BCS vs Playoff System

[cash459]

Hey, not sure how many of you guys heard, which im sure most of you have, but ESPN signed a deal to televise the BCS bowls until 2014.....which by the way means that there is NO chance of having a playoff system implemented before that contract expires (or so i heard).

that is all......discuss......

[kwhitegocubs]

So you just like destroying the hopes and dreams of well-meaning football fans? Hmm?

The BCS is the Anti-Christ of all sports. It's like Pandora's Box without the "hope" part.

How a system can exist that, for all intensive purposes, disqualifies 5 conferences from realistic consideration for a National Championship? One that allows a team to finish a season undefeated and still not have even a CHANCE for a championship (Auburn 2004, Utah 2004, Boise State 2006, likely Utah, Boise State, and Ball State this year). It is so flawed as to not even be comprehensible. All in the name of greed and power.

HATE!

[lebomb]

The BCS is a total piece of shit. There is NEVER, and I mean NEVER, EVER a true D1 college football national champ in my opinion.

[leemajors]

they don't start broadcasting them until 2011

[cash459]

they don't start broadcasting them until 2011

yeah, but that means until after that contract runs out, that there wont be any changes made to the "system"

& wasnt trying to rain on anyones parade, just trying to inform, b/c i know there are a lot of people that despise the BCS. Im on the fnece, but just wanted to share the knowledge

[tonylongoriafan]

The BCS is the Anti-Christ of all sports. It's like Pandora's Box without the "hope" part.

How a system can exist that, for all intensive purposes, disqualifies 5 conferences from realistic consideration for a National Championship? One that allows a team to finish a season undefeated and still not have even a CHANCE for a championship (Auburn 2004, Utah 2004, Boise State 2006, likely Utah, Boise State, and Ball State this year). It is so flawed as to not even be comprehensible.

i don't think it's really that bad...more times than not, the bcs has done a better job than the previous system in place. at the very least, you get a number 1 vs number 2 every year with a lot of money!

don't get me wrong, a +1 system would be definitely better. but the bcs isn't that bad...is it?

[IronMexican]

Fuck! I liked being able to watch games on my regular TV.

[leemajors]

Fuck! I liked being able to watch games on my regular TV.

well, ESPN "broadasts" all the games on ABC as well. It's likely some of them will remain on ABC.

[K-State Spur]

don't get me wrong, a +1 system would be definitely better. but the bcs isn't that bad...is it?

it's pretty f'ing terrible. there's not one argument for it that's not easily refutable.

the only people that it makes sense for are the bowl committees, bowl sponsors, big 10/pac 10 conference commissioners, and school presidents receiving kickbacks.

why the fans continue to tolerate it is thoroughly ridiculous.

[ClingingMars]

the only way to determine a true champion is through the FCS!

-Mars

[IronMexican]

well, ESPN "broadasts" all the games on ABC as well. It's likely some of them will remain on ABC.

So what the OP meant was that Disney bought it.

[lebomb]

it's pretty f'ing terrible. there's not one argument for it that's not easily refutable.

the only people that it makes sense for are the bowl committees, bowl sponsors, big 10/pac 10 conference commissioners, and school presidents receiving kickbacks.

why the fans continue to tolerate it is thoroughly ridiculous.


:worthy: Beautiful choice of wording.

I agree 100% The BCS is a piece of rancid shit floating in an old nasty toilet bowl.

[samikeyp]

it's pretty f'ing terrible. there's not one argument for it that's not easily refutable.

the only people that it makes sense for are the bowl committees, bowl sponsors, big 10/pac 10 conference commissioners, and school presidents receiving kickbacks.

why the fans continue to tolerate it is thoroughly ridiculous.

+10

[Blake]

it's pretty f'ing terrible. there's not one argument for it that's not easily refutable.

the only people that it makes sense for are the bowl committees, bowl sponsors, big 10/pac 10 conference commissioners, and school presidents receiving kickbacks.

why the fans continue to tolerate it is thoroughly ridiculous.

There is not one argument, you're right.

But presidents of the mid level universities will keep on shooting it down because they are afraid of losing out money to the big schools that would be making the playoffs year after year.

Notre Dame also puts a big wrinkle in things. The most recognizable university in the country is an independent and has no plans of changing that.

When a team like OU goes to a BCS game, the millions in payout from the bowl are split up between all 12 teams.

When ND goes, they keep all the money for themselves.

A playoff system would practically force ND to join a conference which means they lose money. No way they ever vote for playoffs.

[lebomb]

No way they ever vote for playoffs.


Here you go with the definite's...............Oh, I think there is a way. When the fans get tired of all the BS and decides to stop supporting the BCS. I think its getting closer than ever to ending this. Also, coaches of these very same teams you are talking about are starting to complain. The BCS can hurt teams as well as help them. Just ask Pete Caroll at USC.

[doobs]

I say screw the BCS AND the playoff system. The problem with instituting a playoff system: the regular season would lose some of its meaning. The problem with the BCS: d'uh.

We should revert to the old bowl games--e.g., PAC-10 champ and Big 10 champ in the Rose Bowl--but add a national championship game to take place afterwards. So the two best teams would have to play in two bowl games.

This would be good for those of us who like the history of the bowl games. This would also ensure, almost every time, that the #1 and #2 teams meet in the last game.

[tonylongoriafan]

I say screw the BCS AND the playoff system. The problem with instituting a playoff system: the regular season would lose some of its meaning. The problem with the BCS: d'uh.

We should revert to the old bowl games--e.g., PAC-10 champ and Big 10 champ in the Rose Bowl--but add a national championship game to take place afterwards. So the two best teams would have to play in two bowl games.

This would be good for those of us who like the history of the bowl games. This would also ensure, almost every time, that the #1 and #2 teams meet in the last game.

didn't someone else mention a +1 system :toast

[chrisattsu]

the only way to determine a true champion is through the FCS!

-Mars

I agree, but what's the point of winning a national championship if nobody recognizes it.

How much respect does Grand Valley State or Appy State carry to the average fan?

[doobs]

didn't someone else mention a +1 system :toast

I like the +1 system. What I'm proposing is a little different, I think, from what the +1 system would entail. My understanding is that the +1 system would have the top 4 teams meet in two bowl games, with the winners going to a third bowl game, for thenational championship. This is a pretty good idea, but it still relies on the shitty and convoluted BCS rankings nonsense to establish those 4 teams. I want to scrap the BCS altogether.

My idea is just to have the traditional bowl games. And then, after the bowl games, we would almost certainly have a consensus #1 and #2. Those two teams would play in the national championship. No computer rankings, just honest-to-God polls based on their performances in the bowl games.

[lebomb]

I say screw the BCS AND the playoff system. The problem with instituting a playoff system: the regular season would lose some of its meaning.


Sooooooo, basically this holds true to all other sports as well?? College and Pro for baseball, basketball Pro football, hockey...............fuck every team game in the world beside D-1A college football. :rolleyes

:lmao , you are a genius.

[lebomb]

I agree, but what's the point of winning a national championship if nobody recognizes it.

How much respect does Grand Valley State or Appy State carry to the average fan?

Lower division man.....lower division. He is saying have a FCS for D-1A like the current FCS.

[tonylongoriafan]

My idea is just to have the traditional bowl games. And then, after the bowl games, we would almost certainly have a consensus #1 and #2. Those two teams would play in the national championship. No computer rankings, just honest-to-God polls based on their performances in the bowl games.

thats not going to work either because you can just as easily NOT have a consensus #1/#2 after a round of bowl games staggered over 4 weeks where upsets between top teams are almost certain to occur.

not trying to come off as a bcs-appologist, but i think it does a good job of ranking the top teams, i don't think this is the real issue that bothers everyone. the shitty part is that there will always be an argument for #1/2 no matter what's ranking (humans or computers) unless there's a playoff. and +1 with the top 4 teams is the way to go...they already added the national title game a few years ago...that's the answer :bking

[doobs]

Sooooooo, basically this holds true to all other sports as well?? :rolleyes

:lmao , you are a genius.

We're talking about college football, not other sports. Part of what I love about college football is the fact that a single loss can screw a team over for that year. You don't think the regular season becomes less meaningful when you can just make up for losses in the playoffs? Do you honestly even give a crap about regular season baseball or basketball? I mean, I love the Spurs, but I don't really care that much about the games until April.

Blake Gideon dropping that INT may have cost Texas the national championship. One. Single. Play.

[doobs]

thats not going to work either because you can just as easily NOT have a consensus #1/#2 after a round of bowl games staggered over 4 weeks where upsets between top teams are almost certain to occur.

not trying to come off as a bcs-appologist, but i think it does a good job of ranking the top teams, i don't think this is the real issue that bothers everyone. the shitty part is that there will always be an argument for #1/2 no matter what's ranking (humans or computers) unless there's a playoff. and +1 with the top 4 teams is the way to go...they already added the national title game a few years ago...that's the answer :bking

Frankly, I can't remember a dispute, pre-BCS, as to who the top 2 teams were. I remember disputes as to which team was the best, but it always seemed to come down to 2 teams only (UW and Miami, Michigan and Nebraska, etc.). I don't know, maybe there were disputes about who was #3 and who was #2. I just don't remember.

[lebomb]

I dont understand the argument of how a playoff system LIKE EVERY OTHER SPORT HAS............cannot be made to work with D1-A football. Its too fucking stupid to even ask this question. It would be so easy to do........just off the top of my head.

The top 8 ranked schools in the country have a tourney based on ranking 1 v 8, 2 v 7, 3 v 6, 4 v 5 then the semi-final round, then the championship game. You can rotate the top bowls each year and the championship game would go to that bowl. The other bowls for teams 9 and up...............hell who gives a shit about the bowls left at this point. They will be just as meaningless as they are now.

This is just a quick thought on how to do it. What is the big fucking deal.

JUST DO IT!!! At least we will all feel more comfortable about who should really be #1.

[Blake]

Here you go with the definite's...............Oh, I think there is a way. When the fans get tired of all the BS and decides to stop supporting the BCS. I think its getting closer than ever to ending this. Also, coaches of these very same teams you are talking about are starting to complain. The BCS can hurt teams as well as help them. Just ask Pete Caroll at USC.

I was talking about the Notre Dame president never voting for it.

I could see a +1 system be put in place some time in the next 10 years, but that may be the extent of it for a loooong time.

[lebomb]

I was talking about the Notre Dame president never voting for it.

I could see a +1 system be put in place some time in the next 10 years, but that may be the extent of it for a loooong time.

Oh yeah, I can see Notre Dame not voting for it........but Pete Carol has already lobbied for a playoff system......seems his team loses one game a year, and by the end of the season they are peaking......he feels his team should have a shot at the title game.....yet with the stunning loss, they usually aren't considered.

[chrisattsu]

Lower division man.....lower division. He is saying have a FCS for D-1A like the current FCS.

I am only going to speculate, but I don't think he is. I spend quite a bit of time on FCS messageboards (especially anygivensaturday). The people who post on those boards absolutely love FCS. The rip on teams that play for the mythical national championship, and trash former FCS-now FBS teams especially those in the 'lesser conferences'.

[lebomb]

I am only going to speculate, but I don't think he is. I spend quite a bit of time on FCS messageboards (especially anygivensaturday). The people who post on those boards absolutely love FCS. The rip on teams that play for the mythical national championship, and trash former FCS-now FBS teams especially those in the 'lesser conferences'.


Thats cool.........either way, I think a playoff system is a no brainer.

[j-6]

What I don't get is that March Madness is my favorite sporting event of the year, and there's plenty others like me out there. Weighing the popularity of the two sports, there's no way a football playoff system - whether it be 4, 8, 12, or 16 teams - won't capture the public's attention. Max out the regular season at ten games, put a title game in every conference, have a seeding committee and selection Sunday, and get this show on the road! The maximum games a team can play in is 15 in this format. Just start the season a week earlier and own the entire month of December.

[Blake]

Oh yeah, I can see Notre Dame not voting for it........but Pete Carol has already lobbied for a playoff system......seems his team loses one game a year, and by the end of the season they are peaking......he feels his team should have a shot at the title game.....yet with the stunning loss, they usually aren't considered.

right.

All of your big time schools that are in the top 8 year in and year out of course want a playoff system (except for Notre Dame).

The schools that don't want it are your lower end teams that might miss out on getting into a bowl.

I know there shouldn't be, but there is a perception that a playoff system would wipe out many of the 30 some odd bowls. Sorry, no more Papajohns Bowl......

[samikeyp]

right.

All of your big time schools that are in the top 8 year in and year out of course want a playoff system (except for Notre Dame).

The schools that don't want it are your lower end teams that might miss out on getting into a bowl.

I know there shouldn't be, but there is a perception that a playoff system would wipe out many of the 30 some odd bowls. Sorry, no more Papajohns Bowl......

It doesn't have to wipe out any bowls, although I wouldn't mind that happening.

Use your big bowls for your playoff sites and use the other ones to reward teams for good seasons. Let your 6, 7 and 8 win teams go to the lesser bowls. It's still rewards teams for winning records, gives a nice trip for the alumni and adds money to the cities who host.

[K-State Spur]

It will happen eventually. Once the +1 domino falls, it will expand to 16 relatively quickly thereafter.

There's too much money to be gained through a playoff. College basketball (which is nowhere near as popular as college football) has a TV contract for its postseason that is worth over 5x the currently television deal for college football. Once the powers that be pull their heads out of their asses and realize that they are leaving a gigantic pile of money in the corner, they'll adjust.

But it might take the next generation to do so.

And yes, to the other poster, there would have been great controversy as to who was #1-3 in many years pre-BCS.

[chode_regulator]

i dont really know what to think. yes the bcs system is flawed, im not denying that, but will playoff really be that much better?

i know no one here probably likes nascar, and it is a completely different situation, but in my opnion the "playoff" theyve added to their system is ruinging nascar. i mean, i hate kyle busch and am glad he didnt end up winning, but they say no one has ever came back from over 400 pionts with 10 races remaining, which is how htey decided on the 10 race format and the 400 points or closer, or top 12. but jimmie went on a tear and would have beat kyle anyway, even if the opints wouldnt have been wiped out and that would have been one of the most dramatic comebacks in nascar history. instead it was kinda boring.

back to football, i guarantee you, that at least for the first couple years, taht no matter what college fb changes to people will complain just as bitterly. its human nature. i mean i can see arguing about who should be number 3-5 right now, but to give a team that is number 8, or even 16 if it expanded that far, a shot at winning the championsihp is kinda dumb. i mean obviously teams 10-16 right now would get demolished, if they were to end up playing a top 5 team after it all got sorted out. they dont deserve to even be there, with two losses.

[kwhitegocubs]

Here's the solution:

16 Teams - Makes for a nice easy format

11 Conference Winners - That way every team has a realistic path to the title from the start of the year. You HAVE to give teams a shot. This year there will likely be 3 undefeated teams from "mid-major" conferences and only 1 will even play in a BCS game. This despite the fact that Utah is in the MWC, the third-best league. And Boise State is better than every team from the Big East and ACC by a wide margin. Ball State, BYU, and TCU are better than any Big East or ACC team too. Yet the ACC and/or Big East will have at least one each and possibly two (!)

5 At-Larges. In most years this will still skew the field towards deserving 2nd and 3rd place teams from so-called BCS conferences. However, a deserving league like the MWC this year might get in a second team.

The field (at this point) would shape up to be: Texas Tech, Alabama, Penn State, (ACC Champ - Maryland/Miami?), Cincinnati, Tulsa, Ball State, Alabama, Utah, Boise State, and Troy for the Conf. Champs.

At-Larges: Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Georgia (based on BCS Overall)

I, however, would base the at-larges on the computer rankings - using human polls that have serial influence is stupid - i.e. a pre-season poll based on nothing will end up keeping one team with similar performance above an unranked or lower-ranked team with the same or better performance.

This year that would lead to the same group, however. Happy coincidence!

D-1AA is going to a 20-team playoff, and a 20-game would add these four additional teams: Oklahoma State, Missouri, BYU, and TCU. Michigan State is right there on the bubble as well.

I'd rather have a tense selection show between the 16th and 17th or 20th and 21st teams than have an undefeated team left out of even playing in a BCS bowl, much less for a national title.

One tweak that I could allow - if a team's conference champion is below a certain level (30th maybe), they don't get in. I admit that Troy this year is awfully unworthy of playing for a title, BUT if Mississippi Valley State can play in the NCAA basketball tournament, I don't see the harm in letting Troy play.

[Blake]

It doesn't have to wipe out any bowls, although I wouldn't mind that happening.

Use your big bowls for your playoff sites and use the other ones to reward teams for good seasons. Let your 6, 7 and 8 win teams go to the lesser bowls. It's still rewards teams for winning records, gives a nice trip for the alumni and adds money to the cities who host.

the thing about using a bowl as a playoff game is that you are asking the fans to travel all over the country to watch their team play week after week during the playoffs. It would never fly.

Teams would absolutely cry for home field throughout some of the playoffs as it costs money to travel.

Look at Texas Tech, they actually lost money by going to the Gator Bowl last year.

[lebomb]

the thing about using a bowl as a playoff game is that you are asking the fans to travel all over the country to watch their team play week after week during the playoffs. It would never fly.

Teams would absolutely cry for home field throughout some of the playoffs as it costs money to travel.

Look at Texas Tech, they actually lost money by going to the Gator Bowl last year.


This may be true...........but what I KNOW is true............the BCS doesnt work. Its cant work.......how can someone be called a true champ based on speculation? It just doesnt work. Maybe the teams can make the money up with TV. Also, dont you believe some of these bowl games that teams have to travel to will draw interest from the cities where the bowls are played?? Its alot different if its a one and done situation.

[tonylongoriafan]

This may be true...........but what I KNOW is true............the BCS doesnt work. Its cant work.......how can someone be called a true champ based on speculation? It just doesnt work. Maybe the teams can make the money up with TV. Also, dont you believe some of these bowl games that teams have to travel to will draw interest from the cities where the bowls are played?? Its alot different if its a one and done situation.

under a multi-tiered playoff system, you almost have to play 1 to 2 home games...at the very most, i don't think it would be fair to ask a higher ranked team to perhaps travel to a bowl game that may or may not provide a home field advantage to the lower ranked team...slippery slope...

for example in a 8 team playoff, current standings would have #3 texas play #6 usc. there would be at least a 1 in 5 chance that this could be the rose bowl game...now why should texas travel to the west coast if they are ranked higher?

this is a hypothetical but don't tell me it won't happen because if it can, it will. if your going to use the bowls in any playoff scenario, they will want to know before the season who gets which games regardless of teams involved. and there will be definitely unfair "nuetral" site draws because of the locations of these bowl games...anyone in the SEC is going to have an advantage in the sugar bowl.

it needs to be either a +1 system or a 4 team playoff. the thing with college football is that there are not as many games as in other sports. the nfl system works great but it's regular season is 5-6 games longer and there aren't as many teams...is the real problem the college conferences? or are there just too many teams and not enough games? :wow

[K-State Spur]

i dont really know what to think. yes the bcs system is flawed, im not denying that, but will playoff really be that much better?


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

[doobs]

When the BCS functions properly, I must admit, the results are phenomenal. The main advantage of the BCS is it allows the #1 and #2 teams to get healthy and rested before the national championship. A playoff system or a +1 system would introduce the added frustration of, "well so-and-so got injured, so I guess we'll never know who was the best."

The 2005 season was a fantastic display of BCS awesomeness. Texas and USC were the top 2 teams the whole season. Both teams went undefeated. Both teams had plenty of time to get healthy and rested before the Rose Bowl. And then we were treated to the best college football game ever.

That said, I hate the BCS. On balance, a playoff or a +1 system would probably be better.

[ClingingMars]

I agree, but what's the point of winning a national championship if nobody recognizes it.

How much respect does Grand Valley State or Appy State carry to the average fan?

After the Michigan game, I'd say App State garners a lot of respect, as much as I hate them.

Also Grand Valley State? never heard of 'em. unless you mean Youngstown State.

and the more we get FCS on TV, the more people will see the games are just as good as the BCS.

-Mars

[ClingingMars]

I am only going to speculate, but I don't think he is. I spend quite a bit of time on FCS messageboards (especially anygivensaturday). The people who post on those boards absolutely love FCS. The rip on teams that play for the mythical national championship, and trash former FCS-now FBS teams especially those in the 'lesser conferences'.

I don't go to AGS because it's basically CrApp State fans. I go to caazone.com and as I have said, FCS games are good, too. but I feel like the BCS should fashion themselves after the FCS.

-Mars