Is it inevitable that one of Hill or Mason will be moved for a sf?

[spursfaninla]

I am not saying soon. But I don't think it works to have so much talent in the 1 and 2 positions, when we are deficient in the 3 and 5.

If Udoka and/or bowen just played like he did last year, we are fine this year at SF. Unfortunately, I am thinking that unless we see some significant improvement, they are too much of a drag for the playoffs, and definitely for next year...

Kt is still recovering, or so they say. I am afraid we put a big dime into an old man and lost that bet.

We can't give minutes to all 4 of our very good back court players is the dilemma. Granted, Ghill will need some time, but I would say by next year he deserves 30 minutes a game. So do the other 3. Those minutes do not exist unless we play a 3 guard lineup, which is just too small to be successful over a season.

The only answer is to groom them, and probably trade either Mason or Ghill. I would assume Ghill goes, because Parker will stay a peak player longer than manu, and mason can also play pg as well.

Enjoy these guys while we can, this is the best back court in Spurs history.

[lebomb]

Ummmmm NO......if anyone goes it will be Udoka or Vaughn. Hill has too much upside............and Mason has been more than expected.

[z0sa]

Hill is an SG in the NBA at best, and only for stretches. He'd get destroyed at SF.

Mason has the ability, but bigger SF's will overpower him if he's forced to do it on a night to night basis.

[rascal]

Manu should be traded for a top big. The spurs could go with Parker Hill Mason and Vaughn in the backcourt with Duncan and another quality bigman.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Inevitable is a very inaccurate word to use. I actually don't see either one of those getting moved.

[Allanon]

If Mahinmi doesn't show up soon, I am quite positive the Spurs will have a big trade/signing before the deadline. Either that or they'll try to tank the season.

[lurker23]

If Mahinmi doesn't show up soon, I am quite positive the Spurs will have a big trade/signing before the deadline. Either that or they'll try to tank the season.

Why would they try to tank the season when they were able to go .500 largely without Manu and Tony?

As far as the OP goes, I think we will see some stretches of three-guard lineups throughout the year. Bowen or Udoka will be brought in if additional size is needed on defense, but I fully expect several minutes a game (if not more) where we see Tony/Hill/Manu or Hill/Mason/Manu or Mason/Manu/Finley, etc., on the court at the same time.

[MoSpur]

Neither of those two would be moved. They might move Bonner, Thomas, Finley, Fab, Vaughn for a small forward, but not Hill or Mason.

[xtremesteven33]

Manu,Parker,Hill,Mason more than makeup for the shallowness at the 3 spot. Im not concerned about that.


WE NEED A BIG!!!!

[hoopdreams11]

we can get a SF as a free agent Outlaw and Ariza will be free agents soon

[Bruno]

A Parker (or Hill), Ginobili and Mason lineup will work well against most of the teams.

[FromWayDowntown]

Trading Manu would be asinine unless you can get an All-NBA type player, which isn't likely given Manu's salary and teams' understandable reluctance to move those sorts of players. You don't trade exceptionally talented players for less talented players who fill perceived needs -- if you do, you don't expect to compete for titles.

[ChumpDumper]

After all the small ball this team has played over the years, this is a particularly strange question.

[tmtcsc]

If Mahinmi doesn't show up soon, I am quite positive the Spurs will have a big trade/signing before the deadline. Either that or they'll try to tank the season.

(Presuming your a Laker Fan because of your sig)
You crack me up. The Spurs are your biggest nightmare and will wipe the Lakers out of the playoffs if we get to meet up again. Enjoy all your good health and fat regular season wins while it lasts. You're going down once the real season starts.

Manu Ginobili is going to bitch slap sasha if Trevor doesn't do it first. Its payback time brutha ! :ihit

[Allanon]

(Presuming your a Laker Fan because of your sig)
You crack me up. The Spurs are your biggest nightmare and will wipe the Lakers out of the playoffs if we get to meet up again. Enjoy all your good health and fat regular season wins while it lasts. You're going down once the real season starts.

Manu Ginobili is going to bitch slap sasha if Trevor doesn't do it first. Its payback time brutha ! :ihit

Yes, I am a Lakers fan.

I just don't think the Spurs can win a Playoff series against the larger Western teams without help for Tim. Portland, Dallas, Houston, and Suns will be particularly hard.

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw, Yao/Scola/Landry or Dampier/Dirk/Diop, Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.

[z0sa]

zosa i think he means trading the two..not putting them into those positions

Ah. Always skimming here at work puts me in bad positions :wakeup

In a word, no. Mason is here for this season minimum. Hill has the ability to back up Tony better than anyone he's had since Speedy, which is been one of our biggest problems.

[K-State Spur]

Yes, I am a Lakers fan.

I just don't think the Spurs can win a Playoff series against the larger Western teams without help for Tim. Dallas, Houston and Suns will be particularly hard.

Dallas ceased to be a major threat (unless the Spurs just lay an egg) when they traded for Kidd.

The Suns might be big up front, but they still have 3 TERRIBLE defensive players on the court most of the time. Doesn't matter than Porter has changed their philosophy.

Houston and the Lakers are going to be tough no matter what the Spurs do.

Unless some team decides that they really like Bonner and/or Thomas' expiring deals after next season, I think it's most likely that this will be the Spurs team for the remainder of the season, with maybe a very minor move here or there.

The team may have deficiencies at the 3 & 5, but if you move Hill/Mason - then you create two equally big deficiencies (4th scoring option & back-up PG).

[mudyez]

first of all, I dont see a major trade comming and I like how solid our FO stays...the SF-spot shouldnt be a problem, as we shouldnt have a problem playing manu or finley there for more minutes, than some might think...(if you dont go against artest, lebron or melo most SF should be guardable and if I recal correctely mason guarded lebron in te playoffs too)...come playofftime we will need bruce or udoka to play at peak level anyway, or we are done

...the bigger problem will be the 5 spot, or at least another 4 to help inside...so lets play around a little bit...

(btw. I could see the spurs trading hill just to delete some mistakes like the bonner contract)

option #1:
....damit...I really tried...I really did...there just isnt a team, which doesnt allready posess a PG-project (rose, harris, augustine,...) + has a wothy bigg (orlando?, milwaukee, minesota) + doesnt play for the ship right now (therefore no interest in getting a rookie to run the show)

just couldnt find something I like with a basic package of hill+bonner+(vaughn/finley/thomas)...best thing was another trade with the supersonics but collison or wilcox dont have deals our team will like and they also have westbrook at PG

...guess we have to hope mahinmi and bonner can help a little, kurt is ready come plyofftime and hill hasnt already stopped growing!

[DROB4EVER]

Mason Manu and Hill will not be moved! If we cant upgrade by trading vaughn, KT Bonner or Berto then we will likely sit on our roster. The SF spot is in better shape then the center spot right now.

Finley and Mason with Bowen will hold down the fort, wouldnt be suprised to see the spurs go after stackhouse who is on his way out of Dallas. Carney from Minn would be a great fit.

The teams in the west who can hurt us have more size up front so that is what we need to go after....get another big.........Gist could have really helped at the 3 this year.

[z0sa]

...guess we have to hope mahinmi can block/alter some shots + board, bonner continues his hot shooting and great defense both on his man and his rotations, kurt is ready come plyofftime like usual and hill hasnt already stopped growing!

FIFY

[DROB4EVER]

Yes, I am a Lakers fan.

I just don't think the Spurs can win a Playoff series against the larger Western teams without help for Tim. Portland, Dallas, Houston, and Suns will be particularly hard.

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw, Yao/Scola/Landry or Dampier/Dirk/Diop, Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.

They only team that could be us now is LA in a 7 game series. Houston is weak and Artest seem to wanna be the star not the third wheel. Jazz cant play D....NO is overrated big time, they have no backup pg and they dont look good in the open floor. The Suns are a Dog who will slow down after the All Star break, Dallas cant win with its current roster and Portland is way to young.

Ian can be the diff between beating LA or not. If Ian can give us 8 and 8 with a couple blocks or at least changes shots we will be fine, yet I would not be surprised to see SA deal the rights to Splitter for help now. Same he didnt come over ...he would have given us a clear edge

[ehz33satx]

I am not saying soon. But I don't think it works to have so much talent in the 1 and 2 positions, when we are deficient in the 3 and 5.

If Udoka and/or bowen just played like he did last year, we are fine this year at SF. Unfortunately, I am thinking that unless we see some significant improvement, they are too much of a drag for the playoffs, and definitely for next year...

Kt is still recovering, or so they say. I am afraid we put a big dime into an old man and lost that bet.

We can't give minutes to all 4 of our very good back court players is the dilemma. Granted, Ghill will need some time, but I would say by next year he deserves 30 minutes a game. So do the other 3. Those minutes do not exist unless we play a 3 guard lineup, which is just too small to be successful over a season.

The only answer is to groom them, and probably trade either Mason or Ghill. I would assume Ghill goes, because Parker will stay a peak player longer than manu, and mason can also play pg as well.

Enjoy these guys while we can, this is the best back court in Spurs history.


I seriousy doubt you have the basketball acumen that Coach Pop has, so instead of thinking too hard about it, just kick back and enjoy the games.

[fyatuk]

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw, Yao/Scola/Landry or Dampier/Dirk/Diop, Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.

You think Dampier and Diop actually need to be guarded? Dirk's the only one of those three that needs effort to defend.

[kobyz]

we definitely need a big man who can help Duncan, Thomas/Oberto/Bonner/Toliver are not enough, they are too slow, short or old.
hopefully Mahinmi can be the help Duncan need mostly on defense against the top big man duos in the league.

[z0sa]

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw

See last season's PO's ; identical rosters, older shaq, malcontent Amare, useless diaw


Yao/Scola/Landry

Not really fearing them


Dampier/Dirk/Diop, Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.

Dirk is the only one who plays on O, we won't play Portland in the playoffs and it took a monster game from them to beat us by a basket at their house

[honestfool84]

I seriousy doubt you have the basketball acumen that Coach Pop has, so instead of thinking too hard about it, just kick back and enjoy the games.


this goes for a lot of the fans here.
im just saying, i think Pop knows what he is doing; definitely more than the way we think he should be doing it, that's for sure.

[K-State Spur]

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw

That's somewhat evened out by the fact that Shaq & Amare (and Nash) can't guard anybody. Look at the past series, the Spurs have never remotely shut down Amare. But they can latch onto to PHX's shooters, Parker owns Nash, and PHX still has too many holes in their defense to get enough meaningful stops.



Yao/Scola/Landry


Scola and Landry are nice players, but neither is un-guardable by any stretch of the imagination. They COMBINED for 12 points in the first meeting between these 2 teams.



Dampier/Dirk/Diop


Oh yeah, Diop & Damp are just monster offensive threats...



Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.


Pryz and Oden (as of RIGHT NOW) are very limited in what they can do offensively. Aldridge and Frye do the majority of their work outside of the paint (tangent: Is there a worse rebounding 6'11+ player in the league than Aldridge?). I mean, this group hasn't even made the playoffs yet.

So, pardon the Spurs if they're not going to blow up the entire thing based on these match-ups yet.

Every team (with the exception of your Lakers) that has multiple offensive threats in the post that might give the Spurs problems, also has major flaws elsewhere where the Spurs have a huge advantage.

[spursfaninla]

Looking at my post starting the thread, I agree that the 5 is actually a bigger worry than the 3.

However, we have put more money into the 5 spot already.

People, you are not recognizing the coming problem that WILL have to be dealt with: If Ghill and Mason continue to play this well over the next year, it will be a waste of talent to not play them 30 minutes a game. A three guard lineup means you better have some pretty good defensive front court players to make up for the lack of height at the 3. Having 1.5 good defensive players at the 4 and 5 is not good enough.

Second, no one is going to give us a worthwhile 5 for our role players (Kthomas, Oberto, Udoka, Vaughn, Finley), without putting in ghill or mason.

I don't have the answer this year; I am just predicting if the three guard lineup fails in the playoffs b/c our front court is not good enough, I think the coaches have to face facts and package one of our excellent back court talents with some expiring contracts and get a GOOD defensive big.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Either that or they'll try to tank the season.

This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read from Allanon. Usually you come off as a fairly knowledgeable poster, but then you slip in lines like this periodically that makes me feel like you are full of doo doo. Redeem yourself man!

[Joe Schmoogins]

for the record, I would not trade hill or mason for a 3 or big... at least not right now. I'd wait and see if Mahinmi pans out, which he very well could, and that would solve a lot of our problems at the 5. Also, I'd stick with what's been working for the best three championships and that is Bowen at the 3. We don't need him to light it up, but now that we have multiple scorers in the back court, he has hardly any pressure to be an offensive threat and so he can focus entirely on defense. I am of the belief that he still has something left to give and would ride him out until the end of his contract. With Udoka and Finley backing him up, it is not exactly an all star lineup but it is SOLID. Udoka is a solid defender, and good rebounder, and Finley is a savvy offensive threat.

Like I said earlier, I would not trade either of them right now... However, if Mahinmi doesn't pan out, Bowen clearly shows he's done beyond a shadow of a doubt, and any one of Oberto, Thomas, Udoka, or Finley have season ending injuries, then if all three of those things happened, I'd try to make a trade.

[Anti.Hero]

Get rid of all of the bigs for one good one.

[The Truth #6]

They would be insane to get rid of Hill, especially because he's on a very affordable rookie scale contract.

Mason is also looking a pretty good deal right now for the contract we gave him.

Let's see what Ian does. And even if he doesn't explode right away I don't think that's still enough time to make a complete judgement on him. Some players take a little bit of time.

[Brazil]

This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read from Allanon. Usually you come off as a fairly knowledgeable poster, but then you slip in lines like this periodically that makes me feel like you are full of doo doo. Redeem yourself man!

I don't know why but Allanon strongly wants to see the spurs tanking the season. I think he knows that the lakers have no chance against SA. :lol

[sexinthatsx]

If spurs need a center, I they should try to trade for Anderson Varejao, Kendrick Perkins, or Darko

[z0sa]

I don't know why but Allanon strongly wants to see the spurs tanking the season. I think he knows that the lakers have no chance against SA. :lol

Right? I'm sorry Al, but any team with Tim Duncan has no choice but to dominate :smokin

Really, Tim would have a huge rift formed if it even SEEMED like Pop and the FO were thinking tank.

[mrspurs]

Manu should be traded for a top big. The spurs could go with Parker Hill Mason and Vaughn in the backcourt with Duncan and another quality bigman.

Make it happen. I like Manu but noway I trade TP or TD. If Manu is what it takes to get a solid big. Then by all means make it go. Question is who we gonna get in return ?

[mrspurs]

If Mahinmi doesn't show up soon, I am quite positive the Spurs will have a big trade/signing before the deadline. Either that or they'll try to tank the season.

I dont think they'll try. I think it may just come out that way. If we dont get a lottery pick. Then we dont get anything in the first round. And we can thank Kurt and the smart FO for that.

[Allanon]

In response to all the above about the opposing big men not being much of threats (too many posts to quote them all). You are all right, all those guys are pretty useless and shouldn't be mentioned with some of their court partners.

But my thoughts are they don't have to be regular big "threat".

KT/Fab are playing at such a low level that they made Darko look like an All-Star. Guys like Pryz can't score on a rock but I'll bet he lights it up against KT/Fab.

It's just not Darko:

Koufos got 8 points on 60% shooting, Milsap got 8 on 75%
Nene got 16 - 70%, K-Mart 18-65%


This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read from Allanon. Usually you come off as a fairly knowledgeable poster, but then you slip in lines like this periodically that makes me feel like you are full of doo doo. Redeem yourself man!

The tank the season comment is my only reasoning behind why Pop and RC won't do anything about the big man rotation. Those guys are winners and they know they can't win against the bigger teams if guys like Darko can kill them inside.

I think they're waiting on Mahinmi right now. And if that doesn't work, they'll be looking for a trade or signing for a different #5. They don't have to blow up the team, just get somebody instead of KT or Fabs.

And if they don't, it makes no sense to me at all. So the only sensible solution to me is that they don't care about this season.

[Darthkiller]

spurs need Batuuuuuuum

[TDMVPDPOY]

you dont get rid of something thats working

trading away hill or mason now is going to fuck up if you are trying to attract FA's, THIS IS NOT HOW THE SPURS OPERATE, business ethics my man, spurs FO value ppl as assets....

if splitter had came over, we wouldnt even have this discussion....

[Kori Ellis]

The shooting guard and small forward positions are virtually interchangeable for the Spurs. In fact, they just refer to them as "wings". So if we've got shooting guards, then we pretty much have small forwards.

Sure, it would be nice to have a tall, athletic small forward, but Bruce Bowen isn't exactly that either and he's been playing SF for years.

I guess my point is that they will need bigs far sooner than they will need wings.

[Jahivah]

Mason and Ginobli can both play the 3 spot. The immediate concern is a big man to play alongside TImmy. I honestly thing that legit big is what stands between us and competing for a championship.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Some people don't seem to know their team very well. Why would Pop uncover these guys then trade them? He's never done that in his entire history.

Cross your fingers that Mahinmi can play, or that Bonner's recent upsurge will give him value to someone, because Mahinmi or a bit-part trade is all you'll see this year.

[The Truth #6]

Gist should be on the team this year instead of Tolliver. That would help somewhat with having athleticism at the 3/4.

[xtremesteven33]

Gist should be on the team this year instead of Tolliver. That would help somewhat with having athleticism at the 3/4.



True dat

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Gist should be on the team this year instead of Tolliver. That would help somewhat with having athleticism at the 3/4.

Agreed.

I'm still not sure why he was sent to Europe.

As for trading Manu, Mrs Purs shows her wonderful acumen once again... :rolleyes

[Allanon]

I don't know why but Allanon strongly wants to see the spurs tanking the season. I think he knows that the lakers have no chance against SA. :lol



Right? I'm sorry Al, but any team with Tim Duncan has no choice but to dominate

I'm thinking for YOUR best interests :D Let's forget my "Laker bias" for a minute.

The Spurs have Superb Guard play and depth. They have the Superb Mr. Duncan.

But there are serious issues in the Frontcourt, not only is the Small Forward undersized, the Centers are really under-performing. This leads to the Spurs being #27 in the NBA in rebounds. There is no Duncan cloning facility except in Duncan228's dreams.

So I can't see the Spurs beating the Suns, Mavs, Rockets or Blazers with KT/Oberto going against their Big men...multiple offensive rebounds, new All Stars in the making.

Mahinmi, Trade/Sign, Fountain of Youth for KT/Fab or Bust.

[timvp]

Those minutes do not exist unless we play a 3 guard lineup, which is just too small to be successful over a season.

I think that is one of the most important questions that need answered once everyone is healthy. Can a lineup of TP, Manu and Mason survive against most matchups? If it can, the Spurs should be in great shape. If it can't, then Pop will have to get more inventive.

I think there's a chance it can work. I've been impressed when Mason has had to defend bigger small forwards such as Ron Artest and Al Thornton. Plus, Manu has had success against small forwards in the past such as Tayshaun Prince in the 2005 Finals.

It'll also be interesting to see what Hill does when matched up against shooting guards. So far, we've only seen him against point guards. If Hill shows he can also defend shooting guards and proves that he can continue to rebound well at the NBA level, that gives more flexibility.

If the situation arises that TP, Hill, Manu and Mason become by far the best four perimeter players by playoff time, I could see a scenario in which Pop condenses the lineup and just goes with a minute distribution such as:

TP 34
Mason 36
Ginobili 30
Hill 30
Bowen 14

That's smaller than we've seen in past years but it's not like the size of Bowen, Finley or Barry ever really came into play. Considering the Spurs have ignored the Long Three for the last half decade, it's pretty obvious they don't really care about size on the perimeter.

[duncan228]

There is no Duncan cloning facility except in Duncan228's dreams.

You mean this isn't possible? :depressed

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/oddsandends/Hemotivosig.png
Hemotivo's sig

[SpurSupremacist]

Make it happen. I like Manu but noway I trade TP or TD. If Manu is what it takes to get a solid big. Then by all means make it go. Question is who we gonna get in return ?

Aldridge and Martell Webster

[Allanon]

You mean this isn't possible? :depressed

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/oddsandends/Hemotivosig.png
Hemotivo's sig

You can't even resist a Duncan Transformer phone....

Hahah, I think you would be out of control with said cloning machine in your hands :D

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Hill is a good young player. Definitely attractive to other teams... particularly those who are building for the future.

I would love to see the Spurs deal Hill, Thomas, and a draft pick for Camby.

Can you imagine an interior defense of Duncan/Camby? Damn that would be something.

[Frenchise player]

Hill is a good young player. Definitely attractive to other teams... particularly those who are building for the future.

I would love to see the Spurs deal Hill, Thomas, and a draft pick for Camby.

Can you imagine an interior defense of Duncan/Camby? Damn that would be something.

I don't think you can deal Hill right now, he has just too much potential.
Camby could be nice but he is expensive and old.

[Capt Bringdown]

I don't see us getting past the Lakers with the bigs we got. A trade is necessary IMO, for a legitimate chance to grab a ring.

I hate to give up youth, it's a shame. But it's a matter of picking your heartbreak, I reckon. Oberto and Thomas mean post season trauma - we gotta do something.

[m33p0]

we just got 2 new shiny pieces with borderline all star quality and you're already proposing to trade them? gaddammit!

[rascal]

no way u trade ginobili and spect to get someone half way decent compared to him.+ Ginobili knows Pop system already.
you wanna trade Manu?you need to get at least a guy who can average around 19/5/5 ,and no less tham that.
Now,how many 19/5/5 NBA players can we get back for Ginobili at the same salary?

....Just to save you some time......NONE.

Who says it needs to be a straight 1 for 1 deal. You send out a package deal that includes Manu for a quality big man.

[rascal]

I don't see us getting past the Lakers with the bigs we got. A trade is necessary IMO, for a legitimate chance to grab a ring.

I hate to give up youth, it's a shame. But it's a matter of picking your heartbreak, I reckon. Oberto and Thomas mean post season trauma - we gotta do something.

Exactly. But you don't trade Mason or Hill. Those guys won't get you the impact player that manu would get back.

Hill looks like he will be a more than capable player that will be able to be a very good starting sg and also be able to play some pg. Mason also looks like he can play big minutes at the 2 spot so Manu is the best option for a trade to land a quality big. Manu in a month will have increased value so that would be the time to move him.

The spurs will not win a championship with the front court as it is now. They have redundency in the back court with 4 very capable quality starters and big deficiencies in the front court. Manu has a 2 or 3 year window of playing at a top level and he would bring back a higher quality big then either mason or Hill so its most logical that he would be the one to trade.

You have to let go of your sentiments for certain players and see whats best overall for the team to win now and in the near future and getting a top big is paramount to being able to compete in the playoffs with the Lakers, since thats the team to beat.

[ducks]

so rascal you would trade ime and manu for ?

[John_C]

I couldn't help get flabbergasted at some posters here. Spurs perform well and you want to trade them right away because you foresee the team still lacking against other team.

Moron! We've been lacking against so many teams even during our championship runs yet we made do with what we have. So many people here want to play coach, GM, and ultimate fan at the same time.

[Kori Ellis]

Since TP has been in the league, we have been dying for a real option at the backup point guard spot. (Speedy's handful good games as a Spur don't count). Now, the Spurs have one, and people want him on the trading block. :wtf

It's never going to be an equal balance of greatness at all five spots. If the Spurs can roll this deep at the point/wings, plus have Duncan, they can be lacking in other positions.

[John_C]

Since TP has been in the league, we have been dying for a real option at the backup point guard spot. (Speedy's handful good games as a Spur don't count). Now, the Spurs have one, and people want him on the trading block. :wtf

It's never going to be an equal balance of greatness at all five spots. If the Spurs can roll this deep at the point/wings, plus have Duncan, they can be lacking in other positions.

I guess whenever we just don't win a championship many just feels like they could do a much better job running the Spurs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Since TP has been in the league, we have been dying for a real option at the backup point guard spot. (Speedy's handful good games as a Spur don't count). Now, the Spurs have one, and people want him on the trading block. :wtf

It's never going to be an equal balance of greatness at all five spots. If the Spurs can roll this deep at the point/wings, plus have Duncan, they can be lacking in other positions.

Yes I agree, teams have strengths teams have weaknesses, I know ESPN might give the impression the Lakers are perfect and unstoppable at every position, but a team with Derek Fisher and Halfpipe Radmanovic in their starting lineup obviously has weaknesses. The one deal I think the Spurs should make (indifferent point of view) is Vaughn, Bonner, Mahinmi Bowen and Udoka 4 Brad Miller if the Kings agree to buy Bowen out and Bowen knows this is coming and he will want to resign with SA. Problem is, this isn't NBA 2K9, so we have no idea whether Sac will want to do that or not.

Same thing for Marcus Camby, but I like Miller more idk why. Kaman would be a horrible fit next to Duncan.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I guess whenever we just don't win a championship many just feels like they could do a much better job running the Spurs.

lol, all those fans who were screaming about signing that unknown Roger Mason Jr. instead of Posey for double the years and 4x the money or drafting that undersized scrub George Hill over Mario Chalmers sure were right.

[daslicer]

Yes I agree, teams have strengths teams have weaknesses, I know ESPN might give the impression the Lakers are perfect and unstoppable at every position, but a team with Derek Fisher and Halfpipe Radmanovic in their starting lineup obviously has weaknesses.

Radmanovic to me is really a poor mans version of Hedo with the choking abilities. One of the things that was frustrating about the WCF last year was this bitch playing out of his ass. I knew it was a fluke performance and that he would dissapear against boston which proved correct. Spurs were very unfortunate to catch this guy when he was on hot streak. With Dfish I get the impression he's going to break down sooner or later ala Horry but I can't predict when. Its only a matter time before he becomes washed up like Horry he's reaching that age.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Make it happen. I like Manu but noway I trade TP or TD. If Manu is what it takes to get a solid big. Then by all means make it go. Question is who we gonna get in return ?

Yes, after Manu looks more explosive than he has since 2005 tonight, trade his ass.....seriously though, did you just trade Manu for a big in your fantasy league or something?

[spursfaninla]

The reason the Spurs SYSTEM worked in past years, with an middling to sometimes deficient Center?

Bruce Bowen and Duncan together made this team defensively.

We have to start to acknowledge that Bruce is slipping. The team needs to make up for that by improving the Center position. Kori, your comment about the "wings" being interchangeable only applies on offense; more importantly, this team needs EITHER a big sf, or a decent center to make the defense work.

And I love how some fans are making out like the Front Office is brilliant b/c of Mason and Ghill; better lucky than smart sometimes. This was one of those times; they did not realistically foresee this kind of development from our new acquisitions. But rather than dredge up the follies they did make, I will be thankful for what they gave us.

Don't get me wrong: I AM ECSTATIC that Ghill and Mason are playing well, and I would like to keep the team together for sentimental reasons.

I am just saying...TimvP broke down the minutes with more than 30 minutes for each of the 4, but can those 3 guard units defend? As in, Spurs Basketball defend?

Answer this, anyone: What team, playing a 3 guard unit (I am talking playing 3 guys under 6'7, with regularity, for a season, has EVER won a championship? Maybe I am historically lacking, but I can't think of one after Wilt dominated the league.

I am not hitting the panic button until I see how we do in the playoffs. Maybe Udoka straightens out, Kthom and Oberto rebound, and Bowen finds the fountain of youth.

Our guards have been rebounding especially well, so maybe that makes up for it. But so far, we are averaging 42 rebounds a game, and the lakers, (for instance) average almost 10 more.

Keep an eye on the redundant assets the team has (through luck, essentially) gotten this time, and be smart in how we use them.

[HarlemHeat37]

we can EXPLOIT other teams with our backcourt..

I don't want to see Mason or Hill traded, they're a huge asset to this team..they give us the best backcourt in the NBA with Manu, Tony and Finley..that's a major advantage we're going to have against other teams..

I would love to see some type of move to bring in a big that can rebound and block shots, but not at the price of giving up our backcourt depth..a lot of you are overrating the rest of the teams in the West..

[Kori Ellis]

more importantly, this team needs EITHER a big sf, or a decent center to make the defense work.

The Spurs won with combinations of Nazr/Rasho/Oberto at center and no big SF.

Oberto/Thomas/Mahinmi are probably the same thing.




Answer this, anyone: What team, playing a 3 guard unit (I am talking playing 3 guys under 6'7, with regularity, for a season, has EVER won a championship? Maybe I am historically lacking, but I can't think of one after Wilt dominated the league.

2005 Spurs, 2007 Spurs

... if you call Bowen/Manu/Tony a 3-guard unit. Bowen is about 6'6.

[VaSpursFan]

no way do you trade hill or mason. they haven't even been in the system a year and get it. imagine how much better they will be next year AND they give us a much needed infusion of youth.

[spursfaninla]

Kori, now you are not really being fair. Bruce is listed as 6-7, manu at 6-6, and everyone says Bruce is taller than manu...

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, now you are not really being fair. Bruce is listed as 6-7, manu at 6-6, and everyone says Bruce is taller than manu...

Bruce might be an eyelash or two taller than Manu, sure.

I'm just saying that Bruce isn't a tall SF. Tall small forwards are 6'8 and up. The Spurs haven't made it a priority to get one in years. So they must not value height at that spot.

[timvp]

Another reason to keep Hill is that even though Parker is young, he has a ton of NBA mileage on him already. Look at players like Tracy McGrady and Shawn Kemp to see what happens if you burnout a player who's been in the NBA since they were a teenager. If Hill continues to progress, he could allow TP to only average ~30 MPG and that would help extend TP's career and allow him to rest up for the playoffs.

Hill has also shown an ability to play off the ball. A lot of times when he's in with Mason (or Manu in the last two games), he plays away from the ball. It'll be damn interesting to what TP and Hill can do together.

[spursfaninla]

Your point is fair, except that my point was that the current system worked BECAUSE bruce was special.

When Bruce and made up for not being tall with being a top defender, we did not need a good center. Bruce is starting to show his age, and can't last forever, and there is not going to be another Bruce Bowen defender that I see coming up.

Ghill looks like a great defender, but he is 5 inches too short.

I think for the Spurs defense to work, we have to have a plan b and C. Either a bigger SF or a better C.

Otherwise, we are giving up on D to maximize the talent we have on offense at the wings.

[VaSpursFan]

Another reason to keep Hill is that even though Parker is young, he has a ton of NBA mileage on him already. Look at players like Tracy McGrady and Shawn Kemp to see what happens if you burnout a player who's been in the NBA since they were a teenager. If Hill continues to progress, he could allow TP to only average ~30 MPG and that would help extend TP's career and allow him to rest up for the playoffs.

Hill has also shown an ability to play off the ball. A lot of times when he's in with Mason (or Manu in the last two games), he plays away from the ball. It'll be damn interesting to what TP and Hill can do together.

TP and Hill on he court at the same time will put all sorts of pressure on defenses because they both can drive and finish over the bigs, and hit the j. i can't wait to see that, to be honest.

[Kori Ellis]

Otherwise, we are giving up on D to maximize the talent we have on offense at the wings.

That's bound to happen. The Spurs will not be as good as they were defensively with Bowen and Duncan in their primes. Those are two of the best all-time defenders.

So that's what's going to happen. The Spurs will be a little worse defensively (and hopefully a little better offensively).

But the team defense will still be good, they aren't turning into the D'Antoni Suns. Bowen, who I don't think is washed up, can lose a step and still be better than most of the league. Manu is a good defender, Tony can be a good defender when he gets aggressive, Hill can use his length (not height, but length), Mason can be a good defender, and then there's a question mark in Mahnimi.

You don't need to balance out the team and lose your depth at the wings and the point, just to get some one who might be a notch up defensively at C.

[spursfaninla]

I agree that Tpark and Ghill make for an intimidating offense. Just like Dallas and Phoenix had a "small backcourt" duo that could be offensively a handful, we could have the same. But there is the potential for defensive liabilities; that only works if Ghill's freakish reach allows him to guard the 2 spot at those times.

I admit I am excited by the offensive potential we see, but it seems like an unbalanced team is not optimal, and we are looking VERY unbalanced.

[ChumpDumper]

We aren't looking VERY unbalanced.

And it's November.

[Kori Ellis]

Oh and rebounding must be overrated because the Mavs lead the league :lmao

[barbacoataco]

I think Thomas will play better as the season goes on. He is a veteran who has been around and knows how to pace himself. Plus I think he is still recovering from an injury. Thomas is good to have for teams that have 2 bigs that can score. With all the offense the Spurs have in the backcourt, plus Duncan, they don't need the 5 to score a lot.

[K-State Spur]

I say that we trade BOTH of them for a decent center, then turn around and move that center to shore up the back-up PG and find a wing who can be our 4th scoring option.

[Josepatches]

I would trade TP for a good center and a PG. It could be better for Hill and TP couldn't fit as well with the basketball we are playing now.At least I don't miss TP a lot in the last games and we are 7-2 without him and Manu did not play in the 2 lost games.

We have 4-5 good players in the backcourt.With Tony's return Pop can't give minutes for all.We don't have a good center and we have an old small forward....So we need to trade someone.
We can trade bad players for bad players or we can trade one of Manu-TP to get a good C and a good SF or PG.
And i think we could get better players for TP because he is younger.IMO Manu is better than the players you can get for him

[Kori Ellis]

I would trade TP for a good center and a PG. It could be better for Hill and TP couldn't fit as well with the basketball we are playing now.At least I don't miss TP a lot in the last games and we are 7-2 without him and Manu did not play in the 2 lost games.

We have 4-5 good players in the backcourt.With Tony's return Pop can't give minutes for all.We don't have a good center and we have an old small forward....So we need to trade someone.
We can trade bad players for bad players or we can trade one of Manu-TP to get a good C and a good SF or PG.
And i think we could get better players for TP because he is younger.IMO Manu is better than the players you can get for him

We know. We read your last 20 posts repeating the same thing. You want to trade TP. It doesn't matter how, when, why or for what reason. We get it.


TP couldn't fit as well with the basketball we are playing now.

It's the same basketball the Spurs have been playing for years. The system didn't change.

[anakha]

I would trade TP for a good center and a PG. It could be better for Hill and TP couldn't fit as well with the basketball we are playing now.At least I don't miss TP a lot in the last games and we are 7-2 without him and Manu did not play in the 2 lost games.

We have 4-5 good players in the backcourt.With Tony's return Pop can't give minutes for all.We don't have a good center and we have an old small forward....So we need to trade someone.
We can trade bad players for bad players or we can trade one of Manu-TP to get a good C and a good SF or PG.
And i think we could get better players for TP because he is younger.IMO Manu is better than the players you can get for him

Same shit, different thread.

[TDMVPDPOY]

im not missin tp at all, enjoyin the ball movement, the development of hill

[polandprzem]

They should sent TP to Bahamas for a week or seven.

[mystargtr34]

I actually cant wait for TP to get back to get this team to full potential right away. Theres so many combinations available to the coaching stuff its almost unfair.

[mrspurs]

Yes, I am a Lakers fan.

I just don't think the Spurs can win a Playoff series against the larger Western teams without help for Tim. Portland, Dallas, Houston, and Suns will be particularly hard.

Tony and Manu coming back will really improve the Spurs but neither of them can guard a Shaq/Amare/Diaw, Yao/Scola/Landry or Dampier/Dirk/Diop, Oden/Aldridge/Pryz/Frye.

Something we already know. And something we will work on before the deadline is over. We just hope they dont bring in another big who will sit on the bench during PO time. If we go out there with Tim and Fab or Tim and Kurt. Even thou our guards will fight to the end. We wont make enough stops in the paint.

[rascal]

The Spurs won with combinations of Nazr/Rasho/Oberto at center and no big SF.

Oberto/Thomas/Mahinmi are probably the same thing.




2005 Spurs, 2007 Spurs

... if you call Bowen/Manu/Tony a 3-guard unit. Bowen is about 6'6.

The Lakers are the team to beat now and much more improved. They are bigger than they were when the spurs won last time.

So the dynamics of what is necessary to win now has changed and the formula for success has changed. A weak front court will not get it done anymore.

[ducks]

The Lakers are the team to beat now and much more improved. They are bigger than they were when the spurs won last time.

So the dynamics of what is necessary to win now has changed and the formula for success has changed. A weak front court will not get it done anymore.

did not boston beat the lakers in finals and boston is the team to beat tell the are no longer champs

[MarHill]

that would be a stupid move. You don't trade any of the big 3 guys unless they wanna go.That's your team's foundation and they've been playing together for many years.
why would you throw away 5 years of work that gave you 3 championships????
it's like killing the golden eggs chicken.:nope


Thanks!

It's amazing to me that some spoiled Spurs fans want to trade Manu??????

:wow

[rascal]

did not boston beat the lakers in finals and boston is the team to beat tell the are no longer champs

The spurs will have to get past the Lakers first just to make it to the finals so they are the team to beat.

If the spurs get out of the west and to the championship they will win it.

[exstatic]

I say that we trade BOTH of them for a decent center, then turn around and move that center to shore up the back-up PG and find a wing who can be our 4th scoring option.

:rollin

K-S S, FTW.

[Brazil]

I think Thomas will play better as the season goes on. He is a veteran who has been around and knows how to pace himself. Plus I think he is still recovering from an injury. Thomas is good to have for teams that have 2 bigs that can score. With all the offense the Spurs have in the backcourt, plus Duncan, they don't need the 5 to score a lot.

+1 besides we have with TP an unexpected, for a guy of his size, contribution, he is making in the rim more points than a lot of centers.

[Fingaroll44]

I seriousy doubt you have the basketball acumen that Coach Pop has, so instead of thinking too hard about it, just kick back and enjoy the games.

LOL sometimes people just put it in words that i wouldnt use. A WHOLE lot of folks need to kick back and enjoy the games rather than over analyzing everything.

[Indazone]

Your natural trade partner the Houston Rockets. We have too many good forwards. You guys have too many guards. Hmmmm

[Fingaroll44]

we just got 2 new shiny pieces with borderline all star quality and you're already proposing to trade them? gaddammit!

Exactly!! It took us 5 yrs :wowto find a backup PG!! Not to mention he can play the 2 also. Mason can play the 1 thru 3. Last year it was: we are too old and have no slashers just jumpshooters. So we drafted a youngster and signed a blue collar utility guard and what was the response mostly?....George Hill who? Roger Staubach Jr? Whos that? POP SUCKS! The FO cant draft!! blah blah blah. Now the new season starts and everyone sees, HEY!! These guys are great. CIA Pop does it again :toast (2 seconds later) Lets trade one of them!! Yea!! Great idea!!:nope

Pop probably is all giddy on the inside thinkin of the different ways to unleash the weapons we have in the backcourt (Gino, Parker, Hill, & Mason). The way our roster is now we can match up w/ any teams perimeter players and if they want to go small we got that covered too.

[Fingaroll44]

And I love how some fans are making out like the Front Office is brilliant b/c of Mason and Ghill; better lucky than smart sometimes.


Are u serious!? Give credit where its due man. LOL U act like Pop and them put on a blindfold and threw darts @ the draft board. Pop IS brilliant in my estimation. Is he human? yes. Does he make mistakes? yes. But they did their homework here and came out golden

[lotr1trekkie]

Trade Manu--Quasimodo was smarter than that. Manu is actually the most unique player in the league. He is also younger than 2 of the three Boston stars and about the same age as the other. Actually, Mason makes Finley expendable and in two years Hill will be worth twice what he is now. Get real!

[Indazone]

hmm we can always trade you a Scola for a Manu?

[sonic21]

hmm we can always trade you a Scola for a Manu?

we gave you scola for nothing, we want him back for nothing too.

[Indazone]

lol..it'd never happen. Both teams like their respective players too much.

[Indazone]

Now Artest for Manu..that's something that might be interesting.

[mystargtr34]

The way artest is playing it would have to be Artest for Bowen.

If you want Manu it would probably cost you Scola + Artest + picks

[silk]

Scola and artest.. i think having them this year doesn't make the team better than with a manu healthy and hungrier than ever to play

They would have to learn the system, and the chemistry which is a important asset of the team wouldn't be as great...

And artest stops the offense, doesn't mesh well with our O..

And lastly character, i think it played a role for scola, even if it was not justified, and artest...he could be a good guy but we saw with roger and hill the importance of having pop kind of guy with pop to maximise their abilities


Rockets would be better with a true leader alongside T-mac though...

Shane battier and chuck hayes are more interesting players for us
( i wouldn't trade manu for T-mac obvisouly, still two years ago i would have painfully don't thought that..)

[silk]

we gave you scola for nothing, we want him back for nothing too.

Supposedly we gave you scola to save at least ten million dollars, so we want at least ten millions dollars back in return, fuck the cap space, give us yao...
( bonus, you will get some advices from pop ( or me ^^) next year in order to have you make even better choices..)


:downspin:

[mystargtr34]

Scola and artest.. i think having them this year doesn't make the team better than with a manu healthy and hungrier than ever to play

They would have to learn the system, and the chemistry which is a important asset of the team wouldn't be as great...

And artest stops the offense, doesn't mesh well with our O..

And lastly character, i think it played a role for scola, even if it was not justified, and artest...he could be a good guy but we saw with roger and hill the importance of having pop kind of guy with pop to maximise their abilities


Rockets would be better with a true leader alongside T-mac though...

Shane battier and chuck hayes are more interesting players for us
( i wouldn't trade manu for T-mac obvisouly, still two years ago i would have painfully don't thought that..)

I wouldnt make that trade, but thats probably what would be considered fair around the NBA.

[kace]

Considering Tim untradable, manu is surely more tradable than TP right now.

but the real question is : why so many people want to trade TP or Manu ? what do they need to do to be considered useful to this team ???? i mean, they're great, have a good mentality, are winners and clutch and are CHEAP. if you make a list of the ten (or five) best PG and SG , they're in. isn't it enough to be OK to keep them both ??

and having Hill and Mason is great too. let's keep them. We should be able to have a good frontcourt knowing we already have Duncan. no need for a trade of any of our best players.

[sonic21]

Considering Tim untradable, manu is surely more tradable than TP right now.

:wow no you didn't

CoM in 3 2 1...

[Indazone]

Scola for V-spam. :lol

heh you don't have V-span to trade anymore :lol

But tell ya what. How about Battier our glue guy for George Hill?

[exstatic]

heh you don't have V-span to trade anymore :lol

But tell ya what. How about Battier our glue guy for George Hill?

No, and also no to Manu for Artest. Don't try to dump your shit at our doorstep.

[Indazone]

yeah right...the Red Rocket for Scola? :lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What's up with these gay Rockets/Spurs trade ideas?
They have nothing on the block that would help us.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

maybe so, but they do have something on the boards and low post scoring that would help us.

How's that gonna help the Spurs if they're not available for trade ?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I guess you are taking this conversation realisticalist while me and Indazone were talking hipotetically and joking about it.
and BTW,everything is for sell.It just takes the right price to get it, that all.
Of course we're not getting scola for Bonner,I'm not stupid.
It would take more tham the red rocket to get someone like him.

Gotcha. :tu