What exactly is the 2010 plan?

[lotr1trekkie]

I get that the FO wants to unload enough salaries to resign Manu & possibly extend Tony. After that-- what? I don't think any of the BIG names are coming here because we can't afford two 20 million plus players. Bosh, Wade and James ain't coming. What's left over in FA? Why not continue to improve this year and next as long as we can keep Manu & Tony? Tiago Splitter would be a great addition at a lot less $$? Buy out his damn contract from Tau! Assuming that we don't win it all this year[ which I don't], is the plan to just hang around till 2010 to retool?

[ss1986v2]

I get that the FO wants to unload enough salaries to resign Manu & possibly extend Tony. After that-- what? I don't think any of the BIG names are coming here because we can't afford two 20 million plus players. Bosh, Wade and James ain't coming. What's left over in FA? Why not continue to improve this year and next as long as we can keep Manu & Tony? Tiago Splitter would be a great addition at a lot less $$? Buy out his damn contract from Tau! Assuming that we don't win it all this year[ which I don't], is the plan to just hang around till 2010 to retool?

not that im an advicate of the 2010 plan (im not), but for the sake of argument, what would you have the spurs do with their team over the next two season? we only have the MLE to offer FAs (and we are getting closer to the tax line). and we have almost no assets to move in trades. so what should we do in the next two seasons?

[exstatic]

1) sign a FA
2) pick up "dumped" contracts in 2009 (Mo Almond situations)
3) pick up "dumped" draft picks in 2009
4) get in on big 3 or 4 way trades that may allow you to do 2 and 3 in 2010.

Tim is extended, Tony is under contract until 2011. Hill and Ian are still on rookie deals. They're good. Extend a 33 YO Manu for 2-3 years at MLE prices, sign Mase, fill out the roster.

[DPG21920]

1) sign a FA
2) pick up "dumped" contracts in 2009 (Mo Almond situations)
3) pick up "dumped" draft picks in 2009
4) get in on big 3 or 4 way trades that may allow you to do 2 and 3 in 2010.

Tim is extended, Tony is under contract until 2011. Hill and Ian are still on rookie deals. They're good. Extend a 33 YO Manu for 2-3 years at MLE prices, sign Mase, fill out the roster.

I would be shocked (and thrilled) if Manu signs for MLE money. I guess it depends on how he does when he is back. But even then I would expect him to get at least what he is getting now. If they Spurs can talk him into taking MLE money, I would be so impressed by Manu.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't think the 2010 focuses on the big name free agents. The Spurs will try and bring in who they can to visit to present the charade to the fans.

Realistically, they'll go out and try and sign 3-4 guys that are on the second tier to come in and play with Tony at that point (let's face it, Tim will be about done). And just like before, they'll have all that cap room and end up overpaying the market value for the acquisitions they make.

[ducks]

so if they sign manu for more the the mle will that be overpaying him?

[exstatic]

so if they sign manu for more the the mle will that be overpaying him?

More than the MLE? Yes, that would be overpaying. He'll be 33, and that's usually the beginning of the downward spiral for SGs. Think of him as a better than usual version of veteran guards we usually bring in.

[completely deck]

Depending on how he performs...

[TMTTRIO]

I think they let Manu go after his contract is up. I know he'll be older and somewhat declining but I think he can still contribute to some team and with him getting a better jumpshot and 3 point shooting he should still be useful.

[exstatic]

Depending on how he performs...

Think of how he's going to perform on the back end of the contract, the expensive years, when he's like 36 or 37.

[exstatic]

I think they let Manu go after his contract is up.

If he want's too much, then yes. If he's willing to go MLE or a bit lower, then you bring him back. It's like a Finley or Barry deal, without wondering if he's a fit in the system.

[DPG21920]

If he want's too much, then yes. If he's willing to go MLE or a bit lower, then you bring him back. It's like a Finley or Barry deal, without wondering if he's a fit in the system.

If he wants to test the market, I think he will get more offers than the MLE. But if they can lock him up before he hits FA, then that would be good. I have no idea what the Spurs FO is thinking, especially after hearing TP say this is the last year with the "core".

The interpretation on that one is still up in the air.

[Darkwaters]

I think they let Manu go after his contract is up. I know he'll be older and somewhat declining but I think he can still contribute to some team and with him getting a better jumpshot and 3 point shooting he should still be useful.

I doubt it. Manu will end his career as a Spur.

[TDMVPDPOY]

manu aint worth more than MLE...if he could get it from somewhere else, goof for him....

we need a legit big down low who can take over for tim, become the first option or the future of this franchise along with parker for the next 6-10yrs.....splitter wont be here in another 2 yrs or never.....so we have to play our cards right on signin a legit big in FA....or fukn get one through the draft and develop the fucker....IAN MAHINMI hasnt impressed me much.....

[024]

manu deserves at least the full MLE. as for the 2010 plan, it should be lebron james or bust. if lebron is serious about winning championships, a core of duncan, parker, lebron, +ginobili is unstoppable. lebron wants to win, so try to name one other team with enough cap space to sign him that can offer a better core. he might go to a bigger market team, but the spurs gives him the best chance of winning.

[MaNu4Tres]

I would be shocked (and thrilled) if Manu signs for MLE money. I guess it depends on how he does when he is back. But even then I would expect him to get at least what he is getting now. If they Spurs can talk him into taking MLE money, I would be so impressed by Manu.

Considering the fact Manu has been underpaid the past 4 years, I expect Manu to be rewarded with an extension for at least 10-11 million per year.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't think the 2010 focuses on the big name free agents. The Spurs will try and bring in who they can to visit to present the charade to the fans.

Realistically, they'll go out and try and sign 3-4 guys that are on the second tier to come in and play with Tony at that point (let's face it, Tim will be about done). And just like before, they'll have all that cap room and end up overpaying the market value for the acquisitions they make.

People thought Tim was done 2 years ago. The way Tim doesn't rely on his athletism, I could see Tim being just as effective til hes 37. That is if he wants to.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if we get lebron?

high possibility splitter would come over here than dwell in europe

[SenorSpur]

What wrong with the intent of this plan? Thinking that the way in which you build, replenish and reload your team is through free agency. Look at our core Big Three players. Were any of them signed via free agency? No. Free Agency is a good strategy for adding complimentary players. However STARS must be drafted and developed from within. Something the Spurs haven't done since 2001.

[timvp]

The 2010 plan will depend on what happens the rest of this season. If Manu comes back like Manu, I expect he to be extended for two years and between $20-25M total. If RMJ keeps it up, you have to put aside some money for him. Same with Mahinmi.

But if Manu comes back hobbled, RMJ comes back down to earth and Mahinmi never materializes, I could see the Spurs letting all three walk and blowing it up.

The 2008 plan was extended to the 2010 plan after the Spurs won the 2007 championship. Let's hope the Spurs decide to extend it a few more years after another deep run. Building around Duncan, Manu, TP, RMJ, Hill and Mahinmi from 2010 forward may be the way to go. That has a chance to be more than enough talent if all six of those players stay healthy and play as well as possible.

[JamStone]

if lebron is serious about winning championships, a core of duncan, parker, lebron, +ginobili is unstoppable. lebron wants to win, so try to name one other team with enough cap space to sign him that can offer a better core. he might go to a bigger market team, but the spurs gives him the best chance of winning.

LeBron wants to be the #1 guy on a team that wins a championship. He doesn't want to road the coattails of a championship team. He will still only be 25 years old and he's going to want to continue to score 30 ppg. The Spurs is not a realistic possibility at all. He's staying in Cleveland or going to New York. Those are the only two options.

[SpurSupremacist]

Have Manu come back, if he plays well and you can get a talented young big like Aldridge or Oden(huge long shot, probably untouchable), then you do it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the spurs should go after amare hahahaha fuck....

[angelbelow]

if we get lebron?

high possibility splitter would come over here than dwell in europe

if lebron comes, fuck splitter, LET him rot in europe.

besides everyones gonna want to sign with us for cheap so we can choose out of the proven big men here.

[barbacoataco]

Manu might go back to Europe to finish his career.

[tp2021]

Gist!

[manufor3]

manu is better than the mle, and you all know it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

so if they sign manu for more the the mle will that be overpaying him?

They'll have his Bird Rights, he's not part of that equation.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

manu deserves at least the full MLE. as for the 2010 plan, it should be lebron james or bust. if lebron is serious about winning championships, a core of duncan, parker, lebron, +ginobili is unstoppable. lebron wants to win, so try to name one other team with enough cap space to sign him that can offer a better core. he might go to a bigger market team, but the spurs gives him the best chance of winning.

Ugh. James isn't coming here. Neither is Wade. None of the big name FAs will that year until the glamor market teams have used up their cap room.

[exstatic]

manu is better than the mle, and you all know it.

We're talking a contract for 2010 to 2013 or maybe 2014. That would put him at age 33 to 36 or 37. You don't break the bank for guards that age. Not even for Manu.

[exstatic]

They'll have his Bird Rights, he's not part of that equation.

Using my ducks AI translator, I don't think he's asking IF they can pay him that much, but SHOULD they pay a 33 YO Manu that much.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Using my ducks AI translator, I don't think he's asking IF they can pay him that much, but SHOULD they pay a 33 YO Manu that much.

I suspect that if they can bring in some strong talent in 2010, he'll be happy with taking the scraps and being a super sub.

If they whiff like before (when they went after Kidd and O'Neal) and are facing giving $3 million a year to stiffs like Vaughn, I suspect he'll want and deserve more than a low ball offer.

Our experiences with Bowen this year should give anyone pause to giving long term deals for swingmen that will be going into their mid to late thirties, of course Pop's still got a hard on for Finley at this point in time so one can easily see him paying Manu some nice coin.

[angelbelow]

the ginobili situation is a classic case of rationality vs emotions imo.

i love ginobili to death and i attribute our 05 championship and he is my favorite spur (approaching all time for me.) The Manu Ginobili, 03-10 version is vastly underpaid and we all know it.

but he is 33 and if i were a businessman, i would not invest a 10+ million contract on him after 2010. i cant help that he was underpaid, but im not going to overpay because of that fact alone.

[SpursFan0728]

the ginobili situation is a classic case of rationality vs emotions imo.

i love ginobili to death and i attribute our 05 championship and he is my favorite spur (approaching all time for me.) The Manu Ginobili, 03-10 version is vastly underpaid and we all know it.

but he is 33 and if i were a businessman, i would not invest a 10+ million contract on him after 2010. i cant help that he was underpaid, but im not going to overpay because of that fact alone.

I think 10+ million is too much, but I think if Spurs were to offer him a contract, it has to be over the MLE (just because Spurs underpaid him during his last contract)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

the ginobili situation is a classic case of rationality vs emotions imo.

i love ginobili to death and i attribute our 05 championship and he is my favorite spur (approaching all time for me.) The Manu Ginobili, 03-10 version is vastly underpaid and we all know it.

but he is 33 and if i were a businessman, i would not invest a 10+ million contract on him after 2010. i cant help that he was underpaid, but im not going to overpay because of that fact alone.


Actually what's probably going to happen is that we will whiff on all the big name FA talent, and then we will see a redux of the DRob situation where they try and low ball him, he balks, Don Harris mounts a 'pay the man' crusade on the news, and then Holt Cat caves and gives him what he wants.

[AFBlue]

All the Manu in 2010 talk may be irrelevant if he comes back healthy and produces....

They were reportedly going to talk contract extension with him prior to the injury and Olympics. So if he can prove to stay healthy, I think they may re-open negotiations.

All you can hope for is that the Spurs make the same appeal to Manu that they made to Duncan....take less in 2010 to give the FO a chance to go after a BIG name.

[TMTTRIO]

I can see some Euro team coming after him after his contract is up and offering some crazy deal to end his career over there. I could see Manu ending his career back over in the Euroleague again.

[MarHill]

First of all.....Manu will be re-signed once his contract is up. Unless he is severely injured again....but this surgery on his ankle will have him healed.

Also, because of his intangibles (clutch performance, toughness, and fearless attitude) you keep him. There are very few players like him in the league (Kobe, D-Wade) he stays on your team.

Next, the Spurs will sign him for more the MLE! They will have to. They have gotten value from his current contract...but they know he will get paid for his next contract and deservedly so.

And by having only TD and TP under contract after 2010 and having his BirdRights...Manu will get the most money from SA!!

I know as fans (and society in general) we are so ready to discard the old and get onto something new...but when something works and continues to work....you stick with it until it doesn't work anymore.

Plus, when the REAL BIG 3 are healthy they can beat any team in the league (that includes the Lakers and the Celtics) in a 7 game series.

One of the mistakes the Bulls of the 90's and the Lakers of this decade was pulling the plug too soon (the Bulls) and players (Kobe & Shaq) breaking up from within.

I don't want the Spurs to make that same mistake just because some fans are ready for something new!!

[exstatic]

Actually what's probably going to happen is that we will whiff on all the big name FA talent, and then we will see a redux of the DRob situation where they try and low ball him, he balks, Don Harris mounts a 'pay the man' crusade on the news, and then Holt Cat caves and gives him what he wants.

Since Manu's current contract will count like 200% on the cap until his situation is resolved in 2010, your scenario has 0% chance of happening. They'll have to resolve Manu one way or another, by signing him to an extension or making him item #1 in 2010 to even have the cap room to chase a big fish.

[Rynospursfan]

Why would Manu's current contract count like 200% on the cap? That doesn't make any sense.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why would Manu's current contract count like 200% on the cap? That doesn't make any sense.

That's how the collective bargaining agreement works.... unless they renounce him.

:stirpot:

[exstatic]

Why would Manu's current contract count like 200% on the cap? That doesn't make any sense.

Read up on the CBA. They do that so that you can't both have cap room and use Bird rights to resign all of your own FAs. If teams could do that, they would let all of their contracts expire in one year, sign FAs up to the cap, and then re-sign their own FAs to MAX deals. To truly have someone completely off your cap, you must renounce their rights, which means they become like a FA from another team, no Bird rights, and you must use your cap room on them or sign them to minimum deals. However, the minute you sign the player to a new contract, the salary for that contract becomes their actual cap figure. Only expired contracts hold the penalty. I think that's why they've already signed Tim to his extension, and have been working towards extending Manu.

[ducks]

They'll have his Bird Rights, he's not part of that equation.

spurs may have his bird rights but spurs will notgo much over the cap to sign him also

[ducks]

Using my ducks AI translator, I don't think he's asking IF they can pay him that much, but SHOULD they pay a 33 YO Manu that much.

see

[lotr1trekkie]

I can't believe the # of posters that have Manu washed up a 33 and willing to let him leave unless he agrees to a MLE. He deserves to finish his career here and get paid his value. He is and always will be twice the value of a Cory Maggettie who got 10 mill plus. From what I gather it sounds like working out an extension before he becomes a FA is the way to go. If his ankle is sound the rest of this season the FO will offer a 3 year extension at more than he gets now. OK FA wonks----who will be available[besides Lebron, Wade, and Bosh] who will be available in 2010? Can we realistically pay more than 8-10 mill a year for any FA and hope to hold on the core which by that time will include Hill, Mason and hopefully Mahimni?

[dbestpro]

Manu will take less for extended years. 7-8 mil per year for 3 or 4 years sounds about right.

[exstatic]

I can't believe the # of posters that have Manu washed up a 33 and willing to let him leave unless he agrees to a MLE. He deserves to finish his career here and get paid his value. He is and always will be twice the value of a Cory Maggettie who got 10 mill plus. From what I gather it sounds like working out an extension before he becomes a FA is the way to go. If his ankle is sound the rest of this season the FO will offer a 3 year extension at more than he gets now. OK FA wonks----who will be available[besides Lebron, Wade, and Bosh] who will be available in 2010? Can we realistically pay more than 8-10 mill a year for any FA and hope to hold on the core which by that time will include Hill, Mason and hopefully Mahimni?

It's a business. The Spurs almost let DRob walk in 2001. They DID trade Ice. Players don't always finish with their identified team.

It's a cold hard fact, but most SGs have left 90-95% of their game on the floor by 33. Manu could be effective for maybe 3 years because of his 3 pointer, but that's it. By that time, he'll probably look a lot like he did in the Laker series, with no "recovery" in sight. He'll pretty much be a spot up shooter with some Barry like tendencies.

[benefactor]

I think RMJ and Hill are going to work out nicely from a depth perspective. This is going to help us tremendously going forwards. We will probably be looking at close to MLE money to extend Mason if he continues to impress. If we decide Mason is expendable, I would like to make a push for Joe Johnson. If Mason gets re-signed, I'd like to see us go after Bosh.

Honestly, I don't see us making a huge splash in free agency in 2010. I think Manu will be extended for 3 more years and Mason will be given a long term deal. Mahinmi will probably be out of the equation and Gist should be a part of the team by then and hopefully developing into a SF/PF force. I see us taking the rest of our money and bringing in solid role players via free agency or trade to help us finish out the TD/TP/Manu era.

[stxspurs]

James White!................................uh I Mean Gist!

[Texas_Ranger]

Will Kevin Willis be still available then?:hat

[Tully365]

I don't see Lebron or Wade going to San Antonio, but the one star I hold out hope for is Bosh. He was born and raised in Texas, and he has a mentality that seems in line with the Robinson/Duncan tradition. The prospect of being for Duncan what Duncan was for Robinson is at least something that could appeal to him, along with the idea of returning to his home state. I also don't think Dirk is out of the question. I think, unlike LeBron, he'd prefer S.A. to the bigger, more pressure-packed cities like NYC and L.A.

My guess is that by 2010, Mason will be considered a solid, better-than-average veteran, and Hill will be considered one of the better defenders in the league. Proving once again that the Spurs are extremely good at evaluating talent.

[stxspurs]

i really hope bosh signs here....i thought he would stay in toronto cuz of oneal...now that he sees he is injury prone, im sure he might be looking to bounce out of canada

[duncan228]

Add me to the Bosh crusade. I've always liked his game and think he'd be a great fit for us.

[stxspurs]

i dont see bosh going to NY.....lebron is there wish, i see him there, there is no way he stays in cleveland. idk about wade. he just might want to go for the ring instead of the cash. if we dont get bosh, i think we go for good surround cast like joe johnson,Kelenna Azubuike,Udonis Haslem,Travis Outlaw....etc
but i think thier first concern is resigning Mason and Ginobili for sure

[silk]

spurs FO will certainly go after Bosh, they already went after kobe before manu.. and it's a good thing, then again maybe mahnimi pan out and we refuse to sign bosh to save some money for ian^^

[barbacoataco]

It might be interesting to speculate, but who knows where the Spurs will be at the end of the 2010 season. But I would be all for Bosh, and also think he is the only chance to score a big FA.

[DMX7]

Unless new york wants to pay him max, I'm sure he'll resign.

[tomtom]

how much capspace will the spurs have in 2010?

[BradLohaus]

i think we go for good surround cast like joe johnson,Kelenna Azubuike,Udonis Haslem,Travis Outlaw....etc

That sounds right.