McDonald: How Does Manu Change The Rotation?

[duncan228]

This is from McDonald's game blog. I put the whole piece in our game blog but I thought this might part be of interest.

HOW DOES MANU CHANGE THE ROTATION? (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/spursworld/2008/11/gameday_spurs_vs_grizzlies.html)

Someone will lose playing time with Manu Ginobili back. Ginobili and Roger Mason Jr. primarily play at the same spot and Mason has been playing well. Michael Finley also plays some there. On the other hand, that makes it easier for Spurs coach Gregg Popovich to avoid overworking any of those players over the course of the season.

More minutes will go to Tony Parker when he returns. With Parker and George Hill at point guard, Mason now getting action at that spot and Ginobili capable of playing point, you wonder if Jacque Vaughn sees his playing time evaporate. Vaughn didn't play Friday against Utah and didn't see action in the first half tonight.

Could the situation trickle up to the small forward spot? If the Spurs go with three-guard lineups, you wonder if Finley, Bruce Bowen or Ime Udoka find their game time shrink a little.

Tonight, young guard Blake Ahearn found himself inactive and watching from the sidelines wearing a sportcoat.

[ducks]

less mike

[Spurtacus]

It gives up some serious depth!

[mystargtr34]

less mike

Hes been on fire lately. I think well see him at SF quite a bit backing Bowen, ahead of Udoka.

[ducks]

mike is old he needs less minutes

[mystargtr34]

He wont be playing more than 25, which is fine for him.

[SequSpur]

finley is kicking ass. udoka hasn't done shit...

[texbound]

finley is kicking ass. udoka hasn't done shit...

Completely agree. Finley is playing so much better than he did last year. Ime seems to be searching for his shot and looks like he's pressing when he gets out there. Finley will cool down as the season wears on, but you have to go with the hot hand for now.

[DROB4EVER]

Manu will cut into Fin and Hills mins. When Parker gets back Hill will likely only see 10mpg unless we go small alot.

[weebo]

Manu will cut into Fin and Hills mins. When Parker gets back Hill will likely only see 10mpg unless we go small alot.

No way Hill only sees ten minutes of action. This guy can flat out ball.

[benefactor]

Vaughn will be in a sport coat beside Ahearn...that is...if Ahearn is still around.

Its really not rocket science. Parker and Mason will probably start. Hill and Manu will come off the bench as the second unit(or vice versa, Parker/Manu...Hill/Mason). Finley will rotate between SG and SF while Manu and Mason will split time at PG when Parker and Hill are both on the bench. As for Udoka, he is going to be the odd man out if he doesn't step it up. He will be replacing Bonner in the doghouse if he continues to play like he has.

[T Park]

Manu will cut into Fin and Hills mins. When Parker gets back Hill will likely only see 10mpg unless we go small alot.

No way, Hill if playing well will get time.

[Tully365]

Hill's D is too good to keep him off the floor. I think he'll get 15 mpg at the point & 6 mpg at SG alongside Tony.

[xtremesteven33]

Weird thing is that it seems like Mason plays better as a PG than a SG. He seems to be a better shooter when hes creating his own shot than catching and shooting.

well see....

[m33p0]

* we'll be seeing a lot of 3 guard lineups.
* hill be playing 20 minutes or more. he is too good to be given limited minutes.
* bowen and udoka will be the ones to suffer most especially if finley continues to show he is still capable.
* vaughn will be kept as an insurance policy.
* ime is disappointing so far. is he trying too much instead of just playing ball?
* now if only the Spurs could have this kind of problem at the front court...

[mystargtr34]

Parker 32
Mason 26
Manu 26
Bowen 20
Fin 20
Hill 20

That gives you 144 minutes between the 1,2 and 3.

[mystargtr34]

I dont think Hill will be getting 20 a game throughout the season

[ducks]

I dont think Hill will be getting 20 a game throughout the season

but but but he is a hall of fame dude now

[HarlemHeat37]

I think it'll just depend on the team we're playing against..

Finley and Bowen can mix the minutes at the 3, depending on the situation and whether we need more offense or more defense..

I'd still like to see a trade for a SF to split minutes with Bruce, since Ime just doesn't do it..

[AFBlue]

Udoka has been disappointing thus far this season. I picked him to be a "breakout" player for the Spurs and thus far it hasn't materialized.

I think it's more than likely he gets pushed out of the rotation as long as Fin keeps delivering. Udoka might still get some burn when the matchup calls for "smallball defense" though.

And Vaughn is out of the rotation for sure. About the PG situation, I think one of Vaughn or Ahearn will eventually get the axe (money on Ahearn). I would hope this leads to the signing of Hairston, but I'm not sure the Spurs would be in a rush to fill that 15th spot.

[Manufan909]

I dont think Hill will be getting 20 a game throughout the season

I hope he does, and I'd really like him to play more than every guard/SF but Tony, Tim, and Mason. I wonder what % of his minutes Mason could spend at SF. I know he'd be more comfortable at SG, but I can't think of another way to free up time for Hill to get all the PG minutes TP doesn't.

[homer]

Vaughn will be in a sport coat beside Ahearn...that is...if Ahearn is still around.

Its really not rocket science. Parker and Mason will probably start. Hill and Manu will come off the bench as the second unit(or vice versa, Parker/Manu...Hill/Mason). Finley will rotate between SG and SF while Manu and Mason will split time at PG when Parker and Hill are both on the bench. As for Udoka, he is going to be the odd man out if he doesn't step it up. He will be replacing Bonner in the doghouse if he continues to play like he has.

I like your take the best, I see Finley starting in place of Bowen alot depending on how much we need defense at the SF spot. Pop loves them both but finally is realizing that we need more from the SF position than just defense. With bowens poor shooting so far and Fins good shooting so far, we may see Bowen riding the pine alot more. IMO, We will Have a lot better team on those back to back games that have been plaguing us the last couple of seasons. Our bench is much improved and could start on a lot of teams. Keep it up Spurs. :lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt2:

[timtonymanu]

the rotation without Parker should be:
Mason/ Hill
Finley/ Manu
Bowen / Ime
Duncan / Bonner
Oberto/ Thomas

with Parker:
Parker/ Hill
Mason/ Manu
Finley/ Bowen
Duncan/ Bonner
Oberto/ Thomas

[E20]

Starting lineup:
TP
Mason
Bowen OR Finley
Duncan
Whoever

Manu and Hill come off the bench to back up Mason and Tony. Finley or Bowen come off the bench to replace each other.

[Kori Ellis]

Udoka shouldn't be in the rotation at all when Tony returns. They should just put him on the trade block for a vet big.

I'd imagine that there will be about 150 minutes available for the points/wings (144 minutes for the three spots plus a few small ball minutes), once Manu and Tony are back in game shape.

At that point, for the rest of the regular season the minutes will probably run...

Parker - 30-32
Ginobili - 26-28
Bowen - 25
Mason - 25
Hill - 22
Finley - 18

If Finley cools off, then you just give more minutes to Mason and Hill.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I really don't think they'll need Finley's offense from the SF position once Parker and Manu come back and are fully acclimated. Just like every other issue they have right now it might take awhile to see how much the injuries had to do with the weaknesses.

[Manufan909]

Udoka shouldn't be in the rotation at all when Tony returns. They should just put him on the trade block for a vet big.

I'd imagine that there will be about 150 minutes available for the points/wings (144 minutes for the three spots plus a few small ball minutes), once Manu and Tony are back in game shape.

At that point, for the rest of the regular season the minutes will probably run...

Parker - 30-32
Ginobili - 26-28
Bowen - 25
Mason - 25
Hill - 22
Finley - 18

If Finley cools off, then you just give more minutes to Mason and Hill.

Very nice. I'd personally have Hill, Bowen and Fin at 25, 20, and 20. I want Bowen and Fin to fight over the scraps, everyone else should get priority of those 2.
But I'd almost like TP to play 33-35 minutes, you think he has the stamina for it?

[xellos88330]

Ah yes, this thread defines one thing for me. Spurs are deep.

[Deimosfobos]

Ah yes, this thread defines one thing for me. Spurs are deep.

Actually, what this thread defines is that Spurs are lucky and spoiled.

[Manufan909]

Actually, what this thread defines is that Spurs are lucky and spoiled.

The drought at PF/C evens it out.

[mystargtr34]

Very nice. I'd personally have Hill, Bowen and Fin at 25, 20, and 20. I want Bowen and Fin to fight over the scraps, everyone else should get priority of those 2.
But I'd almost like TP to play 33-35 minutes, you think he has the stamina for it?

Parker could play 40 minutes, but its in the Spurs best interest to limit minutes as much as possible for everyone.

Provided Bowen hasnt actually lost a couple steps, he'll likely be on the court for longer than 20 minutes most nights. Hes still the Spurs best perimeter defender.

Some nights he'll play 35, others 15.

[Quasar]

Looks like we now have a "Big 4", with the 4th being manned by committee: Mason + Hill.

Wonder if a small-ball team consisting of the following players would work :
Tony (1) + Hill (2) + Manu (3) + Mason (4) + Duncan

Mason does not seem strong enough to play the 4 though, but I suppose he can't do worse than Finley!

[johngateswhiteley]

Vaughn will be in a sport coat beside Ahearn...that is...if Ahearn is still around.

Its really not rocket science. Parker and Mason will probably start. Hill and Manu will come off the bench as the second unit(or vice versa, Parker/Manu...Hill/Mason). Finley will rotate between SG and SF while Manu and Mason will split time at PG when Parker and Hill are both on the bench. As for Udoka, he is going to be the odd man out if he doesn't step it up. He will be replacing Bonner in the doghouse if he continues to play like he has.

yep.

[igruex]

I really wonder how can you guys give Hill 20 min once Tony's back, without limiting Tony to less than 30 min a game.

I don't think they could ever be in the floor at the same time.

Oh, and Ahearn is going to be waived soon. That shows that not even Pop predicted that Hill would be this good.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Lots of good takes here, any of which could come true.

I'd just like to make one point - why play Manu more than you have to? IMHO he should average no more than half a game unti lthe real season begins around the AS Break. Keep him fresh - injuries to Tim or Tony aside, he is the key to this team winning in the playoffs.

[igruex]

I'd just like to make one point - why play Manu more than you have to? IMHO he should average no more than half a game unti lthe real season begins around the AS Break. Keep him fresh - injuries to Tim or Tony aside, he is the key to this team winning in the playoffs.

We all agree on the important of Manu being healthy for the playoffs, but how do we determine how many minutes those should be to meet the optimal for Manu. How do you bench him that much time for such a long season? (the only way to convince him to come from the bench was to guarantee him his minutes, and even that, wasn't permanent).
Pop shouldn't use a rule, it has to be adjusted for, and during, each game. That's called a discretionary policy.

I'm a bit tempted to guess that when Parker comes back, and the rotation's established; Bowen's minutes would continue to be greatly reduced (except for a few teams with deadly guards). Ime, as well, will get less than 10 minutes if he doesn't turn upside down his game, and I don't see that happening at all. We'll see a lot of Mike and Roger playing SF. I can see Bonner (if he continues to play like he'd been) and Mahinmi fitting very well. One spreading the floor, the other providing the athleticism we lack.

The depth of the roster is amazing this season. Pop needs to figure out how to have Manu and Mason on the floor at the same time. That's the only thing that didn't look good yesterday.

[urunobili]

Manu no more than 20 min a game would be freakish for the Playoffs... and a booster for Mason and Hill's developing...

[Brazil]

He won't accept IMHO less than 20 min until the playoffs

[mathbzh]

Do you prefer Parker/Manu as starting unit with Hill/Mason coming of the bench or Parker/Mason and Hill/Manu?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Sadly, I'm starting to give up on Udoka. He's just not fitting in right now.
I agree with Kori, put him on the block and look for a big.

[urunobili]

Sadly, I'm starting to give up on Udoka. He's just not fitting in right now.
I agree with Kori, put him on the block and look for a big.

would you rather have Watkins back instead of Ime on the roster?

[Galileo]

We will have great depth. CIA Pop will vary the minutes, depending on who we play and what the matchups are. Expect to see wide variations between games of minutes played for our tweeners.

[jman3000]

matchups, matchups, matchups.

You also have to account for different players going through hot/cold streaks over the course of the season.

[Galileo]

matchups, matchups, matchups.

You also have to account for different players going through hot/cold streaks over the course of the season.

That's a good point. Pop will leave players in who are playing well. The best plan is a open-ended plan. We can win the NBA crown with this team.

[Indazone]

Get ready...here it comes.


SMALLBALL!!!

[Spurs Brazil]

Udoka shouldn't be in the rotation at all when Tony returns. They should just put him on the trade block for a vet big.

I'd imagine that there will be about 150 minutes available for the points/wings (144 minutes for the three spots plus a few small ball minutes), once Manu and Tony are back in game shape.

At that point, for the rest of the regular season the minutes will probably run...

Parker - 30-32
Ginobili - 26-28
Bowen - 25
Mason - 25
Hill - 22
Finley - 18

If Finley cools off, then you just give more minutes to Mason and Hill.

Agree with this one. Ime is a good guy but I think all Spurs fans expected more from him, especially on D.

I think he's out of the rotation