George Hill is not Tony Parker

[peacemaker885]

He is his own player. Props to this rookie who laid it all out tonight.

[HarlemHeat37]

great defender, much improved finisher, has some of the most heart I've seen for a rookie in a while..the front office has done it again..

[Udokafan05]

Already owns Yao

[SpursFan0728]

retire JV PLEASE

[timtonymanu]

no he isnt, but he's certainly the next best PG we had backing up TP.

Beno who?

[SpursPreacher]

He is all out ballplayer bottom line.

[VaSpursFan]

all it took was pop trusting him, getting comfy in the system and confidence. he's not thinking like he was in summer league, he just balling on natural instinct.

[wijayas]

He is becoming one after tonight...

[Tully365]

Hill tonight: 35+ minutes, 17 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, ZERO turnovers. Anyone still doubting him as a late first round draft pick is crazy. If Manu starts alongside Parker, Hill and Mason have the potential to be one of the best backcourt 2nd teams in the league.

[picnroll]

What are the chances Mr Body shows up here to eat crow?

[urunobili]

his dynamic with Mason is also improving... impressive...

[VaSpursFan]

Hill tonight: 35+ minutes, 17 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, ZERO turnovers. Anyone still doubting him as a late first round draft pick is crazy. If Manu starts alongside Parker, Hill and Mason have the potential to be one of the best backcourt 2nd teams in the league.

+1. still don't know why so many gave up on him after summer league when he hadn't even been through training camp. as he gets more comfortable in the system, i expect more performances like tonight

[mVp]

George FUCKING Hill !!!!!

[timvp]

It's amazing the improvement he's made since summer league. In summer league, he was one of the worst finishers I've ever seen.

In this game against the Rockets, you had to do a double take to make sure it wasn't TP.

[tlongII]

Okay. I will give Hill his due. He's looking good.

[TDMVPDPOY]

where are the chalmer supporters?

[Hemotivo]

he's better

[picnroll]

Nice ballhandler too. Can actually bring the ball up court against please unlike a certain Slovenian former Spur PG.

[Spurs Brazil]

Great game

I hope he keep playing agressive

[timvp]

Nice ballhandler too. Can actually bring the ball up court against please unlike a certain Slovenian former Spur PG.Hill has four turnovers in 135 minutes this season. That was a quarter for Beno against Lindsey Hunter.

[lefty]

Impressive.

Great win, without Manu and TP

We'll be very strong when we'll be 100% healthy

[tomtom]

Loving hill. Yeah he wasn't looking great early on back in summer league but props to him for an excellent outing and a good looking future

[leemajors]

It's amazing the improvement he's made since summer league. In summer league, he was one of the worst finishers I've ever seen.

In this game against the Rockets, you had to do a double take to make sure it wasn't TP.

should the rockets have let hill slip past them in the draft? :stirpot:

[Josepatches]

Time to trade TP for a young small forward and a young center.We could win the NBA every year until Duncan and Manu retire

[timtonymanu]

Beno who?
Mario who?
Jannero who?

[anakha]

Time to trade TP for a young small forward and a young center.We could win the NBA every year until Duncan and Manu retire

Easy there, Seabiscuit.

[Hemotivo]

:lol

[Kori Ellis]

Easy there, Seabiscuit.

:lol It's okay, he's willing to trade TP for any reason. This is just another excuse.

[picnroll]

Pretty good bet by next year Spurs will be getting some pretty nice offers for Hill. Not that they should bite.

[itzsoweezee]

Hill is this year's Stuckey

what impressed me most about Hill was his defense. he was especially effective in the press.

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs offense is very good when someone's trying to get to the rim, and so bad when they aren't. Glad George finally woke up.

[timvp]

Pretty good bet by next year Spurs will be getting some pretty nice offers for Hill. Not that they should bite.

Yeah, the Spurs need to hold onto him. They don't exactly have a good track record of trading young prospects for equal value.

[Anti.Hero]

Tim Duncan. Tony Parker. Manu Ginobili. Pop. Playoffs.

Hill is being mentored by some hardcore top level clutch.

[jayc23]

gotta say it...


I told ya so.

[SequSpur]

gotta say it...


I told ya so.

stfu.

[DROB4EVER]

Hill will likely be a better defender then tony and likely a better 3pt shooter. He will never be able to get to the rim as easy as TP but he could become a better pure point guard.

Man I hope Ian comes in and is just as good as hill has been.

[K-State Spur]

Hill has four turnovers in 135 minutes this season. That was a quarter for Beno against Lindsey Hunter.

Haha. My first thought when I saw that Hunter was signed by the Bulls was that Beno was going to come up with a lame hammy when those two teams meet.

[anakha]

stfu.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101297


George Hill is a waste of time

[jayc23]

stfu.

nice want me to look up all the posts where I argued with your short ass about Hill's ability... go away your a fool

[jayc23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101297

thanks for giving me my new forum sig.

[cool hand]

Hill tonight: 35+ minutes, 17 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, ZERO turnovers. Anyone still doubting him as a late first round draft pick is crazy. If Manu starts alongside Parker, Hill and Mason have the potential to be one of the best backcourt 2nd teams in the league.



back the fuck up. its one fucking game.

[picnroll]

nice want me to look up all the posts where I argued with your short ass about Hill's ability... go away your a fool

While your at it look up all the times in years past he slammed Parker who he'd now rather sleep with than his wife. That's the Sequ schtick.

[SequSpur]

nice want me to look up all the posts where I argued with your short ass about Hill's ability... go away your a fool

asswipe... he didn't do shit in the summer league. are you denying that? actually the NBA is easier.. he won a GAME.. one.. the spurs are still 2 and 5 you frickin Hill Homer.

that shit doesn't cut it... we'll see how he does, but yes, he is doing well. Even I can say that. :tu

[peacemaker885]

Wonder if anyone say Manu jump out of his seat and clenched his fist in the 2nd quarter when Hill drove against Yao from a Tim screen. Its only one game but I hope George maintains his aggressiveness. It would be very interesting how Pop will balance minutes when Tony comes back.

[SequSpur]

While your at it look up all the times in years past he slammed Parker who he'd now rather sleep with than his wife. That's the Sequ schtick.

Parker is the best player in the NBA. Go see if you can find something Indiana Jones.

[SpursFanFirst]

gotta say it...


I told ya so.

:tu Good job!

Thing is, Hill wasn't going to get any respect from posters until he played games like this.
He did, after all, come from IUPUI and not Duke, Kansas, or some other well known school.

Everyone knows stars can only come from the BIG schools. :blah

[jayc23]

Ya he turned down florida.. that back fired in his face....

[SenorSpur]

No he's TP. However he's proven again that he's a more than capable backup PF. Tenacious defender, great quicks, dribble penetration and some timely shooting. Once he get's more comfortable running the team - look out.

Hill really earned his Spurs tonight. :lol

[Spurtacus]

Things are looking brighter in SA. Hope he can continue the strong play on both sides of the court.

[jayc23]

asswipe... he didn't do shit in the summer league. are you denying that? actually the NBA is easier.. he won a GAME.. one.. the spurs are still 2 and 5 you frickin Hill Homer.

that shit doesn't cut it... we'll see how he does, but yes, he is doing well. Even I can say that. :tu

you wrote him off you tool.. stfu.. you didnt say.. "he shot badly in summer league.. lets see how he adjusts after camp"

"I said wait for him to get comfortable in the spurs system.. camp will do him a world of good... and NBA mentorship, will quickly progress his game, he has a high BBall IQ"...

I got told by homers like you "YA HES GOING TO TURN FROM NOT being an NBA PLAYER TO AN NBA PLAYER MAGICALLY AFTER A WEEK AND A HALF"... ya like ive said before.. go fuck yourself

[Buddy Holly]

asswipe... he didn't do shit in the summer league. are you denying that? actually the NBA is easier.. he won a GAME.. one.. the spurs are still 2 and 5 you frickin Hill Homer.

Bonner didn't START and the Spurs are 3-5 you stupid MIDGET.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'll settle for him being another Speedy Claxton

[Obstructed_View]

I'll settle for him being another Speedy Claxton

Hurt for most of the year, and able to hit a couple of 18 foot jumpers in one game? :wow

[timvp]

Hill seems like he could become half Parker, half Monta Ellis and half Antonio Daniels.

:drunk

[spursfan09]

George Hill was awesome! nice to know we finally have a reliable pg to back up TP.

[Manufan909]

Bonner didn't START and the Spurs are 3-5 you stupid MIDGET.

Thank you.:toast I wondered if sequ realized you have to add 1 to the win column it the team scores more than their opponent.

[Manufan909]

Hill seems like he could become half Parker, half Monta Ellis and half Antonio Daniels.

:drunk

Fuck yeah man. He has some of TP's penetrating ability, albeit he goes for it differently, he actually has strength and hops as well. And he's quickly becoming the best defender the Spurs have. If he can do all this, Ian should AT LEAST be able to get easy buckets and rebounds, even if he isn't the savior.

[anakha]

Fuck yeah man. He has some of TP's penetrating ability, albeit he goes for it differently, he actually has strength and hops as well. And he's quickly becoming the best defender the Spurs have. If he can do all this, Ian should AT LEAST be able to get easy buckets and rebounds, even if he isn't the savior.

Over/under on number of hours until a photoshopped 'George Hill is the Savior' pic gets posted? :lol

[Manufan909]

48 hrs or less.

[Biernutz]

Saw Hill at the game to-night and he was fearless going to the rim. He doesn't play like a rookie. Can you see us going small with Tony,Manu,Roger,George and Tim? :toast

[Tully365]

back the fuck up. its one fucking game.

Your knowledge of basketball is even shakier and shadier than your knowledge of politics.

[jayc23]

Your knowledge of basketball is even shakier and shadier than your knowledge of politics.

:lol

[SequSpur]

Your knowledge of basketball is even shakier and shadier than your knowledge of politics.

does this have anything to do with the summer league?

[Buddy Holly]

does this have anything to do with the summer league?

As much as it has to do with midget tossing. :toast

[Obstructed_View]

Thank you.:toast I wondered if sequ realized you have to add 1 to the win column it the team scores more than their opponent.

:lol

Yeah, I'm glad the Spurs offense was so dominant tonight so they could outscore their opponent.

[SequSpur]

Thank you.:toast I wondered if sequ realized you have to add 1 to the win column it the team scores more than their opponent.

i see some of you dumbfucks are finally figuring the game out.

[Tully365]

does this have anything to do with the summer league?

Nope... but jayc23 and I and a few others were Hill supporters early on, while guys like you were making threads that said he was a wasted pick, no good, etc.... why not make good on that now and admit you were wrong?

[SequSpur]

Nope... but jayc23 and I and a few others were Hill supporters early on, while guys like you were making threads that said he was a wasted pick, no good, etc.... why not make good on that now and admit you were wrong?

Hill played well today.

is that okay?

smb

[Tully365]

Hill played well today.

is that okay?

smb

That's nice. Too much humble pie in the mouth at once could cause a gag reaction and lead to a dangerous choking situation.

[Obstructed_View]

Nope... but jayc23 and I and a few others were Hill supporters early on, while guys like you were making threads that said he was a wasted pick, no good, etc.... why not make good on that now and admit you were wrong?

Except that all of you were guilty of picking a position before there was nearly enough information to make a real judgment. In all truth, it's still too early. All you did was called the coin flip correctly. Granted, taking the opposite opinion from Sequ is a pretty safe bet, but still...

[SequSpur]

That's nice. Too much humble pie in the mouth at once could cause a gag reaction and lead to a dangerous choking situation.

yeah, that's why you bounce them on your chin meatloaf.

[byrdman31]

he was great tonight.. every aspect of his game was on tonight.. i especially like him diving and getting on the floor for a loose ball.. great hustle plays

[Tully365]

Except that all of you were guilty of picking a position before there was nearly enough information to make a real judgment. In all truth, it's still too early. All you did was called the coin flip correctly. Granted, taking the opposite opinion from Sequ is a pretty safe bet, but still...

Not true-- I never said he'd be ROY or anything like that, but I did argue that his defense, rebounding, assists, blocks, and low turnovers signified to me that he had real talent and that people saying he sucked just because he had some bad shooting games was not a good way to evaluate hoops talent.

[Manu-of-steel]

great job, george, both on offense and defense. looked like manu jumped out of his seat after hill was able to make a basket with no less than yao trying to block him-that was a nice shot. on defense, he was good too. in the dying seconds, landry tried to post him, and he was able to disrupt the play. wow, what a win. awesome!

[angelbelow]

Hill tonight: 35+ minutes, 17 pts, 6 rebounds, 5 assists, ZERO turnovers. Anyone still doubting him as a late first round draft pick is crazy. If Manu starts alongside Parker, Hill and Mason have the potential to be one of the best backcourt 2nd teams in the league.

i still doubt him, i was expecting 50 points 28 assists 16 rebounds 12 steals 5 blocks and 5 turnovers.

[sexinthatsx]

George Hill Ftw!!!!!!! Wooo

[samikeyp]

Hill has four turnovers in 135 minutes this season. That was a quarter for Beno against Lindsey Hunter.

Hell that was less than a quarter against Lindsey Hunter.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Alright IUPUI!

[ShoogarBear]

Hill has four turnovers in 135 minutes this season. That was a quarter for Beno against Lindsey Hunter.

Hill isn't turning the ball over, true. But he's still not really a playmaker yet, and nobody's tried pressing him.

I'm impressed by his progress, but still holding out before saying he's going to make it as a point guard.

[Obstructed_View]

Not true-- I never said he'd be ROY or anything like that, but I did argue that his defense, rebounding, assists, blocks, and low turnovers signified to me that he had real talent and that people saying he sucked just because he had some bad shooting games was not a good way to evaluate hoops talent.

Welcome to Sequ's world. :lol


After careful consideration, I think this is an excellent pick. The Spurs clearly had no back up point and they haven't had one since Speedy left. They addressed something they have needed for years. This dude can play. Period.


0 for 10 in a got damn summer league game? This guy should be tearing shit up and he hasn't done jack.

Give me a freaking BREAK ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mVp]

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp159/mvpspurs/hill-1.gif

:downspin:

[SpurSupremacist]

Umm, they scored what... 77 points? Obviously he isn't getting people that great of looks if they're only scoring 77 points. What did they score the other night, 75? Make no mistake about it, Beno is way better than Hill. Hill is better defensively and that's it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

SequSpur = Spurtalk's greatest troll

[Dr. Gonzo]

He's the Tony Parker of trolling.

[anakha]

Umm, they scored what... 77 points? Obviously he isn't getting people that great of looks if they're only scoring 77 points. What did they score the other night, 75? Make no mistake about it, Beno is way better than Hill. Hill is better defensively and that's it.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[timvp]

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp159/mvpspurs/hill-1.gif

:downspin:I thought that was his most impressive move of the night. Once he's no longer a rookie, that'll probably become an And-1.

[Obstructed_View]

Umm, they scored what... 77 points? Obviously he isn't getting people that great of looks if they're only scoring 77 points. What did they score the other night, 75? Make no mistake about it, Beno is way better than Hill. Hill is better defensively and that's it.

Hill's been here all of four games and he has the same number of heroic performances against Houston as Beno did as a Spur.

[anakha]

Hill's been here all of four games and he has the same number of heroic performances against Houston as Beno did as a Spur.

Let him be.

He's still convinced it's all the coaching staff and FO's fault Beno discovered breakfast tacos.

[Obstructed_View]

I thought that was his most impressive move of the night. Once he's no longer a rookie, that'll probably become an And-1.

So I'm not the only one thinking that he's getting zero love from the zebras. Maybe he needs to introduce himself...

[mVp]

Yeah, I think that should have been an and-1 too.

[Manufan909]

Hill is too awesome for and1s.:king

[Borosai]

I wishing I sawed this game.

[SpurSupremacist]

Hill's been here all of four games and he has the same number of heroic performances against Houston as Beno did as a Spur.

Hey, maybe if Beno played more than 5 minutes per game, LET ALONE got a start, he could have actually done something when he was with the Spurs.

[Buddy Holly]

Dude, stfu about Beno. He's leading a shitty Kings team to a non-playoff season.

Beno can't hack it (pressure) which is why he's exciling under a "whatever" regime of the Kings.

No team would want him on a title contender at starting point guard.

[SpurSupremacist]

Dude, stfu about Beno. He's leading a shitty Kings team to a non-playoff season.

Beno can't hack it (pressure) which is why he's exciling under a "whatever" regime of the Kings.

No team would want him on a title contender at starting point guard.

Not sure what "exciling" is, but I can think of a few starting point guards he's better than on title contenders.

1) Rondo
2) Fisher
3) George Hill

[Obstructed_View]

Hey, maybe if Beno played more than 5 minutes per game, LET ALONE got a start, he could have actually done something when he was with the Spurs.

You wanted Beno to start instead of Parker? That's pretty much all I need to know. Thanks.

[SpurSupremacist]

You wanted Beno to start instead of Parker? That's pretty much all I need to know. Thanks.

If you are that naive, then that's pretty sad. I was clearly pointing out that Hill is getting an opportunity to play big minutes, when Beno never got a chance to do the same. Everyone is now seeing what Beno can do when he gets sufficient playing time.

[jayc23]

Hey, maybe if Beno played more than 5 minutes per game, LET ALONE got a start, he could have actually done something when he was with the Spurs.

idiot

[jayc23]

If you are that naive, then that's pretty sad. I was clearly pointing out that Hill is getting an opportunity to play big minutes, when Beno never got a chance to do the same. Everyone is now seeing what Beno can do when he gets sufficient playing time.

Hill would easily score 30 on the sad ass clippers.... houston couldn't stop him ONCE when he slashed

[SpurSupremacist]

Hill would easily score 30 on the sad ass clippers.... houston couldn't stop him ONCE when he slashed

Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Reality is, Beno scored 30 and Hill scored 17. There's a big difference.

[Manu-of-steel]

I thought that was his most impressive move of the night. Once he's no longer a rookie, that'll probably become an And-1.

on the next play, he again scored on the reverse lay up against yao.

[Manu-of-steel]

Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Reality is, Beno scored 30 and Hill scored 17. There's a big difference.

woulda coulda shoulda.. beno was given enough time for him to show what he's got, but he gave us nothing. i would take hill against beno on any given night.

[duncan228]

Updated from earlier, this version includes Hill.

Late surge propels Spurs past Rockets (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Late_surge_propels_Spurs_past_Rockets.html)
By Mike Monroe

Spurs rookie George Hill just enjoyed the game of his fledgling NBA life.

He had 17 points, six rebounds and five assists in a 77-75 comeback victory over the Houston Rockets, who came into the AT&T Center on Friday night with the best record in the Southwest Division.

Then Hill, suddenly a starter by default, got to his locker after a long shower and discovered his first NBA paycheck.

Peeking inside the envelope, he let out a low whistle.

“We get one of these every two weeks, Roger?” he asked teammate Roger Mason Jr.

“Yes, George,” Mason said, “and you earned that check tonight.”

Payday rarely has felt better for the Spurs (3-5), who finished the game with 12 unanswered points. The Rockets (5-4) didn’t score in the final 4:43.

Without a basket through the first 4:40 of the fourth quarter, they had trailed the Rockets by 14 with 7:37 remaining. But defensive effort reminiscent of their championship runs kept them from falling farther behind. Then, timely 3-point shooting got them to a crunch time situation in which they out-executed the Rockets at both ends of the floor.

Tim Duncan’s driving hook shot with 59.7 seconds remaining gave the Spurs their first lead of the second half, 76-75, and they followed with three defensive stops to ice the game.

Houston’s Ron Artest launched a 3-point attempt just before the final buzzer, and when it skidded off the back rim, the Spurs raced off the court in celebration mode endorsed by their head coach.

“I was really impressed with the 48-minute effort the guys made,” Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said, “especially being down 14 and not really caring who’s playing the game, and trying to give their best. So they deserve to enjoy themselves tonight.”

The Spurs came into the game averaging only 94.3 points per game, and Popovich had no idea where he might find additional offense.

Hill was the unlikely source of enough offense to augment Duncan’s steady production.

Learning on the fly, the rookie on three occasions took the ball straight at 7-foot-6 Rockets center Yao Ming, scoring over a defensive presence he said he dared not fear.

“You can’t be scared of nobody,” Hill said. “He’s a great player, but you have to play. That’s the only way I can make something happen, because he’s going to be there all night.”

Popovich noticed.

“What’s impressive about George is he’s starting to figure out how to be aggressive on a consistent basis and he’s learning a new position,” Popovich said. “For a rookie to be doing that under these circumstances is pretty impressive. He’s got a great demeanor about him and a fine mental toughness.”

The Spurs got another offensive jolt from unexpected territory. Forward Matt Bonner, who had not played a minute in the previous two games, got an early call from Popovich on Friday. He responded with 11 points in 19 minutes, 37 seconds, making three of four 3-point shots.

Mason’s defensive work on Houston’s Tracy McGrady in the final four minutes limited the Rockets’ top scorer to two shots, both of them well contested.

“No one person is going to stop a guy like T-Mac.” Mason said. “We all dug in, had great help-side defense and as a team we defended him.”

It was Duncan who had the biggest defensive play of the game, though. With 1.9 seconds remaining, his block of Aaron Brooks’ short runner on the left baseline preserved the Spurs’ lead. Mason tracked down the loose ball before it went out of bounds, forcing Brooks to foul him.

“This win is huge,” Mason said. “We felt like we gave one away in Milwaukee. Today we dug in. We missed some shots, but this team is not all about offense. It’s about our defense, getting stops and big blocked shots like Tim did, and getting loose balls and rebounds.

“Today, we scrapped for this win.”

And earned their paychecks.

[SpurSupremacist]

woulda coulda shoulda.. beno was given enough time for him to show what he's got, but he gave us nothing. i would take hill against beno on any given night.

And you will take a whole lot of bricks. By the time you are finished, you may be able to build a house. Actually, more like a mansion.

[Blackjack]

It's amazing the improvement he's made since summer league. In summer league, he was one of the worst finishers I've ever seen.

In this game against the Rockets, you had to do a double take to make sure it wasn't TP.

I don't think it's as much of an improvement, as much as I believe it's about finally seeing the real Hill.

All the indecision and lack of familiarity (the things I felt really hampered him during the summer) seem to be subsiding, thus we're starting to see the player the Spurs were so confident could contribute right away.

I really wanted a backup point/combo-guard in the draft, so I had my eye on Chalmers. I saw Chalmers as a bit of a young L.Hunter, and a guy that could contribute right away. I still feel that he would've been a good pick, and a solid contributor for years to come, but I also feel that he has nowhere near the upside of Hill.

Like most on the day of the draft, I was unfamiliar with Hill. After the Spurs picked him though, I went back and watched and read everything I could find on the kid.

Everything I found out about him lead me to believe that the Spurs found another gem, and that his summer showing was little more than an aberration.

Like Elliott said, he's like a little mini "Plastic-Man." He's got characteristics of Rondo, Harris, Ellis, (to name a few) and a toughness/demeanor that should serve him well.

Tonight Hill gave the Spur fans a glimpse of the havoc he should be able to create on both ends of the floor for years to come. Come to think of it...

George "Havoc" Hill, has a nice ring to it. :smokin

[lefty]

Beno who?
Mario who?
Jannero who?

:toast

[Avitus1]

I believe in George Hill

[Obstructed_View]

If you are that naive, then that's pretty sad. I was clearly pointing out that Hill is getting an opportunity to play big minutes, when Beno never got a chance to do the same. Everyone is now seeing what Beno can do when he gets sufficient playing time.

Beno never got a chance to do the same because he couldn't win minutes away from the corpses that were brought in behind him even when Parker was out. None of his stats have changed since he left, it's just that his minutes have increased, and his team is 4-6 despite a frightfully easy schedule so far. Everybody knows he can put up numbers. He's not reliable, he's not a good teammate and he's not a winner. George Hill's made more progress in that area in three weeks than Beno did in three years.

The fact that you're trying to compare Beno to a guy who has played in five games in his life, all of them with a splint on his hand should tell you something about the validity of your position.

[SpurSupremacist]

Beno never got a chance to do the same because he couldn't win minutes away from the corpses that were brought in behind him even when Parker was out. None of his stats have changed since he left, it's just that his minutes have increased, and his team is 4-6 despite a frightfully easy schedule so far. Everybody knows he can put up numbers. He's not reliable, he's not a good teammate and he's not a winner. George Hill's made more progress in that area in three weeks than Beno did in three years.

The fact that you're trying to compare Beno to a guy who has played in five games in his life, all of them with a splint on his hand should tell you something about the validity of your position.

No, Beno never got a chance to do the same because Popobitch is unrealistic with his demands of players and his favoritism. And I'm not sure why you're pointing out that none of his stats have changed, only his minutes have increased, because that only beefs up my argument even more. 4-6, huh? By my count, that is more wins than the Spurs have. rofl

[Anti.Hero]

George Battle At ____ Hill.

[lefty]

The Hills - season 1

[Obstructed_View]

No, Beno never got a chance to do the same because Popobitch is unrealistic with his demands of players and his favoritism.
Yes, Pop was unrealistic in thinking that Beno was going to play through aches and pains, give effort on the defensive end of the floor, play defense, be aware of game situations, stay in shape, and ultimately, not bad mouth the team to the press. Pop has a funny way of only giving guys that violate those rules a couple of years before he finally tires of it.


And I'm not sure why you're pointing out that none of his stats have changed, only his minutes have increased, because that only beefs up my argument even more.
Your argument was never that he was talented, or that he could put up numbers, your argument is that he never got a chance to show what he could do. I submit that he showed exactly what he could do on the court, and it was what he couldn't do that I spelled out above, that ultimately put him out of the organization.


4-6, huh? By my count, that is more wins than the Spurs have. rofl
Let's see, George has 3 wins in 5 games, and Beno has 4 wins in 10 games. You might want to polish up on your counting. rawful

Not sure why you're complaining about the Spurs scoring 77 and winning on a night when the Kings scored 86 and then lost in overtime, anyway. The fact that the team that Beno lost to featured a point guard starting his first NBA game should tell you the validity of your argument.

[Ice009]

And you will take a whole lot of bricks. By the time you are finished, you may be able to build a house. Actually, more like a mansion.

Beno is a fucking piece of shit. I don't care if Beno is scoring 20 ppg on a shitty team.

He had chances here and he completely blew them. He was lazy, played poor defense and turned the ball over when pressured. It also seems like Pop thought he didn't have much mental or physical toughness.

Beno might actually be handy right about now in Jacque Vaughn's spot, but other than that I definitely wouldn't want him on the court in the playoffs when the pressure is turned up a notch.

[SenorSpur]

Alright IUPUI!

The Houston broadcast team made a bit of fun out of IUPUI tonight. They kept pronouncing it ooooiepooie. With the way Hill was playing tonight, they had lots of pronunciation practice.

[Obstructed_View]

The Houston broadcast team made a bit of fun out of IUPUI tonight. They kept pronouncing it ooooiepooie. With the way Hill was playing tonight, they had lots of pronunciation practice.

I think that's how some people from the school pronounce it. Every opposition broadcast I've heard so far this year consists of several minutes of ooiepooie schtick, so expect to get sick of it. :)

[SenorSpur]

I don't think it's as much of an improvement, as much as I believe it's about finally seeing the real Hill.

All the indecision and lack of familiarity (the things I felt really hampered him during the summer) seem to be subsiding, thus we're starting to see the player the Spurs were so confident could contribute right away.

I really wanted a backup point/combo-guard in the draft, so I had my eye on Chalmers. I saw Chalmers as a bit of a young L.Hunter, and a guy that could contribute right away. I still feel that he would've been a good pick, and a solid contributor for years to come, but I also feel that he has nowhere near the upside of Hill.

Like most on the day of the draft, I was unfamiliar with Hill. After the Spurs picked him though, I went back and watched and read everything I could find on the kid.

Everything I found out about him lead me to believe that the Spurs found another gem, and that his summer showing was little more than an aberration.

Like Elliott said, he's like a little mini "Plastic-Man." He's got characteristics of Rondo, Harris, Ellis, (to name a few) and a toughness/demeanor that should serve him well.
Tonight Hill gave the Spur fans a glimpse of the havoc he should be able to create on both ends of the floor for years to come. Come to think of it...

George "Havoc" Hill, has a nice ring to it. :smokin

I'm especially loving his body control. The way he can contort himself and still finish. I don't remember seeing that skill during summer league. Dude is fearless in that he took it right at Yao. Not once, did he get his shot blocked either. Might have surprised the big fella a bit.

[Obstructed_View]

Yao may have thought he was Hairston and been afraid of him...

[SpursFanFirst]

No, Beno never got a chance to do the same because Popobitch is unrealistic with his demands of players and his favoritism. And I'm not sure why you're pointing out that none of his stats have changed, only his minutes have increased, because that only beefs up my argument even more. 4-6, huh? By my count, that is more wins than the Spurs have. rofl

:rolleyes Perhaps you should be in the Kings forum.
Beno is gone...get over it!

[SpurSupremacist]

Yes, Pop was unrealistic in thinking that Beno was going to play through aches and pains, give effort on the defensive end of the floor, play defense, be aware of game situations, stay in shape, and ultimately, not bad mouth the team to the press. Pop has a funny way of only giving guys that violate those rules a couple of years before he finally tires of it.

What Popobitch fails to realize, some players just aren't great defenders. It isn't like you can just give effort and you'll suddenly become a great defender. And if I was Beno, not only would I have bad-mouthed Popobitch while I was here for not playing me, but right now I would be shooting shittalk back to Popobitch being a starting point guard on a team with more wins than his club.


Your argument was never that he was talented, or that he could put up numbers, your argument is that he never got a chance to show what he could do. I submit that he showed exactly what he could do on the court, and it was what he couldn't do that I spelled out above, that ultimately put him out of the organization.

And that increased playing time stat you just threw out there did just that. It showed that if given the opportunity, he will produce.



Let's see, George has 3 wins in 5 games, and Beno has 4 wins in 10 games. You might want to polish up on your counting. rawful

Except comparing player to player wasn't my argument, it was team related. And if you want to go deeper into it, individually, George Hill currently has an efficiency rating of 6, which is down right terrible. Beno's is almost twice as high. Try again.


Not sure why you're complaining about the Spurs scoring 77 and winning on a night when the Kings scored 86 and then lost in overtime, anyway. The fact that the team that Beno lost to featured a point guard starting his first NBA game should tell you the validity of your argument.

I'm not complaining, simply showing evidence that Hill did not have the great game everyone here seems to think he had. If you're the starting point guard, and your team only scores 77 points, sorry... you didn't have a great game. Not to mention his numbers weren't all that impressive to begin with.

[SpursFanFirst]

I think that's how some people from the school pronounce it. Every opposition broadcast I've heard so far this year consists of several minutes of ooiepooie schtick, so expect to get sick of it. :)

Yeah, that isn't new.

[SpurSupremacist]

:rolleyes Perhaps you should be in the Kings forum.
Beno is gone...get over it!

No. I'm sick of this type of attitude. Fans should not just turn their head the other way when their front office and coaching staff repeatedly fuck up. That's why New York has the best fans in the world. They actually know what is going on and are always knowledgeable and critical when it's appropriate... and more importantly, they let everyone know about the shortcomings of their franchises, and let the franchise know it isn't acceptable.

[SenorSpur]

Yao may have thought he was Hairston and been afraid of him...

OK. Bring me up to speed. What did my man Hairston do to Yao in the preseason?

[SpursFanFirst]

No. I'm sick of this type of attitude. Fans should not just turn their head the other way when their front office and coaching staff repeatedly fuck up.

You're right. This is all on the front office. I'm sure Beno's word ethic, of lack thereof, had nothing to do with it.

[SpurSupremacist]

You're right. This is all on the front office. I'm sure Beno's word ethic, of lack thereof, had nothing to do with it.

His work ethic has sure hampered him in Sacramento! Let me tell you!

[SpursFanFirst]

His work ethic has sure hampered him in Sacramento! Let me tell you!

Beno didn't belong on this team.
If you're such a big fan, why can't you just be happy that he's found a place where he DOES belong?
Why focus on the past?

[Blackjack]

I'm especially loving his body control. The way he can contort himself and still finish. I don't remember seeing that skill during summer league. Dude is fearless in that he took it right at Yao. Not once, did he get his shot blocked either. Might have surprised the big fella a bit.

The kid is definitely fearless and a tough sonbitch to boot.

Summer league to me was nothing more than "paralysis by analysis."

When he gets the Spurs' system down, and it becomes second nature to him, a lot of doubters are going to be pleasantly suprised.

Here's to "Havoc" Hill.:toast

[Manufan909]

OK. Bring me up to speed. What did my man Hairston do to Yao in the preseason?

Performed a nut dunk on Yao, but from a flatfooted position. He probably has a poster of it in his room. Now Hill will need 3(or at least 2, how many times did he finish against Yao?).

[SpurSupremacist]

Beno didn't belong on this team.
If you're such a big fan, why can't you just be happy that he's found a place where he DOES belong?
Why focus on the past?

Because this front office is shit and I'm sick of it. Do you know what they got in return for Beno? A second round draft pick. LOL A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK!!!! </Tommy Heinsohn>

[Blackjack]

OK. Bring me up to speed. What did my man Hairston do to Yao in the preseason?

He put a two handed dunk (basically from a stand still) right into Yao's grill!:lol

[SpursFanFirst]

Because this front office is shit and I'm sick of it.

:bang I'm done.

[jayc23]

:bang I'm done.

ya.. im in disbelief of this fool.. just wow... beno's sack is so far down his throat.. I hope george gets the chance to thrash that scrub

[angelbelow]

Because this front office is shit and I'm sick of it. Do you know what they got in return for Beno? A second round draft pick. LOL A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK!!!! </Tommy Heinsohn>

im convinced your not a spurs fan.

[SpurSupremacist]

ya.. im in disbelief of this fool.. just wow... beno's sack is so far down his throat.. I hope george gets the chance to thrash that scrub

George Hill, Efficiency Rating 6.60. Sorry, but he hasn't been able to 'thrash' Sebastian Telfair, let alone Beno Udrih.

[Manufan909]

ya.. im in disbelief of this fool.. just wow... beno's sack is so far down his throat.. I hope george gets the chance to thrash that scrub

He will tomo at 8/7 central.:toast

And if Beno schools him, then he can brag about beating an NBA player in his 6th game.:lmao

[SpurSupremacist]

im convinced your not a spurs fan.

I didn't sleep for 2 days after the Spurs lost to the Mavericks in game 7.

[Ice009]

What Popobitch fails to realize, some players just aren't great defenders. It isn't like you can just give effort and you'll suddenly become a great defender. And if I was Beno, not only would I have bad-mouthed Popobitch while I was here for not playing me, but right now I would be shooting shittalk back to Popobitch being a starting point guard on a team with more wins than his club.


And that increased playing time stat you just threw out there did just that. It showed that if given the opportunity, he will produce.



Except comparing player to player wasn't my argument, it was team related. And if you want to go deeper into it, individually, George Hill currently has an efficiency rating of 6, which is down right terrible. Beno's is almost twice as high. Try again.


I'm not complaining, simply showing evidence that Hill did not have the great game everyone here seems to think he had. If you're the starting point guard, and your team only scores 77 points, sorry... you didn't have a great game. Not to mention his numbers weren't all that impressive to begin with.

Are you sure your name isn't WhiteSupremacist? The two players you seem to be sticking up for today are both white. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not?

[SpurSupremacist]

He will tomo at 8/7 central.:toast

And if Beno schools him, then he can brag about beating an NBA player in his 6th game.:lmao

I won't brag about anything, because one game doesn't mean much, and players can have bad games.

[SpurSupremacist]

Are you sure your name isn't WhiteSupremist? The two players you seem to be sticking up for today are both white. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not?

Tim Duncan is my favorite player.

[angelbelow]

I didn't sleep for 2 days after the Spurs lost to the Mavericks in game 7.

then you also enjoyed our 4 championships, yes? the league does not revolve around us, there are 29 other front offices competing for that same championship. its impossible for us to be the only team improving every year, you have to take the good with bad.

[SpurSupremacist]

then you also enjoyed our 4 championships, yes? the league does not revolve around us, there are 29 other front offices competing for that same championship. its impossible for us to be the only team improving every year, you have to take the good with bad.

I enjoyed them. Do I think there should have been more, without being a homer whatsoever? Absolutely.

I agree you have to take the good with the bad. However, there has only been bad and no good. Sorry, signing Roger Mason as the only 'major' addition the past 3 years doesn't cut it. No way in hell.

[Obstructed_View]

What Popobitch fails to realize, some players just aren't great defenders. It isn't like you can just give effort and you'll suddenly become a great defender.
Well they certainly waited long enough to determine that Beno wasn't going to give any effort.


And if I was Beno, not only would I have bad-mouthed Popobitch while I was here for not playing me, but right now I would be shooting shittalk back to Popobitch being a starting point guard on a team with more wins than his club.
Yes, being 4-6 is something I'm sure Beno's proud of.


And that increased playing time stat you just threw out there did just that. It showed that if given the opportunity, he will produce.
I'm not sure if you just don't bother to read my posts or what, but let me say it again: Nobody ever questioned whether or not he could put up numbers; his stats per 48 haven't changed from SA to Sacramento as far as I know. If given the opportunity, he'll produce everything but a winning record. If he just can't play defense, as you stated above, then why would the Spurs want him anyway?


Except comparing player to player wasn't my argument, it was team related. And if you want to go deeper into it, individually, George Hill currently has an efficiency rating of 6, which is down right terrible. Beno's is almost twice as high. Try again.
So you start off the above post saying your argument was team related and then you go into individual stats. George has a higher winning percentage as a starter. Beno has a losing record as a starter in Sacramento. Next.


I'm not complaining, simply showing evidence that Hill did not have the great game everyone here seems to think he had. If you're the starting point guard, and your team only scores 77 points, sorry... you didn't have a great game. Not to mention his numbers weren't all that impressive to begin with.
Hill shot 62 percent on the night and had 17 points, 5 assists, 6 rebounds, 0 turnovers in 36 minutes and won in regulation. Beno shot 44 percent and had 18 points, 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 turnovers in 41 minutes and his team lost in overtime. Hill was starting the fifth game of his career against the Rockets on the second night of a back to back. Beno was starting his 66th game against the Suns without Steve Nash on two days rest. Obviously your definition of "impressive" needs some work.

[Obstructed_View]

He will tomo at 8/7 central.:toast

And if Beno schools him, then he can brag about beating an NBA player in his 6th game.:lmao

Since Beno just got done losing to a point guard starting his first NBA game, that should make him feel good.

[angelbelow]

I enjoyed them. Do I think there should have been more, without being a homer whatsoever? Absolutely.

I agree you have to take the good with the bad. However, there has only been bad and no good. Sorry, signing Roger Mason as the only 'major' addition the past 3 years doesn't cut it. No way in hell.

i like that you want everything to be perfect, be try to be more realistic, you'll be less stressed.

also i want to say this, you make it sound like the spurs didnt go out and try and improve this team. the spurs tried and they tried hard. but like i said, there are 29 other frontoffices trying to improve their teams too.

[SpurSupremacist]

Well they certainly waited long enough to determine that Beno wasn't going to give any effort.

Waited long enough? How is that, when he wasn't getting any consistent playing time? lol Makes no sense.



Yes, being 4-6 is something I'm sure Beno's proud of.

I would be, with that team.



I'm not sure if you just don't bother to read my posts or what, but let me say it again: Nobody ever questioned whether or not he could put up numbers; his stats per 48 haven't changed from SA to Sacramento as far as I know. If given the opportunity, he'll produce everything but a winning record. If he just can't play defense, as you stated above, then why would the Spurs want him anyway?

Why would they want Barry then? Or Finley? Neither of them could play defense, yet they both got more playing time than Beno. And to answer your question more directly, for Beno's offensive skills. Clearly this team cannot score for shit.



So you start off the above post saying your argument was team related and then you go into individual stats. George has a higher winning percentage as a starter. Beno has a losing record as a starter in Sacramento. Next.

That's like saying "Rondo had a better record than Tony Parker last season, so he is better.". Again, it just doesn't make sense... at all. lol



Hill shot 62 percent on the night and had 17 points, 5 assists, 6 rebounds, 0 turnovers in 36 minutes and won in regulation.

That's fine. The fact of the matter is, his team scored 77 points with him as the starting point guard.


Beno shot 44 percent and had 18 points, 4 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 turnovers in 41 minutes and his team lost in overtime.

I'm not sure why you're highlighting overtime and regulation, like it adds a ton of minutes to the equation. lol


Hill was starting the fifth game of his career against the Rockets on the second night of a back to back.

Again, not really sure why you would add "second night of a back to back" when it's about 8 games into the season and he is about 20-years-old.


Beno was starting his 66th game against the Suns without Steve Nash on two days rest. Obviously your definition of "impressive" needs some work.

The Rockets were also without their starting point guard.

[Dex]

I enjoyed them. Do I think there should have been more, without being a homer whatsoever? Absolutely.

I agree you have to take the good with the bad. However, there has only been bad and no good. Sorry, signing Roger Mason as the only 'major' addition the past 3 years doesn't cut it. No way in hell.

Yeah, 4 titles in 10 years really blows.

I mean, shit. Why can't we be the Chicago Bulls or the Boston Celtics? Why is our Front Office so incredibly incompetent that they can't completely dominate a league of 29 other organizations spending millions of dollars to do the same thing?

Why? Because .4, the Dirk Foul, and Manu's Ankle happened. And those are all things the front office couldn't control.

But yeah, it really sucks to be a Spurs fan, and I'm sure you could run things better.

Fucking ingrates.

[SpurSupremacist]

i like that you want everything to be perfect, be try to be more realistic, you'll be less stressed.

also i want to say this, you make it sound like the spurs didnt go out and try and improve this team. the spurs tried and they tried hard. but like i said, there are 29 other frontoffices trying to improve their teams too.

OK, but how do you know that they tried hard? Have you been there for the negotiations? Of course, you could use the very same argument and flip it back at me. The difference is, I have results to back my suspicions. That's what it boils down to. If you don't get things done, obviously you weren't trying hard enough.

Are you telling me the Spurs couldn't have packaged together a better deal for Artest than what the Rockets gave up? And by the way, this is just one example, I could list off many other front office fuck-ups.

[SpurSupremacist]

Yeah, 4 titles in 10 years really blows.

When you should have more, yes, it does.


Why? Because .4, the Dirk Foul, and Manu's Ankle happened. And those are all things the front office couldn't control.

You can control getting outcoached by a rookie head coach. You can control inserting Michael Finley into the power forward spot for the FIRST TIME THE ENTIRE YEAR.


But yeah, it really sucks to be a Spurs fan, and I'm sure you could run things better.

Oh, I have no question I could run things better. Absolutely no doubt in my mind, whatsoever.

[Dex]

Oh, I have no question I could run things better. Absolutely no doubt in my mind, whatsoever.

:rolleyes Sounds like you better fill out an app there, fella.

They'll call if a position is available.

[ss1986v2]

If you don't get things done, obviously you weren't trying hard enough.

that would be a logical fallacy. if thats what you are basing things on, no need for any of this to continue.


Oh, I have no question I could run things better. Absolutely no doubt in my mind, whatsoever.
and now theres REALLY no reason for this to continue...

[Dex]

You can control getting outcoached by a rookie head coach. You can control inserting Michael Finley into the power forward spot for the FIRST TIME THE ENTIRE YEAR.


Oh, and Pop played the Small Ball card well before the 2006 WCF, so you only halfway addressed one of my three arguments. But once again, I'm pretty sure Pop didn't tell Manu to foul Dirk.

And I'm really sure Avery didn't tell Dirk to get fouled, either.

[angelbelow]

OK, but how do you know that they tried hard? Have you been there for the negotiations? Of course, you could use the very same argument and flip it back at me. The difference is, I have results to back my suspicions. That's what it boils down to. If you don't get things done, obviously you weren't trying hard enough.

Are you telling me the Spurs couldn't have packaged together a better deal for Artest than what the Rockets gave up? And by the way, this is just one example, I could list off many other front office fuck-ups.

i am curious, what are your other examples?

is one of them corey maggette? is the other one tiago splitter?

artest-i think we had a shot at him during the season but he traded for kurt thomas instead. i honeslty believe that kurt would have been a better fit at that moment. with the benefit of hindsight, artest would probably have been better. but theres no way to know that, we took a calculated risk.

the kings got a potential lottery pick in green and an expiring contract. not sure how weere supposed to offer something better. what did you have in mind?

[angelbelow]

Oh, I have no question I could run things better. Absolutely no doubt in my mind, whatsoever.

what is your current occupation?

[SpurSupremacist]

Oh, and Pop played the Small Ball card well before the 2006 WCF, so you only halfway addressed one of my arguments. But once again, I'm pretty sure Pop didn't tell Manu to foul Dirk.

And I'm really sure Avery didn't tell Dirk to get fouled, either.

No. Actually, he didn't. He had NEVER played Michael Finley at power forward up until the Mavs series.

I think you're missing the point. Yes, the Manu foul was one of the most bone-headed plays in sports history. The point is, it should have never came down to that. He let a rookie head coach dictate how he was going to play. When you are the superior team, you make them match up with YOU. By the way, has Popobitch ever heard of a zone? I'm pretty certain he doesn't understand the concept of taking a team out of an offensive rhythm. He only knows how to ugly up the game and play a slow-pace and act like it's great defense that's being played, when in reality he's just relied on great players to make him look like he knows what he's doing.

[SpurSupremacist]

i am curious, what are your other examples?

is one of them corey maggette? is the other one tiago splitter?

artest-i think we had a shot at him during the season but he traded for kurt thomas instead. i honeslty believe that kurt would have been a better fit at that moment. with the benefit of hindsight, artest would probably have been better. but theres no way to know that, we took a calculated risk.

the kings got a potential lottery pick in green and an expiring contract. not sure how weere supposed to offer something better. what did you have in mind?

Let's see. I'll list a few of them off the top of my head.

1) Stephen Jackson
2) Luis Scola
3) Beno Udrih
4) Tiago Splitter
5) Ron Artest
6) Kurt Thomas for a first round draft pick
7) Damon Stoudamire
8) Nick Van Exel
9) Brent Barry (letting him walk)
10) Robert Horry (letting him stay... entirely too long)

[SpurSupremacist]

what is your current occupation?

I don't see how it's relevant but I'm in law school.

[Obstructed_View]

Waited long enough? How is that, when he wasn't getting any consistent playing time? lol Makes no sense.
He got into games. What he couldn't do was stay in games. That's on him. It was an experiment that the team tried for years before giving up on him.


I would be, with that team.
So Beno gets excuses for his team, but having a 3-2 record on a team without Parker, Ginobili or Mahinmi isn't something to be proud of, especially for a rookie?


Why would they want Barry then? Or Finley? Neither of them could play defense, yet they both got more playing time than Beno. And to answer your question more directly, for Beno's offensive skills. Clearly this team cannot score for shit.

Barry and Finley could keep from turning the ball over, showed up in shape, played through injury, and took good shots, not to mention that they earned their way into the NBA long before they showed up in San Antonio. And if the first five games of the Spurs season didn't convince you that offense without defense means you lose then there's really no fucking help for you.


That's like saying "Rondo had a better record than Tony Parker last season, so he is better.". Again, it just doesn't make sense... at all. lol
Do you want to compare team winning percentage? Hill wins. What other way is there of comparing team contributions?


That's fine. The fact of the matter is, his team scored 77 points with him as the starting point guard.
And the team won. They've won three of his first five starts. He's contributed at both ends of the floor.


I'm not sure why you're highlighting overtime and regulation, like it adds a ton of minutes to the equation. lol
Hill's team won, and needed five fewer minutes to do it. Beno's team lost, and he needed the extra time to get a couple more points on his stat sheet. The point is more the word "win" and the word "loss". Perhaps you might focus on that, but it won't help your argument, so maybe you'd be better off continuing to avoid it.


Again, not really sure why you would add "second night of a back to back" when it's about 8 games into the season and he is about 20-years-old.
Hmm, so Hill is 20 years old when we're talking about being fresh or athletic, but the fact that he has only five games experience doesn't enter into the equation for you, huh? Nor would the age of his teammates on the second night of a back to back. Just keep focusing on that point total, because that's all that really matters in the end.


The Rockets were also without their starting point guard.
Ah, yes. Because Rafer Alston = Steve Nash. Of course you'd say that. Given your knowledge of point guards, how could you not? :lol

Clearly, whatever issues you have about Beno should be confined to discussions about Beno, because he's no longer on this team. You really should be ashamed of yourself for calling yourself a Spurs fan and rooting so hard for the failure of one of their players.

I'm bored smackin' you around. It bores me.

[kace]

G.Hill looks really good tonight. Really great if he can be at this level on a consistent basis. we'll see.

But there will always be a lot of overreaction about him considering he's playing PG like tony and that most of spurs fan on this forum don't like TP.

Let Hill makes two more games at 15 pts and 5 assists and the "trade TP" threads will come. You will never see it, fortunately, for Manu if mason makes good games. not to talk about Tim if Ian makes some good games. It is what it is.

[Manufan909]

Idk about most, nkdlunch only likes pure PG's, that's what it was.

[Obstructed_View]

G.Hill looks really good tonight. Really great if he can be at this level on a consistent basis. we'll see.

But there will always be a lot of overreaction about him considering he's playing PG like tony and that most of spurs fan on this forum don't like TP.

Let Hill makes two more games at 15 pts and 5 assists and the "trade TP" threads will come. You will never see it, fortunately, for Manu if mason makes good games. not to talk about Tim if Ian makes some good games. It is what it is.

WTF?? :lol

[SpurSupremacist]

He got into games. What he couldn't do was stay in games. That's on him. It was an experiment that the team tried for years before giving up on him.

No, it's on the head coach, actually. You can't develop if not given sufficient opportunities, which he clearly was not given. Proof is in the pudding, you can voice your opinion all you want. I will go by facts, AKA his stats once he got to Sac as the starting PG.



So Beno gets excuses for his team, but having a 3-2 record on a team without Parker, Ginobili or Mahinmi isn't something to be proud of, especially for a rookie?

First, I just have to laugh you added Mahinmi to that list, as if he has ever done ANYTHING in this league. Now that that's out of the way... George Hill has Tim Duncan, one of... if not the best player in the league (outside of LeBron, because he is in another stratosphere). Basically all he is asked to do most of the time is throw the ball to Duncan, even other teams have eluded to this. It isn't a hard job. Beno is asked to do much more, the defense keys in on him much more also.




Barry and Finley could keep from turning the ball over, showed up in shape, played through injury, and took good shots, not to mention that they earned their way into the NBA long before they showed up in San Antonio. And if the first five games of the Spurs season didn't convince you that offense without defense means you lose then there's really no fucking help for you.

Too much has been made on this board of Beno somehow being some sort of turnover machine, simply because of a couple of bad games on a big stage. Yes, he got his pocket picked by Lindsey Hunter a couple of times. Wow. He clearly can't play the point! And yes, without defense... on a team this shitty, you do lose. I agree.



Do you want to compare team winning percentage? Hill wins. What other way is there of comparing team contributions?

Stats... +/-, PER, etc.



And the team won. They've won three of his first five starts. He's contributed at both ends of the floor.

To the tune of 7 points and 2 assists per game so far this year.



Hill's team won, and needed five fewer minutes to do it. Beno's team lost, and he needed the extra time to get a couple more points on his stat sheet. The point is more the word "win" and the word "loss". Perhaps you might focus on that, but it won't help your argument, so maybe you'd be better off continuing to avoid it.

Perhaps you need to look at the standings, first of all. Second of all, go to NBA.com and compare the players, because you are obviously delusional and a homer.



Hmm, so Hill is 20 years old when we're talking about being fresh or athletic, but the fact that he has only five games experience doesn't enter into the equation for you, huh? Nor would the age of his teammates on the second night of a back to back. Just keep focusing on that point total, because that's all that really matters in the end.

Sure, he doesn't have the experience Beno has. I thought that was obvious. What I also thought was obvious, is that Hill is not on Beno's level. Maybe he will be in the future. He isn't now.



Ah, yes. Because Rafer Alston = Steve Nash. Of course you'd say that. Given your knowledge of point guards, how could you not? :lol

No, but it's still a big change to have your regular starting point guard out. And you're acting as if Nash is some sort of defensive stopper. Now THAT is laughable.


Clearly, whatever issues you have about Beno should be confined to discussions about Beno, because he's no longer on this team. You really should be ashamed of yourself for calling yourself a Spurs fan and rooting so hard for the failure of one of their players.

I'm not rooting for the failure of Hill. I've actually been satisfied with what he's done. Would I rather have Beno? Of course. Can Hill help that the front office and Popobitch are both fuck-ups? No, he can't. I hope he becomes better than Beno. The only person I really wish bad things upon is Popobitch. I hope somehow he's forced to step down, so a real coach can be brought in.


I'm bored smackin' you around. It bores me.

Hm... except... not.

[angelbelow]

Let's see. I'll list a few of them off the top of my head.

1) Stephen Jackson
2) Luis Scola
3) Beno Udrih
4) Tiago Splitter
5) Ron Artest
6) Kurt Thomas for a first round draft pick
7) Damon Stoudamire
8) Nick Van Exel
9) Brent Barry (letting him walk)
10) Robert Horry (letting him stay... entirely too long)

i laughed at nearly all of them.


I don't see how it's relevant but I'm in law school.

you claimed you could do better, i wanted to see why youre so cocky.

[SpurSupremacist]

i laughed at nearly all of them.


I laugh about it, too. But it isn't a good laugh.

[SpurSupremacist]

Goodnight.

[picnroll]

As a former Beno supporter let me say he sucks. Can the tool bring the ball up the court yet on his own? Guarantee the Kings will be searching for a quality starting PG next year. Maybe they'll be hoping to get Hill in a trade.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Because this front office is shit and I'm sick of it. Do you know what they got in return for Beno? A second round draft pick. LOL A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK!!!! </Tommy Heinsohn>

LOL it was something like top 60 protected second round pick wasn't it? We basically paid to get him out of here. Which was a good deal.Still is.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Oh and props to Hill, I'm one of those who've been seriously doubting the FO desicion to draft Hill instead of Arthur but last night Hill was damn impressive, hope he keeps it up cuz he's a really nice guy and easy to root for.

[Slomo]

So I'm guessing BG = Bulgaria? Belgrade?

Anyway welcome to the forum.

[TJastal]

Time to trade TP for a young small forward and a young center.We could win the NBA every year until Duncan and Manu retire

I was thinking the exact same thing, Andres Biedrins and Kelenna Azubuike of Golden State are two players that I think could really be a nice fit.

[Manufan909]

Just watched the NBA top ten plays, and no love for the Spurs, like usual. Kobe gets 3 fucking plays, but Hill going through/over/you-name-it-he-did-it-to Yao thrice, and nada. And the tenth play was a copy of Tolls steal and dunk, but IIRC Toll actually stole the ball from his man, all this dude had to do was be sneaky and pretend he was just running back to set up on D. Whatever, Sheed assraped the Lakers, it's all good.

[Mr. Body]

What are the chances Mr Body shows up here to eat crow?

He did very well. I never disliked him as a player -- you'll see my final desire for the draft was Courtney Lee and then George Hill in the second round. My issue was that we drafted a dedicated backup in the first round. That Parker went down doesn't make it a great pick; that's just good/bad luck. I'm glad he's doing well.

[picnroll]

He did very well. I never disliked him as a player -- you'll see my final desire for the draft was Courtney Lee and then George Hill in the second round. My issue was that we drafted a dedicated backup in the first round. That Parker went down doesn't make it a great pick; that's just good/bad luck. I'm glad he's doing well.
Hill is fully capable of being a PG/SG in a three man rotation particularly as he has a frame to get a heckuva lot stronger. Ultimately he can easily get 30 minutes in a Spurs rotation and is immeasurable versatility as a defender. Spurs made a smart choice and right now or soon fans would be cursing the FO if theey'd let Hill slip and he was picked by Boston or LA as was rumored. Right now potential wise Hill leads the pack of available players at their draft position.

[m33p0]

i hope an opportunity arises where Pop would field Hill, Tony, Manu, Mason and Tim for some small ball action.

[TDMVPDPOY]

seems like hill has more potential than parker

if hill has the floater with his jumpshot, defense....hill>tp+cp3+deron...yeh thats right he school 3 of them at once if he wanted too

[ulosturedge]

I don't understand all the bashing and flaming in this thread..lol

Based on Hills physical makeup(long arms), athleticism, and mindset the front office believed he could turn into a potentially good player. The fact that they were moving him from SG to PG should have told you the kid would need some time to adjust. Not to mention also that you can't grow your game unless you get minutes on the court.

He doesn't look rattled out there at all. So you know he doesn't lack confidence. He's starting to get a swagger out there.

I can't help but think of the Matrix when Morpheous is talking about Neo and he says "He is beginning to believe."

And we are beginning to believe in him also. Thats how I felt watching last nights game atleast.

[urunobili]

So I'm guessing BG = Bulgaria? Belgrade?

Anyway welcome to the forum.

you can't tell out of his/hers IP?

[SequSpur]

yeah, let's trade parker.... :rolleyes

you guys are dumbasses. this place is starting to go down hill.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

you can't tell out of his/hers IP?

It's Bulgaria yea. I've been a Spurs fan since 1994/5 season and I've been reading this forum a lot, but hadn't decided to post until now.

[lotr1trekkie]

Hill is a prototypical Spur. Smart, dedicated to improve, intelligent, in shape, and unselfish. He will struggle in some future games but he is a gamer. His getting pissed off when Yao obviously fouled him shows maturity beyond his 22 years. I believe he is also stong enough to play with Tony as a two guard. Twin guards who can get to the rim at will. More options for Pop. JV haters get over it. Jacque is solid. Suppose Hill gets injured? Resign Darius Washington or Salim Whatamyer? It will be interesting to see him paly against Rose and Chamlers.

[diego]

of course right now, beno is more polished than hill. but hill has already shown more character and more physical ability than beno did in 3 years. with a little polish he can easily surpass Beno as a player.

beno had tons of chances here. pop could have handled him better, but thats very easy to say in hindsight. spursupremacist insists that pop doesnt develop young players, but right at the top of his list of FO mistakes is Sjax, a guy that was dumped by teams the world over, and that Pop turned into an NBA player.

Beno is producing similar stats to what he did here, ok. But he's also getting called out by his teammates and coach for being a pussy, just like here. thats why he got traded for nothing, not for lack of ability.

remember when beno argued that the spurs favor americans? what a little bitch.

[urunobili]

we'll get to see Hill vs. Beno 2morrow... i hope timvp does a vBookie on that...

[ShoogarBear]

yeah, let's trade parker.... :rolleyes

you guys are dumbasses. this place is starting to go down hill.

No pun intended.

[Obstructed_View]

Hill is a prototypical Spur. Smart, dedicated to improve, intelligent, in shape, and unselfish.

Which also makes him the antiBeno.

[Tully365]

George Hill, Efficiency Rating 6.60. Sorry, but he hasn't been able to 'thrash' Sebastian Telfair, let alone Beno Udrih.

As of today, Beno's EFF per 48 min rating is 18.32. George Hill's is 19.87. You can't compare straight EFF ratings when one guy is averaging nearly ten minutes more per game. Add to this Hill's better defensive abilities, and the fact that the Spurs are paying him approximately one-quarter the salary that Beno makes, and Hill seems to me to clearly be the better player, and the better bargain.

[exstatic]

As of today, Beno's EFF per 48 min rating is 18.32. George Hill's is 19.87. You can't compare straight EFF ratings when one guy is averaging nearly ten minutes more per game. Add to this Hill's better defensive abilities, and the fact that the Spurs are paying him approximately one-quarter the salary that Beno makes, and Hill seems to me to clearly be the better player, and the better bargain.

PZWN3D

[exstatic]

Beno Udrih was a soft mama's boy who needed his hand held constantly. I've seen very few people here that trash his basketball skills. He's just a soft bitch who can't bring the ball up, or for that matter do ANYTHING with any pressure on him. He's in the perfect environment for him to thrive now: a loser team with no expectations that plays no defense.

[anakha]

It's all the coaching staff and FO's fault!!!

[The Truth #6]

There was a time when Beno was trying relatively harder but Pop gave those minutes to NVE. Pop gave up on Beno. At that point I thought it was a mistake. But Beno made the worse mistake by later giving up on himself when he did get minutes the next year. It was handled poorly by both, but worse by Beno because he put his career in jeopardy by getting lazy and out of shape.

I do think Pop should have pulled the trigger and traded Beno and Bones for Maggette when he had already given up on Beno and knew that was going to always favor Finley over Bones, but that's another discussion.

[Obstructed_View]

As of today, Beno's EFF per 48 min rating is 18.32. George Hill's is 19.87. You can't compare straight EFF ratings when one guy is averaging nearly ten minutes more per game. Add to this Hill's better defensive abilities, and the fact that the Spurs are paying him approximately one-quarter the salary that Beno makes, and Hill seems to me to clearly be the better player, and the better bargain.

Wow, and I thought I steamrolled him on this subject! :clap

[Manufan909]

Tully FTW.

[T Park]

There was a time when Beno was trying relatively harder but Pop gave those minutes to NVE. Pop gave up on Beno. At that point I thought it was a mistake. But Beno made the worse mistake by later giving up on himself when he did get minutes the next year. It was handled poorly by both, but worse by Beno because he put his career in jeopardy by getting lazy and out of shape.

I do think Pop should have pulled the trigger and traded Beno and Bones for Maggette when he had already given up on Beno and knew that was going to always favor Finley over Bones, but that's another discussion.


Pop only gave up on Beno to NVE, when Beno proved he again couldn't handle the frontcourt press

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pop only gave up on Beno to NVE, when Beno proved he again couldn't handle the frontcourt press

It's called a full court press.

[Obstructed_View]

It's called a full court press.

What is?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What is?

T Park referring to a "front court press"

[Obstructed_View]

T Park referring to a "front court press"

Which is a legitimate basketball term.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Which is a legitimate basketball term.

o rly?

[Obstructed_View]

o rly?

It's usually when you trap a player against the half court line when he steps across. To be honest, the last time I heard it was in seventh grade basketball, but it's still a legitimate term. :)

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It's usually when you trap a player against the half court line when he steps across. To be honest, the last time I heard it was in seventh grade basketball, but it's still a legitimate term. :)

ahh fair enough, I just googled it and couldn't find anything much on it.


Good to know:toast

[The Truth #6]

Pop only gave up on Beno to NVE, when Beno proved he again couldn't handle the frontcourt press



If only Pop had given up on NVE when it was obvious he was a turnstile on defense and bricklayer on offense, which was fairly early on.

At that point Beno was still a better option than NVE, and Pop even later admitted after to losing to the Mavs that he stuck with NVE way too long.

I don't recall the frontcourt press being the deciding issue but that's fine, we see it differently.

Neither options were great but at that point Beno was better motivated than later. This isn't to say I thought he was ever going to be a great fit here but he could have contributed more than the ghost of NVE.

[Obstructed_View]

ahh fair enough, I just googled it and couldn't find anything much on it.


Good to know:toast

Yeah, you won't find much because it's not used much beyond church leagues and prep schools. :)

[SpurSupremacist]

As of today, Beno's EFF per 48 min rating is 18.32. George Hill's is 19.87. You can't compare straight EFF ratings when one guy is averaging nearly ten minutes more per game. Add to this Hill's better defensive abilities, and the fact that the Spurs are paying him approximately one-quarter the salary that Beno makes, and Hill seems to me to clearly be the better player, and the better bargain.

Except per 48 minute stats are something almost no one goes by. Why? Because it's a bogus stat. For an example, I'll give Reggie Evans a few years ago. Based on his rebounding per 48 minutes, he was better than guys like Duncan and Garnett. Point proven.

Sure, Hill is a better defender. I'm not disputing that. But, Beno is so far ahead of him on offense that it makes his defensive shortcomings void. Hill's jumper is absolutely atrocious. I've seen better jumpers in rec leagues. His finishing is also still suspect, no matter how many finishes on Yao you want to show me. One game doesn't mean shit, especially on a poor defensive player like Yao.

[SpurSupremacist]

PZWN3D

See: Post above.

[SpurSupremacist]

Wow, and I thought I steamrolled him on this subject! :clap

Ehhh, except... not.

[Spur-Addict]

I don't think it's as much of an improvement, as much as I believe it's about finally seeing the real Hill.

All the indecision and lack of familiarity (the things I felt really hampered him during the summer) seem to be subsiding, thus we're starting to see the player the Spurs were so confident could contribute right away.

I really wanted a backup point/combo-guard in the draft, so I had my eye on Chalmers. I saw Chalmers as a bit of a young L.Hunter, and a guy that could contribute right away. I still feel that he would've been a good pick, and a solid contributor for years to come, but I also feel that he has nowhere near the upside of Hill.

Like most on the day of the draft, I was unfamiliar with Hill. After the Spurs picked him though, I went back and watched and read everything I could find on the kid.

Everything I found out about him lead me to believe that the Spurs found another gem, and that his summer showing was little more than an aberration.

Like Elliott said, he's like a little mini "Plastic-Man." He's got characteristics of Rondo, Harris, Ellis, (to name a few) and a toughness/demeanor that should serve him well.

Tonight Hill gave the Spur fans a glimpse of the havoc he should be able to create on both ends of the floor for years to come. Come to think of it...

George "Havoc" Hill, has a nice ring to it. :smokin

[Obstructed_View]

Ehhh, except... not.

The fact that you're too stupid to notice it doesn't change it. :lol

[Ice009]

Sure, Hill is a better defender. I'm not disputing that. But, Beno is so far ahead of him on offense that it makes his defensive shortcomings void. Hill's jumper is absolutely atrocious. I've seen better jumpers in rec leagues. His finishing is also still suspect, no matter how many finishes on Yao you want to show me. One game doesn't mean shit, especially on a poor defensive player like Yao.

WTF funny, I thought Beno's jumper was atrocious. You're saying he's a smooth shooter?

[Tully365]

Except per 48 minute stats are something almost no one goes by. Why? Because it's a bogus stat. For an example, I'll give Reggie Evans a few years ago. Based on his rebounding per 48 minutes, he was better than guys like Duncan and Garnett. Point proven.

Sure, Hill is a better defender. I'm not disputing that. But, Beno is so far ahead of him on offense that it makes his defensive shortcomings void. Hill's jumper is absolutely atrocious. I've seen better jumpers in rec leagues. His finishing is also still suspect, no matter how many finishes on Yao you want to show me. One game doesn't mean shit, especially on a poor defensive player like Yao.

You've cherry-picked one example-- Reggie Evans-- which isn't a legit example. Evans is in fact a very good rebounder, but unfortunately doesn't do anything else. That's why he doesn't play more minutes. If he wasn't an outstanding rebounder, Evans wouldn't even be in the NBA.

But if you are going to say that "one game doesn't mean shit," then how can you also say that Hill will not be better than Beno on offense? The simple fact of the matter is, Beno had his chance to be a back-up PG for a championship caliber team and was too weak in too many areas to be kept. He'll accumulate inflated stats for a mediocre Sacramento team now, but he's simply not the kind of complete player that leads teams to championships... whereas Hill just might be.

[exstatic]

You've cherry-picked one example-- Reggie Evans-- which isn't a legit example. Evans is in fact a very good rebounder, but unfortunately doesn't do anything else. That's why he doesn't play more minutes. If he wasn't an outstanding rebounder, Evans wouldn't even be in the NBA.

But if you are going to say that "one game doesn't mean shit," then how can you also say that Hill will not be better than Beno on offense? The simple fact of the matter is, Beno had his chance to be a back-up PG for a championship caliber team and was too weak in too many areas to be kept. He'll accumulate inflated stats for a mediocre Sacramento team now, but he's simply not the kind of complete player that leads teams to championships... whereas Hill just might be.

+1 Beno was a pussy, and I fail to understand anyone who claims to be a Spurs fan or understand the Spurs philosophy who still pines for his mentally weak ass. Girlz are exempt. They all want to mama his mama needing self.

[SpursFanFirst]

Girlz are exempt. They all want to mama his mama needing self.

...ummm....no.

[sexinthatsx]

Sometimes, you just have to face the fact that Pop would much rather keep veterans over young players. The fact that Beno got an MLE contract from the Kings surprises me, even given the stats he had when he was a spur. Maybe all he needed was a little confidence, and since he didn't find it here in the Spurs, I fail to recognize how us keeping him could've given him any more confidence

[ducks]

most playoff teams do not play their rookies alot of minutes

[BruceBowenFan]

bump

[CubanMustGo]

bump

[ducks]

bump

[cherylsteele]

Girlz are exempt. They all want to mama his mama needing self.
I know some guys that are like that.