as reported by passengers on the hijacked planes.

FAA covering up 9-11 gun,
whistleblower agent says
Claims feds, American Airlines fear lawsuits;
Flight 11 victims' families want Hill probe
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=12955

Context of '9:27 a.m. September 11, 2001: Flight 93 Passenger Tom Burnett Calls Wife Using Cell Phone; Reports that His Plane Has Been Hijacked'
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a927burnettcalls

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 03:55 PM

Right, people with security clearance decided to commit suicide that day so the US could invade Afghanistan.

Makes perfect sense.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 03:58 PM

Maybe they just brought the guns on board and then got off the plane?

How do you get guns on board four flights at the same time without security clearance?

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Maybe they just brought the guns on board and then got off the plane?So other people could commit suicide. Yeah, right.

How do you get guns on board four flights at the same time without security clearance?You don't.

But back then you could get boxcutters and utility knives on quite easily.

That's what actually happened.

clambake

11-13-2008, 04:18 PM

135K per air marshall annually.

not bad.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 04:31 PM

So other people could commit suicide. Yeah, right.

You don't.

But back then you could get boxcutters and utility knives on quite easily.

That's what actually happened.

even though the passengers who called in said the hijackers had guns.

doobs

11-13-2008, 04:39 PM

A 9/11 conspiracy thread?

:td

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 04:51 PM

even though the passengers who called in said the hijackers had guns.Not all of them, and the ones that did probably didn't have a good view of what was going on up at the front of the plane.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 04:58 PM

Galileo

11-13-2008, 04:59 PM

A 9/11 conspiracy thread?

:td

No, a single man hijacked four planes at the same time.

:wow

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 07:26 PM

They had a good enough view to see the guns.

Tom Burnett on FL93, Betty Ong on FL11, and Amy Sweeney on FL11 all called for help and saw guns.

You weren't there. They were. Please respect the dead and do not second guess them.But they weren't there.

The calls were faked.

That's what you said in another thread.

Make up your mind.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 08:08 PM

But they weren't there.

The calls were faked.

That's what you said in another thread.

Make up your mind.

I never said the calls were faked. You are a conspiracy theorist!

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 08:12 PM

I never said the calls were faked.

Do you have the full transcripts of these calls?

Galileo

11-13-2008, 08:19 PM

I never said the calls were faked.

Do you have the full transcripts of these calls?

There were dozens of calls made to 911 from the planes on 9/11. Almost all of the transcripts and recordings of these calls are either lost or missing.

As you may know, 911 calls are always recorded, and 911 call tapes are used to solve crimes all the time.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 08:20 PM

Here is a transcript of Ong's call.

http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-09-11-FBI-FD302-betty-ong-transcript.pdf

No mention of a gun at all.

She mentions mace or something similar was used and says a passenger was stabbed.

:lol at your trying to say it was lost or missing.

You are a liar.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 08:27 PM

That's not the complete transcript. She called at around 8:20 and was on the phone for 25 minutes. What happened to the other 20 minutes? You are cherry-picking.

FAA staff wrote a memo which states that Ong said the passengers had guns. She even gave the exact seat numbers.

You are a bold faced liar.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 08:28 PM

So give me those memos.

Galileo

11-13-2008, 08:29 PM

So give me those memos.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images2/faa911memoside.jpg

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 08:38 PM

Yeah, that looks official.

So was that one story on one plane confirmed in any way?

Galileo

11-13-2008, 08:43 PM

Yeah, that looks official.

So was that one story on one plane confirmed in any way?

World Net Daily obtained the memo. They are a conservative news organization.

Face it. You're wrong. The hijackers had guns. That's why almost all of the dozens of 911 calls have been lost.

Deena Burnett has done several interviews over the years, each time emphasizing that her husband, Tom Burnett, clearly specified that the hijackers had guns.

That's how all the hiajcking were so quick and clean, they had guns. No sloppy boxcutter hijackings here.

FL93 was not hijacked until around 9:25, over an hour after the first hijackings, and after the towers had been hit. The crew was ready on FL93. but the hijackers got it anyway because they had guns.

ChumpDumper

11-13-2008, 08:50 PM

World Net Daily obtained the memo. They are a conservative news organization.
Another Flight 11 crew member, Madeline Amy Sweeney, also had the presence of mind to phone from the plane. She reported to American flight services manager Michael Woodward, on the ground at Boston's Logan International Airport, that two fellow flight attendants had been stabbed, as WorldNetDaily first reported the evening of Sept. 11.

That phone conversation was not recorded, Hotard says, but Woodward took notes in shorthand and later wrote them out in longhand for FBI agents.

The FBI, in turn, summarized his account in an investigative document that was later leaked to the Los Angeles Times.

In the Sept. 20 Times article, Sweeney is quoted as saying: "A hijacker also cut the throat of a business-class passenger, and he appears to be dead."

It's not clear if she was referring to Lewin.

[FAA spokeswoman Laura] Brown says the memo, a summary of events prepared for top FAA officials, was a first draft and riddled with mistakes, including inaccurate times and passenger names in the summaries of the other three hijacked flights that day.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26632

:lol

Another conspiracy theory goes poof.

Wild Cobra

11-13-2008, 09:55 PM

I should have known better than to click on a thread started by Galileo, but since there were 30 responces...

Galileo, when will you ever give up your BS?

[/Wild Cobras' interest in this thread]

Aggie Hoopsfan

11-13-2008, 09:59 PM

Right, people with security clearance decided to commit suicide that day so the US could invade Afghanistan.

Makes perfect sense.

:lmao

/thread

Galileo

11-14-2008, 02:29 PM

I should have known better than to click on a thread started by Galileo, but since there were 30 responces...

Galileo, when will you ever give up your BS?

[/Wild Cobras' interest in this thread]

You think the USA Today made this stuff up? Please spare us your fantasies.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 02:33 PM

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26632

:lol

Another conspiracy theory goes poof.

The memo provides specific information, including the exact seat mumbers. Laura Brown is not a witness either. She didn't take the call. The person who took the call is the witness.

Let's listen to the whole tape of the calls by Ong and Sweeney. Oh, that's right, they lost the recordings. Right. That's how you solve crimes, lose the 9/11 tapes.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 02:36 PM

The memo provides specific information, including the exact seat mumbers. Laura Brown is not a witness either. She didn't take the call. The person who took the call is the witness.

Let's listen to the whole tape of the calls by Ong and Sweeney. Oh, that's right, they lost the recordings. Right. That's how you solve crimes, lose the 9/11 tapes.What part of "That phone conversation was not recorded" do you not understand.

Damn, you are stupid.

LnGrrrR

11-14-2008, 02:38 PM

Security in most places is a joke. You could get into most military bases by pretending to be a pizza delivery person :P

Galileo

11-14-2008, 03:28 PM

What part of "That phone conversation was not recorded" do you not understand.

Damn, you are stupid.

Why was an emergency 911 call from a hijacked plane not recorded? These tapes are used for crime solving.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 03:29 PM

What part of "That phone conversation was not recorded" do you not understand.

Damn, you are stupid.

Which 911 calls were recorded and which ones were not? Give me the list. There were dozens of calls made to 911. Where are the calls?

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 03:39 PM

Galileo,
You have convinced me. A member of spurstalk.com has been totally persuaded by your side of the argument. You win. The world will now be much better off because I promise to start helping you in spreading the truth.

Now will you stop fucking making shitty threads about 9/11 conspiracy theories you whacked out fucktard.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 03:48 PM

Why was an emergency 911 call from a hijacked plane not recorded? These tapes are used for crime solving.

Which 911 calls were recorded and which ones were not? Give me the list. There were dozens of calls made to 911. Where are the calls?The calls we have been talking about were not made to a 911 service.

It's amazing just how ignorant you are.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:00 PM

The calls we have been talking about were not made to a 911 service.

It's amazing just how ignorant you are.

When airplane staff make emergency calls from airplanes, the calls are always recorded, except on 9/11 it seems. Becasue if the plane crashes, the call is important evidence to know what happened.

You still haven't explained why only one 4-minute segment of a 25-minute call, is all that has survived from the dozens of emergency calls made that day.

Detailed Account of Telephone Calls From September 11th Flights
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/calldetail.html

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:05 PM

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:06 PM

The calls we have been talking about were not made to a 911 service.

It's amazing just how ignorant you are.

Why was legislation not passed after 9/11 to put armed air marshals on planes to prevent hijackings with "boxcutters"?

Maybe because the hijackers had guns, eh?

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 04:06 PM

you would make a good federal Air Marshal, corrupt and stupid is a rare combo.

So let me get this straight, me calling you a fucktard = corrupt?

Gosh, I can't imagine why no one takes your conclusions serious.

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 04:07 PM

Why was legislation not passed after 9/11 to put armed air marshals on planes to prevent hijackings with "boxcutters"?

Maybe because the hijackers had guns, eh?

So you think we should have put air marshalls on planes with equal sized boxcutters so that the playing field would have been even?

Good lord you're dumb.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:08 PM

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:10 PM

So you think we should have put air marshalls on planes with equal sized boxcutters so that the playing field would have been even?

Good lord you're dumb.

Jack lord you're stupid.

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 04:10 PM

Chumper;

You continue to change the subject. How does Laura Brown know the hijackers didn't have guns, when the person taking the emergency call gave specific information about who shot who, how many shots, and the exact seat numbers?

Did you know the Laura Brown is a government employee?

She was pressured into that statement.

It's so obvious to me now. I mean, all the assumptions that you make that aren't backed up by any credible facts whatsoever have once again made me a believer.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:11 PM

So let me get this straight, me calling you a fucktard = corrupt?

Gosh, I can't imagine why no one takes your conclusions serious.

I am Galileo, founder of the Scientific Revolution! Obey authority!

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 04:11 PM

Jack lord you're stupid.

Sweet, the "I know you are but what am I" reply.

Ok, let's do this then...........I know you are but what am I?

johnsmith

11-14-2008, 04:12 PM

I am Galileo, founder of the Scientific Revolution! Obey authority!

Wow.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:15 PM

When airplane staff make emergency calls from airplanes, the calls are always recorded, except on 9/11 it seems. Becasue if the plane crashes, the call is important evidence to know what happened.Not every number that an Airphone can call has the capability to record the call.

You still haven't explained why only one 4-minute segment of a 25-minute call, is all that has survived from the dozens of emergency calls made that day.That is all that has been released. I have seen nothing saying the recordings that were actually made were lost or destroyed. My guess is there was a lot of time when nothing was said as the people Ong was speaking to were talking to other people trying to figure out what to do.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:19 PM

Why was legislation not passed after 9/11 to put armed air marshals on planes to prevent hijackings with "boxcutters"?It was. It's in the article that you linked in your first post but apparently failed to read or understand.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:21 PM

Chumper;

You continue to change the subject. How does Laura Brown know the hijackers didn't have guns, when the person taking the emergency call gave specific information about who shot who, how many shots, and the exact seat numbers?

Did you know the Laura Brown is a government employee?

She was pressured into that statement.Where is your evidence that she was pressured?

The call's notes were in shorthand and subject to misinterpretation.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:29 PM

Where is your evidence that she was pressured?

The call's notes were in shorthand and subject to misinterpretation.

How would the three hijackers on FL93 take over the plane with boxcutters, after losing the element of surprise?

Why did you ask for the FAA memo, and then after I provided it, then you say it doesn't matter? You are playing a shell game.

Where does an FAA manager get the authority to change an eyewitness report from a staff member?

Where's your evidence that the notes were subject to misinterpretation? The person who took the call from Ong and/or Sweeney would know that, not Laura Brown.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:31 PM

Not every number that an Airphone can call has the capability to record the call.

That is all that has been released. I have seen nothing saying the recordings that were actually made were lost or destroyed. My guess is there was a lot of time when nothing was said as the people Ong was speaking to were talking to other people trying to figure out what to do.

The calls are lost because they contain information that contradicts the "official" fairy tale.

The calls are recorded at AA headquarters. They have to be, per regulations.

The only calls not recorded are calls to family members.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:32 PM

Wow.

The article says that several Air Marshals have been convicted of conspiracy charges. So it is no longer a theory.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:32 PM

The calls are lost because they contain information that contradicts the "official" fairy tale.There is nothing that says any recordings were lost.

The calls are recorded at AA headquarters. They have to be, per regulations.Please give me a link to those regulations.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 04:34 PM

It was. It's in the article that you linked in your first post but apparently failed to read or understand.

Only a small proportion of flights have armed Air Marshals since 9/11. If 9/11 was really carried out by people with boxcutters, all flights should have an armed guard on them.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:41 PM

Only a small proportion of flights have armed Air Marshals since 9/11.According to the article you posted but are too stupid to understand, the number of armed air marshals has increased by 12,000% (that's twelve thousand percent) since 9/11.

If 9/11 was really carried out by people with boxcutters, all flights should have an armed guard on them.They are much closer to that than they were before 9/11. There have also been many other safety measures adopted to secure the planes and especially the cockpits. Maybe you should read up on them.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 04:54 PM

From the notes of the 9-11 Commission Report:

25.An early draft of an executive summary prepared by FAA security staff for the agency's leadership referred to an alleged report of a shooting aboard Flight 11.We believe this report was erroneous for a number of reasons- there is no evidence that the hijackers purchased firearms, use of a gun would be inconsistent with the otherwise common tactics employed by the hijackers, the alleged shooting victim was seated where witness accounts place the stabbing victim (9B), and, most important, neither Betty Ong nor Amy Sweeney, the only two people who communicated to the ground from aboard the aircraft, reported the presence of a gun or a shooting. Both reported knives and stabbings. AAL transcript, telephone call from Betty Ong to Nydia Gonzalez, Sept. 11, 2001;AAL transcript, telephone call from Nydia Gonzalez to Craig Marquis, Sept. 11, 2001; AAL transcript, telephone call from Nancy Wyatt to Ray Howland, Sept. 11, 2001; Michael Woodward interview (Jan. 25, 2004).The General Accounting Office looked into the gun story and was unable to corroborate it. GAO report, summary of briefing re investigation, Aug. 30, 2002.

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Notes.htm

Galileo

11-14-2008, 06:46 PM

From the notes of the 9-11 Commission Report:

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Notes.htm

You can buy guns on the black market. Betty Ong and Amy Sweeney did report a gun, that's why it was in the FAA memo.

This note from the commission doesn't say there wasn't a gun, they just say "we believe" there wasn't a gun, which of course leaves them covered when more evidence of the gun is released.

The transcript referred to doesn't actually give us a the transcript, or let us hear the complete tape. Nor is there a transcript of Sweeney's call mentioned, only Ong's call.

The 9/11 Commission never interviewed the people who took Ong's and Sweeney's calls, which is why it is a bogus investigation.

There were about 80 people on board, so whoever wrote the FAA memo may have had information from other passengers or staff about the gun as well. The 9/11 Commission never interviewed the person who wrote the FAA memo, another proof that the "investigation" is bogus.

Also, there was a documented gun on FL93, so why not a gun on FL11 as well?

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 06:55 PM

You can buy guns on the black market. Betty Ong and Amy Sweeney did report a gun, that's why it was in the FAA memo.You didn't even read the memo correctly.

Ong NEVER reported a gun.

This note from the commission doesn't say there wasn't a gun, they just say "we believe" there wasn't a gun, which of course leaves them covered when more evidence of the gun is released.What evidence?

The transcript referred to doesn't actually give us a the transcript, or let us hear the complete tape. Nor is there a transcript of Sweeney's call mentioned, only Ong's call.There is no transcript of Sweeney's call because it was not recorded.

The 9/11 Commission never interviewed the people who took Ong's and Sweeney's calls, which is why it is a bogus investigation.Nydia Gonzalez was interviewed by and testified before the 9/11 Commission.

There were about 80 people on board, so whoever wrote the FAA memo may have had information from other passengers or staff about the gun as well.No. The GAO investigated the claim and found nothing.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 07:04 PM

Galileo

11-14-2008, 07:33 PM

Here's Nydia Gonzalez' statement to the 9/11 Commission:

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/hearings/hearing7/witness_gonzalez.pdf

Let me know where she talks about a gun.

You have been exposed as a liar once more.

She never said there wasn't a gun. That report is way too short to describe a 25-minute phone call.

Let's cut out the middle-man and listen to the actual phone call.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 07:35 PM

There is no transcript of Sweeney's call because it was not recorded.

Why wasn't Sweeney's call recorded? When a stewardess makes an emergency call from a flight in distress, they are always recorded.

Galileo

11-14-2008, 07:40 PM

You didn't even read the memo correctly.

Ong NEVER reported a gun.

What evidence?

There is no transcript of Sweeney's call because it was not recorded.

Nydia Gonzalez was interviewed by and testified before the 9/11 Commission.

No. The GAO investigated the claim and found nothing.

The person who wrote the FAA memo was not interviewed by the 9/11 Commission. Hence, a bogus "investigation".

Also, more than one person was on the phone line, after Ong and Sweeney called in. What happened to the other people who listened?

It is easy to rig testimony when important witnesses are left out.

Also, the FAA memeo was written right after 9/11, when memories were still fresh and befor the feds could apply pressure. The 9/11 Commission testimony was taken years later and is not reliable.

You have been exposed as a liar again for the third time.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 07:43 PM

Why wasn't Sweeney's call recorded? When a stewardess makes an emergency call from a flight in distress, they are always recorded.No, they are not. If the recipient doesn't have the means to record the call, it is not recorded. You are too stupid to realize this.

ChumpDumper

11-14-2008, 07:46 PM

The person who wrote the FAA memo was not interviewed by the 9/11 Commission. Hence, a bogus "investigation".

Also, more than one person was on the phone line, after Ong and Sweeney called in. What happened to the other people who listened?The 9/11 Commission is not the only investigation that ever took place.

It is easy to rig testimony when important witnesses are left out.So you are calling Nydia Gonzalez, the American Airlines employee who spoke to Betty Ong right before she died, a liar. You are despicable.

Also, the FAA memeo was written right after 9/11, when memories were still fresh and befor the feds could apply pressure.What pressure?

The 9/11 Commission testimony was taken years later and is not reliable.Sure it is.

You have been exposed as a liar again for the third time.I haven't lied once. This thread is filled with your lies.