Standardized Testing - Yet Again

[MannyIsGod]

The article speaks for itself


Roddy Stinson: How to raise test scores and other lessons out of Houston

Web Posted: 02/22/2005 12:00 AM CST


San Antonio Express-News

There must be 50 ways to cheat on standardized tests and turn untaught students into blue-ribbon geniuses.

Houston School District officials found five ways while investigating allegations of cheating at just one school.

After interviewing 17 students who took the 2004 fifth-grade Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills math test at Sanderson Elementary School, district investigators reported that most of the students said they had received improper assistance.

Specifically (as reported by the Dallas Morning News, whose recent investigation of TAKS scores found evidence of cheating at hundreds of schools):

Fourteen students said at least one teacher helped them solve test problems by giving them examples of practice problems.

Thirteen said at least one teacher told them to raise their hands during TAKS testing if they needed help.

Three students said at least one teacher pointed to an answer if students weren't able to solve a problem on their own.

Fourteen students said at least one teacher reviewed their math problems and marked some to be rechecked. (All 14 said they changed their answers on the marked problems.)

Five students said at least one teacher told them the right answer to a question after they changed it to a wrong answer.

As a result of these findings, Houston school officials fired two Sanderson Elementary math teachers and demoted the school's principal to assistant principal.

Think of the trio as sacrificial lambs.

In the wake of the Dallas Morning News' convincing evidential report of TAKS cheating, the Texas educational establishment had to spill some blood to maintain an image of honesty and trustworthiness. Without such, it would be hard to wring billions of new dollars out of state taxpayers, the establishment's eternal biennial goal.

Of course, that little-bloodletting tactic will work. (It always does.)

So don't waste any time, energy or taxpayer teeth-grinding wondering ...

How did fifth-grade students in a school in a low-income Houston neighborhood produce the highest scale math scores in Texas without triggering a single question in the bowels of the state's multilayered, zillion-dollar educational bureaucracy?

How did fifth-grade math students do so extraordinarily well in a school whose fourth-grade math students scored in the bottom 2 percent of the state without eliciting a "maybe we should look into this" from one of the multitude of high-dollar educators and testing consultants who annually suck wads of cash out of Texas taxpayers' pockets?

How did Sanderson Elementary, which was once featured on the state's list of "clearly unacceptable" schools, reach the prestigious status of "Blue Ribbon School" without alerting any of the brainy holders of graduate degrees at the Texas Education Agency to a possible test-tampering problem?

Is the Sanderson Elementary case (a) a Houston aberration or (b) the tip of a widespread-cheating iceberg whose exposure would undo the politicians and bureaucrats who designed and funded the current public-school "accountability" system and who continue to stake their reputations on it?

If you believe the Dallas Morning News' findings (and I do), the answer is "b."

And that's why the first three questions were not — and never will be — asked by the Texas educational establishment.

[ClintSquint]

What ever happened to "homework, quizes, tests and final exams" being graded and being the basis for a passing or failing grade?

I also think all HS kids should be required to take 4 years of Math, English, Science and Social Studies with at least 1 year of government taken in your Junior or Senior year.

I don't believe in the Standardized test. What good is a student striving for straight A's if they still have to pass the Standardized test?

[FromWayDowntown]

Schools should be in the business of teaching children the building blocks of their future: how to think and to solve problems. Standardized testing does nothing to measure thinking. Formulaic regurgitation of testing strategies isn't thinking. But since teaching those things is hard, we've just given up on doing it, in favor of some system by which many children cannot find ways to solve problems that weren't on a practice test.

[MannyIsGod]

It's ridiculous. The school sytem has a really horrible way of measuring accountability with these tests. It's so damn shortsighted.

[NameDropper]

I thought the purpose of the Standardized Test is so that No Child Gets Left Behind?

[Clandestino]

what is wrong with testing? you never get out of tests in your life... these kids should take the fucking test and shut up... you have driver's license tests, they will be tested in college, many jobs require tests... tests are a fact of life..they need to learn to face that fact now!

[Clandestino]

Fourteen students said at least one teacher helped them solve test problems by giving them examples of practice problems. giving examples doesn't seem like cheating to me.

Thirteen said at least one teacher told them to raise their hands during TAKS testing if they needed help.doesn't mean she gave them the answer

Three students said at least one teacher pointed to an answer if students weren't able to solve a problem on their own. now, this is cheating

Fourteen students said at least one teacher reviewed their math problems and marked some to be rechecked. (All 14 said they changed their answers on the marked problems.) also wrong

Five students said at least one teacher told them the right answer to a question after they changed it to a wrong answer. wrong

[MannyIsGod]

what is wrong with testing? you never get out of tests in your life... these kids should take the fucking test and shut up... you have driver's license tests, they will be tested in college, many jobs require tests... tests are a fact of life..they need to learn to face that fact now!

I wonder at times why I bother to answer you when you have so little grasp on the situation.

No one here is arguing against tests. Standardized testing is the focus of our educational system. Teachers dont teach subjects, they teach how to pass tests.

You know what, forget it. I'll save it for when it matters.

[FromWayDowntown]

what is wrong with testing? you never get out of tests in your life... these kids should take the fucking test and shut up... you have driver's license tests, they will be tested in college, many jobs require tests... tests are a fact of life..they need to learn to face that fact now!

There's nothing wrong with testing. Tests should be given in schools to reinforce what students are learning. But standardized testing is an entirely different animal; it doesn't measure a student's ability to think -- it measures the ability to capitalize on short-term memory by regurgitating unconnected facts and principles. If you want to test students, ask them to solve problems that require the implementation of several different principles at once; ask them to read a passage and write an essay about some issue related to that passage; ask them to write an essay about the historical significance of some movement or person. Answering those types of questions requires learning and thinking; it requires absorption and application.

It's a much harder on teachers and doesn't lend itself to standardized results, but it is such a better way to actually educate.

[Clandestino]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers

[exstatic]

Teachers dont teach subjects, they teach how to pass tests.
We have a winner.


... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers
Lazy profs, or slipping standards.

[FromWayDowntown]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers

And that's the problem. There's very little real "learning" involved in that process. That standardized testing is used more frequently does not mean that standardized tests are even remotely close to essay examinations or paper-writing as a means to teach critical thinking.

You'll never convince me that standardized tests are anything other than an easy grading method for teachers. In humanities classes, papers permit students to apply a basic knowledge of some facts to particular issues and show that they've understood the entire subject. In math and sciences, non-multiple choice testing permits teachers to evaluate the processes by which students get to particular answers and see what students are or are not learning. In either event, the use of papers or essay examinations is a far superior testing methodology.

Most collegiate programs aren't about teaching students how to think critically -- they're about milling tuition payments and pushing students through the system.

[ClintSquint]

what is wrong with testing? you never get out of tests in your life... these kids should take the fucking test and shut up... you have driver's license tests, they will be tested in college, many jobs require tests... tests are a fact of life..they need to learn to face that fact now!

That is what final exams and tests are for!

Does one need to pass a standardized test to earn a college degree?

[FromWayDowntown]

That is what final exams and tests are for!

Does one need to pass a standardized test to earn a college degree?

Sadly, anymore, at many colleges, that's about all it takes.

. . . . that and the regular payment of tuition.

[Brodels]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers

You could, of course, choose a quality program at a quality college. It's not always like that.

[dcole50]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers
what college do you/did you attend? maybe there's some regurgitation in freshman level classes, but after that there should be none. i'm finishing my junior year at the moment and i can't think of any class where tests were taken from "test banks" aside from maybe 100 level economics, psychology, and sociology.

you only write papers in honors classes? did you not have to take western civ, engilish comp, or any lit classes?

like manny stated, teachers teach students to pass tests. at local high schools in alabama, they are merely concerned with student's grades on standardized tests since that's how the school gains more money from the state.

[scott]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers

Sounds like you go to a shitty college.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Fourteen students said at least one teacher helped them solve test problems by giving them examples of practice problems. giving examples doesn't seem like cheating to me.

Thirteen said at least one teacher told them to raise their hands during TAKS testing if they needed help.doesn't mean she gave them the answer

Three students said at least one teacher pointed to an answer if students weren't able to solve a problem on their own. now, this is cheating

Fourteen students said at least one teacher reviewed their math problems and marked some to be rechecked. (All 14 said they changed their answers on the marked problems.) also wrong

Five students said at least one teacher told them the right answer to a question after they changed it to a wrong answer. wrong

It may not seem wrong to you, but those that came up with the tests believe so as it's very specific in their rules about the type of assistance teachers and procters can give to students. Essentially, none.

I know that because I was a procter for one standardized exam and my mom has done it multiple times in her job at a NISD elementary school.

[MannyIsGod]

well, i guess you guys haven't been in college lately.. the majority of tests are questions taken straight from test banks.. all regurgitated info... only in the honors classes have i actually had to write essays on tests and write papers

WTF? Yeah, maybe in Freshman level classes. Shit, maybe even a few Sophmore level classes.

Ha, I think the posts above already covered it. I'll let it stand.

[Clandestino]

what college do you/did you attend? maybe there's some regurgitation in freshman level classes, but after that there should be none. i'm finishing my junior year at the moment and i can't think of any class where tests were taken from "test banks" aside from maybe 100 level economics, psychology, and sociology.

you only write papers in honors classes? did you not have to take western civ, engilish comp, or any lit classes?

like manny stated, teachers teach students to pass tests. at local high schools in alabama, they are merely concerned with student's grades on standardized tests since that's how the school gains more money from the state.

in my senior year at utsa...and most of my tests have been all scantron tests... even my lit classes were scantron... history were scantron..the english weren't though...

[Clandestino]

Sounds like you go to a shitty college.

i go to utsa..i have friends who go to st marys, incarnate word, san marcos, etc....same shit

[travis2]

There's nothing wrong with testing. Tests should be given in schools to reinforce what students are learning. But standardized testing is an entirely different animal; it doesn't measure a student's ability to think -- it measures the ability to capitalize on short-term memory by regurgitating unconnected facts and principles. If you want to test students, ask them to solve problems that require the implementation of several different principles at once; ask them to read a passage and write an essay about some issue related to that passage; ask them to write an essay about the historical significance of some movement or person. Answering those types of questions requires learning and thinking; it requires absorption and application.

It's a much harder on teachers and doesn't lend itself to standardized results, but it is such a better way to actually educate.

I completely agree, this is the way teaching should be done.

Unfortunately, it's not only hard...today's climate makes it impossible.

Asking someone to "read a passage and write an essay about some issue..." seems easy enough to do. But on what criteria do you grade that essay?

More to the point...let's say the teacher is someone who's political and life outlooks were formed in the 1960s, and maintains a very "left-leaning" viewpoint. Let's say the student is a member of the school's Young Republicans club. The reading and essay have to do with economic policy.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

And before you say "teachers are more objective than that", do some homework concerning the treatment of "conservative" students in todays universities.

I'm not taking shots at you and I don't think it shouldn't be done...I'm just trying to point out that the problem is even harder than you think.

[Clandestino]

I completely agree, this is the way teaching should be done.

Unfortunately, it's not only hard...today's climate makes it impossible.

Asking someone to "read a passage and write an essay about some issue..." seems easy enough to do. But on what criteria do you grade that essay?

More to the point...let's say the teacher is someone who's political and life outlooks were formed in the 1960s, and maintains a very "left-leaning" viewpoint. Let's say the student is a member of the school's Young Republicans club. The reading and essay have to do with economic policy.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

And before you say "teachers are more objective than that", do some homework concerning the treatment of "conservative" students in todays universities.

I'm not taking shots at you and I don't think it shouldn't be done...I'm just trying to point out that the problem is even harder than you think.

exactly, everyone has biases and they truly can't be taken out when grading. imagine getting that wackjob from colorado as a professor!

[spurster]

High stakes standardized testing stinks, but what is the alternative? How would you determine whether schools are teaching what they are supposed to be teaching? And how would you make them accountable? Unfortunately, instead of coming up with a plan and funding for a plan to help poor performing schools, students, etc., the pressure often ends up on teachers in poor schools without giving them any support. Our Lege is currently working on keeping this tradition.

As for essays, the TAKS test in which students write an essay was just administered.

As for standardized tests being unfair or inappropriate, it depends on how well the questions are written. It is sometimes easier to BS through an essay rather than coming up with the one right answer to a multiple choice. Honestly, my high school Physics teacher would give us take-home multiple choice tests, which we would work on in groups, and we were lucky to get better than 50%.

[bigzak25]

shit, i still remember my first standardized test in 83' i believe...good ol 3rd grade.

the problem in schools is lazy, undisciplined kids. who cracks the whip? the school will get sued? this is an easy out for the lazy teachers, and lights the fuse of exasperation for the good teachers.....standardized tests bring all this to the forefront. everyone that's been dragging ass all year has to be compared to everyone that hasn't. the assdraggers cry foul...or they cheat. simple solution, have monitors like JB present that have no stakes in the the students scores. no more cheating.

there's alot of crap broken with our education system, but it's not the testing.

[mrblonde17]

I'm a high school teacher, so I'll give you guys a perspective that may or may not be new.

Not a single one of you have touched on an issue that doesn't seem to get any attention. The groups that lobby for these standardized test are very often the same people that design and sell these tests to the state. Standardized testing is a multi-million dollar industry. I look at these tests as a slap in the face. I have a professional degree in every subject I teach and a teaching certification. I know what I'm teaching, I know how to teach it, and what I teach is valuable. Standardized testing assumes two things: 1) students are standardized, meaning that they all learn the same subjects the same way to the same degree; and 2) as teachers, either we're not doing our job adequately and/or they just don't trust us. All students learn to different degrees and some do better in certain subject areas. I stunk the joint up in math, but I graduated from SWT with a 3.9. My SATs and ACTs weren't great either. Standardized testing takes account of none of this.

I also take offense to the idea that educators insert a political bias into their teaching. One of the classes I teach is journalism, so I know something about being objective. The majority of teachers I know in both high school and university do an excellent job of presenting ideas from as many perspectives as possible. We got into teaching because we're passionate about what we teach, we enjoy working with the kids, and we want to help future generations succeed. It certainly isn't because we're trying to push an agenda onto the minds of kids.

Actually, I got into teaching to make lots of money!!

[Clandestino]

I'm a high school teacher, so I'll give you guys a perspective that may or may not be new.

Not a single one of you have touched on an issue that doesn't seem to get any attention. The groups that lobby for these standardized test are very often the same people that design and sell these tests to the state. Standardized testing is a multi-million dollar industry. I look at these tests as a slap in the face. I have a professional degree in every subject I teach and a teaching certification. I know what I'm teaching, I know how to teach it, and what I teach is valuable. Standardized testing assumes two things: 1) students are standardized, meaning that they all learn the same subjects the same way to the same degree; and 2) as teachers, either we're not doing our job adequately and/or they just don't trust us. All students learn to different degrees and some do better in certain subject areas. I stunk the joint up in math, but I graduated from SWT with a 3.9. My SATs and ACTs weren't great either. Standardized testing takes account of none of this.

I also take offense to the idea that educators insert a political bias into their teaching. One of the classes I teach is journalism, so I know something about being objective. The majority of teachers I know in both high school and university do an excellent job of presenting ideas from as many perspectives as possible. We got into teaching because we're passionate about what we teach, we enjoy working with the kids, and we want to help future generations succeed. It certainly isn't because we're trying to push an agenda onto the minds of kids.

Actually, I got into teaching to make lots of money!!

not all teachers are the same... that is another reason for standardized testing...

[travis2]

I'm a high school teacher, so I'll give you guys a perspective that may or may not be new.

Not a single one of you have touched on an issue that doesn't seem to get any attention. The groups that lobby for these standardized test are very often the same people that design and sell these tests to the state. Standardized testing is a multi-million dollar industry. I look at these tests as a slap in the face. I have a professional degree in every subject I teach and a teaching certification. I know what I'm teaching, I know how to teach it, and what I teach is valuable. Standardized testing assumes two things: 1) students are standardized, meaning that they all learn the same subjects the same way to the same degree; and 2) as teachers, either we're not doing our job adequately and/or they just don't trust us. All students learn to different degrees and some do better in certain subject areas. I stunk the joint up in math, but I graduated from SWT with a 3.9. My SATs and ACTs weren't great either. Standardized testing takes account of none of this.

I also take offense to the idea that educators insert a political bias into their teaching. One of the classes I teach is journalism, so I know something about being objective. The majority of teachers I know in both high school and university do an excellent job of presenting ideas from as many perspectives as possible. We got into teaching because we're passionate about what we teach, we enjoy working with the kids, and we want to help future generations succeed. It certainly isn't because we're trying to push an agenda onto the minds of kids.

Actually, I got into teaching to make lots of money!!

My mom was a high school math/science teacher. My mother-in-law was an elementary teacher.

When you say "we", you are talking about the teachers who want to be there, who really care about teaching. That's great.

But you know and I know that not every teacher is like you. You know and I know that a significant percentage just don't give a $h!t. You know and I know that not every teacher has the educational background in their "subjects" that you do or my mom did.

And it's the incompetents that will use every trick in the book with the teachers unions and other lobbyists to keep things as simple as possible for themselves.

And if you don't think that there are teachers/professors out there who punish students for their views, then you are not as intelligent or widely read as you think. I applaud you for your objectivity, but to imply that every teacher is just like you is frankly idiotic. I know better because I've seen it personally and I've done the research as well. I'm sorry you're offended but there's a real world outside of your own well-run classroom that doesn't subscribe to your way of doing things.

[mrblonde17]

Of course there are bad teachers. We're no different than any other profession. I know people that get into education because of summers off. Those people don't tend to last too long. Most bad teachers get weeded out of a particular school district quickly. However, because there aren't enough qualified people joining the ranks, the bad teachers will always have a home in some district that is short on math and science teachers. English and fine arts teachers are a bit easier to find.

I know many teachers. My parents still teach. The majority of them are quality individuals that bring nothing but professionalism and objectivity to the classroom. There are many issues that need to be addressed in public education. Standardized testing is certainly one of them.

I'm interested in your "research" Travis. What do you do for a living and what kind of research was it?

[mrblonde17]

One more thing. We don't have a union in Texas. It's illegal for us to unionize.

Bummer!!

[Nbadan]

I'm interested in your "research" Travis. What do you do for a living and what kind of research was it?

Research for Travis means he probably read it on Newsmax or The Weekly Standard. Don't expect any real answers.

Fact is, the state and the feds have very stringent standards for the TAKS testing environment. Teachers don't test their own classes alone. All classroom materials, such as bulletin boards, and books must be covered or removed and all chalk boards must be completely erased. There is a required amount of class-room moniters present when testing materials are not locked up. All moniters are required to 'actively' observe the class being tested (no grading papers or reading books allowed).

If the State or the Feds catch a class-room moniter not following these requirements its not only their jobs on the line - its their certification. I would say that this is a pretty tough incentive for most teachers not to cheat.

Doesn't mean I'm pro-standardized testing, but just thought I would clear up some misconceptions that were floating around in this thread about the testing atmosphere.

[travis2]

Of course there are bad teachers. We're no different than any other profession. I know people that get into education because of summers off. Those people don't tend to last too long. Most bad teachers get weeded out of a particular school district quickly. However, because there aren't enough qualified people joining the ranks, the bad teachers will always have a home in some district that is short on math and science teachers. English and fine arts teachers are a bit easier to find.

I know many teachers. My parents still teach. The majority of them are quality individuals that bring nothing but professionalism and objectivity to the classroom. There are many issues that need to be addressed in public education. Standardized testing is certainly one of them.

I'm interested in your "research" Travis. What do you do for a living and what kind of research was it?

My "research" is personal, not academic. It consists of keeping track of news stories and my own personal experiences. And contrary to what those in the foil-hat crowd tell you, I don't depend on NewsMax or Weekly Standard, although I do hit the latter every so often. (At least I don't try to pass off random blogs written by drug-addled losers as primary sources)

My job is as an engineer. BS, MS, 20 years in the field, working on a PhD. Oh, and I'm still working...I'm not unemployed, I didn't quit to go to school, I wasn't forced into it. (That was to forestall the obvious slaps from the wackos around here)

I would agree with you that standardized testing is the easy way out. Unfortunately, you still need concrete standards to test against even without "standardized" tests. Again, that makes things hard for teachers. It sounds like you wouldn't have a problem with it. Would that the entire profession were like that.

Oh...BTW...what do you call the TSTA and TFT if not unions? Besides, I also said "other lobbyists". And the fight is not only in Texas, but nationally.

[NameDropper]

I think the problems with kids today can be traced back to when women started really joining the work force and kids stopped having the nurturing that a stay at home mom, or dad, had on their lives.
Now the race for the benjamins is more important.

[mrblonde17]

TSTA is a lobbying organization at best. They are for the most part toothless. It is against the law for public employees in Texas to have a union.