Thoughts on our beloved Mavs tonight [Archive]

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:06 AM

Our beloved Mavs played well for stretches in the game, but ultimately lost to the red hot Lakers 114-107.

Terry had a great game, as did Kidd. While Dirk's 19/11 statline is "decent", I felt he didnt' really imprint the game. He didn't shoot horribly like last time, but he seemed invisible during alot of stretches. I also thought he took 2 bad shots during the Lakers 17-0 run.

I'm not terribly disappointed. It's the same old shit against the Lakers where we blow a double digit 2nd half lead, but the benches play was pretty encouraging.

I thought OVERALL, the Mavs played a good game. This game is better than some of the wins we had this year. The Lakers are just too good right now.

But I ponder, does this team miss JHO or is his production offset by the offense flowing better w/o him due to his ballstopping ways?

I think I miss JHo's 20/8 though, however "empty" it may seem at times.

AS mentioned by Findog in the other thread, the run coincided with Wright picking up his 4th foul, and George/Ariza coming in at the same time. I think based on youth/athleticism alone, Green deserves those minutes more than George. I think Carlisle will learn that, and has just been experimenting to see whether George is good for this team or not.

The perimeter shooting was solid tonight.

I just hope we don't let down against Sac-town tommorow. the 7 game homestand we will learn a lot about ourselves.

Allanon

11-29-2008, 01:10 AM

Good game to the Mavs, it's always an entertaining game when Mavs play the Lakers.

Mavs shouldn't think too much of this loss, they competed well in Staples against a pretty good Laker team.

Mavs are playing MUCH better now than earlier in the season.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:10 AM

Typical Mavs game against a good team. Hang tough for about 3 quarters, then piss it away and never come back. This team is what it is, and it's not going to change.

And this team is going to get worse when J-Ho gets back. There were times tonight where I've never seen the offense flow so smoothly, and he's going to fuck all that up.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:13 AM

Saying "good team" gives too little credit to the Lakers. This was a GREAT team and possibly the best in the NBA.

Saying "typical Mavs game" implies the Lakers don't do this to a lot of other opponents. Like I said, they did the exact same thing v the Spurs in the playoffs last season, and the other night where tied w/ the Nets with 18 minutes to go and lost by 27.

I know "moral victories" don't exist, but can't feel terribly about how the Mavs played this game. Lakers have been blowing out a lot of people, Mavs hung tough.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:17 AM

Saying "typical Mavs game" implies the Lakers don't do this to a lot of other opponents.

It doesn't imply that one bit. It expresses that the Mavs do this against good teams. They hang with them for 3 quarters and fade away. I don't give a shit what the Lakers do to other opponents, I care about what the Mavs are doing.

They had an 11 point lead and pissed it away in a nanosecond. Not even the Lakers are good enough to simply dominate a team like that, the Mavs did that to themselves with stupid mistakes and shitty defense. Again, typical Mavs.

Lakers have been blowing out a lot of people, Mavs hung tough.

Well maybe David Stern can craft us a nice "hung tough!" trophy.

sribb43

11-29-2008, 01:18 AM

My thoughts: Dick Breath still sucks

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:20 AM

It doesn't imply that one bit. It expresses that the Mavs do this against good teams. They hang with them for 3 quarters and fade away. I don't give a shit what the Lakers do to other opponents, I care about what the Mavs are doing.

They had an 11 point lead and pissed it away in a nanosecond. Again, typical Mavs.

Well maybe David Stern can craft us a nice "hung tough!" trophy.

If in your opinion this is due to the insertion of Devean George, then why should you be terribly upset? I expect Carlisle will eventually realize George doesn't belong on the court in favor of Green.

You give the Mavs little credit for their wins, and overreact to their losses.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:21 AM

You give the Mavs little credit for their wins, and overreact to their losses.

I'd say you overreact to their wins (all against subpar opponents), and give them far too much leeway when they lose.

If we're gonna play the Grizzlies and T-Wolves and Bobcats in the playoffs, I'd love how the Mavs are playing.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:22 AM

I don't overreact to their wins or losses.

The Mavs showed some good stuff tonight against the best team in the West, I feel better about this loss than the wins against the Grizzlies, Pacers, and Knicks.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:23 AM

I don't overreact to their wins or losses.

You threw out the "moral victory" card awful quick. With a side of "we hung in there!"

Vinnie_Johnson

11-29-2008, 01:25 AM

Just a road loss nothing more. Pistons went in there and pounded them then lost to the Wolves bad at home.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:25 AM

The Mavs showed some good stuff tonight against the best team in the West

and lost. Do they win or lose against the elite teams? They ALWAYS lose.

I'm sick of hearing about how good these other teams are. If they Mavs are a good team, they'll be getting a few of these wins.

Don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby. I don't wanna hear about how hard it is and how tough they fight, I wanna see a win.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:25 AM

I just like to look at the quality of basketball rather than wins and losses. I thought the qualities of the Mavs basketball was decent tonight, the Lakers frontline is just too big and Kobe was Kobe and it was in an arena we've done historically bad in.

It's a little discouraging, because it's obvious the Lakers are a better team than us, but I don't think the gap is AS big as many would think.

Maybe it's fool's gold though, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the Mavs let down in Sac-town tommorow.

I'll have developed a better opinion of this team after the 7 game homestand. Anything less than 6-1 or 7-0 during that will be extremely disappointing.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:26 AM

Just a road loss nothing more. Pistons went in there and pounded them then lost to the Wolves bad at home.

Pistons also have a ring.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:28 AM

and lost. Do they win or lose against the elite teams? They ALWAYS lose.

I'm sick of hearing about how good these other teams are. If they Mavs are a good team, they'll be getting a few of these wins.

Don't tell me about the pain, just show me the baby. I don't wanna hear about how hard it is and how tough they fight, I wanna see a win.

Define "elite". The only truly elite teams IMO right now are the Cavs/Lakers/Celtics. So yes your statement is true as we are 0-3 against these teams, but there's plenty more basketball to be played.

We have had some good wins against the Spurs/Rockets this year. Wouldn't consider them elite since Manu/Yao were out, but they were solid wins IMO.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:29 AM

Define "elite". The only truly elite teams IMO right now are the Cavs/Lakers/Celtics. So yes your statement is true as we are 0-3 against these teams, but there's plenty more basketball to be played.

We have had some good wins against the Spurs/Rockets this year. Wouldn't consider them elite since Manu/Yao were out, but they were solid wins IMO.

A fully healthy Rockets team is also elite. Which puts us at 0-4. And the Spurs were so awful that game isn't a "good" win, it's just a win that should be expected. The next game against the Spurs will tell a better story.

Findog

11-29-2008, 01:29 AM

We beat the Spurs w/o Tony and Manu, and the Rox w/o Yao.

Findog

11-29-2008, 01:29 AM

A fully healthy Rockets team is also elite. Which puts us at 0-4.

:lmao

That'll be the day.

But seriously, we suck.

sribb43

11-29-2008, 01:32 AM

The Mavs beat the teams their supposed to beat and lose to the teams their supposed to lose too....why should we be upset with them

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:33 AM

Tony played when we beat the Spurs.

ON a side note, not that I think the refs cost us the game tonight, but 8 personal fouls on the Lakers, I think that's kinda lame. even if we were a little complacent with the 3-PT shooting tonight.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:33 AM

They also shit the bed against Denver and Orlando. Maybe not elite, but both are very good.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:39 AM

I'm not gonna judge this team based on close losses in which Stackhouse, who seemingly won't see another minute this year, played.

I hope George quickly joins Stack.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 01:40 AM

I'm not gonna judge this team based on close losses in which Stackhouse, who seemingly won't see another minute this year, played.

I hope George quickly joins Stack.

So what happens when George never sees the light of day and the Mavs keep losing against good teams? You're quickly running out of scapegoats.

Bob Lanier

11-29-2008, 01:44 AM

Green deserves those minutes more than George. I think Carlisle will learn that
Ask one of the Pistons fans to explain the meaning of the term "Binary Man" sometime.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 01:46 AM

Who did I use as a scapegoat? George didn't cost this game by HIMSELF, but he sure as hell didn't help and it's just a TAD curious that the 17-0 run coincided with his insertion. I'm not making excuses for the loss, the Mavs just lost to a better team and a team they were supposed to lose to. We won't become better than the Lakers barring some sort of trade, and even then it's not likely... but why should I be terribly upset about that?

sribb43

11-29-2008, 01:47 AM

Blame the loss on Avery

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 01:56 AM

I wonder..what's the point of this team? Floating around in mediocrity..Cuban must love it.
I can already see the rest of the season barrring any changes...

Mavs dominate the average teams, maybe win a few against better than average teams. The media shits itself about the team getting it together, getting the system, blahblahblah.

Lose against the elite, in close games. Cue all the moral victory talk.

Maybe sneak into the playoffs and get promptly eliminated by a higher seed all the while still spouting lines of how "everyone is underestimating us" "we're a darkhorse" "we love our team" "JHo isn't a pot-smoking mental midget and we won't trade him for anyone" "Devean George has 3 rings. So we know he can play. Let's sign him again"
yadda yadda

Findog

11-29-2008, 01:57 AM

Findog

11-29-2008, 01:57 AM

Oh man, how would you like a starting backcourt of Quis and Devin?

sribb43

11-29-2008, 01:59 AM

http://www.82games.com/0809/QTR4S11.HTM

Checkout where our superstar ranks in 4th quarter scoring this season....its laughable

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 02:03 AM

This is a great first post. I'm not being sarcastic, I like your take. +1

Thanks

Oh man, how would you like a starting backcourt of Quis and Devin?

I'm glad we had the services of Austin Croshere cuz Quis wasn't a bible loving suckup to Avery.

sribb43

11-29-2008, 02:04 AM

Thanks

I'm glad we had the services of Austin Croshere cuz Quis wasn't a bible loving suckup to Avery.

Don;t forget about Anthony "Beetlejuice" Johnson who was dumped after 2 months into the season for a 2nd rounder

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 02:05 AM

^ yeah that's been disturbing. especially since if I'm not mistaken Dirk was T5 in the league last year in 4th quarter scoring.

Brickhouse even though you make some solid points I don't get what you mean by "what's the point of this team?". The point of the team from a fan standpoint is to watch them, cheer for them, go their games, buy their merchandise, etc etc, even if it'l likely end in heartbreak. If that vexes anyone too much, then they should root for another team.

I shall follow the Mavs even if to the gates of hell though!

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 02:09 AM

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 02:17 AM

Ugh! Frickin cynical Mavs fans!

It seems like the cynicism isn't due to the loss tonight, but rather due to past FO blunders, the fluky 2006 Finals we should've and deserved to win (just an opinion :D), the heartbreak of the first round loss to the W's, etc etc.

Shits in the past. Just gotta focus on the now. I see no reason to be overly cynical about how the Mavs played tonight, in a game many of us expected to lose regardless.

But everytime the Mavs lose, the cynicism built up from past frustrations resurfaces.

As for Dirk getting his head out of his ass, he has. 29/11 over the past 5 games before tonight. I think the 4th quarter scoring will normalize as the year progresses.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 02:23 AM

btw Findog, what's your name on d-m.com? I think I remember earlier you said you hda a sn on there, bt I forgot it.

Findog

11-29-2008, 02:27 AM

btw Findog, what's your name on d-m.com? I think I remember earlier you said you hda a sn on there, bt I forgot it.

I don't think I've ever posted there. I might've signed up for an account, but never active. I'm "MrFindog" on db.com

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 02:32 AM

Join! :toast

I think it's a good board.

Off to mourn the Mavs loss w/ binge eating:depressed:depressed

Let us hope our thoughts on the beloved Mavs tonight tommorow night will be better!

DrHouse

11-29-2008, 03:36 AM

Cuban needs to let go of this team in its current incarnation.

If you are not competing for titles you should be rebuilding. The Mavs have been stuck in limbo for the last two seasons. It's time to blow it all up and begin the rebuilding process. What the Mavs are doing right now just isn't fair to the fans IMHO.

Shank

11-29-2008, 10:19 AM

Eh...nice game. Carlisle won't hesitate to pull Dick Breath if he's not hacking it. As it is, he's still feeling out what he has on the roster. I think you put together his -16 with that unnecessary blow-up at the coaches and DB gets to sit a lot more than he wanted. What are you going to do, Dick Breath? Ask to be traded? Knock yourself out.

Maybe he'll get traded back to the LA. It's obvious that was the only thing on that motherfucker's mind last night. Sickening to see him waving to the Lakers bench and media people while the clock ticked down in the 4th. And then he has to go over and hug them all after the buzzer, while the rest of his team heads to the locker room. I know he played there and they're all his friends. But he has their cellphone numbers. He knows how to reach them. Don't do that shit after the other team schooled your ass in a big run through the 3rd and 4th quarters.

Faggot.

Shank

11-29-2008, 10:19 AM

Oh, and I almost forgot-

(obligatory George Hill mention here)

Darrin

11-29-2008, 11:51 AM

From what I saw, the Lakers mirrored the Mavs tempo and beat them at their own game by denying the passer a shot and as they scrambled, playing the passing lanes. They isolated on Kobe for 3 possession every five or so to keep the defense honest, and played a passing game at the rim to protect their shots.

Classic Lakers performance.

As for the Mavericks, they don't look good. Where's Dirk? He's finally scriveled into what they've been calling him for 10 years--soft and not a leader.

BUMP

11-29-2008, 12:17 PM

after last night's performance. ive realized that to pull the Mavs out of this little bungle that they've been in for the last 7 years, two things need to happen:

1. Cuban needs to go
2. Dirk needs to go

they are the only two constants that have been with the Mavs for this long period of time. We've made trades gotten freee agents to come in and out of the door, nothing works. all the Mav fans here arent fooled, they know "hanging with the best team in the league" wont cut it. if this was a 30 win team last season, then yeah, id be happy with last nights performance, but we've doing this for years. we've been "moral victory" champs forever, like FinDog said, these losses dont sting anymore, i expect them. its gotten to the point where it is just comical

but after the dissapearance in the 4th yet again by our "superstar", i am officially off the Dirk bandwagon, he just needs to leave.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 02:04 PM

The point of the team from a fan standpoint is to watch them, cheer for them, go their games, buy their merchandise, etc etc, even if it'l likely end in heartbreak.

That's what blind homers do. True fans cheer for the team through everything, but aren't afraid to voice their displeasure when it becomes obvious that the team is mediocre and the front office can't (or won't) change things.

monosylab1k

11-29-2008, 02:05 PM

but after the dissapearance in the 4th yet again by our "superstar", i am officially off the Dirk bandwagon, he just needs to leave.

I'm at the point with Dirk where I just expect him to pass the ball and brick rushed 3's in the fourth quarter. Anything more than that is just a pleasant surprise. Our go-to "money" guy in the 4th quarter is Terry, and unfortunately he runs so hot and cold you'll never know if he'll score 15 points in the fourth or shoot 0 for 10.

ElNono

11-29-2008, 02:28 PM

This Dallas team looks a lot like the Lakers team before the Gasol trade. They can overachieve in some games, and leave you asking yourself 'Why couldn't we play like this every game', and then stink up the joint with a lesser team and bring you all the way back to reality. I still remember the days, back a couple of years, when Mav fans knew going into any game in any arena that they could win the game. These days, it's sad to see stuff like "Well, we were supposed to lose that game anyways". Are you also expecting a quick playoff exit too?
The truth is that the Mavs do not have enough to win it all right now. And for a team that was so close to making it all the way, it's painfully obvious they need to move some pieces in order to get better. Both Stack and Breath can and should be moved at some point during the season. Obviously they would need to package somebody else, maybe JHo or Green. The problem is that the FO is in love with these guys, and that's a huge problem. Carslile is a good coach, but not a miracle worker.
I think the sooner Cuban gets his head out of his ass, the quicker this situation will improve.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 03:59 PM

BUMP that is some kneejerk bullshit.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 04:00 PM

That's what blind homers do. True fans cheer for the team through everything, but aren't afraid to voice their displeasure when it becomes obvious that the team is mediocre and the front office can't (or won't) change things.

Write a letter to Cuban then.

BUMP

11-29-2008, 07:17 PM

These days, it's sad to see stuff like "Well, we were supposed to lose that game anyways". Are you also expecting a quick playoff exit too?

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah.

BUMP

11-29-2008, 07:20 PM

BUMP that is some kneejerk bullshit.

i'll admit maybe a little bit.

but we still need to rebuild. we are still an above average team, but i think we are the Eagles of the NBA. sure they got to the Superbowl and almost beat the Patriots but that was a while ago and nobody sees them as a superbowl contender anymore.

this is the same reason why coaches who win championships or have success eventually have to go. many teams have improved in the West while we have merely gotten older

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 08:00 PM

I dunno my beloved friend, I just dunno.
We can start rebuilding next year, perhaps.

Not even 50 games after the Kidd trade, I think it's too soon. Even if we are stuck in a limbo of not bad enough to miss the playoffs but not good enough to win it all, I'd prefer that to a 50-60 loss season.

We see all of these young teams with potential... Grizzlies, Warriors, Blazers, Bobcats, Hawks, etc etc... there's only so many championships to go around, not all of these teams will become contenders... some will become perhaps what the Mavs were, a perennial playoff team lacking the "it" necessary to win it all.. and some might not even become good AT ALL.

Who is to say if we rebuild and stockpile on young talent and draft picks we will become contenders in 3-5 years? Do you see any up and coming Tim Duncans? Bryants? James? Bosh? I don't see anything of the sort that is attainable.

I would like to see this team try and get SOMETHING out of Stack though. Literally a BODY will do.

ElNono

11-29-2008, 08:24 PM

You could pry off a guy like Ben Gordon off the Bulls for a package of JHo and a bunch of other guys. Elton Brand was available for a while last year, and no move was made. We got Mason for pennies on the dollar and he's been surprisingly good so far. The thing is, if you stand pat, then you're going to have another 2 years of mediocrity (until 2010 when a bunch of max FA are available) instead of trying to shake up the team a bit.
Right now you have two useless players in Stack and George. JHo is a good player, but at this point he's got his head somewhere else. Might aswell move him.
But Donnie is too busy learning Chinese to bother. I wonder why Cuban can't see it.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 08:48 PM

Howard for Gordon is lateral. Gordon's skillset is too similar to JET's anyway.

At this point, unless a really good offer comes along, an objective should be turning some spares into a serviceable role player or a shooting guard.

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 08:56 PM

Howard for Kaman :hungry::hungry:

Jet is lighting it up without JHo.

mavsfan1000

11-29-2008, 08:58 PM

Kaman is not much better than Dampier if any. Jet as a starter is a liability on defense.

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 08:59 PM

Kaman is not much better than Dampier if any.

Oh I forgot that Erica is the second best C in the league

:rollin

mavsfan1000

11-29-2008, 09:06 PM

Oh I forgot that Erica is the second best C in the league

:rollin
My point is Kaman is not that good. Hardly any upgrade at Center while we lose a lot at SF.

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 09:18 PM

Your point equating Kaman to Erica Dampier is idiotic.

mavsfan1000

11-29-2008, 09:19 PM

Your point equating Kaman to Erica Dampier is idiotic.
It is obvious you hate Dampier. He is better than given credit. He is an average center as well as Kaman. Not a difference maker. We need to upgrade the 2 position. Mainly we need a slasher at the 2 since Kidd doesn't slash.

Brickhouse

11-29-2008, 09:30 PM

Are you fucking kidding me. Keep saying Kaman and Erica are equal, see who else backs you up on that.

Yeah yeah we need a slasher. We could also use a center who can actually catch the ball and finish around the basket.

You don't see Kaman as a difference maker, fine. Don't tell me he gives the same production as erica.

Ghazi

11-29-2008, 09:42 PM

mavsfan1000 is of the opinion that Josh Howard is a better player than Dirk Nowitzki, so any mention of parting w/ J-HO is blasphemy to him.

mavsfan1000

11-29-2008, 09:53 PM

mavsfan1000 is of the opinion that Josh Howard is a better player than Dirk Nowitzki, so any mention of parting w/ J-HO is blasphemy to him.
1. Nowitzki
2. Howard
3. Kidd. Our weakest position is the 2 guard. Our second weakest is the center spot. Howard is a better player than Kaman. I think I made my point. ;)

Findog

11-29-2008, 09:58 PM

Findog

11-29-2008, 10:00 PM

Kamen can score. Dampier can't.

mavsfan1000

11-29-2008, 10:31 PM

I'd rather have Kamen than Howard. Howard gets 16 and 5 of his 20 and 8 before halftime. The offense tends to flow better without his ballstopping ass, and Kamen would give us a real center. Asshole swingmen that can jack up brick after brick from outside are a dime a dozen in this league. Antoine Wright and Gerald Green can make up for everything we lose with Howard.
Kaman is putting negative efficiency on an already losing team. You have this grass is always greener attitude about players. The offense maybe different but putting Terry in the lineup hurts our defense. Howard is definitely a better defender than Terry. I think a defensive/slasher 2 guard would be ideal. Yeah if we can upgrade at center would be nice to but not giving up Howard for.

Findog

11-29-2008, 10:34 PM

I'm pretty sure Kamen's productivity is hurt by Camby and now Z-Bo's presence on that team. And Dunleavy is in the running for worst coach in the league, so I would like to think that Carlisle could use Kamen properly.

The Mavs have a choice: Go for broke and take on salary that runs past 2010 in an effort to win now, or blow it up and make cap space for 2010.

monosylab1k

11-30-2008, 12:28 AM

Kaman is not much better than Dampier if any. Jet as a starter is a liability on defense.

You've become such a fucking idiot, it actually brings me pain to read your stupid fucking posts.

monosylab1k

11-30-2008, 12:30 AM

Kaman is putting negative efficiency on an already losing team.

Kaman averages a double-double and is more than competent on the defensive end. Are you fucking serious with this bullshit? Do you even know who Chris Kaman is? I'm starting to think you have him confused with some shitty player like Desagana Diop.

Just so you know, Chris Kaman isn't Bill Wennington or Will Perdue or Luc Longley or any other shitty white center from the Bulls back when you rooted for them.

Tmac&Luther

11-30-2008, 12:32 AM

Did somebody really just say Kaman = Dampier. :lmao Kaman >>> Dampier. Dampier sucks. Kaman is actually a lost post presence on BOTH ENDS OF THE FLOOR. Right after Yao and Dwight he is right there around the top among that second group of centers.

Findog

11-30-2008, 12:43 AM

Kamen is putting up 14 and 10 on 57% shooting in a crowded frontcourt.

mattb_25

11-30-2008, 01:33 AM

Lol... there is no way you can say he is the same as damp thats such an insult to kaman. Seriously though I'm tired of Jho, I think hes been hurt more this year than Devin harris has an thats one reason we got rid of devin, because of his injuries....

And surprisingly Jho has missed MORE games than Devin... I seriously think that if we can trade his punk ass for Kaman we would be in much better shape. Clippers did good tonight without Kaman, so it seems like they could probably trade him. Here's hoping to we go and get that white boy. I HOPE YOUR READING THIS DONNIE YOU IDIOT!