Mario Williams

[stretch]

the guy is a beast. he and the texans have definitely been dishing out a big "fuck you" to all the people that trashed on them for that pick, as opposed to getting Reggie Bush.

[dirk4mvp]

Just think of how bad off they'd be if they drafted Vince Young :(

[stretch]

Better than if they drafted Reggie Bush

[IronMexican]

Better than if they drafted Reggie Bush

No. But yeah, Mario was definitely the better pick. I felt Lendale white was a better NFL RB than Reggie Bush would be, and so far, I am kinda right. I still hate Reggie bush for that fucking lateral.

[monosylab1k]

Just think of how bad off they'd be if they drafted Vince Young :(

Well they can certainly enjoy Mario Williams getting sacks since Sage Rosenfels tries his best to get the punting unit onto the field in record time.

[Spurminator]

I wish I had some ESPN video from the days after that NFL Draft. Man oh man.

[stretch]

No. But yeah, Mario was definitely the better pick. I felt Lendale white was a better NFL RB than Reggie Bush would be, and so far, I am kinda right. I still hate Reggie bush for that fucking lateral.

Bush is great as a special teams type player. He should learn to play reciever, because he will never really be an effective RB.

VY > Bush

[ATRAIN]

Well they can certainly enjoy Mario Williams getting sacks since Sage Rosenfels tries his best to get the punting unit onto the field in record time.

LOL I dont know who is better at it Sage or Matt. Sage did decent and didnt blow it on monday night. Lets see how Matt does against GB.

[ATRAIN]

the guy is a beast. he and the texans have definitely been dishing out a big "fuck you" to all the people that trashed on them for that pick, as opposed to getting Reggie Bush.

I said it from day one I was happy with the pick. I was never sold on Reggie as a premier back and now Slaton hs given us hope on the backfield, we just need that power runner now. VY yeah im happy we didnt get him. With the line we have he wouldnt stand a chance back there.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Bush is great as a special teams type player. He should learn to play reciever, because he will never really be an effective RB.

VY > Bush

Indeed. Well, except for the VY part.

The Jets are getting the same production out of Leon Washington as the Saints are with Bush. Chargers with Sproles.

And VY still has a lot to prove. From the looks of preseason, he was getting worse. Still early in his career, though. He wouldn't be the first QB to flourish after a few rocky years.

[leemajors]

I said it from day one I was happy with the pick. I was never sold on Reggie as a premier back and now Slaton hs given us hope on the backfield, we just need that power runner now. VY yeah im happy we didnt get him. With the line we have he wouldnt stand a chance back there.

ahman green!

[IronMexican]

Bush is great as a special teams type player. He should learn to play reciever, because he will never really be an effective RB.

VY > Bush

Exactly. Reggie can be a great special teams player, and a nice WR. But VY wont amount to shit in the NFL. I don't like either player, but I would take Bush over VY.

[dickface]

But VY wont amount to shit in the NFL.

*sniff sniff*

is that? hmmm....

*sniff*

yeah, i think it is, let me make sure....

"sniff sniff*

yep, that's definitely the smell of bitterness.

[IronMexican]

Not at all. I wanted the Raiders to draft him back in 2006, but with the Texans passing up Mario Williams opened up Reggie Bush for the Saints, and everyone knew the Titans were going to draft Vince with the #3 pick, if Oakland didn't move up from #7 to #3. I though Vince was going to be unstoppable in the NFL. I am happy we didn't move up, now. But, believe I was pissed that year, considering we passed up on Aaron Rodgers, and Jason Cambell the year before with the #24 pick. Although I am happy we didn't draft him, Micheal Huff didn't exactly pan out with that #7 pick. The right pick for Oakland that year was clearly Jay Cutler.

[to21]

I like Mario, he is a beast.

However (I know I'm gonna ripped for this), it's easier for him to succeed than someone who's playn RB or QB early on in their career. I'm not taking away from his talent and skill. He's measured on QB pressure, sacks, and tackles. While VY has to direct an offense and Bush has to put up TD's.

Either way, I think people in H-Town are happing with their pick....I know a lot of them weren't at first.

[MajorMike]

Ok, I agree with the fact that as of this moment... Mario is an obvious better choice than Bush (who was the REAL player in question, not VY). Mario is an absolute beast and I think he will be barring injury for some time.

Interestingly enough stats and opinions seem to change over time. When VY was winning ROY and Bush was looking spectacular in leading the Aints to the NFC Champ game, you wouldn't find many that would think so. I think it hard, at this point, to conclude Bush, or VY for that matter, could not end up being the obvious better pick. After all, it is injuries that keep them from looking better and one injury to Mario could spell the same in reverse. Plus, who is to say that the Titans would not still be a 1 or 2 loss team with VY at QB? Seriously, how many games has Collins WON for them? It is an amazing team, not amazing QB play.

All I'm saying is you can't base a conclusion to this on less than 3 years' work. After all, up until the playoffs last year, don't you think everyone would have agreed that the draft-day trade that sent Eli to the Giants for Rivers and picks that would eventually become Merriman, Kaeding and Oben was infinitely better for the Chargers? In the end, it still may be, but it sure looks great for the reigning SB MVP and his 1-loss team right now.

[ATRAIN]

Ok, I agree with the fact that as of this moment... Mario is an obvious better choice than Bush (who was the REAL player in question, not VY). Mario is an absolute beast and I think he will be barring injury for some time.

Interestingly enough stats and opinions seem to change over time. When VY was winning ROY and Bush was looking spectacular in leading the Aints to the NFC Champ game, you wouldn't find many that would think so. I think it hard, at this point, to conclude Bush, or VY for that matter, could not end up being the obvious better pick. After all, it is injuries that keep them from looking better and one injury to Mario could spell the same in reverse. Plus, who is to say that the Titans would not still be a 1 or 2 loss team with VY at QB? Seriously, how many games has Collins WON for them? It is an amazing team, not amazing QB play.

All I'm saying is you can't base a conclusion to this on less than 3 years' work. After all, up until the playoffs last year, don't you think everyone would have agreed that the draft-day trade that sent Eli to the Giants for Rivers and picks that would eventually become Merriman, Kaeding and Oben was infinitely better for the Chargers? In the end, it still may be, but it sure looks great for the reigning SB MVP and his 1-loss team right now.

The past 2 seasons everyone has been saying Mario was the better pick. VY won ROTY yes, he made a pro bowl (even though he was like 4th alternate) but its the old saying what have you done for me lately. He has gotten worse each season IMO and his mental issues are now in the open. I dont think he will ever be the same especially since he cant handle being booed and at the QB position the spotlight is on you. I have said this since day one but BUSH will never be a premiere back. He is great in the open field but grinding it out he sucks. In USC he had White, and now he have Duce. Like someone said he would be great as a reciever but as a primary back yeah Ill still pass. Mario is a beast and is getting better and will get better when they get another DE to compliment him.

[ATRAIN]

I think Super Mario is the only DE that could sack Brady Quinn however if that happened that would be disastrous to the world. Just the impact alone would cause the earth to explode.

[ATRAIN]

ahman green!

HA yeah he prob wont be a Texan next year.

[IronMexican]

I like Mario, he is a beast.

However (I know I'm gonna ripped for this), it's easier for him to succeed than someone who's playn RB or QB early on in their career. I'm not taking away from his talent and skill. He's measured on QB pressure, sacks, and tackles. While VY has to direct an offense and Bush has to put up TD's.

Either way, I think people in H-Town are happing with their pick....I know a lot of them weren't at first.

It's actually a lot harder to have early success as a DE than a RB. I can see that QB direction, though. Look at past running backs who came in and tore the league up: Adrian Peterson, Cadillac Williams, Ricky Williams, Ladanian Tomlinson. All those guys tore it up as rookies. And think of DE's that have done stuff early? Not too many to name. Maybe Demarcuss Ware and Julius Peppers, and that's about it. Most other ones take time. There are some top draft DE's who still haven't panned out like Gaines Adams.

[IronMexican]

And I think it's unbelievable for Mario to pick up all his moves and skill sets in what was only his second year in 2007.

[ATRAIN]

It's actually a lot harder to have early success as a DE than a RB. I can see that QB direction, though. Look at past running backs who came in and tore the league up: Adrian Peterson, Cadillac Williams, Ricky Williams, Ladanian Tomlinson. All those guys tore it up as rookies. And think of DE's that have done stuff early? Not too many to name. Maybe Demarcuss Ware and Julius Peppers, and that's about it. Most other ones take time. There are some top draft DE's who still haven't panned out like Gaines Adams.

Mario was actually scouted as the "next" Julius Peppers. The Texans front office was and has been trying to mold the DEF after the Carolina def of a few years back.

[stretch]

I dont think he will ever be the same especially since he cant handle being booed and at the QB position the spotlight is on you.

You see, I disagree with that. And I'm not saying all this because I'm a VY fan, but I would put money on it that EVERY player that gets booed for the first time, it has a massive effect on them mentally, many times similar to how it hurt VY. The only difference was that the people around him handled it in a very shitty manner, allowing things to get to the media that should have never gotten to the media, that ended up getting blown wayyyy out of proportion, such as the handgun and suicide crap.

Carrying a handgun on you doesn't mean anything. The suicide stuff first off should NOT have ever gotten to the media, and whomever the guy was that he spoke with about those things, should get fired because that stuff should be strictly confidential. Although I'm willing to bet that it was completely overblown as well.

Almost any human when going through tough times will allow the thought of suicide to cross their minds. It doesn't mean they are actually seriously considering it. I'm willing to bet that many people who post on this board can relate to that, perhaps even yourself included, I dunno. It just crosses through naturally, and he probably told his psychiatrist or whoever that doctor was, that it simply crossed his mind a couple times.

Now whether he will or will not recover remains to be seen. But I just feel that the whole situation was massively overblown, and had KFC not ended up playing so efficiently as the team was winning, that VY would have gotten his job back in a heartbeat.

[ATRAIN]

You see, I disagree with that. And I'm not saying all this because I'm a VY fan, but I would put money on it that EVERY player that gets booed for the first time, it has a massive effect on them mentally, many times similar to how it hurt VY. The only difference was that the people around him handled it in a very shitty manner, allowing things to get to the media that should have never gotten to the media, that ended up getting blown wayyyy out of proportion, such as the handgun and suicide crap.

Carrying a handgun on you doesn't mean anything. The suicide stuff first off should NOT have ever gotten to the media, and whomever the guy was that he spoke with about those things, should get fired because that stuff should be strictly confidential. Although I'm willing to bet that it was completely overblown as well.

Almost any human when going through tough times will allow the thought of suicide to cross their minds. It doesn't mean they are actually seriously considering it. I'm willing to bet that many people who post on this board can relate to that, perhaps even yourself included, I dunno. It just crosses through naturally, and he probably told his psychiatrist or whoever that doctor was, that it simply crossed his mind a couple times.

Now whether he will or will not recover remains to be seen. But I just feel that the whole situation was massively overblown, and had KFC not ended up playing so efficiently as the team was winning, that VY would have gotten his job back in a heartbeat.

But when was the last time you heard a DE get booed. They boo the def as a whole but I can see how it affects the QB cause he is in the drivers seat.

[stretch]

Bush was looking spectacular in leading the Aints to the NFC Champ game

Bush didn't lead shit. He wasn't even the #1 RB on the team.

[IronMexican]

You see, I disagree with that. And I'm not saying all this because I'm a VY fan, but I would put money on it that EVERY player that gets booed for the first time, it has a massive effect on them mentally, many times similar to how it hurt VY. The only difference was that the people around him handled it in a very shitty manner, allowing things to get to the media that should have never gotten to the media, that ended up getting blown wayyyy out of proportion, such as the handgun and suicide crap.

Carrying a handgun on you doesn't mean anything. The suicide stuff first off should NOT have ever gotten to the media, and whomever the guy was that he spoke with about those things, should get fired because that stuff should be strictly confidential. Although I'm willing to bet that it was completely overblown as well.

Almost any human when going through tough times will allow the thought of suicide to cross their minds. It doesn't mean they are actually seriously considering it. I'm willing to bet that many people who post on this board can relate to that, perhaps even yourself included, I dunno. It just crosses through naturally, and he probably told his psychiatrist or whoever that doctor was, that it simply crossed his mind a couple times.

Now whether he will or will not recover remains to be seen. But I just feel that the whole situation was massively overblown, and had KFC not ended up playing so efficiently as the team was winning, that VY would have gotten his job back in a heartbeat.

I really don't want a QB with mental in-stability to lead my team. If I had a franchise, I would want my QB to start from the first game of the season, and if he can't handle the booes, then he isn't the QB I want to lead my team.

[ATRAIN]

I really don't want a QB with mental in-stability to lead my team. If I had a franchise, I would want my QB to start from the first game of the season, and if he can't handle the booes, then he isn't the QB I want to lead my team.

I agree, even though the Texans QBs have sucked Id rather have Matt and Sage than Vince. That is even with them combined leading the NFL with INT's. (or thats what they said on monda night fooball.

[stretch]

I agree, even though the Texans QBs have sucked Id rather have Matt and Sage than Vince. That is even with them combined leading the NFL with INT's. (or thats what they said on monda night fooball.

lol, straight up haterism

then again, i shouldn't expect any logical reasonings from you. you love MMA.

[IronMexican]

I don't hear any of these stories coming from Matt Ryan. And no rookie that I could ever remember came in with the pressure Matt came in with. He was coming in to replace a legend.

[ATRAIN]

lol, straight up haterism

then again, i shouldn't expect any logical reasonings from you. you love MMA.

LOL its a little bit of hate yes.....BUT I am against QB's that rely on their legs and cant pass. They never amount to jack!!

[ATRAIN]

lol, straight up haterism

then again, i shouldn't expect any logical reasonings from you. you love MMA.

Weak

[to21]

It's actually a lot harder to have early success as a DE than a RB. I can see that QB direction, though. Look at past running backs who came in and tore the league up: Adrian Peterson, Cadillac Williams, Ricky Williams, Ladanian Tomlinson. All those guys tore it up as rookies. And think of DE's that have done stuff early? Not too many to name. Maybe Demarcuss Ware and Julius Peppers, and that's about it. Most other ones take time. There are some top draft DE's who still haven't panned out like Gaines Adams.Brother, that's why they are called "skill positions". Don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of skill to do what Peppers, Freeney, Jared Allen, and Williams do. IMO, QB's & RB's have a tougher time being successfull early on.

Those guys you listed were great, but I'd say AP and LT were the only ones that were freaks coming out the gate.

[stretch]

Weak

yes, mma is weak and only for gay fags who enjoy watching sweaty shirtless men rolling around with each other intimately.

*cue in a plethora of posts about how some random mma fighter could beat the crap out of an nba or nfl player from LEONARD*

[ATRAIN]

Brother, that's why they are called "skill positions". Don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of skill to do what Peppers, Freeney, Jared Allen, and Williams do. IMO, QB's & RB's have a tougher time being successfull early on.

Those guys you listed were great, but I'd say AP and LT were the only ones that were freaks coming out the gate.

Portis was a beast as well. I dont think it takes that long but there are certain factors of course like running schemes, Oline, etc... but I think some guys are built to be RB's in the NFL and some aren't. Bush isnt.

[leemajors]

I agree, even though the Texans QBs have sucked Id rather have Matt and Sage than Vince. That is even with them combined leading the NFL with INT's. (or thats what they said on monda night fooball.

:rollin

[ATRAIN]

yes, mma is weak and only for gay fags who enjoy watching sweaty shirtless men rolling around with each other intimately.

*cue in a plethora of posts about how some random mma fighter could beat the crap out of an nba or nfl player from LEONARD*

LOL no I didn't say weak for your opinion on MMA, thats your opinion and your entitled to it. I said weak for trying to bring up MMA thinking it was a low blow to me when we are discussing Football (mainly Mario Williams) and others the Texans passed up for him.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

IMO, QB's & RB's have a tougher time being successfull early on.



RBs are usually the most successful/productive early on.

[MajorMike]

Bush didn't lead shit. He wasn't even the #1 RB on the team.

Bush had more yards from scrimmage, was the #2 RB (600 yards) #2 WR (750 yards) #1 return man (216 yards) and accounted for more yards than anyone else on that team other than the QB. The Aints were the first team to REALLY make the 2 RB system work (which it seems everyone is trying to go to now). He had 4 less rushing TDs than the starter did (10 to 6) and Bush actually started 8 of 16 games, anyway. Even so, he didn't score a TD until the 2nd half of the season. He got hot at the end and, yes, began to carry the team.

The uncertainty of how to scheme defensively helped Duece out immensely, which allowed him to gain over 1000 yards. Perhaps led is a string term, however, that very same team without Reggie Bush as the 1a back goes nowhere.

Aside from all that, Bush became the 'new face' and generated excitement and celebration among New Orleans Saints fans who had just suffered thru Katrina and didn't have a team or a stadium the year prior.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The Aints were the first team to REALLY make the 2 RB system work (which it seems everyone is trying to go to now).

No they weren't.

And they weren't even the most productive duo in that same year.

[stretch]

He got hot at the end and, yes, began to carry the team.

This is wrong on so many levels that I don't know where to begin.

[stretch]

Aside from all that, Bush became the 'new face' and generated excitement and celebration among New Orleans Saints fans who had just suffered thru Katrina and didn't have a team or a stadium the year prior.

That's great and all, but fact was, it was Drew Brees' that did the leading and winning for the team. It's a shame Bush got all the attention back then, when Brees' was the man. However, that has changed since, cuz now everyone knows it's Brees' team, as well as what a fraud Bush really is, (in comparison to all the hype he got as being the next Barry, better than LT, etc...) and that he is nothing more than a special teams and situational offensive player.

Bush is without question, the most overhyped player in NFL history.

[dickface]

Bush is without question, the most overhyped player in NFL history.

I don't know, people were blowing massive wads over how awesome Michael Vick was supposed to be. He was Steve Young, Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Tom Brady, Jim Brown, Michael Jordan, Joe Namath, Deion Sanders, and Jesus all wrapped into one man.

[johnsmith]

That's great and all, but fact was, it was Drew Brees' that did the leading and winning for the team. It's a shame Bush got all the attention back then, when Brees' was the man. However, that has changed since, cuz now everyone knows it's Brees' team, as well as what a fraud Bush really is, (in comparison to all the hype he got as being the next Barry, better than LT, etc...) and that he is nothing more than a special teams and situational offensive player.

Bush is without question, the most overhyped player in NFL history.

Most overhyped in a while anyway.

[dirk4mvp]

If Bush would've went to somewhere like Florida State, some people on this forum wouldn't show nearly as much hate for him.

[dickface]

If Bush would've went to somewhere like Florida State, some people on this forum wouldn't show nearly as much hate for him.

If Bush went to Florida State, he wouldn't have had Leinart, White, Jarrett, and Smith surrounding him and hiding all his flaws.

[IronMexican]

If Bush went to Florida State, he wouldn't have had Leinart, White, Jarrett, and Smith surrounding him and hiding all his flaws.

Leinart? Seriously.

[stretch]

I don't know, people were blowing massive wads over how awesome Michael Vick was supposed to be. He was Steve Young, Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, Tom Brady, Jim Brown, Michael Jordan, Joe Namath, Deion Sanders, and Jesus all wrapped into one man.

Vick actually led his team to the playoffs, and never lost in the first round either, beating a 12-4 Packers team at Lambeau, as well as stomping the shit out of a pretty solid Rams team and getting to the NFC Championship game.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I actually think Percy Harvin will be better than Bush in the pros.

I'd love the Lions to use a mid round pick on him.

[Extra Stout]

The Texans would be able to silence their critics over the Mario Williams pick if not for the fact that they nevertheless are perennial losers.

If Vince Young were the Titans' starting QB, they would be 7-5 or 8-4, and Vince's apologists would be explaining to us that despite being the lowest-rated QB in the NFL, the Titans' record proves he's a "winner," and his stats are only lousy because his receivers suck.

[Trainwreck2100]

Is Vince Young still alive, has anybody actually seen him in the last 9 weeks?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He played during one drive on Thanksgiving, brah.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If Vince Young were the Titans' starting QB, they would be 7-5 or 8-4
It's funny because you base this first part on absolutely nothing.

[monosylab1k]

If Vince Young were the Titans' starting QB, they would be 7-5 or 8-4

yeah because they've won alot of games due to the dominating passing performances of Kerry Fucking Collins. He's a regular goddamn Tom Brady, I tell ya.

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

[Trainwreck2100]

yeah because they've won alot of games due to the dominating passing performances of Kerry Fucking Collins. He's a regular goddamn Tom Brady, I tell ya.

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

Kerry Collins is just super bowl Trent Dilfer redux. He doesn't turn the ball over. VY is a fantastic athlete, but he can't throw for shit. It would have been awesome if Ten kept McNair his rookie year that way VY could have picked up something. Hopefully he used this time off to work on his accuracy.

[Extra Stout]

yeah because they've won alot of games due to the dominating passing performances of Kerry Fucking Collins. He's a regular goddamn Tom Brady, I tell ya.

:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes
Mediocre journeyman QB >>>> Vince Young.

[dirk4mvp]

It's funny because you base this first part on absolutely nothing.




being the lowest-rated QB in the NFL

[stretch]

lol, 1 game

[monosylab1k]

lol, 1 game

VY haters don't care.

So how about this - Vince Young is undefeated as a starter this season :downspin: He and Tom Brady are the only two QB's who have done that!

[ATRAIN]

VY haters don't care.

So how about this - Vince Young is undefeated as a starter this season :downspin: He and Tom Brady are the only two QB's who have done that!

He didnt even play the whole game and they didnt start winning till Collins bailed him out.

[monosylab1k]

He didnt even play the whole game and they didnt start winning till Collins bailed him out.

He played three quarters and they had a lead most of the game before Vince left.

And I don't care, Vince Young is still undefeated as a starter this season! WHOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ATRAIN]

He played three quarters and they had the lead when Vince left.

And I don't care, Vince Young is still undefeated as a starter this season! WHOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok well you can have that but he still sucks

[monosylab1k]

This season's starting QB rankings

1. Tom Brady (undefeated)
2. Vince Young (undefeated)
3. Kerry Collins (one loss - LOSER!)

[ATRAIN]

This season's starting QB rankings

1. Tom Brady (undefeated)
2. Vince Young (undefeated)
3. Kerry Collins (one loss - LOSER!)

LOL

[dirk4mvp]

Why can't some people just admit Young is not that good?

[ATRAIN]

Why can't some people just admit Young is not that good?

Not sure. Im a UT supporter(I would say fan but your not allowed to root for UT if you didnt go to school there or so some posters here say). They are the only college team I follow and cheer for and I said from day one when VY left that he was the best college QB I have ever seen, BUT he will not do that in the NFL. Sure enough looks like I was right.

[tlongII]

Vince Young sucks donkey wangs. Great college player, but he's absolute dogshit in the pros. He suffers from a severe lack of gray matter.

[IronMexican]

I'd still take VY over Matt Leinart, though. Neither will amount to shit, though.

[stretch]

Not sure. Im a UT supporter(I would say fan but your not allowed to root for UT if you didnt go to school there or so some posters here say). They are the only college team I follow and cheer for and I said from day one when VY left that he was the best college QB I have ever seen, BUT he will not do that in the NFL. Sure enough looks like I was right.

Lol, the year he came, they turned from having the 3rd pick in the draft, to nearly making the playoffs (8-8 record after a pitiful 0-5 start to the season, with KFC at the helm for most of that), then in his second year, he led them to the playoffs. Granted, overall their offense was not great and they won with more of a ball control style, and gritty defense, but there is no question that his leadership carried over to the rest of the team and gave others confidence, and a number of times he used his abilities to create momentum singlehandedly, and even won games, basically by himself, such as the 21-0 4th quarter comeback against the Giants, or the comebacks against the Bills, Texans, and Colts, and other impressive wins in which he shined very much. Then last year, he led them to a playoff birth in a very tough AFC conference, in the best division in football last year. Not bad for a QB who was projected to be a project, and not to truly succeed for at least a good 3 or 4 years. He has only played one game this year. I think he needs some more time before anyone can truly say he sucks, because while his stats may not have been great, his body of work which has gone beyond box-scores, has actually been quite solid. Let's see what he can do with some actual weapons, and a better, more fitting offensive scheme (lets not kid ourselves, Norm Chow's USC scheme simply did not fit VY). This is the first year that they actually have an offensive threat in Chris Johnson. Not to mention for his two years, the Titans were near, or at the top of the league in dropped passes, as they have had the worst recieving core in football for several years now.

The hate for VY has at least been equally as ridiculous as some peoples excessive love for him. Give him a chance at least.

[ATRAIN]

I'd still take VY over Matt Leinart, though. Neither will amount to shit, though.

What about Cutler?

[ATRAIN]

the guy is a beast. he and the texans have definitely been dishing out a big "fuck you" to all the people that trashed on them for that pick, as opposed to getting Reggie Bush.


Lol, the year he came, they turned from having the 3rd pick in the draft, to nearly making the playoffs (8-8 record after a pitiful 0-5 start to the season, with KFC at the helm for most of that), then in his second year, he led them to the playoffs. Granted, overall their offense was not great and they won with more of a ball control style, and gritty defense, but there is no question that his leadership carried over to the rest of the team and gave others confidence, and a number of times he used his abilities to create momentum singlehandedly, and even won games, basically by himself, such as the 21-0 4th quarter comeback against the Giants, or the comebacks against the Bills, Texans, and Colts, and other impressive wins in which he shined very much. Then last year, he led them to a playoff birth in a very tough AFC conference, in the best division in football last year. Not bad for a QB who was projected to be a project, and not to truly succeed for at least a good 3 or 4 years. He has only played one game this year. I think he needs some more time before anyone can truly say he sucks, because while his stats may not have been great, his body of work which has gone beyond box-scores, has actually been quite solid. Let's see what he can do with some actual weapons, and a better, more fitting offensive scheme (lets not kid ourselves, Norm Chow's USC scheme simply did not fit VY). This is the first year that they actually have an offensive threat in Chris Johnson. Not to mention for his two years, the Titans were near, or at the top of the league in dropped passes, as they have had the worst recieving core in football for several years now.

The hate for VY has at least been equally as ridiculous as some peoples excessive love for him. Give him a chance at least.

So you saying you would rather have him over Mario?

[IronMexican]

Cutler is already a top 10 QB in the NFL. I wanted Vince Young and Matt Leinart over him back in 2006. He is proving me wrong every day of the week. Imagine if the Raiders didn't waste that #6 pick on shitty Micheal Huff who is a back up now? Anyways, if the 2006 draft was re-done, Jay Cutler would be the #1 overall pick. Gotta give Skip Bayless some credit for calling this one back in 2006.

[ATRAIN]

Cutler is already a top 10 QB in the NFL. I wanted Vince Young and Matt Leinart over him back in 2006. He is proving me wrong every day of the week. Imagine if the Raiders didn't waste that #6 pick on shitty Micheal Huff who is a back up now? Anyways, if the 2006 draft was re-done, Jay Cutler would be the #1 overall pick. Gotta give Skip Bayless some credit for calling this one back in 2006.

You saying Cutler over Mario? I dont think the Texans wanted a QB that year. They had just given Carr a big paycheck to stay.........WHICH WAS A SHIT MOVE!!

[IronMexican]

You saying Cutler over Mario? I dont think the Texans wanted a QB that year. They had just given Carr a big paycheck to stay.........WHICH WAS A SHIT MOVE!!

Hindsight is 20/20, but they clearly wouldn't have done that if we went back to 2006 and re-did everything, Cutler would have been they're choice. Maybe we could have drafted Whitted instead of Huff:depressed

[ATRAIN]

Hindsight is 20/20, but they clearly wouldn't have done that if we went back to 2006 and re-did everything, Cutler would have been they're choice. Maybe we could have drafted Whitted instead of Huff:depressed

LOL man that sucks Huff had so much promise like his "other" Texas counterpart hahahah. I expected Huff to have a better career though but they are about equal at this point.

[IronMexican]

Yeah, I remember people calling him the next Ed Reed and a ball hawk. At first I didn't want him, but Mel Kiper and other idiot draft scouts tricked me into liking the move.

[ATRAIN]

Yeah, I remember people calling him the next Ed Reed and a ball hawk. At first I didn't want him, but Mel Kiper and other idiot draft scouts tricked me into liking the move.

I feel you man when I go back and look at some of the drafts we (Texans) have had and see some of those guys I cringe on what we could have had.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2120&type=team

[Dr. Gonzo]

Giving up picks to move up for Jason Babin was the move I hate most.

[monosylab1k]

name every starting quarterback who is undefeated this season. I've got Tom Brady and Vince Young.

[IronMexican]

Raiders had some bad moves. Too many to name, actually.

[ATRAIN]

Giving up picks to move up for Jason Babin was the move I hate most.

FUCK YEAH and he sucked. What happend to him did we end up cutting him?

[Dr. Gonzo]

FUCK YEAH and he sucked. What happend to him did we end up cutting him?

He got traded to Seattle for Michael Boulware.

[ATRAIN]

name every starting quarterback who is undefeated this season. I've got Tom Brady and Vince Young.

they should both make the pro bowl on that basis alone.

[ATRAIN]

He got traded to Seattle for Michael Boulware.

LOL shit for shit I guess.

[stretch]

So you saying you would rather have him over Mario?

Depends entirely on team needs. Coming straight out of the draft (entirely based on their college resume, etc... ), if I was in need of both, I probably would have went with VY because of the huge win in the Rose Bowl.

Looking back... I really can't argue with either one. Currently, Williams is doing more, but a unique gamechanging QB will ALWAYS be more special than a gamechanging player at any other position. Also because of the fact that this is only Young's third year... he needs a couple more years until he can have a truly fair assessment.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

God, I hope that doesn't happen with Tebow and the Lions.

[ATRAIN]

Depends entirely on team needs. Coming straight out of the draft (entirely based on their college resume, etc... ), if I was in need of both, I probably would have went with VY because of the huge win in the Rose Bowl.

Looking back... I really can't argue with either one. Currently, Williams is doing more, but a unique gamechanging QB will ALWAYS be more special than a gamechanging player at any other position. Also because of the fact that this is only Young's third year... he needs a couple more years until he can have a truly fair assessment.

So you would give a rookie qb.......the future of the franchise 5 years to prove his worth before pulling the plug? So since he has been declining instead of progressing do you really want to see what he will look like in 2 years. We have heard it all from his mental/suicidal issues. His teammates and center have called him a baby with his whining when he either get booed or when things do go his way. His center made a statement about his inability to learn the playbook cause its too complex. Then there is the surrounding "Talent" issue. Come on he is throwing to PROS. He threw to less talent at Texas. Sweed is a talent but he isnt even a starter for Pit so what does that tell you. How many excuses can you make for the guy?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

So you would give a rookie qb.......the future of the franchise 5 years to prove his worth before pulling the plug? So since he has been declining instead of progressing do you really want to see what he will look like in 2 years. We have heard it all from his mental/suicidal issues. His teammates and center have called him a baby with his whining when he either get booed or when things do go his way. His center made a statement about his inability to learn the playbook cause its too complex. Then there is the surrounding "Talent" issue. Come on he is throwing to PROS. He threw to less talent at Texas. Sweed is a talent but he isnt even a starter for Pit so what does that tell you. How many excuses can you make for the guy?

Considering the investment the Titans they have in the guy, yes.

Labeling most picks a boom/bust after three years is premature and ill-advised. Plus, he only played in one game this year.

[stretch]

So you would give a rookie qb.......the future of the franchise 5 years to prove his worth before pulling the plug? So since he has been declining instead of progressing do you really want to see what he will look like in 2 years. We have heard it all from his mental/suicidal issues. His teammates and center have called him a baby with his whining when he either get booed or when things do go his way. His center made a statement about his inability to learn the playbook cause its too complex. Then there is the surrounding "Talent" issue. Come on he is throwing to PROS. He threw to less talent at Texas. Sweed is a talent but he isnt even a starter for Pit so what does that tell you. How many excuses can you make for the guy?

Like I said, that was from the standpoint of coming straight out of the draft. Not considering what has happened since the both of them came into the league.

I personally feel he has plenty of potential and talent, and that he needs time to develop different things. Some QBs come into the league and are good right away, others take time and need to learn from the bench early on. See Steve Young.

[stretch]

And how has he really declined? I know he threw more picks and less TDs last year, but at the same time, he improved his completion % considerably (over 60%). And he only really played in one game this year.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's hard to tell because of his limited time in the regular season, but he looked awful in the preseason.

[ATRAIN]

And how has he really declined? I know he threw more picks and less TDs last year, but at the same time, he improved his completion % considerably (over 60%). And he only really played in one game this year.


It's hard to tell because of his limited time in the regular season, but he looked awful in the preseason.

His stats have never been good. Other say he gets the job done and what not. Thats hard to say because its been that def that has given them the W's not the off. Now with Collins has producing more with the same team makes you wonder. PLUS if they have sooo much invested in him and he is the future why isnt he playing right now. We all know he can, he played a few weeks back.

[ATRAIN]

Considering the investment the Titans they have in the guy, yes.

Labeling most picks a boom/bust after three years is premature and ill-advised. Plus, he only played in one game this year.

How many more years does he have on his contract?

[IronMexican]

God, I hope that doesn't happen with Tebow and the Lions.

Tebow might be coming out as a Tight End.

[ATRAIN]

Tebow might be coming out as a Tight End.

really? He is a big guy but I dont see him as a NFL TE.

[Dr. Gonzo]

really? He is a big guy but I dont see him as a NFL TE.

I'm sure the same was said about Owen Daniels.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Tebow might be coming out as a Tight End.

Yeah, and a lot of people said VY would be better suited at another position as well.

If he can duplicate or come close to VY's performance in the Rose, then Tebow may ride that wave all the way into the first round. As a QB. All it takes is one team to fall in love with him.

The funny thing is that one of the knocks against TT may very well be what's happening with VY. I mean, besides the fact that he has horrible footwork, an ungodly slow release, zero touch, etc.

[IronMexican]

VY was way harder to tackle, though. Tebow could be a nice project at QB. I could see a team using a 5th rounder or so.

[stretch]

His stats have never been good. Other say he gets the job done and what not. Thats hard to say because its been that def that has given them the W's not the off. Now with Collins has producing more with the same team makes you wonder. PLUS if they have sooo much invested in him and he is the future why isnt he playing right now. We all know he can, he played a few weeks back.

In order to make comebacks, you have to score points. In order to win games, you have to score points. To say that its always all because of their defense, is incredibly far from the truth.

Second, to say Collins has the same team is absurd as well. The team has a lot of young players. As they mature, so will the team. They have clearly matured quite a bit since last year (mainly on defense). Not to mention they added a playmaker on offense that they have not had in the time that Vince Young was at the helm (Chris Johnson). Add to it the new, more effective offensive system run by Mike Heimerdinger, as opposed to Norm Chow's crap. So your original statement is likewise ridiculous.

He isn't playing right now because the team is simply doing well right now with Collins, much like the Patriots were doing when Bledsoe went down and Tom Brady stepped in. Why change it, if it is working?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You'd agree that he has to show improvement by the end of next year for the Titans to hang on to him though, right?

[BSofA04]

VY came into a better situation than Mario. It's not secret they were winning in spit of VY, not because of him. That's what happens when you have a dominating defense. Even flaming Titan fans are quick to admit this. IMO, VY can't take his spot back because he can't throw the ball (see worst passer rating for a starting QB in 2007) and Reggie Bush is no better than 3rd. Round pick Steve Slaton. Well, actually Slaton can run between the tackles and can catch out of the backfield.

I suppose this conversation should never die :rolleyes Mario will be the first legit Pro-Bowler who is voted in as a starter and not a 3rd alternate. He led all fan voting for his position in the AFC. Really, there's no debate when only Mario is making contributions 3 years in a row.

[BSofA04]

You'd agree that he has to show improvement by the end of next year for the Titans to hang on to him though, right?

They won't let him go even if he tanks. Partly because of Jeff Fisher, partly because of the owner, but maniely because of his contract.

[BSofA04]

In order to make comebacks, you have to score points. In order to win games, you have to score points. To say that its always all because of their defense, is incredibly far from the truth.

Second, to say Collins has the same team is absurd as well. The team has a lot of young players. As they mature, so will the team. They have clearly matured quite a bit since last year (mainly on defense). Not to mention they added a playmaker on offense that they have not had in the time that Vince Young was at the helm (Chris Johnson). Add to it the new, more effective offensive system run by Mike Heimerdinger, as opposed to Norm Chow's crap. So your original statement is likewise ridiculous.

He isn't playing right now because the team is simply doing well right now with Collins, much like the Patriots were doing when Bledsoe went down and Tom Brady stepped in. Why change it, if it is working?
The Titans have a better running game but they actually have a QB who can throw now.