Just how good is this team?

[vy65]

So this may be too close to the romp of the Jazz, with two exceptional performances by George Hill and Roger Mason, but just how good is this team? Albeit this is purely a matter of speculation, but maybe we should start thinking about this given the pending arrival of Manu (within 1 week) and Tony shortly thereafter.

Manu and Tony will obviously eat a lot of Hill's and Mason's minutes, but I don't think that it's a stretch to believe that these two will continue to give us some output. And, given one of our biggest problems last year was the 3-5 minute scoring drought/lack of a dependable scorer -- I think Hill and Mason go a long way to curing that problem.

But do we have enough to beat the Lakers? Will we have enough scoring to do the trick? And what do we need from our bigs in order to match up with Bynum and Gasol? Does anyone here really think that Mahimi will tilt the scales in our favor over the Lakers?

I think this team is pretty fucking good -- I just don't know if its good enough to beat the Lakers. Thoughts?

[Fernando TD21]

I believe that when Manu and Parker get back, the Spurs will be good enough to beat any other team.:lobt2:

[tlongII]

Not very.

[SpursDynasty]

We may not be the best, but we're not any worse than any of the rest of the Western Conference. Most of the top teams have faced injuries, so the Lakers have been handed some games. The Lakers are still average, and are probably the worst NBA Finals contestant this decade.

[bigfan]

We still need some bigs or have the ones we have (not counting TD of course) step up to the plate (KT, Ian, Tolliver). Wish we would have traded for Biedrins.

[timvp]

Looking good but long way to go. Staying healthy will be the number one concern, moreso than the Lakers or Celtics. If Hill and Mason (and Finley, for that matter) can keep playing well when their roles are reduced and Mahinmi can provide athleticism up front, this will be a very quality team.

The Lakers and Celtics will have to remain the favorites but at their best, this Spurs team is going to be difficult to eliminate in the playoffs.

That said, the Spurs aren't exactly the deepest team so an untimely injury or slump would likely lead to their demise ... much like last season.

[LA24]

We may not be the best, but we're not any worse than any of the rest of the Western Conference. Most of the top teams have faced injuries, so the Lakers have been handed some games. The Lakers are still average, and are probably the worst NBA Finals contestant this decade.

I think the Cavs and the Nets were....didn't they both get swept in the finals ?

[sexinthatsx]

Roger Mason should definately start at SG when Tony and Ginobili come back, and Hill will be our backup PG. The thing is, if this is how scary our team looks like just imagine our bench when TP and Manu come back to 100%. We will school the lakers solely on basis that roger mason is like the lakers vujacic with the exception that roger mason can create his own shot. On top of that, we have a bonafide defensive PG in George Hill who kind of reminds of rajon rondo except with more points and ft's.

[xtremesteven33]

Fisher/Farmar Parker/Hill
Bryant/Vujacic Ginobili/Mason
Radmonovic/Odom Bowen/Finley
Gasol/Odom Duncan/Oberto
Bynum/Gasol Mahinmi/Thomas


its a wash

[leemajors]

good enough to beat down another injured team while being white hot from 3. nice perfomances by mason and hill though.

[xtremesteven33]

If the Lakers and Spurs meet in the playoffs that would be an encounter of epic proportions.

if it were possible it would go to 9 games...haha

[Biggems]

I think for this early in the season and considering we are missing manu, tony, and ian.....we are doing nicely. we have only been blown out in a couple of games. in those games, we died by the 3 pt shot.....

we had an impressive come from behind win against the rockets....down 14 in the 4th and still won.....this coming just one game after we blew a double digit lead against the bucks.

we lost to portland by 1 pt....but we had a great look on the final shot that just didnt fall. we were close against PHX, but poor shot selection in the final minute killed us.

NEW ADDITION has been playing very well........Mason, Hill, and Tolliver. Acorn has a sweet shot, and seems to be a nice project for the end of the bench. These guys are getting tons of minutes and they are growing with each game. It will definitely pay big dividends once Manu, TP, and Ian get in there.

Finley has found the fountain of youth and is playing lights out. Bonner is actually playing rather well, in fact, I must give him mad props for how he has played in the last several games. I have definitely been anti-Bonner since near the end of last season, but he is earning my fanship back slowly. Duncan is playing at an MVP level. Bowen is playing some very good D. Vaughn would be better if he didnt shoot it so much. Thomas blows this year. Oberto is doing ok, nothing to write home about. Udoka gets on my nerves. His shot is so inconsistent, he needs more Chip in his life. He can't make a layup to save his life.

The fact that this team is hanging in there with all the adversity it has faced so far, does not bode well for the rest of the West. I am sure the Lakers will run away with the top seed. However, do not count out the Spurs when it comes to the 2-4 seeds. I feel they have as good a shot as any to get any of the 3 remaining top seeds.

[TheMadHatter]

not good enough to beat the Lakers, but extremely fun to watch I must say.

[tav1]

Okay, I'll take the somewhat pessimistic view. I agree that adding Mahinmi, Manu and Parker make them really good, but I still think the Spurs are a decent player away. I hope the front office stays aggressive. Bonner has never played so well...it might be a sell high situation. With a true wing that can score on more than jumpers, I think the Spurs could beat the Lakers. Otherwise, it will be tough.

[xtremesteven33]

Oberto,Thomas and Udoka are just getting me so fustrated.

Oberto not as much cause he makes plays at times that have me jumping out my seat but Thomas and Udoka make some bonehead plays and TO's that really get me worried about thier role in the team.

Udoka the most. Hes become the new bonner it seems like haha

[td4mvp21]

not good enough to beat the Lakers, but extremely fun to watch I must say.

Probably accurate. But I'm not sure about the fun to watch part :lol

[peskypesky]

Okay, I'll take the somewhat pessimistic view. I agree that adding Mahinmi, Manu and Parker make them really good, but I still think the Spurs are a decent player away. I hope the front office stays aggressive. Bonner has never played so well...it might be a sell high situation. With a true wing that can score on more than jumpers, I think the Spurs could beat the Lakers. Otherwise, it will be tough.

I agree with you on everything except one thing. I think we're fine at the wing now with the addition of Mason. I think we are SORELY in need of another big besides Duncan who can rebound and block shots. We don't need another post scorer, but we do need someone to help Tim defend and rebound.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this team is good enough to sweep the lakers 4-0

[cherylsteele]

not good enough to beat the Lakers, but extremely fun to watch I must say.
Hey....we aren't boring anymore!!

[homer]

We may not be the best, but we're not any worse than any of the rest of the Western Conference. Most of the top teams have faced injuries, so the Lakers have been handed some games. The Lakers are still average, and are probably the worst NBA Finals contestant this decade.

Besides Cleveland.:wow

[angelbelow]

this team is damn good. im hoping that kurt thomas' poor performance thus far is due to being out of shape or still injured. if he can get back to the old kurt, were going to be extremely hard to beat.

[raspsa]

Spurs need one of the other bigs aside from TD to perform consistently if they want to go deep into the playoffs...

[vy65]

Looking good but long way to go. Staying healthy will be the number one concern, moreso than the Lakers or Celtics. If Hill and Mason (and Finley, for that matter) can keep playing well when their roles are reduced and Mahinmi can provide athleticism up front, this will be a very quality team.

The Lakers and Celtics will have to remain the favorites but at their best, this Spurs team is going to be difficult to eliminate in the playoffs.

That said, the Spurs aren't exactly the deepest team so an untimely injury or slump would likely lead to their demise ... much like last season.

Coming off the injury bug, I assume (probably wrongfully) that we'll be healthy going forward. Obviously, we need our guys 100% if we're going to do anything. From a glass-half-full perspective, a 70 game season will be good for Manu (especially if his minutes are limited early on). As a side note, given that he had surgery, I remember some posts from the summer stating that his ankle might be stronger than before--but I don't know how true that is. Regardless, it can't hurt. My concern is Tony's ankle. That, and the 37 MPG Tim has been averaging.

But I can't help but get excited about this squad--especially the ability for us to remedy those long scoring droughts that plagued us last season. When they would happen, we'd dig ourselves in a hole that was damned tough to get out of. Hopefully going forward Mason and Hill will take care of that.

The more and more I think about it, I just don't know if there is a mobile big man that can be had who can help us with the inside-out game that Gasol-Bynum will confront us with. When Chicago played L.A. a week or two ago, Drew Gooden seemed to do a good job -- but his contract makes him cost-prohibitive. I wonder if Channing Frye might be of some use in this regard.

Another thing to think about is Tolliver--he's shown me flashes of Malik Rose -- a tenacity/hustling ethic that might, at the very least, pester some of these opposing big men. But, this all seems like a pipe-dream.

[tp2021]

Another thing to think about is Tolliver--he's shown me flashes of Malik Rose -- a tenacity/hustling ethic that might, at the very least, pester some of these opposing big men. But, this all seems like a pipe-dream.

At least your pipe dream is about a player we already have, as opposed to a player we have to trade Bonner+Vaughn for.

[baseline bum]

The team desperately needs frontcourt help. I'm ecstatic to see Bowen playing much better than he did in the first 5 games or so. I'm not so excited with what I'm seeing out of Kurt. He looks like he's aged 5 years in the offseason, and he looks incredibly slow and unathletic, even relative to last season. I can always hope Oberto plays over his head like the 2007 postseason, but that's a hell of a thing to depend on. Unless Mahinmi can come in and play well enough to be our consistent #2 big, I'd put the probability of getting through LA (not to mention Boston) low. TD, Manu, and TP could all have great series and beat LA with some aid from the bench, but without upgrading our bigs I wouldn't call it very probable. The team's starting to show some potential, but it's deeply flawed when Tim is the only bigman on the team that can be counted on.

[xtremesteven33]

The team desperately needs frontcourt help. I'm ecstatic to see Bowen playing much better than he did in the first 5 games or so. I'm not so excited with what I'm seeing out of Kurt. He looks like he's aged 5 years in the offseason, and he looks incredibly slow and unathletic, even relative to last season. I can always hope Oberto plays over his head like the 2007 postseason, but that's a hell of a thing to depend on. Unless Mahinmi can come in and play well enough to be our consistent #2 big, I'd put the probability of getting through LA (not to mention Boston) low. TD, Manu, and TP could all have great series and beat LA with some aid from the bench, but without upgrading our bigs I wouldn't call it very probable. The team's starting to show some potential, but it's deeply flawed when Tim is the only bigman on the team that can be counted on.



Im sure theyre very aware of the problem.

Something will be done.....you can bet on that

[xtremesteven33]

Alonzo Mourning
Dikembe Mutombo
Antonio Mcdyess

are all current big man FA's.....

Im pretty sure the spurs have considered adding one of them to the roster

[xellos88330]

I cannot say how good this team is because it is incomplete at the moment. All that I can say is that they are showing loads of potential.

I am hoping that when Manu, Tony, and Ian are in the rotations, they will destroy all the other teams. It looks like it could be a very real possibility.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Im sure theyre very aware of the problem.

Something will be done.....you can bet on that

Pop and everyone else are going to ask santa for an athletic big this christmas?

[Spork KIller]

Pathetic suck ass spurs...

The Jazz were without their best players in Williams, Boozer, Korver and Collins.

[Spork KIller]

Alonzo Mourning
Dikembe Mutombo
Antonio Mcdyess

are all current big man FA's.....

Im pretty sure the spurs have considered adding one of them to the roster :nope

[JamStone]

Even when Parker and Ginobili return, I don't think very good mostly because of the front court. I think they'll still continue to struggle against teams with a lot of front court talent and depth. But, with Parker and Ginobili still a very dangerous team that can win on any given night. In a seven game series, I think they still need help upfront. Duncan can not be the only quality big down low.

[z0sa]

Even when Parker and Ginobili return, I don't think very good mostly because of the front court. I think they'll still continue to struggle against teams with a lot of front court talent and depth. But, with Parker and Ginobili still a very dangerous team that can win on any given night. In a seven game series, I think they still need help upfront. Duncan can not be the only quality big down low.

Eh, I disagree. We won a championship in 07 without another quality big. The main problem is rebounding, which we've got the personnel to take care of. If Bonner continues getting big minutes, and KT shapes into form/Ian makes any sort of splash, we'll be solid upfront with a shooter without sacrificing (much) defense or boarding, then a defensive presence beside Tim. Ian has the physical gifts to be a very good component on D.

I mean, look at Phoenix series last PO - it was hard fought but really we rolled them, and they have Shaq AND Amare. Or how about the next series against NO? West and Chandler made us look bad at times, especially West, but when the chips were on the table, the Spurs were simply better, despite being overwhelmed upfront.

I actually don't even see the gist of your idea if you want me to truthful. It's a copout to say because we don't have another all-star capable big, we're not a very good team, when in actuality, a healthy spurs team from the beginning is the second best in the west right now, minimum.

[naico]

I think it's best for the team if we cut the rotation a bit, when TP and Manu return. So that the ones who contribute can keep doing that on regular level. If you take away alot of minutes from Mason, Hill that will hurt the team when the available amount of time is to be divided between the rest of the bench.

I'd prefere an nine man rotation with:

TD
Parker
Manu
Mason
Hill
Finley
Mahinmi
Bowen
Bonner

Oberto, Tolliver, Vaughn, Udoka, Ahearn, Thomas fight for the rest of the minutes unless when of them can knock off another player from the main rotation (Bonner, Mahinmi..)

[TJastal]

I think it's best for the team if we cut the rotation a bit, when TP and Manu return. So that the ones who contribute can keep doing that on regular level. If you take away alot of minutes from Mason, Hill that will hurt the team when the available amount of time is to be divided between the rest of the bench.

I'd prefere an nine man rotation with:

TD
Parker
Manu
Mason
Hill
Finley
Mahinmi
Bowen
Bonner

Oberto, Tolliver, Vaughn, Udoka, Ahearn, Thomas fight for the rest of the minutes unless when of them can knock off another player from the main rotation (Bonner, Mahinmi..)

lol ... we haven't even seen Mahinmi play 1 minute yet, and you've got him pencilled in as a starter is appears. No fucking way does he instantly become a starter, it will still be (unfortunately) Oberto or Thomas as the starters alongside Duncan for a good chunk of the year

[JamStone]

Eh, I disagree. We won a championship in 07 without another quality big. The main problem is rebounding, which we've got the personnel to take care of. If Bonner continues getting big minutes, and KT shapes into form/Ian makes any sort of splash, we'll be solid upfront with a shooter without sacrificing (much) defense or boarding, then a defensive presence beside Tim. Ian has the physical gifts to be a very good component on D.

I mean, look at Phoenix series last PO - it was hard fought but really we rolled them, and they have Shaq AND Amare. Or how about the next series against NO? West and Chandler made us look bad at times, especially West, but when the chips were on the table, the Spurs were simply better, despite being overwhelmed upfront.

I actually don't even see the gist of your idea if you want me to truthful. It's a copout to say because we don't have another all-star capable big, we're not a very good team, when in actuality, a healthy spurs team from the beginning is the second best in the west right now, minimum.

I think the teams in the Western Conference this year are different than two years ago with their frontcourts. I think Phoenix would be a tougher problem this year than last year because they utilize Shaq more. I think New Orleans will be a tougher match-up for the Spurs this year as they got that year experience in the playoffs. The Lakers already beat the Spurs in a playoff series without Andrew Bynum. Heck, I think the Spurs could struggle against Denver in a playoff series because of Nene.

Like I said, the Spurs are still dangerous. Parker, Ginobili or Duncan could each drop a 40 point game if one of them got hot. But, I think in a seven game series, that front court will hurt the Spurs.

That's my opinion.

[Anti.Hero]

Won't get far on only jumpers.

Spurs are still a good 2nd big away from having a good shot at winning WCF.

[manufor3]

We may not be the best, but we're not any worse than any of the rest of the Western Conference. Most of the top teams have faced injuries, so the Lakers have been handed some games. The Lakers are still average, and are probably the worst NBA Finals contestant this decade.

cleveland?

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

Being in Canada I get to watch zero games, but I flow basically the team on a daily basis and I figured it was time to chime in. All the injuries that have happened are a blessing. We have given the chance to a lot of players that would not have had the playing time normally to get confident and show what they can do. This can only help in the long run. Also let me add that I was never one to be OH THE SEASON IS OVER type crap when Parker got hurt, but how the team has done was beyond what I thought was going to happen. I figured they would have a slight losing record and win here and there but this team is hot!!!!

[Biggems]

Pathetic suck ass spurs...

The Jazz were without their best players in Williams, Boozer, Korver and Collins.

nice sig.....i can definitely feel your hostility.....btw....the Spurs have been fuckin the Suns, prison style, for the last 6 years. I wonder if Nash, Stoudamire, Bell, Marion, and D'Antoni have nightmares about SA?

btw, the way you feel about us is the way I felt about the Jazz when they had the two dirtiest bastards to ever play the game.....Stockton and Malone, or even the Showtime Lakers.....

[GSH]

With Tony and Manu back (hopefully 100%) the team looks pretty damned good. But it's not going to be enough without someone in the middle to help Duncan. Fab and Kurt Thomas aren't getting it done. It will be interesting to see what Mahinmi will actually bring to the team when he comes back.

[HarlemHeat37]

we're the 2nd best team in the West when we add Parker and Ginobili, which is what I predicted at the beginning of the season..

we need help at SF..I'd like to see some kind of a push for Azubuike, since he's now expandable with the high amount of swingmen on the Warriors roster at the moment..

the big man is obviously important, but it's being exaggerated here..while we will struggle vs. other teams with big men(actually, it's pretty much only the Lakers that can give us size problems), we have the best backcourt in the NBA with Tony-Manu-Mason-Hill-Finley..that's a huge mismatch for our team, and we can easily exploit other teams..

if Mahinmi is good enough to take the starting C job, we're as good as anybody IMO..but that will be tough, since he's unproven..

just looking at other teams though..

Lakers have Bynum-Gasol..this is the main competition..Bynum doesn't have much of an offensive game, but he's been dominant defensively and on the boards, so Duncan will need support here..at least Bonner would be able to take one of them out of the paint though, so that's some kind of a positive..

NO has West and Chandler..this is a problem defensively, since we can't guard West unless Duncan is on him, but then Chandler is getting alley-oops all day..on the other hand, focusing entirely on CP3 and Peja like we did at the end of the series is huge here, since that would be a big hit to West and Chandler's offense..West isn't a great rebounder or defender at all..we are a better team than we were last year with the extra depth now, while NO looks worse than last year..

Utah's frontcourt isn't a threat..Boozer struggles against us and struggles in the playoffs in general..Okur isn't an aggressive frontcourt player..this one isn't a problem..

Denver isn't a threat at all IMO..Nene defends Duncan well, but their perimeter defense is still average..Billups improves it, but there's no way Chauncey can stay with Tony, and there's even less of a chance that their other 2 positions can stay with Manu and Mason..major mismatch for us..

Phoenix is a joke..

the Lakers are the elite team in the West this year, and we'll need Mahinmi to be good enough to start or trading for a big man here..their size advantage is significant..

[DPG21920]

Fisher/Farmar Parker/Hill
Bryant/Vujacic Ginobili/Mason
Radmonovic/Odom Bowen/Finley
Gasol/Odom Duncan/Oberto
Bynum/Gasol Mahinmi/Thomas


its a wash

Bynum and Gasol are much much better than Mahinmi and Thomas. That is where the true problem lies. It is not a wash. Even our best players have a pretty equal or better player on the Lakers going against them. It will be tough and require a combo of good shooting, consistent defense and some luck to beat the Lakers as things stand now.

[Manufan909]

Fisher/Farmar Parker/Hill
Bryant/Vujacic Ginobili/Mason
Radmonovic/Odom Bowen/Finley
Gasol/Odom Duncan/Oberto
Bynum/Gasol Mahinmi/Thomas


its a wash

Didn't notice til later, but you can't put Gasol twice, unless he's been cloned and I didn't know. Same with Odom. God damn, what kind of crazy shit is going on in LA???

And why hasn't CIA Pop cloned Timmy yet?:downspin:

[tlongII]

The Spurs are too small. There is no way they could handle the Lakers, Blazers, or even the Suns in the playoffs this year. They would be dominated inside.

[K-State Spur]

The Spurs are too small. There is no way they could handle the Lakers, Blazers, or even the Suns in the playoffs this year. They would be dominated inside.

I don't buy that at all. The Lakers maybe...

But the Suns have proven that they can't overpower the Spurs inside. Any advantage they have inside is more than negated by the fact the Suns simply can't guard Parker/Manu. No matter what philosophy Porter wants to instill in that team, their best line-up still has 3 players who are terrible defensively. Bell/Hill can't cover for that many defensive breakdowns.

And your Blazers have to at least make the playoffs before they are considered a huge threat. I'm not as high on Aldridge as a lot of people. Against the Spurs, he seems perfectly content to shoot 15 footers. And he's one of the worst rebounding 6'11+ forwards in the entire league. Oden, meanwhile, has yet to prove that he'll even be on the floor come May.

Any hope for the Spurs rests in the return of Manu & Tony (and Duncan staying healthy). But that's a given in any season.

[HarlemHeat37]

the Suns can't beat us..do we have to go through this EVERY year?!..they just can't beat us..

LA is the only team we wouldn't be able to beat in a 7-game series when we're healthy..we would need Mahinmi or another big..or a SF like Azubuike as well..

I wouldn't oppose to seeing Zo in a Spurs uniform though, if he's interested later on in the year..he wouldn't get pushed around by anybody, he's still a great shot blocker and still has great defensive instincts..he doesn't score much, but we don't need scoring from the frontcourt, just rebounding and defense..

[mrspurs]

This current team is as good as the 3 point shooting. We live and die from beyond the arc. We died by it against the nuggets and we lived with it last night. And it has nothing todo with the teams we beat or lose to. Or with Manu and TP out. Its that simple

[K-State Spur]

This current team is as good as the 3 point shooting. We live and die from beyond the arc. We died by it against the nuggets and we lived with it last night. And it has nothing todo with the teams we beat or lose to. Or with Manu and TP out. Its that simple

That's always been the case though. Tim inside, Tony & Manu penetrating, and Pop surrounds them with as many shooters as possible.

The Spurs have never won much without the outside shot falling. Luckily, they've done a pretty good job (contrary to what is often stated on here) of finding the right shooters to fit into this team over the years.

[cherylsteele]

Pathetic suck ass spurs...

The Jazz were without their best players in Williams, Boozer, Korver and Collins.
The Spurs were missing Manu, Parker, and Ian, so what is your point.

[duncan228]

And why hasn't CIA Pop cloned Timmy yet?:downspin:

He did.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/oddsandends/Hemotivosig.png
Hemotivo's sig.

[whottt]

Re: Just how good is this team?

It's not very good at all. They have managed to get a couple of building blocks for the future though.

The biggest problem with this team...no supporting players with an assassins mentality.

Our veteran supporting players are chokers and our young guys don't have that instinct yet...I'll be surprised if we make it out of the first round.

Although it's not out of the realm of possiblity our young guys being assassins by seasons end...the odds are definitely against it with players this young.

Hopefully we'll tank and get that draft pick back.

[DPG21920]

It's not very good at all. They have managed to get a couple of building blocks for the future though.

The biggest problem with this team...no supporting players with an assassins mentality.

Our veteran supporting players are chokers and our young guys don't have that instinct yet...I'll be surprised if we make it out of the first round.

Although it's not out of the realm of possiblity our young guys being assassins by seasons end...the odds are definitely against it with players this young.

Hopefully we'll tank and get that draft pick back.

Mason???? He shoots eveytime he can, has hit a game winning 3 and had a career high last night.

[whottt]

Mason???? He shoots eveytime he can, has hit a game winning 3 and had a career high last night.


Seriously? Career high last night?


Holee shit....no one told me that....that's fucking incredible.


When's the parade?

[DPG21920]

Seriously? Career high last night?


Holee shit....no one told me that....that's fucking incredible.


When's the parade?

Holy shit, a guy who is shooting 47% from 3, hits game winners and makes guys like you look clueless. He should get a parade.

[Spurtacus]

Good enough to make the playoffs and go deep. We are one big man away from being at the level of the Lakers. Mahinmi the answer? I hope. If not, we need to acquire one in trade.

[lefty]

This team is the best in the West.

We have won some games without TP and Manu (of course, the addition of Hill and Mason have something to do with it)

thanks to the good surprises (Hill and Maze), + healthy Ginobulus and TP + Duncan, I think we can beat anyone.

I'm 200% convinced that KFC, Rivers and Byron are shitting in their pants right now

[whottt]

Holy shit, a guy who is shooting 47% from 3, hits game winners and makes guys like you look clueless. He should get a parade.


Yes because I said his shooting PCT was poor, and it's completely amazing that a career bench player has put up a career high as a starter, and hitting one game winning 3

A. Counts as game winner[s]

and

B. Means he's clutch.

[024]

parker > fisher / hill = farmar (maybe)
ginobili < bryant / mason/finley > vujacic
bowen = rad / udoka < ariza
duncan > gasol / bonner/tolliver < odom
bynum > thomas/oberto

in a rough comparison in starter and bench positions,

spurs starters: 2
lakers starters: 2

spurs bench: 1
lakers bench: 3

i hate to say it but lakers are currently too good against the spurs. there are a lot of "ifs" for the spurs if they want to compete against the lakers. only if bowen beats off old age with a stick, if everyone stays healthy, if mahinmi proves himself, if udoka can return to last year's playoffs level or better, if george hill continues to improve, if parker can continue consistently hitting jump shots because it will be much harder to get to the basket against two capable 7'0 shot blockers, and if ginobili comes back better than ever. what concerns me is the lakers' defense. they have solid perimeter defenders in fisher, kobe, and ariza but they also possess an even stronger interior presence. best way for the spurs to stay competitive right now is to find someone to match the lakers' frontcourt. spurs already have duncan, they just need one more capable big. people will say mahinmi but mahinmi will technically still be a rookie. will popovich really give a rookie a lot of minutes during the playoffs?

[whottt]

In looking for rays of hope as far as championships are concerned(and that's really what it is all about for this team)..the make up of this team is very similar to the 2002-2003 Spurs...it could go that way, but a lot of things went right for that team...and even more will have to go right for this team.


Maybe Mike Finley turns into Steve Kerr...
Maybe Thomas gives us what Kevin Willis and (for one game) Danny Ferry gave us...
Maybe Tolliver is to this team what Malik Rose was to that team.
Maybe Mahinmi in his first real season can give us some approximation of what Drob gave us in his final one...

Maybe Mason turns into Jack and Hill is to this team what Manu was to that one...


But that's a lot of maybes...and I haven't seen any evidence of it yet...I haven't seen any evidence of that sort of chemistry yet...

It's early and anything can happen...but to me this looks to be the worst team of the Duncan era as far as championship contention.

[DPG21920]

Yes because I said his shooting PCT was poor, and it's completely amazing that a career bench player has put up a career high as a starter, and hitting one game winning 3

A. Counts as game winner[s]

and

B. Means he's clutch.

You said he is not an assassin. He does not hesitate to shoot and he is doing so at a nice clip. He has shown you he is not only willing to take a big shot, but also make a big shot. He cannot hit a game winner in every damn game, what more do you want? 1 game winner in 12 games is pretty good, not to mention the scoring he has done so far.

[DPG21920]

In looking for rays of hope as far as championships are concerned(and that's really what it is all about for this team)..the make up of this team is very similar to the 2002-2003 Spurs...it could go that way, but a lot of things went right for that team...and even more will have to go right for this team.


Maybe Mike Finley turns into Steve Kerr...
Maybe Thomas gives us what Kevin Willis and (for one game) Danny Ferry gave us...
Maybe Tolliver is to this team what Malik Rose was to that team.
Maybe Mahinmi in his first real season can give us some approximation of what Drob gave us in his final one...

Maybe Mason turns into Jack and Hill is to this team what Manu was to that one...


But that's a lot of maybes...and I haven't seen any evidence of it yet...I haven't seen any evidence of that sort of chemistry yet...

It's early and anything can happen...but to me this looks to be the worst team of the Duncan era as far as championship contention.

That I agree with for the most part. I have seen flashes of depth and shooting and defense and intangibles.

[whottt]

One shot doesn't make an assassin...if that's the case Hedo Turkoglu was an assassin...

Don't tell me you know this guy is going to preform in the biggest of games...he hasn't been anywhere near one yet.

[DPG21920]

One shot doesn't make an assassin...if that's the case Hedo Turkoglu was an assassin...

Don't tell me you know this guy is going to preform in the biggest of games...he hasn't been anywhere near one yet.

One shot does not make an assassin, but continuing to shoot does. It is too early to say he is not one and maybe too early to say he is one. But he has shot often and well for the most part. He also hit plenty of timely shots in the playoffs for the Wiz last year.

[timvp]

It's not very good at all. They have managed to get a couple of building blocks for the future though.

The biggest problem with this team...no supporting players with an assassins mentality.

Translation:


I'm not a Spurs fan anymore.

Because Brent Barry left.

[ChumpDumper]

They're pretty good.

And they can get better.

It's nice to have some players with upside playing substantial minutes.

[xtremesteven33]

mqTyqXiZLJg


video to get the spurs/spurs fans pumped up to face the Lakers in the playoffs.....

[whottt]

It is too early to say he is not one and maybe too early to say he is one.

That's exactly my point...and since that is a rare skill, the odds are against him having it.



But he has shot often and well for the most part. He also hit plenty of timely shots in the playoffs for the Wiz last year.

He's got to do it against teams like the Lakers, Celtics and Hornets...and Suns. And even if he does BTW, that's still not enough...it's going to take more than him.

But yeah if he shows giant killing skill...it will mean a hell of a lot more for our chances. I haven't seen it yet...


And the thing is with young players...it usually takes a couple of painful losses to where they develop that killer instinct. Most of the time they have to learn to hate losing. Rookies and really young players usually don't have it right off the bat because they have their heads in the clouds over just being part an important part of the team... some of them do have it, most do not...sometimes veterans can scare them into having it...but most of the time they don't.

[whottt]

Translation:



Uh...that's fucking false...I was the first guy on the forum to say fuck Barry when he went to the Rockets....while your ass was saying he deserved more from the Spurs and talking about how he was going to be missed.

I don't give a crap if they were offering him 10 cents to play this season...he chose to go to the Rockets....and in doing so he chose to be the enemy.


Unlike timvp and his Avery Johnson fetish...my loyalty is to the team...not the player, except in only the most extreme of circumstances like the player being synonymous with the team...and I especially don't like it when the player slaps us in the face as he is leaving by going to one of our chief rivals.

To be fair though...it's not like Brent Barry did it knowing his jersey was going to be retired. That's a whole different level of scumbag there...when they do it like that.

[K-State Spur]

Healthy - this team has the opportunity to be every bit as good as some of the past championship squads. Tim's looking the same as ever, and Manu and Parker each are coming off the best all-around seasons of their careers (pre-injury for Manu).

Even if he falls off this pace a bit, Mason may the best 4th option we've had in the Duncan era.

And Hill - by May - looks to have the potential to be as good as some of you remember Speedy Claxton being.

The only problem is that there is more quality in the division and at the top of the league compared to the past championship years.

[timvp]

Uh...that's fucking false...I was the first guy on the forum to say fuck Barry when he went to the Rockets....while your ass was saying he deserved more from the Spurs and talking about how he was going to be missed.

I don't give a crap if they were offering him 10 cents to play this season...he chose to go to the Rockets....and in doing so he chose to be the enemy.


Unlike timvp and his Avery Johnson fetish...my loyalty is to the team...not the player, except in only the most extreme of circumstances like the player being synonymous with the team...and I especially don't like it when the player slaps us in the face as he is leaving by going to one of our chief rivals.

To be fair though...it's not like Brent Barry did it knowing his jersey was going to be retired. That's a whole different level of scumbag there...when they do it like that.

:lol Good to have whottt back in the Spurs forum. And good to still see that Brent Barry smack works like a charm. Glad I don't have to think of new material . . .

Anyways, "no supporting players with an assassins mentality" is obviously talking about Robert Horry. But who else left that made your statement plural.

Thanks.

[duncan228]

Good to have whottt back in the Spurs forum.

:tu It really is.

[mrspurs]

Translation:

:lol because Brent Barry left? Talk about clueless

[Allanon]

I'm 200% convinced that KFC, Rivers and Byron are shitting in their pants right now

KFC, Hahahahah. That's a good one :toast

[mrspurs]

mqTyqXiZLJg


video to get the spurs/spurs fans pumped up to face the Lakers in the playoffs.....

Kinda of premature dont ya think. I mean unless of course you know first hand the lakers wont have Kobe.

[Lakers_55]

I'll offer up a pesrpective from a Laker point of view. You need your guys healthy. So do we. Were we to lose Bynum again come playoff time, It's going to be tough to go all the way. Same with any other key player for us.

Baring injuries that hurt either of us, the records now are pretty meaningless. Either us could finish well above the other, the season has just started. Mid season acquisitions could play a role as well. However, the key is, who would win if the personnel stays as it is. No logical person can count either out. Your big three was strong enough to dominate from 2005 to 2007, but the league has adjusted. That's what happened to the Lakers after 2002. It was Shaq and Kobe and a bunch of average role players, and we haven't won since. Once you get TP and MG back, don't be surprised if you don't win a lot at first. The key will be how the last month of the regular season goes for both of us. We only play 3 games together in the regular season. You get us at home twice, a night after we play the Rockets both times. If one team can sweep the other in the regular season, Spurs have the better odds to do that it would seem. a 3-0 edge could be a psychological edge for either of us if we meet in the postseason. However, it's way to early to speculate with so many possible outcomes.

Just relax and enjoy the season. I said elsewhere you would be fine while TP and MG are out, and it looks like you are.

[z0sa]

I think the teams in the Western Conference this year are different than two years ago with their frontcourts. I think Phoenix would be a tougher problem this year than last year because they utilize Shaq more.

No doubt the entire landscape of the NBA changed just before last season's trade deadline. But I honestly hope they use Shaq more than Amare - have you seen Amare's numbers against us in the last few PO series? The Big Mouth averagd 15/9 last series, respectively. Not very scary. Even if they force feed him, he's not going over 20/11, which would stall that Phoenix offense just like we want it, and tire him out. He'd also have to nail some FTs. If you remember, Parker scorched them that series over and over, because Shaq doesn't have the ability to close out, and Amare just doesn't care about defense. Rinse and repeat with Manu - not exactly front court problems.


I think New Orleans will be a tougher match-up for the Spurs this year as they got that year experience in the playoffs.

How can you use this AGAINST the Spurs, when the Spurs beat THEM? :huh if any team gets a + in the experience dept, its us.


The Lakers already beat the Spurs in a playoff series without Andrew Bynum. Heck, I think the Spurs could struggle against Denver in a playoff series because of Nene.

Bynum has pretty much failed those high expectations (next DRob?:lmao), though he brings something they didnt have before which is a big interior presence. Then again, Manu was hurt, Pop failed to play someone else, we blew three 20 pt leads. LA is the ultimate overhyped basketball club - the Spurs had their number and just didn't pull it off.

Denver? Do we have to look at th Spurs playoff track record to see just how we dismantle Denver postseason after postseason? They can go on a 31-3 record after the All-star break a la 2005 and we will still hand them their asses - Pop has Karl beat in every category coaching wise, and Parker's speed is Billups achilles hill.


Like I said, the Spurs are still dangerous. Parker, Ginobili or Duncan could each drop a 40 point game if one of them got hot. But, I think in a seven game series, that front court will hurt the Spurs.

That's my opinion.

I understand, and am not trying to 'change' it. Just refute your reasons for it :toast

[Allanon]

Bynum has pretty much failed those high expectations (next DRob?:lmao), though he brings something they didnt have before which is a big interior presence.

I believe you should have another look. Bynum is rounding into form and his production is increasing. He started the first few games slow but he's starting to really pick it up now.

He's also worked on other aspects of his game (Defense/Mid-range jumper). Hollinger, Barkley and another ESPN article have attributed Bynum as the biggest reason for the Lakers improved defense. Bynum has been a serious defensive force.

Bynum has added major defense to his already solid offensive game. His explosiveness is coming back again.

As the season progresses, the Lakers will change to a more post-oriented game and that will mean more touches for Bynum.

Bynum's well on his way to being on the All-Star team this year (barring any player jumps from Power Forward to Center)

This Bynum is even better than last year's. He should be at 15 points/10 rebounds/3 blocks by January...that's super on a deep Lakers team that has to slice up minutes.

[JamStone]

z0sa,

I think you underrate the Suns. It's not the same team the Spurs faced last season, nor is it the same team it faced the last few playoff series before then. If your argument consists of "we beat them before, we'll beat them again" well then shit, no team but the Lakers will ever beat the Spurs in the playoffs. Teams change, players get better, players decline, situations become different, injuries to different teams happen, mental mistakes about staying on the bench in a fight may or may not happen. It's not as simple as saying "we owned them before in the playoffs, they can't beat us." Dallas would never have beaten the Spurs in 2006 then.

The experience argument I used for New Orleans isn't in comparison to the Spurs' experience as much as it is to say that as a team they had no playoff experience last year. Now, they know what to expect from a mental approach and style of aggressive play and how difficult it is.

Denver is also a different team. A healthy Nene is a beast. They have poise and tempo with Billups. It would be a different series. No guarantee the Nuggets beat the Spurs if both teams are healthy and face each other in a series, but I think they'd be a much bigger challenge, despite what has happened the previous couple times the two teams have met in the playoffs.

Teams get better. Teams get worse. I think it's happened in the Western Conference and with the Spurs.

[Mavs<Spurs]

The Spurs are a lot better than I thought they would be without Tony and Manu.

However, I think that they do need another big who can help Tim defend and rebound to be considered equally likely to win a 7 game series against LA.

[mystargtr34]

If the Spurs go back to playing Spurs defense, then that alone will give us a shot against anyone in a 7 game series provided everyone is healthy.

Again, if everyone is healthy, i would expect to win a 7 game series against any team in the league, outside of LA and Boston. If we beat either of those two, i would consider it an upset. But, alot of things can happen until then, right now im just happy to see the young guys and the new guys playing so well, and to be at 6-6 (5-1 without Tony) without Manu and Tony is pretty incredible. This should be a fun season when everyone returns.

[mrspurs]

The Spurs are a lot better than I thought they would be without Tony and Manu.

However, I think that they do need another big who can help Tim defend and rebound to be considered equally likely to win a 7 game series against LA.

Not just the Lakers.

[K-State Spur]

z0sa,

I think you underrate the Suns. It's not the same team the Spurs faced last season, nor is it the same team it faced the last few playoff series before then. If your argument consists of "we beat them before, we'll beat them again" well then shit, no team but the Lakers will ever beat the Spurs in the playoffs. Teams change, players get better, players decline, situations become different, injuries to different teams happen, mental mistakes about staying on the bench in a fight may or may not happen. It's not as simple as saying "we owned them before in the playoffs, they can't beat us." Dallas would never have beaten the Spurs in 2006 then.

The experience argument I used for New Orleans isn't in comparison to the Spurs' experience as much as it is to say that as a team they had no playoff experience last year. Now, they know what to expect from a mental approach and style of aggressive play and how difficult it is.

Denver is also a different team. A healthy Nene is a beast. They have poise and tempo with Billups. It would be a different series. No guarantee the Nuggets beat the Spurs if both teams are healthy and face each other in a series, but I think they'd be a much bigger challenge, despite what has happened the previous couple times the two teams have met in the playoffs.

Teams get better. Teams get worse. I think it's happened in the Western Conference and with the Spurs.

It's still a team that - when they have their best 5 on the floor - have 3 BAD (not mediocre, but BAD) defensive players out there at a given time.

Historically, Parker owns Nash. And I don't see any reason why that would change. And even this year's edition of the Suns aren't going to beat anybody in the playoffs if they don't have the advantage at the PG position.

[Frenchise player]

z0sa,

I think you underrate the Suns. It's not the same team the Spurs faced last season, nor is it the same team it faced the last few playoff series before then. If your argument consists of "we beat them before, we'll beat them again" well then shit, no team but the Lakers will ever beat the Spurs in the playoffs. Teams change, players get better, players decline, situations become different, injuries to different teams happen, mental mistakes about staying on the bench in a fight may or may not happen. It's not as simple as saying "we owned them before in the playoffs, they can't beat us." Dallas would never have beaten the Spurs in 2006 then.

The experience argument I used for New Orleans isn't in comparison to the Spurs' experience as much as it is to say that as a team they had no playoff experience last year. Now, they know what to expect from a mental approach and style of aggressive play and how difficult it is.

Denver is also a different team. A healthy Nene is a beast. They have poise and tempo with Billups. It would be a different series. No guarantee the Nuggets beat the Spurs if both teams are healthy and face each other in a series, but I think they'd be a much bigger challenge, despite what has happened the previous couple times the two teams have met in the playoffs.

Teams get better. Teams get worse. I think it's happened in the Western Conference and with the Spurs.

You are right to say that every season is different and it is not because the Spurs did it in the past that they will do this year too.

But the only team who has proved it can win championships in the west are the Spurs with the Manu-Parker-Duncan core.
The Spurs will only begin to decline when one of these three players don't perform anymore, but so far Parker in the few games he played has been terrific, Duncan is playing like he is 26 and Manu had his best regular season last year.

On the other hand, so far the western conference isn't as good as last year.
Phoenix and Houston are works in progress, these teams are playing worse than the sum of their parts and 2 of their 3 stars have shown signs of decline (it's more than signs for Shaq and TMac).
Denver is not a contender sorry, their entire season hinges on Nene and Martin staying healthy (it would be miraculous considering their history) and Carmelo is not a Franchise player, he doesn't make his teammates better, he is not a leader and that's why they traded for Billups.
New Orleans is probably going to be a contender but they had everything in hand last year and didn't get it done, moreover I don't think they are as good as they seemed to be last year, West was out of his mind in the first games.
In the same category you have Utah, is DWill-Boozer-AK47 a championship core? Don't think so.
Finally you have the Lake show, a great team, Kobe is a franchise player, Gasol-Bynum is the best frontcourt in the NBA, deep and quality bench.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, Spurs-Lakers in the WCF.

[024]

judging from the beginning of the season, the lakers should be the spurs' only focus. even if the spurs can beat the rockets, hornets, or jazz, the lakers remain the spurs' biggest obstacle. lakers just have to make sure they don't screw up by getting injured or getting into petty fights about playing time. if they can do that, barring some major addition on another contending team, the lakers should blow through the western conference. hopefully, the lakers will come back down to earth the say way the spurs did last year. if the lakers keep up their intensity and continue to develop, they are going to be a very hard team to beat.

[DPG21920]

I do not think Bynum has under achieved. He is doing well on a crowded team that is still trying to gel. Plus he is still rusty. He is far ahead of what I thought he would be.

[itzsoweezee]

spurs would be championship material if they had quality big men (other than duncan). maybe mahinmi will be the savior, but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[Russ]

All they need to win it all is a big man who can run the floor, play a liitle D, and board some.

Doesn't have to have great basketball skills, just be big, athletic and understand how to take direction.

Mahinmi would seem to be ideal but no one seems confident enough to push him into the fray, whether it be the Spurs, the French national team or an international suitor. Is he bright enough? Ruthless enough? Tough enough? He seems to be the reluctant warrior at this point with "something" missing.

In fact, the Spurs have lost out on international big men recently because the ones they drafted were in too much demand, i.e., Splitter and Scola.

The good news is no one else seems to want Mahinmi. That may be the bad news too.

[mystargtr34]

I do not think Bynum has under achieved. He is doing well on a crowded team that is still trying to gel. Plus he is still rusty. He is far ahead of what I thought he would be.

I think your the first person here to actually say that. People expect him to put up 20-10 on a team where most nights hes the third and fourth option. If he can play 75 games, grab 10 rebounds and block 2-3 shots a game, hes doing exactly what they need him to do. Hes going to get his 8-10 points without much stuff run for him because he so damn long and athletic, and he has good skills. I think the Lakers are pretty happy with where hes at right now.

[barbacoataco]

The Spurs look better than expected considering the injuries. One issue with the Lakers is that Bowen no longer is effective against Kobe, and neither is Udoka. In 2003 Bowen handled Bryant, but not last year. That is a problem, but good team defense could still slow Kobe if the Spurs are really on their game.

[Russ]

The Spurs look better than expected considering the injuries. One issue with the Lakers is that Bowen no longer is effective against Kobe, and neither is Udoka.

How about Hill?

[Mulletino]

This team is better than last years team. We are just short Manu and Tony. Once they come back, Spurs will be unstoppable.

[xellos88330]

I hope that Ian is the 2nd big that most of us here have been clamoring for. If he is, I think we match up well against the Lakers and any other team for that matter.

The main reason why the Lakers beat the Spurs was because noone seemed to be able to meet them above the rim. With Mahinmi who is a solid athlete, could provide the presence above the rim that the Spurs need so far this season. Bye bye easy layups and dunks just because you can jump high.

[mystargtr34]

How about Hill?

Dont know about that. Hes long but hes still 6'2" maybe 6'3" on a good day and about 185. Too small.

[DPG21920]

bump

[ducks]

title contender

[ducks]

they own houston in the playoffs

[CubanMustGo]

bump

[z0sa]

I believe you should have another look. Bynum is rounding into form and his production is increasing. He started the first few games slow but he's starting to really pick it up now.

He's also worked on other aspects of his game (Defense/Mid-range jumper). Hollinger, Barkley and another ESPN article have attributed Bynum as the biggest reason for the Lakers improved defense. Bynum has been a serious defensive force.

Umm... of course the Lakers were going to get better on defensive with Bynum replacing Pau at center, and Pau moving to his more natural 4 spot. It doesn't surprise anyone, and I gave him and LA credit, saying he's a big interior presence. Where did I sell him short?


Bynum has added major defense to his already solid offensive game. His explosiveness is coming back again.

I would beg to differ, having watched Bynum closely since being drafted (as close as I can at least - I've caught at least 20 Laker games that weren't nationally televised in the past two seasons). His offense is going to separate him from many big men, his defense has always been more than decent (what would you expect, him growing up with Tim as his role model? :hat). But that offense is not going to be there every night, especially come PO time.


As the season progresses, the Lakers will change to a more post-oriented game and that will mean more touches for Bynum.

Bynum's well on his way to being on the All-Star team this year (barring any player jumps from Power Forward to Center)

Why they would go to Bynum more and not Pau should they change their style of game is beyond me (why change your style of play midway through the season anyway?). Pau is just much, much better on the block, and any additional post plays other than usual should go through him.


This Bynum is even better than last year's. He should be at 15 points/10 rebounds/3 blocks by January...that's super on a deep Lakers team that has to slice up minutes.

Its November and 12 games into the season. January is still a month away and a lot of West teams will be healthy(er) by then. Let's talk stats after they happen, not before. Besides, championships aren't won in January. I think you'll want Bynum and the Lakers playing their best BBall come April.

[z0sa]

z0sa,

I think you underrate the Suns. It's not the same team the Spurs faced last season, nor is it the same team it faced the last few playoff series before then.

It isn't? The only difference I see is Matt Barnes roster wise. Terry Porter's system is better than D'Antoni's, but will end up hurting them. The Suns are not made for half-court basketball (other than Shaq, of course). I just don't see how the exact two teams meet this season and anything's different.


If your argument consists of "we beat them before, we'll beat them again" well then shit, no team but the Lakers will ever beat the Spurs in the playoffs. Teams change, players get better, players decline, situations become different, injuries to different teams happen, mental mistakes about staying on the bench in a fight may or may not happen. It's not as simple as saying "we owned them before in the playoffs, they can't beat us." Dallas would never have beaten the Spurs in 2006 then.

I didnt' really do that, but what do you expect, anyway? PHO for instance. If we meet, the teams are the same, and the mentality that hurt so many the most with that roster, run run run, is gone. I am less scared of the Suns than ever, frontcourt problems or no, and I can tell you most NBA fans can understand my position. The fact we've beat this roster and a similar one three times before it just proves my point.


The experience argument I used for New Orleans isn't in comparison to the Spurs' experience as much as it is to say that as a team they had no playoff experience last year. Now, they know what to expect from a mental approach and style of aggressive play and how difficult it is.

The very fact we beat just last season should be enough. True, they were inexperienced - but they didn't play like it. You could say they didn't do nearly as well on the road, but neither did the incredibly experienced Spurs. I can't see them improving on what was really a special series for them, one I don't expect to happen again even. Last year was their best time to beat this spurs roster as it stands, and they couldn't pull it off. How do I justify this? Pop made some excellent adjustments during the series which would be there from the get-go, like Bowen on Peja, which altered NO's gameplan after Game 3. I would go as far to say that single adjustment alone wins either Game 1 or 2 in NO, even with Tim sick and Manu injured.

They added Posey, a good move, but lost Pargo, who was great for them during the regular season. Posey vs Manu will be excellent to watch when the time comes, but he doesn't put them over the top.


Denver is also a different team. A healthy Nene is a beast. They have poise and tempo with Billups. It would be a different series. No guarantee the Nuggets beat the Spurs if both teams are healthy and face each other in a series, but I think they'd be a much bigger challenge, despite what has happened the previous couple times the two teams have met in the playoffs.

Dude, c'mon. I don't really have to argue this, do I? We've rolled two different Nuggets teams on two separate title runs. I WANT Nene touching the ball and beating us every time, keep it out of Melo's hands and keep him shooting jumpers. Billups? he's one of my favorite players in the L. His leadership is nice and all, but come playoff time, he ain't gonna have his longtime Detroit buddies around, it's going to be this young and inexperienced (except at losing) Denver squad. They're hungry yes, but I don't see anything but another first round exit.


Teams get better. Teams get worse. I think it's happened in the Western Conference and with the Spurs.

You've said this more or less for a while now, but your reasoning behind has no base. You remind me of East Coast journalists writing the Spurs off year after year because they're too old, they're unathletic, they're system doesn't work, this up and coming team will destroy them, etc. We've heard it all before, and by this point I think we can agree its pointless to count the spurs out til they've lost 4 out of 7.

This team we have is better in just about every regard compared to last season, and we were a Manu injury from an epic series against LA. Do we need help upfront? Sure. Which team doesn't need help somewhere?

I mean, really, I'm curious. Phoenix you think got our number, despite losing AGAIN to US after a huge trade? How about utah, whose essentially same team we thrashed on the way to a championship? NO, who we beat in a Game 7 at their home court just last season with an injured Manu? Denver, who we've manhandled two different title runs with them having two different mentalities and major pieces, and having late season runs? Portland, who'll be lucky to get 3-4 games over .500 and a playoff spot? Dallas, who has a worst record than us right now despite being fully healthy? Houston I mention with a bit of fear, but considering what we did to them without Manu and Tony just a few games back ... I don't see their hearts in the right place even yet, which means it may never happen.

Lakers and us take the cake in the West. Don't buy into the "pundits" on ESPN, bro.

[Sissiborgo]

I mean if manu will be back and we will have a 100% team than we are top 3...

[wijayas]

So this may be too close to the romp of the Jazz, with two exceptional performances by George Hill and Roger Mason, but just how good is this team? Albeit this is purely a matter of speculation, but maybe we should start thinking about this given the pending arrival of Manu (within 1 week) and Tony shortly thereafter.

Manu and Tony will obviously eat a lot of Hill's and Mason's minutes, but I don't think that it's a stretch to believe that these two will continue to give us some output. And, given one of our biggest problems last year was the 3-5 minute scoring drought/lack of a dependable scorer -- I think Hill and Mason go a long way to curing that problem.

But do we have enough to beat the Lakers? Will we have enough scoring to do the trick? And what do we need from our bigs in order to match up with Bynum and Gasol? Does anyone here really think that Mahimi will tilt the scales in our favor over the Lakers?

I think this team is pretty fucking good -- I just don't know if its good enough to beat the Lakers. Thoughts?

It was a great game against Utah. But let's not get carried away. We allow Utah to shoot 49%! To be the real Spurs we have come to know, we need to keep the opponents at 40% clip, max.

Long season.

[ClingingMars]

nice sig.....i can definitely feel your hostility.....btw....the Spurs have been fuckin the Suns, prison style, for the last 6 years. I wonder if Nash, Stoudamire, Bell, Marion, and D'Antoni have nightmares about SA?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

-Mars

[Allanon]

Umm... of course the Lakers were going to get better on defensive with Bynum replacing Pau at center, and Pau moving to his more natural 4 spot. It doesn't surprise anyone, and I gave him and LA credit, saying he's a big interior presence. Where did I sell him short?

Last year, Bynum wasn't strong enough to keep post players from getting deep position on him...he was getting pushed around easily. His added strength now makes him the best defensive Center in the West.



I would beg to differ, having watched Bynum closely since being drafted (as close as I can at least - I've caught at least 20 Laker games that weren't nationally televised in the past two seasons). His offense is going to separate him from many big men, his defense has always been more than decent (what would you expect, him growing up with Tim as his role model? :hat). But that offense is not going to be there every night, especially come PO time.

Why they would go to Bynum more and not Pau should they change their style of game is beyond me (why change your style of play midway through the season anyway?). Pau is just much, much better on the block, and any additional post plays other than usual should go through him.

The Lakers were a guard oriented team in the first few games. After the Detroit loss, the Lakers are concentrating on getting the ball in the post.

You saw in the first couple of games, Bynum wasn't dunking and was missing lobs. Now he's dunking and able to catch the lob passes. His explosiveness is almost back from last year. His scoring has increased quite a bit and Phil is starting to run plays for him.

Bynum is already averaging 10 points on ~50% shooting and 9 rebounds on a team with 7 players averaging about 10 points. And he's only playing 28 minutes. No doubt Bynum can score, there just aren't enough shots for him to score alot more. I think if Bynum can get up to about 60% on FG%, he should get about 15 points.



Its November and 12 games into the season. January is still a month away and a lot of West teams will be healthy(er) by then. Let's talk stats after they happen, not before. Besides, championships aren't won in January. I think you'll want Bynum and the Lakers playing their best BBall come April.

I agree, let's wait for a better time to discuss Bynum (in a different thread).

Back on topic.

[lotr1trekkie]

Mason is an upgrade over Barry. Hill is a big upgrade over Vaughn and Stodamire. Until we know about Mahimni's abilities we are still short on bigs that can do more than one thing. A true center would be a blessing when Tim is sitting. Rebound and defend the rim. The salary cap is the limiting factor.

[peskypesky]

This team is better than last years team. We are just short Manu and Tony. Once they come back, Spurs will be unstoppable.

I almost agreed with you....but then I remembered how poorly Oberto & Thomas have been playing and I stopped myself. Sure, Mason is a big plus over last year, and Hill looks he's going to be a plus as well....but the minus in the paint is going to be hard to overcome.

Despite what everyone wants to believe, it's not PG's and SG's that lead to Championships. It's big men.

[DPG21920]

I almost agreed with you....but then I remembered how poorly Oberto & Thomas have been playing and I stopped myself. Sure, Mason is a big plus over last year, and Hill looks he's going to be a plus as well....but the minus in the paint is going to be hard to overcome.

Despite what everyone wants to believe, it's not PG's and SG's that lead to Championships. It's big men.

Last game was encouraging from Oberto. He played smart defense, made some nice passes and actually made some very aggressive moves towards the basket on offense. If he can continue to be aggressive on offense that would be a huge help. He also needs to pick up the rebounding.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think you guys are being a little too critical of Oberto and KT. Right now, scoring is a tall order for this team, from the few games I've seen Popovich has been forced to go small more often than normal in order to create more baskets. He has also had to worry less about defensive rebounding in order to create more easy baskets on the break. When their two starting guards are out and they basically have no off the dribble offense in the half court, it has a ripple down effect on the rest of the team and the way it has to operate.

Big men do win championships, yes, but SG's also win championships, if you want to be a good defensive team that specializes in half court offense you need a SG who can get to the rim like Ginobili can, they don't have that right now, which is forcing Pop to go to KT and Oberto less and Bonner more in order to spread the floor for the offense to generate points easier.