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averageusaconsumer
11-13-2008, 11:21 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27705755/?gt1=43001

COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.

"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exits constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."

Risking their immortal soul
During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.

But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers — and voters — should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.

According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County — traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas — went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.

"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."

ChumpDumper
11-13-2008, 11:32 PM
Eh, just repent -- then it's all the Host you can eat!

Nbadan
11-13-2008, 11:40 PM
How about anyone who covers up child molestation shouldn't get communion?

exstatic
11-14-2008, 12:00 AM
And the Catholic church will continue to lose members....

exstatic
11-14-2008, 12:00 AM
How about anyone who covers up child molestation shouldn't get communion?

How about they can't dispense it, either?

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 12:37 AM
Yes, NBAdan, it is clear from the fact that he is a Catholic priest that he MUST have engaged in covering up child molestation. Despite the fact that he is a priest and not a bishop or Cardinal actually with authority over such matters.

It comes down to this - if you don't agree with the Catholic church's stance on abortion, then find some sympathetic priests and start a new (heretical to them) version of the Church - like every denomination has done since the Reformation.

Nbadan
11-14-2008, 01:31 AM
Good grief...Dubya also supported abortion, since it currently is a constitutional right and law. He did this with a 5/4 majority in the Supreme Court (which was enough to decide the 2000 election) and 6 years of the Republicans having both houses of Congress.

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 01:50 AM
He didn't support abortion - it's just that the only way to take it down is by appointing Supreme Court Justices that are amenable to the pro-life/anti-abortion cause. He certainly did that with the appointment of Roberts and (especially) Alito.

I don't really understand the tangent you are creating.

Nbadan
11-14-2008, 02:00 AM
He didn't support abortion - it's just that the only way to take it down is by appointing Supreme Court Justices that are amenable to the pro-life/anti-abortion cause. He certainly did that with the appointment of Roberts and (especially) Alito.

So abortion was sent back to the states? Did I miss something?

ElNono
11-14-2008, 02:07 AM
Social tool to control a segment of society...

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 02:23 AM
So abortion was sent back to the states? Did I miss something?

C'mon, don't be an ass. I said that the only way to change it was through the Supreme Court. He appointed Conservatives to the Court. In other words, he SUPPORTED a return to the states. Just because nobody liberal (or Kennedy, a swing) died or retired after that doesn't mean that Bush is reponsible for it not being overturned!

I don't get why you are even making an issue of it. You KNOW what I meant and it was quite clear in both context and wording. You misrepresented Bush's position, whether you or I agree with them or not. That was the point.

Nbadan
11-14-2008, 02:26 AM
My point is that - Well, your wrong....Even if Kennedy had retired and a more conservative Judge was appointed, they still wouldn't overturn RoevWade...it would be very politically costly for the GOP...

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 02:50 AM
Point A) What? Why wouldn't they? The four conservatives on the court are VERY anti-Roe v. Wade. And it's also quite clear that Bush made abortion a litmus test.

Point B) How does your assumption that they wouldn't do it constitute a represenation of Bush's ACTUAL ACTIONS involving abortion? I argued with facts, and you are using your own ASSUMPTIONS about what they would do as PROOF of their intent!

Point C) How would it be any more costly politically to the GOP? They already trumpet the abortion issue loudly to all who will listen. Bush was elected twice because of so-called "values voters". And the current split in party votes for House, Senate, and Presidency are pretty close to the national opinions on abortion (which are generally more nuanced than most on either side will admit.

Nbadan
11-14-2008, 03:24 AM
Point A) What? Why wouldn't they? The four conservatives on the court are VERY anti-Roe v. Wade. And it's also quite clear that Bush made abortion a litmus test.

While this issue has been narrowing, there still exists about a 60-40 split in support of a women's choice and whether we want to admit it or not, the Robert's Supreme Court is heavily influenced by the political will of the GOP...Republicans know what got them to power - the vote of women...do they want to risk alienating 60% of that voting bloc? I think not, so even if Kennedy had retired, you'd get another 'conservative judge', likely Thomas, that would act as the impediment toward overturning RoevWade...

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 03:36 AM
Actually, women voted for Gore, Kerry, and Obama in far greater numbers than men. White men got the Repubs into power. The vast majority of women who DID vote for the Repubs over that span are pro-life.

The split is about 56-41 I believe (so close to 60-40 I'll admit) on approving of abortion in general. However, a larger majority are opposed to post-6 months abortion than are in favor of abortion in general. The more paramaters pollsters devise, the more nuanced and murky the nature of our nation's opinion on abortion is.

MannyIsGod
11-14-2008, 03:44 AM
Wanting the issue returned to the states is pro abortion IMO. I mean if you're anti abortion woudln't you just ban it outright? I guess nuance works when you're a GOP candidate.

I would walk out of a church if a priest ever said something like this to me, but then again I'd have to actually walk into a catholic church for the first time in a long ass time for that to happen.

Nbadan
11-14-2008, 03:58 AM
Wanting the issue returned to the states is pro abortion IMO. I mean if you're anti abortion woudln't you just ban it outright? I guess nuance works when you're a GOP candidate.

I would walk out of a church if a priest ever said something like this to me, but then again I'd have to actually walk into a catholic church for the first time in a long ass time for that to happen.

Ultimately this is what abortion opponents want, they want this to be decided on a state by state basis...

kwhitegocubs
11-14-2008, 04:08 AM
Right. Clearly states like New York (well, all of the Northeast) and California and Illinois will never outlaw abortion.

I would guess that the Bible Belt and some of the Plains/West (Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming come to mind) would outlaw it or even amend their state constitutions to restrict it at least.

MannyIsGod
11-14-2008, 04:13 AM
Ultimately this is what abortion opponents want, they want this to be decided on a state by state basis...

Dan I realize that. My post was littered with sarcasm to make a point about nuance.

ploto
11-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Given that McCain supports the death penalty and the Church just as strongly opposes it, I guess anyone who voted for McCain can't go to communion either.

You will never find a Presidential candidate who stands for EVERYTHING the Church stands for and thus you will always vote for someone who is not in total agreement with Church teaching.

I will never understand how anyone can call someone pro-life who is pro-death penalty.

spurster
11-14-2008, 11:22 AM
Well, would you want to give Communion to supporters of the Antichrist?

desflood
11-14-2008, 11:25 AM
but then again I'd have to actually walk into a catholic church for the first time in a long ass time for that to happen.
Be honest. You would burst into flames, wouldn't you?

MannyIsGod
11-14-2008, 11:58 AM
Be honest. You would burst into flames, wouldn't you?

Maybe but thats why they have the holy water right be the door, right?

Anti.Hero
11-14-2008, 12:11 PM
It's for their own good.

The holy water would kill them.