Who won the NL MVP today?

[T Park]

Oh yeah, best first baseman of all time, thats who :)

[K-State Spur]

Not the best of all-time yet, but a deserved MVP. Should have been his 3rd in 4 years.

[FromWayDowntown]

:wtf

Lou Gehrig didn't win the NL MVP today.

[djohn14]

It pisses me off that people can actually argue that Ryan Howard should have won it. His batting average was .106 less than Pujols, while Pujols is better on D, and Howard had Chase Utley, Rollins, Burrell, the Flyin Hawaiian at his side, while Pujols had only Ludwick, and an occasional Glaus. Not to mention Howard played in a hitters ballpark.

[BRHornet45]

It pisses me off that people can actually argue that Ryan Howard should have won it. His batting average was .106 less than Pujols, while Pujols is better on D, and Howard had Chase Utley, Rollins, Burrell, the Flyin Hawaiian at his side, while Pujols had only Ludwick, and an occasional Glaus. Not to mention Howard played in a hitters ballpark.

thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. I am sick and tired of the media's obsession with Ryan Howard SIMPLY because he hits a lot of home runs. It was funny reading the article on ESPN and seeing how blatantly obvious that they try to fool the casual baseball fan into believing that Ryan Howard is pure greatness just because of his home runs and that he got screwed out of the MVP. When they talked about Pujols's stats, they showed all of his numbers (Batting average, H, HR, RBI, etc.) .... however, whenever they brought up Ryan Howard's stats, the ONLY numbers that they showed were his home runs (which they STRESSED at least twice that he led the league in) and his RBI's. its pretty convenient for them to leave out Howards other PATHETIC numbers in the batting average and strikeout department so that the casual fan will look past that huh? ... plain and simple, Pujols is twice as valuable to a team than Howard is in every way shape or form. Howard is a good player, but is one dimensional and swings for the fence every at bat. For every home run he hits, he will strikeout 5 times.

[K-State Spur]

It pisses me off that people can actually argue that Ryan Howard should have won it. His batting average was .106 less than Pujols, while Pujols is better on D, and Howard had Chase Utley, Rollins, Burrell, the Flyin Hawaiian at his side, while Pujols had only Ludwick, and an occasional Glaus. Not to mention Howard played in a hitters ballpark.

Well, batting average is still one of the WORST ways to judge a hitter, but yes - Pujols clearly had a superior year than Howard. He had a 190 OPS+ compared to Howard's 124, that's a ridiculous disparity.

[T Park]

:wtf

Lou Gehrig didn't win the NL MVP today.

I thought Lou Gehrig was an outfielder?

[FromWayDowntown]

I thought Lou Gehrig was an outfielder?

Uh, no.

He played in 2164 major league games and made 2137 appearances as a first baseman. He did play 9 games in the outfield and 1 at shortstop (a streak-extender), but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't qualify as either the best outfielder of all-time or the best shortstop.

He is the best first baseman of all time, though.

[K-State Spur]

Yeah, it's Gehrig (career 179 OPS+). But Pujols is surprisingly close (career 170 OPS+) if he stays at this pace for another 7 years or so.

Jimmie Foxx & Hank Greenberg would be in the upper echelon as well.

After that, it's a pretty steep drop-off as you have guys like Eddie Murray and Willie McCovey.

[T Park]

I've got a feeling when its all said and done, Pujols will at least challenge the Iron Horse for rights to said "GOAT"

[FromWayDowntown]

I've got a feeling when its all said and done, Pujols will at least challenge the Iron Horse for rights to said "GOAT"

Oh I think he's on pace to be among the 5 greatest ever at that position -- if he keeps up his current numbers (which I suspect he will). I just don't think he's quite in Gehrig's company yet and, obviously, would take umbrage with the notion is the best ever to regularly play first base.

[T Park]

Oh I think he's on pace to be among the 5 greatest ever at that position -- if he keeps up his current numbers (which I suspect he will). I just don't think he's quite in Gehrig's company yet and, obviously, would take umbrage with the notion is the best ever to regularly play first base.

We shall see.

I don't have Gehrig's numbers with me, but I don't know if he hit homeruns like Pujols does.

Was Gehrig known as a great fielding first baseman?

Pujols does have a gold glove to his name from last year, (and should've this year, fucking sportswriters)

[FromWayDowntown]

For his career, here are Gehrig's offensive numbers:

BA: .340
OBP: .447
SLG: .632
OPS: 1.079
RUNS: 1888
HITS: 2721
2B: 534
3B: 163
HR: 493
RBI: 1995
SB: 102
BB: 1508
K: 790

More than the sheer numbers for me, it's Gehrig's sustained greatness that makes him virtually untouchable as the All-Time first baseman. Consider this: over the 10 seasons from 1927 through 1936, these were Gehrig's average numbers -- not his best season in each category, but his averages:

.350/.457/.660; 141 R, 202 H, 39 2b, 12 3b, 39 HR, 153 RBI, 112 BB, 382 TB

Now, Albert's career numbers are comparable, but even if you gave Pujols his very best season in each category over the last 8 years and made that one season, his numbers would look like this:

.359/.462/.671; 137 R, 212 H, 51 2b, 4 3b, 49 HR, 137 RBI, 104 BB, 394 TB

To be sure, several of those numbers are better than what I posted for Gehrig, but in many categories, Gehrig's averages and Pujols's best are similar. But to me, the fact that Gehrig's 10-year average is virtually on par with what would be a career year for Pujols is striking.

(Give Gehrig the same "career year" and you get this:
.379/.478/.765; 167 R, 220 H, 52 2b, 18 3b, 49 HR, 184 RBI, 132 BB, 447 TB)

Pujols's best OPS+ year was 2008, in which he was at 190; he's been north of 160 in 5 of the last 6 seasons. Gehrig's best OPS+ year was in 1927, in which he was at 221; Gehrig was north of 160 in 11 straight seasons from 1927-1937.

They're both great, great players; but I have a very soft spot in my heart for Gehrig and think the numbers back him up.

Oh, and as for fielding, I'll be among the many who'll say that Gold Gloves are a nonsensical measure of a fielder's ability -- that Michael Young won a Gold Glove in 2008 is testament to that. Gehrig was slightly better than the league average in fielding percentage (he was .991 and the league was .990), but he was involved in substantially more chances per game (about 3 more) than the league average, too. Pujols is just about the same guy, in relative terms: his fielding percentage at first base is .994, the league's is .993; Pujols is involved in slightly less than 3 chances per game more than the league average.

[K-State Spur]

yeah, gold gloves are crap today. they lost any meaning when they gave one to Raffy for playing less than 30 games in the field. they gained negative meaning when they gave Jeter 2. But FWIW - the Fielding Bible puts Pujols @ #1.

It should also be emphasized that Gehrig put up his numbers in a lower offensive era compared to the one that Pujols played in (as evidence by the OPS+).

[MajorMike]

Pujols winning Gold Gloves is a story in and of itself. When he was an outfielder in his 1st few seasons, he was widely known to be a defensive liability, ala Man-E. Since his move to first, he has worked hard and is now regarded as one of the best fielding 1st-basemen in the game. This is a great testament to his all around game and work ethic.

Having now won 2 MVP (and arguably should have at least 1 more) been to 2 WS, winning one, an ML POY award in a year he didn't win the MVP, NLCS MVP, in only 8 years in the show, he's off to an amazing start. In the past 6 years he has been #1 or #2 in OPS (was #10 both his ts 2 years), never lower than #7 BA his entire career, never lower than #9 in slugging, never lower than #10 in total bases or HR or RBI, never lower than #9 in runs created, since 2002 never lower than #2 in batting wins, has a lower SO per at bat than most any other MVP-type candidate.

At 28 years of age:
Big Al has more hits (1531) than anyone but Ott (1775) Aaron (1697) Foxx (1690) and Griffey Jr (1569). Sweet Lou had 1350 at that age.
Only Ott, Mantle, Foxx and Aaron had more runs.
Only Griffey, Mantle and Foxx had more HR.
Only Foxx, Gehrig and Mantle had higher BA.
Only Gehrig and Ott had fewer strike outs.

Some good company.

[ducks]

I've got a feeling when its all said and done, Pujols will at least challenge the Iron Horse for rights to said "GOAT"

I watch him he sucks most of the time

[FromWayDowntown]

I watch him he sucks most of the time

So, on ducks' "sucks" list, we definitively have the following names:

Lebron James
Manny Ramirez
Albert Pujols

[DarkReign]

So, on ducks' "sucks" list, we definitively have the following names:

Lebron James
Manny Ramirez
Albert Pujols

Hmmm, I'm noticing a pattern...

[T Park]

I watch him he sucks most of the time

Albert Pujols.




Kill yourself.

[Reggie Miller]

Biggest Distinction Between Gherig and Pujols:

Arterial lateral sclerosis. Whereas we may never know whether or not Pujols has taken PEDs, we know that Gherig suffered from a major disease and could have been better for longer otherwise.

Despite being a Cubs' fan, I'm not too stupid to realize that Pujols is a first ballot HOF player. However, he will never have the emotional connection to generations that Gherig has had ("Today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth..."), nor will he have some of the peripheral accomplishments (consecutive game streak, WS appearances, biopics, etc.). In other words, Pujols could very well be the best 1B of all time, but I don't think he will ever be recognized as such because of Gherig.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Bagwell >>>> Pujols

[MajorMike]

Bagwell >>>> Pujols

rofl

Bagwell: 15 years, 1 MVP, 4 All Star, 3 Silver Sluggers (all before Pujols was 1B), .226 Post Season BA, 1 Pennant, no rings
Pujols: 8 years, 2 MVP, 1 add'l ML PoY, 7 All Star, 4 Silver Sluggers, .323 Post Season BA, 2 Pennants, 1 NLCS MVP, 1 Ring

Yeah, that's close.

[T Park]

Bagwell >>>> Pujols

Yeah I don't think so.