Ludden: For the Spurs, its just like old times

[mystargtr34]

For the Spurs, it’s just like old times
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports

Tony Parker limped down the tunnel that Friday night, clinging to the shoulder of a trainer, and even Gregg Popovich had to wonder. Manu Ginobili had already spent five games in a sports coat and now Parker was certain to need his own. Injuries come and go. Every coach understands that. But somewhere along the way in those first 10 days of the season, Popovich’s San Antonio Spurs had also seemed to lose some of their soul.

The Spurs won four championships in nine seasons, including three in the past six, because they defended as well as anyone in the NBA. Now, they weren’t even doing that. Popovich questioned whether his players had taken their defense for granted. Or whether they had just stopped listening to him altogether.

“Have I been here too long?” Popovich wondered.

Nearly two weeks later, the question seems to have answered itself. The Spurs have won their past three games to nudge their record to the break-even mark. They’re treading water, or, as Popovich says, “hanging on” until Ginobili and Parker return. All but three of their 10 games have hinged on a single possession, and aside from a stirring comeback victory over the Houston Rockets, they really haven’t beaten anyone of merit. Up next are the Denver Nuggets and Utah Jazz, both of whom should prove considerably more challenging. Their margin of error remains razor-thin.

But the Spurs are defending once again, and that says something not only about from where they’ve come, but also where they might be headed. And why it might be wise to hold off shoveling another layer of dirt on them. They’re old and they’re missing Parker and Ginobili, but they still have Tim Duncan and they still have their coach, and that should count for something.

As New York Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni said a week ago, “You know Popovich and Duncan will eventually figure it out.”

Patience has been forced upon Popovich and Duncan this fall, a virtue neither has had much use for in recent years. Together, they are trying to prop the Spurs’ championship window from closing shut, molding a roster that is long on years at some positions and short on experience at others. They will wait on Ginobili and Parker for at least another couple weeks, trying to claw out as many wins in the meantime while hastening the development of their younger players.

“The whole damn equation has changed,” Popovich said. “It’s a maxi-transition and we were going to do it on a mini basis.”

During these unusual times, the Spurs have leaned on their two constants: defense and Duncan. Even before Parker sprained his left ankle, the Spurs had slipped defensively, plummeting to the bottom of the league in most major categories. Popovich worried that his well-worn pound-the-rock message had gone stale. But the more he and his staff looked at the film, the more they realized that it was the coaches who had changed rather than the effort of their players. Over the summer, the staff had implemented a few wrinkles to the team’s system, which included varying how they defended the pick-and-roll.

“Creative, intelligent coaching moves,” Popovich said with his trademark sarcasm, “that turned out to be dog doo-doo.”

The Spurs have won over the years because they do the ordinary extraordinarily, and after a loss to the Miami Heat dropped the record to 1-4, Popovich returned to stressing the tenants of the team’s defense: Keep ball-handlers out of the middle of the lane; funnel them baseline into the arms of their shot-blockers; and don’t give up open 3-pointers from the corners. In the five games since, the Spurs have yielded 80, 82, 75, 88 and 83 points.

“That’s given us a chance to win,” Popovich said.

So has Duncan. He returned this fall leaner and stronger, having spent part of the summer throwing tractor tires as part of a new training program developed by the team’s strength-and-conditioning staff. Opponents also have quickly learned that Duncan’s shooting stroke, in addition to his tread chucking, looks as smooth as ever.

Over the years, Duncan had become increasingly hesitant about firing from distance, figuring the team had better shooters who could do that. Popovich convinced him such indecision was creating too many end-of-the-clock situations for his teammates. More and more, he’s now committing to shooting the open jumper. So far this season, he’s averaged 23.9 points on 56.2 percent shooting, the latter of which would be the highest of his career.

Duncan also has realized another benefit from diversifying his game. “It lessens the pounding I take,” he said.

Popovich frets about taxing Duncan too much, and not just because he’s averaging nearly four minutes per game more than he’d averaged the previous four seasons. For much of the past six seasons, the Spurs have closed games with the same core around Duncan: Parker at the point and Ginobili and Bruce Bowen on the wings. Even Fabricio Oberto had become something of a mainstay at center. These days, Duncan often takes the floor with a collection of youngsters and journeymen surrounding him.

George Hill, the rookie who’s starting in place of Parker, has the potential to be “one of the best defenders to come into the league at his position,” Popovich thinks. But he’s also a novice at the point and is limited offensively. Roger Mason, the sharpshooter from Washington, has turned out to be a nice free-agent pickup, but he, too, lacks experience with the Spurs. Bowen started every game he’s played for the Spurs for more than seven seasons, but he’s now coming off the bench because the team needs more scoring with Ginobili and Parker out.

“I don’t think there’s a team in this league that’s going to feel sorry for us,” Duncan said. “Everybody’s got to deal with it. Everybody’s got to fight through it. We’ll find our way.”

Duncan has played the role of veteran guide. He’s directed Hill and Mason on the floor and in huddles, and has had to learn to live with their mistakes. On the opening possession of a recent game against the Los Angeles Clippers, Duncan motioned Hill toward Michael Finley. Instead, Hill fired the ball back at Duncan, nearly clipping him in the chin.

Duncan, too, has surprised some of his new teammates. “I didn’t know he had so much personality,” Mason said.

Popovich has praised Duncan for his patience and empathy, but he’s had to show the same. Said Ginobili: “It’s been tough for Pop, too.”

Help should be on the way. Ginobili, who underwent surgery on his left ankle after re-injuring it during the Olympics, hasn’t had any setbacks and is now playing two-on-two. The Spurs don’t have a firm timeline for his return, but Ginobili and Popovich both remain cautiously optimistic he could be back in the lineup in two weeks, depending on the amount of practice time afforded the team. Parker also is progressing and could return near the end of the first week of December.

The Spurs have trolled the trade market, inquiring about Golden State Warriors forward Al Harrington, but there are concerns about Harrington’s back. And aside from their three stars, the Spurs have filled their roster with role players in the truest sense. “No one wants their guys,” said one scout.

Father Time continues to gain on the Spurs, and this transition likely would have been smoother were it not for some bad luck and a bad decision or two. Brazilian forward Tiago Splitter, the team’s 2007 first-round pick, elected to remain in Europe this season because the U.S. dollar had grown so weak. Another former pick, Argentine forward Luis Scola, continues to thrive in Houston. All the reasons the Spurs gave for trading Scola now ring hollow. Popovich, too, has admitted he might have been too quick to cast Beno Udrih aside.

Still, one thing has never changed within these Spurs. Only the strongest survive. Popovich and Duncan are forever building for that next title together, and you’re either with them or you aren’t. They’re connected emotionally and temperamentally, the respect and appreciation between the two unwavering even if the stubbornness of each sometimes grates on the other.

This week, someone asked Popovich why he grew out his beard. “Because I wanted to go from a 9,” he said, “to a 10.” In truth, Popovich let it go untrimmed all summer after Duncan goaded him into it.

“They communicate at a level that very few mates ever do,” Spurs GM RC Buford said, “and it’s often communication that doesn’t have to be spoken.”

So, for two more weeks, at least, Duncan and Popovich will try to prop up the Spurs, one directing from the sideline, the other from the court. Maybe time has already caught them. Even with Ginobili and Parker, the Spurs will have trouble measuring up to the talent and depth of the Los Angeles Lakers. But they’ll win or they won’t, as Popovich likes to say. This much is true: They’re defending again and they haven’t stopped working. The rest of the league hasn’t exhaled just yet.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AmhsxlJ_eH7sXaS1O6CyuhG8vLYF?slug=jy-spurs111908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting, i thought they would make a run at him - but obviously couldnt con anyone into taking our scrubs. Maybe if Bonner keeps putting up some nice numbers the Warriors will take him considering he can shoot the long ball, and throw in a filler and a second rounder or something.






Im not sure what im allowed to copy and paste or link?

[Galileo]

Great to see the Spurs & TD on the yahoo NBA home page!

[DPG21920]

except that they are calling our team scrubs and saying no one wants them. which is true.

[timvp]

Damn, awesome article by Ludden. He's becoming one of the best writers in sports.

Very interesting points throughout.

[Mark in Austin]

Wow. I forgot what it's like when somebody with skills writes a story on the Spurs.

...and on the Harrington thing, Ludden is STILL scooping the E-N guys on Spurs stories. Damn.

[benefactor]

Ludden could clip off one fingernail and it would still be enough of him to own Monroe and McDonald combined.

[Spurs Brazil]

Great to read Ludden

This article is better and have more inside info than any of McDonald crap

[timvp]

And aside from their three stars, the Spurs have filled their roster with role players in the truest sense. “No one wants their guys,” said one scout.This is so true. Outside the Big Three and perhaps Mason and Hill, the Spurs literally have no parts to trade. They don't even have a first rounder to trade or expiring contracts. Unless they want to sell low on Mahinmi, I don't see how they could make a trade this year even if they wanted to.

Oh and :td @ Harrington trade. Bad fit.

[SenorSpur]

I still think the Spurs could get Sean Williams for a low-ball price, if they were really serious about it.

[TheProfessor]

“No one wants their guys,” said one scout.
So...no trades comin' down the pike then? :lol

[MarHill]

This is so true. Outside the Big Three and perhaps Mason and Hill, the Spurs literally have no parts to trade. They don't even have a first rounder to trade or expiring contracts. Unless they want to sell low on Mahinmi, I don't see how they could make a trade this year even if they wanted to.

Oh and :td @ Harrington trade. Bad fit.

Probably so....but if the Spurs can stay competitve with this roster it will deepen the bench for later in the season and make the team that much better.

Also, I think TD should get consideration for MVP because of this!!!

:flag:

[duncan228]

Great, great piece. I miss Ludden so much. It's a thrill when he writes about us.

The article is filled with things to take, but I'll keep this closest.


Still, one thing has never changed within these Spurs. Only the strongest survive. Popovich and Duncan are forever building for that next title together, and you’re either with them or you aren’t. They’re connected emotionally and temperamentally, the respect and appreciation between the two unwavering even if the stubbornness of each sometimes grates on the other.



“They communicate at a level that very few mates ever do,” Spurs GM RC Buford said, “and it’s often communication that doesn’t have to be spoken.”

The heart and soul of this team has always been chemistry as much as talent, and Pop and Duncan's relationship has been the foundation through these Championship years.

[mystargtr34]

This is so true. Outside the Big Three and perhaps Mason and Hill, the Spurs literally have no parts to trade. They don't even have a first rounder to trade or expiring contracts. Unless they want to sell low on Mahinmi, I don't see how they could make a trade this year even if they wanted to.

Oh and :td @ Harrington trade. Bad fit.

You really think so? Hes been around 38% from 3 the last couple of years - He can score off the dribble and is atheltic. Hes pretty young still. Obviously the FO would have their own judgements on whether he could play on a contender and live being a role player given his past, thats things we cant really answer.

He could give the Spurs 5 legitimate scoring options.

[Ocotillo]

Hmmm, I wonder if he wrote this while waiting for his luggage at an airport?

[Obstructed_View]

This is so true. Outside the Big Three and perhaps Mason and Hill, the Spurs literally have no parts to trade. They don't even have a first rounder to trade or expiring contracts. Unless they want to sell low on Mahinmi, I don't see how they could make a trade this year even if they wanted to.

Oh and :td @ Harrington trade. Bad fit.

Conversely, there really isn't anyone that the Spurs could trade for that would provide some of those roles as well as the guys that are here. Some of the guys on this team seem terrible when they aren't playing well and the team isn't playing well together. It's funny how good guys like Oberto and Vaughn can be when everything's clicking and they're contributing.

[m33p0]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkZhf0fJxUCOBQmSqteP.rM5nYcB?slug=jy-spurs111908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

For the Spurs, it’s just like old times
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
3 hours, 22 minutes ago
Buzz Up
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San Antonio Spurs' Tim Duncan …
AP - Nov 18, 1:23 am EST
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Tony Parker limped down the tunnel that Friday night, clinging to the shoulder of a trainer, and even Gregg Popovich had to wonder. Manu Ginobili had already spent five games in a sports coat and now Parker was certain to need his own. Injuries come and go. Every coach understands that. But somewhere along the way in those first 10 days of the season, Popovich’s San Antonio Spurs had also seemed to lose some of their soul.

The Spurs won four championships in nine seasons, including three in the past six, because they defended as well as anyone in the NBA. Now, they weren’t even doing that. Popovich questioned whether his players had taken their defense for granted. Or whether they had just stopped listening to him altogether.

“Have I been here too long?” Popovich wondered.

Nearly two weeks later, the question seems to have answered itself. The Spurs have won their past three games to nudge their record to the break-even mark. They’re treading water, or, as Popovich says, “hanging on” until Ginobili and Parker return. All but three of their 10 games have hinged on a single possession, and aside from a stirring comeback victory over the Houston Rockets, they really haven’t beaten anyone of merit. Up next are the Denver Nuggets and Utah Jazz, both of whom should prove considerably more challenging. Their margin of error remains razor-thin.

But the Spurs are defending once again, and that says something not only about from where they’ve come, but also where they might be headed. And why it might be wise to hold off shoveling another layer of dirt on them. They’re old and they’re missing Parker and Ginobili, but they still have Tim Duncan and they still have their coach, and that should count for something.


As New York Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni said a week ago, “You know Popovich and Duncan will eventually figure it out.”

Patience has been forced upon Popovich and Duncan this fall, a virtue neither has had much use for in recent years. Together, they are trying to prop the Spurs’ championship window from closing shut, molding a roster that is long on years at some positions and short on experience at others. They will wait on Ginobili and Parker for at least another couple weeks, trying to claw out as many wins in the meantime while hastening the development of their younger players.

“The whole damn equation has changed,” Popovich said. “It’s a maxi-transition and we were going to do it on a mini basis.”

During these unusual times, the Spurs have leaned on their two constants: defense and Duncan. Even before Parker sprained his left ankle, the Spurs had slipped defensively, plummeting to the bottom of the league in most major categories. Popovich worried that his well-worn pound-the-rock message had gone stale. But the more he and his staff looked at the film, the more they realized that it was the coaches who had changed rather than the effort of their players. Over the summer, the staff had implemented a few wrinkles to the team’s system, which included varying how they defended the pick-and-roll.

“Creative, intelligent coaching moves,” Popovich said with his trademark sarcasm, “that turned out to be dog doo-doo.”

The Spurs have won over the years because they do the ordinary doo-doo extraordinarily, and after a loss to the Miami Heat dropped the record to 1-4, Popovich returned to stressing the tenants of the team’s defense: Keep ball-handlers out of the middle of the lane; funnel them baseline into the arms of their shot-blockers; and don’t give up open 3-pointers from the corners. In the five games since, the Spurs have yielded 80, 82, 75, 88 and 83 points.

“That’s given us a chance to win,” Popovich said.

So has Duncan. He returned this fall leaner and stronger, having spent part of the summer throwing tractor tires as part of a new training program developed by the team’s strength-and-conditioning staff. Opponents also have quickly learned that Duncan’s shooting stroke, in addition to his tread chucking, looks as smooth as ever.

Over the years, Duncan had become increasingly hesitant about firing from distance, figuring the team had better shooters who could do that. Popovich convinced him such indecision was creating too many end-of-the-clock situations for his teammates. More and more, he’s now committing to shooting the open jumper. So far this season, he’s averaged 23.9 points on 56.2 percent shooting, the latter of which would be the highest of his career.


LOS ANGELES - NOVEMBER 17: He…
Getty Images - Nov 18, 12:56 am EST
Duncan also has realized another benefit from diversifying his game. “It lessens the pounding I take,” he said.

Popovich frets about taxing Duncan too much, and not just because he’s averaging nearly four minutes per game more than he’d averaged the previous four seasons. For much of the past six seasons, the Spurs have closed games with the same core around Duncan: Parker at the point and Ginobili and Bruce Bowen on the wings. Even Fabricio Oberto had become something of a mainstay at center. These days, Duncan often takes the floor with a collection of youngsters and journeymen surrounding him.

George Hill, the rookie who’s starting in place of Parker, has the potential to be “one of the best defenders to come into the league at his position,” Popovich thinks. But he’s also a novice at the point and is limited offensively. Roger Mason, the sharpshooter from Washington, has turned out to be a nice free-agent pickup, but he, too, lacks experience with the Spurs. Bowen started every game he’s played for the Spurs for more than seven seasons, but he’s now coming off the bench because the team needs more scoring with Ginobili and Parker out.

“I don’t think there’s a team in this league that’s going to feel sorry for us,” Duncan said. “Everybody’s got to deal with it. Everybody’s got to fight through it. We’ll find our way.”


Sacramento Kings center Brad M…
AP - Nov 17, 12:45 am EST
Duncan has played the role of veteran guide. He’s directed Hill and Mason on the floor and in huddles, and has had to learn to live with their mistakes. On the opening possession of a recent game against the Los Angeles Clippers, Duncan motioned Hill toward Michael Finley. Instead, Hill fired the ball back at Duncan, nearly clipping him in the chin.

Duncan, too, has surprised some of his new teammates. “I didn’t know he had so much personality,” Mason said.

Popovich has praised Duncan for his patience and empathy, but he’s had to show the same. Said Ginobili: “It’s been tough for Pop, too.”

Help should be on the way. Ginobili, who underwent surgery on his left ankle after re-injuring it during the Olympics, hasn’t had any setbacks and is now playing two-on-two. The Spurs don’t have a firm timeline for his return, but Ginobili and Popovich both remain cautiously optimistic he could be back in the lineup in two weeks, depending on the amount of practice time afforded the team. Parker also is progressing and could return near the end of the first week of December.

The Spurs have trolled the trade market, inquiring about Golden State Warriors forward Al Harrington, but there are concerns about Harrington’s back, as well as the fact that he can opt out of his contract at the end of the season. And aside from their three stars, the Spurs have filled their roster with role players in the truest sense. “No one wants their guys,” said one scout.

Father Time continues to gain on the Spurs, and this transition likely would have been smoother were it not for some bad luck and a bad decision or two. Brazilian forward Tiago Splitter, the team’s 2007 first-round pick, elected to remain in Europe this season because the U.S. dollar had grown so weak. Another former pick, Argentine forward Luis Scola, continues to thrive in Houston. All the reasons the Spurs gave for trading Scola now ring hollow. Popovich, too, has admitted he might have been too quick to cast Beno Udrih aside.

Still, one thing has never changed within these Spurs. Only the strongest survive. Popovich and Duncan are forever building for that next title together, and you’re either with them or you aren’t. They’re connected emotionally and temperamentally, the respect and appreciation between the two unwavering even if the stubbornness of each sometimes grates on the other.

This week, someone asked Popovich why he grew out his beard. “Because I wanted to go from a 9,” he deadpanned, “to a 10.” In truth, Popovich let it go untrimmed all summer after Duncan goaded him into it.

“They communicate at a level that very few mates ever do,” Spurs GM RC Buford said, “and it’s often communication that doesn’t have to be spoken.”

So, for two more weeks, at least, Duncan and Popovich will try to prop up the Spurs, one directing from the sideline, the other from the court. Maybe time has already caught them. Even with Ginobili and Parker, the Spurs will have trouble measuring up to the talent and depth of the Los Angeles Lakers. But they’ll win or they won’t, as Popovich likes to say. This much is true: They’re defending again and they haven’t stopped working. The rest of the league hasn’t exhaled just yet.

[m33p0]

arg... been posted

[Allanon]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110114

[Obstructed_View]

You really think so? Hes been around 38% from 3 the last couple of years - He can score off the dribble and is atheltic. Hes pretty young still. Obviously the FO would have their own judgements on whether he could play on a contender and live being a role player given his past, thats things we cant really answer.

He could give the Spurs 5 legitimate scoring options.

The Spurs don't need another guy jacking up threes. They damn sure don't need anyone else trying to shoot off the dribble because it bogs the whole team down, and he's got chronic back problems so his age becomes a complete non factor. Throw in the fact that he's a malcontent for good measure and re-evaluate what you'd be willing to give up for him, even if GS would take it.

[SenorSpur]

Nearly two weeks later, the question seems to have answered itself. The Spurs have won their past three games to nudge their record to the break-even mark. They’re treading water, or, as Popovich says, “hanging on” until Ginobili and Parker return. All but three of their 10 games have hinged on a single possession, and aside from a stirring comeback victory over the Houston Rockets, they really haven’t beaten anyone of merit. Up next are the Denver Nuggets and Utah Jazz, both of whom should prove considerably more challenging. Their margin of error remains razor-thin.


Great article. Full of delicious content. I do miss Ludden.

One thing that stood out to me was the Spurs' obvious "slim margin for error". Which places special emphasis on the need to defend and rebound. Many here (including myself) have been harping on the diminished rebounding from the bigs. Thankfully, Duncan is coming around, but he needs help. The Spurs bigs simply have to do a better job of keeping opponents off the offensive glass. Getting stops is futile if the team repeatedly gives up 2nd chance points.

[Manufan909]

Conversely, there really isn't anyone that the Spurs could trade for that would provide some of those roles as well as the guys that are here. Some of the guys on this team seem terrible when they aren't playing well and the team isn't playing well together. It's funny how good guys like Oberto and Vaughn can be when everything's clicking and they're contributing.

Come on, we all know Nellie would love the Red Rocket!!!:king But seriously, that stood out for me too.

[duncan228]

Full of delicious content.

Nice way to phrase it. I had to read it a couple of times to get my fill of Ludden's Spurs writing.

[m33p0]

one thing to keep in mind, the years that the spurs won the title, they didn't trade during the season.

[timvp]

one thing to keep in mind, the years that the spurs won the title, they didn't trade during the season.Nazr Mohammed would like a word with you. So would Melvin Ely.

[urunobili]

damn i miss Ludden SO MUCH... i would have welcomed Harrington...

[Obstructed_View]

Nazr Mohammed would like a word with you. So would Melvin Ely.

I'll go along with Nazr, but Eric Williams wasn't exactly contributing. ;) You are correct, though.

[Obstructed_View]

Come on, we all know Nellie would love the Red Rocket!!!:king But seriously, that stood out for me too.

Nellie might actually like him; he's a good shooter, he can play some defense and he's a pretty damn good ball handler for a guy his size. I wouldn't trade Matt Bonner for Harrington, though. No freaking way.

[Russ]

Unless they want to sell low on Mahinmi, I don't see how they could make a trade this year even if they wanted to.

I think he's one of the players nobody wants. (Neither the other drafting NBA teams in '05, nor the French national team has ever shown Mahinmi the respect the Spurs did in that one First Round Moment.)

It's been three years -- Bynum and Batum have stepped up younger and more ready.

Meanwhile, the Spurs seem more afraid of putting Mahinmi on the big stage than McCain was of putting Palin in front of Dan Rather.

Hope I'm wrong of course. :)

[milkyway21]

Duncan has played the role of veteran guide. He’s directed Hill and Mason on the floor and in huddles, and has had to learn to live with their mistakes. On the opening possession of a recent game against the Los Angeles Clippers, Duncan motioned Hill toward Michael Finley. Instead, Hill fired the ball back at Duncan, nearly clipping him in the chin.

Duncan and Popovich will try to prop up the Spurs, one directing from the sideline, the other from the court. ...plus some DVD runs before game time for Hill & Mason? :D

and TD logging-in 40 minutes since then?

wow that's a lot of load on Duncan's shoulders than I imagined.

I think JV gave some of his off-game minutes on Hill too.

[m33p0]

Nazr Mohammed would like a word with you. So would Melvin Ely.
like the Spurs used Ely :rolleyes
thought Nazr was acquired during the off-season?

[mystargtr34]

The Spurs don't need another guy jacking up threes. They damn sure don't need anyone else trying to shoot off the dribble because it bogs the whole team down, and he's got chronic back problems so his age becomes a complete non factor. Throw in the fact that he's a malcontent for good measure and re-evaluate what you'd be willing to give up for him, even if GS would take it.

What do you think Bonner and Tolliver are out there to do? Spread the floor. Shoot threes. Al Harrington fits into the Robert Horry/Matt Bonner mold - hes 6'9" and hes long and can shoot the 3 ball. His contract also expires at the end of the year, so its not like their locked into anything for the future if he doesnt pan out.

And so because he has had back issues, it doesnt matter that hes actually just entering his prime now, and that hes young and athletic.

Hes played 81, 78 and 76 games the last three seasons, so it doesnt look like its bothering him too much for a chronic back problem.

Would you rather watch Kurt Thomas get out rebounded by point guards and defenders sag right off Oberto and clog up driving lanes.

Maybe the Spurs should re-evaluate it since the FO is the one that tried to trade for him - not me.

[mystargtr34]

Nellie might actually like him; he's a good shooter, he can play some defense and he's a pretty damn good ball handler for a guy his size. I wouldn't trade Matt Bonner for Harrington, though. No freaking way.

:lol

[duncan228]

Duncan...spent part of the summer throwing tractor tires...

Anyone have an idea of what those tires weigh?

[Blackjack]

Over the summer, the staff had implemented a few wrinkles to the team’s system, which included varying how they defended the pick-and-roll.

“Creative, intelligent coaching moves,” Popovich said with his trademark sarcasm, “that turned out to be dog doo-doo.” (You've got to love Pop:lmao)

I remember coach Brown making reference to how Boston played defense last year and that there were some aspects they wanted to integrate into their system, so that really stuck out to me. But after reading Ludden and the mea culpa Pop had in his interview prior to tonights game? I guess, not so much.:lol

On a positive note, at least McDonald and Monroe's source has given them some good inside information we should be hearing about real soon. :bang

COME HOME LUDDEN!!!

[Fernando TD21]

Cool article.



Anyone have an idea of what those tires weigh?
That would depend on the type of tractor, but was that part really serious? It's weird to imagine Duncan throwing big tires around. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

What do you think Bonner and Tolliver are out there to do? Spread the floor. Shoot threes.
So are Finley, Mason, Udoka, Manu-when-he-gets-back, and apparently George Hill. Do we really need another outside shooter? Really?


His contract also expires at the end of the year, so its not like their locked into anything for the future if he doesnt pan out.
Other than what they had to give up to get him, they aren't out anything, they can just lose it for nothing.


And so because he has had back issues, it doesnt matter that hes actually just entering his prime now, and that hes young and athletic.
I agree. Back issues don't discriminate.


Hes played 81, 78 and 76 games the last three seasons, so it doesnt look like its bothering him too much for a chronic back problem.
Except that he's already on pace to play fewer than that since he's missed the last six in a row.


Would you rather watch Kurt Thomas get out rebounded by point guards and defenders sag right off Oberto and clog up driving lanes.
I'm not convinced that either of them is in game shape, but compare their stats to Harrington's the last two weeks. Yep, hard to put up numbers from the bench.


Maybe the Spurs should re-evaluate it since the FO is the one that tried to trade for him - not me.
Don't puss out on me now. The Spurs obviously thought the Warriors were asking too much for him. You're the one that wants him here. What are you willing to give up? It's gonna have to be something of value.

[duncan228]

That would depend on the type of tractor, but was that part really serious? It's weird to imagine Duncan throwing big tires around. :lol

I think it is serious, and I guess there's lots of sizes. I'm trying to get an idea of the weight that would be appropriate for that kind of training.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol

Again, let's hear your trade scenario. Bonner's playing good team ball right now and he's contributing. He also knows the defense.

[jag]

"Popovich, too, has admitted he might have been too quick to cast Beno Udrih aside."



...ya


I wish Beno weren't such a bitch...he'd be nice to have around.

[T Park]

Pop said that after Beno lit em up for 21.

I still have zero qualms on letting Beno Udrih go, he didn't thrive in a pressure, latina filled enviroment.

Time to move on.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop was never going to give Beno what he thought was a fair chance, and Beno was never going to do anything up to Pop's standards, so it's too bad the relationship had to linger as long as it did. The Spurs shouldn't have picked up his option.

[Manufan909]

Nellie might actually like him; he's a good shooter, he can play some defense and he's a pretty damn good ball handler for a guy his size. I wouldn't trade Matt Bonner for Harrington, though. No freaking way.

Praise for Matt???:wow
I honestly don't know much about Al, is he really,a bad teammate, defender, and chucker? Not saying you're wrong, but doesn't he have qualities that would make it a profitable trade for the Spurs? He sounds like a decent 5th option. But if his back problems have resurfaced so recently, stay away from him like FOTC does sick monkeys.:lol

[Slomo]

http://www.cikava.com/gallery/albums/Emoticons/Miss_ludden.jpg

[TJastal]

Harrington? YGTBFKM.

The spurs don't need yet another 6'10 guy who loves to sit on the perimeter and chuck up 3's whenever they see the ball. And then play lazy crapshit defense. At least the two guys we have who fit that mold (Bonner and Tolliver) put some kind of effort into their defense.


Spurs need a guy who is going to get his fucking nose in there and mix it up under the basket, get offensive rebounds, putbacks, and draw fouls in the process. Take charges and hit the 10-15 jumpshot with consistency. Kurt Thomas was supposed to that type of guy but its obvious he has too much mileage under his belt now.

I'd love to get Azubuike and Biedrins from GS, but it would take a major trade (ie Tony Parker) to get it done.

[urunobili]

http://www.cikava.com/gallery/albums/Emoticons/Miss_ludden.jpg

:tu :depressed

[mystargtr34]

Again, let's hear your trade scenario. Bonner's playing good team ball right now and he's contributing. He also knows the defense.

If Bonner can do this for 20 games fairly consistently then maybe ill be inclined to re-consider - but hes been here for 2 years and he just hasnt done a damn thing until the last couple games. I want him to succeed more than anyone, and ill be the first to admit hes been excellent this season - but Harrington is a proven scorer in this league.

Hes more athletic than Bonner, he can score off the dribble, and in the last 3 seasons, hes been a better 3 point shooter than Matt Bonner - which is suppose to be Bonner's forte. I realise he hasnt got the cleanest reputation in terms of being a winner or team player, but with one year left on his contract, its not like the Spurs are stuck with him if things dont pan out. The potential reward is much much bigger than the opposite.

As for my proposal, well if Bonner continues to play well, like you said earlier in this thread i think Nellie would take a chance on a big man who can spread the floor and shoot the long ball - obviously they would want more, but like Ludden said in his article the Spurs dont really have anything other teams want outside of the big 3.

[TJastal]

If Bonner can do this for 20 games fairly consistently then maybe ill be inclined to re-consider - but hes been here for 2 years and he just hasnt done a damn thing until the last couple games. I want him to succeed more than anyone, and ill be the first to admit hes been excellent this season - but Harrington is a proven scorer in this league.

Hes more athletic than Bonner, he can score off the dribble, and in the last 3 seasons, hes been a better 3 point shooter than Matt Bonner - which is suppose to be Bonner's forte. I realise he hasnt got the cleanest reputation in terms of being a winner or team player, but with one year left on his contract, its not like the Spurs are stuck with him if things dont pan out. The potential reward is much much bigger than the opposite.

As for my proposal, well if Bonner continues to play well, like you said earlier in this thread i think Nellie would take a chance on a big man who can spread the floor and shoot the long ball - obviously they would want more, but like Ludden said in his article the Spurs dont really have anything other teams want outside of the big 3.

He's in a contract year, so maybe he'd actually play some defense and stick his nose into the paint and scrap for rebounds and make hustle plays. Who knows.

I think Tolliver can be just as athletic as Harrington, problem is Popovich won't give him minutes. I like Bonner, but some situations call for a more athletic player, such as last night's Nuggets game for instance, and Popovich just doesn't get it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'd been lulled into an acceptance of the terrible Spurs beat-writing we now have to put up with, and I'd forgotten how good Ludden can be. Where is he now?

As for the team, I agree with the consensus - no-one wants our dross, so we just have to grit our teeth and bear with the team. We called for youth, at least we've got some to root for now, and we'll have more next year.

[mrspurs]

Wise words. Alot of mishaps and misfortunes. Ill tell ya when it started. When Manu decided to play for his country while being hurt. Manu not only put himself in harms way. But now he's added more minutes Timmy has to play. He completely changed this season. He changed our priority's. Maybe he thought if he got hurt it would only effect himself and his countrymen. But before he even started playing in China, I knew if he got hurt,(and of course he would, he was already limping), he would also make TPs and Duncans careers shorter. Hopefully when Manu comes back he will understand just how bad a mistake it was to play while being hurt. Or maybe Manu cant wait to get back on the court and get ready for after the season is over. How far are the World Championships from now? I bet Manu knows. And it was something TP mentioned as well when he got hurt. (pop might not let me play for the french). Until Manu comes back and leads us to another NBA championship. He is not forgiven. If we dont get another chance to at least win it all with Manu on this roster. At least yall all know when it started.

[urunobili]

Wise words. Alot of mishaps and misfortunes. Ill tell ya when it started. When Manu decided to play for his country while being hurt. Manu not only put himself in harms way. But now he's added more minutes Timmy has to play. He completely changed this season. He changed our priority's. Maybe he thought if he got hurt it would only effect himself and his countrymen. But before he even started playing in China, I knew if he got hurt,(and of course he would, he was already limping), he would also make TPs and Duncans careers shorter. Hopefully when Manu comes back he will understand just how bad a mistake it was to play while being hurt. Or maybe Manu cant wait to get back on the court and get ready for after the season is over. How far are the World Championships from now? I bet Manu knows. And it was something TP mentioned as well when he got hurt. (pop might not let me play for the french). Until Manu comes back and leads us to another NBA championship. He is not forgiven. If we dont get another chance to at least win it all with Manu on this roster. At least yall all know when it started.

this is heavy shit... even ducks fall short compared to your hate for Manu... get real :wakeup

[urunobili]

Where is he now? (Ludden)

NBA Editor Yahoo

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/expertsarchive?author=Johnny+Ludden

[1Parker1]

How did Ludden manage to find so many quotes from Pop and the SPurs? And their own beatwriters recycle quotes?

[fyatuk]

I think it is serious, and I guess there's lots of sizes. I'm trying to get an idea of the weight that would be appropriate for that kind of training.

Probably serious. It is a type of crossfit workout. He was probably flipping it and not throwing it though.

They weigh several hundred pounds. Duncan should probably have been using one that weighed more than 600.

[mrspurs]

this is heavy shit... even ducks fall short compared to your hate for Manu... get real :wakeup

Never said I hated Manu. Like Pop says, Id rather have Manu in my foxhole then anyone else. I totally agree with Pop on that statement. Noone plays with the fire Manu plays with. Hes the man who makes this team a contender, and is the man who changes things in game situations.

[urunobili]

Never said I hated Manu. Like Pop says, Id rather have Manu in my foxhole then anyone else. I totally agree with Pop on that statement. Noone plays with the fire Manu plays with. Hes the man who makes this team a contender, and is the man who changes things in game situations.

It's not Manu's fault that other players do not start them up like he does... making him responsible for your future failure predictions u made goes beyond lame... you definitively don't need to start a "he was authorized to play" conclusion kind of discussion...

[duncan228]

Probably serious. It is a type of crossfit workout. He was probably flipping it and not throwing it though.

They weigh several hundred pounds. Duncan should probably have been using one that weighed more than 600.

:wow

Thanks for the info.

[fyatuk]

:wow

Thanks for the info.

If he was doing what I think he was doing, then 600 would be about right for Tony Parker according to what I've read. Not sure what the scale up for Tim would be.

The workout basically entails a tire lying on it's side. You pick up one side, lift that side until the tires upright, then push it over and do it again.

All I know from first hand information is the last time I was around a true tractor tire (back when I was like 8 years old), I could lift any part of it.

[duncan228]

The workout basically entails a tire lying on it's side. You pick up one side, lift that side until the tires upright, then push it over and do it again.


So 'throwing' isn't the right word? I don't know anything about this, I appreciate your info.

[Tully365]

George Hill, the rookie who’s starting in place of Parker, has the potential to be “one of the best defenders to come into the league at his position,” Popovich thinks.

[polandprzem]

ZaxuNCoo_GI

[duncan228]

Thanks polandprzem. :)

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Duncan, too, has surprised some of his new teammates. “I didn’t know he had so much personality,” Mason said.


I'm glad to see Mason is fitting right in with the Spurs' sardonic, biting, deadpan style of communications.

[fyatuk]

So 'throwing' isn't the right word? I don't know anything about this, I appreciate your info.

I don't really know much either. I had heard of it before, but I'm not much of an excercise person other than occassionally lifting weight. I just did some research on it this morning after the article was posted.

[duncan228]

I just did some research on it this morning after the article was posted.

Nice to know I'm not the only one that got curious about it.

[fyatuk]

Nice to know I'm not the only one that got curious about it.

Happens to me a lot. I'm the master of trivia among my friends. They always call me whenever they have a weird question they can't find the answer to. Half the time I know it, most of the rest I can find the answer in 5 minutes on the 'net (I'm really good at websearching apparently).

A lot of times I'll read something and then spend 3 hours researching some obscur part of it that interested me.

[duncan228]

Happens to me a lot. I'm the master of trivia among my friends. They always call me whenever they have a weird question they can't find the answer to. Half the time I know it, most of the rest I can find the answer in 5 minutes on the 'net (I'm really good at websearching apparently).

A lot of times I'll read something and then spend 3 hours researching some obscur part of it that interested me.

I could say the same things, as long as we add Duncan's name to the mastering. It's things related to him that I hold the record for among my friends. :lol